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Thread: 2 talented QB retreads are out there

          
   
   
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  1. #51
    Head Coach LatrobePA's Avatar
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    Please for the love of all things good, cut the two old duds we have on the roster and draft a prospect...

  2. #52
    Chuck's Place ChucktownSteeler's Avatar
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    I will pass on all three. We have Ben, Gadowski, and Charlie. We are still 3 years or so from drafting Ben's replacement.

  3. #53
    Veteran connecticutsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice cream glove View Post
    Both Vince Young and JaMarcus Russell are attempting comebacks. Both are way physically talented. I would take a flier on one of them, to be honest. Little to lose. Both may have learned a lesson and grown up a bit. Both were immature and always had everything come easy to them. Russell has dropped 27 lbs. But 27 lbs from what weight I do not know.

    Young was on First Take this AM. He truly seemed much more mature. Even playing as a non-working, immature brat, he still has a pretty good W-L record.

    Both those guys are as physically talented as any QB out there. If they grew up and are ready to take the game seriously, they could be as good as there is. I would like to add players WHO HAVE A CHANCE TO DEVELOP INTO SOMETHING SPECIAL instead of just signing guys with no upside. I am sick of all their bum signings who have no upside.
    Russell and young had there chance i'm sorry but any douche that signs a huge contract then doesn't even try to play hard doesn't desereve a second chance russell is 27 pounds lighter which makes him 307 lbs forget these losers

  4. #54
    2nd String tburg68's Avatar
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    Gradkowski is a much better option than both Young and Russell. They suck and always will. Not sure why anyone would take a flyer on garbage.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by connecticutsteel View Post
    Russell and young had there chance i'm sorry but any douche that signs a huge contract then doesn't even try to play hard doesn't desereve a second chance russell is 27 pounds lighter which makes him 307 lbs forget these losers
    I don't disagree. I was just throwing it out there for discussion. But, wait a minute. Didn't you know. Russell had to get his "purple drank" on, so it wasn't really his fault.

    http://deadspin.com/5579938/jamarcus...r-purple-drank

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarlsQtr View Post
    You assume that I am speaking only of his character issues dealing with the ladies. The rumors of him being an excessive partier, arrogant, and lazy towards film study came out his rookie season.
    As a rookie, he was already winning every game he started until the play offs. He was already established as a difference-maker, play maker, franchise QB year 1. Or weren't you around for that? Yea, so he partied and was kind of lazy; he was WINNING. And that's mostly anyone cares about. If you are winning games, every team will over look almost anything.

  7. #57
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice cream glove View Post
    As a rookie, he was already winning every game he started until the play offs. He was already established as a difference-maker, play maker, franchise QB year 1. Or weren't you around for that? Yea, so he partied and was kind of lazy; he was WINNING. And that's mostly anyone cares about. If you are winning games, every team will over look almost anything.
    But your original thesis was not whether a team will overlook character concerns (e.g. laziness) if they win. Your thesis was that great QB's have a great work ethic. Ben, at least at first, did not and still won. You have a tendency to change your argument whenever evidence to the contrary raises its ugly head.

    And Ben was hardly a "franchise QB" year 1. You are engaging in revisionist history. Ben's first season was much more Trent Dilfer in 2000 than RGIII or Andrew Luck 2012. In fact, most of his praise from around the league was as a "game manager". He was protected by a strong running game and defense. Or weren't you around for that?
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarlsQtr View Post
    But your original thesis was not whether a team will overlook character concerns (e.g. laziness) if they win. Your thesis was that great QB's have a great work ethic. Ben, at least at first, did not and still won. You have a tendency to change your argument whenever evidence to the contrary raises its ugly head.

    And Ben was hardly a "franchise QB" year 1. You are engaging in revisionist history. Ben's first season was much more Trent Dilfer in 2000 than RGIII or Andrew Luck 2012. In fact, most of his praise from around the league was as a "game manager". He was protected by a strong running game and defense. Or weren't you around for that?
    You are now dealing in straw man arguments: change what it is I asserted so you can then strike down what I never said in the first place. You are mixing up things that I never said were mutually exclusive but pretending I did so. Fact is, QBs are mostly judged by their win-loss record. FACT. Is it an all-encompassing stat, fully indicative at all times? Nope, never said that. You bring up Trent Dilfer. He won a ring, playing with one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL. The rest of his career? 58-55 career record. And that is a very accurate reflection of the level of QB he was.

    All that being said, a QB's won-loss record is a very substantial indication for the quality of a QB. Is it, in itself, 100% of an indicator of a QB's quality of play? Never said it was. Stop making straw man arguments. You seem to only be able to think on a single plane and dimension.

  9. #59
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    I would love us to mold Tyler Bray into a solid QB of the future. He has so much arm talent and balls to play QB. I say get him in the fourth round

  10. #60
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice cream glove View Post
    You are now dealing in straw man arguments: change what it is I asserted so you can then strike down what I never said in the first place. You are mixing up things that I never said were mutually exclusive but pretending I did so. Fact is, QBs are mostly judged by their win-loss record. FACT. Is it an all-encompassing stat, fully indicative at all times? Nope, never said that. You bring up Trent Dilfer. He won a ring, playing with one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL. The rest of his career? 58-55 career record. And that is a very accurate reflection of the level of QB he was.

    All that being said, a QB's won-loss record is a very substantial indication for the quality of a QB. Is it, in itself, 100% of an indicator of a QB's quality of play? Never said it was. Stop making straw man arguments. You seem to only be able to think on a single plane and dimension.
    LOL You are a trip. You wrongly accuse me of a straw man and then launch into one. Please show me (please quote) where I claimed that you were claiming win/loss record was the ONLY indicator. You will never come forth with such a quote because there is no such quote. In fact, I quite clearly and fairly represented your position. I said (and there are other instances instances too):

    LOL You keep avoiding the obvious. YOU said that wins/losses were the "most telling" in your earlier post trying to concentrate on a stat you felt supported your position to sign VY. In your later post, you stumble around trying to talk about ANYTHING BUT Tebow's wins/losses because it does not support your position (we can even ignore the fact that Tebow's career QB rating is higher than VY's).

    A textbook case of cognitive dissonance.
    I even quote you stating "most telling." Your entire straw man diatribe is a straw man itself, not to mention a red herring.

    The truth of the matter is this.

    1. You made a logical fallacy as an argument by stating that "NFL experts" see wins/losses as the "most telling" QB stat. You did this in reference to Vince Young and without a shred of evidence that NFL experts actually think that (the informal name for this is the "Everyone Knows" logical fallacy).

    2. I brought up Tebow, who has a good win/loss record but no one correctly wants.

    3. In order to defend your position on Young, you were forced to go into a long diatribe against Tebow using EVERYTHING BUT the supposedly "most telling" stat. Suddenly, you treat it (and QB rating, where Tebow also beats Young) as not even worth mentioning.

    4. Unfortunately, you were not bright enough to see that I was not even arguing VY and Tebow, I was arguing the idiotic and unsubstantiated assertion that "NFL experts" see wins/losses as the "most telling" stat. It is practically self-refuting. If true, VY would not need to find a job as a backup with the Steelers.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert

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