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steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 01:04 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers

Top needs: CB, WR, DL, OL

Round 1 (15) WR Odell Beckham Jr., LSU
Round 2 (46) DT Louis Nix III, Notre Dame
Round 3 (97) CB/S Antone Exum, Virginia Tech (Comp)

Analysis: Sorry, but the addition of Darrius Heyward-Bey doesn't fix the depth chart at wide receiver, so I grab Beckham here. With Gilbert and Dennard off the board, I can't take a corner in a reasonable value range at No. 15. Beckham is an explosive talent, a pass-catcher who creates problems for defenses after the catch because he's such a special accelerator. I add needed talent on the interior of the defensive line in Round 2. Dick LeBeau can do some things with Nix, who doesn't always play to the level he should given his ability to move at that size, but has a chance to be good. Jimmie Ward is a tough guy to pass on at No. 46, given a depth need at safety, but in getting Exum in Round 3 I add a corner with the size to transition to safety if that's a better fit.

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 01:05 PM
I don't see Nix being there at 46, I think a team will reach for him in the first.

K Train
04-03-2014, 01:06 PM
I dont know how i would feel about Beckham.

Love Nix in 2 though

Spike
04-03-2014, 01:12 PM
WR Odell Beckham 6'0, 185?

Oh Mel, stop it, another smurf?

He didn't exactly show up in big games against top teams either...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/517215/odell-beckham


Ben will not be happy

K Train
04-03-2014, 01:16 PM
His size is fine, i just hate the value. Take Lee or Matthews there if you want a WR thats not 6-5+

Spike
04-03-2014, 01:29 PM
more talk...


ESPN draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay talked in-depth about the Steelers' draft earlier this week, and the two agree that cornerback is probably the team's biggest need.

But McShay isn't as enthused as Kiper is about the Steelers taking one with the 15th overall pick of the draft.

McShay said he is not sure there is a cornerback worth taking that high even if players such as Oklahoma State's Justin Gilbert and Michigan State's Darqueze Dennard are available.

I think I would probably go wide receiver or offensive line in the first round depending on what's available and then maybe coming back cornerback in Round 2, McShay said on ESPN's First Draft podcast.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/78491/kiper-jr-mcshay-talk-steelers-draft

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 01:34 PM
more talk...


ESPN draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay talked in-depth about the Steelers' draft earlier this week, and the two agree that cornerback is probably the team's biggest need.

But McShay isn't as enthused as Kiper is about the Steelers taking one with the 15th overall pick of the draft.

McShay said he is not sure there is a cornerback worth taking that high even if players such as Oklahoma State's Justin Gilbert and Michigan State's Darqueze Dennard are available.

“I think I would probably go wide receiver or offensive line in the first round depending on what's available and then maybe coming back cornerback in Round 2,” McShay said on ESPN's First Draft podcast.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/78491/kiper-jr-mcshay-talk-steelers-draft

Gilbert will be gone, if Dennard is there, DLs system takes away his talents as being a press corner. He would have to play zone. If you are going to draft the best CB in the draft for a zone system this best CB in the first for the Steelers would be.

Kyle Fuller

TarlsQtr
04-03-2014, 01:40 PM
Gilbert will be gone, if Dennard is there, DLs system takes away his talents as being a press corner. He would have to play zone. If you are going to draft the best CB in the draft for a zone system this best CB in the first for the Steelers would be.

Kyle Fuller

Ike played a lot of man. Dennard could too.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-03-2014, 01:45 PM
if we passed on Jimmie Ward at 46... i'd be very angry

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 01:46 PM
Ike played a lot of man. Dennard could too.

I still think Fuller is just as good as Dennard, if they want to go with CB in the first, trade back and go with Fuller. Get the extra pick.

Spike
04-03-2014, 02:07 PM
Gilbert will be gone, if Dennard is there, DLs system takes away his talents as being a press corner. He would have to play zone.

depends on who you listen to...the game is changing

The changing face of pass defense and what it means for the future of the Steeler secondary

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2014/3/6/5475298/the-changing-face-of-pass-defense-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 02:11 PM
depends on who you listen to...the game is changing

]The changing face of pass defense and what it means for the future of the DICK LEBEAU[/I]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2014/3/6/5475298/the-changing-face-of-pass-defense-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of


Changed it for you.

Spike
04-03-2014, 02:21 PM
You saying Dick can't change?

give him the right people

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 02:46 PM
You saying Dick can't change?

give him the right people

There is probably a reason why we havent drafted a shutdown corner in the first since when??

97

Spike
04-03-2014, 02:56 PM
There is no such thing as a "shutdown corner"


Everyone gets beat........just some more than others

Black@Gold Forever32
04-03-2014, 02:56 PM
There is probably a reason why we havent drafted a shutdown corner in the first since when??

97

Please never mention Chad Scott and shutdown corner in the same sentence.......

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 03:00 PM
There is no such thing as a "shutdown corner"


Everyone gets beat

Don't be foolish, you know what I mean.

You really think Dennard would be a better pick then a Lee/Benjamin in the 1st round? Dennard will start eventually but not until next season(Yes, he can play in special packages, but lets be realistic, Ike isnt riding the bench). Benjamin would be a threat in our offense and can open things up to help out the likes of Brown/Moore/Wheaton underneath.

Only reason I would take Gilbert is that he can play Man/Zone and he can return punts/kicks also. He is another dimension.

In the 3-4 scheme that the Steelers run, it all starts with the front 7. It doesn't start with the back 4.

Like I said earlier, if you are going Dennard at 15, trade back in the first and grab a guy in Kyle Fuller who is just as good as Dennard and can play zone and man coverage.

Spike
04-03-2014, 03:05 PM
I don't want a CB at all in the 1st - why waste that pick on defense when we have no pass rush and a weak DL? I don't see a rookie corner making an impact at all on defense, even if they let him play.

Offense Offense Offense - we need points, and lots of them.

WR alllllllllllllllll the way

NeilPatrickBanana
04-03-2014, 03:06 PM
depends on who you listen to...the game is changing

The changing face of pass defense and what it means for the future of the Steeler secondary

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2014/3/6/5475298/the-changing-face-of-pass-defense-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of

Great article.
I've expressed the same sentiment.

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 03:07 PM
Great article.
I've expressed the same sentiment.

I agree, but it is up to DL and the rest of the coaches to change that. I'm not saying that DL needs to play man every down, but maybe a little more than what he does now.

steelchamp204
04-03-2014, 03:08 PM
Please never mention Chad Scott and shutdown corner in the same sentence.......

:tt02: Chad Scott

















Shutdown Corner



Ok, I kid I kid BG :grin1:

Black@Gold Forever32
04-03-2014, 04:24 PM
Just saying Chad Scott was average at best......Still having nightmares of him and DeWayne Washington getting toasted when they were are starting corners......

coldrolled
04-03-2014, 05:47 PM
I agree, but it is up to DL and the rest of the coaches to change that. I'm not saying that DL needs to play man every down, but maybe a little more than what he does now.

Especially when we kick the pats rears playing man a few years back, then playing a zone this year and getting creamed. After watching other teams beat brady by pressing and brady only really losing when pressed. just like Manning... I dont get why we play those teams any other way.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-03-2014, 07:00 PM
I agree, but it is up to DL and the rest of the coaches to change that. I'm not saying that DL needs to play man every down, but maybe a little more than what he does now.

The key to the article, and something I've referenced talking about Seattle before, is that the days of being a "this" team, or a "that" team are over. I've broke down both Seattle's front (they do everything, from 5 teching to undertackle sets, to wide 9). They aren't a 34 team or a 43 team, they do everything.

And the same goes for their secondary, but in a different fashion... they aren't a man team or a zone team... they are a cover 1 / cover 3 team... they just happen to line up in press the majority of the time, and you can't know if they are going to go cover 1 (man) or cover 3 (zone).

