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BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 05:19 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/rss/s_495927.html


By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Saturday, March 3, 2007


LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - The backdrop at Walt Disney World on Friday offered a stark contrast to the reality rammed home to two of the Steelers' most prominent players a day earlier.
Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and wide receiver Hines Ward are at a veritable fantasy land this weekend, taking part in the annual "ESPN The Weekend" at Disney's MGM Studios, and both said they understand that football at this level is a business as much as it is a game.

But each also said that realization didn't make the loss of outside linebacker Joey Porter, who was released Thursday because of financial considerations, any easier.

"I got better playing against Joey Porter," Roethlisberger said yesterday. "Just everything that he brought made me a better player."





"I think (the Steelers cutting Porter) just shocked everybody, regardless of the situation," Ward said. "Joey's always been the catalyst of our defense, the focal point of our defense. There's no question losing a Joey Porter hurts our team defensively."

His release is another change in an offseason that has been full of them for the Steelers.

Bill Cowher, who had been the Steelers head coach since 1992, resigned in January, and no one is sure what shape the Steelers will take under Mike Tomlin, especially after what happened with Porter.

"(Alan) Faneca called me, some of the veteran guys, my phone has been blowing up like, 'What the hell are we doing?' " said Ward, a nine-year veteran. "A lot of guys are questioning what's going on, kind of worried about the makeup of this team, where we are actually going to go."

Ward said he has talked to Tomlin, liked what the new coach had to say and is excited to play for him.

But Porter's release was, if not unsettling to Ward, at least the equivalent of cold water thrown in the face.

Ward is one of the highest-paid Steelers, and his salary will count $5.9 million against the salary cap this season.

"As a veteran guy, you look at (what happened to Porter) and you worry a little bit because you lay it out on the line to try to do what's best for the team and then you see players get cut," Ward said. "You sit there and say, 'Uh oh. Am I next in line?' "

Ward, whose contract doesn't expire until after the 2009 season, said the Steelers have not approached him about restructuring the deal. But, he acknowledged, after next season the two sides will probably have to do something to make his contract more amenable to the salary cap if he is to stay with the Steelers.

Porter had one year left on his contract, but it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't return to the team unless he and the Steelers worked out a long-term extension.

Ward and Roethlisberger said his loss goes beyond the numbers Porter posted in sacks, tackles and opponents intimidated.

While the colorful and sometimes controversial Porter rankled his share of people outside of the Steelers' locker room, he was eminently popular inside of it.

"Joey was such a great friend, not only a teammate," Ward said. "Not having him around the locker room, he's going to be missed in that sense. I'm sure Joey would have loved to just retire as a Steeler. Players, coaches, we come and go, it's a part of the business, and that's kind of the (bad) part of it."

Roethlisberger agreed.

"You lose a guy that's such an emotional leader, a phenomenal football player and a game-changer on defense for us," he said. "What the Rooneys felt was the right decision they made, and it's a business for them as well."

This is exactly what Ive been saying since this started and so have some of you as well. For those that doubt Porters influence on this team and he meant as a locker room and on the field leader and friend, read this article. These players aren't just talking to hear themselves talk otherwise they'd be downplaying this so it doesnt seem as bad.

This team is in a state of flux and these players don't know how to deal with this type of change. They've all seen teammates come and go over the years but the change that we're undergoing now is unlike anything 90 percent of our roster has ever seen. I know we're excited about Tomlin and his ideas and fresh attitude toward coaching and everything but we have to remember that our players are human beings too with feelings and they were all very attached to Joey and respected him as a teammate and friend. In their eyes his play didn't drop off 1 bit contrary to what the media and some of us think. They understand the NFL is business, it's part of the gig when you sign up to play, but still the affects of what's been happening with coaches leaving, players getting released is going to take its toll on this team as the coming months unfold. How they handle it will be key to our success especially early on.

It's going to take longer than you might think for this team to adjust, partly because they are all scattered and not in Pittsburgh and most have them have barely talked to Tomlin at this point so there's alot of unanswered questions among the players that need to be resolved. I hope they are able to move forward as a unit and compete and play well and grasp the new scheme and ideas that Tomlin has but don't be surprised if we do struggle atleast some early on.

Friday133
03-03-2007, 06:36 PM
Meh. this is just their emotions talking right now. Wait until they get in mini camp in May and then training camp in July. This team will find an identity and be just fine. There is just way too much of a deal being made of Porter leaving IMO.

TEEMONT
03-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Meh. this is just their emotions talking right now. Wait until they get in mini camp in May and then training camp in July. This team will find an identity and be just fine. There is just way too much of a deal being made of Porter leaving IMO.

Last I checked, football is an emotional game. This team has no identity at the moment. I have my doubts that this team will find an indentity by the time the reg. season rolls around. When we got rid of guys like Lloyd and Woodson, we had people who could step up and take their place, this is not the case with Porter. He can still go above and dbeyond what is expected of him. I really hope he doesn't get picked up by the bungles, b/c he is going to make up pay if he does.

I stand by my previous statement that this is a terrible move. It's all about letting the team know who is in charge, and the outcome is going to hurt the fans. Tomlin is trying to show who the boss is, and I think the team is going to resent him for it.

He better show me something in this draft.

steelcurtaindad
03-03-2007, 07:00 PM
I believe someone named Noll was quoted as saying "Franco who?" after the release of the star RB. The Steeler's made the playoffs that year.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 07:02 PM
Football is indeed an emotional game and last time I checked that was still the case. When a player like HInes, Alan, and Ben speak on a topic involving a teammate we as fans should pay attention.

Sure sometimes players say things just to get attention, but in a case like this when these guys are in the offseason, on vacation and they are all calling each other wondering what's going on and who's next, then yes that's cause for concern. You can't just pick up an identity at the drop of a hat. Cowher spent years molding us into the team that he left behind and now Tomlin must do the same thing. Players are people too and while they know the NFL is a business and players come and go at any given time, this year is unlike anything we've seen in the last 15 years.

