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Big T
01-22-2014, 08:39 PM
@AdamSchefter: Former Titans HC Mike Munchak has agreed to become Steelers O-line coach, as @McClain_on_NFL reported.

m.twitter.com/AdamSchefter

I like it.

Ibleedblk&gld
01-22-2014, 08:41 PM
dammit T, you always beat me to it, by seconds...lol

Big T
01-22-2014, 08:49 PM
dammit T, you always beat me to it, by seconds...lol

Lol sorry

TarlsQtr
01-22-2014, 08:49 PM
Good move.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-22-2014, 09:02 PM
very exciting

Munchak runs a complicated/intricate blocking scheme. It mixes zone and gap fundamentals into what I think is a very unique blocking scheme. It will be very interesting to see how quickly it can be put in place. With a 1 cut runner and athletic olinemen we could be very exciting in the running game next year.

Queue up some highlights of Tennessee running outside zone. They zone/stretch on the attack side, but gap the cut back side. I think they are the only team that runs it that way.

And they pull the guard as much as any team in football, even when they aren't trapping, they pull the guard, essentially making him the up back/fullback.

Look at what he did with Roos and Stewart... he molded pro bowl caliber tackles out of unpolished stones

Big T
01-23-2014, 12:33 AM
The Steelers are reportedly adding a former head coach, Hall of Fame offensive guard and Pennsylvania native to coach their offensive line.

According to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle, the Steelers are adding ex-Titans head coach Mike Munchak as offensive line coach.

Munchak, 53, led the Titans to a 22-26 record in three seasons as head coach before being let go in January. He interviewed with Pittsburgh last week.

A Scranton, Pennsylvania native, Munchak played collegiately at Penn State. He was a nine-time Pro Bowler with the Houston Oilers in 12 seasons (1982-1993) and was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001. He coached the Oilers/Titans offensive linemen for 14 seasons (1997-2010).

Munchak replaces Jack Bicknell Jr., with whom the Steelers parted ways after the 2013 season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/22/steelers-to-hire-mike-munchak-as-offensive-line-coach/

Nolrog
01-23-2014, 05:58 AM
I'm excited about this move. He should really help those kids a lot. Looking forward to next year already to see what he can do.

coldrolled
01-23-2014, 06:42 AM
Nice.... Maybe he can make Cody the Center and Pouncey the LG

muncher
01-23-2014, 09:26 AM
nice move

SteelCityKid5
01-23-2014, 10:12 AM
Has the o-line struggled in the past? Definitely. I believe our o-line play has been the result of rotating players because of injury and theyre so freakin young. With Munchak, and a healthy season, our offensive line could actually be a strong point next year. I love this hire.

LatrobePA
01-23-2014, 11:17 AM
This is a great move IMO. The line started to jell, I honestly think he could coach them to be a top line in the NFL.. Don't laugh, I'm surressss!

Real Deal Steel
01-23-2014, 12:35 PM
I love this hire too. Great move. Things are looking up.

SuperSteelers
01-23-2014, 12:52 PM
Outstanding hire! Well done Steelers. Well done.

JollyRob68
01-23-2014, 04:18 PM
Outstanding Hire

steelchamp204
01-23-2014, 04:33 PM
I bet he tries to push for Pouncey at LG. Wallace at C.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-23-2014, 05:42 PM
I'll be the first to mention that he cut Velasco in Tennessee... BUT... Velasco knows his system... Should be interesting to see how that plays out.

TarlsQtr
01-23-2014, 05:50 PM
I'll be the first to mention that he cut Velasco in Tennessee... BUT... Velasco knows his system... Should be interesting to see how that plays out.

Wasn't that more a case of having a younger, cheaper alternative than a lack if talent on his part?

JackLambert
01-23-2014, 06:16 PM
I'll be the first to mention that he cut Velasco in Tennessee... BUT... Velasco knows his system... Should be interesting to see how that plays out.

