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NeilPatrickBanana
03-14-2014, 10:18 AM
Would you give up our 2015 2nd round pick along with another late round pick this year (say 5th), to trade up to #9 Buffalo?

Let's say the following go in the first 8 picks
3 QBs
2 OTs
Clowney, Watkins, and Mack

That means that a few perfect fit players are available for us:
Mike Evans, Justin Gilbert, CJ Mosley, Anthony Barr, HaHa Clinton Dix, Taylor Lewan

Now, I'm not interested in debating which of those guys you prefer, or which position you value more... let's just agree that those players all fit our scheme, fit our needs in the present or long term.

With that said, it's very likely that all 5 could be taken in the next 6 picks. Or 4 of them are taken, and we are left with less of an ability to pick "our guy" and instead just get the one that falls to us (maybe you are ok with that... maybe I am too...)

If you WANTED to have more control, I think #9 Buffalo is a ripe spot to trade up. It's the cut off from the super elite of the draft, to the 2nd tier of very high end players.

We don't have a 3rd round pick this year. Well, we should get one as a Compensatory pick for Wallace, but you can't trade Compensatory picks.

The draft value trade chart:
9th = 1350
15th = 1050

So we need roughly 300 points to trade up.

Our 2nd this year is worth :
47th = 430

So it would be overpayment, and this is a really deep draft and I don't want to give up that pick.

So my question is,

Would you be willing to trade our 2015 2nd rounder next year along with our 5th rounder this year, to move up to #9 and get the guy you want?

The idea of going up and getting Mike Evans or Justin Gilbert intrigues me... sure, I'd love to cross my fingers and have one of them fall to 15.

I just can't get Timmons at 15 out of my head right now, instead of trying to go up and get the top LB Willis (11th) or top CB Revis (14th) out of my head... Sure, we came out with a very good player, but those 2 would've changed the franchise over the last 6 years.

sorry... that was just a really long brain dump.

K Train
03-14-2014, 10:23 AM
Would you give up our 2015 2nd round pick along with another late round pick this year (say 5th), to trade up to #9 Buffalo?

Let's say the following go in the first 8 picks
3 QBs
2 OTs
Clowney, Watkins, and Mack

That means that a few perfect fit players are available for us:
Mike Evans, Justin Gilbert, CJ Mosley, Anthony Barr, HaHa Clinton Dix, Taylor Lewan

Now, I'm not interested in debating which of those guys you prefer, or which position you value more... let's just agree that those players all fit our scheme, fit our needs in the present or long term.

With that said, it's very likely that all 5 could be taken in the next 6 picks. Or 4 of them are taken, and we are left with less of an ability to pick "our guy" and instead just get the one that falls to us (maybe you are ok with that... maybe I am too...)

If you WANTED to have more control, I think #9 Buffalo is a ripe spot to trade up. It's the cut off from the super elite of the draft, to the 2nd tier of very high end players.

We don't have a 3rd round pick this year. Well, we should get one as a Compensatory pick for Wallace, but you can't trade Compensatory picks.

The draft value trade chart:
9th = 1350
15th = 1050

So we need roughly 300 points to trade up.

Our 2nd this year is worth :
47th = 430

So it would be overpayment, and this is a really deep draft and I don't want to give up that pick.

So my question is,

Would you be willing to trade our 2015 2nd rounder next year along with our 5th rounder this year, to move up to #9 and get the guy you want?

The idea of going up and getting Mike Evans or Justin Gilbert intrigues me... sure, I'd love to cross my fingers and have one of them fall to 15.

I just can't get Timmons at 15 out of my head right now, instead of trying to go up and get the top LB Willis (11th) or top CB Revis (14th) out of my head... Sure, we came out with a very good player, but those 2 would've changed the franchise over the last 6 years.

sorry... that was just a really long brain dump.
Timmons has not been that far below willis since year 2 of their careers. Jets jumped us to get revis one pick, they were ready to take him.

I wouldnt want to give up the 2nd rounder....wouldnt mind giving up like a 4th and 6th though. Some teams will want to add a few mid round picks to move down a few spots

If we give up the 2nd, id at least want a 3rd back...which could be a pretty good deal for both side

NeilPatrickBanana
03-14-2014, 10:43 AM
Timmons has not been that far below willis since year 2 of their careers. Jets jumped us to get revis one pick, they were ready to take him.

I wouldnt want to give up the 2nd rounder....wouldnt mind giving up like a 4th and 6th though. Some teams will want to add a few mid round picks to move down a few spots

If we give up the 2nd, id at least want a 3rd back...which could be a pretty good deal for both side


Our 4th and 6th doesn't even equal 100 pts.

I wouldn't give up this years 2nd rounder... I think I would definitely give up the 2015 2nd rounder...

