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View Full Version : Mel Kiper's latest 4 round mock draft



BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 11:40 AM
Here is the link:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2833079

Surprisingly, I am not completely disgusted with his picks.

Here is what they are:

Rnd 1: Lawrence Timmons/OLB/FSU
Rnd 2: Arron Sears/OL/Tennessee
Rnd 3: Fred Bennett/CB/South Carolina
Rnd 4: Daniel Sepulveda/P/Baylor
Rnd 4 Comp: Troy Smith/QB/Ohio State

The only pick that I really disagree with is the 3rd with Fred Bennett. I would rather that they take a running back with that pick. But if this is the way the first 4 rounds fell out I would not be too upset with these selections.

jasonbay
04-16-2007, 11:49 AM
I can deal with everything but taking Troy Smith , no need to waste a draft on position that is locked down with a solid starter and even though him a solid back up . Maybe a 6th or 7th then I wouldnt mind but 4 nahh I dont want them to do it

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 12:12 PM
I can deal with everything but taking Troy Smith , no need to waste a draft on position that is locked down with a solid starter and even though him a solid back up . Maybe a 6th or 7th then I wouldnt mind but 4 nahh I dont want them to do it

Although Ben might be our franchise QB and might be around for another 10 or more years, Charlie Batch is not quite as young and there is nobody of significance behind Batch. They do need to groom someone to eventually replace Batch when he decides to move on. Brian St. Pierre and Omar Jacobs just don't do it for me. Smith does have some skills whether you like him or not. :yesnod:

DIESELMAN
04-16-2007, 12:15 PM
The only pick that I really disagree with is the 3rd with Fred Bennett. I would rather that they take a running back with that pick.

:bigthumb: I agree, according to Kipers draft that would make Tony Hunt, Lorenzo Booker and Brandon Jackson available. Bennett doesn't have great speed and some "experts" are saying he would fit in a Tampa2 defense, well there ya go, thats the reason Kiper made him our pick. There are others still on the board I would rather have then Bennett, including some more DE'S and LB's.

K Train
04-16-2007, 01:27 PM
other than bennett that is an AMAZING draft. Troy smith in the 4th....WOW, what a steal. i know alot of you hate him but hes gonna be good. He'll never live that NC game down but it wasnt all him. At least he was good enough to win year after year and take them to a NC. I think he'll be gone in the second. Hes gonna be good, if Mcnabb and brees had a child it would be troy smith.

I would like a RB/WR instead of bennett. Hunt or smith/gonzo preferably. Im happy with the first 2....and thrilled with the 4th...wow what a draft

BlitzburghRockCity
04-16-2007, 01:58 PM
Rnd 1: Lawrence Timmons/OLB/FSU - cool
Rnd 2: Arron Sears/OL/Tennessee - cool
Rnd 3: Fred Bennett/CB/South Carolina - No, we need a RB here
Rnd 4: Daniel Sepulveda/P/Baylor - I can deal with this pick but not thrilled about it only because I hate the thought of taking a punter early on day 2 ;)
Rnd 4 Comp: Troy Smith/QB/Ohio State - While I agree he could potentially be good, there's no way I want to spend a 4th rounder on a QB. As long as Charlie will keep playing as a backup, he's as capable as they come and we can always get a scrapper 3rd string QB if need be.

I wouldn't mind seeing us take a CB in the 4th round.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 02:09 PM
Do you think Troy Smith might switch to WR in the NFL? I think thats real possible.

AZ_Steeler
04-16-2007, 02:11 PM
Troy Smith in the fourth round???? :scratch: Is he really projected to go that low? :dunno:

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Do you think Troy Smith might switch to WR in the NFL? I think thats real possible.

Not that i think he wouldnt be a decent wr like a randle el (no hines ward but a good QB turned 3rd wr) but that would be a major waste of talent... everybody looks at his last game... if you take out that game and '05 pennstate game this guys career was FANTASTIC... yeah it would have been better if he didnt have a dismal showing in the BCS game but this guy won some major games... who else in the silver and scarlet beat Michigan 3 years straight!?!? And its not like he was a run first QB, this guy has a arm to make ANY throw on the feild and elusiveness to avoid the rush. He can throw on the run, in the pocket and knows when to pull it donw and run with it. I'd like to see him get drafted by a team who plans to use him as a qb in the near future... and prove all the haters wrong, lol just like last year when eveyone said VY was gonna be a bust... from bust to OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!!

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 02:22 PM
Not that i think he wouldnt be a decent wr like a randle el (no hines ward but a good QB turned 3rd wr) but that would be a major waste of talent... everybody looks at his last game... if you take out that game and '05 pennstate game this guys career was FANTASTIC... yeah it would have been better if he didnt have a dismal showing in the BCS game but this guy won some major games... who else in the silver and scarlet beat Michigan 3 years straight!?!? And its not like he was a run first QB, this guy has a arm to make ANY throw on the feild and elusiveness to avoid the rush. He can throw on the run, in the pocket and knows when to pull it donw and run with it. I'd like to see him get drafted by a team who plans to use him as a qb in the near future... and prove all the haters wrong, lol just like last year when eveyone said VY was gonna be a bust... from bust to OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!!

I was never really impressed with Troy Smith. I don't think he will be a very good starting NFL QB at all. True he tore it up in college but alot of great college QB's have failed in the NFL.

