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View Full Version : Trade Hines, Troy and Faneca!



tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 05:00 PM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?

BB2W
03-10-2007, 05:03 PM
I could see trading one of them, but not all three...

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 05:13 PM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?

I don't think any team in their right mind would give up a first and a second for Alan Faneca. He is still a very good OG but he is aging and he isn't a LT.

I don't think any team would trade a first and a third for Hines Ward. Again he is aging and has battled some injuries the last few years.

If teams are dumb enough to give up that much for both Faneca and Ward then I'm all for it.

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 05:19 PM
I could see trading one of them, but not all three...i hear ya. i'd prefer to keep all 3 too. but then again i wouldve liked to see us retain porter and cowher (or grimm/wiz). we are clearly in a transition phase.

ward has a huge cap charge going into 08 (about 7 mil) and troy and fanecas market value is easilly 7 mil/ year. thats 21 mil (roughly 17% of out total cap devoted to 3 of 53 players) what happens when ben needs a new deal? are we gonna root for him to suck so we can get him cheaper? if we want him to do great and win superbowls we better be prepared to pay him in a few years.

what if trading hines meant being able to manuver to draft calvin johnson? in 4-5 years the steelers are better off with johnson than hines. what if trading faneca could give us levi jones?

what if keeping polamalu means we cant afford a. smith in 2 years?

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 05:25 PM
I don't think any team in their right mind would give up a first and a second for Alan Faneca. He is still a very good OG but he is aging and he isn't a LT.

I don't think any team would trade a first and a third for Hines Ward. Again he is aging and has battled some injuries the last few years.

If teams are dumb enough to give up that much for both Faneca and Ward then I'm all for it.seattle gave up a FIRST for branch, when they coulda got much more productive stallworth for a 3rd. vikings and N.O. traded everything for walker, and r. williams.

theres no telling what we could do with our sb champ steeler players. i would rather atleast try and test the market than to see them just walk after this season.

i am willing to sacrifice another 8-8 year if it keeps us out of salary cap hell for the next 10 years and puts us in position to dominate the league and win 3-4 sb's in the next 10 years.

Blitzburgh55
03-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Youre on Crack

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 05:46 PM
Youre on Crackdoes that mean the rooneys are on crack too? after all, they are the ones who showed cowher, whiz, grimm, and porter the door. (not to mention rod woodson)

am i the only one who recognizes we are in a period of transition and salary cap hell is 2 years away?

Blitzburgh55
03-10-2007, 05:47 PM
does that mean the rooneys are on crack too? after all, they are the ones who showed cowher, whiz, grimm, and porter the door. (not to mention rod woodson)

am i the only one who recognizes we are in a period of transition and salary cap hell is 2 years away?

First off Cowher left by himslef
And Grimm was a fat *** pig

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 05:57 PM
First off Cowher left by himslef
And Grimm was a fat *** pigfanaca is that fat *** pigs buddy and not exactly slim himself. watch him walk through the same door cowher did, next year then.

or you can just tell me the last highest paid player at a particular position the rooneys have had.

you cant?

thats right, because the rooneys dont pay to have the highest paid player at ANY potition.

even coach.

if cowher can be replaced by a rookie, dont think that faneca cant. anyone who fails to see the obvious is on pcp.

Blitzburgh55
03-10-2007, 06:00 PM
fanaca is that fat *** pigs buddy and not exactly slim himself. watch him walk through the same door cowher did, next year then.

or you can just tell me the last highest paid player at a particular position the rooneys have had.

you cant?

thats right, because the rooneys dont pay to have the highest paid player at ANY potition.

even coach.

if cowher can be replaced by a rookie, dont think that faneca cant. anyone who fails to see the obvious is on pcp.
Fancea is good play so was Grimm but i dont either could coach thats different

DIESELMAN
03-10-2007, 06:03 PM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?

Its a good thought, its better to be the ****er then the ****ed. I'm sure Millen would give up a 1st and a 2nd for Faneca, any other GM? highly doubtful, wait a minute theres always Snyder :lol:

Koopa
03-10-2007, 06:04 PM
like 32 said, if teams are dumb enough then go for it lol

i'm not afraid of change what so ever.......hell i encourage it

while i love hines on this team he is getting older and he is getting more injury prone...... and as you said his cap hit is gonna be a lot, i doubt he'd get cut cause the rooney's would not have just signed him to that contract he got and cut him 2 years later

troy, well it seems like we not be able to keep him in the long run cause he's gonna cost a **** load that the rooneys might be to cheap to give money so might as well get a nice draft pick for it

faneca, well while he's just a left guard and those are pretty easily replaced with a first round pick........ i'd miss him though but again with his age and the fact that he seems to miss his lover grimm he's gonna be gone anyway might as well get something out of it


oh, **** grimm, i'm glad he didn't get the job..........i wouldn't have mind if whiz got the job but oh well

and most definitely **** cowher :lol: he ruined our season by not wanting to be hear and then he quit on us at the end so he can go coach somewhere else in a year

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:04 PM
seattle gave up a FIRST for branch, when they coulda got much more productive stallworth for a 3rd. vikings and N.O. traded everything for walker, and r. williams.

theres no telling what we could do with our sb champ steeler players. i would rather atleast try and test the market than to see them just walk after this season.

i am willing to sacrifice another 8-8 year if it keeps us out of salary cap hell for the next 10 years and puts us in position to dominate the league and win 3-4 sb's in the next 10 years.

Tony, I'm all for testing the market to improve the team. I just wouldn't look for any team giving up that much for both Alan Faneca and Hines Ward. Now if Faneca was a LT then maybe we could have a dancing partner. But not an OG. They're usually not as valued as OT. I think we could get a 2nd rounder for Faneca not a 1st and a 2nd.

So I do agree it would be smart to look into this but I just don't see any team giving up that much for Faneca or Ward and that includes dumbass Matt Millen.:bluelol:

I think the big reason Seattle gave up so much for Branch was they thought he was the missing piece to their Super Bowl title. Plus Branch is younger then Hines Ward.

SteelersfaninPhilly
03-10-2007, 06:05 PM
hipchest might be on to something. Faneca will be the first to go. Hines will be next. Troy will not be going anywhere though.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:06 PM
fanaca is that fat *** pigs buddy and not exactly slim himself. watch him walk through the same door cowher did, next year then.

or you can just tell me the last highest paid player at a particular position the rooneys have had.

you cant?

thats right, because the rooneys dont pay to have the highest paid player at ANY potition.

even coach.

if cowher can be replaced by a rookie, dont think that faneca cant. anyone who fails to see the obvious is on pcp.

I agree with this post totally anybody is replaceable. I just don't think we would get the value you want in return Tony. Maybe I'm wrong and it happens. Trust me I wouldn't complain.:bluelol:

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 06:07 PM
Fancea is good play so was Grimm but i dont either could coach thats different

?????

is "good play" anything like Coldplay? (40 year old virgin reference)

even that genius, troy "tub of chaw stuck in my lip" aikman couldnt understand why the cowboys would trade hershel walker, so i dont expect many mb posters to be more perceptive than a **** kickin jock.

regardless, while troy wouldve kept herschel, (and have a career about as bright as jake plummers), he is a perfect example of why jocks play, owners own, managers manage, and MB posters like us act like they can do all 3.

Blitzburgh55
03-10-2007, 06:07 PM
I dont see Hines leaving or Troy maybe Fancea but I dont see Hines going anywhere

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:08 PM
Its a good thought, its better to be the ****er then the ****ed. I'm sure Millen would give up a 1st and a 2nd for Faneca, any other GM? highly doubtful, wait a minute theres always Snyder :lol:

If Faneca was a LT then I could see getting that much in return. Hell NFL GM's would give their left nut to get a great LT.

DIESELMAN
03-10-2007, 06:17 PM
If Faneca was a LT then I could see getting that much in return. Hell NFL GM's would give their left nut to get a great LT.I know bro :lol: I figured if anyone was stupid enough to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Faneca it would be Millen. Hes such a ****in idiot and he singlehandedly brought down the Lions with all his 1st rd WR picks.

SteelersfaninPhilly
03-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Said it before, I believe Faneca has one foot out the door. Given the contracts that have been handed out in free agency to other offensive linemen. I do not see the FO giving Faneca what he wants.

Wards contract I believe counts toward the cap as follows. Corrections welcome if I'm wrong with the numbers.


2007 5.9 Mil
2008 7.45 Mil
2009 8.55 Mil

After this season watch for the steelers to apporach ward about a renegotiation. If that fails I would expect ward to go.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:19 PM
I know bro :lol: I figured if anyone was stupid enough to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Faneca it would be Millen. Hes such a ****in idiot and he singlehandedly brought down the Lions with all his 1st rd WR picks.