You have to be diverse and flexible in scheme in today's NFL...

The article combines those ideas with what you CAN'T be anymore in todays NFL.... and that just happens to be Lebeau bread and butter.

Spike
04-03-2014, 08:25 PM
You have to be diverse and flexible in scheme in today's NFL...
.



I agree


Ben is at his best when he has a O line good enough to give him time to make the big plays.

If our defense can't get a turnover to save their asses, we have to go balls to the wall on offense.

I want to believe

5 WIDE baby!

at least scare them on offense

the swagger has left the D, we all know it

3 Hypocycloids
04-03-2014, 08:49 PM
While I personally think we should draft Mike Evans, If either Gilbert or Dennard are there, I take them in the first. IMO there is depth in later rounds (2-3) at WR and we could get say, Gilbert in RD1 and Moncrief in Rd 3.

My 2c

3 Hypocycloids
04-03-2014, 08:53 PM
Spike, u padding ur post count already bud...

Spike
04-03-2014, 09:19 PM
Spike, u padding ur post count already bud...

Karma is the coin of the realm...yea verily

I bring visions from the future of our beloved Steelers if they don't listen to me

http://i.imgur.com/ZPDBmRT.gif

3 Hypocycloids
04-04-2014, 03:10 PM
Well, she stuck the landing...

greg1964
04-08-2014, 10:00 AM
I think the Steelers biggest need is CB: but if both Gilbert and Dannard are gone: I could see the Steelers going OT if one of the three top tackles still there: M. Gilbert is entering the final year of his rookie deal and has been inconsident, M. Adams has not shown he is ready for prime time and a right or left tackle. Both are being outplayed by a 7 round pick in Beachem.

I would be happy if the Steelers draft either of these player at 15:
WR: Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans (I don't believe either will be there)
CB: Justin Gilbert Darqueze Dannard ( I believe one will be there)
OL: Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan, Zack Martin (I believe Lewan and Martin could be there)

I think the draft will fall as followed: (without a trade)
1. Texans: (DE/OLB) J. Clowney
2. St. Louis: (WR) S. Watkins
3. Jacksonville: (QB) B. Bortles
4. Cleveland: (QB) T. Bridgewaters
5. Oakland: (BQ) J. Manziel
6. Atlanta: (OLB) K Mack
7. Tampa Bay (WR) M.Evans
8. Minnestota: (S) Clinton-Dix
9. Buffalo: (S) C. Pryor
10. Detroit (CD) J. Gilbert
11. Tennessee: (OT) J. Matthews
12. New York Giants (TE) E. Ebron
13. St. Louis (OT) G. Robinson
14. Chicago (DT) A. Donald

So based on how I have these picks coming off the board, that leaves (CB) Darrand, Lewan and Martin there when the Steelers pick at #15

15: Pittsburgh (CB) Darqueze Dennard

Pokey Jones
04-08-2014, 12:37 PM
The key to the article, and something I've referenced talking about Seattle before, is that the days of being a "this" team, or a "that" team are over. I've broke down both Seattle's front (they do everything, from 5 teching to undertackle sets, to wide 9). They aren't a 34 team or a 43 team, they do everything.

And the same goes for their secondary, but in a different fashion... they aren't a man team or a zone team... they are a cover 1 / cover 3 team... they just happen to line up in press the majority of the time, and you can't know if they are going to go cover 1 (man) or cover 3 (zone).


The key to Seattle's success is really quite simple, one word: SPEED. They are extremely fast and attack the play. They aren't big or overly physical but they go after the ball and gang tackle. Yes, they have mixed and hybrid schemes, but none of it would work if it wasn't for their being faster. They are the first D to adapt fully to the new rules which favor the O, the short pass in the flat, and the generally smaller and faster offenses.
A really good O line is what you need to play against them but thats a whole other topic.
So basically, we need to be drafting speed on D. Simple as that.

K Train
04-08-2014, 12:44 PM
Browner and Sherman are slowish corners, massive corners, but slowish. Chancellor doesnt have great speed, but Early thomas has incredible range/speed

They also added in a guy like Red Bryant to play DE....a massive DE. They have a healthy mix of speed and size. Schematically though, very simple

Real Deal Steel
04-08-2014, 01:22 PM
But to say the Seahawks are not physical is a mistake. They are physical.

coldrolled
04-08-2014, 02:55 PM
Saban at the bama pro day said:

If people evaluate C.J. as a football player — how fast you play; how athletic you are; how instinctive you are and how many plays you make — I would challenge anybody to show me 10 better players.

He silently works hard, doesn't look for a lot of self gratification from other people — really has fun doing what he does. He understands, though, to have fun and to be confident, you really have to invest time and earn it. He practices that way, plays that way. It is unusual today to find someone who is driven to do well in everything he aspires to.

Real Deal Steel
04-08-2014, 06:57 PM
So your saying he's already Steelerish?

NeilPatrickBanana
04-08-2014, 07:14 PM
The key to Seattle's success is really quite simple, one word: SPEED. They are extremely fast and attack the play. They aren't big or overly physical but they go after the ball and gang tackle. Yes, they have mixed and hybrid schemes, but none of it would work if it wasn't for their being faster. They are the first D to adapt fully to the new rules which favor the O, the short pass in the flat, and the generally smaller and faster offenses.
A really good O line is what you need to play against them but thats a whole other topic.
So basically, we need to be drafting speed on D. Simple as that.

I don't really agree with that assessment...
In fact, if we were arguing whether Seattle was more on the "fast" side... or more on the "physical" side... I'd argue the physical.

Bruce Irvin and Earl Thomas are fast... all their other playmakers would not typically be described as fast.

The key to their success is NOT speed. It's Scheme. And speed is 1 small factor in that scheme (Earl's role, Irvin's role)... but the other key factors are their overpowering, strong, physical front line... and their strong, physical corners who are able to play point of attack coverage, and then hand it off to the zones.

You said they AREN'T big or overly physical... but that's exactly what they are.

Having just read K train's reply... I Concur.

Pokey Jones
04-08-2014, 08:05 PM
No, I disagree with this. Scheme has very little to do with their success. They simply attack the ball and the play. Their speed allows them to play hard press coverage and they all flock to the ball carrier or receiver. Mostly speed rush the QB too. there is no great complicated scheme - that's what we do. They are all about speed and intensity.
Physical D is for dinosaurs.

coldrolled
04-08-2014, 08:22 PM
How is Roby in the second over Dennard in the first. If you go Mosley in #1??

Roby is just speedier. He is a Junior Buckeye.

Big T
04-08-2014, 08:22 PM
No, I disagree with this. Scheme has very little to do with their success. They simply attack the ball and the play. Their speed allows them to play hard press coverage and they all flock to the ball carrier or receiver. Mostly speed rush the QB too. there is no great complicated scheme - that's what we do. They are all about speed and intensity.
Physical D is for dinosaurs.

A physical defense is exactly what Seattle has.

And saying "scheme has very little to do with their success" is foolish.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-08-2014, 09:00 PM
No, I disagree with this. Scheme has very little to do with their success. They simply attack the ball and the play. Their speed allows them to play hard press coverage and they all flock to the ball carrier or receiver. Mostly speed rush the QB too. there is no great complicated scheme - that's what we do. They are all about speed and intensity.
Physical D is for dinosaurs.

I'm not convinced you could tell me much about their scheme

slashsteel
04-08-2014, 09:27 PM
Scheme , playing together as a team instead of being individuals, and a combination of speed and physical rounds up Seattle's formula. That and solid drafting...............

NeilPatrickBanana
04-08-2014, 11:11 PM
Scheme has everything to do with Seattle's success on Defense. EVERYTHING.

They have a model, and they draft players that fit the model

"Speed" is a factor... but only relative to position and scheme.