He's a FA and not expected ready until Nov, right? Much as I like Velasco, I think the org loves MP and would never even consider moving him. Right now, I think Foster-MP-DD is a lock inside. What I'm curious about is who ends up at the T spots. We have three in-house options plus whomever is added. I sure hope Wallace comes back as depth. That would make a nice 1-7 to start working with...

coldrolled
01-23-2014, 09:08 PM
He's a FA and not expected ready until Nov, right? Much as I like Velasco, I think the org loves MP and would never even consider moving him. Right now, I think Foster-MP-DD is a lock inside. What I'm curious about is who ends up at the T spots. We have three in-house options plus whomever is added. I sure hope Wallace comes back as depth. That would make a nice 1-7 to start working with...

What you say...

NeilPatrickBanana
01-23-2014, 10:23 PM
Wasn't that more a case of having a younger, cheaper alternative than a lack if talent on his part?

yes.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-23-2014, 10:36 PM
He's a FA and not expected ready until Nov, right? Much as I like Velasco, I think the org loves MP and would never even consider moving him. Right now, I think Foster-MP-DD is a lock inside. What I'm curious about is who ends up at the T spots. We have three in-house options plus whomever is added. I sure hope Wallace comes back as depth. That would make a nice 1-7 to start working with...

yes, so they can sign him dirt cheap, and have him start on PUP during camp. But he'd BE in camp, to work with the guys, and help implement a new system.

Then you have some depth at the position later in the year, when Pouncey inevitably suffers the dreaded high ankle sprain.

Also note that Pouncey is going into the last year of his deal. Are you ready to pay Pouncey the type of contract he will command?

here's 2 recent center contracts to bookend the ballpark for a potential Pouncey deal...
Unger 4 yrs / 26 mil / 6.5 per avg
Khalil 6 yrs / 49 mil / 8.1 per avg

I would guess we will need to commit something like 5 years / 35 mil / 7 per avg

I worry that a Pouncey extension will turn into the new Woodley contract...

Black@Gold Forever32
01-24-2014, 12:48 AM
Velasco won't be ready until November at the earliest.......

JackLambert
01-24-2014, 09:30 AM
yes, so they can sign him dirt cheap, and have him start on PUP during camp. But he'd BE in camp, to work with the guys, and help implement a new system.

Then you have some depth at the position later in the year, when Pouncey inevitably suffers the dreaded high ankle sprain.

Also note that Pouncey is going into the last year of his deal. Are you ready to pay Pouncey the type of contract he will command?

here's 2 recent center contracts to bookend the ballpark for a potential Pouncey deal...
Unger 4 yrs / 26 mil / 6.5 per avg
Khalil 6 yrs / 49 mil / 8.1 per avg

I would guess we will need to commit something like 5 years / 35 mil / 7 per avg

I worry that a Pouncey extension will turn into the new Woodley contract...

Hey, I'd trade MP for a 2nd and let Wallace start. I agree that MP will require big money, is a little overrated, and not the healthiest guy. I honestly don't think anyone will sign Velasco but if Munch wants him for cheap, late season depth that's fine with me. I just seriously doubt the FO will do anything that doesn't involve MP as the starting C in 2014.

TarlsQtr
01-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Hey, I'd trade MP for a 2nd and let Wallace start. I agree that MP will require big money, is a little overrated, and not the healthiest guy. I honestly don't think anyone will sign Velasco but if Munch wants him for cheap, late season depth that's fine with me. I just seriously doubt the FO will do anything that doesn't involve MP as the starting C in 2014.

I think we are expecting a lot from Wallace based on a couple of late season games. He reminds me of Legursky who did the same thing but became exposed once he played a lot. I see Wallace as no more than a nice depth piece.

LatrobePA
01-24-2014, 09:51 AM
Wallace reminds me of a hidden player that could be a starter. Legs was limited...

JackLambert
01-24-2014, 10:57 AM
I think we are expecting a lot from Wallace based on a couple of late season games. He reminds me of Legursky who did the same thing but became exposed once he played a lot. I see Wallace as no more than a nice depth piece.

Certainly possible. I think Wallace is far more physically capable than Legs was... and we need to save some $ somewhere.