Oh trust me I think Matt Millen is a idiot and is probably the worst GM in the history of the NFL. But is he stupid enough to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Alan Faneca? **** it call him up now and ask him.:bluelol:

TEEMONT
03-10-2007, 06:26 PM
Troy is still the future of the defense.....if we trade him we might as well trade Ben and Willie too. Or we could just lose all of our games to get first round draft picks.....thats an even better idea........

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 06:31 PM
Tony, I'm all for testing the market to improve the team. I just wouldn't look for any team giving up that much for both Alan Faneca and Hines Ward. Now if Faneca was a LT then maybe we could have a dancing partner. But not an OG. They're usually not as valued as OT. I think we could get a 2nd rounder for Faneca not a 1st and a 2nd.

So I do agree it would be smart to look into this but I just don't see any team giving up that much for Faneca or Ward and that includes dumbass Matt Millen.:bluelol:

I think the big reason Seattle gave up so much for Branch was they thought he was the missing piece to their Super Bowl title. Plus Branch is younger then Hines Ward.seattle got raped with no vaseline. a 35 year old hines will always be better than a 28 year old branch. branch wont amount to **** w/o brady and the pats system, plus he still hasnt played a full season because he is weak and brittle. hines on the other hand woulda led the league in receptions if it werent for marvin harrisons record shattering year. hines barely ever misses a game due to injury and he never had tom brady, yet still found success with multiple qb's including kordell and maddox.

in todays market, average guards are making as much as the top LT's. what used to be the rule in the past, has changed. seattle, arizona, and detroit would all love to have faneca. you gotta strike while the iron is hot.

now i wont pretend to know what the trade value is for all of our players (troy will/should stay) because it is so subjective and always will change. who thought the saints would trade their whole draft to move up and draft rickey williams????

if colbert doesnt even try or explore the possible options that are out there, he deserves to be fired for not looking out for the best interests of his team.

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 06:34 PM
Troy is still the future of the defense.....if we trade him we might as well trade Ben and Willie too. Or we could just lose all of our games to get first round draft picks.....thats an even better idea........or we can just show our sb winning HC the door along with the o-coord, asst. HC, and defensive leader the door.

oh wait...

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:38 PM
seattle got raped with no vaseline. a 35 year old hines will always be better than a 28 year old branch. branch wont amount to **** w/o brady and the pats system, plus he still hasnt played a full season because he is weak and brittle. hines on the other hand woulda led the league in receptions if it werent for marvin harrisons record shattering year. hines barely ever misses a game due to injury and he never had tom brady, yet still found success with multiple qb's including kordell and maddox.

in todays market, average guards are making as much as the top LT's. what used to be the rule in the past, has changed. seattle, arizona, and detroit would all love to have faneca. you gotta strike while the iron is hot.

now i wont pretend to know what the trade value is for all of our players (troy will/should stay) because it is so subjective and always will change. who thought the saints would trade their whole draft to move up and draft rickey williams????

if colbert doesnt even try or explore the possible options that are out there, he deserves to be fired for not looking out for the best interests of his team.

Dude I agree Hines Ward is better then Branch. I'm just saying I think his age would play a factor in his value in a trade.

Very true OG's value has sky rocketed and with Faneca already being an unhappy camper with the Tomlin hired and Porter being cut. I think trading Fancea would be a wise move. I just don't see the 1st and 2nd you think the Steelers could get. Hopefully I'm wrong and if they do trade Faneca they get that 1st and 2nd you suggested.

I agree Colbert must explore all options to improve the Steelers.

TEEMONT
03-10-2007, 06:41 PM
Oh...we could also draft Anthon Spencere...and then trade him too. Why even bother fielding a team for the nxt two years? We need to avoid this salary cap hell, so let's just give up on fielding a competitive team for the next few years. We should trade Aaron Smith too.

TEEMONT
03-10-2007, 06:43 PM
or we can just show our sb winning HC the door along with the o-coord, asst. HC, and defensive leader the door.

oh wait...

Oh....we showed him the door? You mean he didn't retire, he was fired? Who cares if they didn't offer him top coach money, he didn't deserve it.

House of Steel
03-10-2007, 06:43 PM
Tony, I turly enjoy your sense of thinking and you are absolutely right on the whole aspect of what the Steelers might be up too. Faneca is a cap nightmare for the future, Ward is going to be asked to reduce his pay, and Troy is going to be a very vital piece on our defense in the future, want to try and maximize the money to keep him here in Pittsburgh. I would be all for the idea of trading Faneca and Ward as much I love Hines, he is getting older and more fragile, so why not get some compensation out of both of them while they head toward the end of their careers. Make sense to me for the future of the team. We have a Franchise QB, we got ourselves a Road Runner at RB, now we need to get younger at defensively as well as offensive line and we will be set for awhile. This whole talk is making so much sense.

Steelersfan
03-10-2007, 06:46 PM
This is just the nature of FA and the salary cap guys. Teams try and keep the players they think are key to them winning and then draft as well as maybe sign a few key FA's to fill the holes. The teams that do it the best will be the teams that are in the playoffs at the end of the year.
We have a good core of players. Now we just need to fill those holes the best we can. No way would I trade all three of them.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:46 PM
I would look into trading Faneca and Ward House. But not Troy.

Its already been stated by Faneca that he doesn't like the new direction of the team. So looking to move him would be wise.

I would look to move Ward to (even though he is my favorite Steeler) why he still has value.

I just don't think the Steelers could get the value in return that Tony thinks but I could be wrong. Hopefully if they trade both the Steelers can get the value that Tony thinks they can get.

Steelersfan
03-10-2007, 06:47 PM
And why is Ward all of a sudden "fragile"? This is the first time in his career he has really missed time because of an injury.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 06:49 PM
And why is Ward all of a sudden "fragile"? This is the first time in his career he has really missed time because of an injury.

Well he has battled that hamstring injury the last two seasons. Then he had that knee injury to last year. I don't think he is "fragile" but his health issues is something to keep an eye on.

House of Steel
03-10-2007, 06:52 PM
I never said to trade Troy, HELL NO!!! I would want to pay him the market share he deserves. I would NEVER trade Troy for anything. He is the best in the business at Strong Safety.

Steelersfan
03-10-2007, 06:54 PM
Well he has battled that hamstring injury the last two seasons. Then he had that knee injury to last year. I don't think he is "fragile" but his health issues is something to keep an eye on.

That's understandable but we have had about every player on the team hurt at one time or another. At least the guys that have been around and playing all the time. Ben, Ward, Porter, Troy, our OL have all missed a lot of games over the past year.
And Hines is by far the best WR we have. I like Holmes and I think he'll be good but he still is another year away IMO. It's sad to say but the one guy we could trade and not take a big hit is Troy. We actually have some depth there and some pretty good players. We don't at OL or WR. Not to mention we would get more out of Troy than the other two.

Just my :2cents: if you want to talk about who to trade.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 07:12 PM
That's understandable but we have had about every player on the team hurt at one time or another. At least the guys that have been around and playing all the time. Ben, Ward, Porter, Troy, our OL have all missed a lot of games over the past year.
And Hines is by far the best WR we have. I like Holmes and I think he'll be good but he still is another year away IMO. It's sad to say but the one guy we could trade and not take a big hit is Troy. We actually have some depth there and some pretty good players. We don't at OL or WR. Not to mention we would get more out of Troy than the other two.

Just my :2cents: if you want to talk about who to trade.

SF I'm not saying we trade Hines Ward but if a team was willing to give us a first and third for Hines Ward like Tony suggested then I think we would to make that trade. Thats all I'm trying to say.

Steelersfan
03-10-2007, 07:14 PM
I wasn't pointing you out or anything 32!....lol Was just stating my opinion is all. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 07:16 PM
I wasn't pointing you out or anything 32!....lol Was just stating my opinion is all. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Dude I'm not mad or anything just talkin Pigskin with you SF. I didn't think you pointed me out. The problem is these damn computer screens that lead to miss understandings.:bluelol:

Everything is cool bro.:tt02:

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 07:18 PM
I would look into trading Faneca and Ward House. But not Troy.

Its already been stated by Faneca that he doesn't like the new direction of the team. So looking to move him would be wise.

I would look to move Ward to (even though he is my favorite Steeler) why he still has value.

