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Dean Denton
01-03-2014, 11:19 PM
Looking back now at the season and seeing Watkins in a big time game I'm wishing we would have tanked the season. We'll never get this guy now. Any chance we can trade up to get him? What a stud....oh how I was wrong about him. Sorry fellas

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 11:26 PM
Yea, like I've been telling everyone for 12 months...

Big T
01-04-2014, 12:34 AM
Yea, like I've been telling everyone for 12 months...

Uh huh. He's a fraud ;)

TarlsQtr
01-04-2014, 01:12 AM
He's slow and has character issues...

;-)

Real Deal Steel
01-04-2014, 01:53 AM
Watkins was something else tonight. Man...he'd sure be a nice addition to our WR corps. Well, I've got to stop dreaming. Because he looks like a top 10 pick now.

Real Deal Steel
01-04-2014, 01:54 AM
Looking back now at the season and seeing Watkins in a big time game I'm wishing we would have tanked the season. We'll never get this guy now. Any chance we can trade up to get him? What a stud....oh how I was wrong about him. Sorry fellas

Nope...everyone wanted to feel good about an 8-8 season a second ago so don't go wishing we would have tanked now! LOL

LatrobePA
01-04-2014, 09:07 AM
He is badass...

steelchamp204
01-04-2014, 10:16 AM
I wish we would have tanked, whoever gets Watkins is going to win the next 8 Superbowls.

Yes, he is the best of the WR coming out. WR is deep in this draft. Don't make it sound like the end of the world since this team isn't drafting Watkins.

coldrolled
01-04-2014, 10:16 AM
Replay from High School.. He was playing against Hyde, from Naples High against Watkins S. Fort Myers High...

Watkins out played Hyde for the win....

Hyde is a beast of a back too.

Someone, look at the last few years... When did the 1st round WR's get picked?

Watkins is like a Boldin, Holmes, Hines in one. He is still not 6'3 plus

Real Deal Steel
01-04-2014, 03:32 PM
He is still not 6'3 plus

But he's everything else. LOL

Real Deal Steel
01-04-2014, 03:38 PM
Any word on the development of Justin Brown? I'm sad that Tony Clemons got away from us too.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-04-2014, 03:50 PM
Watkins is like a Boldin, Holmes, Hines in one. He is still not 6'3 plus

I don't really understand the comparison you made

If say Watkins is like Patterson with the ball in his hands, but like Green when the ball is in the air.

Or, I'd simply compare him to Julio

coldrolled
01-04-2014, 04:02 PM
I don't really understand the comparison you made

If say Watkins is like Patterson with the ball in his hands, but like Green when the ball is in the air.

Or, I'd simply compare him to Julio

I guess hes like, Boldin he plays hard find openings, like holmes is faster and catches a lot of wild balls, and hines as he blocks hard too...

Real Deal Steel
01-05-2014, 03:47 PM
Why are we talking about a guy who won't be there when we pick at # 15?? Shouldn't we be focusing on who WILL BE THERE when we select?

K Train
01-05-2014, 03:55 PM
I don't think he'll be there but Decastro and jones shouldn't have been there either

Real Deal Steel
01-05-2014, 04:21 PM
I don't think he'll be there but Decastro and jones shouldn't have been there either

Good point.

If Watkins miraculously were there, I would like to be the official Steeler draft selection card carrier so I could run up to the podium with the pick. :yellowthumb:

And notice i said "run"

Black@Gold Forever32
01-05-2014, 04:21 PM
I don't think he'll be there but Decastro and jones shouldn't have been there either

Was just going to say that......You never know come draft time who is going to fall....I personally want Benjamin, Evans more then Watkins but I won't complain at all if they draft Watkins....

Real Deal Steel
01-05-2014, 04:22 PM
I do covet Evans size along with his catching everything he touches.

JensK
01-05-2014, 04:50 PM
I like Evans, but he does not really excite me either. He is a huge man, who catches everything thrown at him, but I'd just like a really electrifying playmaker!

Black@Gold Forever32
01-05-2014, 04:51 PM
I do covet Evans size along with his catching everything he touches.

Evans is good at coming back to the QB when the QB is on the move as well.....Think him and Ben would click for sure.....Kelvin Benjamin though is guy I want the most and hope he declares....

Black@Gold Forever32
01-05-2014, 04:54 PM
I like Evans, but he does not really excite me either. He is a huge man, who catches everything thrown at him, but I'd just like a really electrifying playmaker!

I would say AB is an electrifying play-maker (best WR after the catch in the NFL) so I rather see the Steelers go big at WR but yea having two electrifying play-makers at WR isn't bad either....Steelers probably go NT at 15 anyway...lol

ChucktownSteeler
01-05-2014, 06:17 PM
There will be a run on QBs in Round 1. Anything is possible.

