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View Full Version : identify the steelers dead weight



tony hipchest
02-24-2007, 05:11 PM
ok guys, i posted this discussion topic elsewhere and not to sure if it will get much response. the steelers could have (and maybe need) a massive turnover. we need to make room for the rookies we draft or else why even bother showing up for day 2. the porter and hartings issue has been beaten to death, but with the end of the cowher era, i think atleast half of these lesser known, listed players will probably be gone to make way for the new guard.

discuss...




with an overhaul of our coaching staff, its obvious there is an eye towards the future, moreso than an eye towards the now. with this being the case, roster spots for players we can plug in or develop for the future is just about as important as cap space.

last year we saw plenty of wasted draft picks. was it because they were crappy players or because they may have been good but there was no room for them on the roster?

tomlin has said he believes in starters playing special teams. of course after our special teams debaucle in the 01 afcc game cowher said we would see more of this too. not only was our special teams ineffective last year, it was rather old

gardocki
morey
iwouma
(does any one see iwouma or morey as starter potential?)

kirschke
logan
(will they ever see any starting time?)

phillip
(is he gonna play center if okolbi gets hurt, or is it more effective to slide simmons over and use his back up?)

if we draft a cb, rb, or wr, either it will be a wasted pick or some of these players will have to go (consider- lee mays and players like that have been pretty much useless)

colclough
madison
haynes
davenport
wilson
washington
reid

i dont think the steelers problem has been evaluating talent. i think a problem has been retaining players who "know our [sometimes too complex] system" even though they may not have been the best talent.

with the streamlining of our "system" this may give us flexibility we have not seen. its possible any if not many of the names i mentioned could be gone.

so who is the dead weight that will never contribute and needs to go?

Black@Gold Forever32
02-24-2007, 05:27 PM
Well I would think Gardocki is gone and he should be. He makes to much and his power is declining in his kicks.

I think the days of keeping three players just for special teams are over. So that means Morey, Chidi and Kreiwaldt all could be gone. No I don't think Chid or Morey could be starters. But I think keeping Chidi would be smart since I do think he is the best of those three on special teams. Don't mind just keeping one guy for just special teams.

I would imagine both Kirschke and Logan will be on the chopping block. The last few years Kirschke has battled a bad back and with his age/salary I don't think he will be with the team much longer.

As for Logan with his age and recent troubles staying healthy as well the last few years. I think he will be gone as well. Plus Anthony Smith looks like he could start next year. Then Ryan Clark would be the top backup at safety.

As for Marvin Philip. I was reading that the team is high on him. He has the athletic ability the Steelers like in their centers. So I think he will be on the team and battle Okobi for the starters spot. I would explore moving Kendall Simmons to center also. Nothing against Okobi but he has a high cap number. So I would hope that Philip can show enough in camp to oneday be a starter and serve as the backup center to Simmons if he can make the transition to center.

I would bye bye to Verron Haynes. He is a solid player to have as a backup but every year he is hurt.

I think Dookie Davenport showed enough to bring him back.

Ricardo Colclough has been a bust but if the Steelers cut him that would create some serious depth concerns at corner.

I would say Madison won't be back. It wouldn't crush me to see Wilson gone as well.

As for Reid and Washington. Yea bring the back. They're still young and have potential.

BB2W
02-24-2007, 05:31 PM
I've always thought Cowher showed too much loyalty to certain players... I think he liked players that he could see a bit of himself in... players that played a role similar to what he did in his playing career.

tony hipchest
02-24-2007, 05:51 PM
I've always thought Cowher showed too much loyalty to certain players... I think he liked players that he could see a bit of himself in... players that played a role similar to what he did in his playing career.i see what youre saying and if thats the case tomlin isnt gonna see the same thing in those players. with undrafted free agents such as willie, harrison, and washingtom pretty much firmly entrenched, i dont think tomlin will see the need for 10 more "rudi's" or "vince papale's". normally under cowher we would draft say aaron smiths back up (or deisel's) and have them play special teams for 3 years and never get them any game time. under tomlin, i can see drafting this hypothetical player and having deisel start and play special teams while using the rookie to spell him and share some duties to gain experience. this way, several years down the road when it comes time to give a big contract to deisel, or get rid of a 4 year player who is hardly experienced, we will be able to make a better decision. not doing this for the past 4-5 years are why our backs are to the wall as far as salary cap is concerned.

as good as the patriots are, they can easilly afford to go out and get adalius thomas AND donta stallworth. now that is sickenning. the fact we cant do the same is probably one of the big reasons cowher is gone.

