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Stone
09-09-2014, 05:23 PM
I am usually not a big time homer but I have high hopes for this season so here goes:
1. The O line looked good and should just get better
2. Wheaton seems to have figured out how to play tough
3. The young defense will get better as they learn lessons the hard way.
4. Ike sucks..........can't sugar coat it
5. Bell is going to be an unstoppable multi-faceted threat
6. Troy can still do some things
7. Hopefully the secondary can find their groove
8. Ike sucks..........can't sugar coat it

We have to kick the Ravens while they are down and we are off to a 2-0 start with a nice schedule for a few weeks.

ChucktownSteeler
09-09-2014, 05:25 PM
I agree with all above especially #4 and #8. The secondary will improve when this POS is benched.

Steeltrap
09-09-2014, 05:45 PM
Ike Taylor cow dong.

Rollers
09-09-2014, 06:24 PM
Some here will say Ike is really good we just don't understand the defense. Or "Ike was supposed to get over the top help from the safety" Ike gets toasted short and long. If he's not getting beat he's holding. Yes I get that there are more holding calls being called this year. He can't catch. I wonder how many points we've given up after dropping an int? Allen dropped one to I believe. That would be an interesting stat no? Oh well, I just don't understand the defense, which is probably true. Ike has to go. Gay is playing better right now.

Stone
09-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Some here will say Ike is really good we just don't understand the defense. Or "Ike was supposed to get over the top help from the safety" Ike gets toasted short and long. If he's not getting beat he's holding. Yes I get that there are more holding calls being called this year. He can't catch. I wonder how many points we've given up after dropping an int? Allen dropped one to I believe. That would be an interesting stat no? Oh well, I just don't understand the defense, which is probably true. Ike has to go. Gay is playing better right now.

Not to mention, he can't tackle.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-09-2014, 08:32 PM
All the Ike bashing reminds me of Hamp's last year or two... You guys sounded like idiots then too

KevinE
09-09-2014, 08:36 PM
I have NO issues with Sundays win. It was week one, I'm over it and ready for Thursday...

Willie Gay was the game changer on D Sunday.

Stone
09-10-2014, 07:04 AM
All the Ike bashing reminds me of Hamp's last year or two... You guys sounded like idiots then too

Seriously? You think he's going to turn it around and be a stud this year?

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 08:14 AM
Seriously? You think he's going to turn it around and be a stud this year?

Nope.

But I do think the majority are incompetent when it comes to dissecting play on the field.

"Guy caught ball, Ike sucks"

My favorite part is how some people have taken legitimate play dissection and tried to mock it ("help over the top").

I'll be watching the all 22 tonight, and have a much better idea of how Ike and others played last Sunday.

Stone
09-10-2014, 08:17 AM
Nope.

But I do think the majority are incompetent when it comes to dissecting play on the field.

"Guy caught ball, Ike sucks"

My favorite part is how some people have taken legitimate play dissection and tried to mock it ("help over the top").

I'll be watching the all 22 tonight, and have a much better idea of how Ike and others played last Sunday.

I'm not into dissecting at any level beyond fact.....Ike can't catch, Ike can't tackle, Ike gets flagged.....and .......now...... Ike struggles to cover

cali_fan
09-10-2014, 10:04 AM
10-6

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 10:18 AM
I'm not into dissecting at any level beyond fact.....Ike can't catch, Ike can't tackle, Ike gets flagged.....and .......now...... Ike struggles to cover

have fun with your kindergarten level

Stone
09-10-2014, 10:50 AM
have fun with your kindergarten level

Blow me *******!

And BTW, that wasn't an invitation:nono:

steelchamp204
09-10-2014, 12:39 PM
Hamptons last year was a pain to watch. He looked tired jogging out to the huddle basically.

Ike had a rough preseason and first game. I know its only preseason, but weren't we judging Jarvis Jones also during preseason. So it's only fair.

All we hear is, it starts with the front 7. It's very true, but when the ball is there to be intercepted, then make the ****ing play and create a turnover.

Our tackling was pretty **** poor also. Shazier and his athleticism will create turnovers and plays in the backfield. It seems as if every game he is there for a pick or just gets his fingertips on it.