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 02:28 PM
Well, would you say that about brady quinn or jamarcus russell... my question is why troy smith... is it the Heisman Trophy or the fact that he played in a stronger program than the others (i know ND is a top notch program as far as prestige but we're talking football here)??? Im not sure why every year a guy like this is always thrown under the bus, usually scouts are wrong. its just a role reversal. i think they are still trying to make up for the days of guys like Akili Smith <---spell check...

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 02:36 PM
Well, would you say that about brady quinn or jamarcus russell... my question is why troy smith... is it the Heisman Trophy or the fact that he played in a stronger program than the others (i know ND is a top notch program as far as prestige but we're talking football here)??? Im not sure why every year a guy like this is always thrown under the bus, usually scouts are wrong. its just a role reversal. i think they are still trying to make up for the days of guys like Akili Smith <---spell check...

I just was never impressed with Troy Smith while watching him in college. As for Brady Quinn, I'm not a big Quinn fan myself. I think he is upside in the NFL is bette then Smiths but I don't think Quinn will be a great NFL QB. Hey its just my opinion. We won't know for sure about Troy Smith until he gets his chance.

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 02:38 PM
Troy Smith in the fourth round???? :scratch: Is he really projected to go that low? :dunno:

Yes, I believe that it could happen. I believe it is his size that is the major drawback (but I could be wrong). Charlie Ward also won the Heismann and went undrafted because he was undersized. People want that prototypical 6'2-6'5, 220-260, strong armed, quick thinking QB. Of all the leagues top QB's none of them are small. That's why Troy Smith will fall in the draft and will be a great pickup for someone willing to look beyond his size. IMO :yesnod:

Doug Flutie (5 ft 10 in, 180 pounds) was a small QB who proved the stereotypes wrong throughout his career. Fran Tarkenton (6-0, 190) 9-time Pro Bowler: 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1974, 1975, 1976
was also a small QB and I believe he is in the HOF.

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 02:54 PM
Yes, I believe that it could happen. I believe it is his size that is the major drawback (but I could be wrong). Charlie Ward also won the Heismann and went undrafted because he was undersized. People want that prototypical 6'2-6'5, 220-260, strong armed, quick thinking QB. Of all the leagues top QB's none of them are small. That's why Troy Smith will fall in the draft and will be a great pickup for someone willing to look beyond his size. IMO :yesnod:

Doug Flutie (5 ft 10 in, 180 pounds) was a small QB who proved the stereotypes wrong throughout his career. Fran Tarkenton was also a small QB and I believe he is in the HOF.

2 things...

1. Good point about ward.. im not sure... im a lil younger but i thought he decided to enter the NBA before that but i was young when all that happened (good coice for him too!)
2. I have to disagree with the " Of all the leagues top QB's none of them are small" ... Look at the stature of troy smith who can we compare that to... oh how about last eyars leading passer and 2 time probowler... DREW BREEZ 6'ft TALL, i hear what your saying yeah big guys have a EASIER time adjusting to the NFL... but if you can play you can play and Smith can flat out play... i hope he doesnt get boned cause scouts think he is too small.
Jeff Garcia-6'1
Trent Green-6'3
Mike Vick-6'0
Kurt Warner-6'1
ALL Multiple time pro bowlers none have had too shabby careers... its not proto-typical but effective!!!

Blitzburgh55
04-16-2007, 03:03 PM
OK there is only one qb below 6 feet in the NFL which is Senac Wallace and i like the 3rd round pick we dont need a RB

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 03:04 PM
And dont start to bash Vick i dont have the time to get into that with anybody, PLEASE!!! LOL

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 03:06 PM
OK there is only one qb below 6 feet in the NFL which is Senac Wallace and i like the 3rd round pick we dont need a RB
What does wallace have to do w/ anything??? he said there arent any top qbs in the league that are under the proto-typical 6'3-6'4+... and i REALLY hope we adress running back w/ one of our 2 4th round picks unless hunt or bush are still around in the third!!!!

kgreen
04-16-2007, 03:11 PM
I can deal with everything but taking Troy Smith , no need to waste a draft on position that is locked down with a solid starter and even though him a solid back up . Maybe a 6th or 7th then I wouldnt mind but 4 nahh I dont want them to do it

Yeah, I mean Troy Smith? Do we really need a back-up when we have two of the best in Charlie Batch and Brian St. Pierre. That's a bad pick IMO and I doubt it happens.

Blitzburgh55
04-16-2007, 03:18 PM
Yeah, I mean Troy Smith? Do we really need a back-up when we have two of the best in Charlie Batch and Brian St. Pierre. That's a bad pick IMO and I doubt it happens.

Did you just say St Pierre is good

K Train
04-16-2007, 03:32 PM
Do you think Troy Smith might switch to WR in the NFL? I think thats real possible.

ala hines ward, randel el, michael robinson, matt jones, brad smith....definite possibilty

K Train
04-16-2007, 03:35 PM
2 things...

1. Good point about ward.. im not sure... im a lil younger but i thought he decided to enter the NBA before that but i was young when all that happened (good coice for him too!)
2. I have to disagree with the " Of all the leagues top QB's none of them are small" ... Look at the stature of troy smith who can we compare that to... oh how about last eyars leading passer and 2 time probowler... DREW BREEZ 6'ft TALL, i hear what your saying yeah big guys have a EASIER time adjusting to the NFL... but if you can play you can play and Smith can flat out play... i hope he doesnt get boned cause scouts think he is too small.
Jeff Garcia-6'1
Trent Green-6'3
Mike Vick-6'0
Kurt Warner-6'1
ALL Multiple time pro bowlers none have had too shabby careers... its not proto-typical but effective!!!

brees 6-0 on his toes
mcnair-6-2
favre-6-2
mcnabb-6-2

ALL mutiple probowlers, and barely 1 inch taller than smith

Blitzburgh55
04-16-2007, 03:35 PM
ala hines ward, randel el, michael robinson, matt jones, brad smith....definite possibilty

Robinson is a RB now and Smith dosent really look like he could play WR

40-Time: 4.75

K Train
04-16-2007, 03:39 PM
robinson is a specialist, RB/WR...hes a weapon with an arm. Theyll get him involved over there, thees not much room at RB with gore running the show now.

