Ben, the blessing and the curse

**NeilPatrickBanana** · 12-24-2012, 02:54 PM

First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes shit happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

**steelchamp204** · 12-24-2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes shit happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some shit for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

**SuperSteelers** · 12-25-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by steelchamp204

I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some shit for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

This^

**NYCsteelersfan** · 12-27-2012, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by steelchamp204

I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some shit for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

**Big T** · 12-27-2012, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by NYCsteelersfan

Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

**NeilPatrickBanana** · 12-28-2012, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Big T

Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

It's amazing to me how anything said about Ben that isn't entirely positive and full of praise immediately implodes the readers ability to comprehend what was written

I said :
1. Ben is elite
2. Ben is the reason the Steelers are contenders at the beginning of every season

I also said:
1. Ben isn't the same type of franchise QB as Peyton, Brady, etc who relies on the traditional skills (passing abilities, Football IQ)
2. Ben's biggest strengths are also a contributing factor to this team's lack of consistency over the years

PS Ben would be a terrible fit in Green Bay's system. Do people actually think Ben would be good in a quick read, quick release west coast system??? Jesus Christ people :shakehead:

GB, New England, and New Orleans systems are about as different as any 3 systems in the NFL. Just assuming that Ben would be awesome in those systems is just plain dumb.

**Crash** · 12-25-2012, 12:31 AM

If Peyton is elite, so is Ben.

Ben's won more, Ben's played better in the post season.

**steelchamp204** · 12-25-2012, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Crash

If Peyton is elite, so is Ben.

Ben's won more, Ben's played better in the post season.

I have a feeling Peyton is going to get his 2nd ring this year. He actually has a good defense behind him. Just saying.

**Crash** · 12-25-2012, 02:17 AM

I have a feeling Peyton is going to get his 2nd ring this year. He actually has a good defense behind him. Just saying.

Peyton Manning had the #2 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2005.

He sucked against the Steelers for three quarters, lost.

Peyton Manning had the #1 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2007.

He sucked against the Chargers in the playoffs, lost.

Peyton Manning's lone SB ring he threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks in 4 games, carried by his run game and defense.

All he has on Ben? Is a 6 year head start to his career, and in those 6 years, he won exactly 2 playoff games.

**steelchamp204** · 12-25-2012, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Crash

Peyton Manning had the #2 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2005.

He sucked against the Steelers for three quarters, lost.

Peyton Manning had the #1 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2007.

He sucked against the Chargers in the playoffs, lost.

Peyton Manning's lone SB ring he threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks in 4 games, carried by his run game and defense.

All he has on Ben? Is a 6 year head start to his career, and in those 6 years, he won exactly 2 playoff games.

Ben was never carried by a good defense throughout his career? Look at Bens first sb? The only thing that bailed him out in the 2nd SB was him and holmes which I do give Ben credit. Then when we played the Pack, our reality came true. With Ben having a mediocre performance again in the sb. 2 tds and 2 picks. You can say what you want about Peyton, atleast he is in the playoffs every year giving his team a chance.

Ben had the number 1 defense this season and couldnt even get into the playoffs, remember that. He had a chance to cash in when Charlie won that game in Bmore and never cashed in on it.