If Mike Evans becomes the dominant TD machine he looks like... or Gilbert becomes the next Patrick Peterson.... and instead of giving up a future 2nd rounder, we sat at 15 and took a good player instead of trading up for the super star... well, you better hope you hit a home run with that future 2nd rounder...

I just think this is the draft class, with the right talent, at the right area of need... to go big.

PSYCHO STEELER
03-15-2014, 12:14 AM
No, stay at 15 or move down if someone offers something ridiculous.

Big T
03-15-2014, 03:01 AM
I'd be cool with it if it meant we landed Gilbert or Evans.

Nolrog
03-15-2014, 09:40 AM
No, stay at 15 or move down if someone offers something ridiculous.

I would consider that. But my preference is to stay exactly where we are and find an impact player. Since the draft is deep though, I wouldn't mind trading a pick from next year for one this year (though, even round, not a stupid 3 for 4 pick move like they did last year.)

Real Deal Steel
03-15-2014, 10:33 AM
I'd be cool with it if it meant we landed Gilbert or Evans.

Let me go on record as saying I normally hate trading up. But for Evans or Gilbert, I'd do it. Losing the second round pick for 2015 draft will hurt but when Sanders signs with someone, we will get a pretty good comp pick back which will take the sting away. Not to mention we get a comp pick for Ziggy too.

Plus, I see this as a really big year for us to find 1 or 2 gems in the undrafted free agents we sign after the draft.

Real Deal Steel
03-15-2014, 11:03 AM
Also,

Looking at the landscape now based on free agency,

The Panthers, 49ers, Chargers,Redskins, Giants and the Rams (if they don't take Watkins with their first round pick) are all wide receiver starved teams. The only WR in the second round that I'm interested in is Jordan Matthews. And you can bet that Matthews isn't going to get past the teams I just mentioned. So if we are going to solve the "Big red zone" WR issue, we better solve it by using Neil's trade up scenario to get Evans.

Panthers, Chargers and 49ers could easily trade up ahead of us to get Matthews in the second round. And the redskins, Lions (never know what they'll do), Giants already are ahead of us.

Marcus Roberson (CB from Florida) will be on the board when we pick in the second round. He's six feet, 195 pounds and a good corner. We could still come out of this with the big WR and the cornerback areas properly addressed.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-15-2014, 12:52 PM
Let me go on record as saying I normally hate trading up. But for Evans or Gilbert, I'd do it. Losing the second round pick for 2015 draft will hurt but when Sanders signs with someone, we will get a pretty good comp pick back which will take the sting away. Not to mention we get a comp pick for Ziggy too.

Plus, I see this as a really big year for us to find 1 or 2 gems in the undrafted free agents we sign after the draft.

FYI Compensatory picks are the net total of losses and additions.

Losses:
Hood, Woods, Dwyer

Additions:
Mitchell, Thomas

It's hard to judge since both contract and playing time is part of the formula, but right now I'd bet we are pretty much at a wash.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-15-2014, 12:53 PM
Also,

Looking at the landscape now based on free agency,

The Panthers, 49ers, Chargers,Redskins, Giants and the Rams (if they don't take Watkins with their first round pick) are all wide receiver starved teams. The only WR in the second round that I'm interested in is Jordan Matthews. And you can bet that Matthews isn't going to get past the teams I just mentioned. So if we are going to solve the "Big red zone" WR issue, we better solve it by using Neil's trade up scenario to get Evans.

Panthers, Chargers and 49ers could easily trade up ahead of us to get Matthews in the second round. And the redskins, Lions (never know what they'll do), Giants already are ahead of us.

Marcus Roberson (CB from Florida) will be on the board when we pick in the second round. He's six feet, 195 pounds and a good corner. We could still come out of this with the big WR and the cornerback areas properly addressed.

I doubt Matthews makes it past Carolina's first rounder...

Mike Tomlin
03-15-2014, 04:25 PM
I think Evans ran his way out of our reach , but Benjamin ran to us lol. I say sit where we are in the first, take Benjamin and take our corner in the second. Even if we have to trade up to get who we want in the second(which I hope we don't) it wouldn't cost as much and we would still fill two big needs and get good players.

coldrolled
03-15-2014, 05:02 PM
I think Evans ran his way out of our reach , but Benjamin ran to us lol. I say sit where we are in the first, take Benjamin and take our corner in the second. Even if we have to trade up to get who we want in the second(which I hope we don't) it wouldn't cost as much and we would still fill two big needs and get good players.

Benjiman over Ebron... Nah.

Real Deal Steel
03-15-2014, 05:31 PM
There is no way we are taking a TE in the first round. Every year, we have guys who fall in love with the flavor of the draft TE. LOL.

