Ben, the blessing and the curse

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Originally Posted by NYCsteelersfan

Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

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Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

What's insane is he doesn't get the respect he deserves from his HOME fan base.

Other than the usual suspects (Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincy) Ben is respected more OUTSIDE of Pittsburgh than he is in it.

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Originally Posted by NYCsteelersfan

Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

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There's some good "nugs of dumb" in here. I love your posts!

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Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes shit happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

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I'm not a coach or an X's and O's guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ben's career has seen, what I believe to be, two limited OC's. Ben has skills which are unequaled by any other QB in the league............and the Steelers don't use them.

Ben has a strong arm, and he has an ability to keep his focus down field during duress, he also has the best escapability in the history of the game. So what do the Steelers do to take advantage of those skills.........not much!

If we had an offensive game plan which created mis-direction and mis-timing, Ben's skills would make him nearly unstoppable. As it is, we don't even balance a run-pass scheme, we get a run game going and go right back to the pass. We don't use screens and draws well to keep the defense honest. And we struggle with an O-line that has a new set of issues every year, there is no "pocket" and this leads to Ben scrambling rather than stepping up in to the pocket like it is supposed to work.

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Originally Posted by Stone

I'm not a coach or an X's and O's guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ben's career has seen, what I believe to be, two limited OC's. Ben has skills which are unequaled by any other QB in the league............and the Steelers don't use them.

Ben has a strong arm, and he has an ability to keep his focus down field during duress, he also has the best escapability in the history of the game. So what do the Steelers do to take advantage of those skills.........not much!

If we had an offensive game plan which created mis-direction and mis-timing, Ben's skills would make him nearly unstoppable. As it is, we don't even balance a run-pass scheme, we get a run game going and go right back to the pass. We don't use screens and draws well to keep the defense honest. And we struggle with an O-line that has a new set of issues every year, there is no "pocket" and this leads to Ben scrambling rather than stepping up in to the pocket like it is supposed to work.

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I agree with most of what you said except his ability to keep focus down field.

I think ben is great too.

I am just able to be honest about him.

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Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

I agree with most of what you said except his ability to keep focus down field.

I think ben is great too.

I am just able to be honest about him.

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I really think that Ben's ability to keep focused down field is a huge plus for him. As opposed to the QB's who tuck and run creating excitement, and selling tickets, Ben's MO of staying put and looking for an open receiver is why he wins games.

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Originally Posted by Big T

Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

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It's amazing to me how anything said about Ben that isn't entirely positive and full of praise immediately implodes the readers ability to comprehend what was written

I said :
1. Ben is elite
2. Ben is the reason the Steelers are contenders at the beginning of every season

I also said:
1. Ben isn't the same type of franchise QB as Peyton, Brady, etc who relies on the traditional skills (passing abilities, Football IQ)
2. Ben's biggest strengths are also a contributing factor to this team's lack of consistency over the years


PS Ben would be a terrible fit in Green Bay's system. Do people actually think Ben would be good in a quick read, quick release west coast system??? Jesus Christ people :shakehead:

GB, New England, and New Orleans systems are about as different as any 3 systems in the NFL. Just assuming that Ben would be awesome in those systems is just plain dumb.

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Originally Posted by Stone

I really think that Ben's ability to keep focused down field is a huge plus for him. As opposed to the QB's who tuck and run creating excitement, and selling tickets, Ben's MO of staying put and looking for an open receiver is why he wins games.

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I disagree. Ben does NOT keep his eyes downfield. His skill is that after breaking the pocket he is able to relocate his downfield options very well. But he does not stand in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. Ben gives up to quickly in the pocket. We accept it, because he makes even greater plays because of his "improvisation" skills.

I do think this is a common misinterpretation. Ben's ability to make plays downfield after breaking the rhythm is not the same as a pocket QB who keeps his eyes downfield.

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Originally Posted by Crash

What's insane is he doesn't get the respect he deserves from his HOME fan base.

Other than the usual suspects (Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincy) Ben is respected more OUTSIDE of Pittsburgh than he is in it.

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This is total crap. Just because he's criticized doesn't mean the home fan base doesn't respect him. You sound like a child.
We have family members we harshly criticize. But we love them don't we??? Gzzzzz. Grow up.

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Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

I disagree. Ben does NOT keep his eyes downfield. His skill is that after breaking the pocket he is able to relocate his downfield options very well. But he does not stand in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. Ben gives up to quickly in the pocket. We accept it, because he makes even greater plays because of his "improvisation" skills.

I do think this is a common misinterpretation. Ben's ability to make plays downfield after breaking the rhythm is not the same as a pocket QB who keeps his eyes downfield.

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Gotcha....and your right about him breaking eye contact. But I'm not sure it's possible to maintain when Mike Adams and others allow their man to get at Ben untouched.....on a routine basis.

This is the point I made earlier. Our O line does not protect a "pocket" it is pure chaos upon the snap.