I just don't think the Steelers could get the value in return that Tony thinks but I could be wrong. Hopefully if they trade both the Steelers can get the value that Tony thinks they can get.
again, i dont know what open market trade value is for any of our players, but then neither does 32 gm's in the nfl.

like they say...."one mans trash is another mans treasure"

after hutchinson signed a $49 mil deal last year, all those "in the know" said we wouldnt see a guard get that kinda deal for years to come. and what do you know? this year scrubs and busts like leonard davis are cashing in on those types of deals.

we probably cant turn faneca into 2 high picks but i bet you if the patriots had him plus all of their dumb luck they could swindle some team out of 3 1st rounders for him.

K Train
03-10-2007, 07:19 PM
i think i'd be opposed to trade troy under any circumstances, if we could get great compensation for the other 2 then so be it, but why get rid of 3 of your best players and force yourself to rebuild, you want to get the value out of the guys, dont take any less than what they are worth. Troy is to good to give away imo

Steelerlyn
03-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Oh trust me I think Matt Millen is a idiot and is probably the worst GM in the history of the NFL. But is he stupid enough to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Alan Faneca? **** it call him up now and ask him.:bluelol:

I would have to disagree with the namecalling here. Anyone who holds a 72-27 win loss record and makes 5 million a year and has managed to keep his job is far from an idiot.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-10-2007, 07:23 PM
again, i dont know what open market trade value is for any of our players, but then neither does 32 gm's in the nfl.

like they say...."one mans trash is another mans treasure"

after hutchinson signed a $49 mil deal last year, all those "in the know" said we wouldnt see a guard get that kinda deal for years to come. and what do you know? this year scrubs and busts like leonard davis are cashing in on those types of deals.

we probably cant turn faneca into 2 high picks but i bet you if the patriots had him plus all of their dumb luck they could swindle some team out of 3 1st rounders for him.

Tony I can't say that your wrong for sure. Its just in my opinion that I don't think the Steelers can get that much in return for both Faneca or Ward. Now if they trade both and get in return what you suggested then I will be very happy. I agree totally the Steelers have to explore all options for the future of the franchise.

Funny about the Pats and you're right some team would have over paid if Faneca was a Pat. I agree with that since the Hawks were stupid enough to give up that much for Branch.:bluelol:

I think if Alan Fancea was 26 instead of 31 then I could see alot of high value in return for him. Same thing for Hines Ward. I just age is a factor.

Hey I say **** it call Millen right now and see if he will give up a 1st and 2nd for Alan Faneca. Hey Colbert used to work for the Lions organization so maybe he can swindle his former employer.:bluelol:

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 07:26 PM
Oh....we showed him the door? You mean he didn't retire, he was fired? Who cares if they didn't offer him top coach money, he didn't deserve it.we can get into the semantics of the phrase "showing someone the door".

obviously you think that means firing somebody.

i think it means showing somebody the door, and it is THEIR decision to walk out of it. i didnt say they KICKED cowher out the door. they just showed him where it was and he CHOSE to walk.

TEEMONT
03-10-2007, 07:38 PM
eh...u say tomato I say tomato.....(doesn't have the same effect when you type it lol)

BlitzburghRockCity
03-11-2007, 12:17 AM
does that mean the rooneys are on crack too? after all, they are the ones who showed cowher, whiz, grimm, and porter the door. (not to mention rod woodson)

am i the only one who recognizes we are in a period of transition and salary cap hell is 2 years away?

wow I came into this thread late...

Dude really, salary cap hell is not 2 years away...this is the way we run our team, just under cap every single year. We never have alot of cap room because we use every cent possible to sign the guys we need. We're always on the edge of cap space but we get it down by working our magic with the contract numbers to sign all the guys we need.

I personally see no reason why we'd be in hell in 2 more years as opposed to any other years. We're not in a rebuilding process, we have the majority of our guys under contract and the ones that are due up after 2007 we're working on now. If there's anybody I'd trust to work out cap, it the Steelers FO.

As far as trading away all those players, there is no way in hell. We are going through so much change as it is right now with player movement and new coaches that the last thing we need is release those players. I dont care what draft picks we get for them, those guys are too valuable to our success not only in the short term but in grooming our young guys to follow in their footsteps. I mean comon we're not somebody like the 49ers, Ratbirds, or the like that have tons of cap room because they dropped everyone and purge their roster every 5 years, we're better than that.


I hope :lol:

K Train
03-11-2007, 12:21 AM
everyone seems to think having alot of money is a great thing :dunno: my friends are always saying how much better the eagles are run because they have millions of dollars left over and we dont :scratch:

we never have alot of cap room and it consistantly works, our guys could sign an entire draft class with a hundred bucks lol

tony hipchest
03-11-2007, 12:29 AM
wow I came into this thread late...

Dude really, salary cap hell is not 2 years away...this is the way we run our team, just under cap every single year. We never have alot of cap room because we use every cent possible to sign the guys we need. We're always on the edge of cap space but we get it down by working our magic with the contract numbers to sign all the guys we need.

I personally see no reason why we'd be in hell in 2 more years as opposed to any other years. We're not in a rebuilding process, we have the majority of our guys under contract and the ones that are due up after 2007 we're working on now. If there's anybody I'd trust to work out cap, it the Steelers FO.

As far as trading away all those players, there is no way in hell. We are going through so much change as it is right now with player movement and new coaches that the last thing we need is release those players. I dont care what draft picks we get for them, those guys are too valuable to our success not only in the short term but in grooming our young guys to follow in their footsteps. I mean comon we're not somebody like the 49ers, Ratbirds, or the like that have tons of cap room because they dropped everyone and purge their roster every 5 years, we're better than that.


I hope :lol:just about every one of our 53 man roster has an increased cap value after o7

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07005/751393-66.stm

this link is the best summation of our cap situation going into the future:

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/arti...Salary_Cap.htm

take it for what its worth. like it or not the steelers have been backloading quite a few contracts and got several superstars they need to re-sign or lose.

tony hipchest
03-11-2007, 12:35 AM
everyone seems to think having alot of money is a great thing :dunno: l

having lots of money definitely sucks :dunno:

your friends must not be too bright. just tell them 6 sb appearances with 5 wins is greater than 2 trips to the show with no rings :yesnod:

BlitzburghRockCity
03-11-2007, 12:54 AM
Well yeah all of our guys will increase in cap value, that's how we work it. That's how we always work it. You backload contacts till the last year or 2 and by then you know if you want to keep them around so you either give them a new deal and get relief that way, or just redo their current deal and give them more money in a signing bonus for that year and then redo it the following year.

It's just status quo for us and it's worked for quite awhile. Im not saying we don't have work to do because we surely do and a lot of it in fact, but it's not like we're headed into a purge of the team and salary cap hell, atleast not IMO :)

tony hipchest
03-11-2007, 01:46 AM
Well yeah all of our guys will increase in cap value, that's how we work it. That's how we always work it. You backload contacts till the last year or 2 and by then you know if you want to keep them around so you either give them a new deal and get relief that way, or just redo their current deal and give them more money in a signing bonus for that year and then redo it the following year.

It's just status quo for us and it's worked for quite awhile. Im not saying we don't have work to do because we surely do and a lot of it in fact, but it's not like we're headed into a purge of the team and salary cap hell, atleast not IMO :)lol. while pushing all your debts into the future may be the american way its not the smart way, and definitely not the rooney way.

BlitzburghNation
03-11-2007, 01:51 AM
:popcorn:

Steelersfan
03-11-2007, 01:52 AM
lol. while pushing all your debts into the future may be the american way its not the smart way, and definitely not the rooney way.

The Rooneys have been doing that for the past 15 years. That's the reason we keep losing players like Woodson, Lloyd, Kirkland, etc. But we always seem to do pretty well each year.

tony hipchest
03-11-2007, 03:05 AM
The Rooneys have been doing that for the past 15 years. That's the reason we keep losing players like Woodson, Lloyd, Kirkland, etc. But we always seem to do pretty well each year. that is easilly recognizable. woodson, lloyd, kirkland didnt have sb rings to inflate their price.

steelers were the only team running the 3-4 which made it easy for us to pluck our next "plug in" lb's out of the 3-5th rounds.

salary cap was controlled and not through the roof like it is today.

things have changed.

those who are not ahead of the curve are gonna be left in the dust.

now im not gonna waste my time trying to change anyones mind but with ben, troy, faneca, and ward, i can guarantee the rooneys wont have 4 players eating up 1/3 of the salary cap in 2-3 years.

this may be hard to accept but it is fact.

