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Thread: Steelers Still Optimistic They'll Sign WR Mike Wallace Before Training Camp

          
   
   
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  1. #31
    Starter steelcitysfinestXL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JensK View Post
    I have never disregarded Wallace as being a bad WR, nor claimed that he drops a whole lot of balls or anything like that. I will, however, say that the decline of production the second part of the season last year is worrisome. He simply became too much of a threat for the opposing teams, so they had a safety cover him and suddenly he is a no-show. Now you can blame a whole lot of different aspects to this, but neither of them will hold ANY kind of leverage when they are negotiating.

    You can cut Wallace all the slack you want, but the facts remain the same: The man has very little leverage when it comes to the negotiations. He is simply not doing anything to help himself right now. He is not getting any reps, so he will be behind with the new playbook. He might not be in as great a shape as the other players since he has not been on the facility -. we see this quite often... Players believe they can stay in football shape on their own, they hold out and pull a hammy or the like. He also knows that Steelers have very little room to work with this year and most likely next year as well. Steelers knows this as well. We also know from previous examples that it is very unlikely that Steelers is going to make a 3rd year WR with 1.5 years worth of really solid production, the highest paid player on the roster. And for all we know, that is the kind of money he has asked for.

    Now, I do believe that he should be resigned. He is clearly worth more than 2.5mil. He is just not doing himself a favor by holding out. The only reasonable argument you could make is because he is afraid of injuries. That is a legit concern obviously, however I still believe that there are so many examples of players getting hurt off the field anyway. As I mentioned, the longer he decides to hold out, the bigger are the risk of injuring himself when he actually returns.
    So what your saying is:

    -He has the same chance of injuring himself working out on his own, so he should sign his tender
    -He knows the Steelers are up against the cap and cant afford to pay him, so he should sign his tender
    -He finished the season 11th in yards, but because his "second half slump" he only scored as many td's as Brown did all season, he should sign his tender.

    Im not trying to knock you or anybody here's opinion, but this is all kinda crazy to me!

  2. #32
    K Train's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger DANJ View Post
    I don't understand why everyone thinks Wallace drops a lot of balls. He had 6 drops last season. Brown had 7.

    according to this link:
    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...ping-the-ball/
    Wallace only dropped 4 catchable balls. Only 12 receivers had better drop rates and only 9 had 50+ catchable balls thrown their way.

    Here are some more stats I like:
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr
    Wallace is 5th on the list and Brown is 20th.

    I love Brown but I can't understand the perception that he is better than Wallace. I also can't understand the hatred towards him for trying to get paid and make sure he doesn't get hurt before hand. It's smart business...plain and simple. If he doesn't show for training camp one way or another, then I will start to wonder what he is doing. Compared to other contracts, he deserves 8-9 million a year. Also, he is not under contract so he is not officially a holdout.
    i love rational input, its great and refreshing

  3. #33
    Starter steelcitysfinestXL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    i love rational input, its great and refreshing
    It's a rarity around here!

  4. #34
    Veteran connecticutsteel's Avatar
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    EVERYONE USES words like arguement i'm just telling you what my opinion is If the stats say wallace doesn't drop many than I stand corrected but it seems maybe he drops the big ones maybe that 's why some feel like he drops more than he does cause he dropped that huge pass in the denver game i don't know i still like Brown better .I'M sorry i have an opinion different than some but then again there are only 4 or 5 people who know what they are talking about right lol
    Last edited by connecticutsteel; 07-17-2012 at 11:24 AM.

  5. #35
    JensK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcitysfinestXL View Post
    So what your saying is:

    -He has the same chance of injuring himself working out on his own, so he should sign his tender
    -He knows the Steelers are up against the cap and cant afford to pay him, so he should sign his tender
    -He finished the season 11th in yards, but because his "second half slump" he only scored as many td's as Brown did all season, he should sign his tender.