I still like Dennard.

Real Deal Steel
01-05-2014, 09:01 PM
The more QB's that are in the draft, the happier I get that we will get a quality stud in one of our areas of need at # 15.

Real Deal Steel
01-05-2014, 09:07 PM
Evans is good at coming back to the QB when the QB is on the move as well.....Think him and Ben would click for sure.....Kelvin Benjamin though is guy I want the most and hope he declares....

I watched Benjamin the last two games and he seemed to be jogging around to me. Didn't see the intensity that I wanted to see. If Benjamin had another 15-20 pounds on him, he'd be a great TE. I like Evans more then Benjamin at the WR position but if they drafted Benjamin, I wouldn't be outraged. Just give Benjamin a couple of hambergers and put him at TE. LOL

Nolrog
01-05-2014, 09:20 PM
I don't think he'll be there but Decastro and jones shouldn't have been there either

One of the mocks have him going #2 to the Rams (though, I think it's possible they trade out of that spot.

K Train
01-05-2014, 10:37 PM
I watched Benjamin the last two games and he seemed to be jogging around to me. Didn't see the intensity that I wanted to see. If Benjamin had another 15-20 pounds on him, he'd be a great TE. I like Evans more then Benjamin at the WR position but if they drafted Benjamin, I wouldn't be outraged. Just give Benjamin a couple of hambergers and put him at TE. LOL

Fsu DBS were playing hang man on a wipe off board lol can't look too far into that.

steelchamp204
01-05-2014, 11:28 PM
Watkins will be a raven. Book it

Big T
01-05-2014, 11:40 PM
Watkins will be a raven. Book it

Unless Baltimore is trading up, he is absolutely not making it that far.

TarlsQtr
01-05-2014, 11:49 PM
Unless Baltimore is trading up, he is absolutely not making it that far.

We draft ahead of the Ravens, who will pick 16 or 17 depending on a coin toss with the Cowboys.

If they draft Watkins without trading up, I will personally kick Tomlin and Colbert's a$$es.

Big T
01-05-2014, 11:53 PM
We draft ahead of the Ravens, who will pick 16 or 17 depending on a coin toss with the Cowboys.

If they draft Watkins without trading up, I will personally kick Tomlin and Colbert's a$$es.

Agreed. No chance he sniffs even 15. Especially after he lights up the combine. He's the premier WR in this draft. If Tavon Austin can go 8 overall, there's absolutely no reason Sammy watkins should make it out of the top 10.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:28 AM
T, I totally agree. One of the top needs of the ravens is to add a top notch wr on the other side of T. Smith. If we are sitting there with Watkins or Evans on the board, and don't take him , I will be livid. Evans should at least be there when we pick. To let Evans fall to the Ravens is unthinkable.

Big T
01-06-2014, 12:33 AM
If the Ravens land Evans or Benjamin, Jump-ball Joe will finally have his "Anquan Boldin" again. Meaning the guy that will go up and catch the "close your eyes and hope for a prayer" deep balls and Redzone balls he likes to throw.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:36 AM
T,

Why do you want to give me nightmares? Evans would be a great compliment to T. Smith. I dont want to think about that.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:41 AM
Early mocks have Watkins going to the Rams at #2 but who's to say the Rams are sold on Bradford? Bradford hasn't shown me he's their answer at QB.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 12:42 AM
T,

Why do you want to give me nightmares? Evans would be a great compliment to T. Smith. I dont want to think about that.

Ravens need a WR just as much as the Steelers do to compliment there #1. Don't be surprised if the Ravens don't choose one of these 3 guys.

1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Benjamin(If declares)

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:44 AM
I'm just not that high on Benjamin. But I'll check him out more closely in the coming months.

Big T
01-06-2014, 01:12 AM
I'm just not that high on Benjamin. But I'll check him out more closely in the coming months.

Needs to work on route running (which he certainly isn't terrible in) and isn't a blazer (but he's not slow), other than that he's a monster. Best receiver in this class (if he comes out) at going up and high pointing the ball (Evans is right there though). He's 6'5, 240 pounds. You've talked about how Antonio brown isn't a Redzone threat and while I don't completely agree with that, Benjamin is that kind of player you think of when you hear "Redzone threat"... Big, tall, strong, crazy hops, and has great hands. I'd be thrilled with Benjamin. I'm actually starting to prefer him over Evans a bit, though I'd be extremely happy with either.

coldrolled
01-06-2014, 06:56 AM
Well he is tall, catches great. runs a 4.6 is that fast enough for the NFL? Or is he faster really? Or is he a TE/WR

Maybe he would go in the 2nd round at #48

We shall see tonight once again, he does look good and has a freshman QB.