Steelersfan
03-11-2007, 03:18 AM
that is easilly recognizable. woodson, lloyd, kirkland didnt have sb rings to inflate their price.

steelers were the only team running the 3-4 which made it easy for us to pluck our next "plug in" lb's out of the 3-5th rounds.

salary cap was controlled and not through the roof like it is today.

things have changed.

those who are not ahead of the curve are gonna be left in the dust.

now im not gonna waste my time trying to change anyones mind but with ben, troy, faneca, and ward, i can guarantee the rooneys wont have 4 players eating up 1/3 of the salary cap in 2-3 years.

this may be hard to accept but it is fact.

Well if they are in it just to collect a pay check because they won a SB then the hell with them. It's about the team and that is how fans look at it. It's not like most of these guys don't get paid well. I don't think they realize how much more they could make if they won 2,3 or 4 SB's. These guys can make tons through Nike, Adidas and the like just because they have a household name.

BlitzburghNation
03-11-2007, 03:22 AM
:popcorn: I agree Matt :popcorn:

Steelersfan
03-11-2007, 03:23 AM
:popcorn: I agree Matt :popcorn:

Ummm.....who is Matt?

BlitzburghNation
03-11-2007, 03:24 AM
Oooooooooops I met dan :lol:

BlackGold4vr
03-11-2007, 09:23 AM
That sounds like the way the Pirates do it every year! Trade away all the best players you have for prospects. That way your payroll is never too big and you can get on board with the "perpetual rebuilding program". You see they are always rebuilding because there is always some of their talent maturing and ready to deserve a pay raise......trade it away and start over! Penguins are leaving (in all likelihood), Pirates will never compete for a championship again (see above for reasons), and now you want to drag down the last remnant of a champion that the city has left? Hey, why don't we recruit local talent and play for beers? Fans could have a picnic out behind Mercy Hospital each week as we wait on the MRI's and Catscan results! Wow, what a great idea! Stay away from our team! :cursin:

Guess we shouldn't be surprised to get a post like that from someone who chooses the unibomber as his avatar!

House of Steel
03-11-2007, 10:33 AM
Brainfart there, Sam? :lol:

BlitzburghNation
03-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Brainfart there, Sam? :lol:

Must've been,where we set the clocks up ,,,,,,,,,, :lol:

SteelCityMan786
03-11-2007, 11:33 AM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!? NOT HINES OR TROY. Alan ok because he's getting up there in age.

SteelerNation
03-11-2007, 06:31 PM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?

Hey everone has thier option but you need to lay off the bong bro. for use to tade ward , troy , faneca for a frist secend and third round pick. is just nuts the steelers wont do that to hines and troy. faneca is a fat pig. i can care less where he goes. but ward and hines lmao you just made my day :hilarious:

SteelerFan87
03-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Rebuild?? You do realize this team is 2 years removed from winning the Super Bowl, right? We don't have to rebuild, we have to reload. Now, I'll break down why each trade you suggested is wrong.

Hines: Ok, Hines is getting old, and won't be a #1 WR for more than a couple years. But do you really want to trade the only dependable veteran WR we have? Sure we could draft a stud, but it will take him a year or 2 to reach his potential. We all saw how Santonio didn't look too great untill the end of the season, and he actually developed alot faster than expected. Trading Hines would leave us dangerously inexperienced at WR.

Troy: You really want to trade possibly the best, and certainly the most versatile SS in the league? In his prime? No. That's idiotic.

Faneca: I say this right now. The moment Alan Faneca stops being a Steeler is the moment we assure ourselves 1 or 2 or even possibly more losing seasons. Remember when Justin Strelzyck left? Yeah, the next few seasons our O-line sucked, and that made our whole team suck. Faneca is even better than Strelzyck. He is the anchor of the O-line. I would not be in any hurry to see him leave.

SteelersfaninPhilly
03-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Hines: Ok, Hines is getting old, and won't be a #1 WR for more than a couple years. But do you really want to trade the only dependable veteran WR we have? Sure we could draft a stud, but it will take him a year or 2 to reach his potential. We all saw how Santonio didn't look too great untill the end of the season, and he actually developed alot faster than expected. Trading Hines would leave us dangerously inexperienced at WR.


Has big cap numbers coming up. Look for a renegotation or Ward goes bye bye.





Troy: You really want to trade possibly the best, and certainly the most versatile SS in the league? In his prime? No. That's idiotic.

Troy is a steeler for life.


Faneca: I say this right now. The moment Alan Faneca stops being a Steeler is the moment we assure ourselves 1 or 2 or even possibly more losing seasons. Remember when Justin Strelzyck left? Yeah, the next few seasons our O-line sucked, and that made our whole team suck. Faneca is even better than Strelzyck. He is the anchor of the O-line. I would not be in any hurry to see him leave.




The market vaule unfortunately is sky high right now for OL I do not see the Steelers paying faneca the 7yr 49million dollar deal that seems to be the benchmark.

steelcurtaingal
03-12-2007, 08:03 AM
Rebuild?? You do realize this team is 2 years removed from winning the Super Bowl, right? We don't have to rebuild, we have to reload. Now, I'll break down why each trade you suggested is wrong.

Hines: Ok, Hines is getting old, and won't be a #1 WR for more than a couple years. But do you really want to trade the only dependable veteran WR we have? Sure we could draft a stud, but it will take him a year or 2 to reach his potential. We all saw how Santonio didn't look too great untill the end of the season, and he actually developed alot faster than expected. Trading Hines would leave us dangerously inexperienced at WR.

Troy: You really want to trade possibly the best, and certainly the most versatile SS in the league? In his prime? No. That's idiotic.

Faneca: I say this right now. The moment Alan Faneca stops being a Steeler is the moment we assure ourselves 1 or 2 or even possibly more losing seasons. Remember when Justin Strelzyck left? Yeah, the next few seasons our O-line sucked, and that made our whole team suck. Faneca is even better than Strelzyck. He is the anchor of the O-line. I would not be in any hurry to see him leave.

:plus1:
I agree with Steelerfan up here. Ward may not be the player he once was, but its his presence that we need. he is a leader,a nd a fairly good WR. Polamalu is a beast, and there is no possible way our defnse could rebuild itself in that short of an amount of time. Well, Faneca is aging, but with out him, defenders will be on Ben Roethlisberger worse than last year.

TampaSteelGirl
03-12-2007, 08:45 AM
Youre on Crack

I second that!!!!!!

BlitzburghRockCity
03-12-2007, 01:59 PM
One of the great things about being a Steeler fan is that we never find ourself in a position of having "rebuild" like so many teams do. We do a great job of keeping hungry, tough, and motivated players on our roster without allowing ourself to get too old and in salary cap purgatory.

SteelerNation
03-12-2007, 02:21 PM
I second that!!!!!!

i third that!!!!!

BlitzburghRockCity
03-12-2007, 03:21 PM
Well Tony, are you on crack ? :lol: :lol:

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 04:21 PM
What I think Tony was just trying to say is the Steelers should explore all options in improving the Steelers and to maintain them as legit contendars to go deep into the play-offs every years. Even if that means trading some of our bigger names.

I say right now don't explore trading Troy. He must be resigned and has a bright future in the NFL.

As for Hines Ward. I don't want to trade him either. But if some team would trade a 1st and a 3rd for Hines Ward then you would have to make that trade. Its very unlikely though any team would give that much up for Hines due to his age.

As for Alan Faneca the Steelers are trying to resign him and talks are not going anywhere as of yet but its still early. But Faneca already has made it known that he doesn't like the new direction of the team with the hiring of Tomlin as HC and Joey being cut. So I would make an effort to explore a trade of Faneca. I rather get something in return for him instead of letting him walk next year and get nothing in return for him. I don't see the Steelers getting a 1st and a 2nd for Alan Faneca. But anything is better then nothing.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-12-2007, 04:27 PM
It really all comes down to this, there's no way this team outright trades Troy or Hines. It's just not going to happen. We operate the salary cap as good or better than anyone else so we'll make it work with their deals.

As far as Faneca, Im hoping he'll come around in time, it's only March right now and many time talks don't go well in the beginning but the Steelers usually find a way to get it done when it's necessary. Once Faneca gets some mini camps and meetings under his belt with the new coaches hopefully that will help too.

steeltown_heroes
03-12-2007, 04:29 PM
Even though Hines is getting older, and Faneca might have one foot out the door, I don't understand why you want to get rid of vets we know can play for younger players who may or may not perform well in the NFL. Having picks is great but we lose out if they don't perform at least as good the guys we're getting rid of.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 04:31 PM
It really all comes down to this, there's no way this team outright trades Troy or Hines. It's just not going to happen. We operate the salary cap as good or better than anyone else so we'll make it work with their deals.

As far as Faneca, Im hoping he'll come around in time, it's only March right now and many time talks don't go well in the beginning but the Steelers usually find a way to get it done when it's necessary. Once Faneca gets some mini camps and meetings under his belt with the new coaches hopefully that will help too.

