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PSYCHO STEELER
01-28-2014, 04:22 PM
I would be talking to Cleveland again about this trade

Real Deal Steel
01-28-2014, 04:36 PM
I voted no. It's not always about quantity....to me, it's about the quality. And we need a quality WR, NT ,DE or LB with that pick. We need to get dominant..especially on the lines.

But I definitely see where you are coming from but Colbert needs all the help he can get and the more no-brainer picks he has, the better chance he won't mess the pick up. Going down to 26 will cause Colbert to have to think longer then he should. LOL

NeilPatrickBanana
01-28-2014, 04:42 PM
No if Kelvin Benjamin is available
No if Mike Evans is available
No if Louis Nix is available
No if Darqueze Dennard is available
No if Ha'sean Clinton-Dix is available
No if CJ Mosley is available
No if Taylor Lewan is available

Big T
01-28-2014, 04:53 PM
No if Kelvin Benjamin is available
No if Mike James is available
No if Louis Nix is available
No if Darqueze Dennard is available
No if Ha'sean Clinton-Dix is available
No if CJ Mosley is available
No if Taylor Lewan is available

At this point I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose or you're just incapable of calling him Mike Evans lol.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-28-2014, 05:18 PM
At this point I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose or you're just incapable of calling him Mike Evans lol.

im laughing so hard... totally not on purpose...

coldrolled
01-28-2014, 06:28 PM
We need #15 to be an impact pick... Does a impact NT help the DL , LB's and CB's look better? Does an Evans/Lee make all our receivers and heath look better? Does a corner make the DL and Lb's look better??

I think a WR or NT will have the most impact on the whole team either offense or defense..

Who else?

TarlsQtr
01-28-2014, 09:08 PM
No if Kelvin Benjamin is available
No if Mike Evans is available
No if Louis Nix is available
No if Darqueze Dennard is available
No if Ha'sean Clinton-Dix is available
No if CJ Mosley is available
No if Taylor Lewan is available

But what if the board plays out in a manner where say 4-5 of those players are available and we could trade back a few spots and get one of them anyway.

Dennard at 22 with an extra pick is better than Dennard at 15.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-28-2014, 09:18 PM
But what if the board plays out in a manner where say 4-5 of those players are available and we could trade back a few spots and get one of them anyway.

Dennard at 22 with an extra pick is better than Dennard at 15.

and risk all of them being taken... hell no...

if 4 of them are available, then i'd move down 3 spots and no more... but in reality, that's not going to return much (maybe a 3rd at best), and in that regard, i'd just stay put and take the one I had rate highest/filling the most important need.

id hate to move down, and let Baltimore have the guy we could've taken...

stay put... draft the biggest impact/need/bpa player

Mike Tomlin
01-29-2014, 12:42 AM
At this point I just feel like we have to take a receiver with our first pick if nothing else to show Ben that we're still willing to give him the weapons he needs to get the job done. Plus we're rarely ever in a position to get the top guys at receiver. Nix is a good player and all but I don't see Casey Hampton in him like everyone else seems too. With that said I don't mind passing on him for either Evans or Benjamin, maybe even one of the corners but from what i've seen i'm not really sold on Gilbert or Dennard yet need to see a little more.

I think we should go receiver 1st round , 2nd & 3rd defense whether it's CB/S/DL/or LB , 4th or 5th round RB/TE unless a one of the better TE's falls to us earlier. If we still have either the 6th or 7th pick I say try to find another project like Beachum to mold for depth.

Nolrog
01-29-2014, 09:51 AM
I voted no. It's not always about quantity....to me, it's about the quality. And we need a quality WR, NT ,DE or LB with that pick. We need to get dominant..especially on the lines.

I agree. We need some impact players at this point, especailly on defense.

Real Deal Steel
01-29-2014, 10:52 AM
Impact player being the key phrase.