Nolrog
03-15-2014, 06:15 PM
There is no way we are taking a TE in the first round. Every year, we have guys who fall in love with the flavor of the draft TE. LOL.

Taking a TE would be a very smart move. They could spot him in here and there as he learned and (hopefully) give them a really good 2 TE set (much like the Pats were), he could protect against an injury and he would be ready for full time action once Heath retires in a couple years.

I liked Eifert last year for the same reasons.

TarlsQtr
03-15-2014, 07:01 PM
There is no way we are taking a TE in the first round. Every year, we have guys who fall in love with the flavor of the draft TE. LOL.

Ebron is far different than Eifert or some of the others in the past. He would essentially equate to being the big red zone WR. You cannot just look at the position on a depth chart and need to look at a player's individual attributes.

Real Deal Steel
03-15-2014, 07:31 PM
Taking a TE would be a very smart move. They could spot him in here and there as he learned and (hopefully) give them a really good 2 TE set (much like the Pats were), he could protect against an injury and he would be ready for full time action once Heath retires in a couple years.

I liked Eifert last year for the same reasons.

And when has Haley ever done a two TE set? Hell, Haley has had a hard enough time incorporating ONE TE in the offense let alone two. The best thing I can say about Ebron is that he possibly would allow Ben to get the ball out of his hands faster. That part appeals to me a lot. I just don't think that's the pick plus the Giants (above us in the draft) have a waaaaaay more desperate need then we do and that's where I think he goes.

Big T
03-15-2014, 09:39 PM
And when has Haley ever done a two TE set? Hell, Haley has had a hard enough time incorporating ONE TE in the offense let alone two. The best thing I can say about Ebron is that he possibly would allow Ben to get the ball out of his hands faster. That part appeals to me a lot. I just don't think that's the pick plus the Giants (above us in the draft) have a waaaaaay more desperate need then we do and that's where I think he goes.

Heath Miller posted career numbers in his only healthy year with Haley AND he missed a game. Last year, at 31 coming after blowing out his knee in the second to last game of 2012, had more catches than he had in '05, '06, '07, '08, '10, and '11. And that was with missing the first two games and he clearly wasn't the same guy all last year. Haley has been known throughout his career to center around his offenses strengths (that passing attack in Arizona, the league leading rushing attack in KC). If Ebron was the pick, you can bet your *** Haley would find a way to use him.

TarlsQtr
03-15-2014, 09:57 PM
Heath Miller posted career numbers in his only healthy year with Haley AND he missed a game. Last year, at 31 coming after blowing out his knee in the second to last game of 2012, had more catches than he had in '05, '06, '07, '08, '10, and '11. And that was with missing the first two games and he clearly wasn't the same guy all last year. Haley has been known throughout his career to center around his offenses strengths (that passing attack in Arizona, the league leading rushing attack in KC). If Ebron was the pick, you can bet your *** Haley would find a way to use him.

Exactly. And Belichick never used two TEs the way he used Gronk and Hernandez until he had Gronk and Hernandez.

You would even see Ebron play a WR role in some packages.

Real Deal Steel
03-15-2014, 10:02 PM
Heath put up those numbers because he was the defacto # 2 receiver in the offense.

It's just ludicrous to think that considering ALL our other needs, that we would use the # 15 pick in the entire draft on a TE. Granted, a very talented TE at that. But a TE all the same. Once we settle the issue of who's on the other side of Brown, then we can worry about the Luxury of having a supersonic TE.

speaking of "the other side of Brown", has anybody heard anything about the development of Justin Brown?? Just wondering.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-15-2014, 10:40 PM
Heath put up those numbers because he was the defacto # 2 receiver in the offense.
.

Nice cop out

TarlsQtr
03-15-2014, 11:00 PM
Heath put up those numbers because he was the defacto # 2 receiver in the offense.

Uh, in 2012 they had Wallace, AB, and Sanders. Heath was not the "de facto #2 receiver."

Heath had a great season because he has talent and Haley used him, not because there was not enough WR talent.

coach
03-15-2014, 11:26 PM
I don't see the Steelers trading up. I also doubt they will take a TE in the first with all the other players that will be on the board.

Real Deal Steel
03-16-2014, 01:51 AM
I don't see the Steelers trading up. I also doubt they will take a TE in the first with all the other players that will be on the board.

Yeah, We want to run the ball in an effective manner and have balance on offense. Heath is sufficient enough for that type of offense, along with AB but I don't see Haley pushing to draft Ebron. Haley isn't that enamored with the TE position in his offenses. Never has so why should I expect it now?

NeilPatrickBanana
03-16-2014, 08:19 AM
Yeah, We want to run the ball in an effective manner and have balance on offense. Heath is sufficient enough for that type of offense, along with AB but I don't see Haley pushing to draft Ebron. Haley isn't that enamored with the TE position in his offenses. Never has so why should I expect it now?