Dude I agree that there is noway the Steelers are going to trade Troy or Hines. My point was if some team would approach the Steelers and offer a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick for Hines Ward. Then you have to make that trade. Very unlikely though so I don't see it happening at all not with Hines Ward being in his early 30's.

As for Alan Faneca. I want him to remain a Steeler also. But he seems like a very unhappy camper right now.:bluelol: Moving him and getting something in return for might not be a bad idea if he doesn't want to remain a Steeler. Not saying this is the case Top. But the early signs are there of Alan Faneca not being happy with the Steelers new direction.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-12-2007, 05:05 PM
I agree, early signs aren't good which really sucks considering how much he's done for us and how long he's been here. Im hoping he'll change his mind and be a part of the new revolution in Pittsburgh but we'll have to wait and see.

Stairwayto7
03-12-2007, 05:09 PM
If they get rid of Troy, as a fan my entire life, I`ll be taking a year off!

BBC
03-12-2007, 08:03 PM
I read the first and last pages of the thread, sorry if this idea has already been discussed...

The Steelers were an 8-8 team last season that finished 6-2. While, yes, it was a down year, it is hardly reason to start rebuilding our team. We don't need that plethora of draft picks, this team is only a season removed of being Super Bowl champions. If Ben were healthy, this team is at the very least 9-7 and a playoff team (and at that point, who knows what would happen).

The sky isn't falling, the Steelers will be fine, we don't need to give up three of our best players for several unproven players that take time to develop.

K Train
03-12-2007, 08:44 PM
i hate reading the title of this thread lol

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Forone nobody ever said the ****ing sky was falling. Somebody brought this topic up and ****ing people discussed it. Thats the purpose of a ****ing message board.

K Train
03-12-2007, 09:20 PM
i know your not getting loud with me....

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 09:23 PM
i know your not getting loud with me....

Where you the one that suggested people were saying the sky was falling? So check a few posts up and figure it out?

K Train
03-12-2007, 09:26 PM
:dunno: :scratch:

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 09:27 PM
:dunno: :scratch:

I guess you need it spelled out for you? Check post 75 in this thread and you will get your answer.

K Train
03-12-2007, 09:32 PM
I read the first and last pages of the thread, sorry if this idea has already been discussed...

The Steelers were an 8-8 team last season that finished 6-2. While, yes, it was a down year, it is hardly reason to start rebuilding our team. We don't need that plethora of draft picks, this team is only a season removed of being Super Bowl champions. If Ben were healthy, this team is at the very least 9-7 and a playoff team (and at that point, who knows what would happen).

The sky isn't falling, the Steelers will be fine, we don't need to give up three of our best players for several unproven players that take time to develop.
sounds right on topic to me :dunno: , hes suggesting the sky isnt falling.....im confused.....

Black@Gold Forever32
03-12-2007, 09:36 PM
sounds right on topic to me :dunno: , hes suggesting the sky isnt falling.....im confused.....

I have noticed.:bluelol: If you can't figure it out then I'm not going to waste my time.

K Train
03-12-2007, 09:38 PM
:banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging:

BBC
03-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Forone nobody ever said the ****ing sky was falling. Somebody brought this topic up and ****ing people discussed it. Thats the purpose of a ****ing message board.

Who is Forone?

Exactly, the purpose of a message board is to discuss a topic...isn't that exactly what I was "****ing" doing?

When someone wants to throw away three of our top players for some draft picks, they are suggesting that the team should rebuild. We don't need that...the sky isn't falling. I never said that any poster said the sky was falling.


sounds right on topic to me :dunno: , hes suggesting the sky isnt falling.....im confused.....

Don't sweat it. B@G hates the fact that I don't wipe his butt and tell him how wonderful his posts were, so he'll take any opportunity to disagree with me that he can find. This was the first time I've seen his internet badass side...very entertaining.

K Train
03-12-2007, 10:17 PM
oh i didnt realize there was some drama here....i'll just stay out of it lol

BlitzburghRockCity
03-13-2007, 04:51 PM
i hate reading the title of this thread lol

I know it always freaks me out when I see it :lol:

tony hipchest
03-13-2007, 06:53 PM
this isnt a "the sky is falling thread". this thread should serve to open peoples eyes, especially to the downfalls of getting into bed with your favorite player.

i think polamalu resigns at market value or gets slapped with the franchise tag (which will be a bargain for the steelers and probably **** troy off). i think ward will have no choice but to do what jerome did if he wants to remain a steeler after 07.

but faneca? i laugh when people say he wants to retire a steeler and will play for a bargain rate. these fans dont know faneca, and dont realize that free agents leave despite the loyalty to their team. i dont see charger or patriot fans cry, when they have to put a rookie on the offensive line and watch him play, go to pro bowls, superbowls, instead of pissing away 3 years of their career at basememt price on the bench.

people need to quit getting so sensitive about faneca. the pats trading d. bledsoe or d. branch didnt set them back too far despite how much the fans loved him. the chargers trading away the rights to m. vick or e. manning didnt cripple them even though they were the concensus #1 player on just about every teams board. if done right, trades work and so does dumping an over priced aging player (steelers get jerome, rams trade for faulk, colts dump james)

we arent rebuilding? jerome, and porter are gone along with the head coach and half his staff, all while bringing in a completely different system that quite a few of our defensive players dont fit. haggans, and farrior are old and staring j. porters situation in the face. so people think were gonna morph into this dominant hybrid defense that nobody has ever seen before? who is gonna be our s. merriman or adalius thomas?

we are (or need to) transform to an offense that can achieve balance of a 50-50 run pass ratio. we have a good run blocking line. but it turns a great pass catcher like miller into breuner. every time we try to move to a little more balance and throw the ball more than 20 times it shows weakness. (03 and 06) blame it on injuries (03) but when we stick to a 60-40 run advantage, players like ross and vincent can come in to do fine. starks is a prototypical run blocker, but almost too big droping back in his stance for pass protection. i think it is a forgone conclusion that we will no longer be drafting players strictly for a power run, smashmouth offensive scheme, and tomlin and colbert has already said they wont be pigionholed into drafting players who are 2-4 year projectets in a 3-4

but then again, if fans ran the team, our draft last year wouldve looked like k. simpson or d. bing, martin nance, and cedric humes in our 1st 3 picks.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-13-2007, 08:19 PM
we arent rebuilding? jerome, and porter are gone along with the head coach and half his staff, all while bringing in a completely different system that quite a few of our defensive players dont fit. haggans, and farrior are old and staring j. porters situation in the face. so people think were gonna morph into this dominant hybrid defense that nobody has ever seen before? who is gonna be our s. merriman or adalius thomas?

we are (or need to) transform to an offense that can achieve balance of a 50-50 run pass ratio. we have a good run blocking line. but it turns a great pass catcher like miller into breuner. every time we try to move to a little more balance and throw the ball more than 20 times it shows weakness. (03 and 06) blame it on injuries (03) but when we stick to a 60-40 run advantage, players like ross and vincent can come in to do fine. starks is a prototypical run blocker, but almost too big droping back in his stance for pass protection. i think it is a forgone conclusion that we will no longer be drafting players strictly for a power run, smashmouth offensive scheme, and tomlin and colbert has already said they wont be pigionholed into drafting players who are 2-4 year projectets in a 3-4

When people refer to us as not needing to rebuild, it's in terms of us not having to purge half the team and all our high priced talent and sacrifice the next 4 years to losing.

Sure we're in need of some change and we'll have that change on the OL this year and at LB. We need some fresh, hungry faces on this team but not at the expense of "rebuilding" in the traditional sense. The Steelers are a close knit team, we've never had to rebuild because we keep good players in the wings ready to take over when needed. It sucks when we lose players to FA but it is part of life in the NFL. The reason I don't think we're in a rebuilding phase is because we still have a lot of talent on this team that is under contract for a good long time, and also because we're actively working with our players to try and secure them to long term deals. If we were in a rebuilding phase we wouldnt be talking to Faneca, Kreider, etc.

Massive change isn't needed to get us back in the chase for the AFC, just some tweaking here and there IMO.

tony hipchest
03-13-2007, 08:38 PM
When people refer to us as not needing to rebuild, it's in terms of us not having to purge half the team and all our high priced talent and sacrifice the next 4 years to losing.

