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Steelerlyn
09-07-2006, 01:38 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/rss/s_469165.html

Steelersfan
09-07-2006, 02:23 PM
Very nice article. He made some great points about Ben. I wouldn't trade him for any other QB right now.

AZ_Steeler
09-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Great find in that article Lyn!

Ben is truly an amazing QB, the one thing that strikes me most about him is it always seems like if the Steelers are down a few points... Ben comes out onto the field and takes his team down the field to either put some points on the board or puts the ball in the endzone! He's got this demeanor about himself that says "I'm not going to lose!" whether it be a game or his life!

Here is a section that really stuck out at me
Actually, underappreciated might be the more appropriate term for Ben Roethlisberger, who will miss tonight's opener against the Miami Dolphins on account of his emergency appendectomy Sunday.

The Steelers will not crumble in his absence. Tommy Maddox doesn't live here anymore, so as long as Charlie Batch stays upright, the club should be able to survive even a couple of games without Big Ben. What's even more amazing is that so many people still consider Roethlisberger to be more a function of the Steelers' system than anything else.

I gotta agree with this guy because I can't count the number of times someone has told me "The Steelers run the ball he doesn't need to do anything!" excuse me but it takes someone with the "it" factor and some smarts to be a QB that can make the plays when his number is called on! Case in point the playoffs! The author in the article touched on this and brought up Ben's QB rating of 128 through the first three games of the playoffs. IMO, if Ben ever takes the Steelers back to the Super Bowl, we will see a Ben perform at a level he did during the Bengals, Colts and Bronco game.

If you go back to the AFCCG against NE, Ben wasn't very impressinve. So this past year Ben improved drastically in the AFCCG then not so hot in the SB... I feel sorry for the defense that faces Ben in his next SB whenever that might be because his pattern for performance is definitely on his side!

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 05:30 PM
"I wouldn't trade him for any other QB right now."

open you eyes this kid has helth issues or al least issues with staying healthy
how may starts has Manning or Brady missed? Still want ben than you don't
understand Football.......you understand being a fan.........there is a difference.
_________________

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 05:32 PM
"I wouldn't trade him for any other QB right now."

open you eyes this kid has helth issues or al least issues with staying healthy
how may starts has Manning or Brady missed? Still want ben than you don't
understand Football.......you understand being a fan.........there is a difference.
_________________

May I ask who are you, and what is your legions lie?

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 05:35 PM
I am a football man that knows the game

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 05:37 PM
And WE all are not football fans that know the game??? COME ON DUDE, a fan stick with their team through thick and thin. A real fan sticks with a team through injuries and downfalls. You my friend got a lot to learn about being a true football fan. I hope you have a change of heart.

Where is your legions lie dude?

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 06:12 PM
understanding the game and being a fan is different, you can not make statements from your heart and expect someone to respect you as a football man, a fan yes but a football man no,

I played this game at a very high level and view it differently not as a fan but as a football Man. So anyone who says that would perfer to a have an often banged up QB over a 2 time SB MVP or a probowler many times over who are never injuried is just is thinking with his heart not his head
head.....again it's ok to be a fan .

Steelersfan
09-07-2006, 06:13 PM
"I wouldn't trade him for any other QB right now."

open you eyes this kid has helth issues or al least issues with staying healthy
how may starts has Manning or Brady missed? Still want ben than you don't
understand Football.......you understand being a fan.........there is a difference.
_________________
Why don't you open your eyes. Ben wins games. Maybe he isn't the healthiest QB around but he has a long career ahead of him and has already shown how good he can be. You can have Manning and all his SB wins....:greengrin: Brady is a good QB and if we didn't have Ben already I would have loved to have had him in a Steelers uniform.
I understand being both types of fans.

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 06:17 PM
Ben is a fine QB any team would be happy to have him ( less the Patroits or Colts) but there are better QB's and that doen not taking a thing away from Ben.

He had an absoult stinker in the SB.......Never happend to Brady.

Steelersfan
09-07-2006, 06:20 PM
He also tore it up going into the SB. Maybe a lot of things went wrong for him that game. Seattle's D did play well so that would have been part of it. Maybe he got caught up in everything. I don't know. But I do know what our record is with him over the past 2 years. I'll take that considering how young he is.

AZ_Steeler
09-07-2006, 06:38 PM
I can see where Legend is coming from... sort of! I'm sure we have all read the articles from these guys that write about a team, but it just so happens to be their favorite team. We all moan and groan about what these media types say, but like Legend is saying these guys don't understand the game because they are to busy being a fan... If I'm understadning him correctly...

Legend you may have played football at a "high" level and understand the game, but you can't come onto a board, a Steelers board on top of that, saying that people are fans and don't understand the game. Yes everyone on this board is fans, but I gaurantee you that a lot of these members probably understand the game just as much as you do. So before you start flexing your muscles and claiming to be a "football man" then maybe you should stop and realize what Ben has done for the Steelers in two years. Oh yeah, and did I mention that the past two years were his first two years in the league!