I can see him having 3 INTS this season.

coldrolled
09-10-2014, 12:57 PM
Hamptons last year was a pain to watch. He looked tired jogging out to the huddle basically.

Ike had a rough preseason and first game. I know its only preseason, but weren't we judging Jarvis Jones also during preseason. So it's only fair.

All we hear is, it starts with the front 7. It's very true, but when the ball is there to be intercepted, then make the ****ing play and create a turnover.

Our tackling was pretty **** poor also. Shazier and his athleticism will create turnovers and plays in the backfield. It seems as if every game he is there for a pick or just gets his fingertips on it.

I can see him having 3 INTS this season.

Hopefully 3 thursday night

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:01 PM
Hamptons last year was a pain to watch. He looked tired jogging out to the huddle basically.

Ike had a rough preseason and first game. I know its only preseason, but weren't we judging Jarvis Jones also during preseason. So it's only fair.

All we hear is, it starts with the front 7. It's very true, but when the ball is there to be intercepted, then make the ****ing play and create a turnover.

Our tackling was pretty **** poor also. Shazier and his athleticism will create turnovers and plays in the backfield. It seems as if every game he is there for a pick or just gets his fingertips on it.

I can see him having 3 INTS this season.

In Hampton's last season, we were 2nd against the run.... the following year (last year) we fell to 12th against the run.

In Hampton's last season, we gave up 9 rushing TDs.... the following year... 18.

3.7 YPC vs 4.3 YPC

i could go on...

People generally don't seem to get how truly special that group of front 7 players was.... Hamp, Aaron, Keisel, Harrison, Farrior... and yes, even Foote. All of those guys were players at the top of their positions. THAT front 7, is what made DLB's defense work... the current front 7 isn't even remotely in the same solar system as that group was... is there potential? sure... and a fair amount of it. But outside of Timmons, who has never reached Farriors level of play, there isn't a single player yet fit, to carry their "super bowl era" counterparts jock strap.

Hampton was a game changer... til the last snap of his career

Taking Ike out, changes nothing... we have to live with the growing pains of a young, new, inexperienced, and developing front 7.

coldrolled
09-10-2014, 01:04 PM
In Hampton's last season, we were 2nd against the run.... the following year (last year) we fell to 12th against the run.

In Hampton's last season, we gave up 9 rushing TDs.... the following year... 18.

I guess McCullers needs to get a shot..

JensK
09-10-2014, 01:07 PM
In Hampton's last season, we were 2nd against the run.... the following year (last year) we fell to 12th against the run.

In Hampton's last season, we gave up 9 rushing TDs.... the following year... 18.

While thats true, Hampton was not the only one starting to turn dramatically downhill in terms of production around that time. Making a direct correlation between him stopping and those numbers going up is only telling part of the story.

As for Ike, I don't understand why some keep defending him. He has been a very very good CB for the Steelers, but he just aint anymore. He might still be the best option we have, but he is just being beat so many times. Sure, some of the times he did not get the help he thought he would get, but its clear that he has lost a step or two.

And just inb4 the Steeleraddict shitstorm: 1. Yes, I've watched all the plays! 2. No, I do not have a spreadsheet of every single play and will, as such, not provide any detailed numbers! 3. I do not think we should bench Ike, cause we have noone better. Thats a sign of Steelers neglecting the position draft-wise, and letting talent go.

LatrobePA
09-10-2014, 01:11 PM
Ike sucks... Lead hands has cost him many many pro bowl trips!

Stone
09-10-2014, 01:13 PM
Ike sucks... Lead hands has cost him many many pro bowl trips!

But at least he used to be able to cover.

JensK
09-10-2014, 01:14 PM
Ike sucks... Lead hands has cost him many many pro bowl trips!

I mean, look no further than the Browns game. That was as easy an interception as they come, and he only barely got a hand on the football. Thats just poor fundementals: its hard to catch something if you are unable to atleast predect the tradiction of the ball enough to put your hand on it. Its rather comical to witness at times.

Then again, its not like the rest of our secondary are interception machines.

steelchamp204
09-10-2014, 01:15 PM
In Hampton's last season, we were 2nd against the run.... the following year (last year) we fell to 12th against the run.

In Hampton's last season, we gave up 9 rushing TDs.... the following year... 18.