Sure we're in need of some change and we'll have that change on the OL this year and at LB. We need some fresh, hungry faces on this team but not at the expense of "rebuilding" in the traditional sense. The Steelers are a close knit team, we've never had to rebuild because we keep good players in the wings ready to take over when needed. It sucks when we lose players to FA but it is part of life in the NFL. The reason I don't think we're in a rebuilding phase is because we still have a lot of talent on this team that is under contract for a good long time, and also because we're actively working with our players to try and secure them to long term deals. If we were in a rebuilding phase we wouldnt be talking to Faneca, Kreider, etc.

Massive change isn't needed to get us back in the chase for the AFC, just some tweaking here and there IMO."high priced talent"? joey porter is making a hellofa lot more $$$ than merriman this year/ who would you rather have?

the steelers purge high priced talent all of the time (any one remember odonnell, thigpen, and woodson leaving?) where does that equate to losing the next 4 years. atleast in my scenario were getting somethin in return.

"not rebuilding in the "traditional" sense"??? i guess letting your 15 year hc, oc, assistant hc, and emotional team leader walk is "traditional"?

we have james harrison waiting in the wings to take over. where are all these other players? whos gonna take over for faneca if he decides to walk? polamalu? what about when farrior and haggans hit the supposed wall that joey did? who stepped up for jerome? is okolbi the answer for hartings leaving? it appears not. i dont see all this talent that everybody else is hoping is there.

talking to and keeping players like faneca and kreider are a main reason cowher wasnt retained and we are basically sniffing salary cap hell. if cowher were still the coach, all his players would be extended, and we would keep getting older and older as we keep players like gildon, and staley, only to let players like vrabel walk.

BBC
03-13-2007, 08:42 PM
this isnt a "the sky is falling thread". this thread should serve to open peoples eyes, especially to the downfalls of getting into bed with your favorite player.

There's a difference between getting into bed with your favorite player, and wanting to keep the core of a team that won a Super Bowl last year. I wouldn't mind to see Faneca go, because the entire line is vastly overrated in Pittsburgh (I'll touch more on this later), but I would hate to see our only sure handed receiver, and the player that makes our defense so potent get traded for some unproven players...and don't forget that Hines is one of the biggest leaders on our team, do we really want to lose another leader?


i think polamalu resigns at market value or gets slapped with the franchise tag (which will be a bargain for the steelers and probably **** troy off). i think ward will have no choice but to do what jerome did if he wants to remain a steeler after 07.

We'll have to see what happens. Hopefully those two stay in Pittsburgh.


but faneca? i laugh when people say he wants to retire a steeler and will play for a bargain rate. these fans dont know faneca, and dont realize that free agents leave despite the loyalty to their team. i dont see charger or patriot fans cry, when they have to put a rookie on the offensive line and watch him play, go to pro bowls, superbowls, instead of pissing away 3 years of their career at basememt price on the bench.

Like I said before, I wouldn't mind seeing Alan leave. I enjoy watching the guy, because he's a hard nosed player, but he's certainly lost a step, and our line wasn't that good to begin with. Big Ben did a great job of evading the rush and making a play to bail out the lineman, but we all saw what happens with the same line blocking for an injured Ben, or a healthy Tommy Maddox. The results are disastrous.


people need to quit getting so sensitive about faneca. the pats trading d. bledsoe or d. branch didnt set them back too far despite how much the fans loved him. the chargers trading away the rights to m. vick or e. manning didnt cripple them even though they were the concensus #1 player on just about every teams board. if done right, trades work and so does dumping an over priced aging player (steelers get jerome, rams trade for faulk, colts dump james)

Again, Faneca can go. He's a player that I like, but like you said, sometimes losing a player that is well-liked needs to be done.

With that said, people wanting to hold onto Hines and Troy doesn't have as much to do with them liking the two players, but knowing that without them the Steelers lose a lot more than the Patriots did when they traded Bledsoe and Branch. They are our two most reliable players, and without them, the Steelers would be a lot worse off than an 8-8 team that finished with a 6-2 record.


we arent rebuilding? jerome, and porter are gone along with the head coach and half his staff, all while bringing in a completely different system that quite a few of our defensive players dont fit. haggans, and farrior are old and staring j. porters situation in the face. so people think were gonna morph into this dominant hybrid defense that nobody has ever seen before? who is gonna be our s. merriman or adalius thomas?

Maybe you can show me anywhere that Tomlin even entertained the thought of going into a Cover 2 (even though the Steelers ran plenty of it last season). This team isn't rebuilding. We have the same core of players as we did from XL, minus Joey Porter (Jerome was nothing more than an emotion piece since 2004). With a healthy Ben, the Steelers are a playoff team, we are not rebuilding, and there's no reason to even think about doing so.


we are (or need to) transform to an offense that can achieve balance of a 50-50 run pass ratio. we have a good run blocking line. but it turns a great pass catcher like miller into breuner. every time we try to move to a little more balance and throw the ball more than 20 times it shows weakness. (03 and 06) blame it on injuries (03) but when we stick to a 60-40 run advantage, players like ross and vincent can come in to do fine. starks is a prototypical run blocker, but almost too big droping back in his stance for pass protection. i think it is a forgone conclusion that we will no longer be drafting players strictly for a power run, smashmouth offensive scheme, and tomlin and colbert has already said they wont be pigionholed into drafting players who are 2-4 year projectets in a 3-4

So in order to become more balanced and start passing more...we should trade our only sure handed receiver, and our best leader on the offensive side of the ball?

I don't disagree that the Steelers need to become a balanced team, but I do disagree that trading away Hines Ward and Troy Polamalu is the best way to go about it. We still have 7 picks a year to mold this team into what it should be through the draft...just like the Steelers have done since the seventies. We don't need 6 first day picks to obtain the type of offensive balance that you're talking about.

tony hipchest
03-13-2007, 09:04 PM
bbc, you bring up some great points, and of course i dont want to see ward, or polamalu go. faneca for that matter. but wanting them and being able to afford them are 2 different questions. do we keep them at the expense of other good players like hampton, miller, or ben? do we mortgage our abilities to retain players like holmes and smith to make another sb run with a new head coach who has yet to prove he can coach a 3-4?

as for the trades, there wasnt a dallas fan around that wanted to see herschel walker traded. but the cowboys brass atleast had the balls to test the market and do what was best for the franchise and their capabilities of winning superbowls going into the future.

sometimes to stay ahead of the game you gotta think outside the box.

BBC
03-13-2007, 09:15 PM
bbc, you bring up some great points, and of course i dont want to see ward, or polamalu go. faneca for that matter. but wanting them and being able to afford them are 2 different questions. do we keep them at the expense of other good players like hampton, miller, or ben? do we mortgage our abilities to retain players like holmes and smith to make another sb run with a new head coach who has yet to prove he can coach a 3-4?

as for the trades, there wasnt a dallas fan around that wanted to see herschel walker traded. but the cowboys brass atleast had the balls to test the market and do what was best for the franchise and their capabilities of winning superbowls going into the future.

sometimes to stay ahead of the game you gotta think outside the box.

Good points. If it came down to it, I'd say trade them before we lost them to free agency.

With that said, it's hard to predict what's going to happen with the Steelers' cap room for the next couple of years, but if I had to guess, I'd say the Steelers would be able to keep all of the players you mentioned above, with the exception of one. If that were the case, then sure, trade Faneca for what he's worth.

Keep in mind when comparing this to the Cowboys that the Cowboys were a combined 18-45 (all losing seasons) the first 4 years Walker was in Dallas. These Steelers have gone 39-15 the last three years, so we aren't exactly in the same turmoil that the Cowboys were in at that point.

I do see what you're saying though, but I wouldn't jump on the wagon of trading away Troy, Hines, and Alan unless it became an absolute last resort as far as cap room and the team's record goes. At this point, I don't think the Steelers are at that last resort, but a couple of losing seasons the next couple of years, and they very well could be.

BlitzburghNation
03-13-2007, 09:18 PM
:popcorn:

steelcurtaingal
03-14-2007, 09:55 AM
:buttkick: :popcorn:

BlitzburghRockCity
03-14-2007, 05:38 PM
We're run so close to the cap every year that we should be used to this by now, its just that with all the new deals that our players got years ago, you'd think they would have tried to take some of the heat off the 2008 off season, last year with reworking these players deals, or atleast making the contracts as such so we don't have so many hit at one time.