TarlsQtr
01-24-2014, 11:02 AM
Certainly possible. I think Wallace is far more physically capable than Legs was... and we need to save some $ somewhere.

Well, he certainly has a mean streak that Legs did not have. Randy Starks found that out. lol

FlatsSteeler
01-24-2014, 01:28 PM
Between DeCastro and Wallace you have the meanest Center Guard combo in the NFL......Believe me that means(pun intended) something up to and including getting a few Defensive penalties from LB and Dlinemen retaliating.........I would like to see this combo and the $$$$ saved on Wallace would be a bonus.......Unfortunately as long as Tomlin is the HC the MUCH OVERRATED Pouncey will remain the Center until the annual injury happens.......

HumanPudding
01-24-2014, 02:29 PM
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is just really over pouncey. It was eye opening watching velasco come in and do the job this year.

Big T
01-24-2014, 02:52 PM
People are really overestimating how well Velasco played. I give him a ton of credit for coming in and playing "above the line" "so to speak" when being thrown into the lineup, but he was mediocre at best to be honest. According to PFF, he was the 25th ranked center in the league this season. His rank actually went UP since he got injured, he was ranked 28th. He graded out poorly against the run and pass (both negative) and only graded out positively on screen plays and penalties. Velasco's job was made a whole lot easier playing beside two top 15 guards. Outside of the GB guards, Foster and DeCastro made up the best guard duo in the league this year. Velasco played poorly, but it was masked by some outstanding guard play. Maurkice Pouncey had played well for us despite playing with scrub guard play. According to PFF He has improved every season (dispite the ever-so-popular stance that he has regressed since his rookie year) and he made huge strides last year when he improved from a -0.2 overall season in 2011 to a +9.5 overall season in 2012 (huge step up, and graded out positively in every category [pass blocking, run blocking, screen plays, as penalties]). Yes Pouncey is overrated. He's not a top 3 center in the league. But he's not the scrub a lot of people are trying to make him out to be.

And let's not forget that he's also going to be in a system now that is absolutely perfect for him.

2012: Pouncey ranked as the 12th best center in the league, playing beside the 34th ranked guard (Foster) and the 35th ranked guard (colon)

2013: Velasco ranked as the 25th best center in the league, playing beside the 12th ranked guard (Foster) and 14th ranked guard (DeCastro).

muncher
01-24-2014, 03:25 PM
People are really overestimating how well Velasco played. I give him a ton of credit for coming in and playing "above the line" "so to speak" when being thrown into the lineup, but he was mediocre at best to be honest. According to PFF, he was the 25th ranked center in the league this season. His rank actually went UP since he got injured, he was ranked 28th. He graded out poorly against the run and pass (both negative) and only graded out positively on screen plays and penalties. Velasco's job was made a whole lot easier playing beside two top 15 guards. Outside of the GB guards, Foster and DeCastro made up the best guard duo in the league this year. Velasco played poorly, but it was masked by some outstanding guard play. Maurkice Pouncey had played well for us despite playing with scrub guard play. According to PFF He has improved every season (dispite the ever-so-popular stance that he has regressed since his rookie year) and he made huge strides last year when he improved from a -0.9 overall season in 2011 to a +9.5 overall season in 2012 (huge step up, and graded out positively in every category [pass blocking, run blocking, screen plays, as penalties]). Yes Pouncey is overrated. He's not a top 3 center in the league. But he's not the scrub a lot of people are trying to make him out to be.

And let's not forget that he's also going to be in a system now that is absolutely perfect for him.

2012: Pouncey ranked as the 12th best center in the league, playing beside the 34th ranked guard (Foster) and the 35th ranked guard (colon)

2013: Velasco ranked as the 25th best center in the league, playing beside the 12th ranked guard (Foster) and 14th ranked guard (DeCastro).

i hope that he is offered a 10th rated center contract then.
if not, it will be another bad contract offered.

Big T
01-24-2014, 03:40 PM
i hope that he is offered a 10th rated center contract then.
if not, it will be another bad contract offered.