3.7 YPC vs 4.3 YPC

i could go on...

People generally don't seem to get how truly special that group of front 7 players was.... Hamp, Aaron, Keisel, Harrison, Farrior... and yes, even Foote. All of those guys were players at the top of their positions. THAT front 7, is what made DLB's defense work... the current front 7 isn't even remotely in the same solar system as that group was... is there potential? sure... and a fair amount of it. But outside of Timmons, who has never reached Farriors level of play, there isn't a single player yet fit, to carry their "super bowl era" counterparts jock strap.

Hampton was a game changer... til the last snap of his career

Taking Ike out, changes nothing... we have to live with the growing pains of a young, new, inexperienced, and developing front 7.

It was painful to watch Thomas trying to move down the line when the run went down the line, he couldn't do it. McCleondon did ok but I still feel the line of

Tuitt/McCullers/Cam will give us the best shot to improve, along with Keisel coming in a rotating with Cam. Or maybe at least give MccULLERS more reps and Tuitt.

Stone
09-10-2014, 01:17 PM
In Hampton's last season, we were 2nd against the run.... the following year (last year) we fell to 12th against the run.

In Hampton's last season, we gave up 9 rushing TDs.... the following year... 18.

3.7 YPC vs 4.3 YPC

i could go on...

People generally don't seem to get how truly special that group of front 7 players was.... Hamp, Aaron, Keisel, Harrison, Farrior... and yes, even Foote. All of those guys were players at the top of their positions. THAT front 7, is what made DLB's defense work... the current front 7 isn't even remotely in the same solar system as that group was... is there potential? sure... and a fair amount of it. But outside of Timmons, who has never reached Farriors level of play, there isn't a single player yet fit, to carry their "super bowl era" counterparts jock strap.

Hampton was a game changer... til the last snap of his career

Taking Ike out, changes nothing... we have to live with the growing pains of a young, new, inexperienced, and developing front 7.

You pretend to be smarter than everyone else, but you make a statement like this? If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who could cover reasonably well it would make a HUGE difference! If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who didn't get flagged 2-4 times per game it would make a HUGE difference!

JensK
09-10-2014, 01:20 PM
You pretend to be smarter than everyone else, but you make a statement like this? If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who could cover reasonably well it would make a HUGE difference! If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who didn't get flagged 2-4 times per game it would make a HUGE difference!

And this is where your argument falls apart, simply because: We have no one better. Thats the issue. I know a few still likes to defend Ike, but in reality the majority of us thinks Ike is a shadow of what he used to be. Some of it has to do with him getting older. Some of it has to do with the passrush being pretty poor right now. Some of it has to do with the way we're handling the safety play (which has changed drastically). For whatever reason it may be, Ike is not performing like he used to. We just do not have anyone to replace him. We forfeit that when we let Lewis go for next to nothing. So yeah, Ike is horrible, but he is still the best option we've got.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:20 PM
While thats true, Hampton was not the only one starting to turn dramatically downhill in terms of production around that time. Making a direct correlation between him stopping and those numbers going up is only telling part of the story.

Yes, the part where an elite NT, shut down the middle of the field for a decade.

We lost lots of guys before Hamp, and remained at the top of the league as a run defense until Hamp was gone...


As for Ike, I don't understand why some keep defending him. He has been a very very good CB for the Steelers, but he just aint anymore. He might still be the best option we have, but he is just being beat so many times. Sure, some of the times he did not get the help he thought he would get, but its clear that he has lost a step or two.

Darrell Revis must suck... Mike Wallace beat him all over the field. Until you recognize that New England had no pass rush.


And just inb4 the Steeleraddict shitstorm: 1. Yes, I've watched all the plays! 2. No, I do not have a spreadsheet of every single play and will, as such, not provide any detailed numbers! 3. I do not think we should bench Ike, cause we have noone better. Thats a sign of Steelers neglecting the position draft-wise, and letting talent go.

I'll be watching the All 22 tonight... you know, the tape where you can actually SEE cornerbacks play football on every snap...

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:22 PM
You pretend to be smarter than everyone else, but you make a statement like this? If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who could cover reasonably well it would make a HUGE difference! If they took Ike out and replaced him with someone who didn't get flagged 2-4 times per game it would make a HUGE difference!

