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View Full Version : Most overrated of all time...



BlitzburghRockCity
05-29-2007, 10:38 PM
Since we have another thread that Lyn started about the most underrated Steelers of all time, how bout the ones that were the most overrated. Im not talking about total busts here like Troy Edwards or Zo Jackson but guys that are just overrated and maybe didn't live up fully to their expectations yet still contributed.

Eric Greene could be on this list, he performed well for us when he played early on but he fizzed out way too soon... he got into trouble and started to fall out of the offense but for a time he was unstoppable.

TEEMONT
05-29-2007, 10:39 PM
So far....Big Ben....

BlitzburghRockCity
05-29-2007, 10:49 PM
I don't think we can put Ben on that list yet considering what he's accomplished in his first 3 years in the league it's hard to argue with his success. I think if he comes out this year and plays terrible then maybe I'd consider it but at this point given what happened to the whole team last year overall I can't put him on this yet by any stretch as of yet.

Regardless of what he's done last year there's now way that we would have made it to the Super Bowl and won it without him.

Another one on this list would have to be Charles Johnson. He was a 1st round pick and while he was a starter and made plays for us he just never really turned into that super star, go to guy that we all hoped he'd be.

TEEMONT
05-29-2007, 11:05 PM
I don't think we can put Ben on that list yet considering what he's accomplished in his first 3 years in the league it's hard to argue with his success. I think if he comes out this year and plays terrible then maybe I'd consider it but at this point given what happened to the whole team last year overall I can't put him on this yet by any stretch as of yet.

Regardless of what he's done last year there's now way that we would have made it to the Super Bowl and won it without him.

Another one on this list would have to be Charles Johnson. He was a 1st round pick and while he was a starter and made plays for us he just never really turned into that super star, go to guy that we all hoped he'd be.

Well "his" success is the teams success. We could have won the SB with another QB in there....and we could have gone 15-1 with another QB as well, IMO. I think Ben is overrated b/c at this point in his career he is considered a franchise QB, and he isn't yet. A franchise QB puts the franchise before himself, and he hasn't done that yet. Until he proves otherwise...he is overated.

I always thought Dwight Stone was overated too.

RckyMtnStlrFan
05-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Well "his" success is the teams success. We could have won the SB with another QB in there....and we could have gone 15-1 with another QB as well, IMO. I think Ben is overrated b/c at this point in his career he is considered a franchise QB, and he isn't yet. A franchise QB puts the franchise before himself, and he hasn't done that yet. Until he proves otherwise...he is overated.

I always thought Dwight Stone was overated too.

Your crazy if you think we could've won the SB with another QB. If we had Peyton or Brady we still would've been 8-8 or at best 10-6 which would've gotten us a playoff spot, but FAR from the SB. QB's can't be stars when they are on their backs. Regardless of what you think about Ben's talent you have to admit he is one of the best at shaking off tackles and he still was on his back more than most. What was it, 48 sacks? You can't produce big numbers that way!:evilshake: imho

I just realized you were talking about the SB year. Too much booze! But I still disagree. We could've won the SB with another QB, but we would'nt have gotten there!

K Train
05-29-2007, 11:35 PM
kendall simmons

okiesteeler
05-29-2007, 11:43 PM
Kordell Stewart

RckyMtnStlrFan
05-30-2007, 12:04 AM
Yeah, Kordell gets my vote.

SteelerSteve
05-30-2007, 01:57 AM
Judging from what Ive heard I would say Ben is underrated not overrated.:2cents:

Blitzburghpete
05-30-2007, 03:04 AM
Kordell Stewart who was gonna be the next ( at the time ) Randall Cunningham.
Also Mark Bruner TE 1st round pick i think
Amos Zeroue RB had a lot fo promise but ultimately was rubbish.

BR7
05-30-2007, 04:32 AM
I'd have to say one of my fav Steeler RBs.. Barry Foster. Kordell, gets a vote here too. In Kordell's defense though.. the change of OC's every year didn't help his play much. I think he would have performed up to expectations had there been some consistancy coach wise.