A lot of people will take pro bowlers! That's fine all you really get there is a lot of fluff, a QB with awesome stats but nothing to show for it. Ben has a record, as a starter, of 27-4. Of those 4 loses, one of the games wasn't even close because he was coming off an injury and had some rust. Another loss was the AFCG where nerves and the NFL's grueling schedule had a lot to do with, and another loss was because the refs gave the other team an extra 51 seconds which allowed them to get into FG range and win the game. The fourth loss had al ot to do with Ben because of his 3 INT's but that was his first game playing with the broken thumb.

In case you forgot the injury that caused Ben to miss his games last year was to his knee. Fast forward to the last quarter of the season. Ben is on the field leading his team and playing with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and look how far he lead the Steelers!

I'm not disagreeing with you, Ben had some injuries last year... Some of these injuries could have forced others to have missed a lot more games than what Ben actually did. The point of the matter is, he played through pain and lead his team to the Super Bowl! You can't knock him for the knee injuries, that's what happens to QB's who stand in the pocket, ie Carson Palmer.

IMO it's ok to disagree with what another member posts, but to disrespect a member and say they don't understand the game... that's a little out of line in my book and disrepsectful.

AZ_Steeler
09-07-2006, 06:42 PM
Ben is a fine QB any team would be happy to have him ( less the Patroits or Colts) but there are better QB's and that doen not taking a thing away from Ben.

He had an absoult stinker in the SB.......Never happend to Brady.

Brady might not have stunk it up in the SB, but he's lucky he had a good kicker or he wouldn't be the NFL's "Golden Boy" right now. He would have a SB record of 1-2.

Like I already said above... I feel sorry for the next defense that faces Ben in the SB he will erase any thought of a bad SB performance!

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 06:45 PM
At the least we can say, a kicker didn't bail us out at the end of the Super Bowl and won the game by 3! I made my point. TWICE the PAST pulled that stunt. Ben may not of been on his best rhythm for the Super Bowl, but he did win us the game? I mean the score did prove that.

I understand your other point.. Point Taken!! my apology.

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 06:57 PM
"IMO it's ok to disagree with what another member posts, but to disrespect a member and say they don't understand the game... that's a little out of line in my book and very disrepsectful."


I am not trying to disrespect anyone I was just trying to make a point
about posters stating what is in their heart and what is a sound football
decision are two different things and thinking that Big Ben is in the same
level as Manning or Brady is a fan speaking not a football mind.

Brady and Manning are #1 and #1a everyone else is under them. ( I put Ben right behind them) No disrespect to ben or anyone here, but the facts are
facts, Ben Has an issue in health and has an issue in the big games.
( Patroits Playoff game and SB ) Now Manning has issues in big games vs Patroits himself, but he is healthy and the numbers will always be there,
you plug him into your offence and you are the favs for the SB not the Colts

So I hope I cleared this up, I think Ben is very good and more times than not
very good is all you need but when you talk about guy's like Brady or Manning
your talking about HOF's that are playing right now.
__________________

SteelerFan87
09-07-2006, 06:59 PM
"I wouldn't trade him for any other QB right now."

open you eyes this kid has helth issues or al least issues with staying healthy
how may starts has Manning or Brady missed? Still want ben than you don't
understand Football.......you understand being a fan.........there is a difference.
_________________


This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on this site.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!! He gets hurt alot?!?! Oh, yeah, and I'm sure Tom Brady wouldn't get hurt if he was in a motorcycle accident. And obviously an appendectomy means you're a very fragile player. Yeah.

What major injuries has Roethlisberger had? The motorcycle, which is a freak thing that happened off the field. The apendectomy, which is also a freak thing that happened off the field, and oh yeah, that time he took a helmet to the knee. Give me 1 QB who wouldn't get hurt on that play. You can't, because everyone would. Manning doesn't get hurt because he doesn't leave the pocket. Brady is somewhat the same way. Actually, I think Ben may be the toughest QB in the league. I mean, who else comes back that quickly from a major motorcycle accident? Who has an appendectomy, and is only expected to miss 2 weeks? Who has a knee injury as severe as Roethlisberger's, and then comes back in a few weeks and leads his team to the Super Bowl? You can also talk about his various thumb problems, but if anything that just shows more toughness. How many QBs would just sit out if they had a thumb injury like Roethlisberger's? Big Ben didn't. Based on the description of the injury, and what was required to treat it, I'm shocked he could even throw a ball. And yet, he came back and led his team to the Super Bowl.