If whoever they replace him with has to cover for 4-5 seconds on every snap, the results would be roughly the same.

You don't understand coverage... you see completions/TDs/Penalties... and your reaction is "bad coverage"...

Stone
09-10-2014, 01:25 PM
If whoever they replace him with has to cover for 4-5 seconds on every snap, the results would be roughly the same.

You don't understand coverage... you see completions/TDs/Penalties... and your reaction is "bad coverage"...

Here is what I see......"if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, I'm calling it a duck" You can site your intellectual prowess that allows you to call it an elephant but it's still a duck to most of us.

JensK
09-10-2014, 01:30 PM
Yes, the part where an elite NT, shut down the middle of the field for a decade.

We lost lots of guys before Hamp, and remained at the top of the league as a run defense until Hamp was gone...



Darrell Revis must suck... Mike Wallace beat him all over the field. Until you recognize that New England had no pass rush.



I'll be watching the All 22 tonight... you know, the tape where you can actually SEE cornerbacks play football on every snap...

Well, if 81 yards and a lost fumble is "being all over" someone, then yeah I guess you are right. Revis sucks. In any case, you are hardly proving anything with that. Revis has for the last couple of years been amazing, which you obviously know. Ike Taylor, however, was ranked 97th among the 110 cornerbacks who played on at least 25 percent of their team’s snaps last year. And thats according to your beloved PFF, so yeah...

As for Hampton, I'm not claming he was not an elite NT. I was a big Hampton supporter. However, I don't agree that he was the sole reason why we were amazing against the run with him in, and terrible the year after. I agree its some of the reason, but not all of it.

Also, I'm sure you'll enjoy the All 22! But spare me for the condescending tone; I've had gamepass for several years, so I'm not stranger to watching coaches film for every Steelers game.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:32 PM
I agree that Ike is a shell of his former self.

In our scheme, whomever you replace him with, is going to look equally "bad"... if the front 7 cant generate pressure and we continue to play deeper zone safeties that require bigger single coverage zone looks.

It's also worth noting that the Steelers have changed schematically up front in major ways over the last 2 seasons (since Hamp departure).

The lack of the dominant ability to put teams in 2nd and 3rd and long, and allow the fire zone to tee off with havoc wreaking talent (Harrison), allowing corners to squat the 1st is effectively gone.

Ike Taylor's talent's were a perfect fit for that scheme (excellent closer and wrap up tackler, with the athleticism to go vertical when needed). He's an old version of the same player... but the scheme doesn't produce the scenarios that made him successful. The scheme has been augmented, and the results aren't what we are used to. And thus, Ike... and any zone corner on this team, is going to get abused.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:36 PM
Well, if 81 yards and a lost fumble is "being all over" someone, then yeah I guess you are right. Revis sucks. In any case, you are hardly proving anything with that. Revis has for the last couple of years been amazing, which you obviously know. Ike Taylor, however, was ranked 97th among the 110 cornerbacks who played on at least 25 percent of their team’s snaps last year. And thats according to your beloved PFF, so yeah...

scheme. scheme. scheme.
Go look at PFFs rankings of the Green Bay CBs in years where they were dominant pass rushers vs years when they weren't. Same CB... top of the rankings 1 year.... bottom the next.

Coverage and Pass Rush are a symbiotic relationship


As for Hampton, I'm not claming he was not an elite NT. I was a big Hampton supporter. However, I don't agree that he was the sole reason why we were amazing against the run with him in, and terrible the year after. I agree its some of the reason, but not all of it.

it's the main reason.
we lost our 2 gap nose... it was so dramatic, that Lebeau altered the scheme/tech up front for the 1st time in his career


Also, I'm sure you'll enjoy the All 22! But spare me for the condescending tone; I've had gamepass for several years, so I'm not stranger to watching coaches film for every Steelers game.

good, we can chat about Ike on a snap by snap basis tomorrow.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:44 PM
The crux of the issue, is that Lebeau has modified his approach up front. Instead of mammoth run stuffers (hamp, smith), we've moved to more speed/penetrators (heyward, mcclendon). This makes sense as the league has moved on from run heavy offenses. The glory days saw the steelers success through their ability to remove the running game, and put teams in predictable long passing downs.

