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Thread: Report: Roethlisberger's next contract could exceed $20M a year

          
   
   
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  1. #61
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCsteelersfan View Post
    I don't have to rely on Arod, and I don't see how you think my premise must rely on Arod. His last contract extension was absurd. But his original contract for 10 and $250 should be taken into account because he was at a point where he was not yet slated to break any records as he was far far away. Contracts since have struggled to follow the upward trend of that time. There was essentially a star contract bubble that burst and contracts have either declined, flatlined or have barely risen depending on the position and caliber of the star. The 2001 was not a "ruthian" contract. The Rangers just offered him a dumb contract, kind of like the Ravens and Baltimore. Except the Rangers were able to alleviate their mistake due to a lack of salary cap. Something NFL teams wouldn't be able to do. Arod was not even close to being Ruth in 2001. Some didn't even consider him the best at his position given what Garciapara and Jeter were doing.

    So you want to discount Arod for the sake of argument, fun. But why did Hamilton receive less than Pujols?

    There are plenty of other examples.

    Beltran received 7 and $119 in 2005 while Soriano received 8 and $136 in 2006. Werth received 7 and $136 three years later and Holliday received 7 and $120. Holliday and Werth should've been paid far more given Soriano's contract years earlier. None of these players signed "Ruthian" contracts.

    I originally stated that players contracts cannot infinitely increase. That each contract cannot simply top the previous. It hasn't happened in baseball without a cap and a far stronger player's union and it definitely won't happen in the NFL.
    A-Rod's 2001 contract was even a bigger statistical outlier than the 2008 one. He was younger, entering his prime, and was seen as the best player of his generation. There was never any doubt that he was better than Jeter and Garciaparra except with Yankees or Sox fans. No contract in that era was even CLOSE to A-Rod's.

    Let us use an analogy to show what you are doing. You have a class of 9th graders with an average make up except for a single child prodigy. They take a test and the average score is 86. In the next grade, the prodigy moves out and goes to a special school. The exact same kids could score higher but because the prodigy left town the average would go down to 84. It did not go down but the prodigy's high score skewed the grade upward and made it appear to go down. That is exactly what happens when you include A-Rod.

    You say that contracts have declined or flatlined but that is not true. Look at my list of top contracts. If they have "flatlined", there should be as many 2008-2009 contracts at the top as there are 2011-2013. If you take out the outlier (A-Rod), the top 6 are from 2011-2013, perfectly in line with star contracts increasing.

    The rest is just cherrypicking this contract against another contract instead of the big picture (which I supplied in my previous post). For instance, Josh Hamilton cost himself millions of dollars because of his off-field issues.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert

  2. #62
    Head Coach LatrobePA's Avatar
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    Report: Roethlisberger's next contract could exceed $20M a year

    Baseball in an NFL forum, that's gotta be the first!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarlsQtr View Post
    The rest is just cherrypicking this contract against another contract instead of the big picture (which I supplied in my previous post). For instance, Josh Hamilton cost himself millions of dollars because of his off-field issues.
    Whenever examples are presented to you, you simply make accusations of cherry picking.

    I presented you with four star outfielders that clearly showed either zero or a virtual insignificant rise over the course of 6 years. You can ignore that if you want and say it's cherry picking.

    And if you're going to start giving non-sports related reasons for why players received more or less, then that game can be played with every player. This guy got more because his agent is blank and that guy got less because his stats are from the steroid era, etc. etc.

  4. #64
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    Something is worth what somebody is willing to pay.

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    Let's look at things a little deeper...

    In 2009 Santana set a new bar for pitchers at 22.9 avg salary... followed shortly after by CC at 23.0 avg salary...

    after that lofty bar was set...by the best in the game at the time... 5 years later... here are the top paid pitchers in the game:
    1. Justin Verlander, $25,714,286 (2013-19)
    2. Felix Hernandez, $25,000,000 (2013-19)
    3. Zack Greinke, $24,500,000 (2013-18)
    4. CC Sabathia, $24,400,000 (2012-16) 2nd contract
    5. Cole Hamels, $24,000,000 (2013-18)
    6. Cliff Lee, $24,000,000 (2011-15)

    and that's not even touching the expected mega deal Kershaw is going to get...

    lets look at 1st basemen...in 2009 Mark Texeira set a BIG new mark for the position at 22.5 avg salary... since then
    1. Ryan Howard, $25,000,000 (2012-16)
    2. Albert Pujols, $24,000,000 (2012-21)
    3. Prince Fielder, $23,777,778 (2012-20)
    4. Joey Votto, $22,500,000 (2014-23)
    5. Adrian Gonzalez, $22,000,000 (2012-18)

    2nd basemen...
    Chase Utley was the new highest contract pace setter back in 2007 at 12.1 avg salary... since then... the top 5 contracts at the position:
    1. Ian Kinsler, $15,000,000 (2013-17)
    2. Dustin Pedroia, $13,750,000 (2014-21)
    3. Chase Utley, $13,500,000 (2014-15) 2nd contract
    4. Dan Uggla, $12,400,000 (2011-15)
    5. Brandon Phillips, $12,083,333 (2012-17)

    catcher... in 2008 Jorge set a big new mark (although Piazza had set a monstrous one nearly a decade earlier... since jorge the top 5...
    1. Joe Mauer, $23,000,000 (2011-18)
    2. Buster Posey, $18,555,555 (2013-21)
    3. Yadier Molina, $15,000,000 (2013-17)
    4. Mike Napoli, $13,000,000 (2013-15)
    5. Miguel Montero, $12,000,000 (2013-17)