No way that 4.7 is legit.....hes much faster than that on the field....Russle can run a 4.75.

kgreen
04-16-2007, 03:41 PM
Did you just say St Pierre is good

I said he's a good back-up, there's a difference. You know what I mean, we're good to go at QB, we don't need Smith.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 03:42 PM
Funny alot of listings I have of Smiths 40 time is 4.60.

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 03:43 PM
I dont like it, yeah he can be good but he needs to be quarterback.
Hines can play anywhere on the field and DID at Georgia... if we got thin at safety i'd put him there too in a pinch ala troy brown at corner
Matt Jones never would of made it as a quarter back and everyone knew it... hell he hasnt done much as a WR but i think he can pan out, he's a great athelete
Now Randle El was an amazing QB at indiana, i mean he played qb and returned punts, you dont get to see that too often!!!
Mike Robinson never really got a fair shake, there was no reason he shoulda been behind Zach Mills, hell he souldnt of even been at PSU... he was highly recruited by V-Tech but was talked out of it by Mike Vick...and who did V-Tech grant a scholarship to the following season... the ever-so-loveable Marcus Vick, if Robinson coulda had the chances Marc. Vick had at V-tech he would a been a top 4 qb last year maybe even taken after Leinhart and B4 Cutler!!!
My point is that Troy Smith doesn really fit the mold of the qbs mentioned by K-train, these were run first/ option guys (maybe not Jones AS MUCH) i think and hope he will have a solid career in the nfl if given a chance...

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 03:44 PM
2 things...

1. Good point about ward.. im not sure... im a lil younger but i thought he decided to enter the NBA before that but i was young when all that happened (good coice for him too!)
2. I have to disagree with the " Of all the leagues top QB's none of them are small" ... Look at the stature of troy smith who can we compare that to... oh how about last eyars leading passer and 2 time probowler... DREW BREEZ 6'ft TALL, i hear what your saying yeah big guys have a EASIER time adjusting to the NFL... but if you can play you can play and Smith can flat out play... i hope he doesnt get boned cause scouts think he is too small.
Jeff Garcia-6'1
Trent Green-6'3
Mike Vick-6'0
Kurt Warner-6'1
ALL Multiple time pro bowlers none have had too shabby careers... its not proto-typical but effective!!!

If you read what I said, you would see that I disagree with penalizing Smith because of his size. Hell, I even named a couple small QB's who had great success in the NFL. Smith didn't quite measure out to be 6'0 at the combine. Of the guys you mention above, only Vick misses the mark by a couple of inches and he isn't exactly the prototypical QB. Let's look at some of the other QB's around the league:

Brett Favre - 6'2
Tom Brady - 6'4
Peyton Manning - 6'5
Donovon McNabb - 6'2
Ben Roethlisberger - 6'5
Carson Palmer - 6'5
Matt Leinert - 6'5

This years class:
Jemarcus Russell - 6'6
Brady Quinn - 6'4

Are you starting to get the picture? Teams are generally looking for bigger QB's for better arm strength and better durability. Does that mean a smaller guy can't succeed? NO! But smaller guys present more of a RISK!

Blitzburgh55
04-16-2007, 03:45 PM
Funny alot of listings I have of Smiths 40 time is 4.60.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/troysmith.html

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 03:46 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/troysmith.html


Ok NFL Countdown is always ****ing right. I have seen other sites and many drafts mags list Smith's forty time at 4.60.lol

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 03:46 PM
brees 6-0 on his toes
mcnair-6-2
favre-6-2
mcnabb-6-2

ALL mutiple probowlers, and barely 1 inch taller than smith

AGREED, the whole QBS have to be 6'3 or better is a bunch of BS... every year there will be a goat for the media and people like us to bash and this year Smith is it, last year, if you all remember, it was said VInce Young had poor mechanics, ran too often and wouldnt be smart enough to move to a pro form offense and he relied to heavily on the talent he had at texas, yeah they hit that one right on the head didnt they

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 03:49 PM
AGREED, the whole QBS have to be 6'3 or better is a bunch of BS... every year there will be a goat for the media and people like us to bash and this year Smith is it, last year, if you all remember, it was said VInce Young had poor mechanics, ran too often and wouldnt be smart enough to move to a pro form offense and he relied to heavily on the talent he had at texas, yeah they hit that one right on the head didnt they

Dude Vince Young has played one season.:bluelol: Lets not put him in Canton just yet.lol

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 03:58 PM
AGREED, the whole QBS have to be 6'3 or better is a bunch of BS... every year there will be a goat for the media and people like us to bash and this year Smith is it, last year, if you all remember, it was said VInce Young had poor mechanics, ran too often and wouldnt be smart enough to move to a pro form offense and he relied to heavily on the talent he had at texas, yeah they hit that one right on the head didnt they


People want that prototypical 6'2-6'5, 220-260, strong armed, quick thinking QB. (this is what I said)

Most of the QB's you mentioned fall into what I originally said was prototypical. You moved it out to 6'3 to suit your argument.