1. A single High FS with the range to lock down the deep middle. "Area 29" (Google it).
The Seahawks saw the fewest attempts to the deep middle of the field of any team in football over the last 2 years... having 1 player eliminate a large swath of the field (and arguably the most exploitable.... is unheard of. Earl Thomas is a player who essentially gives the coverage that most teams require 2 players for.

Once you've eliminated such a large area that can be attacked, it is MUCH easier to "keep the play in front". to do this you need 2 things...

2. long and strong corners, who can play press, but have the length to play bail.
Carroll is the best DB coach in the game. He has a mold, and he drafts guys who fit that mold. no questions ask... and then he teaches them. watch browner and sherman on tape... their technique is carbon copy... they look like clones when they press, they turn their hips identically. they have been programmed.

This combination allows for a deadly mix of cover 1 and cover 3. Because of the threat of your FS and because your CBs can line up formationally identical... their is never an indicator of what coverage you are getting. are you getting Cover 1, Cover 3, or a mix (one corner sticking man, the other bailing to deep zone). It's simply impossible to read.

3. You need 360 LBers.
This is probably where people see speed the most in terms of "swarming" to the ball. These LBers play in deeper sets because they are required to handle greater areas of coverage (with support from Kam).As the corners bail to cover 3, they have to be able to play deep enough to keep some of the underneath stuff in front of them, while having the wider responsibilities to crash to the flats.

Now that's just the coverage aspects of their scheme... it's not a complicated scheme... it's just a scheme that has been coached and programmed to perfection.

The seahawks front is complicated... it is a hybrid scheme. it features 5 tech fronts, and undertackle fronts... it brought the Leo position for a particular reason... but the real story here, again... is Pete Carroll. Pete Carroll designed a front for the talent he had.

Chris Clemmons is not big enough for a 43DE and he has no coverage skills to be a 34OLB... so he created a position for him (Leo). This allowed Clemmons to play in something akin to a Wide 9 and let him unleash himself at the QB. But with this outside technique you need to protect his side, so you Undertackle the DT on his side. As you know, it's very difficult to run to the weakside against an Undertackle side regardless of how weak the outside is DE is against the run, (because the UT is going to demande a double). Most 43 teams don't do a ton of Undertackle stuff, because it makes their strongside DE would take a pounding playing 5 tech against mountain tackles... enter red bryant and his scheme defining role... red 5 techs and can lock down the strong side, with SAM support... this also allows a mammoth Nose to play free gap penetration football.

It's really hard to have 2 great 43 DEs... or 2 great 34 DEs.... but the Seahawks make sure they only need 1 of each.
It's really hard to find a 43 DE who can rush the passer and be stout against the run... those guys cost A LOT
But the Seahawks find guys who can do 1 THING great, and then build the scheme to fit.

Clemmons can rush the passer... and nothing else
Mebane can UT/1 gap... and nothing else
Red can 5 tech
Bennett can 7 tech
etc

and they flip the formations around based on their opponent... against a team that ran more Power stuff, they'll flip Red and the 5 over to the weak side... they'll play Bennett more at the Leo with a 3 tech to support

i could go on and on and on....

ramble over... for now

SuperSteelers
04-09-2014, 01:32 AM
A lot of folks on this forum talk a good game and claim they know football. If your so knowledgeable and sure about yourself, why not capitalize on your knowledge and place some bets on the games? Each week post your picks with the point spread so that members of this forum can evaluate your skills. This would help to separate the pretenders from the contenders. Money talks and bullshit walks. Just my two cents when it comes to schemes, models, speeds, etc...

Nolrog
04-09-2014, 07:33 AM
IMO there is depth in later rounds (2-3) at WR and we could get say, Gilbert in RD1 and Moncrief in Rd 3.

There is also depth at corner in this draft. So I wouldn't be totally shocked if they waited until round 2 or 3 to draft one. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them trade up for one of the elite WRs (though I do think that is unlikely for the reasons you stated.)

Real Deal Steel
04-09-2014, 08:08 AM
A lot of folks on this forum talk a good game and claim they know football. If your so knowledgeable and sure about yourself, why not capitalize on your knowledge and place some bets on the games? Each week post your picks with the point spread so that members of this forum can evaluate your skills. This would help to separate the pretenders from the contenders. Money talks and bullshit walks. Just my two cents when it comes to schemes, models, speeds, etc...

this is the post of the year!!!!!

K Train
04-09-2014, 09:04 AM
I really love the roster Pete Carrol has built. Realistically they are emulating what the steelers were a few years ago. Scheme is a little different, but as far as building their roster its pretty similar.

Now they are the class on defense, league changes and things become out dated. Seattle went big and simple in a time where everyone wants to go small, fast, and complex/confusing

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 09:34 AM
I really love the roster Pete Carrol has built. Realistically they are emulating what the steelers were a few years ago. Scheme is a little different, but as far as building their roster its pretty similar.

Now they are the class on defense, league changes and things become out dated. Seattle went big and simple in a time where everyone wants to go small, fast, and complex/confusing

Thats why our first three picks need to be ILB, CB, DE

K Train
04-09-2014, 09:37 AM
Thats why are first three picks need to be ILB, CB, DE

That is just never how it works

Mike Tomlin
04-09-2014, 10:25 AM
I really love the roster Pete Carrol has built. Realistically they are emulating what the steelers were a few years ago. Scheme is a little different, but as far as building their roster its pretty similar.

Now they are the class on defense, league changes and things become out dated. Seattle went big and simple in a time where everyone wants to go small, fast, and complex/confusingI was thinking the exact same thing all last year when they started dominating teams.

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 10:30 AM
That is just never how it works

I know, but our D is filled with holes.

K Train
04-09-2014, 10:36 AM
The d has some holes, some holes that will be filled with players on the roster before they are filled with a rookie. Ignoring the offense to address the defense only is a terrible idea.

Only absolutely glaring hole on defense is RDE, and i think they bring back keisel still...who is old but still a highly productive player and imo important to the defense. As the incumbent starter and rotational player he is still a very good player

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 10:58 AM
The d has some holes, some holes that will be filled with players on the roster before they are filled with a rookie. Ignoring the offense to address the defense only is a terrible idea.

Only absolutely glaring hole on defense is RDE, and i think they bring back keisel still...who is old but still a highly productive player and imo important to the defense. As the incumbent starter and rotational player he is still a very good player

Say we go BPA ILB, TE, WR, OT in the first... Who would be a good RDE in the second.

K Train
04-09-2014, 11:04 AM
Say we go BPA ILB, TE, WR, OT in the first... Who would be a good RDE in the second.

Id love Tuitt in the second.

But Ed Stinson would be a good pick there, one of my personal favorites is Brent Urban and he could probably be had a round later

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 11:14 AM
Id love Tuitt in the second.

But Ed Stinson would be a good pick there, one of my personal favorites is Brent Urban and he could probably be had a round later

Our round in the 3rd is really a top 4th would he make it there? Tuitt would be good if he slid to us..

Ebron-Mosley-Barr in 1 No CB in the 2nd.. Maybe like a Roby in the 2nd and Urban in our 3rd.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 11:18 AM
Id love Tuitt in the second.

But Ed Stinson would be a good pick there, one of my personal favorites is Brent Urban and he could probably be had a round later

Hagenan or Tuitt is the 2nd would be incredible. I have both ranked higher than our 2nd, but either could slide.

Urban or Stinson with our 3rd (but not 2nd) would be great.

I'm a fan of Deandre Coleman who could be had with a 5th or later it seems

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 11:24 AM
1-3 some combination of WR, CB, DE

1st : Benjamin, Dennard, Hageman
2nd : Robinson, McGill, Tuitt
3rd : Bryant, Baptiste, Urban

K Train
04-09-2014, 11:30 AM
Hageman or Tuitt is the 2nd would be incredible. I have both ranked higher than our 2nd, but either could slide.