FlatsSteeler
01-06-2014, 07:57 AM
If Benjamin declares it's a no brainer......I am not sure he falls to #15 but it now looks like that is a possibility......After tonight he will be on everybody's radar......I'am just not sure he will declare.....

K Train
01-06-2014, 08:20 AM
Well he is tall, catches great. runs a 4.6 is that fast enough for the NFL? Or is he faster really? Or is he a TE/WR

Maybe he would go in the 2nd round at #48

We shall see tonight once again, he does look good and has a freshman QB.
4.6 is plenty fast, its other aspects of his game that will make or break him. He could just be a Reggie Williams type player in the pros

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 08:47 AM
Wow. Now there's a player who had tools but never reached his true potential.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-06-2014, 09:34 AM
4.6 is plenty fast, its other aspects of his game that will make or break him. He could just be a Reggie Williams type player in the pros

agreed. Benjamin has a very high ceiling, and a very low floor... huge risk... one worth taking IMO

JackLambert
01-06-2014, 09:49 AM
Watkins and Evans look great to me. Both are legit NFL ready. I'd happily take either.


(though they really need to draft D in the first two rounds...)

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 10:42 AM
I think Jordan Mathews is there in the 2nd, Not every single one of these receiver is going in the first. Just not going to happen, that's why this draft day will be exciting.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:05 PM
(though they really need to draft D in the first two rounds...)

I understand where your coming from. That D really needs some additions to it. But we can't pass up Evans if he's there at # 15 can we? But the best NT in the draft will also be there at # 15 too possibly. hmmmmmm

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 12:10 PM
I understand where your coming from. That D really needs some additions to it. But we can't pass up Evans if he's there at # 15 can we? But the best NT in the draft will also be there at # 15 too possibly. hmmmmmm

It's defensive line without a doubt in the first.

It's either Tuitt or Nix. There are plenty of other big receivers/te in the draft.

JackLambert
01-06-2014, 12:19 PM
I understand where your coming from. That D really needs some additions to it. But we can't pass up Evans if he's there at # 15 can we? But the best NT in the draft will also be there at # 15 too possibly. hmmmmmm

I really think it's NT or CB in the first. If things break funny, or the combine really changes some opinions, they could take a WR in the 1st. Seems like a real luxury and missed chance to help the D though. I'd really like DL/DB in the first two rounds (if there's a good fit, obviously) and then take whomever you like. For me, I'd even consider going D in the first four rounds (NT,CB,DE,S) and then filling in the offense WR/TE/RB.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 12:24 PM
I really think it's NT or CB in the first. If things break funny, or the combine really changes some opinions, they could take a WR in the 1st. Seems like a real luxury and missed chance to help the D though. I'd really like DL/DB in the first two rounds (if there's a good fit, obviously) and then take whomever you like. For me, I'd even consider going D in the first four rounds (NT,CB,DE,S) and then filling in the offense WR/TE/RB.

Lack of turnover this season and more production of big plays given up were the result of the Dline/LB not getting enough pressure. Give Heyward some help and then that helps out JJ/Worilds. Then the turnovers will go back up.

It is without question that this team needs much more help on the defensive side of the ball than offensive. WR in the first is a luxury, not a NEED.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:34 PM
steelchamp, I definitely see where your coming from. Re tooling that D-line would totally bring back our pass rush and make Heyward and JJ monsters. Tough, tough decisions.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:35 PM
I really think it's NT or CB in the first. If things break funny, or the combine really changes some opinions, they could take a WR in the 1st. Seems like a real luxury and missed chance to help the D though. I'd really like DL/DB in the first two rounds (if there's a good fit, obviously) and then take whomever you like. For me, I'd even consider going D in the first four rounds (NT,CB,DE,S) and then filling in the offense WR/TE/RB.

This would work if we seriously used free agency.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 12:36 PM
Lack of turnover this season and more production of big plays given up were the result of the Dline/LB not getting enough pressure. Give Heyward some help and then that helps out JJ/Worilds. Then the turnovers will go back up.

It is without question that this team needs much more help on the defensive side of the ball than offensive. WR in the first is a luxury, not a NEED.

I can't argue with you. Makes too much sense. Just asking,...who's the best WR that will be in free agency?

TarlsQtr
01-06-2014, 12:39 PM
Lack of turnover this season and more production of big plays given up were the result of the Dline/LB not getting enough pressure. Give Heyward some help and then that helps out JJ/Worilds. Then the turnovers will go back up.

It is without question that this team needs much more help on the defensive side of the ball than offensive. WR in the first is a luxury, not a NEED.