    Im not trying to knock you or anybody here's opinion, but this is all kinda crazy to me!
    Actually I don't mention anywhere that he should sign his tender. I even say that I think he is worth more than what the tender would give him. By quite a bit as well. What I am not saying is that a holdout, even if he semantically speaking is not holding out yet, is not getting him anywhere right now, as the situation is what it is and there is not much he can do to change it due to circumstances he has no control over right now.

    I'm not saying that Wallace should be traded or anything along those lines. The only thing I'm saying is that I don't agree with the attempts to justify him not showing up and playing. If anything, showing some interest in the team should encourage the team to work even harder on a new deal, although that might not be the actual case.

    Also, I don't think I ever mentioned Brown, nor do I understand the comparison between them. Wallace is comparing himself with the likes of Fitzgerald, and I cannot find any proof that he is on the same level as him, thus do I not think he should be paid that kind of money.

    Those who don't agree with Wallace holding out is generally met with accusations of being "crazy" and whatnot. Some of the arguments certainly are crazy. It is not rational to trade him. It is not rational to say that he is a worse WR than Brown. It is not rational to say that he should retire. Neither of those things make any sense. It is, however, not really rational to totally disregard the fact that Wallace has had 3 years in the league, certainly solid but nothing more. Yes, he has piled up a lot of yards, but you cannot ignore that right now he is a one-trick pony. I hate the notion, but he is not at all a good route-runner, even though it has improved. He is not a physical guy, so he will never be the kind of player who will go up against 2-3 defenders and come down with it. He is a decent blocker, but nothing more. He is ridiculously fast and you cannot teach that, but teams started to gameplan against it and his production went down. you can blame it on whatever you like, but the production went down nevertheless. Now, we have NO idea what actually caused it, but it is a knock against him and you can be assured that its a knock that teams will use against him. You want Fitzgerald money? Alright, show us you can play like him. He has not to this date. Does he have to? Arguably not - he can probably easily live of being fast, but he has to prove that he can overcome double-coverage on a more consistent basis.

    Again, I don't think he is a bad WR by any means. But I don't see him as the same kind of talent as a handful of the WRs in the league and I don't think he should be paid as such.

    edit: Yes, I had to write a novel about it, sorry.

    edit edit: I should say that I do realize that he actually never said he wanted Fitzgerald money. Its a rumor and nothing more. however, for the sake of argument lets play around with that. After all, neither of the "Wallace" camps know anything about the numbers and we're not really qualified to say anything about it.
    However much you think you know about football, rest assured that Skip Bayless knows more!

  6. #36
    Starter steelcitysfinestXL's Avatar
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    I did lump some other posts in with my reply to your posts. Sorry if i mis-quoted you on saying "he should sign his tendor". I assumed that was your solution. My comparrison to Brown was more geared towards showing those who say "Brown is better". You said: "his decline in the second half of the year is worriesome" In that period of time he had as many TD's as Antonio Brown did all season.

    Quote Originally Posted by JensK View Post
    edit edit: I should say that I do realize that he actually never said he wanted Fitzgerald money. Its a rumor and nothing more. however, for the sake of argument lets play around with that. After all, neither of the "Wallace" camps know anything about the numbers and we're not really qualified to say anything about it.
    ^This^ I agree with. People took what "someone in the 49er org." said about Wallaces demands and ran with it. By the numbers Wallace matches up or beats the stats of Fitz/Megatron/Andre Johnson when comparing first 3 seasons. Its been stated here many times. I will agree that those players are more important to their respective teams, but thats mearly because talent wise they arent as competetive as the Steelers year in and year out. So even if he isnt on the level of those 3 and maybe the current run by Wes Welker, then he is the next best thing. That puts him in the neighborhood of $8-12 mil/year. I think a Vincent Jackson type deal of 5 years/$55 mil (would have to be backloaded) is reasonable to stay in Pittsburgh.