I agree in a sense. He's only 24 and has gotten better every year in a less than ideal system. Now he'll be playing in a perfect system for his skill set. If I had any say, I'd extend him this offseason to a deal. If he stays healthy, he'll be in line for a bigger contract after next season. Coming off an ACL, good time for a lesser deal.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-24-2014, 04:15 PM
People are really overestimating how well Velasco played. I give him a ton of credit for coming in and playing "above the line" "so to speak" when being thrown into the lineup, but he was mediocre at best to be honest. According to PFF, he was the 25th ranked center in the league this season. His rank actually went UP since he got injured, he was ranked 28th. He graded out poorly against the run and pass (both negative) and only graded out positively on screen plays and penalties. Velasco's job was made a whole lot easier playing beside two top 15 guards. Outside of the GB guards, Foster and DeCastro made up the best guard duo in the league this year. Velasco played poorly, but it was masked by some outstanding guard play. Maurkice Pouncey had played well for us despite playing with scrub guard play. According to PFF He has improved every season (dispite the ever-so-popular stance that he has regressed since his rookie year) and he made huge strides last year when he improved from a -0.9 overall season in 2011 to a +9.5 overall season in 2012 (huge step up, and graded out positively in every category [pass blocking, run blocking, screen plays, as penalties]). Yes Pouncey is overrated. He's not a top 3 center in the league. But he's not the scrub a lot of people are trying to make him out to be.

And let's not forget that he's also going to be in a system now that is absolutely perfect for him.

2012: Pouncey ranked as the 12th best center in the league, playing beside the 34th ranked guard (Foster) and the 35th ranked guard (colon)

2013: Velasco ranked as the 25th best center in the league, playing beside the 12th ranked guard (Foster) and 14th ranked guard (DeCastro).

it's pretty interesting how much Colon and Foster's guard play improved (PFF) the year after the horrid year they had playing with Pouncey. Analyzing interior oline play is difficult. sometimes the positives/negatives get assigned to the wrong party.

you dont need to keep going straw man with the "scrub" nonsense... your argument is backed up plenty without it. (no one says pouncey is a scrub.

Big T
01-24-2014, 05:00 PM
it's pretty interesting how much Colon and Foster's guard play improved (PFF) the year after the horrid year they had playing with Pouncey. Analyzing interior oline play is difficult. sometimes the positives/negatives get assigned to the wrong party.

you dont need to keep going straw man with the "scrub" nonsense... your argument is backed up plenty without it. (no one says pouncey is a scrub.

Conflicting arguements with myself. Sh*t's getting crazy.

Colon actually played worse this season compared to last according to PFF (2012: +1.3 overall grade {ranked 35th}/2013: -1.1 overall grade {ranked 36th})

And Foster's horrid year is certainly no outlier...

2010: 53rd ranked guard (-4.1 overall)
2011: 31st ranked guard (+4.0 overall) - nice improvement
2012: 34th ranked guard (+2.1 overall) - down from the previous year and in the same span Pouncey went from (-0.2 overall to +9.5)

Real Deal Steel
01-25-2014, 02:50 PM
Clear the slate gentlemen. Because with Munchak on board, we will finally see who's who and who ain't.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-25-2014, 04:56 PM
Who said Pouncey is a scrub?....Just seems the OL played really well without him this year (especially the interior of the OL......Yes I understand DD turning into the BEAST, we thought he would be when he was drafted helped greatly but just saying I didn't see the constant pressure up the middle in Ben's face this year and some of that was on Pouncey, the last year few years.......I don't care I just want the five best to play period if Pouncey, is one of them then great even if he ends up at OG.....Velasco won't be ready until November so really Wallace will be the only challenge for Pouncey unless a center is drafted (which I don't see)......

I said he declined since his rookie year since I thought he was a flatout BEAST his rookie year......

Big T
01-25-2014, 05:49 PM
Who said Pouncey is a scrub?....Just seems the OL played really well without him this year (especially the interior of the OL......Yes I understand DD turning into the BEAST, we thought he would be when he was drafted helped greatly but just saying I didn't see the constant pressure up the middle in Ben's face this year and some of that was on Pouncey, the last year few years.......I don't care I just want the five best to play period if Pouncey, is one of them then great even if he ends up at OG.....Velasco won't be ready until November so really Wallace will be the only challenge for Pouncey unless a center is drafted (which I don't see)......