Koopa
04-16-2007, 04:01 PM
other than bennett that is an AMAZING draft. Troy smith in the 4th....WOW, what a steal. i know alot of you hate him but hes gonna be good. He'll never live that NC game down but it wasnt all him. At least he was good enough to win year after year and take them to a NC. I think he'll be gone in the second. Hes gonna be good, if Mcnabb and brees had a child it would be troy smith.

I would like a RB/WR instead of bennett. Hunt or smith/gonzo preferably. Im happy with the first 2....and thrilled with the 4th...wow what a draft

yeah he's gonna be a good lifetime clip board holder..........i'm guessing you root for OSU, but troy smith is overrated garbage, he couldn't live up to his hype, except when he played the ****** *** teams they play on the reg.......... he'd be a wasted pick, because we can get another lifetime clip board holder later in the draft..........

Koopa
04-16-2007, 04:03 PM
Not that i think he wouldnt be a decent wr like a randle el (no hines ward but a good QB turned 3rd wr) but that would be a major waste of talent... everybody looks at his last game... if you take out that game and '05 pennstate game this guys career was FANTASTIC... yeah it would have been better if he didnt have a dismal showing in the BCS game but this guy won some major games... who else in the silver and scarlet beat Michigan 3 years straight!?!? And its not like he was a run first QB, this guy has a arm to make ANY throw on the feild and elusiveness to avoid the rush. He can throw on the run, in the pocket and knows when to pull it donw and run with it. I'd like to see him get drafted by a team who plans to use him as a qb in the near future... and prove all the haters wrong, lol just like last year when eveyone said VY was gonna be a bust... from bust to OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!!



he playes for OSU, they don't play top notch schools all year, so of course he looked great...........he's gonna be garbage in the nfl, and will be in the cfl in about 5 years............

Koopa
04-16-2007, 04:07 PM
Dude Vince Young has played one season.:bluelol: Lets not put him in Canton just yet.lol

why not?? ppl did it with ben roethlisberger after one season........why can't ppl talk good about vince young???

K Train
04-16-2007, 04:16 PM
yeah he's gonna be a good lifetime clip board holder..........i'm guessing you root for OSU, but troy smith is overrated garbage, he couldn't live up to his hype, except when he played the ****** *** teams they play on the reg.......... he'd be a wasted pick, because we can get another lifetime clip board holder later in the draft..........

osu sucks ***, i just like him and i hope he proves everyone wrong for giving him such a hard time all the time

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 04:17 PM
why not?? ppl did it with ben roethlisberger after one season........why can't ppl talk good about vince young???


Koopa I never stated such crazy things about Ben. I thought he played well but never said put him in Canton. Anybody that thinks a player belong in the Hall of Fame after 1 or 2 good seasons needs to just stop watching sports.lol

Koopa
04-16-2007, 04:26 PM
osu sucks ***, i just like him and i hope he proves everyone wrong for giving him such a hard time all the time

he won't, i watched him play a lot, to see what the hype was, and he never showed anything special, he was just a product of a system pretty much......... he played against some ****** *** schools that made him look good, he finally plays a team that actually plays big schools, and he falls apart........he will never get his chance to shine either, unless you follow cfl


Koopa I never stated such crazy things about Ben. I thought he played well but never said put him in Canton. Anybody that thinks a player belong in the Hall of Fame after 1 or 2 good seasons needs to just stop watching sports.lol

i never said you said it, however it seems everytime someone says something good about vince, you're quick to mention it was only one year............but i never see you says stuff like that for ben, when ppl talk about how good he was.............. also i don't see anyone saying he should be in the hall of fame, what i see is ppl saying he had a great year and proved everyone wrong, which he did, he single handedly put the titans on his back, and made them a contender for a playoff spot.................

K Train
04-16-2007, 04:36 PM
he won't, i watched him play a lot, to see what the hype was, and he never showed anything special, he was just a product of a system pretty much......... he played against some ****** *** schools that made him look good, he finally plays a team that actually plays big schools, and he falls apart........he will never get his chance to shine either, unless you follow cfl
.

ALL college qbs play ****** schools, thats a dumb reason to hate on a QB, top schools dont have that much to compete with unless your in the SEC. He played great against the top schools he did play like PSU, Mich, oh not to mention that week 2 massacre on #2 ranked texas.

Brady Quinn played ****** schools, Vince young played ****** schools, Matt leinart played against ****** schools. Not all college programs can compete with the OSUs, USCs, UTs of the world. Its obvious those schools recruit the best of the best and thats what they carry over to the NFL. So players like Quinn raping teams like army and navy is just warm up for what should be a decent NFL career. Smith wasnt recruited by a top school because hes a scrub, i give him a decent shot at a successful career in the NFL because ive seen him play too, hes a great QB, maybe he was just a great college QB...no one knows right now , but it wouldnt surprise me if he carried that game to the next level, especially if he goes to a decent team. if he goes to the browns like he said he wanted to, his career is as good as over, but get over the NC game, it wasnt on him, OSU was poorly prepared and outcoached. Not to mention they killed their biggest threat 7 seconds in

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 04:41 PM
he won't, i watched him play a lot, to see what the hype was, and he never showed anything special, he was just a product of a system pretty much......... he played against some ****** *** schools that made him look good, he finally plays a team that actually plays big schools, and he falls apart........he will never get his chance to shine either, unless you follow cfl



i never said you said it, however it seems everytime someone says something good about vince, you're quick to mention it was only one year............but i never see you says stuff like that for ben, when ppl talk about how good he was.............. also i don't see anyone saying he should be in the hall of fame, what i see is ppl saying he had a great year and proved everyone wrong, which he did, he single handedly put the titans on his back, and made them a contender for a playoff spot.................

