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Thread: Best Young QB in NFL?

          
   
   
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real Deal Steel View Post
    You have to factor in durability when you say "best young QB". And he won't last..not at the rate he's going. Now maybe your right in that they need to make him play like Rodgers but we don't know that right now and that's a hypothetical right now. Can't get around the "durability" issue dude.
    Hes had one injury, sure looking back he probably should have tried to play through it but i doubt that hinders him at all this season. Hopefully they expose him to less hits, they sold their souls to get him so they should think about protecting him. They lost some heart breakers last year in the first half of the season, but they were very much a contending team because of him.

    I remember saying how the colts and skins would be in the playoff hunt with their new QBs, a QB goes a long way in turning a basement dweller into a contender...thats what luck and RG3 both did

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    Kaepernick is not the more advanced passer, he is relied on far less as well. He took a superbowl contending team and made them a slightly better superbowl contending team. He had an oline with 4 players that ranked in the top 5 of their respective position and all 5 ranked in the top 10. Crabs/Davis/Moss/Manningham/Ginn/Walker > Part time Garcon/Hankerson/Morgan/Paulson/S.Moss. To say Kaep is more advanced and its not close is a stretch. Hes had some dazzling moments but hes also had his fair share of WTFs in his limited time. If anything they are neck and neck as a passer, but id take RG3 every single time, even though CK is on the much better team

    I dont think the triple option is what makes RG3 best, i think it worked pretty well because hes so athletic and can make a lot of plays with his feet but he could just as easily drop back and pass (obviously scramble occasionally) without being hit play after play after play on the triple option. They just exposed him to so many hits in that offense, he was incredibly tough to last as long as he did without getting hurt
    I HATE the "team around him" excuse. I judge talent, performance on it's merits.

    Kaepernick came out of school with one of the most horrid throwing motions the world had ever seen. I'm talking "Tebow" bad. But he had the head, the vision, the arm strength, the mobility, and the balls. And Harbough knew it. Harbough took all the raw material, and has been molding an absolute gem.

    RGIII throws an excellent deep ball, he has high quality arm strength, and he's relatively accurate. But he is not advanced in his ability to read a defense, have the proper recognition and decision making from within the pocket... will he get there? Probably, I think he has an excellent development curve IF Shannahan grows a brain.

    But the reality is... Kaepernick has 3 years of NFL tutelage by the NFL premier QB developer (yes, Harbough is a ****ing wizard)... and that **** shows... if you don't see it, you should get an eye exam.

    Today, Kaepernick is turning into that polished gem.

    Go watch the New England game, bring up the 3rd quarter td to Crabtree, over the zone, in between the coverage, before the contact... there is ONE QB in the last decade who had the arm strength, accuracy, and play recognition to make that throw (peyton in his prime).
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    Hes had one injury, sure looking back he probably should have tried to play through it but i doubt that hinders him at all this season. Hopefully they expose him to less hits, they sold their souls to get him so they should think about protecting him. They lost some heart breakers last year in the first half of the season, but they were very much a contending team because of him.

    I remember saying how the colts and skins would be in the playoff hunt with their new QBs, a QB goes a long way in turning a basement dweller into a contender...thats what luck and RG3 both did
    Um....he tore his ACL in college
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    I am a huge fan of both, but what are you basing this on? They are seriously so close. Id give Luck the nod in every category except pure arm strength, but thats why he went 1 and RG3 went 2, but its not like were comparing Peyton Manning to Vince Young here
    Luck is far more accurate to all areas of the field, making him a far more dangerous "pure" passer.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana View Post
    I HATE the "team around him" excuse. I judge talent, performance on it's merits.

    Kaepernick came out of school with one of the most horrid throwing motions the world had ever seen. I'm talking "Tebow" bad. But he had the head, the vision, the arm strength, the mobility, and the balls. And Harbough knew it. Harbough took all the raw material, and has been molding an absolute gem.

    RGIII throws an excellent deep ball, he has high quality arm strength, and he's relatively accurate. But he is not advanced in his ability to read a defense, have the proper recognition and decision making from within the pocket... will he get there? Probably, I think he has an excellent development curve IF Shannahan grows a brain.

    But the reality is... Kaepernick has 3 years of NFL tutelage by the NFL premier QB developer (yes, Harbough is a ****ing wizard)... and that **** shows... if you don't see it, you should get an eye exam.

    Today, Kaepernick is turning into that polished gem.

    Go watch the New England game, bring up the 3rd quarter td to Crabtree, over the zone, in between the coverage, before the contact... there is ONE QB in the last decade who had the arm strength, accuracy, and play recognition to make that throw (peyton in his prime).
    I think Jim is a great coach, but you can hate the team around him excuse...its valid though. And team around him includes jim harbaugh who made Alex Smith from painfully average into an actual serviceable quarterback, and really turned the team from a bottom dweller under Singletary to a SB favorite with a very similar roster.