BlitzburghRockCity
05-30-2007, 06:20 AM
kendall simmons

Good point, Kendall Simmons is big time overrated. Ever since he was diagosed as being a Diabetic and then hurt his knee he just hasn't been that mauling type of guard that we envisioned him to be.

kgreen
05-30-2007, 08:18 AM
Well "his" success is the teams success. We could have won the SB with another QB in there....and we could have gone 15-1 with another QB as well, IMO. I think Ben is overrated b/c at this point in his career he is considered a franchise QB, and he isn't yet. A franchise QB puts the franchise before himself, and he hasn't done that yet. Until he proves otherwise...he is overated.

I always thought Dwight Stone was overated too.

Did you even watch the 05 season?:scratch:

Did you notice that when anyone of our QBs but Ben was in there we were below average on offense. Ben is the reason we were so hot in the post season on offense. So yeah you're wrong take Ben off the list.

Probably Plaxico Burress. That guy never lived his full potential in the burgh!

steelersgal86
05-30-2007, 09:16 AM
Kordell gets my vote...:tt02:

PsychoWard
05-30-2007, 09:28 AM
charles johnson, yancy thigpen, bam morris,deon figuers...

House of Steel
05-30-2007, 09:34 AM
Kordell big time
Amos Zereoue is another good one, PETE!!!

Dewayne Washington and Chad Scott, those two jokers really ticked me off anymore. Ricardo Colcough is getting close to that list.

Stlrs4Life
05-30-2007, 05:34 PM
Also go with Barry Foster.

SteelerDan43
05-31-2007, 09:44 PM
Your crazy if you think we could've won the SB with another QB. If we had Peyton or Brady we still would've been 8-8 or at best 10-6 which would've gotten us a playoff spot, but FAR from the SB. QB's can't be stars when they are on their backs. Regardless of what you think about Ben's talent you have to admit he is one of the best at shaking off tackles and he still was on his back more than most. What was it, 48 sacks? You can't produce big numbers that way!:evilshake: imho

I just realized you were talking about the SB year. Too much booze! But I still disagree. We could've won the SB with another QB, but we would'nt have gotten there!

Peyton and Brady are far better than Ben, we have either and we win not only XL but we win the previous one as well. Remember the loft pass to Rodney Harrison that he ran back in the AFC championship game and then the replay of that same thing we saw in the Super Bowl... Neither of those QBs make those passes.

TEEMONT
05-31-2007, 11:29 PM
Did you even watch the 05 season?:scratch:

Did you notice that when anyone of our QBs but Ben was in there we were below average on offense. Ben is the reason we were so hot in the post season on offense. So yeah you're wrong take Ben off the list.

Probably Plaxico Burress. That guy never lived his full potential in the burgh!

Hey I said he was overated....most people here have him as the next Dan marino and throwing for over 30 TD's next year.....which makes him overated. He is a serviceable QB right now, not a franchise QB.

SteelerSteve
06-01-2007, 02:56 AM
Hey I said he was overated....most people here have him as the next Dan marino and throwing for over 30 TD's next year.....which makes him overated. He is a serviceable QB right now, not a franchise QB.
Even though I am a big fan of big ben:lol: I think you make some valid points. I hope like crazy he throws 30 tds but 25 is probably more realistic based on our offensive style. I do think he will become our franchise qb though due to his upside, hes got size, mobility, the ability to shake off tacklers, a strong arm,etc.etc. He should be able to read the defenses better next year with more film studying and a simpler playbook, and as far as being the next marino that wont happen because he has already won a superbowl, Marino can keep his stats I'm happy with the ring:greengrin:

BBC
06-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Hey I said he was overated....most people here have him as the next Dan marino and throwing for over 30 TD's next year.....which makes him overated. He is a serviceable QB right now, not a franchise QB.

Show me one post that said that.