Koopa, I have been highly critical of Ben on this site. I'm a Big Ben fan but I tell like it is and I think Ben needs to work on alot of areas in his game to be a better NFL QB. I'm willing to cut him some slack since he had a rough year from a health stand point. But even his first two years in the NFL he was far from a finished product as an NFL QB. I have told people before that they were crazy for taking Ben over Tom Brady when comparing NFL QB's.lol

As for Vince Young. I wouldn't call his rookie year great by any means. It was a good solid year especially for a rookie year. But some of those games the Titans won the defense did score TDs and special teams added scores as well. Vince had a game were he threw for 76 yards passing and the Titans won. To me Vince didn't single handedly win that game.:bluelol: You think I'm talking **** on Vince but I'm not. Just keeping things in perspective. I think Vince Young has a ton of potential. The sky is the limit for Vince. I'm just going to wait 5-6 more years before I call Young a great NFL QB. Same goes for Big Ben.

K Train
04-16-2007, 04:44 PM
VY did a great job at taking care of business and doing what he had to on a ****** team

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 04:49 PM
Guess who showed up at the Steelers practice facility today?

Anthony Spencer

Prior to this news some sportswriters were casting some doubt onto whether the Steelers were actually interested in Spencer because he hadn't visited with us and no visits were scheduled (to their knowledge). The man is in Pittsburgh at our practice facility right now. So their is still hope that Spencer could be "our guy"!


Purdue defensive end Anthony Spencer, the highest ranked front-seven "tweener" in this year's draft, visited the Steelers' offices on the South Side on Monday. Spencer is a 6-2 7/8, 261-pounder who led the nation in tackles for loss this season with 26.5. He also had 10.5 sacks with six batted balls. He's the latest, and perhaps the best, in a line of Purdue defensive ends who've moved to 3-4 OLB in the NFL.

The Steelers on Monday also hosted Minnesota tight end Matt Spaeth. The 6-7 1/8, 270-pounder won the John Mackey Award as the nation's best tight end after catching 47 passes for 564 yards and four touchdowns this season, in spite of missing the last two games with a severely separated right shoulder.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 04:53 PM
No shocked at all by this. I thought the Steelers should have interest in him. The guy is a good football player. I never thought he would have shot up the draft charts like this. Thats why I mentioned Spencer as a possible 2nd round pick when I started Pimp'In him.

Still don't think Spencer is worth the 15th pick and I'm sticking to that.

K Train
04-16-2007, 04:54 PM
6-7 270??? thats a truck lol.

i think Spencer has demarcus ware written all over him :2cents:

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 04:56 PM
6-7 270??? thats a truck lol.

i think Spencer has demarcus ware written all over him :2cents:

Train you mis read the article bro. Spencer is 6'2 and 261. The TE the Steelers brought in for a visit also is 6-7, 270.

K Train
04-16-2007, 04:58 PM
Train you mis read the article bro. Spencer is 6'2 and 261. The TE the Steelers brought in for a visit also is 6-7, 270.

oh lol i know that, i was just pointing out the truck we brought in for TE....trust me i know everything about spencer by now lol

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 05:03 PM
oh lol i know that, i was just pointing out the truck we brought in for TE....trust me i know everything about spencer by now lol

My bad I miss understood what you meant by your post.:bigthumb: Yea that TE is a truck.

As for Spencer being the next DeMarcus Ware? That would be awesome.:bigthumb: I think Spencer has potential thats for sure. I would be happy with Spencer just becoming the next Steelers success of a DE converted to OLB.

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 05:04 PM
No shocked at all by this. I thought the Steelers should have interest in him. The guy is a good football player. I never thought he would have shot up the draft charts like this. Thats why I mentioned Spencer as a possible 2nd round pick when I started Pimp'In him.

Still don't think Spencer is worth the 15th pick and I'm sticking to that.

Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.......199th. Marques Colston was a 7th rounder last year pick 252. People put far too much value on what some of the so-called experts grade these guys at. Spencer could turn out to be one of this years drafts biggest steals at 15. Someone else drafted ahead of him could be one of this years biggest busts. If our front office feels that he is the best pass rushing threat in this years draft they should take him regardless of where the scouts have him graded. IMO

Black@Gold Forever32
04-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.......199th. Marques Colston was a 7th rounder last year pick 252. People put far too much value on what some of the so-called experts grade these guys at. Spencer could turn out to be one of this years drafts biggest steals at 15. Someone else drafted ahead of him could be one of this years biggest busts. If our front office feels that he is the best pass rushing threat in this years draft they should take him regardless of where the scouts have him graded. IMO

You don't understand what I'm saying. I think Spencer will be there at 20-25. Why not trade down and then draft him at 20-25? You can pick up and extra 2nd or 3rd round pick by trading down and still draft Spencer.

As for the scouts. **** the scouts and I could care less what they ****ing think anyway.:bluelol: This is what I think. I can form my own ****ing opinion thank you and **** off.:bluelol:

BlackGold4vr
04-16-2007, 05:12 PM
You don't understand what I'm saying. I think Spencer will be there at 20-25. Why not trade down and then draft him at 20-25? You can pick up and extra 2nd or 3rd round pick by trading down and still draft Spencer.

