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Thread: How to rank QBs (an honest discussion)

          
   
   
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcitysfinestXL View Post
    I find it pretty hard to argue with you list when you detailed how you came up with it before hand. I dont typically rate qb's after the top 10 because i just dont see the point, but ill add an "On the cusp" list of 4-5 guys.

    1. Aaron Rogers
    2. Tom Brady
    3. Peyton Manning
    4. Drew Brees
    5. Ben Roethlisberger
    6. Eli Manning
    7. Matt Ryan
    8. Tony Romo
    9. Phillip Rivers
    10. Joe Flacco

    On the Cusp: Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Robert Griffin III

    While I believe you based your argument on the stance of "What have you done for me lately" I tend to lean towards what have you done over your career. Thats why you wont see RG3, Colin Kapernick, Russel Wilson etc. in my top 10, though its damn hard to leave Andrew Luck out because his ceiling is SOOOO damn high IMHO!

    Joe Flacco is now atleast in the "elite" discussion. His numbers get better and better every season, his playoff number went from dismal to excellent in his time in the league. And he now has a title under his belt. He can make any throw on the field with EASE and when given time is pretty damn good with ball security and accuracy.
    Phillip Rivers: i detest this man, but up until 2 years ago he was as ELITE as elite could be with out a SB. He's had 2 **** seasons on a **** team ran by a **** FO, so i dont think you can blame his short comings of late entrely on him.
    Tony Romo is a numbers machine. He's easy to hate due to the fact he is a Cowboy and easy to discredit because of the Cowboys furtunes in the latter part of seasons over his career. But Romo can play at a high level and does more often then not. He's one of the more elusive QBs in the league and can still make plays all day as a pocket passer.
    Matt Ryan is going to be the next new QB with a SB ring. He has an awesome WR corps, 2 good RB's and he's in a system that was built for him. His number get better and better as does his team.
    Eli Manning has 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVPS, that lands you on my list. Though i think his runs as a SB QB are over, he lands on my list by have spans over his career of being utterly unstoppable on playoff runs.
    Ben Roethlisberger, IMO is a victim of a Fantasy football driven world. He's never gonna lead the league in QB stats other than maybe Wins and QB rating... but that all I want in a Franchise QB. With 2 SB's notched and 2 left in him (IMO) as a 31 year old he's gonn be a top 5 guy until the day he is replaced as the Steelers starter... the day he retires!
    How Drew Brees is No.10 by your standards is a complete enigma to me. A natural leader, Superbowl winning QB who broke the record that "would never be broken", so they said. Stud QB in every sense of the word.
    Peyton Manning will go down as the Best QB to ever play the game. That reign will be short lived though because of guys like Rogers and Bree being younger and putting up monster numbers and Brady will be in the running for that title as well.
    Tom Brady: If i ever have a kid who wants to be a QB im gonna set him down and play him tapes of Tom Brady! Pocket presence, poise, heart, leadership and a F'n cannon attached to his right shoulder. I could give 2 shits about Spygate when it comes to Tom Brady as an individual- his ablities as a QB are undeniable!
    Aaron Rogers: Jesus in cleats! Ok i've already reserved that title for Adrian Peterson but he's the next best thing in this modern era. There isnt anything this kid cant do, including WIN!
    Thanks for the reply. I'll address your critiques when I have a little more time. But I think throughout our differences there is a commonality in how to view QBs both through the subjective analysis of talent and the robust assessment of objective performance/career

    I do try to bring a balance on the subjective side between the "what have you done for me lately" as well as the "overall career". Just as I try to analyze the talent along with the potential.


    All four areas are important in my book. Some people, like Crash, want to limit the scope... but only when it favors their belief. He'll value the post season for Ben... but make excuses of other sorts for Eli.

    I prefer the holistic view

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    His post season career doesn't agree with you.

    Sorry.
    Talent and Performance are not entirely mutual
    (Dan Marino)

  3. #23
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    Talent and Performance are not entirely mutual
    (Dan Marino)
    So Jeff George is in your top 5 all time also?

    Not too many in the history of the league throw the ball better than he did.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    So Jeff George is in your top 5 all time also?

    Not too many in the history of the league throw the ball better than he did.
    Again, it's not "one or the other". Jeff George was an incredible talent, and failed miserably... Peyton Manning is an incredible talent who has reached the highest successes (MVP, Super Bowl, Regular Season).