Captcoolhand
02-24-2007, 06:11 PM
colclough- maybe :yesnod:
madison -:dunno:
haynes- maybe :yesnod:
davenport -maybe :scratch:
wilson- yes:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
washington- Has his days,wish he had less butter on fingers:yesnod:
reid- Never seen him play yet so Why kick to curb:scratch:


Out of all these guy how can you say useless

tony hipchest
02-24-2007, 06:48 PM
colclough- maybe :yesnod:
madison -:dunno:
haynes- maybe :yesnod:
davenport -maybe :scratch:
wilson- yes:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
washington- Has his days,wish he had less butter on fingers:yesnod:
reid- Never seen him play yet so Why kick to curb:scratch:


Out of all these guy how can you say uselessi didnt call those players useless... just players like lee mays i.e. alonzo jackson, that wr we took in the 4th round 2 years ago, davis, harris, jacobs, humes from last years draft. in other words, players who get cut or get minimal playing time in several years of action. they are useless.

i listed 13 players and forgot all about kreiwalt. we have atleast 8 draft picks. that means 8 on the current roster have to go if we intend on developing our draft picks. i agree that reid, washington, haynes, and davenport are probably keepers, but if we are gonna draft a wr or a rb with the intent on keeping them 2 of the aformentionned will have to go.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-24-2007, 07:03 PM
gardocki - Gone
morey - Keep if possible because he can play WR, but only if he's cheap.
iwouma - Must have, gotta keep no matter what. Our ST is better when he plays.
It doesnt matter if Iwouma is a starter or not, we need him on ST.
Kriedwalt - ST demon, doesnt scare anybody at MLB though. If I had to keep 2 ST's it would be Morey and Iwouma most likely. Iwouma for sure and it's a toss up between Clint and Sean.


kirschke - Keep if possible, he's good depth and comes cheap.
logan - Probably will have to cut, he's lost a step and injured too much. I do like him though, he's a trooper.


phillip - Keeping Philip depends on what happens at Center. If Okobi gets the job and Kendall stays at guard, then keep Philip. If Kendall gets the job and Okobi is a backup, then cut Philip.



colclough - worthless, get rid of him
madison - has some potential, definitely on the bubble
haynes - if he comes back healthy, I like his versatility and catching the ball out of the backfield.
davenport - Bring him back, give him a shot to be Willie's backup.
wilson - In the last year of his deal and has been inconsistent at best.
washington - Nate comes back, he needs to step it up this year, it's his time to shine and grab that number 3 WR spot.
reid - makes this team with his return game, and hopefully becomes a productive number 4 WR for now, and then see what happens.

Ambridge
02-24-2007, 07:53 PM
Morey-A Cowher crony.......see you later.
Logan-See above
Colclough-His performance last season sealed his fate
Haynes-An injury prone second tier player who will never be an effective
starter.

tony hipchest
02-24-2007, 08:18 PM
gardocki - Gone
morey - Keep if possible because he can play WR, but only if he's cheap.
iwouma - Must have, gotta keep no matter what. Our ST is better when he plays.
It doesnt matter if Iwouma is a starter or not, we need him on ST.
Kriedwalt - ST demon, doesnt scare anybody at MLB though. If I had to keep 2 ST's it would be Morey and Iwouma most likely. Iwouma for sure and it's a toss up between Clint and Sean.


kirschke - Keep if possible, he's good depth and comes cheap.
logan - Probably will have to cut, he's lost a step and injured too much. I do like him though, he's a trooper.
phillip - Keeping Philip depends on what happens at Center. If Okobi gets the job and Kendall stays at guard, then keep Philip. If Kendall gets the job and Okobi is a backup, then cut Philip.



colclough - worthless, get rid of him
madison - has some potential, definitely on the bubble
haynes - if he comes back healthy, I like his versatility and catching the ball out of the backfield.
davenport - Bring him back, give him a shot to be Willie's backup.
wilson - In the last year of his deal and has been inconsistent at best.
washington - Nate comes back, he needs to step it up this year, it's his time to shine and grab that number 3 WR spot.
reid - makes this team with his return game, and hopefully becomes a productive number 4 WR for now, and then see what happens.