As for the scouts. **** the scouts and I could care less what they ****ing think anyway.:bluelol: This is what I think. I can form my own ****ing opinion thank you and **** off.:bluelol:

You are right and if that's who they really want, we may see them do that on draft day. It's also possible that the Steelers could trade up with a team like Houston (who is already rumored to be shopping their 10th spot) and grab Patrick Willis who is projected to be a top 15 pick. We have 9 picks and packaging a couple picks to move up for someone is a distinct possibility.

Koopa
04-16-2007, 05:15 PM
ALL college qbs play ****** schools, thats a dumb reason to hate on a QB, top schools dont have that much to compete with unless your in the SEC. He played great against the top schools he did play like PSU, Mich, oh not to mention that week 2 massacre on #2 ranked texas.

Brady Quinn played ****** schools, Vince young played ****** schools, Matt leinart played against ****** schools. Not all college programs can compete with the OSUs, USCs, UTs of the world. Its obvious those schools recruit the best of the best and thats what they carry over to the NFL. So players like Quinn raping teams like army and navy is just warm up for what should be a decent NFL career. Smith wasnt recruited by a top school because hes a scrub, i give him a decent shot at a successful career in the NFL because ive seen him play too, hes a great QB, maybe he was just a great college QB...no one knows right now , but it wouldnt surprise me if he carried that game to the next level, especially if he goes to a decent team. if he goes to the browns like he said he wanted to, his career is as good as over, but get over the NC game, it wasnt on him, OSU was poorly prepared and outcoached. Not to mention they killed their biggest threat 7 seconds in


but he played ****** schools way more often then not, vince at least played well against top notch schools.........quinn is a fag so **** him

i guarantee you, troy will never get a chance to prove anyone wrong, because he isn't nothing more then a good college qb and that's it, he should've pulled a charlie ward and go to the nba, cause he has no future in the nfl

also where do you get that if he goes to a good team he'll be good?? wtf??? how??? if he's goes to a good team, they are obvioulsy set at qb, and he will never get a chance.........the only way he ever starts on the reg is if he goes to the browns or raiders...............there's just no room for him in the league, all the good teams are set at qb for at least 8 more years...............

okiesteeler
04-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Not wanting to stir it back up but I think it would be a mistake to take Troy Smith, not that he is not a good (or great) college QB. But he is not going to be playing for us anytime soon, and that is money that would be wasted, as he would be looking to go to another time so he could get his opportunity to start and the Steelers would be out money that they could use for someone who would be producing on the field instead of holding clipboards or picking up jock straps off the locker room floor

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 05:28 PM
but he played ****** schools way more often then not, vince at least played well against top notch schools.........quinn is a fag so **** him

i guarantee you, troy will never get a chance to prove anyone wrong, because he isn't nothing more then a good college qb and that's it, he should've pulled a charlie ward and go to the nba, cause he has no future in the nfl

also where do you get that if he goes to a good team he'll be good?? wtf??? how??? if he's goes to a good team, they are obvioulsy set at qb, and he will never get a chance.........the only way he ever starts on the reg is if he goes to the browns or raiders...............there's just no room for him in the league, all the good teams are set at qb for at least 8 more years...............

dude wtf are you basing all this on!?!?!? Is this just a personal rant or do you have something to back this up??? My point is why is it Troy Smith being bashed??? Why not Brady Quinn who lost every big time college game he played in. its kind obvious wy people dont bash russell in my opinion. The guy had 2 bad games in his career one against the gators in the national championship and one in 05' against the eventual #2 nittany lions. Atleast some poeple are giving reasons, like hes small (which is proven to be bullsh*t), and some say he plays for a over-rated school... ok whatever i hate everything that is ohio but to say OSU isnt a perenial powerhouse is a joke! What are you basing your argument on!?!?

K Train
04-16-2007, 05:35 PM
also where do you get that if he goes to a good team he'll be good?? wtf??? how??? if he's goes to a good team, they are obvioulsy set at qb, and he will never get a chance.........the only way he ever starts on the reg is if he goes to the browns or raiders...............there's just no room for him in the league, all the good teams are set at qb for at least 8 more years...............

im talking like cutler and ben both went to good teams, they started early but they werent supposed to. lets say he went to the eagles who have a solid team, he might have a chance to play the next time mcnabb takes his week 8 vacation to IR...or even a few years down the road. I dont mean he goes to the colts now and plays next year. He could end up being a good project for teams to have, i dont mean to sound all over his dick because really i dont care, he might be a career clip board holder or a AFL/CFL legend someday....but im gonna give him the benefit of a doubt until he proves to me hes not gonna be ****

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 05:42 PM
im talking like cutler and ben both went to good teams, they started early but they werent supposed to. lets say he went to the eagles who have a solid team, he might have a chance to play the next time mcnabb takes his week 8 vacation to IR...or even a few years down the road. I dont mean he goes to the colts now and plays next year. He could end up being a good project for teams to have, i dont mean to sound all over his dick because really i dont care, he might be a career clip board holder or a AFL/CFL legend someday....but im gonna give him the benefit of a doubt until he proves to me hes not gonna be ****

Exactly, i mean no matter who goes to the Texans or Browns, they are gonna be sacked a record amount of times and may never be the qb they could... but say if he was to go to KC (if trent green leaves) Jacksonville (if they deal Leftwich) the Bears (Grossman starts th season they way he played last year) or the Eagles (to quote Train) to back up McNabb. He could end up being just like Ben, Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers and so on... a good qb who gets a chance to take over a play-off caliber team!!!