Well, if Sanders leaves (probable) wouldn't it become a need? Wheaton showed nothing (hopefully just the perfect storm of being a rookie and getting injured) and cannot be just penciled in as a #2 WR.

Of course that does not mean it has to be filled with the number 15 pick in the draft although I do not see how we could pass on Watkins/Benjamin. If they are gone, someone like a Tuitt.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 12:41 PM
I can't argue with you. Makes too much sense. Just asking,...who's the best WR that will be in free agency?

Not sure about FA, but remember we have Justin Brown developing and the WR position is pretty deep in the draft. I just feel that it is a stretch to get one at 15 in the first.

Now if we had a defense like SF/Seattle/Cinci/Carolina. You bet damn well I would go WR at 15 if we missed the playoffs and had a 8-8 record. But them teams have dominating defenses and are in the playoffs with solid offenses. I think the Steelers right now are a SOLID offense, just the defense is below average.

Big T
01-06-2014, 12:44 PM
Passing up a big time playmaker on offense just because defense may be a bigger need would be a mistake. Reaching for a defensive player would be stupid if there is a better offensive weapon on the board. BPA all the way. If the receivers are off the board but someone like Mack is still there, absolutely go Mack. But going defense just because it's a bigger need isn't the way to approach it.

BPA is honestly the way to go. Whether that be WR, NT, CB, DE, TE, OL, S, etc...

K Train
01-06-2014, 12:50 PM
I can't argue with you. Makes too much sense. Just asking,...who's the best WR that will be in free agency?
lol Jericho Cotchery or James Jones probably.

WR is a need imo, its a big need, and could provide a quick fix for some other problems (running game mostly). They wont be going anywhere unless the offense can improve, defense has its own issues but first and foremost they need to score points. Building a defense to get after the QB and sit back and protect leads is much easier than building one that mask an offenses deficiencies by only allowing 13 points a game

WindyCityShaker
01-06-2014, 01:05 PM
lol Jericho Cotchery or James Jones probably.

WR is a need imo, its a big need, and could provide a quick fix for some other problems (running game mostly). They wont be going anywhere unless the offense can improve, defense has its own issues but first and foremost they need to score points. Building a defense to get after the QB and sit back and protect leads is much easier than building one that mask an offenses deficiencies by only allowing 13 points a game

It's absolutely a need but one I think I would roll the dice on for what's left in the 2nd, Matthews should be there, not sure about Robinson; any TE's that can stretch the field in the 2nd?

Without a schematic change on D, we know that we need strength up the middle, we excelled back when big snack was in his prime, and I'm just crushing so hard on Nix right now. As good as we all see Cam getting, imagine him with some help by his side, he's a player that could literally make everyone better on that D.

If Nix is gone then absolutely grab the best playmaker available, but we cannot continue to get gashed by the run while also being extremely susceptible in the secondary.

JackLambert
01-06-2014, 01:12 PM
This would work if we seriously used free agency.

Yeah... I'm of the opinion that Cotch and even Sanders will return. That, and some hope that the young WRs improve could make WR less of a need. Of course, if the in house FA WRs leave then it's a huge need. It really depends on what the roster looks like for the draft and then what's available at 15. I'm certainly not in favor of reaching for a NT at that spot just because we need one, especially if Watkins was miraculously there... As it stands I want defense addressed early and often in the draft but that could change in the next three months.

JackLambert
01-06-2014, 01:15 PM
Passing up a big time playmaker on offense just because defense may be a bigger need would be a mistake. Reaching for a defensive player would be stupid if there is a better offensive weapon on the board.

It obviously depends on who we have and what's available at #15. I don't disagree with you. In a vacuum, right now, all things being equal, I'm taking that Defensive player at #15. That's all.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 01:40 PM
Well, if Sanders leaves (probable) wouldn't it become a need? Wheaton showed nothing (hopefully just the perfect storm of being a rookie and getting injured) and cannot be just penciled in as a #2 WR.

Of course that does not mean it has to be filled with the number 15 pick in the draft although I do not see how we could pass on Watkins/Benjamin. If they are gone, someone like a Tuitt.

Well according to most, Sanders was useless anyways. I still think we should resign him to be honest. He had a good season imho. Besides the Ravens drop.

I believe Wheaton never hit his stride due to lack of playing time/being injured for some time. They should of found some ways to get him involved in about 3 plays a game, even if it was just a WR screen to build confidence. Never happened though.

WR in the draft is WAY more deep than a 3-4 NT or a 3-4 DE

Outside of Nix/Tuitt, there aren't really that many other players to play the 3-4 position other than projects that "could be"

The only two other guy I really like to fit the LE position would be..