I said he declined since his rookie year since I thought he was a flatout BEAST his rookie year......

A lot of people share that view that's he's declined since his rookie year. The fact is that hes gotten better each year and actually struggled his rookie year more than we realize. I think a lot of that perception has to do with the useless centers (Mahan, Hartwig) that came before him lol. He was a significant upgrade to both his rookie year but he wasn't great. He gave up 17 QB hurries in his rookie year in 2010. He had less than that in 2011 and 2012 combined (8 each year). He gave up 3 sacks and 4 QB hits in his rookie year. 2011: 3 sacks, 2 QB hits. 2012: 2 sacks, 1 QB hit (tied for 3rd in the league). He's made huge strides in the pass protection department since his rookie year. His rookie year, PFF has him at -7.3 overall in pass protection. 2011 he made a nice improvement going from -7.3 in 2010 to -0.2 in 2011 and then to +2.3 in 2012. It's funny because based in PFF's rankings since he's been in the league, you see exactly what you hope to see in a young developing player. He's gotten progressively better each year. He struggled in 2010, improved in 2011, and was very good in 2012 (graded out positively in every category). His biggest improvement over his career has been in pass protection like I already pointed out. His rookie year he was very good against the run, declined a bit in that department in 2011, but then in 2012 he improved on where he was his rookie year. It's such a shame that he tore his ACL this year. I honestly believe we would've seen more progress from him, especially considering the scheme change.

Just in comparison, Velasco gave up 15 QB hurries this year (almost double what Pouncey gave up in 2011 and 2012 respectively {16 total over those 2 years}). And that was playing about 60 less snaps than Pouncey in 2012 as over a 100 less than Pouncey played in 2011.

Big T
02-04-2014, 11:36 AM
New Steelers offensive line coach Munchak is perfect tutor
February 4, 2014 6:23 AM
By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Justin Hartwig was the starting center in Super Bowl XLIII when the Steelers beat the Arizona Cardinals to claim their sixth Lombardi Trophy. The man most responsible for Hartwig earning that ring at the end of his career is the person who drafted him in the sixth round of the 2002 draft when he was a little-known tackle at the University of Kansas.

New Steelers offensive line coach Mike Munchak drafted Hartwig when he worked for the Tennessee Titans and converted him to center. Despite never playing the position previously, Hartwig became Tennessee's starter for three seasons and played eight NFL seasons before retiring in 2010.

"He was a great mentor and a great friend," Hartwig said. "I think the Steelers hit a grand slam home run in getting him. If I was drafted into another system, I don't know if I would have lasted in the NFL. He had patience with me, and he instilled confidence in me. I owe my NFL success to him."

The Steelers hired Munchak to fix an ailing offensive line that has produced unsatisfactory results in the running game and in pass protection for the past six seasons. Munchak spent the past 31 years working for the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans.

Drafted out of Penn State in 1982, Munchak had a Hall of Fame playing career as an offensive guard. Upon retirement in 1993, he went to work as a coach for the organization, spending 17 seasons as the offensive line coach before ascending to head coach for the past three seasons. He was fired at the end of the 2013 season after refusing to make changes to his coaching staff.

For many years of his coaching tenure in Tennessee, the Titans ranked among the top rushing teams in the NFL. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, Eddie George ran for 10,000 yards over an eight-year span as a running back behind Munchak's lines. More recently, Chris Johnson rushed for 2,000 yards in 2009.

The Steelers, conversely, have ranked among the worst teams running the football the past six seasons. They finished last season ranked 27th in rushing offense and managed just 1,383 yards, their fewest since 1966.

"He can make lesser guys better, and he can make really good players great, just by the way he explains things," said former Houston and Tennessee tight end Frank Wycheck, now a sports radio personality in Nashville. "When you sign your name with H.O.F. after it, you know what you're talking about. He has that instant credibility, that instant respect. And he's not a yeller or a screamer, so guys go in with a comfort level, a respect and an attitude that they want to play for this guy."