Koopa
04-16-2007, 06:00 PM
dude wtf are you basing all this on!?!?!? Is this just a personal rant or do you have something to back this up??? My point is why is it Troy Smith being bashed??? Why not Brady Quinn who lost every big time college game he played in. its kind obvious wy people dont bash russell in my opinion. The guy had 2 bad games in his career one against the gators in the national championship and one in 05' against the eventual #2 nittany lions. Atleast some poeple are giving reasons, like hes small (which is proven to be bullsh*t), and some say he plays for a over-rated school... ok whatever i hate everything that is ohio but to say OSU isnt a perenial powerhouse is a joke! What are you basing your argument on!?!?

if you would read right you'd see i've given reason, i'm the one that's been saying he played in a conference where it made him look great.......

and like i said in this thread, i watched him play a lot last year to see what the hype was, ppl were saying he's a vince young.........hell no he wasn't.......he played great, yeah sure, but he never played any top schools, and when he did, he couldn't even get double digit total yards...........he will never be anything in the nfl, just a great clip board holder i guess, but nothing other then that


and if you read some of my other post in this thread, you would see i ****ing hate quinn, i even called him a fag.........so i don't get what you're getting at

also, another reason i didn't bring up quinn is well, if you didn't notice, this thread had us picking troy smith, not brady quinn, so i saw no point in bringing him up.......... i think you might be having a DEE DEE DEE moment, so i guess i can forgive you for not reading everything and just running your mouth


im talking like cutler and ben both went to good teams, they started early but they werent supposed to. lets say he went to the eagles who have a solid team, he might have a chance to play the next time mcnabb takes his week 8 vacation to IR...or even a few years down the road. I dont mean he goes to the colts now and plays next year. He could end up being a good project for teams to have, i dont mean to sound all over his dick because really i dont care, he might be a career clip board holder or a AFL/CFL legend someday....but im gonna give him the benefit of a doubt until he proves to me hes not gonna be ****

well, that's impossible, the steelers where a good all around team, but sucked *** at qb, ben came in at a good time.......same for cutler, they sucked *** at qb, but where good all around, so he got to look good

i don't see any teams right now, that are contenders that need a qb to put them over the top........well one team, the dolphins, however, they need more then a qb, they need oline, and wr's.........

so you can't really compare him to ben or cutler, cause there isn't a team this year that is in that situation.......

Koopa
04-16-2007, 06:04 PM
Exactly, i mean no matter who goes to the Texans or Browns, they are gonna be sacked a record amount of times and may never be the qb they could... but say if he was to go to KC (if trent green leaves) Jacksonville (if they deal Leftwich) the Bears (Grossman starts th season they way he played last year) or the Eagles (to quote Train) to back up McNabb. He could end up being just like Ben, Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers and so on... a good qb who gets a chance to take over a play-off caliber team!!!

kc has brody coyle or some ****, so smith won't have a chance there

jags are gone stay with leftwich, and if they don't i'm sure gerard will be their man

bears will stay with grossman, rex was pretty much a rookie last year, he hadn't played more then what 3 games in a season until last year?? so he'll be fine

eagles have their main man......... and if troy goes there he'll still be just a back up that gets to play

don't compare him to tom brady ever

ben was a 1st round pick, he was a for sure starter

same for philips

so stop comparing troy smith to them.........

K Train
04-16-2007, 06:05 PM
im not trying to compare them, im just saying the situation isnt unheard of thats all

Koopa
04-16-2007, 06:08 PM
im not trying to compare them, im just saying the situation isnt unheard of thats all

i know it's not unheard of, but what i'm saying is, there is no team right now that are really in that situation.............

and ben coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith

rivers coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith

cutler coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith


troy is not a leader, as you can see in the biggest game of his life, he has never really put the buckeyes on his back like most great college players do, he was just there to rack up the stats............he will not be good in the nfl.......... he just doesn't have that it factor

okiesteeler
04-16-2007, 06:10 PM
Smith plays football in Ohio, where they dont even know what Real football is, and he WANTS to play for The brownstains, so it is obvious he does not understand football either, dont want a brownstain fan on my team

K Train
04-16-2007, 06:15 PM
and ben coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith

rivers coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith

cutler coming out of college >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troy smith



i agree with all of this, same thing with leinart and young too, young was texas, texas lived or died based on his play...but all these guys were considered top prospects for a reason. Smith is not a top prospect and i acknoweldge that, BUT i dont think hes a worthless prospect...i think hes better than stanton and all those other no name guys shooting up the boards. Smiths got nothing on ben, rivers, cutler, leinart, young...but theres also a few QBs that Smith is way better than coming out of college

Koopa
04-16-2007, 06:20 PM
i agree with all of this, same thing with leinart and young too, young was texas, texas lived or died based on his play...but all these guys were considered top prospects for a reason. Smith is not a top prospect and i acknoweldge that, BUT i dont think hes a worthless prospect...i think hes better than stanton and all those other no name guys shooting up the boards. Smiths got nothing on ben, rivers, cutler, leinart, young...but theres also a few QBs that Smith is way better than coming out of college

and that sad thing that's not saying much, this is a crazy weak qb class, and smith isn't even considered by scouts to be better then the guys you say he is.....he will never make it in the nfl........which isn't a bad thing, a lot of players don't make it...............

