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Thread: Troy Smith released

          
   
   
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  1. #21
    Starter Raleigh Steel's Avatar
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    troy smith released??? well there goes the season!!!! the steelers are on the clock. lol

    agree with some of you on our backups...we need one sooner than later. maybe someone will cast someone off this year and the steelers can pick them up...here's hoping
    "Today, I'm officially retiring a Pittsburgh Steeler. And as much as I will miss football, my teammates, coaches and everything about the game, I don't want to play it in any other uniform. The black and gold runs deep in me, and I will remain a Steeler for life."--Hines Ward

  2. #22
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Our backup QBs are better than some team's starters over the last couple of seasons (e.g. Gabbert, B., Beck, J., Jackson, T.).

    Their only downfall is age. Teams would prefer a backup to be a young quarterback with an upside. Batch and Lefty are old and will never be much more than they are now. The Steelers do not need a developing QB, so they are (correctly) happy with them.

    But on the field, they produce much better than the backups on most teams. They know the offense, manage the game, and do not turn the ball over. The problem is that some, in spite of their comments to the contrary, want Pro Bowlers throughout the roster including special teams and backups. I hate to break the news to you, but RGIII or Cam are not going to come here and be our backup QB. We may as well get used to the fact that mediocre is VERY GOOD when speaking of backup QBs.

    Any sane person would feel much more confident going into a playoff game with Ben sitting because of injury with Batch and Lefty as backups than Gradkowski/Robinson, Taylor/Painter, McCoy/Wallace who make up the other divisional backups. Sometimes we expect too much.

  3. #23
    Assistant Coach Real Deal Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarlsQtr View Post
    Most teams would KILL to have backup QBs as skilled and accomplished as Batch and Leftwich. Of course Dixon gets credit for one of those wins, but how can you criticize 3-1 against the Falcons, Bucs, Titans, and Ravens when Ben was suspended in 2010? They run the offense, do not turn the ball over too much, and let the D put them in good situations, about as much as you should expect from backup QBs.

    The only negative I see is that with both on the roster you are not developing any young talent, which probably is not necessary at Ben's age.
    Our defense won those games. Defense and field position. Batch did little to nothing in those games.
    The Steeler way...is the only way.

  4. #24
    Assistant Coach Real Deal Steel's Avatar
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    TarlsQtr,

    You need to go back and look at those games. Your talking about who won the games and I'm talking about exactly what one specific position (QB) did in those games. We won those games IN SPITE OF Batch's performance.

    You don't have to go any further then the season opener against the Falcons in 2010 to see that we just physically dominated them and wore them down.

    Again, I'm just looking for more functionality from the back-up QB position.
    The Steeler way...is the only way.

  5. #25
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Real Deal Steel,

    And what teams have a backup that is going to routinely come in and throw 300 yards for a victory? Any?

    The only teams that may is one that has an older starting QB and they are trying to develop a replacement (think Favre/Rodgers). The Steelers have a 31 year old franchise QB, so they are not going to be developing a young stud who will just leave after his first contract for a team with a poor QB situation. So, you keep competent veterans that know the offense, can manage a game, and do not commit many turnovers. The Steelers have two of those.

    The formula for any team with their backup in is to shorten the game and let the defense (especially with our defense) put the offense in good situations. They did exactly what was asked of them and won 3 of 4. They did not win "in spite of" Batch's performance, they won BECAUSE he executed Tomlin's gameplan. Look at the dregs playing backup for our divisional rivals I supplied above. I dare say we have tons more 'functionality' than any of them and most other NFL teams.

    They are both competent. More so than the backups on almost any team and even more competent than some teams have starting. I cannot understand how we could expect any more.

  6. #26
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    PS I ask anyone to name the teams (and players) that have two better backups than Batch/Lefty. I am not talking about "potential" to be great but two who have PROVEN themselves competent to step into a playoff game in an emergency situation. Most teams do not have even one.

  7. #27
    K Train's Avatar
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    when have batch and leftwich played in the playoffs?

    id say theres many better backups even if they arent "proven starters", which batch never really has been and leftwich is long removed from. i think mccoy is a great backup to have for the browns, jason campbell is a great backup for the bears, rex grossman is a great backup for the skins and they have cousins, matt leinart hasnt proven much but he was playing lights out before he got injured in houston when he was filling in for schaub. flynn/jackson/wilson is a dismal set of starters but all great backups even if the backups are backing up a poor quality starter. hell even sanchez/tebow is a good 1-2

    point is batch is painfully average and getting real old, hes a coach at this point who might be able to squeak out a win with a stellar team effort and leftwich has been a ghost for the last few years....just because they are decently big names doesnt mean ****, id take hoyer and mallet in NE over our guys.

  8. #28
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Did I say they played in the playoffs (although I believe Lefty did)? What I did say is that they could slide in easily and run the offense.

    The same is not true of a lot of backups in the league. Some of you examples have me scratching my head. I love Tebow, but he is currently a gimmick. He will be used primarily as a runner and the thought that he would be better THROWING to Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller than Batch or Lefty is laughable. He was moderately successful because Denver completely changed their offense to suit him. That would not happen with him in Pittsburgh as Ben's backup. McCoy is young, still thinks he is a starter (meaning he is not going to come to Pittsburgh to backup), and has never had a QB rating over 74. Campbell makes $4.5 million (Batch and Lefty under a million each). Where we going to get that cap space? In the two seasons that Grossman played close to full time, he had 20 INTs each and a QB rating of about 73. Not sure why that indicates a significant enough upgrade to get rid of two competent backups that know and fit in with the team. At best, it seems like a lateral move.