Urban or Stinson with our 3rd (but not 2nd) would be great.

I'm a fan of Deandre Coleman who could be had with a 5th or later it seems

Id say Tuitt is our best bet in the second (incredibly value for either him or Nix), Hageman is highly unlikely.

Looking outside our typical "prototype" DL I could get on board with Will Sutton in the 4th as well...early in his career he didnt look like a 34 End, but i think he may end up being that type of player. It would be in the Glenn Dorsey/Corey Luiget mold though. Its not popular but sometime players fit to schemes isnt as black and white as we like to make it (partially why Donald would be ok with me, some guys can just ball out)

What are you opinions on DaQuan Jones?

I have mixed feeling about Coleman....hes Cam Jordan as a run stuffer, but man he sucks at everything else lol

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 11:47 AM
Not a fan of jones from a talent or fit standpoint.

K Train
04-09-2014, 11:50 AM
Not a fan of jones from a talent or fit standpoint.

Me neither, I generally hate penn state players so I figured Id ask.

Except Paul, I loved Paul

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 12:33 PM
Me neither, I generally hate penn state players so I figured Id ask.

Except Paul, I loved Paul

I'm still Intrigued by Allen Robinson. He's one of those guys that looks great on tape, and blew the combine (although recovered a bit at his pro day).

He's probably #1 on my list of preferred and realistic 2nd round WR targets.

He's significantly better than Moncrief

K Train
04-09-2014, 12:39 PM
He ran 4.42 and 4.47 at pro day...great times

Moncrief is still significantly better and will be a better and more productive pro

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 01:36 PM
He ran 4.42 and 4.47 at pro day...great times

Moncrief is still significantly better and will be a better and more productive pro

I will not forget this.

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 01:53 PM
I will not forget this.

From our vantage point on draft picks, we have no idea who is lazy, dumb, clueless.. like hard hitting sylvester 55..
obviously colbert has a hard time with that too. but you know all right NPB?

steelchamp204
04-09-2014, 02:30 PM
He ran 4.42 and 4.47 at pro day...great times

Moncrief is still significantly better and will be a better and more productive pro

I highly doubt this. AR is a more solid receiver all around.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 02:36 PM
From our vantage point on draft picks, we have no idea who is lazy, dumb, clueless.. like hard hitting sylvester 55..
obviously colbert has a hard time with that too. but you know all right NPB?

we can only judge what we see and measure it against what is reported.

when someone i believe to be "into the process" in a similar manner (ktrain), has opinions that are so far outside the realm of what I see, I am going to make snide comments and laugh at him, and then if he's turns out to be correct he can serve me crow just the same.

there are tangible things we can evaluate (Moncrief has horrible catch technique... he allows the ball into his body all the time, he doesn't high point consistenty, he has tiny hands and a small catch radius... he's unproductive inside the red zone). On highlight tapes and combine measurables he looks great... but the entire body of his work is not.

Allen Robinson is better in pretty much every on field trait you look for in a WR. He'll have a chance to go in the late 1st (Carolina) depending on how the board shakes out for WRs.

Robinson is in that conversation of 2nd tier WRs (tier 1 = Watkins, Evans). He might be towards the back of that 2nd tier (Beckham, Lee, Benjamin, Cooks, Matthews, Adams).... but he's in that conversation.

Moncrief is not. He's a project WR like Martavis Bryant.

Moncrief is a great example of the overreaction to the combine.

Don't get me wrong... for a project WR, I LOVE Moncrief. If we go in different directions in the 1st AND 2nd... I'm hoping he falls in our lap with our comp 3rd... he'll probably go before that pick...

now... if ALL those guys above that i mentioned in the 2nd tier... if they were ALL gone by our 2nd pick... I'd consider Moncrief at 47... but that's only because I consider WR a critical need, and I prefer to draft for need (depending on who else is available at other needs)

Taking Moncrief over Robinson in the 2nd round would be criminally stupid... like the Patriots taking Aaron Dobson over Keenan Allen

K Train
04-09-2014, 02:47 PM
I highly doubt this. AR is a more solid receiver all around.

Why? He can run down the sideline, make contested catches, and hes good after the catch. Hes got great speed and had to deal with Bo Wallace constantly underthrowing him and showed the ability to adjust accordingly.

If anything they show similar ability, nothing to me suggests Robinson is "more solid all around"

Moncrief can body catch from time to time, and I know you think robinson is a 9/10 after the catch (which to me is insane lol) but what makes him so clearly better? To me he looks like Bryant Johnson...ironically the last penn state WR worth a damn, and he was barely an average NFL player

steelchamp204
04-09-2014, 02:48 PM
we can only judge what we see and measure it against what is reported.

when someone i believe to be "into the process" in a similar manner (ktrain), has opinions that are so far outside the realm of what I see, I am going to make snide comments and laugh at him, and then if he's turns out to be correct he can serve me crow just the same.

there are tangible things we can evaluate (Moncrief has horrible catch technique... he allows the ball into his body all the time, he doesn't high point consistenty, he has tiny hands and a small catch radius... he's unproductive inside the red zone). On highlight tapes and combine measurables he looks great... but the entire body of his work is not.

Allen Robinson is better in pretty much every on field trait you look for in a WR. He'll have a chance to go in the late 1st (Carolina) depending on how the board shakes out for WRs.

Robinson is in that conversation of 2nd tier WRs (tier 1 = Watkins, Evans). He might be towards the back of that 2nd tier (Beckham, Lee, Benjamin, Cooks, Matthews, Adams).... but he's in that conversation.

Moncrief is not. He's a project WR like Martavis Bryant.

Moncrief is a great example of the overreaction to the combine.

Don't get me wrong... for a project WR, I LOVE Moncrief. If we go in different directions in the 1st AND 2nd... I'm hoping he falls in our lap with our comp 3rd... he'll probably go before that pick...

now... if ALL those guys above that i mentioned in the 2nd tier... if they were ALL gone by our 2nd pick... I'd consider Moncrief at 47... but that's only because I consider WR a critical need, and I prefer to draft for need (depending on who else is available at other needs)

Taking Moncrief over Robinson in the 2nd round would be criminally stupid... like the Patriots taking Aaron Dobson over Keenan Allen


I would put Robinson right up there neck and neck with Lee. I just think AR is very underrated is all. Not saying he is a 315 pick, but anywhere from 22-32 isn't a reach for him I believe. He is 6'3 but plays like 6'6

K Train
04-09-2014, 02:57 PM
we can only judge what we see and measure it against what is reported.

when someone i believe to be "into the process" in a similar manner (ktrain), has opinions that are so far outside the realm of what I see, I am going to make snide comments and laugh at him, and then if he's turns out to be correct he can serve me crow just the same.

there are tangible things we can evaluate (Moncrief has horrible catch technique... he allows the ball into his body all the time, he doesn't high point consistenty, he has tiny hands and a small catch radius... he's unproductive inside the red zone). On highlight tapes and combine measurables he looks great... but the entire body of his work is not.

Allen Robinson is better in pretty much every on field trait you look for in a WR. He'll have a chance to go in the late 1st (Carolina) depending on how the board shakes out for WRs.

Robinson is in that conversation of 2nd tier WRs (tier 1 = Watkins, Evans). He might be towards the back of that 2nd tier (Beckham, Lee, Benjamin, Cooks, Matthews, Adams).... but he's in that conversation.

Moncrief is not. He's a project WR like Martavis Bryant.

Moncrief is a great example of the overreaction to the combine.