You're not even the slightest bit embarrassed repeating falsehoods that others just finished proving false?

K Train
03-17-2014, 09:01 AM
Haley gushes over heath, that can throw the he doesnt like TEs argument out of the window.

Ebron would play a role that Boldin or TO played in his offense, the same kind of role he wanted Boldin into when he drafted baldwin.

People who think drafted ebron is drafting a #3 TE is hilarious

coldrolled
03-17-2014, 09:30 AM
Ebron will make a lot of people on offense better... hes a good pick. he will play a huge role.

This trade up senario is lame.. we need picks.... if anything we would trade ben and start re-building faster...

K Train
03-17-2014, 09:40 AM
We dont need a ton of picks, we need a few key cogs on the team, some true star power. A slew of mid rounders to add depth to already decent depth and role players is not what they need right now

steelchamp204
03-17-2014, 10:24 AM
Will Austin Sefari Jenkins be there when we pick at 44? Or whatever in the 2nd?? I think there is a very good chance he can be there.

coldrolled
03-17-2014, 10:35 AM
Ebron, Mosley, Evans would be star power.... for #15

NeilPatrickBanana
03-17-2014, 11:38 AM
New Scenario:
#15 + #45
1050 + 440 = 1490

#6 = 1600 (Atlanta)
#7 = 1500 (Tampa)
#8 = 1400 (Buffalo)

What if we could get Sammy Watkins?

Real Deal Steel
03-17-2014, 12:46 PM
Haley gushes over heath, that can throw the he doesnt like TEs argument out of the window.

Ebron would play a role that Boldin or TO played in his offense, the same kind of role he wanted Boldin into when he drafted baldwin.

People who think drafted ebron is drafting a #3 TE is hilarious

Okay..then I'm hilarious. I respect Ebron for the stud that he is. But I think that Evans or Gilbert or Mosley are more immediate impact players for us. I just don't see Haley doing something like what your describing with Ebron at a position that he's never really cared for in his history. We agree to disagree.

But if he were selected, I'd support Ebron 100 percent. But I'd be dissapointed considering what our other needs are.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-17-2014, 12:55 PM
Okay..then I'm hilarious. I respect Ebron for the stud that he is. But I think that Evans or Gilbert or Mosley are more immediate impact players for us. I just don't see Haley doing something like what your describing with Ebron at a position that he's never really cared for in his history. We agree to disagree.

But if he were selected, I'd support Ebron 100 percent. But I'd be dissapointed considering what our other needs are.

It's funny watching people try to claim the "agree to disagree" grounds, when they clearly are woefully ignorant of facts, and think they are simply "disagreeing".

Real Dumb Stupid made the claim that Haley doesn't use TEs...
It was then pointed out to him that Heath's 2012 season was the best of his career and an elite TE season.
Real Dumb Stupid then tried to claim that this was because Heath was the "de facto #2 WR"...
It was then pointed out to him that in 2012, we had Wallace, Brown, Sanders, and Cotchery

This is what having a stupid opinion looks like...

coldrolled
03-18-2014, 09:49 AM
Okay..then I'm hilarious. I respect Ebron for the stud that he is. But I think that Evans or Gilbert or Mosley are more immediate impact players for us. I just don't see Haley doing something like what your describing with Ebron at a position that he's never really cared for in his history. We agree to disagree.

But if he were selected, I'd support Ebron 100 percent. But I'd be dissapointed considering what our other needs are.

i have the feeling Mosley maybe the only one at #15

Real Deal Steel
03-18-2014, 10:07 AM
I"d be fine with Mosley. He and JJ would form a hell of a tandem. That is an area of concern.

K Train
03-18-2014, 10:14 AM
I just dont know about mosely. I liked Hightower better

Real Deal Steel
03-18-2014, 10:28 AM
I just dont know about mosely. I liked Hightower better

We all did! LOL

NeilPatrickBanana
03-18-2014, 12:19 PM
I just dont know about mosely. I liked Hightower better

That's freaking crazy, Mosley is a much better athlete and all around linebacker. Hightower doesn't move in space or cover ground at the same level as Mosley, not even close. Hightower is a high end version on Larry Foote, where as Mosley is Timmons... and that's his floor.

Hightower is a lumbering interior gap filler, he has enough athleticism to play in small zone spaces, but He cannot be left in man coverage, and he is not good in pursuit or change of direction scenarios. He was so bad in space, that Alabam would move him to DE and/or Standup OLB to rush the passer in their nickel packages.

Mosley, is the complete package. He can play in every scenario, role, need.