I stand by my statements ever since Cowher left that this team may very well struggle out of the gate in 2007. It doesnt matter how much you try to downplay change, it's going to affect the players and the chemistry of the group atleast in the beginning. You as a coach have to convince players to buy into your system and your way of thinking. You can't just walk into the room and start smacking the gavel around and think you've got the respect of the room. It has to be earned. Tomlin has said alot of positive things so far and most of the players seem to think he's going to be good for the Steelers but that doesn't discount the fact that they won't just roll into a new system and thinks it's all hunky dory when the system they came out of just last year has gotten them so much success.

Porter leaving is just another moving in this wild offseason that the players have to deal with. Uncertainty brings apprehension and this team needs to come together. It's too early to throw in the towel on 2007 of course, nobody is doing that, but that doesn't mean that the concern factor for 2007 is slowly but surely rising as well.

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 07:08 PM
I believe someone named Noll was quoted as saying "Franco who?" after the release of the star RB. The Steeler's made the playoffs that year....and 26 years later the steelers finally won another superbowl. i agree with stillers#1, i hate the porter move. but then again i hated seeing cowher walk, and i will hate the inevitable faneca, and ward moves. but the simple matter of the fact is the rooneys have decided to go in a different direction.

ignore the fact that this steelers team won the sb 2 seasons ago. right now the rooneys are looking at getting where the jets or saints are with a new hope and direction.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 07:11 PM
See that's the thing that bugs me..the Saints and Jets needed a new direction cuz they sucked 2 years ago. They got a new HC and a system, etc and they are doing well. We weren't broke yet we continue to make changes that for this year make less sense than usual.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 07:19 PM
If Porter had played better on the field last year and injuries not been a factor he would still be here but the fact his he can now be considered injury prone and now that he is on the downside of his career paying a declining injury prone player doesn't make alot of sense. No different than the previously when older vets were let go for the same reason, its not like we dont have any other leadership on the team

TampaSteelGirl
03-03-2007, 07:25 PM
Meh. this is just their emotions talking right now. Wait until they get in mini camp in May and then training camp in July. This team will find an identity and be just fine. There is just way too much of a deal being made of Porter leaving IMO.

I totally disagree! It is emotional! These guys are like family, we play like family and that's why we are a unique football team. We don't play like the other teams iwith their "There is I in the word Team" football. Each player complements each other and losing Porter is a huge loss to the Steelers. Emotionally and defensively. If you thought last year was bad, wait till this year now. Losing Jerome and now Joey (Strong LEADERS!!), I was so excited about this new coach until this suprising news about Joey now I feel disaapointment somewhat! Our boys are fearing for their positions and in some way it's good but I think its going to do more harm that good and now how are they feeling about their new coach after this?. I'll bet Joey has his best year this year and I'm sorry it's not going to be as a Steeler!!!! :cursin:

TampaSteelGirl
03-03-2007, 07:26 PM
See that's the thing that bugs me..the Saints and Jets needed a new direction cuz they sucked 2 years ago. They got a new HC and a system, etc and they are doing well. We weren't broke yet we continue to make changes that for this year make less sense than usual.

Yea and now the Saints let Joe Horn go because of money too!!!! What's going on???????? :scratch:

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 07:28 PM
I totally disagree! It is emotional! These guys are like family, we play like family and that's why we are a unique football team. We don't play like the other teams in their "There is I in the word Team" football. Each player complements each other and losing Porter is a huge loss to the Steelers. Emotionally and defensively. If you thought last year was bad, wait till this year now. Losing Jerome and now Joey, I was so excited about this new coach until this suprising news about Joey, now I feel disaapointment somewhat! Our boys are fearing for their positions and in some way it's good but I think its going to do more harm that good. I'll bet Joey has his best year this year and I'm sorry it's not going to be as a Steeler!!!! :cursin:

The thing is are his best years are behind him, I will be shocked if he ever plays another full 16 game season again. He will miss at least a game this year with some kind of injury

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 07:30 PM
If Porter had played better on the field last year and injuries not been a factor he would still be here but the fact his he can now be considered injury prone and now that he is on the downside of his career paying a declining injury prone player doesn't make alot of sense. No different than the previously when older vets were let go for the same reason, its not like we dont have any other leadership on the team

Who else is a leader on the team right now like Joey was?

Let's put it another way. Jerome was a leader that everybody respected and rallied around his entire career with us. When he left last year who stepped up to take over some of that role? Nobody. Hines didn't, neither did Alan, Ben, Willie, Casey, Troy? Nope, the team was in disarray last year when we needed leadership the most.

Now Joey is gone, and he was the sole player who lit a fire under the team, inspired them and fired them up. Everybody respected him and followed his lead.

Our team has always been special and unique because they rallied around each other, they stayed focused, they were a family and stuck together. Now they are in a state of flux and there is more change on the way with the draft and any FA's we bring. Players need to step up in a big way and I hope to God they do because if they don't, we will struggle.

TampaSteelGirl
03-03-2007, 07:31 PM
Last I checked, football is an emotional game. This team has no identity at the moment. I have my doubts that this team will find an indentity by the time the reg. season rolls around. When we got rid of guys like Lloyd and Woodson, we had people who could step up and take their place, this is not the case with Porter. He can still go above and dbeyond what is expected of him. I really hope he doesn't get picked up by the bungles, b/c he is going to make up pay if he does.

I stand by my previous statement that this is a terrible move. It's all about letting the team know who is in charge, and the outcome is going to hurt the fans. Tomlin is trying to show who the boss is, and I think the team is going to resent him for it.

He better show me something in this draft.

I agree with you and this entire post 100%!!!!!