Don't get me wrong... for a project WR, I LOVE Moncrief. If we go in different directions in the 1st AND 2nd... I'm hoping he falls in our lap with our comp 3rd... he'll probably go before that pick...

now... if ALL those guys above that i mentioned in the 2nd tier... if they were ALL gone by our 2nd pick... I'd consider Moncrief at 47... but that's only because I consider WR a critical need, and I prefer to draft for need (depending on who else is available at other needs)

Taking Moncrief over Robinson in the 2nd round would be criminally stupid... like the Patriots taking Aaron Dobson over Keenan Allen

Ive been a big fan of Moncrief well before the combine, so i am not "overreacting"

You say taking Moncrief over Robinson is like taking Dobson over Allen...i disagree. Moncrief has been very productive for 2 years.

Taking Robinson over Moncrief is more like taking Brian Robiskie over Mike Wallace because hes "more complete" and "pro ready" and actually pretty similar physically

Real Deal Steel
04-09-2014, 03:58 PM
Here's my second round mock:

33. Houston Texans: Carlos Hyde, RB, Ohio State

34. Washington Redskins: David Yankey, G/OT, Stanford

35. Cleveland Browns: Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State

36. Oakland Raiders: Timmy Jernigan, DT, Florida State

37. St. Louis Rams: Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia

38. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Eastern Illinois

39. Jacksonville Jaguars: A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama

40. Minnesota Vikings: Demarcus Lawrence, DE/OLB, Boise State

41. Buffalo Bills: Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame

42. Tennessee Titans: Jeremy Hill, RB, LSU

43. New York Giants: Scott Crichton, DE, Oregon State

44. St. Louis Rams: Dion Bailey, S, USC

45. Detroit Lions: Kyle Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech

46. Pittsburgh Steelers: Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt

K Train
04-09-2014, 04:02 PM
Dont see how the rams dont take an OT in the first

Jernigan will go in round 1

Who I think a run on WRs happens at the end of round one....Carolina, New Orleans, Cleveland

Real Deal Steel
04-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Dont see how the rams dont take an OT in the first

Jernigan will go in round 1

Who I think a run on WRs happens at the end of round one....Carolina, New Orleans, Cleveland

I hear you. But here's the problem; your thinking too logically. And you and I both know that logic doesn't work for atleast a third of these teams. LOL

Your correct in what they SHOULD do. But you know the usual teams that don't do what their suppose to do..you know.

Plus...everybody can't go in the first round. There will be atleast 8 players that we thought were going in the first round but don't. I'm factoring all that into my mock.

K Train
04-09-2014, 04:08 PM
THe last one was my reasoning why Matthews probably wont be there in 2, although that is just an ideal scenario

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 05:03 PM
Ive been a big fan of Moncrief well before the combine, so i am not "overreacting"

You say taking Moncrief over Robinson is like taking Dobson over Allen...i disagree. Moncrief has been very productive for 2 years.

Taking Robinson over Moncrief is more like taking Brian Robiskie over Mike Wallace because hes "more complete" and "pro ready" and actually pretty similar physically

i know you've been a fan for awhile... i meant overreacting in general, as we've seen him fly up draft boards/mocks/etc since he impressed at the combine (the reason it was so impressive, is because he doesn't play that fast on the field.

you seem to pull out the Robiskie a lot... lol. You told the same story with regards to Matthews.

You want to do some game tape/snap analysis? Compare notes? we can each pick a game or 2?

K Train
04-09-2014, 05:11 PM
i know you've been a fan for awhile... i meant overreacting in general, as we've seen him fly up draft boards/mocks/etc since he impressed at the combine (the reason it was so impressive, is because he doesn't play that fast on the field.

you seem to pull out the Robiskie a lot... lol. You told the same story with regards to Matthews.

You want to do some game tape/snap analysis? Compare notes? we can each pick a game or 2?

Im a huge fan of matthews, the robiskie thing was in response to him being the most pro ready...which is meaningless to me. Robiskie was pro ready. Give me a raw Patterson (or Benjamin) over a "pro ready" guy all day. Sure you can end up with Greg Little, but its not on us to develop these guys lol

Id take Matthews in the first, just not over Evans/Watkins/Lee/Benjamin

Also, you used Keenan Allen....Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffrey are my guys to use on how i see Moncrief sliding a bit lol

K Train
04-09-2014, 05:20 PM
Also, I just see Robinson as a 2nd/3rd rounder. Just have Moncrief as a high second rounder. Dont know if i would HATE robinson in 2 but theres a bunch of WRs that would need to be gone for them to justify the pick to me

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 05:23 PM
Also, you used Keenan Allen....Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffrey are my guys to use on how i see Moncrief sliding a bit lol

that's silly

Allen fell because of a poor combine
Moncrief is rising because of a good combine

the movement on both is a mistake

Alshon (who I had as a 1st and someone I wanted us to draft)... fell because he was eating himself stupid. His talent was never in question (like Moncrief's clearly should be to anyone who has watched him closely).

Which games do you want to go snap by snap on?

K Train
04-09-2014, 05:29 PM
I wasnt really expecting moncrief to run in the 4.3s...like you said he doesnt play that fast. So i get how that killed my argument, but really i meant just an over analyzed WR.

Julio Jones didn play to his 4.3 speed at alabama, MANY people were expecting a 4.5 or 4.6 from him (i was infatuated with Julio since high school though).....point being I expect his speed to be maximized in the pros with better QB play than Bo ****ing Wallace (who is terrible)

Who are we going snap by snap on moncrief or robinson?

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 06:42 PM
Also, I just see Robinson as a 2nd/3rd rounder. Just have Moncrief as a high second rounder. Dont know if i would HATE robinson in 2 but theres a bunch of WRs that would need to be gone for them to justify the pick to me

a bunch?

I'll break it down like this

Tier 1a Elite Monster
Watkins

Tier 1b Dominator
Evans

Tier Wild Card
Benjamin

Tier 2a
Lee/Beckham

Tier 2b
Robinson/Cooks/Matthews/Adams

The tier 2s are more interchangeable based on team needs/systems/scheme... see breakdown below....

Tier 3
Richardson/Bryant/Monrief/Landry

or, if you want to see a sneak pick at my board (not finished... there's still a few weeks for tape)

3 Sammy Watkins
9 Mike Evans
16 Kelvin Benjamin
26 Marqise Lee
27 Odell Beckham Jr.
35 Allen Robinson
38 Brandin Cooks
40 Jordan Matthews
46 Davante Adams
61 Paul Richardson
68 Martavis Bryant
72 Donte Moncrief
73 Jarvis Landry
99 Bruce Ellington
107 Jared Abbrederis
115 Cody Latimer
121 Robert Herron
126 Brandon Coleman
134 Ryan Grant
136 Mike Davis
138 Devin Street
144 Shaq Evans
162 Cody Hoffman
177 Jalen Saunders
180 Jeff Janis

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 07:19 PM
Nice list of WR's more reason to draft ILB, CB, DE first three.

Big T
04-09-2014, 07:59 PM
Nice list of WR's more reason to draft ILB, CB, DE first three.

I hate when people try to script picks. So if Sammy Watkins is there in the second, you don't take him? The purpose of the hyperbole is just to point out that you don't know who is going to be there when you pick. It's foolish to go into a draft like that.

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 08:18 PM
I hate when people try to script picks. So if Sammy Watkins is there in the second, you don't take him? The purpose of the hyperbole is just to point out that you don't know who is going to be there when you pick. It's foolish to go into a draft like that.

I hate when people don't say who they like and only judge opinions.

Watkins & Evans really?? No chance. My script may not even have a worthy player at WR, ILB, TE or CB. at #15. then what... DE is all that would be left in a HIGH quality player if you see some of the mocks..

Kelvin, Roby, Fuller or do you go Hageman????

Big T
04-09-2014, 08:43 PM
I hate when people don't say who they like and only judge opinions.

Watkins & Evans really?? No chance. My script may not even have a worthy player at WR, ILB, TE or CB. at #15. then what... DE is all that would be left in a HIGH quality player if you see some of the mocks..