SteelerNation
03-15-2007, 12:41 AM
bbc, you bring up some great points, and of course i dont want to see ward, or polamalu go. faneca for that matter. but wanting them and being able to afford them are 2 different questions. do we keep them at the expense of other good players like hampton, miller, or ben? do we mortgage our abilities to retain players like holmes and smith to make another sb run with a new head coach who has yet to prove he can coach a 3-4?

as for the trades, there wasnt a dallas fan around that wanted to see herschel walker traded. but the cowboys brass atleast had the balls to test the market and do what was best for the franchise and their capabilities of winning superbowls going into the future.

sometimes to stay ahead of the game you gotta think outside the box.

dude as much as i hate bashing a thread just drop the hole trade ward troy ok its dumb stuiped and idiotic to even think of something like that... thats like me saying last year O lets trade big ben for a draft pick pfff. screw that **** ill stick to BIG BEn over a first round draft pick anyday.! now ofcouse u dident say lets trade big ben so dont take it im bashing u for that im bashing u cause plain and simply this is a dumd *** thread. but dont worry bro. i was there with u i made made some stuiped ones and once you lay off the bong and crackpipe you will be all good. ! :banana:

tony hipchest
03-15-2007, 12:49 AM
dude as much as i hate bashing a thread just drop the hole trade ward troy ok its dumb stuiped and idiotic to even think of something like that... thats like me saying last year O lets trade big ben for a draft pick pfff. screw that **** ill stick to BIG BEn over a first round draft pick anyday.! now ofcouse u dident say lets trade big ben so dont take it im bashing u for that im bashing u cause plain and simply this is a dumd *** thread. but dont worry bro. i was there with u i made made some stuiped ones and once you lay off the bong and crackpipe you will be all good. ! :banana::scratch:

interpreter please? :dunno:

Captcoolhand
03-15-2007, 12:51 AM
REPEAT....I'm not going to bother reading this whole thread but even if what was said to start this thread happens, Where would the money come from to sign all these 1st rnd draft picks:dunno: just my :2cents:

jayson_wv
03-15-2007, 02:33 AM
hines ward will retire a steeler, he's a "legend" now, he's the new jerome bettis, the rooney's are very loyal. i would be baffled if they would move him anywhere. trading polamalu would be retarded, u can not find a better safety in the league. i'd pay him whatever, he's not a selfish guy either. faneca ehh, we should seriouisly shop him around. wow could i see faneca in a place like arizona...

BBC
03-15-2007, 07:19 AM
its dumb stuiped and idiotic

Oh the irony.

House of Steel
03-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Oh the irony.

You can definitely say that again. That rookie needs to learn to use the spell check and often. He is annoying at his best. :clap: :popcorn:

tony hipchest
03-15-2007, 03:46 PM
REPEAT....I'm not going to bother reading this whole thread but even if what was said to start this thread happens, Where would the money come from to sign all these 1st rnd draft picks:dunno: just my :2cents:ok. this ones easy. by hypothetically getting rid of fanecas, polamalus, and wards cap hit and salaries there would be plenty of money to sign 4 1st rounders. rookie contracts are almost always the minimum base salary with the signing bonus spread out throughout the life of the contract. this isnt my opinion, it is verifiable fact:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07005/751393-66.stm

07 cap charges:
faneca- 6,122,750
ward -- 5,918,000
troy----1,635,200
_______________
total--13,675,950

now look at our last 4 1st round draftpicks 07 cap charges
troy-----1,635,200
holmes--1,250,000
miller----1,380,000
ben-----2,276,000
_________________
total-6,541,200

lets look at 08 projections if faneca and troy are given fair market value deals
ward---7,450,000
faneca-7,500,000
troy----6,000,000
_________________
total- 20,550,000

so the real question is where all this money will come from to pay 3 players almost 20% of the alloted salary cap in 08? restructuring deals and pushing more money into the future isnt the answer. its never gonna happen, the rooneys arent that stupid to mortgage the future. hines 09 cap charge is already 8.5 million. here are some other outrageous cap charges we have pushed off into 08:

hampton 5,543,750
i. taylor- 5,740,000
m. smith-6,645,000
a. smith -6,860,000
w. parker-4,087,500
farrior----4,498,750
keisel----4,072,500
__________________
total 32,948,750 + 20,550,000 = 53,498,750

and we expect to resign ben?????? 11 players eating up almost half the cap means all the rest (players like holmes, a. smith, any good linemen will all have to play for about a million dollars a year)

TEEMONT
03-15-2007, 03:56 PM
seriously though...who cares abotu 08 right now? I don't....I'm more worried about '07. Troy has to be re-signed.....without a doubt, I don't care. Cut Ward and Faneca, even though I'll be pissed about Faneca, I'll get over it.

SteelersfaninPhilly
03-15-2007, 04:29 PM
ok. this ones easy. by hypothetically getting rid of fanecas, polamalus, and wards cap hit and salaries there would be plenty of money to sign 4 1st rounders. rookie contracts are almost always the minimum base salary with the signing bonus spread out throughout the life of the contract. this isnt my opinion, it is verifiable fact:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07005/751393-66.stm

07 cap charges:
faneca- 6,122,750
ward -- 5,918,000
troy----1,635,200
_______________
total--13,675,950

now look at our last 4 1st round draftpicks 07 cap charges
troy-----1,635,200
holmes--1,250,000
miller----1,380,000
ben-----2,276,000
_________________
total-6,541,200

lets look at 08 projections if faneca and troy are given fair market value deals
ward---7,450,000
faneca-7,500,000
troy----6,000,000
_________________
total- 20,550,000

so the real question is where all this money will come from to pay 3 players almost 20% of the alloted salary cap in 08? restructuring deals and pushing more money into the future isnt the answer. its never gonna happen, the rooneys arent that stupid to mortgage the future. hines 09 cap charge is already 8.5 million. here are some other outrageous cap charges we have pushed off into 08:

hampton 5,543,750
i. taylor- 5,740,000
m. smith-6,645,000
a. smith -6,860,000
w. parker-4,087,500
farrior----4,498,750
keisel----4,072,500
__________________
total 32,948,750 + 20,550,000 = 53,498,750

and we expect to resign ben?????? 11 players eating up almost half the cap means all the rest (players like holmes, a. smith, any good linemen will all have to play for about a million dollars a year)

Fancea has one foot out the door, ward barriing a restructing will follow. Also you do not know how much the salary cap will rise.

tony hipchest
03-15-2007, 06:05 PM
seriously though...who cares abotu 08 right now? I don't....I'm more worried about '07. Troy has to be re-signed.....without a doubt, I don't care. Cut Ward and Faneca, even though I'll be pissed about Faneca, I'll get over it.seriously?

1) the rooneys and entire organization
2) all the players and their agents
3) die hard football freaks
4) steelerfans who dont want to see players like ben and troy not be retained.
5) steelerfans who dont want to see the next 5 seasons after 08, play out like the previous 5 seasons did for the titans and 49ers (bottom feeders)

as for me... im worried about 07 too. what if hines wards hamstring problems linger? what if polamalu has a few more concussions? what if hartings slowing down a bit last year was a sign of things to come? what if faneca and troy go into the season next year knowing its their final season with the steelers and turn in a performance like cowher did in his final season? their market value is already set, regardless of how next season goes. leonard davis didnt have a great year last year and that didnt hurt his market value and cashing in on a $50 million pay day. regardless of troys numbers he will be the hottest free agent in 08. nothing can stop them from cashing in on a HUGE payday that will have them set for life....

except injury of course. id hate to see them play to not get injured.

tony hipchest
03-15-2007, 06:20 PM
Fancea has one foot out the door, ward barriing a restructing will follow. Also you do not know how much the salary cap will rise.actually ive seen the figures on how much the salary cap is set to rise the next few years, and its not that much. i think its around 113-115 mil next year and then it max's out at about 120 mil in the next 2-3 years.

its not that much and it really does nothing to solve our problems. the cap rose from 102 to 109 this year and we still had to dump porter and push a. smiths money into the future to get under. when smith is kimo's age his cap hit is gonna be HUGE!

plus our salary cap isnt even 109 mil this year. it is actually 106 mil due to adjusted bonuses:


SALARY-CAP ADJUSTMENTS
Finally, the salary-cap adjustments have been made and teams know how much space they have. The salary cap was set at $109 million per team but adjustments for each team had to be made for incentives earned and not earned.

If a team had been charged in the 2006 salary cap for a likely-to-be-earned incentive and the player never earned that incentive, then the club gets the salary-cap space back in 2007. With that in mind, the teams with the most adjusted space are Minnesota ($118 million), Kansas City ($117.5 million), Jacksonville ($117.5 million), New Orleans ($115.5 million), and Cleveland ($115.4 million).

On the other side of the coin, teams that had not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that didn't count against the 2006 cap but were earned by players during the 2006 season adjusts the 2007 cap down from $109 million. Teams seeing their cap space shrink include Tennessee ($105.4 million), the Jets ($105.8 million), Miami ($106.3 million), Pittsburgh ($106.3 million), and San Diego ($106.4 million).