TarlsQtr
01-29-2014, 11:55 AM
and risk all of them being taken... hell no...

if 4 of them are available, then i'd move down 3 spots and no more... but in reality, that's not going to return much (maybe a 3rd at best), and in that regard, i'd just stay put and take the one I had rate highest/filling the most important need.

id hate to move down, and let Baltimore have the guy we could've taken...

stay put... draft the biggest impact/need/bpa player

Yeah, I get that and I usually look to stay put rather than get fancy and trade but I would withhold judgment. The draft is a poker game. On many occasions, you can trade back and still get the guy you want. For instance, would Nix be gone? I have seen mocks of him going to the Steelers in the second round. There is always risk involved but if the Steelers thought they could get Nix at 26, to use the original example, and get an additional pick a few spots later (in what is considered a very deep draft) to pick up another need, I fail to see why we would not do it. In the end it comes down to who we covet and what we expect the teams between 15 and 26 to do. I do not claim to be smart enough to figure that out but Colbert and Tomlin get paid to do exactly that.

Again, I am not pushing for a trade only keeping open the option for the right deal and if the board plays out in a certain fashion. If there was any year to trade back, this would be it. We have a lot of needs in a deep draft. I believe the drop off in talent from 15-26 is a lot smaller than in most seasons.

Edit: Just to add another comment. Here are two mocks (by CBS) that show who they think will be available late first round (I included 22-32 because the scenario has us picking 26 with trade-bolded is the 26th spot).

Mock 1: Calvin Pryor, Ha Ha, Ealy, Gilbert, Kouandjio, Dee Ford, Marcus Roberson, Tuitt, Verrett, Donald, Benjamin

Mock 2: Pryor, Beckham Jr., Gilbert, Zack Martin, Mosley, Benjamin, Robinson, Amaro, Roberson, Ford, Su'a-Filo

In both mocks, someone like Ha-Ha, Gilbert, Benjamin, Mosley, or Tuitt looks to be available.

WindyCityShaker
01-29-2014, 01:55 PM
Yeah, I get that and I usually look to stay put rather than get fancy and trade but I would withhold judgment. The draft is a poker game. On many occasions, you can trade back and still get the guy you want. For instance, would Nix be gone? I have seen mocks of him going to the Steelers in the second round. There is always risk involved but if the Steelers thought they could get Nix at 26, to use the original example, and get an additional pick a few spots later (in what is considered a very deep draft) to pick up another need, I fail to see why we would not do it. In the end it comes down to who we covet and what we expect the teams between 15 and 26 to do. I do not claim to be smart enough to figure that out but Colbert and Tomlin get paid to do exactly that.

Again, I am not pushing for a trade only keeping open the option for the right deal and if the board plays out in a certain fashion. If there was any year to trade back, this would be it. We have a lot of needs in a deep draft. I believe the drop off in talent from 15-26 is a lot smaller than in most seasons.

Edit: Just to add another comment. Here are two mocks (by CBS) that show who they think will be available late first round (I included 22-32 because the scenario has us picking 26 with trade-bolded is the 26th spot).

Mock 1: Calvin Pryor, Ha Ha, Ealy, Gilbert, Kouandjio, Dee Ford, Marcus Roberson, Tuitt, Verrett, Donald, Benjamin

Mock 2: Pryor, Beckham Jr., Gilbert, Zack Martin, Mosley, Benjamin, Robinson, Amaro, Roberson, Ford, Su'a-Filo

In both mocks, someone like Ha-Ha, Gilbert, Benjamin, Mosley, or Tuitt looks to be available.

In this instance, and by this instance I mean this year, this particular draft scenario as it is playing out, I see few reasons not to trade back. I know the legions of Benjamin/Mike James (I meant Evans....shout out to NPB) backers will say they don't want to back off of the ceiling that will be there at that pick, but with 15, I, me personally, don't want ceiling, I want a lower risk immediate contributor. I can get a "bigger" red zone threat later. I understand what the ceiling on a guy like Benjamin represents, I really do, this is overall just a pretty decent draft at positions we NEED, and there is depth there to boot.