K Train
04-16-2007, 06:25 PM
i hear ya, but at the same time i'll beleive it when i see it...so i guess we agree to disagree and leave poor barbaro alone lol

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 06:54 PM
if you would read right you'd see i've given reason, i'm the one that's been saying he played in a conference where it made him look great.......

and like i said in this thread, i watched him play a lot last year to see what the hype was, ppl were saying he's a vince young.........hell no he wasn't.......he played great, yeah sure, but he never played any top schools, and when he did, he couldn't even get double digit total yards...........he will never be anything in the nfl, just a great clip board holder i guess, but nothing other then that


and if you read some of my other post in this thread, you would see i ****ing hate quinn, i even called him a fag.........so i don't get what you're getting at

also, another reason i didn't bring up quinn is well, if you didn't notice, this thread had us picking troy smith, not brady quinn, so i saw no point in bringing him up.......... i think you might be having a DEE DEE DEE moment, so i guess i can forgive you for not reading everything and just running your mouth



well, that's impossible, the steelers where a good all around team, but sucked *** at qb, ben came in at a good time.......same for cutler, they sucked *** at qb, but where good all around, so he got to look good

i don't see any teams right now, that are contenders that need a qb to put them over the top........well one team, the dolphins, however, they need more then a qb, they need oline, and wr's.........

so you can't really compare him to ben or cutler, cause there isn't a team this year that is in that situation.......
LOL, ok man!!! I you were told numrous times about how NO QB's play consistanly hard schedule, except the SEC which is yearly the most talented confrence. After that is the Big Ten, OSU beat 2 number 2's on the way to the BCS CHAMPIONSHIP Texas and Michigan, along with other ranked teams. so that argument of yours is in valid. You said "scouts are looking for proto-typical QB's 6'2+" and you said that NONE of the top qbs in the NFL were Troys size. Again you were proven wrong weather you wanna admit it or not i dont care, your just lying to youself. We agree that Brady Quinn is overhyped, ok you had 1 good point, the only reason i brought him up is that he WILL be drafted in the top 10! 3rd off if you wanna try to insult me get your mind right, "DEE DEE DEE"!?!?!? A-D-D which no i dont have but thanks for the diagnosis!!!
I guess i was expecting you to make a valid point instead of just being one-sided towards players you like and dont like. Maybe i gave you too much credit!!

steelcitysfinestXL
04-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Koopa, i hear what your saying... smith wont be a 1st round draft pick. But to say that he wont be anything more tha glorified back up is obsurd. I think its rediculous he wont be drafted the 2nd or 3rd qb.

DIESELMAN
04-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Smith plays football in Ohio, where they dont even know what Real football is, and he WANTS to play for The brownstains, so it is obvious he does not understand football either, dont want a brownstain fan on my team

That pretty much sums it up right there. I don't think we need a midget QB. Everyone is listing him at 6', I call bullshit on that. The cream rises to the top in college football, especially against top programs, against Fla. he was nowhere to be found. I'll take a pass on Smith, there are other QB's we could draft that have better physical tools (height and weight) to succeed in the NFL. You guys have listed a few midget QB's who have succeeded in the NFL but the list is very very short.

K Train
04-16-2007, 07:50 PM
lol he measured 6-1 at the combine, they dont lie to us at the combine lol. Im not saying we need him, or that i want him, i think it would be a steal with a fourth round comp pick though.....lol, do you consider Batch a midget QB? lol

Koopa
04-16-2007, 07:55 PM
LOL, ok man!!! I you were told numrous times about how NO QB's play consistanly hard schedule, except the SEC which is yearly the most talented confrence. After that is the Big Ten, OSU beat 2 number 2's on the way to the BCS CHAMPIONSHIP Texas and Michigan, along with other ranked teams. so that argument of yours is in valid. You said "scouts are looking for proto-typical QB's 6'2+" and you said that NONE of the top qbs in the NFL were Troys size. Again you were proven wrong weather you wanna admit it or not i dont care, your just lying to youself. We agree that Brady Quinn is overhyped, ok you had 1 good point, the only reason i brought him up is that he WILL be drafted in the top 10! 3rd off if you wanna try to insult me get your mind right, "DEE DEE DEE"!?!?!? A-D-D which no i dont have but thanks for the diagnosis!!!
I guess i was expecting you to make a valid point instead of just being one-sided towards players you like and dont like. Maybe i gave you too much credit!!


now you are putting words in my mouth so to speak........i never once said anything about proto-typical qb's...........

i never said he won't make it because of his height, height has nothing to do with being a good QB........so get your facts straight before you come to talk

so again, when i say troy will be nothing more then a back up is because.....i'm speaking off what i've seen on the field.........and he never put OSU on his back and single handedly win games.......maybe against the **** teams, but you say he beat a number 2 texas team (which is my favorite college team btw) but yet you fail to realize a few things


first- they were ranked 2 by default of being the national champions

second- we had a freshman qb starting for us, it was his second game of his career, it was his first huge game

third- we didn't have our secondary intact, Tarell Brown (our starting corner) was suspended

michigan, well since they play in the same conference, they too equal overrated.......and still troy could barely beat them


also, i called you a DEE DEE DEE, which is from a fellow half mexican carlos mencia, which has several meanings, and they way you keep getting ppls post wrongs and putting words in mouth, a DEE DEE DEE is a nice way of calling you a moron, no offense though......this thread got big pretty fast, and i guess i can see how you would confuse post with mine.......but don't let it happen again :lol:


Koopa, i hear what your saying... smith wont be a 1st round draft pick. But to say that he wont be anything more tha glorified back up is obsurd. I think its rediculous he wont be drafted the 2nd or 3rd qb.


look, this qb class is extremely weak.......none of these qb's in this draft will really make an impact on the league, maybe russell, but he's going to the raiders, so i doubt he ever accomplishes anything in the nfl