Kelvin, Roby, Fuller or do you go Hageman????

Lol don't get butt hurt now. I mean in general. It's just not smart to go in with a scripted mindset. I'd go Benjamin there

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 08:47 PM
Nice list of WR's more reason to draft ILB, CB, DE first three.

I don't understand the logic

LevonKirkland99
04-09-2014, 09:31 PM
Bradley Roby..CB , OSU?

LevonKirkland99
04-09-2014, 09:37 PM
NFL mock draft has Darwueze Dennard @ 30th pick for SF!! These mocks are pathetic...

K Train
04-09-2014, 09:52 PM
a bunch?

I'll break it down like this

Tier 1a Elite Monster
Watkins

Tier 1b Dominator
Evans

Tier Wild Card
Benjamin

Tier 2a
Lee/Beckham

Tier 2b
Robinson/Cooks/Matthews/Adams

The tier 2s are more interchangeable based on team needs/systems/scheme... see breakdown below....

Tier 3
Richardson/Bryant/Monrief/Landry

or, if you want to see a sneak pick at my board (not finished... there's still a few weeks for tape)

3 Sammy Watkins
9 Mike Evans
16 Kelvin Benjamin
26 Marqise Lee
27 Odell Beckham Jr.
35 Allen Robinson
38 Brandin Cooks
40 Jordan Matthews
46 Davante Adams
61 Paul Richardson
68 Martavis Bryant
72 Donte Moncrief
73 Jarvis Landry
99 Bruce Ellington
107 Jared Abbrederis
115 Cody Latimer
121 Robert Herron
126 Brandon Coleman
134 Ryan Grant
136 Mike Davis
138 Devin Street
144 Shaq Evans
162 Cody Hoffman
177 Jalen Saunders
180 Jeff Janis
I agree with your tiers for the most part I'd just have Moncrief in tier 2b and Robinson would be 4/5 in 2b

I find it really interesting you have Matthews ranked below Robinson. It's not by much but I'm curious as to why

NeilPatrickBanana
04-09-2014, 10:01 PM
I find it really interesting you have Matthews ranked below Robinson. It's not by much but I'm curious as to why

very comparable players. Robinson makes more plays in the open field. He's quicker/shiftier. He seperates a bit better.

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 11:38 PM
I don't understand the logic

Easy, if there are plenty of receivers available wait, there is only one ILB worth a early pick, maybe 2 CB's in the second .. If gilbert is gone.

coldrolled
04-09-2014, 11:41 PM
Bradley Roby..CB , OSU?

4.3 speed same size as dennard and shifty.

steelchamp204
04-10-2014, 12:54 AM
I agree with your tiers for the most part I'd just have Moncrief in tier 2b and Robinson would be 4/5 in 2b

I find it really interesting you have Matthews ranked below Robinson. It's not by much but I'm curious as to why

What is there not to love about Robinson? He find the holes in zones, he is a solid route runner. Yes, he might not be the fastest out of the bunch but the guy came up huge in games. He can run the WR screens just as good as anyone, he highpoints the ball very well and is a threat in the endzone. His hands are some of the best in this draft class, minus the combine. He comes out of PSU when he was the number #1 target for opposing defenses. He had Matt McGloin and a true freshman throwing him the ball.

Played in a pro style offense the past 2 season under BoB

He might not blow the top off of coverages, but he can stretch the field and contend with any CB.

I watched this kid EVERY Saturday besides some games due to work and he is LEGIT.

Moncrief from what I see lets the ball come into his body to often. There is going to be tighter coverage in the NFL and he is going to have to pluck balls out of the air or when defenders are draping all over him, he would be the perfect Mike Wallace fit into this offense though to take the coverage off the top and open things up underneath. But, when it comes to the redzone, will he be a threat like Evans/Watkins/Mathews/Lee/Robinson/Benajmin or even Beckham? I doubt it. I think most of his tds will come outside of the redzone.

So would Moncrief really be that physical threat that Ben needs in the redzone? I highly doubt it. To whereas the other Wideouts in the draft could be a threat in the redzone.

Moncrief being in the 3rd tier of receivers is about right to be fair.

I think Moncrief will be a solid deep threat in the NFL though.

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 07:51 AM
Keeping the Steelers way...

Even with the loss of Alterraun Verner, Whisenhunt warned Moss not to expect a first-round cornerback, either. The Titans think highly of young corners Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Coty Sensabaugh, Tommie Campbell and Khalid Wooten.

After picking up linebackers Shaun Phillips and Wesley Woodyard, right tackle Michael Oher, nose tackle Al Woods and McCluster in free agency, the Titans feel comfortable with a "best player available" approach to the draft's first round.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-10-2014, 08:53 AM
Easy, if there are plenty of receivers available wait, there is only one ILB worth a early pick, maybe 2 CB's in the second .. If gilbert is gone.

That is a terrible approach to the draft

K Train
04-10-2014, 08:58 AM
"plenty of receivers" with a massive drop off after theres a run on them in the second round

MLB would be nice but we have bodies right now with Moats/Spence/Williams. Id love to team someone up with Timmons to Rival Willis/Bowman, but MLBs drop in the draft for a reason...its pretty far down the totem pole of positions addressed early in the draft (unless its shazier 1 one or borland in 2)

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 10:59 AM
"plenty of receivers" with a massive drop off after theres a run on them in the second round

MLB would be nice but we have bodies right now with Moats/Spence/Williams. Id love to team someone up with Timmons to Rival Willis/Bowman, but MLBs drop in the draft for a reason...its pretty far down the totem pole of positions addressed early in the draft (unless its shazier 1 one or borland in 2)

I know but another year watching a "Pryor" QB run through farriors old spot and go 98 yards and kill our playoffs is hard to watch again.. So i see an ILB as a good pick... Spence is a cane, i like him, but he hasn't played a lick.

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 11:01 AM
That is a terrible approach to the draft

Its hard to approach a draft when you have 14 players getting taken in front of you. If the top 8 teams take 4 qb's the board will change a lot. if they all decide to not draft qb's early, we will be left with little.

K Train
04-10-2014, 11:23 AM
I know but another year watching a "Pryor" QB run through farriors old spot and go 98 yards and kill our playoffs is hard to watch again.. So i see an ILB as a good pick... Spence is a cane, i like him, but he hasn't played a lick.

That is such poor justification. A guy with legit 4.3 speed had a hole and took off, that happens. He didnt do **** for the rest of the game, but damn if he can do anything its run and he got lucky there

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 11:24 AM
Its hard to approach a draft when you have 14 players getting taken in front of you. If the top 8 teams take 4 qb's the board will change a lot. if they all decide to not draft qb's early, we will be left with little.

I agree. The key at looking at this draft for the last few months is that 3-4 QB's need to be taken ahead of us. Now, It sounds like only two QB's may be taken. But there's so much smokescreening going on, who knows? I definitely think Bortles is going just because he has all the classic measurables that the needed QB teams are looking for. But Bridgewater, Manziel and company, I don't know. But I'm hoping like hell 3 go ahead of us.

And, with rumblings that the Lions are going to trade up to get Watkins, that gives me some hope that Gilbert could fall right into our laps.

We won't be able to address all needs but we could address 75 percent of them if we draft well.

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 11:27 AM
That is such poor justification. A guy with legit 4.3 speed had a hole and took off, that happens. He didnt do **** for the rest of the game, but damn if he can do anything its run and he got lucky there

K, he ran right thru Troy, and then Troy was taken to school by that TE on the Dolphins (Clay). I don't care what numbers say, Troy was awful last year in key games. We got 8 losses last year for a reason. And in large part (80 percent) it was because of the defense.