No if Kelvin Benjamin is available
No if Mike Evans is available
No if Louis Nix is available
No if Darqueze Dennard is available
No if Ha'sean Clinton-Dix is available
No if CJ Mosley is available
No if Taylor Lewan is available

We already know where I stand on Benjamin/Evans

I, he who has been clamoring for Nix, would gamble on trading back, hoping he was there at 26, but if not I’d expect I can one of Tuitt, Hageman, or Donald with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47. If something better came along I’ll trust Neil’s insticts and say let’s grab Kerr or Coleman with that 3rd round comp pick.

Dennard would be difficult to pass on. Unless I see DLB sign something in blood saying he’ll either retire after this season and/or adjust to the possibilities a player like Dennard brings, I’ll trade back and get a Gilbert , Verrett, Roby, or Fuller with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47.
Really like HaHa too, REALLY like him. At 15 however, there’s no “sure thing” feeling I get from him(I know, there never is……but do we think he’s on level with say an Earl Thomas when he came out?). If he’s there later, great, but I would trade back and get Reynolds or Pryor with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47.

Interestingly enough of all the great impact players above, Mosely is one I’d really struggle to pass on, (assuming that Mack and Barr are long gone) because I know that means there isn’t much worth at any LB position until the late 4th and beyond.
Unless it’s Matthews or Robinson I’d trade out of the spot (including Lewan) and maybe look to scrape up Hurst in the 3rd but it’s not a must for me.

Bottom line is I’ll take the extra pick, (unless some crazy scenario plays out) and somewhat reasonably say we could go …
26. Gilbert 35. Pryor/Reynolds 47. Matthews/Adams/ASJ 3rd Comp pick Kerr or Coleman (assuming Donald is gone)
Or
26. Tuitt 35. Pryor/Reynolds 47. Verrett/Fuller/Roby 3rd Comp pick same as above, CJ Fiedorowicz or best WR available (Still should be some decent options).

There are just too many goodies to be had, and we have too many holes now, and coming in the future. Of course if we try and sign a Whitner or other FA free safety you can take a WR at 35. The possibilities are just endless. Hell Benjamin may still be there at 26, and I’d have a lot less of a problem taking him there or even Robinson.

TarlsQtr
01-29-2014, 02:46 PM
In this instance, and by this instance I mean this year, this particular draft scenario as it is playing out, I see few reasons not to trade back. I know the legions of Benjamin/Mike James (I meant Evans....shout out to NPB) backers will say they don't want to back off of the ceiling that will be there at that pick, but with 15, I, me personally, don't want ceiling, I want a lower risk immediate contributor. I can get a "bigger" red zone threat later. I understand what the ceiling on a guy like Benjamin represents, I really do, this is overall just a pretty decent draft at positions we NEED, and there is depth there to boot.



We already know where I stand on Benjamin/Evans

I, he who has been clamoring for Nix, would gamble on trading back, hoping he was there at 26, but if not I’d expect I can one of Tuitt, Hageman, or Donald with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47. If something better came along I’ll trust Neil’s insticts and say let’s grab Kerr or Coleman with that 3rd round comp pick.

Dennard would be difficult to pass on. Unless I see DLB sign something in blood saying he’ll either retire after this season and/or adjust to the possibilities a player like Dennard brings, I’ll trade back and get a Gilbert , Verrett, Roby, or Fuller with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47.
Really like HaHa too, REALLY like him. At 15 however, there’s no “sure thing” feeling I get from him(I know, there never is……but do we think he’s on level with say an Earl Thomas when he came out?). If he’s there later, great, but I would trade back and get Reynolds or Pryor with one of my 3 picks between 26 and 47.

Interestingly enough of all the great impact players above, Mosely is one I’d really struggle to pass on, (assuming that Mack and Barr are long gone) because I know that means there isn’t much worth at any LB position until the late 4th and beyond.
Unless it’s Matthews or Robinson I’d trade out of the spot (including Lewan) and maybe look to scrape up Hurst in the 3rd but it’s not a must for me.