So, we changed what we did up front... but in return we sacrificed the holy grail of the defense (creating predictability, passing long).... now, we no longer put teams in those scenarios as we are not nearly the dominant force we once were against the run.

the problem... is that we augmented nothing on the back end last year (we have a bit this year - we'll get back to that). Our corners are still playing those same coverages that everyone cries about, but we are no longer forcing 3rd and long as frequently (where that zone blitz coverage is most successful).

Now, we have compensated by playing more 2 deep safety looks, and more cover 3... to compensate for how often we got beat deep last year... so, that's a good sign at least.

the story is that we are playing a relatively new variation of the DLB defense... something that stayed rather static for a decade. it's going to take some time...

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 01:51 PM
Here is what I see......"if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, I'm calling it a duck" You can site your intellectual prowess that allows you to call it an elephant but it's still a duck to most of us.

That's fine... you are capable of determining that it's a duck. Can you tell me if it's a Mallard, a Pekin, a Cayuga, or a Rouen... what is it'ss country of origin, what is its foraging style and temperment?

So good job identifying that Ike is a corner, and had some penalties against, and some catches in his vicinity... enjoy recess.

Big T
09-10-2014, 01:53 PM
If whoever they replace him with has to cover for 4-5 seconds on every snap, the results would be roughly the same.

You don't understand coverage... you see completions/TDs/Penalties... and your reaction is "bad coverage"...

Exactly this. Thank you.

steelchamp204
09-10-2014, 01:57 PM
When Hampt retired, wasn't that the season Smith blow out his bicep? Its bugging me. Or was that is Hamptons final year. Maybe Im way off here.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 02:02 PM
When Hampt retired, wasn't that the season Smith blow out his bicep? Its bugging me. Or was that is Hamptons final year. Maybe Im way off here.

nope

Smith blew himself out in 2009 (5 games played), 2010 (6 games played) and 2011 (4 games played).
It's important to note, the Steelers remained a top tier run d in all those years.

2012 was Hampton's last season (Smith retired at the end of 2011).

Stone
09-10-2014, 02:25 PM
That's fine... you are capable of determining that it's a duck. Can you tell me if it's a Mallard, a Pekin, a Cayuga, or a Rouen... what is it'ss country of origin, what is its foraging style and temperment?

So good job identifying that Ike is a corner, and had some penalties against, and some catches in his vicinity... enjoy recess.

Wow you are a pompous ***! Why don't you give us a detailed description of what type of elephant it is?

TarlsQtr
09-10-2014, 03:04 PM
If whoever they replace him with has to cover for 4-5 seconds on every snap, the results would be roughly the same.

You don't understand coverage... you see completions/TDs/Penalties... and your reaction is "bad coverage"...

Kudos.

The Aaron Dobson TD last season was a perfect example of this (and there were others) even though Ike DID have a bad season.

The guffaws on this board about how badly he burned Ike were maddening and then the next day Ryan Clark said it was his fault. It happens all of the time here.

And for the record, Casey was still a stud and easily our best NT when he retired. Had his performance diminished? Some, but he was still a mountain in the middle. What brought about his demise was reduction of necessity for a huge NT (the same issue Big Dan will always have) as the offenses trended to the pass. It was always fat and slow Casey plodding off the field but we only saw it more his last couple of years as the trend to sub packages began.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Kudos.

The Aaron Dobson TD last season was a perfect example of this (and there were others) even though Ike DID have a bad season.

The guffaws on this board about how badly he burned Ike were maddening and then the next day Ryan Clark said it was his fault. It happens all of the time here.

yup.


And for the record, Casey was still a stud and easily our best NT when he retired. Had his performance diminished? Some, but he was still a mountain in the middle. What brought about his demise was reduction of necessity for a huge NT (the same issue Big Dan will always have) as the offenses trended to the pass. It was always fat and slow Casey plodding off the field but we only saw it more his last couple of years as the trend to sub packages began.

and there in lies the pink elephant... can Lebeau put together an effective defense when a core component of what made his scheme so successful is being retired from the game.

and the flip side of that argument... are the results last year (and already showing this year), due to the talent level/youth... or the ineffectiveness of the scheme as it'd been modified?

