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Thread: Apparently Andrew Luck is already better than Ben Roethlisberger

          
   
   
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  1. #41
    SA's #1 Pirates Fan Tetris Champion Black@Gold Forever32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana View Post
    you see advanced stats as flawed because they don't conform to your beliefs

    i see advanced stats as performance facts
    My problem with the QBR has nothing to do with my beliefs......I pointed out the flaw of having Alex Smith ranked higher then Big Ben.....I think most would agree Smith is nowhere near the QB that Ben is or ever will be....If you like the QBR then great that is your opinion but I just can't take it serious....Its more in depth then the NFLs QB rating which I also said is a joke......You seem to be a stat guy and that is cool but stats don't tell the whole story about a player....I like stats to but I don't use them to make my final judgments on a player.....

  2. #42
    BlitzburghRockCity's Avatar
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    Very well said.

    Luck is the new kid on the block and everybody thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Everyone fell in love with Cam Newton last year and now look at him. It's not uncommon for a rookie QB to come in and have a good season, even great depending on what stats you look at most. Stats can reflect just about anything you want really and that's the truth.

    Luck has a ton of interceptions but he's also making a lot of plays; there's a reason he was drafted as high as he was. He'll come back down to earth at some point, they always do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black@Gold Forever32 View Post
    I agree with you about Luck being more talented.....Andrew Luck has everything you want in a QB prospect....I watched Luck play while he was at Stanford and I agree the sky is the limit for Luck.....But Luck's NFL career is still in the early stages that we all really don't know how good or great Luck will be......So I look at Luck at having the potential to be one of the best.....

    But ESPN's QBR rating is as big of joke as the NFL QB rating........Luck has 18 INT's this year and Ben only has 5 so I have major problems with them being so close in QBR...I understand there is more than just INT's when factoring in QBR......But I think its a flaw stat as much as the NFL's QR rating......

    Looking at their rookie years its hard to compare since you're right Luck is asked to thrown a lot more then Ben.........But that was Cowher ball....Build a lead and then just run the football to kill the clock......But you mentioned Luck taking over a team that just won 2 games the year before and you're right.....But Ben also came in the 2nd game of the 04 season to replace an injured Maddox and the Steelers only won 6 games in 2003.........Of course the 2004 Steelers were a much better team then 2012 Colts but I doubt the 2004 Steelers make the play-offs with Maddox.......So Ben was also a key player in that team reaching the AFC title game that season and only losing 1 game in the regular season......

    But back to the stats......Ben still threw 17 TD's in just 295 pass attempts so his TD percentage was 5.8 his rookie year.....Luck has thrown 18 TD's while having 537 pass attempts so far...Luck's TD percentage; is 3.4..........So if Ben did throw the ball as much as Luck his rookie Ben might have thrown 30 TD's.......Ben and Luck's INT percentage; were close in their rookie years....Ben's was 3.7 and Luck's 3.4........Luck does also have 5 rushing TD's and Ben did only have 1 his rookie year.....

    Sorry for the rambling but I do think people forget how good Ben was his rookie year and how much of a factor he was on the 2004 and 2005 Steelers.......They knock Ben for not having the pass attempts but I think that is stupid....It proved to be a winning formula those seasons but at the sametime if Ben had the chance to throw more he would have had the stats like most of these rookie QB's are putting up lately.......Ben also led a team to the Super Bowl and won his 2nd year......His play in three play-off games were huge in the Steelers reaching Super Bowl XL......Will be interesting to see if Luck can match that....He has the talent.....But will he?