Bottom line is I’ll take the extra pick, (unless some crazy scenario plays out) and somewhat reasonably say we could go …
26. Gilbert 35. Pryor/Reynolds 47. Matthews/Adams/ASJ 3rd Comp pick Kerr or Coleman (assuming Donald is gone)
Or
26. Tuitt 35. Pryor/Reynolds 47. Verrett/Fuller/Roby 3rd Comp pick same as above, CJ Fiedorowicz or best WR available (Still should be some decent options).

There are just too many goodies to be had, and we have too many holes now, and coming in the future. Of course if we try and sign a Whitner or other FA free safety you can take a WR at 35. The possibilities are just endless. Hell Benjamin may still be there at 26, and I’d have a lot less of a problem taking him there or even Robinson.

Exactly. Both of those mocks had Benjamin available at 26. Of course there are no guarantees but the thought of getting Benjamin at 26 and then an extra pick 9 spots later would be very exciting. My heavens, it would actually be within the realm of possibility to do something like Benjamin (26), Nix (35), and Reynolds (46). That would completely change the arc of the franchise.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-29-2014, 03:01 PM
Yeah, I get that and I usually look to stay put rather than get fancy and trade but I would withhold judgment. The draft is a poker game. On many occasions, you can trade back and still get the guy you want. For instance, would Nix be gone? I have seen mocks of him going to the Steelers in the second round. There is always risk involved but if the Steelers thought they could get Nix at 26, to use the original example, and get an additional pick a few spots later (in what is considered a very deep draft) to pick up another need, I fail to see why we would not do it. In the end it comes down to who we covet and what we expect the teams between 15 and 26 to do. I do not claim to be smart enough to figure that out but Colbert and Tomlin get paid to do exactly that.

Trading down to get a player you expect to fall? no thanks... maybe take the guy who isn't going to fall (he's probably better?)


Again, I am not pushing for a trade only keeping open the option for the right deal and if the board plays out in a certain fashion. If there was any year to trade back, this would be it. We have a lot of needs in a deep draft. I believe the drop off in talent from 15-26 is a lot smaller than in most seasons.

I think this draft has depth... but it's not deep in talent (if that makes sense). I think there is depth in players that will carve out NFL careers... but there is a lack of impact talent.

To me a trade down has the feel of trading an impact player for 2 starters. And while you can put enticing scenarios on paper, once you trade down you cannot predict who will go.


Edit: Just to add another comment. Here are two mocks (by CBS) that show who they think will be available late first round (I included 22-32 because the scenario has us picking 26 with trade-bolded is the 26th spot).
Mock 1: Calvin Pryor, Ha Ha, Ealy, Gilbert, Kouandjio, Dee Ford, Marcus Roberson, Tuitt, Verrett, Donald, Benjamin

Mock 2: Pryor, Beckham Jr., Gilbert, Zack Martin, Mosley, Benjamin, Robinson, Amaro, Roberson, Ford, Su'a-Filo

In both mocks, someone like Ha-Ha, Gilbert, Benjamin, Mosley, or Tuitt looks to be available

Now, if you guaranteed me that we could trade down and draft Nix AND Benjamin, OF COURSE I'd do it, But by trading down 10 spots with both of them on the board, there is a good chance they BOTH get drafted, and then I get something like Kouandjio and Verret.... I'd take one of the previous over both of the later.

WindyCityShaker
01-29-2014, 03:12 PM
Exactly. Both of those mocks had Benjamin available at 26. Of course there are no guarantees but the thought of getting Benjamin at 26 and then an extra pick 9 spots later would be very exciting. My heavens, it would actually be within the realm of possibility to do something like Benjamin (26), Nix (35), and Reynolds (46). That would completely change the arc of the franchise.

To me the risk of him not being there is no greater than the risk you take by actually taking him with the 15th.

The biggest problem I have with this scenario is the fact you are giving the Browns 2 in the top 15; they're already not the worst team in the league, despite traditionally having the worst front office. Anyone have any ideas at what they'd be looking at moving up for? I suppose there's the likelihood that they are targeting Benjamin there......could you imagine him on the other side of Gordon with Manziel extending plays for eternity?