Trent Murphy-2nd rounder I think, not sure if he is there at 47

Josh Mauro-4th rounder, maybe 3rd.

The ONLY WR I would take at 15 is Benjamin. If he is there along with Tuitt and Nix, I'd be happy with any of them 3. This team can not ignore the Dline this season though.

Now if we lose Worilds, this changes the whole ballgame. That's why Worilds is a must sign in the offseason, we don't need another draft setback like we are in now at the CB position because we didn't want to pony up for Lewis, now we need to draft a CB as a need also.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 02:26 PM
Well, with possibly three teams taking QB right above us, we are going to have a couple of good players pushed down to us. So with that said, who do you take?:

1. Nix
2. Evans
3. Cameron Erving (OT)
4. C.J. Moseley (ILB)

If..and this is a big IF.....if they have a sleeper WR that they feel really good about, then they could go Nix. But whatever WR they get, they can't miss if their going to take him later in the draft.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 02:32 PM
Analysis on Louis Nix from CBS Sports:

OVERVIEW
The Florida native comes from a tough background and is a long way from home, but the 325-pounder has a bright football future if he stays dedicated to the game. Nix was highly recruited out of high school and chose Notre Dame over several in-state programs, including Florida, Florida State and Miami (Fla.).
After redshirting in 2010, he started 11 games the following year as a first-year player at the nose guard position, anchoring the middle of the Irish's three-man front. Nix finished with 45 tackles, 4.5 tackles for loss and a half sack.

After a breakthrough 2012, Nix was overweight to start the '13 season. Just as he started to round into shape, he missed two games with knee tendinitis. When healthy, Nix displayed the unique blend of power and burst that has earned him first round buzz throughout much of his career.

Nix has struggled with the pressure and expectations of playing for a high-profile program away from home, but he flashes a rare skill-set for a player his size and strength.

While Nix's game certainly warrants first round consideration, the junior will have to be cautious jumping to the NFL early as his final grade could be determined by his health. Brian Kelly announced that Nix had undergone platelet-rich plasma therapy and that he will require knee surgery following the season. (11/14/13)

ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS: Nix is built like a full-grown man with a large frame and strong muscle definition throughout his body. He has nimble feet with the lateral quickness to explode in any direction and chase down the action in pursuit. He plays hard with a feisty motor. Applies quick pressure by splitting gaps, using a quick arm-over swim move and bull-rushing his opponent deep into the pocket.


WEAKNESSES: Entered the 2013 season a bit overweight and struggled to dominate early in the year following a breakout 2012 campaign. Medical check will be important with expected postseason knee surgery.

--Rob Rang

K Train
01-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Nix could be compared to Wilfork, a rare player for the position, which is why i would be ok with him in the first

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Well, with possibly three teams taking QB right above us, we are going to have a couple of good players pushed down to us. So with that said, who do you take?:

1. Nix
2. Evans
3. Cameron Erving (OT)
4. C.J. Moseley (ILB)

If..and this is a big IF.....if they have a sleeper WR that they feel really good about, then they could go Nix. But whatever WR they get, they can't miss if their going to take him later in the draft.

I'm going Nix easily. Beachum is fine at LT and we don't need a ILB in the first.. I would like Max Bullough in the later rounds though. No way on Evans.

I remember people calling out Manziel when he was being cocky after he returned from his suspension this season, Evans did his best TO impersonation in the Bowl game they had this season. Now if this were Wallace/Brown, everyone would call for there heads.

If you didnt watch that bowlgame, you would have no idea what I am talking about.

Evans was going down the sideline deep, missed the catch. Then there was no flag, as usual. Evans whines about the no call and went overboard with his actions like some little child. Then he said something to the ref and got flagged a 15 yard unsportsmanlike call. At that time of the game, the Aggies were down and needed a drive since Dukes first 2 possession went for TDs.

I'm not hating on Evans, but he thinks he should get a defensive PI call each and every time it seems. On most cases, he should be the one getting flagged for pushing off all the time. He won't get away with that in the NFL.

I would take Benjamin/Mathews/Robinson and even Lee over Evans. There is more to being a WR than just being big.

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 03:31 PM
Sounds to me Evans would fit right in with most of the WR in the NFL from what your describing. :lol:

K Train
01-06-2014, 03:35 PM
Evans was being competitive, theres worse qualities in a pro sports player lol

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 03:37 PM
I"ve got my eye on Aaron Colvin of Oklahoma. He has a nice combination of size, speed and willing to make a physical tackle. I"m thinking we can get him in the 3rd round.

ChucktownSteeler
01-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Right now I think secondary help is most needed.