  3. #43
    Starter LevonKirkland99's Avatar
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    Luck is the real deal though, especially in few years when all the elite QBs retire....why hate on Luck?
    "HAIL TO PITT"

  4. #44
    Draft Pick The Lakelander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBR96A View Post
    At least idiot non-Steeler fans seem to think so despite his 18 TD passes and 18 INTs, considering he has 15,545 more votes for the Pro Bowl than Roethlisberger does.
    Look through Ben's stats history ... 18 TD passes is the norm for Ben ... Andrew Luck? ... too soon to say (given that he plays in BA's system; which begs the question ... was it BA or Ben who failed in the Red Zone?) ... but he's off to a strong start ...
    Last edited by The Lakelander; 12-16-2012 at 02:33 AM.
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    SA's #1 Pirates Fan Tetris Champion Black@Gold Forever32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lakelander View Post
    Look through Ben's stats history ... 18 TD passes is the norm for Ben ... Andrew Luck? ... too soon to say (given that he plays in BA's system; which begs the question ... was it BA or Ben who failed in the Red Zone?) ... but he's off to a strong start ...
    Stats are very misleading........Ben didn't even throw 300 passes in 2004 or 2005.....But had 17 in both seasons.......you have to look at his TD percentage from those seasons...........But since you mentioned BA lets just focus on Ben's TD passes with BA as OC....

    07-32
    08-17
    09-26
    10-17
    11-21

    113 in five seasons under BA.....So 17 wasn't the norm under BA but 23 was.........Plus I remember at least 5 dropped TD passes in that 09 season....Drops from Sweed, Mendenhall, Ward....Ben only played 12 games in 2010 thanks to the suspension or those totals would have been even higher.......
    Last edited by Black@Gold Forever32; 12-16-2012 at 05:46 AM.

  6. #46
    Draft Pick The Lakelander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black@Gold Forever32 View Post
    .........Plus I remember at least 5 dropped TD passes in that 09 season....Drops from Sweed, Washington, Mendenhall, Ward....Ben only played 12 games in 2010 thanks to the suspension or those totals would have been even higher.......
    I happen very much to agree ... sometimes I make my case in very inconspicuous ways ... you did well to take the bait and run with what I was getting at ...
    It's hip to T-Squared ...

  7. #47
    Draft Pick The Lakelander's Avatar
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    Sorry ... at work ... couldn't finish my thought ...

    Ben was better in the Red Zone than his numbers showed under Arians ... and I think Arians took far too much of that heat ...

    Luck will be compared, in the end, more with the QB's from his class ... RGIII, Tannehill, Foles, Wilson, etc ... But he'll likely eclipse anything statistically that Ben ever accomplishes ... He's already being used far more aggressively in the pass game ...

    Ben is Ben and Ben will be measured by his own standard ... we all know that!
    Last edited by The Lakelander; 12-16-2012 at 05:41 AM.
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    SA's #1 Pirates Fan Tetris Champion Black@Gold Forever32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lakelander View Post
    Sorry ... at work ... couldn't finish my thought ...

    Ben was better in the Red Zone than his numbers showed under Arians ... and I think Arians took far too much of that heat ...

    Luck will be compared, in the end, more with the QB's from his class ... RGIII, Tannehill, Foles, Wilson, etc ... But he'll likely eclipse anything statistically that Ben ever accomplishes ... He's already being used far more aggressively in the pass game ...

    Ben is Ben and Ben will be measured by his own standard ... we all know that!
    Overall I liked BA, I thought it was time for a change since BA was the whipping boy in Pittsburgh and really it was in BA's best interest to move on......I wasn't really taking the bait but just adding to what you were saying......

  9. #49
    Chuck's Place ChucktownSteeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black@Gold Forever32 View Post
    Overall I liked BA, I thought it was time for a change since BA was the whipping boy in Pittsburgh and really it was in BA's best interest to move on......I wasn't really taking the bait but just adding to what you were saying......
    It took me a while to understand BA as well and I agree he was the favorite whipping boy in Pittsburgh. Could you imagine it right now if he were still there? Last season there were many fumbles and drops in the red-zone - Mendy, Heath, Mewelde Moore, etc. that BA unfairly was criticized for.

    The down side of him leaving is you have a great "one trick pony" (LOL) WR in Wallace that just doesn't fit this dink-dank-dunk offense. Wait till he joins BA and LUCK next season on the turf field in Indy. Luck TD's total will definitely rise!

  10. #50
    Starter LevonKirkland99's Avatar
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    Ooooooow, Wallace going to Indy next year? Ship him the #$@# out as soon as possible.
    "HAIL TO PITT"

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