TampaSteelGirl
03-03-2007, 07:33 PM
The thing is are his best years are behind him, I will be shocked if he ever plays another full 16 game season again. He will miss at least a game this year with some kind of injury

Oh please!!!! He's in fabulous shape and not injured!! He's only 29 and has many great years ahead of him! Everyone had a crappy year last year, Troy, Hines, Ben, Ike etc...It wasn't just Joey. I"m telling you, whoever picks him up is getting some serious defensive help!!

House of Steel
03-03-2007, 08:06 PM
This article shows a lot about what I knew all along on how much of an impact Joey Porter has on the Steelers. Ben and Hines both explained it. Alan Faneca is now starting to question the Front Office, and with what happened to Porter, now he is even afraid to stay a Steeler now. Can't blame him.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 08:09 PM
This team felt the impact of Joey not being on the field when he was shot, when he hurt his hamstring last year, and each time was missing for any reason. Now he's gone for good it will take time to adjust no matter who steps in.

James Harrison is a good, tough, mean linebacker and I like what he brings to the table. If he stays healthy he can be a huge help for us, but still missing the identity of your defense will take some time to overcome.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 08:10 PM
If you call playing in all 16 games only four out of his eight year career and only once in his last four great shape

DIESELMAN
03-03-2007, 08:22 PM
Who else is a leader on the team right now like Joey was?

Let's put it another way. Jerome was a leader that everybody respected and rallied around his entire career with us. When he left last year who stepped up to take over some of that role? Nobody. Hines didn't, neither did Alan, Ben, Willie, Casey, Troy? Nope, the team was in disarray last year when we needed leadership the most.

Now Joey is gone, and he was the sole player who lit a fire under the team, inspired them and fired them up. Everybody respected him and followed his lead.

Our team has always been special and unique because they rallied around each other, they stayed focused, they were a family and stuck together. Now they are in a state of flux and there is more change on the way with the draft and any FA's we bring. Players need to step up in a big way and I hope to God they do because if they don't, we will struggle.

:bigthumb: With the coaching changes and players being released it is definitely time for players to step up and be the leaders both on offense and defense. Last year I think everyone was waiting on someone else to step up. With all that went on last year nobody stepped. Why? Who knows. There will be confusion on where we are going and how we are going to get there. This is the time for Tomlin to speak not just individually but speak to the team as a whole and get everyone on the same page. Get the defense knowing if we'll be a 3-4 or a 4-3 or a cover 2 or a what the **** ever. He wanted to be the coach well this is where Tomlin needs to step up and do his part on keeping the team together and start focusing on this coming season. The releases and the not knowing what we are doing will be a distraction. Yes the players are grown men and should be able to handle change but not if its going to slap them in the face when it happens and without warning.

BB2W
03-03-2007, 08:26 PM
It seemed like the end of the world when they lost Nickerson, Brown, Lloyd, Kirkland, Holmes, etc. The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 08:28 PM
It seemed like the end of the world when they lost Nickerson, Brown, Lloyd, Kirkland, Holmes, etc. The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.

Agreed

Chicken Little - "the sky is falling!!"

Black@Gold Forever32
03-03-2007, 08:29 PM
It seemed like the end of the world when they lost Nickerson, Brown, Lloyd, Kirkland, Holmes, etc. The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.

:bigthumb:Dude good post. Exactly growing up a Steelers fan in the free agency era like I did taught me how Pro Sports is a business. I used to get some upset seeing the players leave like the ones you named. Now I just know players/coaches come and they go but the Pittsburgh Steelers remain. I wish Joey Porter could have remained a Steelers but it didn't happen. Time to move on.

kgreen
03-03-2007, 08:48 PM
I believe someone named Noll was quoted as saying "Franco who?" after the release of the star RB. The Steeler's made the playoffs that year.

He was being sarcastic when he said that by the way.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 09:14 PM
It seemed like the end of the world when they lost Nickerson, Brown, Lloyd, Kirkland, Holmes, etc. The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.

Well not so much when those guys left because we had guys ready to step in right behind them. Sure we were probably all upset to see those guys go, I know I was. Kirkland was awesome, so was Lloyd, Chad Brown, etc but we had guys groomed and ready to step in..the difference with Porter leaving this year is that we have nobody there capable of filling his shoes either in a leadership role or level of play on the field. James Harrison has potential sure, but he's unproven and has been hurt in the past. Arnold Harrison has barely played at all and Haggans is overrated. If we take a draft pick he'll almost be forced to step in right away which may not necessarily be a bad thing but it's not the optimal situation for a team who's strength is the LB's. We're not a big FA player either so that limits what we can do as well.

Who the hell knows, all I know is there are more question marks going into 2007 then we've seen in a LONG time so let's hope the players rally together and make it happen :towelwave:

BlitzburghNation
03-03-2007, 09:18 PM
:poke: :deadhorse: :popcorn: Don't :banging: over this !

TEEMONT
03-03-2007, 09:39 PM
If Porter had played better on the field last year and injuries not been a factor he would still be here but the fact his he can now be considered injury prone and now that he is on the downside of his career paying a declining injury prone player doesn't make alot of sense. No different than the previously when older vets were let go for the same reason, its not like we dont have any other leadership on the team

I don't know who you were watchin last year, but he didn't have this "terrible" season you keep bringing up.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 10:41 PM
I don't know who you were watchin last year, but he didn't have this "terrible" season you keep bringing up.

How about being tied for 34th in the league in sacks, a mind blowing 55 tackles, and 6 games with 2 or less tackles and two with 3 and 5 games with just 1 tackle. All in a system that is linebacker dominated. That ranks Porter last among the Steelers starting LB's Farrior had 128, Foote with 91, Haggans with 77. Porter ranked 9th on the Steelers in tackles. And he missed two games

BB2W
03-03-2007, 10:55 PM
Who the hell knows, all I know is there are more question marks going into 2007 then we've seen in a LONG time so let's hope the players rally together and make it happen :towelwave:I agree, and you're right... we won't know until they take the field.