K Train
09-10-2014, 04:06 PM
The crux of the issue, is that Lebeau has modified his approach up front. Instead of mammoth run stuffers (hamp, smith), we've moved to more speed/penetrators (heyward, mcclendon). This makes sense as the league has moved on from run heavy offenses. The glory days saw the steelers success through their ability to remove the running game, and put teams in predictable long passing downs.

So, we changed what we did up front... but in return we sacrificed the holy grail of the defense (creating predictability, passing long).... now, we no longer put teams in those scenarios as we are not nearly the dominant force we once were against the run.

the problem... is that we augmented nothing on the back end last year (we have a bit this year - we'll get back to that). Our corners are still playing those same coverages that everyone cries about, but we are no longer forcing 3rd and long as frequently (where that zone blitz coverage is most successful).

Now, we have compensated by playing more 2 deep safety looks, and more cover 3... to compensate for how often we got beat deep last year... so, that's a good sign at least.

the story is that we are playing a relatively new variation of the DLB defense... something that stayed rather static for a decade. it's going to take some time...
Good post/insight.

Everyone is so quick to say "lebeau sucks" "hes stuck in his ways" "he never changes" "he should retire" "his scheme is outdated"

Yes, the previous scheme was out dated....which is why we havent drafted a NT in the 1st or second round like so many think is the fix all because as been jammed down our throats by ESPN for a decade "the key to the 34 defense is the NT"...well thats not true anymore, if anyone thinks having a casey hampton or even a dan mcculers on the field would have stopped the browns from running on them in the no huddle they are fooling themselves, almost everything was outside....a NT would be rendered useless and be gassed out. A NT cant "occupy two blockers and disrupt things) when someone is running a stretch zone, unless they have freakish lateral ability like Poe i guess.

The jets rotate **** at NT and have two absolute studs at end, same with the niners, the texans, ect.

coldrolled
09-10-2014, 04:06 PM
What defense does seattle use? obviously stops the Broncos and Packers

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 04:21 PM
What defense does seattle use? obviously stops the Broncos and Packers

They use a very unique hybrid front... they mix a 5tech and an UT rotation. They put a wide9 on one end. It's really cool stuff... and I'm jealous.

Then they basically zone their Mike and Strong, and let their Will roam.

And on the outside they play a strict discipline of Man Cover 1/Single High... and Zone Cover 3.... except, they line it up identically so often it's impossible to diagnos pre-snap.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 04:24 PM
Good post/insight.

Everyone is so quick to say "lebeau sucks" "hes stuck in his ways" "he never changes" "he should retire" "his scheme is outdated"

Yes, the previous scheme was out dated....which is why we havent drafted a NT in the 1st or second round like so many think is the fix all because as been jammed down our throats by ESPN for a decade "the key to the 34 defense is the NT"...well thats not true anymore, if anyone thinks having a casey hampton or even a dan mcculers on the field would have stopped the browns from running on them in the no huddle they are fooling themselves, almost everything was outside....a NT would be rendered useless and be gassed out. A NT cant "occupy two blockers and disrupt things) when someone is running a stretch zone, unless they have freakish lateral ability like Poe i guess.

The jets rotate **** at NT and have two absolute studs at end, same with the niners, the texans, ect.

my problem is that I believe being heavily reliant on zone coverage is outdated... and we've seen nothing that tells us that is changing. QBs are too smart these days. Releases are too quick, strong, and accurate...

If the goal is to win a super bowl, you have to assume you are going to have to go through at least 2-3 very good QBs...

coldrolled
09-10-2014, 04:29 PM
They use a very unique hybrid front... they mix a 5tech and an UT rotation. They put a wide9 on one end. It's really cool stuff... and I'm jealous.

Then they basically zone their Mike and Strong, and let their Will roam.

And on the outside they play a strict discipline of Man Cover 1/Single High... and Zone Cover 3.... except, they line it up identically so often it's impossible to diagnos pre-snap.

How many teams copied DL's 3-4.... so, then maybe its time for us to copy someone else..

NeilPatrickBanana
09-10-2014, 04:49 PM
How many teams copied DL's 3-4.... so, then maybe its time for us to copy someone else..