Munchak's run-game philosophy is rooted in the inside and outside zone-blocking scheme. Many of the top rushing offenses in the league use the zone-blocking scheme, and the Steelers attempted to install it last season under former line coach Jack Bicknell, Jr.

But, in the opener in September against Munchak's Titans at Heinz Field, Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey was lost for the season with a knee injury when guard David DeCastro's ill-fated cut-block attempt on a zone run play went awry.

Shortly thereafter, the Steelers abandon the zone scheme, even though Pouncey's replacement, Fernando Velasco, was well-schooled in it after playing for Munchak for five seasons in Tennessee.

According to Munchak's former players, the zone-blocking scheme can be difficult to learn, but once perfected it is difficult to defend.


"People with a high football IQ know that the running game starts with the five guys up front," said Brad Hopkins, a left tackle who played with Munchak in Houston and was coached by him for 12 seasons until his retirement in 2005. "That was Munch's responsibility, and he did it with zone schemes.

"It's a smart way to block things, to create holes. When you have a guy who can teach it, it will work. But there is no guarantee that it will work if you don't have the linemen who are capable of running it. For the offensive line, you have to have the timing, the communication; it's hard to implement that system. A zone team is reliant on the guy next to you rather than you relying on yourself."

Hartwig, who played for the Steelers in 2008 and 2009, said the linemen will be drilled in the classroom and on the field over and over again until they know the zone scheme inside and out.

"He's been running it his whole career," said Hartwig, who cashed in on his success in Tennessee with a big free-agent contract with Carolina in 2006. "It will be fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals and technique work. He is a great teacher. He understands the game. He's competed at that level. He knows how to drill into your head how to get the job done.

"The inside zone and outside zone were our bread and butter. That was the focus of what we did. With teams that have never run it in the past, it's definitely not something you pick up overnight, but it's extremely effective when it's run right and you have a coach to teach it. You definitely have to have the right coach for it to be effective."

Having the type of linemen to run the scheme is important, too. Hartwig, who spent an offseason and a training camp with Pouncey, said Pouncey is well-suited to be a center in a zone scheme because he is so athletic and possesses the smarts to recognize defensive alignments. He also said DeCastro will fit in well for the same reasons.

Wycheck, who played tight end in the NFL from 1993 to 2003, said Munchak will "love" working with veteran tight end Heath Miller because of his run-blocking abilities. Wycheck also said running back Le'Veon Bell is "perfect for that system."

"He's going to run the ball like Eddie George did for us," Wycheck said.

It remains to be seen how guard Ramon Foster, tackles Marcus Gilbert, Kelvin Beachum and Mike Adams adapt to the zone scheme, though. Gilbert and Beachum, however, possess the raw athletic skills necessary for success in that system.

All three former Titans said their advice to the players who will be learning the system this spring is patience.

"It takes time, but you have to stick with it," Hartwig said. "When it becomes second nature, that's when you get really good at it. Once the linemen get it, it's going to be a big weapon.

"But there is a reason there are some teams that are successful with it and run it all the time and there are reasons teams, like the Steelers, haven't done it or have scrapped it after trying it. It's not an easy thing. Once you drill it day in and day out, it becomes second nature. It's just a matter of trying to figure it out. Munch will drill them, drill them and drill them some more."

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/02/04/New-Steelers-offensive-line-coach-Munchak-is-perfect-tutor/stories/201402040094