I'm really curious as to who it is that's "overrating" Ben. No one gives him credit for anything he does. I haven't seen one quarterback ranking that has him in the top 5 in the league, and some don't even have him in the top 10.

You want to talk about Ben's individual accomplishments?

How about having a passer rating above 98 his first two seasons in the league (which ranked in the top five both years). Maybe breaking nearly every passing record for a rookie in NFL history? The team accomplishments (which the team wasn't doing before he showed up, and couldn't do when he was injured), are just icing on Ben's cake, that even further prove that he is much more than "serviceable."

TEEMONT
06-01-2007, 03:53 PM
Show me one post that said that.

I'm really curious as to who it is that's "overrating" Ben. No one gives him credit for anything he does. I haven't seen one quarterback ranking that has him in the top 5 in the league, and some don't even have him in the top 10.

You want to talk about Ben's individual accomplishments?

How about having a passer rating above 98 his first two seasons in the league (which ranked in the top five both years). Maybe breaking nearly every passing record for a rookie in NFL history? The team accomplishments (which the team wasn't doing before he showed up, and couldn't do when he was injured), are just icing on Ben's cake, that even further prove that he is much more than "serviceable."


Steeler fans overrate Ben, I think he is overrrated as a "franchise QB", he may go on to prove me wrong, I really hope he does. Breaking all of those rookie records doesn't mean a damn thing b/c the only thing he broke in the pllayoffs that year was all of our hopes and dreams, blah, blah, blah. ben is fairly replaceable, which was proved by Charlie Batch last year.

You don't think he is a serviceable QB? LEts compare him to Jake Delhomme...a QB who actually throws the ball more than 25 times a game on avg. And who is in my opinion...and avg QB. This is over the last three years.

Player Att Comp Per TD's INT's YDS GS RTG
Ben 1032 644 62.4% 52 43 8519 41 87.9
Delhomme 1399 835 59.6% 70 42 10112 45 86.0

I didnt include playoff stats, b/c well, that would have probably made Bens stats a little worse and I wante dto give him the benfit of the doubt. So Ben throws 300 passes less than a guy like Jake DelHomme, and he is a franchise QB? He was a stooge in the O Cowher ran. Hopefully Tomlin will allow him to open it up a little bit, b/c I think Ben has some natural talent. But we will see what he does when he has the keys to the car. We usually don't do too well when Ben throws more than 25 times a game. Neither does Ben.

Thats overated for you. And with all the rookie "accolades" you talked about, how many QB's get a chance to start 14 games their rookie year? Not many, outside of Dan Marino, I think. Ben threw more than 25 times in a game one that year. I'd say the Bus was getting it done, not Ben.

BBC
06-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Well, Ben does throw the ball more than 25 times per start on average, but I digress.

I really can't stand the "attempts" argument. There's a reason that Ben didn't throw the ball 40 times a game in his first two seasons...he didn't need to. He built a big enough lead in the first halves that he didn't need to throw the ball late in the game. Cowher would sit on the lead and the Steelers would win (there's a reason Bill only lost one game when he gained a lead of over 10 out of 110 times or so). Ben's passer rating in the first quarter in 2005 (when we won the Super Bowl) topped the NFL, and he had more yards per first quarter than both Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer. Ben wasn't relying on the run to win, he was winning those games.

kgreen
06-01-2007, 05:14 PM
Well, Ben does throw the ball more than 25 times per start on average, but I digress.

I really can't stand the "attempts" argument. There's a reason that Ben didn't throw the ball 40 times a game in his first two seasons...he didn't need to. He built a big enough lead in the first halves that he didn't need to throw the ball late in the game. Cowher would sit on the lead and the Steelers would win (there's a reason Bill only lost one game when he gained a lead of over 10 out of 110 times or so). Ben's passer rating in the first quarter in 2005 (when we won the Super Bowl) topped the NFL, and he had more yards per first quarter than both Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer. Ben wasn't relying on the run to win, he was winning those games.