But who else is employing DLs 3-4 today... no one.

steelchamp204
09-10-2014, 11:56 PM
It will not change either, I believe Butler is hell bent on keeping the same scheme IF he is the one to succeed DL.

I wish we would go to a 4-3 and man coverage, but this team has drafted players over the years that fit a 3-4 scheme.

Cant our CBS play up like man and jam or disrupt the route and fall back into zone? I think we had something when we beat the Pats with that defense that one night, just wish we would have stuck with it, well at least pressing on the los.

K Train
09-11-2014, 09:52 AM
It will not change either, I believe Butler is hell bent on keeping the same scheme IF he is the one to succeed DL.
.
Theres been nothing to indicate this. A guy gets promoted he might use influences from the guy he was working for but hes likely to make some pretty big changes. Ray Horton for instance

steelchamp204
09-11-2014, 10:14 AM
Theres been nothing to indicate this. A guy gets promoted he might use influences from the guy he was working for but hes likely to make some pretty big changes. Ray Horton for instance

There has been something to indicate this. I know it hasn't been written in stone, but I heard it from a radio standpoint and I believe I read it in an article. He wants to stick with the DL defense and keep it as a bend but don't break defense. I'm not stirring the pot, but I did see it somewhere.

TarlsQtr
09-11-2014, 10:28 AM
Theres been nothing to indicate this. A guy gets promoted he might use influences from the guy he was working for but hes likely to make some pretty big changes. Ray Horton for instance

I believe there is a lot from a common sense standpoint to indicate not much would change.

1) Tomlin has shown no desire to change. The only time I even remember talk about it was when he was first hired as a Tampa 2 disciple.
2) Butler has never led a defense at the pro level or been an assistant under a great defensive coach other than DLB. It is not like he has a scheme in his back pocket.
3) We have not been drafting 4-3 types of guys and 3-4 is more suitable for the modern offenses, IMO.

Any changes will be on the edges, IMO.

To slightly change the topic, the entire DLB conversation reminds me of Chuck Noll. Everyone was calling him a PoS (The game has passed him by!) his last couple of years, similar to the treatment of DLB. It will not be until DLB has been gone a few years until everyone appreciates him.

K Train
09-11-2014, 10:32 AM
I believe there is a lot from a common sense standpoint to indicate not much would change.

1) Tomlin has shown no desire to change. The only time I even remember talk about it was when he was first hired as a Tampa 2 disciple.
2) Butler has never led a defense at the pro level or been an assistant under a great defensive coach other than DLB. It is not like he has a scheme in his back pocket.
3) We have not been drafting 4-3 types of guys and 3-4 is more suitable for the modern offenses, IMO.

Any changes will be on the edges, IMO.

To slightly change the topic, the entire DLB conversation reminds me of Chuck Noll. Everyone was calling him a PoS (The game has passed him by!) his last couple of years, similar to the treatment of DLB. It will not be until DLB has been gone a few years until everyone appreciates him.
Butler has a job right now, coaching the linebackers....we have no idea what he would do if hes handed the reigns. Im sure hes learned a lot from lebeau, but i dont think they are breeding a carbon copy. Im not talking about something as drastica as switching from 34 to 43, im talking about implicated new coverages, seeking out different talents, being innovative in his own right in order to be successful.

I dont think we are just going to see the same exact defense if/when butler takes over

TarlsQtr
09-11-2014, 10:35 AM
Butler has a job right now, coaching the linebackers....we have no idea what he would do if hes handed the reigns. Im sure hes learned a lot from lebeau, but i dont think they are breeding a carbon copy. Im not talking about something as drastica as switching from 34 to 43, im talking about implicated new coverages, seeking out different talents, being innovative in his own right in order to be successful.

I dont think we are just going to see the same exact defense if/when butler takes over

Well, then I guess we agree for the most part.

Stone
09-11-2014, 04:42 PM
One more point about last week. How do you make a half time adjustment against nothing? At half time they looked at what the Browns did well in the first half and found absolutely nothing to change!

K Train
09-11-2014, 04:53 PM
halftime adjustments are rarely made when what you are doing is kicking the opponents *** at half time.

Hopefully they learned from this, the browns players and coaches are professionals too

Big T
09-11-2014, 06:02 PM
browns players and coaches are professionals too

Which is what most Steelers fans fail to realize as well.