WindyCityShaker
02-04-2014, 12:42 PM
A lot of people share that view that's he's declined since his rookie year. The fact is that hes gotten better each year and actually struggled his rookie year more than we realize. I think a lot of that perception has to do with the useless centers (Mahan, Hartwig) that came before him lol. He was a significant upgrade to both his rookie year but he wasn't great. He gave up 17 QB hurries in his rookie year in 2010. He had less than that in 2011 and 2012 combined (8 each year). He gave up 3 sacks and 4 QB hits in his rookie year. 2011: 3 sacks, 2 QB hits. 2012: 2 sacks, 1 QB hit (tied for 3rd in the league). He's made huge strides in the pass protection department since his rookie year. His rookie year, PFF has him at -7.3 overall in pass protection. 2011 he made a nice improvement going from -7.3 in 2010 to -0.2 in 2011 and then to +2.3 in 2012. It's funny because based in PFF's rankings since he's been in the league, you see exactly what you hope to see in a young developing player. He's gotten progressively better each year. He struggled in 2010, improved in 2011, and was very good in 2012 (graded out positively in every category). His biggest improvement over his career has been in pass protection like I already pointed out. His rookie year he was very good against the run, declined a bit in that department in 2011, but then in 2012 he improved on where he was his rookie year. It's such a shame that he tore his ACL this year. I honestly believe we would've seen more progress from him, especially considering the scheme change.

Just in comparison, Velasco gave up 15 QB hurries this year (almost double what Pouncey gave up in 2011 and 2012 respectively {16 total over those 2 years}). And that was playing about 60 less snaps than Pouncey in 2012 as over a 100 less than Pouncey played in 2011.

So I've got an observation, and what I think qualifies as a question.

First, I am a numbers guy, statistics, odds, rankings, ratings, I love data, and I love the kind of analysis that a source like PFF can provide.

PFF can absolutely provide analysis on the actual performance of a player given what they see on film, but how accurate is that grade without being in the huddle and knowing what the assignment was? Yes many times it can be discovered who might have missed an assignment, run the wrong route, etc. etc. but there's no actual certainty is there?

I don't think anyone has ever questioned Pouncey's talent, many have used the word over-rated as you pointed out, but that is not the same as saying whether he's talented or not. I also don't think I've heard anyone say Velasco>Pouncey. What is said often, and I subscribe to the belief, is that he is the better value over Pouncey considering our cap situation.

You supplied Pouncey's 2011 and 2012 PFF ratings, what were they for Velasco those years?

LatrobePA
02-04-2014, 12:55 PM
Pouncey has declined in a few short years...

NeilPatrickBanana
02-04-2014, 01:05 PM
So I've got an observation, and what I think qualifies as a question.

First, I am a numbers guy, statistics, odds, rankings, ratings, I love data, and I love the kind of analysis that a source like PFF can provide.

PFF can absolutely provide analysis on the actual performance of a player given what they see on film, but how accurate is that grade without being in the huddle and knowing what the assignment was? Yes many times it can be discovered who might have missed an assignment, run the wrong route, etc. etc. but there's no actual certainty is there?

I don't think anyone has ever questioned Pouncey's talent, many have used the word over-rated as you pointed out, but that is not the same as saying whether he's talented or not. I also don't think I've heard anyone say Velasco>Pouncey. What is said often, and I subscribe to the belief, is that he is the better value over Pouncey considering our cap situation.

You supplied Pouncey's 2011 and 2012 PFF ratings, what were they for Velasco those years?

Offensive Line and DB play is the hardest to subjectively analyze...

For example:
D calls a 4-3 Under Front RE Stunt
LE-NT-UT-RE

The Undertackle fronts outside the LG
The NT is in the C-RG gap

The Offensive play call is meant to counter the weakside front, by running an A gap cut back.

At the snap:
The LG rides the UT up the B gap
The C and RG doublt the NT in the strongside A gap.
The RE stunts inside and through the unprotected weakside A gap and stops the play for a short gain.

Who is at fault?

The tape of this play would make it look like the Center executed properly... but he didn't.

He should've come off the NT, almost immediately, and stayed in his gap.... as the gap would likely be filled by a stunting DE, or a reacting ILB, blitzing DB/LBer, etc.... and the NT would either be splitting the double on the strong side A gap, or driving the center into the weakside A, either way the Center should come off and lead into the unprotected gap, assuming the RB will make the correct read on the Nose.

on tape everything might have looked good though.

Big T
04-15-2014, 10:15 AM
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Mike-Munchak-on-zone-blocking-scheme/cfc06d26-9b01-45f3-b588-052cfd1de61b