K Train
03-18-2014, 12:32 PM
That's freaking crazy, Mosley is a much better athlete and all around linebacker. Hightower doesn't move in space or cover ground at the same level as Mosley, not even close. Hightower is a high end version on Larry Foote, where as Mosley is Timmons... and that's his floor.

Hightower is a lumbering interior gap filler, he has enough athleticism to play in small zone spaces, but He cannot be left in man coverage, and he is not good in pursuit or change of direction scenarios. He was so bad in space, that Alabam would move him to DE and/or Standup OLB to rush the passer in their nickel packages.

Mosley, is the complete package. He can play in every scenario, role, need.
Well i liked him as a hammer in the middle, but versatility to play OLB or DE if needed.

My point wasnt comparing them as individuals, they are massively different. I liked hightower then more than i like mosely now. Because, like Mcclain...these bama defenders are a bitch to evaluate, especially once you get past the dline

NeilPatrickBanana
03-18-2014, 12:39 PM
Well i liked him as a hammer in the middle, but versatility to play OLB or DE if needed.

My point wasnt comparing them as individuals, they are massively different. I liked hightower then more than i like mosely now. Because, like Mcclain...these bama defenders are a bitch to evaluate, especially once you get past the dline

I liked Hightower for his fit next to Timmons as the hammer... we agree.

I like Mosley infinitely more because his fit next to Timmons molds us in the direction I'd like to see us go (versatitlity). Willis/Bowman is a perfect tandem, because both are elite, and both do everything at a high level. It allows you so much more scheme versatility, makes line calls for the opponent more difficult, makes the QBs reads more difficult.

Mosley is a significantly better football player than Hightower. He's a 3-4 franchise LBer... where as Hightower was a good, late 1st round, role specific, football player.

steelchamp204
03-18-2014, 12:48 PM
Last time we picked at 15. We picked Timmons. Thought that would be a fun fact.

Like I stated earlier in other threads, the draft comes down to these players now.

1. Evans
2. Ebron
3. Mosley
4. Gilbert
5. Dennard

No specific order.

Real Deal Steel
03-18-2014, 12:53 PM
Last time we picked at 15. We picked Timmons. Thought that would be a fun fact.

Like I stated earlier in other threads, the draft comes down to these players now.

1. Evans
2. Ebron
3. Mosley
4. Gilbert
5. Dennard

No specific order.

I totally agree with you. Dennard is on the radar. I can't see Evans falling pass the Bucs, Lions & Bills.

K Train
03-18-2014, 01:39 PM
That's freaking crazy, Mosley is a much better athlete and all around linebacker. Hightower doesn't move in space or cover ground at the same level as Mosley, not even close. Hightower is a high end version on Larry Foote, where as Mosley is Timmons... and that's his floor.

Timmons is Moselys floor? Thats freakin crazy. His floor is Aaron Curry or Rolando Mcclain and out of the league in 2 years lol

But I would agree he could reach something like Kuechly-high in his career (instinctive LBer, not the biggest, fastest, or strongest but has ESP in dissecting plays) Hes not the best at taking on blockers or runners. Overall good player, could really be great...im just hesitant with bama players right now

NeilPatrickBanana
03-18-2014, 02:33 PM
Timmons is Moselys floor? Thats freakin crazy. His floor is Aaron Curry or Rolando Mcclain and out of the league in 2 years lol


Curry was a massively overrated "combine" player. He put on a show in shorts, and made everyone forget about how incompatible he was with scheme. How at Wake he was allowed to run around and make plays outside of structure. He had a ****** attitude and work ethic, and that was exposed at the NFL level.

Curry was a fake.

McClain is a better comparison for Hightower. Same build, same run plugging game.

I'm very comfortable with projecting Mosley to Timmons as a floor (a very very good 34 ILB)... his ceiling is perennial pro bowler (patrick Willis)

Mosley would be a no brainer pick for us if we didn't have greater needs at WR/CB.

K Train
03-18-2014, 02:47 PM
Curry was a massively overrated "combine" player. He put on a show in shorts, and made everyone forget about how incompatible he was with scheme. How at Wake he was allowed to run around and make plays outside of structure. He had a ****** attitude and work ethic, and that was exposed at the NFL level.

Curry was a fake.

McClain is a better comparison for Hightower. Same build, same run plugging game.

I'm very comfortable with projecting Mosley to Timmons as a floor (a very very good 34 ILB)... his ceiling is perennial pro bowler (patrick Willis)

Mosley would be a no brainer pick for us if we didn't have greater needs at WR/CB.

Based on what I said his weaknesses are, especially in not being able to engage all that well Id say his floor is Keith Rivers more than Aaron Curry, i think thats a more accurate comparison on where his low is

Mike Tomlin
03-19-2014, 01:13 AM
(instinctive LBer, not the biggest, fastest, or strongest but has ESP in dissecting plays) Hes not the best at taking on blockers or runners. Overall good player..