    I know you arent using one game as your sample size, I watched that NE game very closely (I had Kaep vs Brady/Welker in FF lol) and i get it, he put on an absolute clinic, but tearing up NEs secondary isnt exactly something rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana View Post
    Um....he tore his ACL in college
    I do not think his durability should be in question just yet, all things considered you can suffer an injury early in your career and still play for a long time and shake the injury bug label. Coming out i saw him as a much better passer than vick, young, cam, ect....but it was obvious that he was going to run a bit more as a young QB, thats what young, athletic QBs do especially early in their career. That being said hes a great passer and i expect that to continue to progress, but the triple option needs to be phased out in order to not only keep him upright but to also develop his ability as a passer, and imo hes going to be a great overall QB, not just a running one. You even said IF shanahan grows a brain, yes thats very neccesary. I do not think the triple option is what makes RG3 most effective though, if anything i think it hinders him in return for a few end around first downs and 30 yard runs down the sideline


    Quote Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana View Post
    Luck is far more accurate to all areas of the field, making him a far more dangerous "pure" passer.
    I think hes more accurate and more cerebral as a passer, but i dont think RG3 is quite as far behind as you make him seem. I would have given Luck rookie of the year, but i would have had RG3 finish 2nd

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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    I think Jim is a great coach, but you can hate the team around him excuse...its valid though. And team around him includes jim harbaugh who made Alex Smith from painfully average into an actual serviceable quarterback, and really turned the team from a bottom dweller under Singletary to a SB favorite with a very similar roster.
    Your conflating team results with individual talent.

    I am talking about Kaepernick's TALENT. His pocket awareness, play recognition, arm strenght, accuracy, running skills, etc. His combination of Peyton style pocket strength and smarts combined with his Newton style athleticism and running strength.... NONE of this has anything to do with the sick *** roster he has around him. Im not talking about his win/loss record, or his super bowl run... Im talking about individual talent.

    That's why I HATE the roster argument you've brought up... it's a straw man argument.

    I know you arent using one game as your sample size, I watched that NE game very closely (I had Kaep vs Brady/Welker in FF lol) and i get it, he put on an absolute clinic, but tearing up NEs secondary isnt exactly something rare.
    Judge the throws.... judge the talent.... the player... i used one example because it stands out in my mind. THAT throw, is when I got on the bandwagon. I studied Kaepernick with a fine comb from that point on.

    before that New England game... I thought Harbough was insane... the gall and balls it took to make that move (obviously he knew what he had). I criticized the **** out of that move, and about a month later I was gleefully eating crow. I was wrong.

    I do not think his durability should be in question just yet, all things considered you can suffer an injury early in your career and still play for a long time and shake the injury bug label.
    Name one QB who tore his ACL twice before his 2nd NFL season?

    Coming out i saw him as a much better passer than vick, young, cam, ect....but it was obvious that he was going to run a bit more as a young QB, thats what young, athletic QBs do especially early in their career. That being said hes a great passer and i expect that to continue to progress, but the triple option needs to be phased out in order to not only keep him upright but to also develop his ability as a passer, and imo hes going to be a great overall QB, not just a running one.
    I agree (although I think Cam and RGIII are closer as passers coming out, than RGIII and Luck.... and Cam has the advantage in athleticism because he's built to take the beating, RGIII is not.... it's too bad Cam seems to have **** between the ears, because talent wise, he's a machine.)

    I think hes more accurate and more cerebral as a passer, but i dont think RG3 is quite as far behind as you make him seem. I would have given Luck rookie of the year, but i would have had RG3 finish 2nd
    I haven't seen RGIII produce the pocket consistency, hopefully his development trends in that direction... for his own sake.
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  7. #37
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    I'll take Russell Wilson over all of them.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    Hes had one injury
    He's had one major injury..in one season. Doesn't look promising does it?

    But your right...a stud QB can make a basement team a contender and that is what Luck,Wilson and RG3 did.
    The Steeler way...is the only way.

  9. #39
    Assistant Coach Real Deal Steel's Avatar
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    I too don't think RG3 is that far behind Luck as far as the cerebral aspect of the QB position is concerned. But the problem is that when plan A and plan B don't work for Luck, he's still looking to pass the ball.

    When plan A & plan B don't work for RG3, he runs. But is RG3 a smart guy? Hell yeah. But that running aspects retards your growth in the passing game because of the gift of being able to run when things get tight.
    The Steeler way...is the only way.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JShare86 View Post
    I'll take Russell Wilson over all of them.
    Madness. He really came on strong at the end of the year, but he is not better than ALL OF THEM. Christ
    Last edited by K Train; 05-20-2013 at 01:50 PM.

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