I think the team is probabaly better in 2007 with Porter, but it was the right move for the long-term future of the team.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-03-2007, 11:21 PM
How about being tied for 34th in the league in sacks, a mind blowing 55 tackles, and 6 games with 2 or less tackles and two with 3 and 5 games with just 1 tackle. All in a system that is linebacker dominated. That ranks Porter last among the Steelers starting LB's Farrior had 128, Foote with 91, Haggans with 77. Porter ranked 9th on the Steelers in tackles. And he missed two games

And thru all that Joey got the majority of the double teams and dropped into coverage way more than the other 3 because he was our best pass coverage LB, so those stats are skewed. Joey's performance isn't always about getting tackles and sacks because he was responsible for much more than just pass rushing.

Sure I'd have liked to see him get more tackles and sacks but it is what is. Greg Lloyd didn't always have stellar games for us, neither did Chad or Levon or Kevin Greene but when the chips were down and we had to have a play, and the team needed someone to rally behind, they looked to those players.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 11:46 PM
And thru all that Joey got the majority of the double teams and dropped into coverage way more than the other 3 because he was our best pass coverage LB, so those stats are skewed. Joey's performance isn't always about getting tackles and sacks because he was responsible for much more than just pass rushing.

Sure I'd have liked to see him get more tackles and sacks but it is what is. Greg Lloyd didn't always have stellar games for us, neither did Chad or Levon or Kevin Greene but when the chips were down and we had to have a play, and the team needed someone to rally behind, they looked to those players.

Excuses Excuses, stats dont lie. The best players on every team get the double teams. He wasnt getting the job done. double teams sure didnt hurt players like shawn merriman. He was supposed to be this amazing pass rusher and blow up plays when in reality the stats bear it out that he wasnt great at either on a consistant basis. he had double digit sacks only twice in his career. Im sorry stats do not lie, there is no excuse for 5 games with 1 tackle

BB2W
03-03-2007, 11:48 PM
The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.I just thought about this... anyone that played high school football knows what I'm talking about. Every year you lost your best players and biggest leaders, but the team moved on and someone stepped up.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2007, 11:56 PM
I just thought about this... anyone that played high school football knows what I'm talking about. Every year you lost your best players and biggest leaders, but the team moved on and someone stepped up.

hell that extends beyond football to pretty much any competitive sport, I know its like that on my swim team. we lost the fastest swimmer in d3 to graduation and we finished 2 spots higher this year at states. The world isnt going to end because Porter isnt here

BB2W
03-04-2007, 12:00 AM
hell that extends beyond football to pretty much any competitive sport, I know its like that on my swim team. we lost the fastest swimmer in d3 to graduation and we finished 2 spots higher this year at states. Absolutely... my sophomore year we lost our quarterback who was a four year starter and the teams leader. He went on to play collage football at Kentucky-Weslyn. The guy that took over for him was my classmate who went to Vanderbilt and played for the Packers, Colts, and the Bills. My point is someone stepped up...

BlitzburghNation
03-04-2007, 12:07 AM
:popcorn: :beer3:

Friday133
03-04-2007, 10:10 AM
It seemed like the end of the world when they lost Nickerson, Brown, Lloyd, Kirkland, Holmes, etc. The team will move on... once camp starts the team will form it's own identity and just play football.

Wow, finally a rational post, I thought I'd never read one in this thread.

Friday133
03-04-2007, 10:11 AM
:bigthumb:Dude good post. Exactly growing up a Steelers fan in the free agency era like I did taught me how Pro Sports is a business. I used to get some upset seeing the players leave like the ones you named. Now I just know players/coaches come and they go but the Pittsburgh Steelers remain. I wish Joey Porter could have remained a Steelers but it didn't happen. Time to move on.

Again, another smart post. The Steelers will rebound, someone else on the team will step up to fill his shoes.

TEEMONT
03-04-2007, 12:25 PM
How about being tied for 34th in the league in sacks, a mind blowing 55 tackles, and 6 games with 2 or less tackles and two with 3 and 5 games with just 1 tackle. All in a system that is linebacker dominated. That ranks Porter last among the Steelers starting LB's Farrior had 128, Foote with 91, Haggans with 77. Porter ranked 9th on the Steelers in tackles. And he missed two games

Porter has never had more than 88 tackles in a year, and has averaged about 58 per year. Porter has never had a lot of tackles. He is a guy who is getting doubled ...a lot. Once again, I don't know what season you were watching, but Joey actually had a better year "statistically" last year then he did in '04.

So by your thinking since he started to "slip" in '04, we should have gotten rid of him.

TEEMONT
03-04-2007, 12:28 PM
Again, another smart post. The Steelers will rebound, someone else on the team will step up to fill his shoes.

And it's smart b/c why? B/c it's the same "opinion" as yours? When we have lost other linebackers we have had guys waiting in the wings. We don't exactly have a young "stud" waiting to take Porters place. There is a reason this bugs people like Hines, Faneca, and Ben.

TEEMONT
03-04-2007, 12:48 PM
hell that extends beyond football to pretty much any competitive sport, I know its like that on my swim team. we lost the fastest swimmer in d3 to graduation and we finished 2 spots higher this year at states. The world isnt going to end because Porter isnt here

You can't really compare swimming to football....as a matter of fact...never do it again.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-04-2007, 12:50 PM
Wow, finally a rational post, I thought I'd never read one in this thread.

That's because you think no one is rational but you.

BB2W
03-04-2007, 01:10 PM
When we have lost other linebackers we have had guys waiting in the wings. We don't exactly have a young "stud" waiting to take Porters place.They were "studs" in hindsight...

In 1992 when we lost Nickerson... I highly doubt fans considered rookie second round pick Chad Brown to be a lock to fill Hardy's shoes. He stepped in and made some plays, just like the guy that will follow Porter. In Brown's second year he had 122 tackles and 8.5 sacks.