    Hoyer and Mallet? Seriously? One has 43 pass attempts in his career and the other 0. You would rather have THEM in a playoff game against the Ravens than one, despite his age, who is smart enough for even you to call a "coach"? You do know what happens to inexperienced QBs that play against a defense like that, correct? And Lefty was not a "ghost". He has been injured the last couple of years. With a good offensive line (which I believe we finally have), he would do a very nice job (better than Batch, IMO).

    As usual, we are engaging in "the grass is always greener" fallacy. We always want what we do not have and you probably will not realize it until some kid like Mallet is throwing 4 INTs and getting killed by the Ravens D.

  9. #29
    K Train's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarlsQtr View Post
    Did I say they played in the playoffs (although I believe Lefty did)? What I did say is that they could slide in easily and run the offense.

    The same is not true of a lot of backups in the league. Some of you examples have me scratching my head. I love Tebow, but he is currently a gimmick. He will be used primarily as a runner and the thought that he would be better THROWING to Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller than Batch or Lefty is laughable. He was moderately successful because Denver completely changed their offense to suit him. That would not happen with him in Pittsburgh as Ben's backup. McCoy is young, still thinks he is a starter (meaning he is not going to come to Pittsburgh to backup), and has never had a QB rating over 74. Campbell makes $4.5 million (Batch and Lefty under a million each). Where we going to get that cap space? In the two seasons that Grossman played close to full time, he had 20 INTs each and a QB rating of about 73. Not sure why that indicates a significant enough upgrade to get rid of two competent backups that know and fit in with the team. At best, it seems like a lateral move.

    Hoyer and Mallet? Seriously? One has 43 pass attempts in his career and the other 0. You would rather have THEM in a playoff game against the Ravens than one, despite his age, who is smart enough for even you to call a "coach"? You do know what happens to inexperienced QBs that play against a defense like that, correct? And Lefty was not a "ghost". He has been injured the last couple of years. With a good offensive line (which I believe we finally have), he would do a very nice job (better than Batch, IMO).

    As usual, we are engaging in "the grass is always greener" fallacy. We always want what we do not have and you probably will not realize it until some kid like Mallet is throwing 4 INTs and getting killed by the Ravens D.
    they are about as servicable as a backup gets, i get that...but they are both fragile and one is old and one HAS been a ghost in that hes spent his time on IR or inactive. Leftwich has played brilliantly in spot duty but that was a while ago.

    what im saying is in the near future they need to move on and look to groom a young guy that could be a starter...maybe a more passer type than dixon this time. im not saying charlie batch and leftwich cant do it this year because they can, but time isnt on their side....brady having mallet and moyer is a much better long term solution, one will likely get traded for a second round pick and one will be bradys successor, thats more what i was referring to. Hell cassel was traded for a high pick to be a teams starter and he sucks, just another example of a top 5 backup QB that ends up being a bottom 10 starting QB...hopefully we can find that kind of player sometime soon.

    i hate tebow, but as a backup you cant argue with his ability to go out and play. that hurt to type actually.

    i just like how the falcons draft shaub behind vick and get a #2 for him, the eagles do the same with AJ feely and Kolb, and even mcnabb, the pats did with cassel...ect. That was probably their intentions with dixon, it just didnt work out with him

  10. #30
    Veteran TarlsQtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    they are about as servicable as a backup gets, i get that...but they are both fragile and one is old and one HAS been a ghost in that hes spent his time on IR or inactive. Leftwich has played brilliantly in spot duty but that was a while ago.

    what im saying is in the near future they need to move on and look to groom a young guy that could be a starter...maybe a more passer type than dixon this time. im not saying charlie batch and leftwich cant do it this year because they can, but time isnt on their side....brady having mallet and moyer is a much better long term solution, one will likely get traded for a second round pick and one will be bradys successor, thats more what i was referring to. Hell cassel was traded for a high pick to be a teams starter and he sucks, just another example of a top 5 backup QB that ends up being a bottom 10 starting QB...hopefully we can find that kind of player sometime soon.

    i hate tebow, but as a backup you cant argue with his ability to go out and play. that hurt to type actually.

    i just like how the falcons draft shaub behind vick and get a #2 for him, the eagles do the same with AJ feely and Kolb, and even mcnabb, the pats did with cassel...ect. That was probably their intentions with dixon, it just didnt work out with him
    I actually agree with most of what you typed here. My biggest fear is that Batch retires and Lefty retires/signs somewhere else. That leaves us with no backup QB with a bit of experience on this team. I would desire that Batch retires at the end of the season and we get a younger guy to take his place and learn while Lefty stays on for a couple of years as the #2. That would give the newbie some time to get experience and learn the offense before ever having to rely on him to win a playoff game.

    I think where we have parted ways in previous posts is our outlook. Some of the posts above (not necessarily by you) seem to be calling for a housecleaning of QBs, Ben excepted. This would prove to be disastrous if Ben became injured for a few games. I believe the Steelers have a chance at the SB almost every year and we have to play for now. Although the Patriot backups, for example, may end up as far better QBs than our backups SOMEDAY, they are not ready to come in, learn a new scheme, and play up to the level of Batch or Lefty THIS YEAR in a game that counts.

    I think that has been the point of all my posts. For this season, we have the best we are going to get, IMO.

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