Now, personally, I still think Peyton Manning is a better quarterback, if only because he combines his incredible skill with a knowledge of the game that is probably better than that of most offensive coordinators. Now Brady on the other hand, I don't understand why people even have him up there. He doesn't have the great skills of Manning, he CERTAINLY doesn't have the football knowledge of Manning, and if anyone is a product of a system, it's him, not Roethlisberger. No way Brady makes that pass to Ward in the Super Bowl, the one where Ben ran out of the pocket, stopped at the line of scrimmage, and threw across the field. Hell, Starkey practically calls Brady out, when he says that Roethlisberger "doesn't just dink and dunk". And think about the great scoring drives each guy has lead. Ben's usually end in touchdowns. Brady's almost always involve getting the ball in good field position, dinking and dunking a few times and letting the recievers run after the catch, and then stopping just inside Vinatieri's range and letting him kick the winning field goal.

And again, the Super Bowl is a great example of how great Ben is. Starkey was right on when he compared Ben's Super Bowl performance to that of a great pitcher who doesn't have his best stuff, but still makes his pitches and wins the game. If Brady started off as bad as Ben did, I guarantee he throws 3 picks and the pats get crushed.

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 07:03 PM
"a kicker didn't bail us out at the end of the Super Bowl and won the game by 3"

House did you even watch the game? no one bailed anyone out. Did Vinitari
throw the touchdowns to branch and givens or for that matter to you boy
vrable....no he did not in fact it was Brady who marched the team, both times, down the field on a very short clock to put the TEAM not him self
in a position to win and win they did, you cannot take anything from Brady in
fact with out Brady who would even know who vinitari is.

Steelersfan
09-07-2006, 07:20 PM
I don't think anyone said one QB was better than the other. I said I wouldn't want any of them on the Steelers now that we have Ben. There is more to being a great QB than just stats alone. Team chemistry is a big one and I don't think Manning would have that with our team. Brady probably could.

Also, Welcome to SA "The Legend"!

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 07:24 PM
Excuse me? Your wrong!!

Super Bowl XXXVIII against Carolina:

Adam Vinatieri kicked a 41-yard field goal with four seconds remaining as the Patriots won their second Super Bowl in three seasons.

Super Bowl XXXVI against St. Louis

Adam Vinatieri's 48-yard field goal as time expired gave the New England Patriots their first Super Bowl title.

Now tell me something, who knows FOOTBALL???

Legend, I will always respect your opinions and thoughts, beside the point, you are a friend and always will be. We may debate one another, but everyone that comes here is a friend to me. I had to correct you here, cause in fact, I know pretty much about football, I am a former High School Backup QB, RB, SS, and WR. Played as a third stringer QB for the University of Toledo 1999-2000, I was on the squad that upset Penn State as I was on the bench the whole time. I am very interested to hear about your career, if you don't mind? I would like to hear about your highlights and stuff. Have a good night!!

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 07:28 PM
I don't think anyone said one QB was better than the other. I said I wouldn't want any of them on the Steelers now that we have Ben. There is more to being a great QB than just stats alone. Team chemistry is a big one and I don't think Manning would have that with our team. Brady probably could.

Also, Welcome to SA "The Legend"!

Great point....and by the way I agree

AZ_Steeler
09-07-2006, 07:28 PM
"IMO it's ok to disagree with what another member posts, but to disrespect a member and say they don't understand the game... that's a little out of line in my book and very disrepsectful."


I am not trying to disrespect anyone I was just trying to make a point about posters stating what is in their heart and what is a sound football decision are two different things and thinking that Big Ben is in the same level as Manning or Brady is a fan speaking not a football mind.

Brady and Manning are #1 and #1a everyone else is under them. ( I put Ben right behind them) No disrespect to ben or anyone here, but the facts are facts, Ben Has an issue in health and has an issue in the big games. ( Patroits Playoff game and SB ) Now Manning has issues in big games vs Patroits himself, but he is healthy and the numbers will always be there, you plug him into your offence and you are the favs for the SB not the Colts

So I hope I cleared this up, I think Ben is very good and more times than not very good is all you need but when you talk about guy's like Brady or Manning your talking about HOF's that are playing right now.
__________________

I'm gald to hear you're not disrespecting anybody :bigthumb:

Back to football... Manning is a great QB, although sometimes I think he's more of a mime than anything else, but he hasn't proven to be a great playoff QB. He'll no doubt be a HOFer, but it will probably be because of his numbers and not his rings :dunno: Until he can get that playoff monkey off his back he's just going to be a great regular season QB.

Brady is great also. He has an uncanny ability to find the open man and it doesn't matter who that person is! He can spread the ball across the field and you never know who's he's going to throw it too. He also has a great kicker to thank everyday of his life while he sits on a pedastal giving to him by the NFL. However, it will be intersting to see how Brady responds with his receiving core he has now.