I doubt Steeler Nation was convinced that third round pick Joey Porter from Colorado State would pick up the torch Gregg Lloyd dropped in 1997.

Who's to say they won't draft a guy that performs at high level? Who's to say that guy isn't already on the roster?

TEEMONT
03-04-2007, 01:16 PM
They were "studs" in hindsight...

In 1992 when we lost Nickerson... I highly doubt fans considered rookie second round pick Chad Brown to be a lock to fill Hardy's shoes. He stepped in and made some plays, just like the guy that will follow Porter. In Brown's second year he had 122 tackles and 8.5 sacks.

I doubt Steeler Nation was convinced that third round pick Joey Porter from Colorado State would pick up the torch Gregg Lloyd dropped in 1997.

Who's to say they won't draft a guy that performs at high level? Who's to say that guy isn't already on the roster?

I'm not saying a guy won't pick-up where Joey left off. But judging by what we have on the team now, it won't happen without a fantastic draft.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-04-2007, 01:19 PM
They were "studs" in hindsight...

In 1992 when we lost Nickerson... I highly doubt fans considered rookie second round pick Chad Brown to be a lock to fill Hardy's shoes. He stepped in and made some plays, just like the guy that will follow Porter. In Brown's second year he had 122 tackles and 8.5 sacks.

I doubt Steeler Nation was convinced that third round pick Joey Porter from Colorado State would pick up the torch Gregg Lloyd dropped in 1997.

Who's to say they won't draft a guy that performs at high level? Who's to say that guy isn't already on the roster?


Actually most fans knew that Chad Brown being a 2nd round pick and from what he displayed in the duty he got before he took the field as a starter opposite Kirkland, he was the logical successor.

Joey Porter was drafted and many thought he was a better LB than Jason Gildon was at the time. In previous years we took several LB's in the draft and Porter had a huge upside that once we saw him play we knew he'd be something special. I hated to see Lloyd leave, he's one of my all time favorites but Joey was ready.

James Harrison has shown flashes of brilliance but nothing that says this guy is going to play at a pro bowl level like his predecessor did, over time. Im not downplaying your argument BB2W , just saying that for the first time we let a LB go without a top young prospect waiting who's earned the right to take over.

BB2W
03-04-2007, 01:29 PM
You guys need to relax... someone will step in and make some plays. The Steelers have a formula that works.

I can't beleive as Steelers fans you're not used to losing good players and watching them be replaced by good players.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-04-2007, 01:35 PM
Yes the Steelers have a formula that works because in the past we've seen what our guys have done and who's ready to step up. This year we're using that same formula minus the guy who's ready to step up.

I hope we do play well this year and Tomlin is the NFL coach of the year for 2007. I hope our defense is better than ever, Willie has 17 TD's and 1600 yds rushing, Hines has a Pro Bowl year and Holmes cements himself as a starter. I hope our ST play better than they did even in 2005. I hope that all happens but right now early indications are that we could be in a rocky start to 2007 which could have implications come December. It's anybody's guess at this point...

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 03:40 PM
You guys need to relax... someone will step in and make some plays. The Steelers have a formula that works.

I can't beleive as Steelers fans you're not used to losing good players and watching them be replaced by good players.
that whole formula is dated (we used to be able to draft a s. merriman type player in the 2nd or 3rd rounds).

cowher was the architect of that formula and both have been kicked to the curb.

with all the teams switching to the 3-4 and tomlin changing to a 4-3 the steelers formula for turning out linebackers like hotcakes has ran its course.

with hoak retiring we may not be able to turn out running backs as well either.

BB2W
03-04-2007, 03:46 PM
that whole formula is dated (we used to be able to draft a s. merriman type player in the 2nd or 3rd rounds).

cowher was the architect of that formula and both have been kicked to the curb.

with all the teams switching to the 3-4 and tomlin changing to a 4-3 the steelers formula for turning out linebackers like hotcakes has ran its course.

with hoak retiring we may not be able to turn out running backs as well either.The formula I was speaking of was how they let a lot of good players go that have already peaked rather than signing them to a big contract in the twilight of their career.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 04:08 PM
The formula I was speaking of was how they let a lot of good players go that have already peaked rather than signing them to a big contract in the twilight of their career.i thought you meant our formula of being "linebacker U". those days are gone. everyone has figured out that formula that we were so ahead of the curve on. 10 or so teams switching to our dominant 3-4 watered down the pool of prospects, so once again we are probably ahead of the curve by switching to a 4-3. these trends are cyclical in the nfl and its important to stay ahead rather than playing catch up.

as for the other formula, the steelers have strayed a bit and backloaded a ton of contracts to make a sb run that has abruptly ended after 1 year. i think the steelers realized they were heading down the wrong course towards salary cap hell and realized they needed to nip that **** in the bud. better to have 2 years of mediocrity than to fall off the map into suckdom like the 49ers have in the past 5 years.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 04:28 PM
You can't really compare swimming to football....as a matter of fact...never do it again.

No...I was a very competitve swimmer and I can tell you I could never compare that sport to football. Plus swimming is more of an individual sport and football is a team sport. There is a huge difference and the two can't be compared.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 04:30 PM
Excuses Excuses, stats dont lie.

Stats can be misleading. You can not rely on stats entirely.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 04:39 PM
I do agree. We will move on, but I think it will be a little harder this year than it has been in the past. We have always had people that could step up and fill the shoes of the players that we had lost. Also, we don't have the leadership Joey provided for us. Hopefully someone will step up to take that role, but like someone pointed out, no one stepped in to the Bus's role last year.

SteelerDan43
03-04-2007, 04:48 PM
No...I was a very competitve swimmer and I can tell you I could never compare that sport to football. Plus swimming is more of an individual sport and football is a team sport. There is a huge difference and the two can't be compared.