Sounds like the same things that were said about Spence........that is ****ed up

Big T
03-19-2014, 02:10 PM
Last time we picked at 15. We picked Timmons. Thought that would be a fun fact.

Like I stated earlier in other threads, the draft comes down to these players now.

1. Evans
2. Ebron
3. Mosley
4. Gilbert
5. Dennard

No specific order.

Like NPB has said previously, add Benjamin to that list and I agree. I really do think they're gonna give Benjamin a lot of consideration at 15.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-19-2014, 02:19 PM
Like NPB has said previously, add Benjamin to that list and I agree. I really do think they're gonna give Benjamin a lot of consideration at 15.

agreed.

There's a good chance they could be choosing between the "reach/risk/reward" in Benjamin and the "value/safe/core" in Dennard. (because Evans and Gilbert are very likely to be gone).

Big T
03-19-2014, 10:26 PM
The general consensus is that Kelvin Benjamin was extremely impressive in his pro day work out.


Following a dominant pro-day performance in position drills, undoubtedly far more teams are willing to overlook his 4.61 time in Indianapolis.

FSU's Kelvin Benjamin might not be the fastest WR, but as Jimbo Fisher said, "You don't want to play against that guy."
“I really wish he ran, but he has such a unique skill set with his ball skills and catch radius,” one NFC scout said.

While running routes, Benjamin showcased his ability to catch the football at its highest point and make the types of catches most NFL receivers can't. On one throw toward the boundary, NFL coaches cleared as the ball’s flight plan descended toward a coaching cluster. Benjamin hauled in the pass -- easily -- and on the next throw he reached behind to catch an underthrown and off-target toss.

And for those who still question his speed?

“I can open up that stride and stride all day,” he said. “You got a guy who can run 4.3, he’s going to get tired and not keep up with the stride all day.”

Noles coach Jimbo Fisher will be terse with NFL coaches asking if Benjamin is worth a first-round payday.

"You don't want to play against him. That's the ultimate thing,” he said. “I'm telling you this: You don't want to play against that guy. He changes the game.”

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=acc&id=68415&src=desktop

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 08:31 AM
Would anybody be interested in trading out of the first round all together. San Fran has two 2s and two 3s they would also have to throw in 5 and a 6. That's a lot of picks in the meat of this draft. We would have picks 46,56,61,77,94,97(comp) 114,125,145,158,161(comp) 176, 207. That's a lot of picks

K Train
03-21-2014, 08:42 AM
There no way you trade ouf of the first to stockpile mid round picks on a roster that is nearly full as it is. Quality is better than quantity in the draft in pretty much all cases

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 08:49 AM
There no way you trade ouf of the first to stockpile mid round picks on a roster that is nearly full as it is. Quality is better than quantity in the draft in pretty much all cases

Normally I would agree but this is a very deep draft. Even if we didn't trade totally out maybe down to 30.. San Fran would give us a 2 and a 3. Giving us 30,46,61,94,97(comp)114,145,161(comp) 176,207. If don't sign anyone we need need young depth. This is the draft to get it.

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:02 AM
Normally I would agree but this is a very deep draft. Even if we didn't trade totally out maybe down to 30.. San Fran would give us a 2 and a 3. Giving us 30,46,61,94,97(comp)114,145,161(comp) 176,207. If don't sign anyone we need need young depth. This is the draft to get it.

Really? And you trust Colbert to find all these "mid round" gems??? Really? It's like K-Train said, we need quality, not quantity and you couple that with the fact that Colbert needs high picks to maximize his effectiveness in drafting too. No way do I want to trade down.

We will find additional players in the un-drafted guys. This year more then ever, there is going to be a ton of un-drafted guys who have talent and it's up to our coaching staff to reach out to those guys quickly and secure their rights. I am looking forward to seeing who we sign AFTER the draft is over. Because I expect us to find atleast two guys who will actually stick to our roster.

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 09:07 AM
Really? And you trust Colbert to find all these "mid round" gems??? Really? It's like K-Train said, we need quality, not quantity and you couple that with the fact that Colbert needs high picks to maximize his effectiveness in drafting too. No way do I want to trade down.

We will find additional players in the un-drafted guys. This year more then ever, there is going to be a ton of un-drafted guys who have talent and it's up to our coaching staff to reach out to those guys quickly and secure their rights. I am looking forward to seeing who we sign AFTER the draft is over. Because I expect us to find atleast two guys who will actually stick to our roster.

Mid-rounds??? These are picks in the second and third rounds.

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 09:09 AM
Besides this is just a thought for if the guys we all want aren't there at 15

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:12 AM
Mid-rounds??? These are picks in the second and third rounds.