I know Neil, I know......imagine Benjamin on the other side of Brown, I get it. But really any idea on what they'd be considering there?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-29-2014, 03:19 PM
To me the risk of him not being there is no greater than the risk you take by actually taking him with the 15th.

The biggest problem I have with this scenario is the fact you are giving the Browns 2 in the top 15; they're already not the worst team in the league, despite traditionally having the worst front office. Anyone have any ideas at what they'd be looking at moving up for? I suppose there's the likelihood that they are targeting Benjamin there......could you imagine him on the other side of Gordon with Manziel extending plays for eternity?

I know Neil, I know......imagine Benjamin on the other side of Brown, I get it. But really any idea on what they'd be considering there?

Right now, I believe the Browns will ship both their 1sts, and then some to Houston for #1 to draft Manziel. Houston will move down and get their QB at #4. The Browns seem absolutely intent on doing whatever is needed to get their QB. They aren't going to risk it. Everyone got fired for not going all in on RGIII in that draft.... the directive has come down from the top IMO

WindyCityShaker
01-29-2014, 03:35 PM
Right now, I believe the Browns will ship both their 1sts, and then some to Houston for #1 to draft Manziel. Houston will move down and get their QB at #4. The Browns seem absolutely intent on doing whatever is needed to get their QB. They aren't going to risk it. Everyone got fired for not going all in on RGIII in that draft.... the directive has come down from the top IMO

They've got to be joking right? I don't see Manziel being preferred over Bridgewater or Bortles in Houston, or in Jacksonville. St. Louis isn't taking him; I guess it's just the Browns eh? I suppose the combine and pro days may sway things possibly.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-29-2014, 03:38 PM
They've got to be joking right? I don't see Manziel being preferred over Bridgewater or Bortles in Houston, or in Jacksonville. St. Louis isn't taking him; I guess it's just the Browns eh? I suppose the combine and pro days may sway things possibly.

I think they acquired that extra 1st for exactly this reason. They want a specific QB, and they aren't willing to risk not getting their guy. I think it's a strong franchise building move to be committed to getting the player you believe will be the catalyst for turning the franchise around, as opposed to taking a calculated guess that the player will fall in your lap.

Real Deal Steel
01-29-2014, 05:21 PM
For some reason, I"m seeing mocks all over the place having Johnny Football as the # 1 pick. I could care less but I'm just not that sold on any of these QB's right now.

And these same mocks have Tahj Boyd in the second round? I feel better about Boyd then I do these other guys.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-29-2014, 05:26 PM
For some reason, I"m seeing mocks all over the place having Johnny Football as the # 1 pick. I could care less but I'm just not that sold on any of these QB's right now.

And these same mocks have Tahj Boyd in the second round? I feel better about Boyd then I do these other guys.

the reason : Manziel is insanely talented, even if in an uncoventional way, while Boyd does not have any particularly high end qualities...

I've had Manziel right at the top for quite some time... everyone else will catch up after the combine.

TarlsQtr
01-29-2014, 07:17 PM
I think they acquired that extra 1st for exactly this reason. They want a specific QB, and they aren't willing to risk not getting their guy. I think it's a strong franchise building move to be committed to getting the player you believe will be the catalyst for turning the franchise around, as opposed to taking a calculated guess that the player will fall in your lap.

There are so many franchise QBs in this draft, I cannot imagine them trading up. It is far from settled fact that Manziel will be better than Bridgewater, Bortles, etc.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-29-2014, 07:50 PM
There are so many franchise QBs in this draft, I cannot imagine them trading up. It is far from settled fact that Manziel will be better than Bridgewater, Bortles, etc.

It's far from settled, no doubt, I completely agree

BUT

There is a big difference between taking the guy who falls to you (allowing other teams to dictate your franchise QB)... And making aggressive moves to get your guy.

PSYCHO STEELER
01-29-2014, 09:18 PM
We'll put, you get it, some people just don't get why the question is what it says. Obviously we need a stud.