I AM NOT COMPARING THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS I AM TALKING ABOUT LEADERSHIP IN SPORTS TEAMS WHICH EXTENDS TO ALL SPORTS

SteelerDan43
03-04-2007, 04:53 PM
Porter has never had more than 88 tackles in a year, and has averaged about 58 per year. Porter has never had a lot of tackles. He is a guy who is getting doubled ...a lot. Once again, I don't know what season you were watching, but Joey actually had a better year "statistically" last year then he did in '04.

So by your thinking since he started to "slip" in '04, we should have gotten rid of him.

Every team's best players get double teamed it sure doesnt seem to hurt them. Are you saying players like Merriman who led the league in sacks didnt get double teamed as well??? The decision to get rid of him now is due to a trend that has been following him for the last few years including 04. He has never had great stats outside of 2 years of his 8. In my opinion he was overrated as a player because of his outspoken personality.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 04:54 PM
I AM NOT COMPARING THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS I AM TALKING ABOUT LEADERSHIP IN SPORTS TEAMS WHICH EXTENDS TO ALL SPORTS

however, from my experience...the type of leadership you refer to when talking about leadership is exactly what you need on a swim team (I will agree with that) but, swimming is not really a team a sport (it is much more individualized) and most swimmers I know have their own ways to get fired up. I used to sit in a corner by myself, listen to the same song and visualize my race. That is different than what a football team needs. They need that leadership you refer to, but they also need an in your face, light a fire under your *** kind of leader also. That was Joey's role...a role that does needed on a swim team.

SteelerDan43
03-04-2007, 04:58 PM
however, from my experience...the type of leadership you refer to when talking about leadership is exactly what you need on a swim team (I will agree with that) but, swimming is not really a team a sport (it is much more individualized) and most swimmers I know have their own ways to get fired up. I used to sit in a corner by myself, listen to the same song and visualize my race. That is different than what a football team needs. They need that leadership you refer to, but they also need an in your face, light a fire under your *** kind of leader also. That was Joey's role...a role that does needed on a swim team.

at the end of meets when its close coming down to the last few events individuals dont decide the meet, the team mindset does. A relay is definatley a team event. I have seen multiple meets decided by the breaststroke and last relay and those meets have been won by coming together as a team. So I completely disagree with you.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 05:06 PM
at the end of meets when its close coming down to the last few events individuals dont decide the meet, the team mindset does. A relay is definatley a team event. I have seen multiple meets decided by the breaststroke and last relay and those meets have been won by coming together as a team. So I completely disagree with you.

Ok, but in a relay you are swimming by yourself while working as a team. I am not dissing swimming. I grew up with the sport and it was my life for most of my life. Many of my life accomplishemnts come from the sport. All I'm saying is there is a difference in the type of motivation you need for swimming than you would need to walk out on a football field and kick some ***. Ever sport needs different type of leadership and people to fuill those roles. Football is the kind of sport that you have to be physically and mentally tough and go out and kick some *** and emotions play a big part in that. I see you saying what type of leadership is needed, and you are right, I completely agree with the fact that you need leaders to lead by example, but in football you also need an emotional leader...some one to light that spark and someone to keep that spark lit the entire game.

SteelerDan43
03-04-2007, 05:16 PM
Ok, but in a relay you are swimming by yourself while working as a team. I am not dissing swimming. I grew up with the sport and it was my life for most of my life. Many of my life accomplishemnts come from the sport. All I'm saying is there is a difference in the type of motivation you need for swimming than you would need to walk out on a football field and kick some ***. Ever sport needs different type of leadership and people to fuill those roles. Football is the kind of sport that you have to be physically and mentally tough and go out and kick some *** and emotions play a big part in that. I see you saying what type of leadership is needed, and you are right, I completely agree with the fact that you need leaders to lead by example, but in football you also need an emotional leader...some one to light that spark and someone to keep that spark lit the entire game.

Ok for example this season going into the 200 breast we nneded to win that and the last relay to win. We gathered together as a team and rallied around the breastrokers and we had a person drop 2 seconds off his time to win the race (no different from making a big play). Everyone was so pumped from his effort we came from behind in the relay to win the meet. There is no difference in the type of motivation you need, both football and swimming have players that need to be relatively calm and cognitive but both also have the adrenaline pumping jumping up and down pre-play/pre-race people as well. If you start off the meet well with a great medley relay it can have the same effect on the swim team and raise the teams spirits and thereby their performances just as forcing the other team to a 3 and out does the same. Leadership is not sport dependent, nor does it only have to be confined to the idea of sports all together. I can believe how much time I have wasted talking about this bum. Good riddance Joey Porter, we dont need you, your bum legs, your sporadic performance, or your thug attitude. I have better things to do then worry about losing and aging overrated player

BBG7
03-04-2007, 05:21 PM
ok, you are missing the point.

TEEMONT
03-04-2007, 05:27 PM
at the end of meets when its close coming down to the last few events individuals dont decide the meet, the team mindset does. A relay is definatley a team event. I have seen multiple meets decided by the breaststroke and last relay and those meets have been won by coming together as a team. So I completely disagree with you.

Dude, stop trying to compare swimming to football, there is no comparison at all. Being at a swimming meet and in a football game are two completely different things. It's like comparing feminine apples to masculine oranges.

I played the game for 10 years, and I am actually pretty offended that you would even try to find similarities in the two.

BBG7
03-04-2007, 05:31 PM
Dude, stop trying to compare swimming to football, there is no comparison at all. Being at a swimming meet and in a football game are two completely different things. It's like comparing feminine apples to masculine oranges.

I played the game for 10 years, and I am actually pretty offended that you would even try to find similarities in the two.

well I don't know how much I like your comparison :lol: but you are right...the two do not even come close to being a good comparison.