DENNARD

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 05:53 PM
I"ve got my eye on Aaron Colvin of Oklahoma. He has a nice combination of size, speed and willing to make a physical tackle. I"m thinking we can get him in the 3rd round.

I have us taking Colvin in the 3rd in my mock in the War Room of the forums. He would fit the system greatly.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 05:55 PM
Evans was being competitive, theres worse qualities in a pro sports player lol

Come on dude, did you see the game? That was a little more than being "competative".

K Train
01-06-2014, 05:56 PM
Definitely frustrated, being down to an inferior team

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:08 AM
Okay..

Watched Kelvin Benjamin in the Championship game and watching him high point that ball in the end zone had me dreaming of him wearing Black and Gold. :tt02:

What an absolute load he is.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:09 AM
Okay..

Watched Kelvin Benjamin in the Championship game and watching him high point that ball in the end zone had me dreaming of him wearing Black and Gold. :tt02:

What an absolute load he is.

Its why I started pimping him weeks ago.....My favorite player in the draft if he declares.....

SuperSteelers
01-07-2014, 12:11 AM
I feel bad for whoever drafts Jameis Winston on many levels. I'm not going to get into it with any of you but my eyes and ears tell me it won't be good.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:11 AM
Tim Jernigan would be a great pick in the 2nd, not sure why some think he can't play a 3-4 NT. I'd be all for Benjamin in the 1st and then Jernigan in the 2nd, Colvin/Fuller in the 3rd.

Besides that catch, Benjamin had a below average game though. He opened it up for Greene though tonight.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:12 AM
I feel bad for whoever drafts Jameis Winston on many levels. I'm not going to get into it with any of you but my eyes and ears tell me it won't be good.

He's a rookie, relax.

SuperSteelers
01-07-2014, 12:14 AM
He's a rookie, relax.

I'm as relaxed as it gets.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:17 AM
Tim Jernigan would be a great pick in the 2nd, not sure why some think he can't play a 3-4 NT. I'd be all for Benjamin in the 1st and then Jernigan in the 2nd, Colvin/Fuller in the 3rd.

Besides that catch, Benjamin had a below average game though. He opened it up for Greene though tonight.

Winston starting slow in the game didn't help.....Benjamin did have one bad drop but yea his stats were not overwhelming but his TD is why I want him so badly.......Just a BEAST in the red zone.....Brown and Benjamin would be a deadly WR combo.....

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:18 AM
Tim Jernigan would be a great pick in the 2nd, not sure why some think he can't play a 3-4 NT. I'd be all for Benjamin in the 1st and then Jernigan in the 2nd, Colvin/Fuller in the 3rd.

Besides that catch, Benjamin had a below average game though. He opened it up for Greene though tonight.

I wouldn't want to be known as the guy Kirk herbstreet couldn't shut up about being out of breath

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:19 AM
Benjamin had 2 nice grabs in key moments. He was easily blanketed most of the game though.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:20 AM
Winston starting slow in the game didn't help.....Benjamin did have one bad drop but yea his stats were not overwhelming but his TD is why I want him so badly.......Just a BEAST in the red zone.....Brown and Benjamin would be a deadly WR combo.....

I think any 6'3+ WR will help Brown out, it would get him freed up more and it would help Bell out more. Like I said. I am all for a WR in the first as long as we go NT/DL in the 2nd.

I said about a month ago about Jernigan, I think he is legit. He did pretty damn well against a very good Oline in Auburn tonight. Might be a little on the light side, but it would be hard for him to put on some weight. Kid is damn good with his hands, keeping the Olinemen off of him.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:21 AM
I'm as relaxed as it gets.

Well, you sound like a hater. It was his biggest game of his college career up to this point. He was money in the 2nd half and couldn't get any more clutch than on the last drive.

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:21 AM
I don't know about "blanketed" as much as Winston was off his game most of the night. Winston was throwing the ball high, accuracy was off, ...I think Benjamin's lack of numbers had more to do with Winston.

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:22 AM
Winston was rattled no doubt, but they did a damn good job on Benjamin 90% of the game

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:24 AM
I wouldn't want to be known as the guy Kirk herbstreet couldn't shut up about being out of breath

He played about every down, everyone knew the dline was going to be gassed by the 4th especially when they played on defense it seemed like the whole first half. Let alone being double teamed and ran at almost every single down.

He had a very solid game, to rip him for being out of breathe is nit picking imho.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:24 AM
Benjamin is far from a finished product but his upside is tremendous........

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:24 AM
Well, you sound like a hater. It was his biggest game of his college career up to this point. He was money in the 2nd half and couldn't get any more clutch than on the last drive.

You can't write the book on Winston just yet. Gzzzzz. He's a freshman dude. At the end of next season, he'll declare himself so let's watch his maturation process into next season. Then we can get a better read.