K Train
04-10-2014, 11:29 AM
K, he ran right thru Troy, and then Troy was taken to school by that TE on the Dolphins (Clay). I don't care what numbers say, Troy was awful last year in key games. We got 8 losses last year for a reason. And in large part (80 percent) it was because of the defense.
I dont get what that has to do with locking in on a MLB as the pick...pass rush was the problem last year on defense, mosely doesnt really help the pass rush, significantly at least

NeilPatrickBanana
04-10-2014, 11:33 AM
Its hard to approach a draft when you have 14 players getting taken in front of you. If the top 8 teams take 4 qb's the board will change a lot. if they all decide to not draft qb's early, we will be left with little.

That has nothing to do with your original statement which was "wow WR is deep in this draft, so we should go in a different direction in the frat 3 rounds"

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 11:34 AM
I don't agree with locking in on a MLB as our first pick. I think the need at CB and another receiver supercede the need to add a MLB. And the need to put someone next to Heyward supercedes MLB too.

But if they can't trade down, and all the guys we prefer are gone, Moseley may get picked.

K Train
04-10-2014, 11:51 AM
Which has absolutely nothing to do with troy on that play

CB is a need, I just hope they dont use a first on Dennard. Corners will be fine once the pass rush gets fixed, I dont get how people dont realize that. If theres no pass rush the current scheme is exhausting for DBs, when there is good pass rush they are relaxed, comfortable, and look dominant.

34 sacks is directly related to the DBs looking like **** last season

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 12:23 PM
My point in bringing Troy into that conversation is that between that there not being anybody in the middle, and with the way Troy was just STANDING THERE and then displaying a shocking slow lack of speed (yeah I know Pryor runs a 4.3) we do have to address at least one of those two areas this off-season. May not get to both, but at least one of them.

Troy was shockingly slow on that play. Waaaaaay slower then what he used to be in my opinion. Something's got to change.

steelchamp204
04-10-2014, 12:29 PM
Ebron in the first, no way.

If you want a receiver as it seems that all of you want out of Ebron, go with a WR in the first. Get a ASJ or Amaro in the 2nd if you want a TE with receiving abilities.

You can say Amaro played in a pass happy offense, but the guy had over 100 receptions for over 1300 yards. The guy can catch the ball and is 6'5.

If I had it my way. I would trade up in the 2nd for ASJ

1. Benjamin
2. Austin Sefari Jenkins


Bam, offense is instantly impacted with height/speed/elusivness.

Redzone would be Benjamin/Miller/ASJ/Brown/Bell or Blount

4 wr set

1. Brown
2. Benjamin
3. ASJ
4. Moore

5 WR set

1. Brown
2. Heyward Bey
3. Benjamin
4. Heath/ASJ
5. Moore

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 12:57 PM
Ebron in the first, no way.

If you want a receiver as it seems that all of you want out of Ebron, go with a WR in the first. Get a ASJ or Amaro in the 2nd if you want a TE with receiving abilities.

You can say Amaro played in a pass happy offense, but the guy had over 100 receptions for over 1300 yards. The guy can catch the ball and is 6'5.

If I had it my way. I would trade up in the 2nd for ASJ

1. Benjamin
2. Austin Sefari Jenkins


Bam, offense is instantly impacted with height/speed/elusivness.

Redzone would be Benjamin/Miller/ASJ/Brown/Bell or Blount

4 wr set

1. Brown
2. Benjamin
3. ASJ
4. Moore

5 WR set

1. Brown
2. Heyward Bey
3. Benjamin
4. Heath/ASJ
5. Moore

Would we lose every game 40-38

K Train
04-10-2014, 01:07 PM
Its just not that black and white. You can address needs in the next few rounds too

Lets say they take Benjamin and ASJ (a combo that would make the offense devastating with brown, wheaton, DHB, moore, Bell, Heath, and Blount)

Now lets say they land Stanley Jean Baptiste in the 3rd...a CB, He really is an intimidating corner, and has a GREAT ability to win one on one matchups in both man and zone. Love how physical he is but how much more physical he can be, but its his recognition and reaction time that makes him special for being so big. Makes up for his stiffness (size related) with almost no wasted motion in his steps and pivots...making him a fluid stiff player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

Benjamin
ASJ
SJB

Then how bout Zack Kerr, NT or Shayne Skov, a box LB

Then How bout Brent Urban, DE...has the length for a DE that lebeau loves

Then you have guys like EJ Gaines, Pierre Desir, a guy I really like in Vinnie Sunseri

Just because theyve struggled lately with late round picks doesnt mean they are useless, especially with 90+ juniors in the draft

They are using an official visit on Sentreal Henderson too, wonder what really went down at his pro day. Henderson and Adams, although inconsistent would really show us what munchak has in player development skills

Big T
04-10-2014, 01:07 PM
My point in bringing Troy into that conversation is that between that there not being anybody in the middle, and with the way Troy was just STANDING THERE and then displaying a shocking slow lack of speed (yeah I know Pryor runs a 4.3) we do have to address at least one of those two areas this off-season. May not get to both, but at least one of them.

Troy was shockingly slow on that play. Waaaaaay slower then what he used to be in my opinion. Something's got to change.

Just standing there? Lol come on now. The man was being blocked. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that a 32 year old Polamalu being blocked couldn't turn and chase down a 24 year old Pryor, with 4.3 speed, from behind. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to make that play from Troy's position.

steelchamp204
04-10-2014, 01:19 PM
Would we lose every game 40-38

How do you figure, you know there are guys who make impacts that are drafted after rounds 1 or 2. If you go in the later rounds for DL which I believe you are looking for.

You can get guys like Kerr/Mauro/Coleman/Urban/Lynch(given a few more pounds)

We might not even have to trade our 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd this season, could just be next years 2nd rounder.

You think our defense will regress this season compared to last? I highly doubt it.

steelchamp204
04-10-2014, 01:23 PM
Its just not that black and white. You can address needs in the next few rounds too

Lets say they take Benjamin and ASJ (a combo that would make the offense devastating with brown, wheaton, DHB, moore, Bell, Heath, and Blount)

Now lets say they land Stanley Jean Baptiste in the 3rd...a CB, He really is an intimidating corner, and has a GREAT ability to win one on one matchups in both man and zone. Love how physical he is but how much more physical he can be, but its his recognition and reaction time that makes him special for being so big. Makes up for his stiffness (size related) with almost no wasted motion in his steps and pivots...making him a fluid stiff player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

Benjamin
ASJ
SJB

Then how bout Zack Kerr, NT or Shayne Skov, a box LB

Then How bout Brent Urban, DE...has the length for a DE that lebeau loves

Then you have guys like EJ Gaines, Pierre Desir, a guy I really like in Vinnie Sunseri

Just because theyve struggled lately with late round picks doesnt mean they are useless, especially with 90+ juniors in the draft

They are using an official visit on Sentreal Henderson too, wonder what really went down at his pro day. Henderson and Adams, although inconsistent would really show us what munchak has in player development skills

EXACTLY. Not sure why trading up and getting ASJ in the second would be a bad thing. ASJ+BENJAMIN would be a solid draft, just from the first 2 rounds.

We would still probably keep our 3rd rounder this year but lose the 2nd rounder next season. Funny how some just look at the big names and never look and see what the 2nd/3rd/4th tier prospects are capable of.

K Train
04-10-2014, 01:25 PM
Cant trade the 3rd rounder this year, its a comp pick

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 01:27 PM
Just standing there? Lol come on now. The man was being blocked. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that a 32 year old Polamalu being blocked couldn't turn and chase down a 24 year old Pryor, with 4.3 speed, from behind. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to make that play from Troy's position.

Why is troy trying to play ILB so much?? or back up that side and let his position falter... we need the buck a big buck

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 01:36 PM
I dont get what that has to do with locking in on a MLB as the pick...pass rush was the problem last year on defense, mosely doesnt really help the pass rush, significantly at least

We had a variety of good blitz packages with farrior. Mitchell now with troy and timmons and mosley. would be solid. we then need a killer DE and we should survive. as long as the O score enough.