SteelerFan87
03-04-2007, 07:24 PM
When Greg Lloyd left, we had Gildon to step up and be the #1 OLB. When Kirkland and Holmes left, Kendrell Bell and James Farrior stepped up to fill their roles. When Gildon left, Porter became the #1 OLB, but Haggans was a downgrade, IMO. Now that Porter is gone, who's going to step up? Haggans? He was already a downgrade from Gildon. Harrison? Maybe in terms of skill, where he looks kind of like a mini-Porter, but not in terms of leadership. Ever other time a guy has left, his replacement has been just as good. The last one though, Haggans, was a clear downgrade, and from the looks of it, the replacement for Porter will be one too.

Why couldn't we just cut Haggans (who's good, but not great), and with the money we save there, resign Porter for the $6 or $7 million he wanted?

SteelersfaninPhilly
03-04-2007, 07:37 PM
Why couldn't we just cut Haggans (who's good, but not great), and with the money we save there, resign Porter for the $6 or $7 million he wanted?


Porter is not worth $6 or $7 million.

tony hipchest
03-05-2007, 12:57 AM
[QUOTE=SteelerFan87;78336] Harrison? Maybe in terms of skill, where he looks kind of like a mini-Porter, but not in terms of leadership. [QUOTE]

this whole "leadership" deal is a bit overrated (even though porter was undisputably the defensive leader- if not the leader of the whole team)

porter wasnt a leader until he was given the opportunity. since harrison hasnt even been given the opportunity, how can we say hes not a leader.

the whole point is moot now. TOMLIN is the leader. he dont need anyone on the field running his show until they earn it or he appoints them. with tomlin in charge, i dont think the rooney woulda brought him in if they doubted the steelers would have "leadership"

SteelersWoman
03-05-2007, 02:42 AM
Who's to say that guy isn't already on the roster?

Who's to say he is? This is the question that worries some people.


You guys need to relax... someone will step in and make some plays. The Steelers have a formula that works.

The Rooney/Steeler "formula" is like a recipe--a recipe means it requires several steps/ingredients/parts--in other words, their formula isn't one dimensional.

While letting go of aging players is one part of that "recipe", so many other ingredients that we as fans are used to having, is being "substituted" right now, that it's unsettling to those that liked the entire old recipe :bigthumb:

And just like trying a new recipe, some people go at it with gusto, others are a bit more skeptical and approach with the "I'll see" idea. So there's no right or wrong way of looking at it--it's just our own personality coming into play.



I can't believe as Steelers fans you're not used to losing good players and watching them be replaced by good players.

While that's technically true, I think we all know there'll never be another Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Green, Jack Ham, and a few other greats. Yes--they had people take over in their position, but they can never truly be "replaced". There are just some players that are a one of a kind.

For a lot of us, Joey was that kind of player. And it didn't matter if he didn't come on like a freight train on every single play, it didn't matter if he sacked the QB once or 5 times a game. And while maybe not always spot on, he was still always a threat because the other team just never knew. We didn't expect perfection out of him. We enjoyed the passion and enthusiasm he brought--he not only pumped his team-mates up, he pumped US up lol

So here's to Joey, and to all of us who loved him in black and gold. There'll never be another to (truly) take his place, and I wish you well wherever you end up--just take it easy on us when you play against us, huh? :greengrin:

BlitzburghRockCity
03-05-2007, 02:46 AM
When Greg Lloyd left, we had Gildon to step up and be the #1 OLB. When Kirkland and Holmes left, Kendrell Bell and James Farrior stepped up to fill their roles. When Gildon left, Porter became the #1 OLB, but Haggans was a downgrade, IMO. Now that Porter is gone, who's going to step up? Haggans? He was already a downgrade from Gildon. Harrison? Maybe in terms of skill, where he looks kind of like a mini-Porter, but not in terms of leadership. Ever other time a guy has left, his replacement has been just as good. The last one though, Haggans, was a clear downgrade, and from the looks of it, the replacement for Porter will be one too.

Why couldn't we just cut Haggans (who's good, but not great), and with the money we save there, resign Porter for the $6 or $7 million he wanted?

:plus1: :plus1: All very good points I was eluding too early as well. While Porter may not be worth 6 or 7 million we would have had the room to sign him. He would have taken less than 6 million per year to stay with us if we'd have atleast tried to offer him a deal instead of kicking him to the curb.

BBC
03-05-2007, 08:19 AM
When Greg Lloyd left, we had Gildon to step up and be the #1 OLB. When Kirkland and Holmes left, Kendrell Bell and James Farrior stepped up to fill their roles. When Gildon left, Porter became the #1 OLB, but Haggans was a downgrade, IMO. Now that Porter is gone, who's going to step up? Haggans? He was already a downgrade from Gildon. Harrison? Maybe in terms of skill, where he looks kind of like a mini-Porter, but not in terms of leadership. Ever other time a guy has left, his replacement has been just as good. The last one though, Haggans, was a clear downgrade, and from the looks of it, the replacement for Porter will be one too.

The bold is a quote that should show what significance all of this really holds. We had a down grade after 2003, then went on to go 31-6 and win a Super Bowl in the next two seasons.

Even if this move is a downgrade at the position (which is still uncertain, despite popular belief), it didn't seem to have much effect on the team the last time we made a "downgrade" at the linebacker position.

steelcurtaingal
03-05-2007, 09:13 AM
I too was sad to see Porter go, but i knew it would happen. I was also openly sad to see Cowher walk, like the guy or hate him, he was a man of steel. but about the porter leaving theory I think the key focus here must be that they are willing to make themselves better in his absense. and yes football is an emotional sport, has been since god put it on this earth. thats why we love it.