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:26 AM
Benjamin is far from a finished product but his upside is tremendous........

I could see Benjamin being in better condition in the NFL. But he is a beast. And you know the Ravens were salivating tonight over Benjamin too.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:29 AM
I could see Benjamin being in better condition in the NFL. But he is a beast. And you know the Ravens were salivating tonight over Benjamin too.

Flaccid is for sure.....Get me that WR that can go up and catch my moon balls....lol

I want Benjamin or Evans....I won't complain at all if Watkins is drafted to.....If the Steelers don't go WR in the first then Allen Robinson sounds good in the 2nd round...I'm such a Penn State hater as well so that is how much I like Robinson even though I really hate Penn State.....lol

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:29 AM
He played about every down, everyone knew the dline was going to be gassed by the 4th especially when they played on defense it seemed like the whole first half. Let alone being double teamed and ran at almost every single down.

He had a very solid game, to rip him for being out of breathe is nit picking imho.
It was a different defense without him but I thought that was pretty embarrassing. National championship game, can't be flaking out in the 4th

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:32 AM
Flaccid is for sure.....Get me that WR that can go up and catch my moon balls....lol

I want Benjamin or Evans....I won't complain at all if Watkins is drafted to.....If the Steelers don't go WR in the first then Allen Robinson sounds good in the 2nd round...I'm such a Penn State hater as well so that is how much I like Robinson even though I really hate Penn State.....lol

I don't think AR will be there in the 2nd, well at least at 47. I can see Mathews being there from Vandy, I would be happy with him as well.

I think Evans and Benjamin will be there at 15. Well, do the Ravens pick before us??? If they do, I can see them taking Evans.

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:33 AM
Ravens have 1 or 2 picks after us depending on a coin toss

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:34 AM
Ravens pick right behind us, if we don't take Evans, they will. But if Evans is gone with Watkins, we should move on Benjamin. Because if we don't the Ravens surly will. And how would you guys feel about a guy who we should have drafted, torture us for years to come? :evilshake:

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:36 AM
I don't think AR will be there in the 2nd, well at least at 47. I can see Mathews being there from Vandy, I would be happy with him as well.

I think Evans and Benjamin will be there at 15. Well, do the Ravens pick before us??? If they do, I can see them taking Evans.

Yea I don't think Robinson will be there in the 2nd as well but you never know......I know we have to fix the defense but I would love an all offense draft....lol It will never happen....lol

K Train
01-07-2014, 12:37 AM
Still a long ways to go. Combine will make or break him and he hasnt declared yet, just a rs soph. Might go for round two with his QB

Real Deal Steel
01-07-2014, 12:37 AM
I have a feeling that Evans and Watkins will both be gone by the time we pick at 15. I hope I'm wrong, but I've just got that feeling. Especially with the Rams sitting there at # 2.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:38 AM
Yea I don't think Robinson will be there in the 2nd as well but you never know......I know we have to fix the defense but I would love an all offense draft....lol It will never happen....lol

I could see it going two ways in the draft this season.

1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Defense
4. Offense
5. Defense
Or

1. Defense
2. Defense
3. Offense
4. Offense
5. Defense

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:38 AM
I'm hoping he declares....Hope he is going to have agents in his ear telling to declare and shooting up his draft value...lol

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:39 AM
I could see it going two ways in the draft this season.

1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Defense
4. Offense
5. Defense
Or

1. Defense
2. Defense
3. Offense
4. Offense
5. Defense

I'm telling you right now the first three picks will be NT, Corner, Safety....lol Just a feeling I have...I hope I'm dead ****ing wrong.......Coach Cliche is a tool......

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:41 AM
But a pass rusher is a huge *** need to...I doubt Worilds is back, all we can count on Woodley for is to get ****ing fat and miss games as this point.....Jarvis Jones?

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:43 AM
I'm telling you right now the first three picks will be NT, Corner, Safety....lol Just a feeling I have...I hope I'm dead ****ing wrong.......Coach Cliche is a tool......

Ok, could you imagine this. This would be a pipe dream.

1. Evans
2. Mathews
3. Colvin
4. Mauro(Maybe even trade up for another 3rd to get him)

You would have Brown/Evans/Heath/Mathews/Cothery. Now right there is depth lmfao

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:46 AM
Ok, could you imagine this. This would be a pipe dream.

1. Evans
2. Mathews
3. Colvin
4. Mauro(Maybe even trade up for another 3rd to get him)

You would have Brown/Evans/Heath/Mathews/Cothery. Now right there is depth lmfao

That would be sweet....Really I just want the Steelers to have a great draft......Just be smart with the picks.....