ok so thats about 5 roster spots i see open for our 8-9 draft picks. keep in mind we shitcanned half our picks from last year and are in a very bad cap position compared to most teams. also keep in mind we have alot of players to resign going into the 08 season (polamalu, faneca, smith-i think). do we really want to pay iwouma and morey the vet minimum of 700,000+ when an ufa only makes 300,000+? or do we wanna let pro bowlers go so we can keep our second and 3rd string scrubs?

if tomlin is gonna use starters as special teamers dont we need players who can actually spell the starters and give them a blow? kriedwalt, morey, and iwouma havent actually proven to be those guys. there jobs are negated by the scheme tomlin will bring in.

House of Steel
02-24-2007, 08:32 PM
with an overhaul of our coaching staff, its obvious there is an eye towards the future, moreso than an eye towards the now. with this being the case, roster spots for players we can plug in or develop for the future is just about as important as cap space.

last year we saw plenty of wasted draft picks. was it because they were crappy players or because they may have been good but there was no room for them on the roster?

tomlin has said he believes in starters playing special teams. of course after our special teams debaucle in the 01 afcc game cowher said we would see more of this too. not only was our special teams ineffective last year, it was rather old

gardocki--Goner for sure, this guy is overrated and overpaid.
morey-- CUT HIM!!!
iwouma--I would keep him for special team returns until Reid can prove he is healthy again and reliable
(does any one see iwouma or morey as starter potential?-- NO, but as special teamers, yes.)

kirschke-- Sign him cheap, since he is a great reliable backup.
logan-- He is a solid backup at Safety and a good veteran, keep him cheap.(will they ever see any starting time? Absolutely not since we gotgood talent here. )

phillip
(is he gonna play center if okolbi gets hurt, or is it more effective to slide simmons over and use his back up?-- Slide Simmons over, I think he could become a dominant center with a lot of work on this position at minicamps and training camp, I wouldn't be surprised to see Phillip cut.)

if we draft a cb, rb, or wr, either it will be a wasted pick or some of these players will have to go (consider- lee mays and players like that have been pretty much useless)

colclough-- This guy really burns me sometimes, I say he is going to make it as the last CB or he is going bye bye.
madison-- CUT!!
haynes-- I used to enjoy watching him, but now his health is a grave concern and it will cost him dearly, bye.davenport-- I really would like for him to stay with the Steelers, He was efficient and came through in clutch time. He really lit some eyes up with his returns on special team. He can be used in emergency situation at ST and RB.
wilson-- He is a goner! This was one FA mistake the Steelers would love to forget
washington-- He shown some potential last season, but he needs to work on his catches, dropping sure TD and screwing up on the line of scrimmage. He is going to need to show consistency and brillance in training camp.
reid-- Health is a big question mark for Reid, can he live up to the former hype of being a special team specialist like he was at Florida State? He has much to prove if he is going to stay long term as a Steeler. If he can regain his confidence and prove himself, I can see him topping out as a number 4 WR also like Matt mentioned.
i dont think the steelers problem has been evaluating talent. i think a problem has been retaining players who "know our [sometimes too complex] system" even though they may not have been the best talent.

with the streamlining of our "system" this may give us flexibility we have not seen. its possible any if not many of the names i mentioned could be gone.

so who is the dead weight that will never contribute and needs to go?

That is my opinion. I think it is a good one too.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-24-2007, 08:32 PM
You can't have starters play all the time on special teams. You need to have some guys that will be the main the special teamers. Guys who's specialty is coverage units and the return game. Tomlin will play starters on ST but he won't get rid of all our specialty guys. Every team has them. What are you going to do if starters go down and we have to fill their starting roles with backups ? You can't play all the backups on ST too because if they go down too, you're screwed.

Im not saying all those guys I mentioned will make the team but based on who we have to resign like Troy, Alan, etc. who's roster spots are already guaranteed anyways, getting rid of some of those players we've been talking about will free up spots for some draft picks to step in. You know know who's not going to make the team that's a backup or starter now, but what I posted before is just my thoughts on players that will probably still be here. Tomlin will make his changes and bring in new players, but don't discount all of our previous guys on that list not being here next year.