TEEMONT
03-05-2007, 11:04 AM
this whole "leadership" deal is a bit overrated (even though porter was undisputably the defensive leader- if not the leader of the whole team)

porter wasnt a leader until he was given the opportunity. since harrison hasnt even been given the opportunity, how can we say hes not a leader.

the whole point is moot now. TOMLIN is the leader. he dont need anyone on the field running his show until they earn it or he appoints them. with tomlin in charge, i dont think the rooney woulda brought him in if they doubted the steelers would have "leadership"

So what you are saying is that everyything that was done with Cowher at the helm, didn't happen. These guys have already "earned" it Tony. I don't see Tomlin wearing a ring.

big d
03-05-2007, 11:09 AM
alan faneca has been bitching all year. First about Cowher and now about the release of porter. I think this team is scared of change. I'm not worried about porters departure or cowhers. I think these moves will make this a better team

BlitzburghRockCity
03-05-2007, 11:58 AM
View Post
this whole "leadership" deal is a bit overrated (even though porter was undisputably the defensive leader- if not the leader of the whole team)

porter wasnt a leader until he was given the opportunity. since harrison hasnt even been given the opportunity, how can we say hes not a leader.


the whole point is moot now. TOMLIN is the leader. he dont need anyone on the field running his show until they earn it or he appoints them. with tomlin in charge, i dont think the rooney woulda brought him in if they doubted the steelers would have "leadership"

Nobody is disputing Tomlin is the leader. Bill Cowher was the ultimate leader too when he was in charge.

However to think that Tomlin should appoint leaders on the field? No, not in my opinion. You can't force someone to be a leader or "appoint them to be a leader on the field", either you are or you aren't. Hell even the team votes captains for each year, not the coaches. Leadership roles are earned in the locker room, the practice field, the film sessions, and on game day. Players step and be accounted for because and their peers respect that. You don't get appointed into a respectful role, you earn it by your peers.

BlackGold4vr
03-05-2007, 12:14 PM
alan faneca has been bitching all year. First about Cowher and now about the release of porter. I think this team is scared of change. I'm not worried about porters departure or cowhers. I think these moves will make this a better team

Remember when Tommy Maddox got hurt a couple years ago and he bitched about having to play with a rookie QB. By the end of the year he was on board with Ben keeping the job! Players are reluctant to change and he is just more outspoken anout it! :blah:

SteelerFan87
03-05-2007, 04:22 PM
Ok, there's a big difference between a coach and a player who's a leader. A coach is a coach. He's the boss, everyone knows that, and they do what he says. But that's totally different from a player who's a leader. Porter was such an effective leader, in a way a coach could never be, because to the players, he was their peer. He was one of them, not a coach. He was a guy who was respected in the locker room, who always stood up for his teammates, and who was a leader in terms of more than Xs and Os or motivational speeches that a coach might give. Who organized the whole throwback jersey thing for Dick Lebeau and Jerome? Porter. Who held everyone back in the tunnel so Jerome could go out in the Super Bowl first? Porter. Who fired up the team with his trash talk and who lead the "Who ride? We Ride!" chant? Porter. A fellow player can reach guys in ways that a coach can't. So no, Tomlin isn't a replacement for Porter. Not at all. He's a replacement for Cowher, who himself was a great motivator and the team loved him. If anything, Tomlin has to prove HIMSELF to the TEAM, not the other way around. He has to earn the respect and love that Cowher got from the team. And even when he does, he won't be able to fill the leadership role of a Jerome Bettis or a Joey Porter. I'm thinking Foote or Farrior might be able to step up and provide something similar, and Silverback (Harrison) might be able to bring the intensity. But for a while, this team will have a void where Porter used to be, and that void won't be filled right away.


And as for Faneca, his comments last year about Ben weren't criticism, they were realism. Obviously nobody watches their starting QB go down and be replaced by a rookie and gets all excited about it. And that's what Faneca said. Later in the season, as Ben proved himself, he had the full support of Faneca and everyone else. That's perfectly normal.

BBG7
03-06-2007, 02:38 AM
Ok, there's a big difference between a coach and a player who's a leader. A coach is a coach. He's the boss, everyone knows that, and they do what he says. But that's totally different from a player who's a leader. Porter was such an effective leader, in a way a coach could never be, because to the players, he was their peer. He was one of them, not a coach. He was a guy who was respected in the locker room, who always stood up for his teammates, and who was a leader in terms of more than Xs and Os or motivational speeches that a coach might give. Who organized the whole throwback jersey thing for Dick Lebeau and Jerome? Porter. Who held everyone back in the tunnel so Jerome could go out in the Super Bowl first? Porter. Who fired up the team with his trash talk and who lead the "Who ride? We Ride!" chant? Porter. A fellow player can reach guys in ways that a coach can't. So no, Tomlin isn't a replacement for Porter. Not at all. He's a replacement for Cowher, who himself was a great motivator and the team loved him. If anything, Tomlin has to prove HIMSELF to the TEAM, not the other way around. He has to earn the respect and love that Cowher got from the team. And even when he does, he won't be able to fill the leadership role of a Jerome Bettis or a Joey Porter. I'm thinking Foote or Farrior might be able to step up and provide something similar, and Silverback (Harrison) might be able to bring the intensity. But for a while, this team will have a void where Porter used to be, and that void won't be filled right away.


And as for Faneca, his comments last year about Ben weren't criticism, they were realism. Obviously nobody watches their starting QB go down and be replaced by a rookie and gets all excited about it. And that's what Faneca said. Later in the season, as Ben proved himself, he had the full support of Faneca and everyone else. That's perfectly normal.

:plus1: I agree. The Steelers will have that void of losing such an emotional team leader. I hope someone steps up and takes his place, but I think it will take a little while for that to happen. As for Tomlin...I see him being a "players coach" and I feel he will quickly earn that respect that Cowher had. The Vikes players really seemed to love him after just one season. I do think he will be different than Cowher, but I think his age and personality will help him connect with the players quickly.

SteelerNation
03-06-2007, 03:12 AM
Meh. this is just their emotions talking right now. Wait until they get in mini camp in May and then training camp in July. This team will find an identity and be just fine. There is just way too much of a deal being made of Porter leaving IMO.

that right there said it for me!