And you trust Colbert to find those guys in the 2nd or 3rd rounds?

Nope. I want that stud player at # 15. And there will be a stud or two when we select there. Then Colbert can gather what limited mental capacity he has and hopefully hit on his second round pick. Giving Colbert multiple picks in the second and third round gives him multiple chances to fail.

As you can see, I have little faith in Colbert as of late.

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:14 AM
Besides this is just a thought for if the guys we all want aren't there at 15

Dennard, Gilbert, Evans, Mosley, One of these guys will be there at # 15. Not to worry.

K Train
03-21-2014, 09:14 AM
Normally I would agree but this is a very deep draft. Even if we didn't trade totally out maybe down to 30.. San Fran would give us a 2 and a 3. Giving us 30,46,61,94,97(comp)114,145,161(comp) 176,207. If don't sign anyone we need need young depth. This is the draft to get it.

What makes you say its a deep draft? I mean I have heard GMs say it, but what particularly stands out to you to make it so deep that a first rounder isnt needed?

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:25 AM
I tell you where I'd like to trade up..and that's in the second round. I'd love to trade up to # 34 with the Redskins. If we did that, it would give us way more flexability in who we take in the first round.

For example, if we trade with the redkskins and moved up to the 34th pick, we would be in prime position to take Jordan Matthews (WR from Vanderbilt) in the second round. So, that would allow us to freely take Mosely or even expand our options and posibly take a DE (Ealy) in the first round.

If the Giants pass on Ebron, I think he falls all the way down to the Packers. I'm hearing the Patriots are seriously considering trading up for Ebron to take Hernandez place in the offense.

Can you imagine if Brady had Gronk and Ebron????????????????????????????????????????? Gzzzzzzzzzzz

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 09:42 AM
This is a very deep draft at positions we need help WR and CBs. Just the record number of juniors who entered makes this draft deep.

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Yeah, so deep that there will be good players not drafted. Thus, undrafted free agents we can acquire.

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:56 AM
This is a very deep draft at positions we need help WR and CBs. Just the record number of juniors who entered makes this draft deep.
But remember, we need help in other areas too. DE for one. Another LB for two. RB for three.

coldrolled
03-21-2014, 09:56 AM
I tell you where I'd like to trade up..and that's in the second round. I'd love to trade up to # 34 with the Redskins. If we did that, it would give us way more flexability in who we take in the first round.

For example, if we trade with the redkskins and moved up to the 34th pick, we would be in prime position to take Jordan Matthews (WR from Vanderbilt) in the second round. So, that would allow us to freely take Mosely or even expand our options and posibly take a DE (Ealy) in the first round.

If the Giants pass on Ebron, I think he falls all the way down to the Packers. I'm hearing the Patriots are seriously considering trading up for Ebron to take Hernandez place in the offense.

Can you imagine if Brady had Gronk and Ebron????????????????????????????????????????? Gzzzzzzzzzzz

We just signed Palmer the TE to One Year. Were Gold Baby!

Real Deal Steel
03-21-2014, 09:57 AM
We just signed Palmer the TE to One Year. Were Gold Baby!

Hahahaha. Palmer is an in line blocking TE. LOL. But we needed the depth.

ANTDREWJOSH
03-21-2014, 10:01 AM
But remember, we need help in other areas too. DE for one. Another LB for two. RB for three.

Also 3-4 DE is pretty deep. Also since RB is so under valued now we should be able to get a quality back in this draft.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-21-2014, 10:09 AM
And you trust Colbert to find those guys in the 2nd or 3rd rounds?

Nope. I want that stud player at # 15. And there will be a stud or two when we select there. Then Colbert can gather what limited mental capacity he has and hopefully hit on his second round pick. Giving Colbert multiple picks in the second and third round gives him multiple chances to fail.

As you can see, I have little faith in Colbert as of late.

i dont think you really understand what a GMs job is (as it relates to the draft).

LevonKirkland99
03-22-2014, 11:24 AM
Never seen that Steelers trade up the last couple years in the draft. I am not confident in Colbert\Tomlin to come up with any miracles in this draft.

LevonKirkland99
03-22-2014, 11:30 AM
Real SD mentioned this...Colbert has been a failure the last couple years. Just my opinion!

TarlsQtr
03-22-2014, 12:49 PM
Real SD mentioned this...Colbert has been a failure the last couple years. Just my opinion!

Every GM in the position for any length of time goes through boom and bust periods. It is the nature of the job. Talent evaluation is not a science.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

ChucktownSteeler
03-22-2014, 12:53 PM
Never seen that Steelers trade up the last couple years in the draft. I am not confident in Colbert\Tomlin to come up with any miracles in this draft.

