Antonio Brown - True #1

[NeilPatrickBanana]

The ofensive line is not that bad. Brown is a #1 receiver. Your agenda is showing again. Tone it down.

my agenda is to make factual statements... correct

you have a different agenda, your agenda is to misconstrue everything possible as an insult to your boyfriend.

My statement : "Luck is more talented than Ben"
Your reaction : "Insult to my boyfriend!!!!"

My statement : "The Oline has improved every week, and is not playing like one of the worst in the league"
Your reaction : "Insult to my boyfriend!!!!"

My statement : "Antonio Brown is having a remarkable season, he is making his QB better - which is what #1 WRs do for ALL QBs"
Your reaction : "Insult to my boyfriend!!!!"

[NeilPatrickBanana]

Do you have a link to the article?

you need a PFF subscription to view their advanced stats and snap/game analysis

you can read a brief game summary for free though :
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...it-nyj-week-6/

[TarlsQtr]

There is still one factor with Brown that keeps him out of the conversation, IMO. TDs. Your number 1 guy should be a TD machine and he has yet to show he can do that.

That said, his lack of TD production may be as much about the rest of the offense as it is about him. He has definitely been better than I expected. The TDs may come as well.

[K Train]

He is painfully afraid of the endzone, its disturbing. 9 career TDs is sad, his 2 this season were playing catch up to the bears with tilman out of the game.

Ward was never a great #1 WR, but the guy had multiple years with 8-12 TDs. Brown doesnt get it done in the endzone, thats worrisome to me. Once they get the big bodied WR that creates mismatches, brown will explode...at least between the 20s. He has stepped up his game, he looks a little bigger and stronger out there but he seriously lacks when it comes to putting points on the board

[steelchamp204]

He is painfully afraid of the endzone, its disturbing. 9 career TDs is sad, his 2 this season were playing catch up to the bears with tilman out of the game.

Ward was never a great #1 WR, but the guy had multiple years with 8-12 TDs. Brown doesnt get it done in the endzone, thats worrisome to me. Once they get the big bodied WR that creates mismatches, brown will explode...at least between the 20s. He has stepped up his game, he looks a little bigger and stronger out there but he seriously lacks when it comes to putting points on the board

I'd like to see more Moye from inside the opponets 40. Just a different dynamic on the field.

[Real Deal Steel]

He is painfully afraid of the endzone, its disturbing. 9 career TDs is sad, his 2 this season were playing catch up to the bears with tilman out of the game.

Ward was never a great #1 WR, but the guy had multiple years with 8-12 TDs. Brown doesnt get it done in the endzone, thats worrisome to me. Once they get the big bodied WR that creates mismatches, brown will explode...at least between the 20s. He has stepped up his game, he looks a little bigger and stronger out there but he seriously lacks when it comes to putting points on the board

sad but true.

[questforSB7]

There is still one factor with Brown that keeps him out of the conversation, IMO. TDs. Your number 1 guy should be a TD machine and he has yet to show he can do that.

That said, his lack of TD production may be as much about the rest of the offense as it is about him. He has definitely been better than I expected. The TDs may come as well.

No, he IS Capable of scoring alot of TD's. It's just that once in the Redzone...Ben is just not good enough to get the ball properly to Brown....don't you know that ? I mean just ask Neil...he'll tell you that...and tell you that...and tell you that, ect, ect, ect,

[NeilPatrickBanana]

Red Zone efficiency has always been an issue for Ben.. I don't think that's really debatable. It's the primary reason Bruce Arians was fired. The offense didn't have consistently high point production, and that was primarily because they were always middle of the pack when it came to red zone production.

Im sure this is all the offensive lines fault, and the play calling, and the WRs... but when your numbers over the last 3 seasons compare more closely with Sanchez, Freeman, Fitzpatrick... instead of the big boys... well, let the excuse making begin...

Last 3 years, red zone statistics... minimum 100 attempts
Player-Att-Com-YD-TD-Int

Drew Brees 311-196-1,364-86-7

Tom Brady 271-164-1,217-80-4

Matt Ryan 269-154-1,048-66-4

Aaron Rodgers 239-153-1,060-75-2

Eli Manning 232-118-839-50-9

Philip Rivers 210-117-846-50-6

Matthew Stafford 209-1030789-50-7

Ryan Fitzpatrick 205-112-837-52-8

Josh Freeman 205-120-919-52-6

Mark Sanchez 199-97-718-39-8

Ben Roethlisberger 188-97-661-42-5 That's embarrassing....

Michael Vick 183-96-580-35-7

Sam Bradford 182-86-578-29-8

Carson Palmer 175-93-595-39-7

Peyton Manning 174-101-737-54-2* missed an entire season

Matt Schaub 172-93-639-41-4

Joe Flacco 171-76-662-38-4

Tony Romo 170-97-673-41-2

Jay Cutler 151-76-596-35-3

Matt Hasselbeck 141-78-556-27-2

Andy Dalton 141-78-564-35-0

Alex Smith 124-70-440-25-2

Cam Newton 123-50-393-21-5

Kyle Orton 109-50-337-20-1

Chad Henne 109-54-395-21-4

Christian Ponder 103-65-436-26-4

Matt Cassel 103-54-377-28-1

[K Train]

Red Zone efficiency has always been an issue for Ben.. I don't think that's really debatable. It's the primary reason Bruce Arians was fired. The offense didn't have consistently high point production, and that was primarily because they were always middle of the pack when it came to red zone production.