  7. #37
    SA's #1 Pirates Fan Tetris Champion Black@Gold Forever32's Avatar
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    Mike Wallace please just sign so the madness can end.....lol People freaking out that Wallace missed OTA's and maybe training camp is silly........If its November and Wallace is holding out then people can bitch....lol This whole Wallace not signing his tender is so over blown.........

  8. #38
    Draft Pick Danger DANJ's Avatar
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    Who knows if Wallace or his agent ever said they want Fitzgerald money. Maybe they told the 49ers that and maybe it was for real...or maybe they just didn't want the 49ers to go after him. I also read a rumor that what they meant by Fitzgerald money was what Fitzgerald got in his 1st extension deal which was 4 years/$40 Mil. I would have to think that both Wallace and his agent know damn well they won't get $15 Mil. a year.

    Like I said, I'm not worried about what Wallace is doing unless he doesn't show up for training camp. All the stuff he has missed so far isn't that big of a deal even with the new offense. Missing training camp or a big part of it would absolutely set him back and could cause unnecessary injuries.

    As for Wallace's drop in production during the second half of the season...I'm not quick to say it was a lack of effort or talent by Wallace to beat double coverage. I saw quite a bit of double coverage early in the season as well. But, what I feel like I was seeing was Ben not being able to throw a good deep ball in the second half of the season, especially once he got injured. It seemed like there were a lot of underthrown balls. Not only that, but you take what the defense gives you. If they are going to leave Brown open or 1-on-1, then that's where you throw the ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcitysfinestXL View Post
    I think a Vincent Jackson type deal of 5 years/$55 mil (would have to be backloaded) is reasonable to stay in Pittsburgh.
    I agree. I can't see Wallace agreeing to anything less than 5 years/$40 Mil.
    Last edited by Danger DANJ; 07-17-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger DANJ View Post
    Who knows if Wallace or his agent ever said they want Fitzgerald money. Maybe they told the 49ers that and maybe it was for real...or maybe they just didn't want the 49ers to go after him. I also read a rumor that what they meant by Fitzgerald money was what Fitzgerald got in his 1st extension deal which was 4 years/$40 Mil. I would have to think that both Wallace and his agent know damn well they won't get $15 Mil. a year.

    Like I said, I'm not worried about what Wallace is doing unless he doesn't show up for training camp. All the stuff he has missed so far isn't that big of a deal even with the new offense. Missing training camp or a big part of it would absolutely set him back and could cause unnecessary injuries.

    As for Wallace's drop in production during the second half of the season...I'm not quick to say it was a lack of effort or talent by Wallace to beat double coverage. I saw quite a bit of double coverage early in the season as well. But, what I feel like I was seeing was Ben not being able to throw a good deep ball in the second half of the season, especially once he got injured. It seemed like there were a lot of underthrown balls. Not only that, but you take what the defense gives you. If they are going to leave Brown open or 1-on-1, then that's where you throw the ball.
    Great Post! The part in bold is a very good point. Wallace made some of his biggest plays against safety help over the top. The long ball in ARI comes to mind. From my memory, that was about the only one where a team tried to play him 1-on-1 and he went for 80 yards!
    Last edited by steelcitysfinestXL; 07-17-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  10. #40
    Veteran connecticutsteel's Avatar
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    Let's look at the numbers i put my foot in my mouth on this one .
    here are the stats for the first 3 years of some of the league's elite compared to Wallace
    RICE 3575 YDS 40 TD'S
    MOSS 4163 YDS 43 TD'S
    MEGATRON 3071 YDS 21 TD'S
    FITZGERALD 3135 YDS 24 TD'S
    A.JOHNSON 2806 YDS 12 TD'S
    BURESS 2606 YDS 13 TD'S (I DON'T CONSIDER PLAX ELITE I ADDED HIM FOR THE HECK OF IT)
    Wallace 3206 yds 24 TD'S
    Mike Wallace outperformed everyone on this list except rice and moss

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