    Your Jeff George example is confusing, it suggests that you are retarded... and can't comprehend the difference between absolute failure and the highest successes.


    You haven't demonstrated the ability to combine the subjective data and the objective analysis into a consistent assessment. You view the subjective through your heavy bias. Ben's 2 super bowls vs Eli's 2 super bowls. You point to Ben's post season record, that's fine, he deserves credit for that... But Eli has a better post season winning percentage... and ALSO has 2 rings. So how is he not ahead of Ben in your rankings. What objective measurement allows you to rank Ben ahead of Eli? Nothing you've posted suggests you take skill/talent into account. So, without judging Ben/Eli on their skill, how can you put Ben ahead of Eli based on their careers? Especially, when you weight a post season so heavily, and Eli trumps Ben (slightly) in any objective view of post season.

    You magnify Peyton's failures, and make excuses for Ben's failures. No consistency.

    And you almost never talk about skill... you view only the career. But you view it through an immense bias towards the guys you like or dislike.

    You've been called out on your lack of providing your own ranking...it's obvious that you know it will be picked apart, and it will highlight your bias...

    You have no consistency... you have a biased opinion that you nit pick stats to support without a comprehensive or holistic viewpoint
    Last edited by NeilPatrickBanana; 02-11-2013 at 05:46 PM.

  5. #25
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    I rank them by Lombardi's

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChucktownSteeler View Post
    I rank them by Lombardi's
    So Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers are equals?
    and Brad Johnson is better than Dan Marino?

    Ranking by Lombardi's (alone)is an incredibly flawed way of looking at QBs. Lombardis should definitely be part of the equation... but not the entire equation. Ranking by Lombardi's is something a 5 year old is capable of doing... not really interesting or demonstrative of anything

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    To be realistic about it after five years of starting (in the same year mind you, 2008) Flacco has proven to be more clutch than Rodgers.

    But Eli has a better post season winning percentage...
    Did you not blame Ben for missing playoffs compared to Peyton?

    Then how can you defend Eli over Ben who's missed them 3 of the last 4 years? Eli has also led the NFL in picks twice.

    Typical Ben hating douchebag who hides behind back handed compliments to him.

    Be a man, and not a vag, and admit you don't like him.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    To be realistic about it after five years of starting (in the same year mind you, 2008) Flacco has proven to be more clutch than Rodgers.
    but you have Rodgers#1 on the list you are afraid to present... right?

    Did you not blame Ben for missing playoffs compared to Peyton?
    yes... if you put together a list, with categories and weights you would see how things lay out. this is why you are afraid to post a list. because the truth is.. .you haven't put much effort into thinking about it.

    Then how can you defend Eli over Ben who's missed them 3 of the last 4 years? Eli has also led the NFL in picks twice.
    again... the total picture

    Talent/Ability - I have Eli rated slightly higher than Ben (9.1 to 8.9) - since you've never demonstrated any penchant for critiquing skills, i'll be surprised if you have anything to say.

    2012 Performance - I have Ben rated higher (7.5 to 7.0)

    Career - i know you have an excuse for this but Eli has 2 rings, better winning %, and TWO MVPSs (9.5 to 9.0)

    Typical Ben hating douchebag who hides behind back handed compliments to him.

    Be a man, and not a vag, and admit you don't like him.
    this is a common theme im noticing... if you aren't making the typical homer argument (ben doesnt have this, ben doesnt have that...) it somehow makes you a Ben hater.

    Ben is the best player the steelers have had in my entire knowledgeable football years... I don't have to put him on a super pedestal for that to be true. And I don't have to deny his failures and short comings for me to be a huge fan and appreciative that we have him

  9. #29
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    again... the total picture

    Talent/Ability - I have Eli rated slightly higher than Ben (9.1 to 8.9)
    So you rank a player who's led the NFL in picks twice, missed the playoffs three out of the last four years, and who in two Super Bowls scored 17 and 19 points on offense, ahead of Ben?

    That makes sense.

  10. #30
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    How to rank QBs (an honest discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    So you rank a player who's led the NFL in picks twice, missed the playoffs three out of the last four years, and who in two Super Bowls scored 17 and 19 points on offense, ahead of Ben?

    That makes sense.
    Talent has nothing to do with any of those things. The things you mentioned are covered under "career" and are heavily outweighed by 2 rings and 2 MVPS

    Please feel free to continue demonstrating your bias

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