Brady's first SB performance wasn't really anything to write home about either, 16/26 or something like that for a 145 yards a TD. Those aren't SB MVP numbers in my book but the voters didn't feel right giving it to a kicker :) I'll give him credit for his second MVP though that was a good game on his part.

Ben is a WIP (Work in Porgress)! His first 2 years have been awesome, he has set some rookie marks that will probably never be accomplished again, at least not in our lifetime. He hasn't been asked to do much, as far as passing game goes, but when the Steelers have needed something from Ben he has delivered. You can't argue about a 128 passer rating over the span of 3 playoffs games, especially against two pretty good defenses. The SB he did tank but he did make some plays in that game when the Steelers needed them. If you take away that INT he threw in the Steelers end zone and chalk that up as a TD that game is entirely differnet and so are his numbers (BTW, I hate the what if game so nobody needs to really think about the what if I just threw out there). Ben will redeem himself given the chance. He has proven that over the course of the two consecutive AFCCG he has played in.

Ben might not be on the level of a Manning and Brady, but you can't deny that he is well on his way and may have even passed Manning given their personal playoff records. Ben has been given more and more each year and the best is yet to come!

Steelersfan
09-07-2006, 07:28 PM
House, I wouldn't call that bailing Brady out. He did what he was suppose to do. The whole Pats team did to get into position to win the game. But I can see where you would think that. Of all the kicks Vinetari made the one in the snow to beat Oakland in the playoffs (tuck rule) was by far the best.

AZ_Steeler
09-07-2006, 07:31 PM
House, I wouldn't call that bailing Brady out. He did what he was suppose to do. The whole Pats team did to get into position to win the game. But I can see where you would think that. Of all the kicks Vinetari made the one in the snow to beat Oakland in the playoffs (tuck rule) was by far the best.

setting all rules aside... that was one great kick!

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 07:34 PM
I will admit, it sure the heck was a great kick. I was jaw dropping to the floor look when he clear the post. That tuck rule was something to be desired, I was shocked and livid that call didn't go into Oakland favor. That is the Past, and I won't whine about it.

Legend, I guess you made a point, and again my apologies. Steelerfan, you read my mind, that is where I was making the assumption. I can tell you this, a lot of Steelers fans will say, Vinateri bailed Brady out in two Super Bowls. I agree with your extent, Brady was the reason why Vinateri was set up to win. He is a dominating QB under pressure just like John Elway whom I have a lot of respect for beating and crushing the Browns' fans hearts in the playoffs.

House of Steel
09-07-2006, 07:37 PM
Impressive!!! Playing Cornerback isn't an easy task I can tell you that. I had the luxury when I played Strong Safety as a Junior since we had two talented CB as Senior. I had a good year as a SS, three interceptions and a couple of nice sacks. I was more impressive as a small running back in my Senior Year, I could of done better, I was mediocre at the best. Best game was 162 yards and 2 TDs. I averaged about 74 yards as a guess. We had a very bad OL and they couldn't even open a gap a cm wide if I asked them too. I basically was lucky I was small enough to crawl my way through some holes being 5 ft 9 inches. I was fast.

THE LEGEND
09-07-2006, 07:37 PM
"I am a former High School Backup QB, RB, SS, and WR. Played as a third stringer QB for the University of Toledo 1999-2000, I was on the squad that upset Penn State as I was on the bench the whole time. I am very interested to hear about your career, if you don't mind? I would like to hear about your highlights and stuff. Have a good night!!"

Boston College grad 1985 year starter at corner back played in the Cotton
Bowl. Undrafted
__________________

SteelerFan87
09-07-2006, 07:45 PM
I see my post was ignored. Whatever.

I will repeat a few things.

1."it was Brady who marched the team, both times, down the field on a very short clock to put the TEAM not him self
in a position to win and win they did, you cannot take anything from Brady in
fact with out Brady who would even know who vinitari is."

I'm pretty sure House of Steel answered that pretty well. Anybody who wins super bowls with last second field goals of 41 and 48 yards is a kicker people will remember. And if Brady was so great at marching his team down the field, why were Vinatieri's kicks so long?

2. I already decribed how a tom brady game winning drive goes. It starts with the other team kicking off, because they just scored to tie the game. The Pats recieve the kick, and then return it to put brady in good field position. Brady comes on, completes 3-5 dink and dunk passes, and then watches his recievers run for first downs. Pretty soon the Pats have travelled the 35-40 yards necessary to get them into Vinatieri's field goal range, and brady walks off the field, and lets Vinatieri come on and kick the game winner as time expires.

Wow. God that was SO much better than Roethlisberger marching down the field for a touchdown! Touchdowns are overrated anyway. Setting up field goals, now there's the mark of a truly great player. [/sarcasm]


BTW, this is nothing personal. It's just that when I read bullshit, I feel obligated to respond. I'm sure you will have many posts I will agree with, on other topics.