Big T
04-10-2014, 01:37 PM
Why is troy trying to play ILB so much?? or back up that side and let his position falter... we need the buck a big buck

He didn't play it in their base 3-4. He played it in sub packages. I really liked it. I hope they so it more to be honest. It keeps someone like Williams off the field where he's a liability in passing situations an you don't lose much in terms of the run game since Troy is a master around the LOS. I like it.

K Train
04-10-2014, 01:39 PM
Troy at the line was to force the QB to get rid of the ball faster because of the ineffective pass rush. Say what you want about him, but when he creeps up QBs get nervous hes going leap over the line

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 02:02 PM
Oh yeah, QB's do get nervous.

And Troy was being blocked on Pryors run???? Troy and the guy were holding hands basically. Troy wasn't really engaged per say. Troy watched Pryor from a distance, then watched him get even with him and then watched him go past him.

And Troy was smoked the same way by the tight end of the Dolphins (Clay) for two TD's.

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 02:08 PM
Troy at the line was to force the QB to get rid of the ball faster because of the ineffective pass rush. Say what you want about him, but when he creeps up QBs get nervous hes going leap over the line

Troy on the line is awesome... With timmons and mosley on the field even better.

K Train
04-10-2014, 02:10 PM
i give up

they'll take a middle of the pack MLB in the first round and you will be shocked how unimproved the defense is. Counting on a rookie MLB to come in and save the defense just sounds like a terrible idea

I guess it will be worth it if he comes out like willis or kuechly, but I dont see him as that caliber of player. Would prefer Shazier, hes not a day one starter most likely but hes an impact player

WindyCityShaker
04-10-2014, 03:48 PM
Now lets say they land Stanley Jean Baptiste in the 3rd...a CB, He really is an intimidating corner, and has a GREAT ability to win one on one matchups in both man and zone. Love how physical he is but how much more physical he can be, but its his recognition and reaction time that makes him special for being so big. Makes up for his stiffness (size related) with almost no wasted motion in his steps and pivots...making him a fluid stiff player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

Benjamin
ASJ
SJB

Then how bout Zack Kerr, NT or Shayne Skov, a box LB

Then How bout Brent Urban, DE...has the length for a DE that lebeau loves

Then you have guys like EJ Gaines, Pierre Desir, a guy I really like in Vinnie Sunseri

They are using an official visit on Sentreal Henderson too, wonder what really went down at his pro day. Henderson and Adams, although inconsistent would really show us what munchak has in player development skills

I don't think SJB makes it to the 3rd, let alone to pick 97 or whatever it is we have, but I'd have no problem if a scenario like that were to play out.

Rather than EJ, Desir, or anyone else I REALLY hope the Steelers pull one of those 5's on Colvin, and pray that someone who doesn't really need him this year takes him any earlier, it might seem like a wasted pick now, but that's close to 2nd round value . I really want Colvin. That combination that you have above, if SJB made the 3rd, then Urban in 4th, and Kerr + Colvin in the 5th, and I'd take that all day. Now I'd probably swap out ASJ (even though I like him) for Borland and you tell me how this gets any better.

Benjamin
Borland
SJB
Urban
Kerr
Colvin
Archer
Coin flip (Lyerla?)

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 04:51 PM
i give up

they'll take a middle of the pack MLB in the first round and you will be shocked how unimproved the defense is. Counting on a rookie MLB to come in and save the defense just sounds like a terrible idea

I guess it will be worth it if he comes out like willis or kuechly, but I dont see him as that caliber of player. Would prefer Shazier, hes not a day one starter most likely but hes an impact player

Give up lol

Shazier and Borland are nice in round 2.

Then Dennard or Kelvin in #1 Over Lewan or Mosley or Hageman or Ebron understanding that the others are gone.

coldrolled
04-10-2014, 04:54 PM
Ohio State’s Ryan Shazier and UCLA’s Jordan Zumwalt are meeting with the Steelers at their practice facility as well Washington State safety Deone Bucannon.


2 ILB's and a Safety

K Train
04-10-2014, 04:54 PM
Shazier is a top 20 pick

Real Deal Steel
04-10-2014, 05:00 PM
Everybody can't be a top 20 or first round pick. According to the talking heads, we have 40 first round picks but only 32 spots in the first round. LOL

LevonKirkland99
04-10-2014, 05:35 PM
Most mocks are pointing to C.J. Mosley. My guess this could be the #15 pick. I just don't see them picking a WR in the first round.

LevonKirkland99
04-10-2014, 05:37 PM
Do we have a list of candidates for 15,46,97,118,157, and 173?

WindyCityShaker
04-10-2014, 06:15 PM
Everybody can't be a top 20 or first round pick. According to the talking heads, we have 40 first round picks but only 32 spots in the first round. LOL

That's absolutely right, there will be a noteworthy bleed of first round talent into the 2nd round this year. Players like Shazier or Nix could go 18, they could go 40, it's all about how the draft shakes out and how teams react. Just because they may go in the early 2nd doesn't mean they can't have a first round grade or aren't worth a first round pick under different circumstances.

steelstoned1972
04-21-2014, 05:14 PM
That's absolutely right, there will be a noteworthy bleed of first round talent into the 2nd round this year. Players like Shazier or Nix could go 18, they could go 40, it's all about how the draft shakes out and how teams react. Just because they may go in the early 2nd doesn't mean they can't have a first round grade or aren't worth a first round pick under different circumstances.

Hell yeah.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

steelspikes
04-25-2014, 01:09 PM
I don't see Nix being there at 46, I think a team will reach for him in the first.

Agree. He feels like a Belichick late 1rst round pick.

NeilPatrickBanana
04-25-2014, 01:24 PM
Do we have a list of candidates for 15,46,97,118,157, and 173?

my choices:
15
*CB Dennard
CB Fuller
OT Lewan
LB Mosley
LB Shazier
OLB Barr
WR Benjamin
WR Beckham Jr

46
*WR Robinson
WR Matthews
WR Adams
DE Tuitt
DE Hageman
DE Martin
NT Nix
CB McGill
TE Amaro

97
*WR Bryant
WR Moncrief
CB Mitchell
CB Watkins
OLB M.Smith
OLB D.Lawrence
OLB Gayle
DE Mauro

steelchamp204
04-25-2014, 02:17 PM
I believe it will be Tuiit/Nix in the 2nd, just a guess. Both would be a steal.

But, you could GO with Mauro/Kerr in the later roundsalong with Coleman, so is the 2nd really even a necessity to use on DL???

Obvious answer is No, but what are the chances Kerr/Mauro/Coleman/Urban are there when we draft later. It is a possibility.

steelchamp204
04-25-2014, 02:40 PM
Another kid I like in the 7th is this Zach Moore kid. 6'6 269 and has played Multiple front in college. Ranked #2 defensive lineman in Div 2 football going into 2013 season. Finished 5th in the country in sacks in 2012 and had 21 tackles for loss.

Jake Metz from Shippensburg could be a FA guy we can get from the draft. 6'6 but his ceiling could be a future starter, but mostly used as a backup, or brought in for specific pass rushing downs or to give some rest. But he could develope into something nice.

Shippensburg University DE Jake Metz
2013 PSAC East Defensive Player of the Year
2013 Daktronics Super Region Defensive Player of the Year
2013 Don Hansen's Football Gazette All-Super Region One Defensive Player of the Year
2012 AP All-America Second Team
2012 Daktronics All-America First Team
2012 D2Football.com Honorable Mention All-American
2012 Daktronics All-Super Region One First Team
2012 Don Hansen's Football Gazette All-Super Region One First Team
2012 All-PSAC Eastern Division First Team
2011 All-PSAC Eastern Division Second Team