It's not a bad thing, especially if a player produced more than expected. However, it does take upward of $4 million of the 2007 space away from a team's effort to compete this season.


the league will not bail us out of our bad spending habits. we were lucky to win the sb in 05 but there is a price to pay. i dont know about you all, but i dont want to pay the same price tampa bay did to win it all in 02, or the ravens did in 00. i'd much rather go the route of the patriots or cowboys who had the balls to make a trade on a veteran or 2 and set themselves up to be at the top for quite a few years.

BBC
03-15-2007, 06:23 PM
seriously though...who cares abotu 08 right now? I don't....I'm more worried about '07. Troy has to be re-signed.....without a doubt, I don't care. Cut Ward and Faneca, even though I'll be pissed about Faneca, I'll get over it.

That's what the guy two feet away from the edge of the cliff said too.

"I'm only worried about my next step, who cares about the one after that?"

Sure, 2007 may be more important right now, but don't overlook what impact ignoring a problem like cap room could cause.

SteelerFan87
03-15-2007, 08:40 PM
But all of this is just thinking in terms of money. You have no idea if the 4 rookies you get to replace Troy, Hines, and Faneca will be as good, or if they will be a bust. That's why the Rooney's have tended to re-sign players as long as it's worth it, and don't usually get rid of guys until they are fairly certain they have a good enough replacement ready to step in.

tony hipchest
03-15-2007, 10:18 PM
But all of this is just thinking in terms of money. You have no idea if the 4 rookies you get to replace Troy, Hines, and Faneca will be as good, or if they will be a bust. That's why the Rooney's have tended to re-sign players as long as it's worth it, and don't usually get rid of guys until they are fairly certain they have a good enough replacement ready to step in.thats a valid point, but if our coaches cant do anything with players like
levi jones
laron landry
quentin moses and
paul poslunzky
then they have no business coaching in the nfl and need to be taken out and shot.

tony hipchest
03-21-2007, 07:20 PM
so has anyone softened their stance on trading faneca? i see alot more people a bit more resigned to the fact that faneca is probably gone anyways. atlenta scored a ransom by trading an untested back up qb for 2 2nd rounders and moving up 2 spots in the 1st 10 picks in the draft. that is huge!

faneca must be worth more than that right? even with that low ball deal we could easilly land baylock from UT to immediately replace faneca.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-21-2007, 07:23 PM
so has anyone softened their stance on trading faneca? i see alot more people a bit more resigned to the fact that faneca is probably gone anyways. atlenta scored a ransom by trading an untested back up qb for 2 2nd rounders and moving up 2 spots in the 1st 10 picks in the draft. that is huge!

faneca must be worth more than that right? even with that low ball deal we could easilly land baylock from UT to immediately replace faneca.

Good point on the Schaub trade Tony. But don't you think the fact that Schaub is so young and a QB is why the Falcons recieved that much value in return?

But I hope if the Steelers do trade Faneca they get that kind of value in return. Thats would be sweet.

House of Steel
03-21-2007, 07:23 PM
Faneca could be traded for a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder for next year's draft and a player to be determine, a decent one. I wouldn't be surprise one bit if we see a trade happen on draft day to boost our chances of drafting who and what we need.

kgreen
03-21-2007, 07:24 PM
so has anyone softened their stance on trading faneca? i see alot more people a bit more resigned to the fact that faneca is probably gone anyways. atlenta scored a ransom by trading an untested back up qb for 2 2nd rounders and moving up 2 spots in the 1st 10 picks in the draft. that is huge!

faneca must be worth more than that right? even with that low ball deal we could easilly land baylock from UT to immediately replace faneca.

Yeah maybe but we can't let too much leadership go. I mean Peezy, Bus, Cowher AND Faneca that just seems to be too much. I think we need to keep Faneca.
I mean he is still the anchor on that line is he not?:helmet:

Stairwayto7
03-21-2007, 07:30 PM
so has anyone softened their stance on trading faneca? i see alot more people a bit more resigned to the fact that faneca is probably gone anyways. atlenta scored a ransom by trading an untested back up qb for 2 2nd rounders and moving up 2 spots in the 1st 10 picks in the draft. that is huge!

faneca must be worth more than that right? even with that low ball deal we could easilly land baylock from UT to immediately replace faneca.

If it seems he is going to be stubborn anyway, Then see what we can get, but I sure hate to see a potential HOF`er leave this a way!

tony hipchest
03-21-2007, 07:40 PM
Yeah maybe but we can't let too much leadership go. I mean Peezy, Bus, Cowher AND Faneca that just seems to be too much. I think we need to keep Faneca.
I mean he is still the anchor on that line is he not?:helmet:i hear ya, but other than the bus, these are all the rooneys decisions. we are in a period of transition and TOMLIN is the new leader. if they didnt feel confident in his capabilities to lead men, ALL MEN, they wouldnt have made the switch or let some of these players go.

how much leadership is faneca showing not reporting to camp with the qb who got abused last season?

cedric wilson could be cut, or lose his starting job. hes there
willie parker isnt paid as a top 15 back. hes there
ike taylor was benched last year. hes there

tony hipchest
03-21-2007, 07:49 PM
Good point on the Schaub trade Tony. But don't you think the fact that Schaub is so young and a QB is why the Falcons recieved that much value in return?

But I hope if the Steelers do trade Faneca they get that kind of value in return. Thats would be sweet.if i was fanecas agent, i could easilly make the case that faneca is lower risk and more valuable to a team than shaub:

faneca:

multiple pro bowls
sb champ
multiple starts
regarded as top 2 of his position
average guards are now making more $ than average qb's

shaub:

6td's/6int's
70 career passer rating
not proven
a risky gamble

the texans now desperately need OL help and now have the #10 pick in the draft (i assume they are targetting levi brown)

who helps them more next year brown or faneca. i would say the texans might want to consider giving us their #10 pick to get some immediate protection for their new franchise qb.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-21-2007, 07:54 PM
if i was fanecas agent, i could easilly make the case that faneca is lower risk and more valuable to a team than shaub:

faneca:

multiple pro bowls
sb champ
multiple starts
regarded as top 2 of his position
average guards are now making more $ than average qb's

shaub:

6td's/6int's
70 career passer rating
not proven
a risky gamble

the texans now desperately need OL help and now have the #10 pick in the draft (i assume they are targetting levi brown)

who helps them more next year brown or faneca. i would say the texans might want to consider giving us their #10 pick to get some immediate protection for their new franchise qb.

Dude I think you're making solid points. I really do and I hope the Steelers get that much value in return if they indeed trade Faneca. I guess I'm just not use to a OG in their early 30's commanding that much value. But players values at all positions have sky rocketed the last few years. So I won't say its impossible to get that much in return for Faneca. I know if I was a GM I wouldn't give up that much for Alan Faneca not unless I thought he was the missing link to a Super Bowl title.

But great point on Schaub if the Texans want him to fair better then David Carr then they better get him some protection. So the Texans could be a dancing partner for the Steelers.

Stlrs4Life
03-21-2007, 09:28 PM
hear me out.

-faneca to arizona for their 1st and 2nd
-polamalu to dallas for their 1st and next years 1st
-hines to san fransisco for this years 1st and next years 3rd

we would have tons of cap room going into the future and tons of high draft picks to rebuild.

sound absurd? cowboys traded their only good player (herschel walker)

patriots traded drew bledsoe (#1 overall pick and franchise qb) plus they traded their #1 pick with the ravens so they could move up and take boller.

im not sure of the trade market value of these players but seattle made the bonehead move of tradin their 1st for a wr who is a #2 at best. im sure we could find a few suckers out there (detroit?)

you all know what dallas and the patriots did with their moves? win 3 of 4 superbowls.

so whats more important? winning superbowls or keeping players we are sentimentally attached to?



In that scenario, we would be dumb not to take it.

BBC
03-21-2007, 09:44 PM
so has anyone softened their stance on trading faneca? i see alot more people a bit more resigned to the fact that faneca is probably gone anyways. atlenta scored a ransom by trading an untested back up qb for 2 2nd rounders and moving up 2 spots in the 1st 10 picks in the draft. that is huge!

faneca must be worth more than that right? even with that low ball deal we could easilly land baylock from UT to immediately replace faneca.

I must say, I understand your reasoning for starting this thread a lot more after reading the most recent Faneca thread.

Some people need to learn to let go of their favorite player.

That said, my stance on trading Faneca is the same. I wouldn't be opposed to it.

SteelerFan87
03-21-2007, 11:50 PM
Right now, I think the Steelers have a chance to win the Super Bowl. If we trade Faneca, I will resign myself to the knowledge that we won't make the playoffs.