    3rd... the arod contract is a monster outlier... so lets use the cabrerra contract from 2008 that set the bar at 19 million
    1. David Wright, $17,250,000 (2013-20)
    2. Ryan Zimmerman, $16,666,667 (2014-19)
    3. Evan Longoria, $16,666,667 (2017-22)
    4. Michael Young, $16,000,000 (2009-13)
    5. Adrian Beltre, $16,000,000 (2011-15)

    outfielders... a bunch of guys set the 18 mil bar in 2008,
    Andruw Jones, 18.1 mil
    Torii Hunter, 18.0 mil
    Ichiro Suzuki, 18.0 mil
    Vernon Wells, 18.0 mil

    since then the top 5 contracts for outfielders....
    1. Josh Hamilton, $25,000,000 (2013-17)
    2. Manny Ramirez, $22,500,000 (2009-10)
    3. Ryan Braun, $21,000,000 (2016-20)
    4. Carl Crawford, $20,285,714 (2011-17)
    5. Matt Kemp, $20,000,000 (2012-19)

    you're claim... that mlb star player contracts are trending down... is 100% completely nonsense. it's false. it's a lie that you probably thought was true because you didn't do your homework... and wanted something easy to point to in your silly nature of coming to the defense of anything perceived as a slight to Ben. it makes you look dumb constantly because you pull nonsense out of your ***... and then you get your *** handed to you, when people who know more than you read your drivel...

    so, now that we've had a lesson in what being ridiculously wrong looks like... maybe you'll recant... nah, we know you aren't capable
    Last edited by NeilPatrickBanana; 11-16-2013 at 10:27 PM.

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    well... looks like NYC could be right about Ben/Hometown discount... based on his comments today, "I'll do whatever it takes to stay"...

    and if the team did leak all this to get the circus started... i guess it worked. lol

    so... would he take 15-16 million per like Brady did? That would be awesome...

    considering the 11.6 in unallocated bonus money from the existing deal... let's rip up the remaining 2 years and do this...

    6 years / 96 million / 36 million guaranteed / 16 per avg

    Year 1 : 10 mil guaranteed salary / 5.6 unallocated bonus = 15.6 cap
    Year 2 : 10 mil guaranteed salary / 5.6 unallocated bonus = 15.6 cap
    Guaranteed Roster Bonus Paid : 16 million
    Year 3 : 12 mil salary / 4 bonus = 16 cap
    Year 4 : 12 mil salary / 4 bonus = 16 cap
    Year 5 : 16 mil salary / 4 bonus = 19 cap
    Year 6 : 20 mil salary / 4 bonus = 24 cap

    would be nice...

  8. #68
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  9. #69
    Starter SnakeEyes43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana View Post
    well... looks like NYC could be right about Ben/Hometown discount... based on his comments today, "I'll do whatever it takes to stay"...

    and if the team did leak all this to get the circus started... i guess it worked. lol

    so... would he take 15-16 million per like Brady did? That would be awesome...

    considering the 11.6 in unallocated bonus money from the existing deal... let's rip up the remaining 2 years and do this...

    6 years / 96 million / 36 million guaranteed / 16 per avg

    Year 1 : 10 mil guaranteed salary / 5.6 unallocated bonus = 15.6 cap
    Year 2 : 10 mil guaranteed salary / 5.6 unallocated bonus = 15.6 cap
    Guaranteed Roster Bonus Paid : 16 million
    Year 3 : 12 mil salary / 4 bonus = 16 cap
    Year 4 : 12 mil salary / 4 bonus = 16 cap
    Year 5 : 16 mil salary / 4 bonus = 19 cap
    Year 6 : 20 mil salary / 4 bonus = 24 cap

    would be nice...
    With all the crazy media reports, and Ben's current comments on the situation, this may be pretty realistic.
    Bleeding Black and Gold since 86'

  10. #70
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    Just in case some missed the comments you guys are referring to:

    Roethlisberger will do whatever is needed to help team from a cap standpoint

    If last week’s stories regarding the possibility of trading quarterback Ben Roethlisberger were leaked by the Steelers in order to get Roethlisberger to commit to taking less money to stay with the team, the strategy has worked.

    “Obviously, I would do whatever I needed to do,” Roethlisberger said Wednesday, via KDKA-TV. “But that’s something that can be discussed when the time comes. And that’s not really my thing. I play football. I have people that deal with that stuff, so I’ll do whatever it takes to stay here and to be a part of this team and to help this team out.”

    That’s the first time Roethlisberger has made such a commitment, despite previously commenting several times about his contract — and generally pleading ignorance on such matters.

    Even though Roethlisberger has uttered the magic words aimed at helping the Steelers reduce his $18.895 million cap number for 2014 without paying him $20 million per year, Roethlisberger is bracing for the next wave of reports from Ian Rapoport of NFL Network.

    “[Jerricho Cotchery] asked me today what’s the new rumor this week,” Roethlisberger said, “so we’re always excited to see what Ian’s gonna make up this week.”

    Eventually, reporters likely will be reporting the very real fact that Roethlisberger has a new contract that will keep him in Pittsburgh indefinitely into the future.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ap-standpoint/

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