Not in round 1, but didn't we trade up round 2 for Bell? Also, a somewhat trade with the stains (up) for Thomas.

Real Deal Steel
03-22-2014, 09:44 PM
They did move up for Thomas. Have to give credit where credit is due.

NeilPatrickBanana
03-22-2014, 10:19 PM
Real SD mentioned this...Colbert has been a failure the last couple years. Just my opinion!

funny opinion... you must think we are going to be terrible next year.. since a lot of the team will built over the last 4 drafts

LT - Adams/Beachum - 2012
C - Pouncey - 2010
RG - Decastro - 2012
RT - Gilbert - 2011

WR1 - Brown - 2010
WR2 - Wheaton - 2013
RB - Bell - 2013

LE - Heyward - 2011
RE - Arnfelt/Williams - 2013

LOLB - Worrilds - 2010
ILB - Williams - 2013
ROLB - Jones - 2013

CB - Allen - 2011
DB - Shamarko - 2013

ANTDREWJOSH
03-23-2014, 04:53 PM
Colbert on trading back in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft: "It makes more sense in this draft than trading up. I'm sure everyone shares same thought."

Jitter77
03-23-2014, 07:07 PM
Colbert on trading back in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft: "It makes more sense in this draft than trading up. I'm sure everyone shares same thought."

So that means it should be easier to find a trade up partner. For the record I am not for trading up. Think we have too many holes to lose at least a 2nd round pick.

ANTDREWJOSH
03-23-2014, 07:31 PM
So that means it should be easier to find a trade up partner. For the record I am not for trading up. Think we have too many holes to lose at least a 2nd round pick.

Jitter77 are you from the other site?

Nolrog
03-23-2014, 09:39 PM
So that means it should be easier to find a trade up partner. For the record I am not for trading up. Think we have too many holes to lose at least a 2nd round pick.

He's saying that it will be hard to trade down, because everyone is going to want to trade down and pick up an extra pick or two in a deep draft. Agree with you about trading up. Too many holes to fill to give up picks, and we should get a really good player at 15.

steelchamp204
03-23-2014, 11:51 PM
Im trading back for certain in this draft, if Evans/Ebron are off the board. Get some more picks and get a guy like Kyle Fuller or Tuitt later in the first round.

I think Fuller can compete with Dennard/Gilbert for being one of the best CBs in the draft. He is a perfect fit for a zone scheme in DLs defense.

coldrolled
03-24-2014, 10:15 AM
Don’t expect the Steelers to trade up from the 15th overall pick in the NFL draft.

Steelers General Manager Kevin Colbert said today at the league meeting that with the available talent in this draft, trading down makes a lot more sense than trading up. Unfortunately for Colbert, he thinks the rest of the league feels the same way, which means that teams looking to pick up extra picks by trading down won’t find many takers.

“It makes more sense in this draft than trading up,” Colbert said of trading down, via Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I’m sure everyone shares the same thought.”

All it takes is one team to fall in love with a player, however, for the possibility of trading up to materialize. If some team that isn’t near the top of the draft decides that it has to have Teddy Bridgewater or Blake Bortles or Johnny Manziel or Jadeveon Clowney or Greg Robinson or Sammy Watkins or Khalil Mack, a team with a high pick will have the opportunity to trade down.

But Colbert seems to think the strength of this draft is in its depth, not in the elite players at the top. Which means accumulating more picks is the key to putting together a strong draft, and trading down is better than trading up.

Real Deal Steel
03-24-2014, 10:23 AM
But Colbert seems to think the strength of this draft is in its depth, not in the elite players at the top. Which means accumulating more picks is the key to putting together a strong draft, and trading down is better than trading up.

This is the part in Colbert's thinking where he could mess up. We need Elite talent. Talent that can be dominant. We don't need a bunch of supposed guys who may be good. Because Colbert's selection of those type of players hasn't panned out. If Colbert messes up by trading down with Ebron, Gilbert, Evans or Mosley is on the board, then that will confirm to me that he truly is living in a fantasy world. Because talent development is also not a strong suit of this latest Steelers management.

By the above statement, you can see that Colbert's thinking is somewhat flawed.

Big T
03-24-2014, 11:23 AM
It's March. I don't really take anything any team says about the draft that seriously. I'll tell you this, if someone like Mike Evans is available at 15, they're running to the podium.

Real Deal Steel
03-24-2014, 12:59 PM
It's March. I don't really take anything any team says about the draft that seriously. I'll tell you this, if someone like Mike Evans is available at 15, they're running to the podium.

They better be. There's a real chance Evans is there. If so, he needs to be a Steeler.

Jitter77
03-24-2014, 01:17 PM
Jitter77 are you from the other site?

Yes I am not sure what happened to it?