Nice points BBC:bigthumb:. Ben does more to win games for than any other QB in the post-Bradshaw era. I mean yes Neil could win to certain point, but he seemed to lose it in playoff games (See Super Bowl XXX). Kordell had his moments but was too eratic. Tommy was good for one year. So enter Ben. We got 15-1 with Ben at the helm. We lose the Patriots, Ben suffers the hit of the Rookie wall. I don't think we need to go over just how valuble he was to us in 2005. When Batch or Tommyw was in there our Offense basically sucked. Ben goes to post season and destroys the secondaries of Denver, Indy and Cinncy. He wins Super Bowl XL by making plays when had to. Hm. That doesn't sound too bad.

Then we enter 2006. Ben goes through a crash that NO ONE could walk away from the same. Goes to training camp and has an awesome camp/preseason. Then the apindectomy + concussion in the Falcons game= a bad season. It should have been enough for him to experience the crash and one concussion but another concussion? I mean you can't expect him to be the same after that? He can't be overrated with everyone bashing him about how stupid and bad he is. Merril Hoge stated it best when he said that Ben is not done developing yet. He was right when he said it takes longer than 2 or 3 years to develope a QB.

So, I think this year he will prove everybody wrong. He will prove that 2005 was just a development year (scary though right?).

Black@Gold Forever32
06-01-2007, 05:31 PM
Steeler fans overrate Ben, I think he is overrrated as a "franchise QB", he may go on to prove me wrong, I really hope he does. Breaking all of those rookie records doesn't mean a damn thing b/c the only thing he broke in the pllayoffs that year was all of our hopes and dreams, blah, blah, blah. ben is fairly replaceable, which was proved by Charlie Batch last year.

You don't think he is a serviceable QB? LEts compare him to Jake Delhomme...a QB who actually throws the ball more than 25 times a game on avg. And who is in my opinion...and avg QB. This is over the last three years.

Player Att Comp Per TD's INT's YDS GS RTG
Ben 1032 644 62.4% 52 43 8519 41 87.9
Delhomme 1399 835 59.6% 70 42 10112 45 86.0

I didnt include playoff stats, b/c well, that would have probably made Bens stats a little worse and I wante dto give him the benfit of the doubt. So Ben throws 300 passes less than a guy like Jake DelHomme, and he is a franchise QB? He was a stooge in the O Cowher ran. Hopefully Tomlin will allow him to open it up a little bit, b/c I think Ben has some natural talent. But we will see what he does when he has the keys to the car. We usually don't do too well when Ben throws more than 25 times a game. Neither does Ben.

Thats overated for you. And with all the rookie "accolades" you talked about, how many QB's get a chance to start 14 games their rookie year? Not many, outside of Dan Marino, I think. Ben threw more than 25 times in a game one that year. I'd say the Bus was getting it done, not Ben.

Ok, Teemont....How many quarters did Batch play last year? Well the whole game against the Dolphins which would be 4...Then he came in the Falcons game midway in the 3rd quarter against the Falcons when Ben was knocked out....So Batch didn't even play 6 whole quarters...So that proved Batch can replace Ben....:lol: Sorry but that doesn't prove ****.....

BBC
06-01-2007, 05:32 PM
Merril Hoge stated it best when he said that Ben is not done developing yet. He was right when he said it takes longer than 2 or 3 years to develope a QB.

There's the other great part about Ben. He's only going into his 4th year, and he's already established as a (at the very least) top 10 QB in the league. Terry Bradshaw wasn't even a decent QB until his 5th or 6th year in the league.

SteelerDan43
06-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Ben still has to prove he didnt permanently scramble his melon by putting his face through a windshield

BlitzburghNation
06-01-2007, 08:52 PM
:popcorn:

BlacknGold Bleeder
06-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Back on topic...John Reinstra, Plexiglass, Kordell, Troy Edwards to name a few.... How could Amos be overated?? he was more of an after thought...

Stairwayto7
06-02-2007, 06:58 AM
Bam Morris, I thought was over rated. And Tim Worley, what a stool