Im sure this is all the offensive lines fault, and the play calling, and the WRs... but when your numbers over the last 3 seasons compare more closely with Sanchez, Freeman, Fitzpatrick... instead of the big boys... well, let the excuse making begin...

Last 3 years, red zone statistics... minimum 100 attempts
Player-Att-Com-YD-TD-Int

Drew Brees 311-196-1,364-86-7

Tom Brady 271-164-1,217-80-4

Matt Ryan 269-154-1,048-66-4

Aaron Rodgers 239-153-1,060-75-2

Eli Manning 232-118-839-50-9

Philip Rivers 210-117-846-50-6

Matthew Stafford 209-1030789-50-7

Ryan Fitzpatrick 205-112-837-52-8

Josh Freeman 205-120-919-52-6

Mark Sanchez 199-97-718-39-8

Ben Roethlisberger 188-97-661-42-5 That's embarrassing....

Michael Vick 183-96-580-35-7

Sam Bradford 182-86-578-29-8

Carson Palmer 175-93-595-39-7

Peyton Manning 174-101-737-54-2* missed an entire season

Matt Schaub 172-93-639-41-4

Joe Flacco 171-76-662-38-4

Tony Romo 170-97-673-41-2

Jay Cutler 151-76-596-35-3

Matt Hasselbeck 141-78-556-27-2

Andy Dalton 141-78-564-35-0

Alex Smith 124-70-440-25-2

Cam Newton 123-50-393-21-5

Kyle Orton 109-50-337-20-1

Chad Henne 109-54-395-21-4

Christian Ponder 103-65-436-26-4

Matt Cassel 103-54-377-28-1

We are talking about brown though, you cant just push that off onto ben if you are going to say brown makes ben look good in the OP.

Brown falls into the Antwann randle el caliber of TD production, and wallace was never a great redzone threat either which massively drives down bens redzone efficiency. Arians never used the TE like haley used Heath so we wont count that, but the redzone was not even close to as big of a problem when ward and holmes were the top 2 guys with miller as that TE....those guys were very productive in the redzone, something brown/wallace/sanders have not been since ward and holmes left.

I get your point of the offense struggling in the redzone, but you shrugged off the idea of it being on brown at all which is just silly if you are going to call him a #1 WR and one of the truly elite route runners. Calvin and Fitz still scored redzone TDs with horrendously bad QBs throwing them the ball...that quality is just lacking form browns game

[NeilPatrickBanana]

We are talking about brown though, you cant just push that off onto ben if you are going to say brown makes ben look good in the OP.

Brown falls into the Antwann randle el caliber of TD production, and wallace was never a great redzone threat either which massively drives down bens redzone efficiency. Arians never used the TE like haley used Heath so we wont count that, but the redzone was not even close to as big of a problem when ward and holmes were the top 2 guys with miller as that TE....those guys were very productive in the redzone, something brown/wallace/sanders have not been since ward and holmes left.

I get your point of the offense struggling in the redzone, but you shrugged off the idea of it being on brown at all which is just silly if you are going to call him a #1 WR and one of the truly elite route runners. Calvin and Fitz still scored redzone TDs with horrendously bad QBs throwing them the ball...that quality is just lacking form browns game

Yes, I did shrug it off. I don't think Brown is the issue in the red zone.

Calvin and Fitz score red zone TDs in a way Brown never will. And I openly acknowledged that in the original post.

Ben doesn't have the same edge he used to have in the red zone. He doesn't sling it into tight windows like he used to... When Holmes was here he'd throw that hard slant in between the press coverage and the zone LB/S without fear. He wasn't always effective, but he would sling it.. he doesn't anymore, for whatever reason. I think the year of red zone turnovers and Arians being fired sapped him a bit of that confidence with which he used to operate (complete speculation of course).

With less space to operate, and less time in the pocket, the red zone is not conducive to Ben's skills. Where he is the antithesis of making quick reads and getting the ball out quick. While Brown is excellent at working in tight spaces. So, it's hard for me to see Brown as a problem when it comes to red zone production. Ben lies throwing to "open" receivers... rarely are players "open" in the red zone... especially when you get inside the 10. You have to be confident and throw into tight windows with confidence that your WR will make the play.... Ben needs to step it up in this area.

Our team red zone production was no better in 2008-2009 with Holmes/Ward. For the majority of Ben's career, our team red zone efficiency has been barely average to below average. Ben is the constant. He's never produced a high volume RZ TD threat.

My opinion on why there was a push to get a better running game going.... it had nothing to do with "returning to smashmouth football", but everything to do with maximizing Ben's ability to make them a more productive (points) offense. Ben is one of the best "in between the 20s"... but he's simply not an efficient drop back red zone passer... but with an effective running game, and thus an effective play action game (Ben is excellent in play action)... the Steelers become more efficient in the red zone.


I'm not doing a good job of dispelling the "Neil hates Ben" myth... lol