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 12:48 AM
That would be sweet....Really I just want the Steelers to have a great draft......Just be smart with the picks.....

I hope so also, I'm glad Tomlin/Lebeau aren't letting rookies sit on the bench now for 2-3 years also. I will give Tomlin credit for that, even though his hand has been forced to do so.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2014, 12:53 AM
I hope so also, I'm glad Tomlin/Lebeau aren't letting rookies sit on the bench now for 2-3 years also. I will give Tomlin credit for that, even though his hand has been forced to do so.

The old man needs to go...I love Dick LeBeau don't get me wrong....He is an NFL legend and he has forgotten more football then I will ever know but I just think change is really good.......

K Train
01-07-2014, 07:51 AM
The old man needs to go...I love Dick LeBeau don't get me wrong....He is an NFL legend and he has forgotten more football then I will ever know but I just think change is really good.......

Thats pretty much how i feel

K Train
01-07-2014, 08:02 AM
I'm telling you right now the first three picks will be NT, Corner, Safety....lol Just a feeling I have...I hope I'm dead ****ing wrong.......Coach Cliche is a tool......
I wouldnt hate that to be honest. I want a WR or TE but damn, that could revamp the defense in one shot

K Train
01-07-2014, 08:10 AM
Im really interested to see benjamin workout (and if he even declares) but i cant get past seeing reggie williams with him, its uncanny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAyhX0bkl3Y

FlatsSteeler
01-07-2014, 09:07 AM
My problem with Benjamin, and I have watched every game he played in this season, is he seems to take a "Brain Fart Break" from time to time and he has a propensity to drop passes that should be caught and he makes catches that look impossible....but ......as a Red Zone Threat he is terrific.......I still say if the kid declares(I have a feeling he will stay in Tallahassee one more season with Winston)and he is available at #15 we pick him.....He has way too much Upside.....

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 09:34 AM
I agree K Train.

Before I get attacked for "criticizing" Benjamin, please note that my most recent mock draft has us taking James or Benjamin. I am fully on board with the risk associated with "big WRs" who lack athleticism, but are nonetheless matchup nightmares.

Benjamin is simply not a great athlete. He's not slow, but he has no burst. He lumbers. His route tree is pretty minimal, and he's not going to be a "long" downfield threat in the NFL. I just don't think he's going to have the deep speed for it. And his hands are pretty terrible. He goes up and gets the ball, no doubt... that's his elite talent. But catching the ball in stride, across the middle, on the run... or making the sideline toe drag while plucking the ball... too many drops.

He's the lotto ticket. He DEFINITELY has the rare combination of size and "some athleticism" to develop into the "Baby Megatron" nickname he's carrying around. But he also has the bust factor to be Reggie Williams.

I am on board with taking the chance. If you hit a home run on that chance... then the offense is ready to contend again.
A miss, on the other hand, would set the franchise back...

K Train
01-07-2014, 09:42 AM
Michael floyd was a long strider as well who lacked burst, hes coming along nicely so its not like theres no hope. I get the appeal for how big he is, he IS a legit redzone threat but i fear he might be too one dimensional, id prefer much more well rounded over just pure size

Julio Jones drew comparisons to Reggie Williams too pre draft (i was much higher on jones than most, and definitely higher than green or baldwin), but people were expecting julio to run a 4.6 and he dazzled with a 4.3. He had some dropsy issues, and his quickness and routes were in question but he was always good for a circus diving catch too.

Be interesting to see how it plays out with benjamin

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 09:49 AM
Michael floyd was a long strider as well who lacked burst, hes coming along nicely so its not like theres no hope. I get the appeal for how big he is, he IS a legit redzone threat but i fear he might be too one dimensional, id prefer much more well rounded over just pure size

Julio Jones drew comparisons to Reggie Williams too pre draft (i was much higher on jones than most, and definitely higher than green or baldwin), but people were expecting julio to run a 4.6 and he dazzled with a 4.3. He had some dropsy issues, and his quickness and routes were in question but he was always good for a circus diving catch too.

Be interesting to see how it plays out with benjamin

but Benjamin won't run anything in the vicinity of a 4.3
If he runs in the mid 4.4s I'll be shocked... and willing to trade up to get him...
I think he's more of a 4.55-4.60 guy... and I won't be surprised if he's clocks in the 4.6s.

Calvin ran a 4.32, and was so much more polished... the reality is that Benjamin is very much unpolished as a WR. He's dominated on raw size/power... and his gift for "going up and getting it". Steelers fans would probably erupt in fury because he definitely would not start right away. But I'm sure Mann would like to get his hands on him and mold him.

I think a good, recent, comparison from a development perspective is Alshon Jeffrey. He needed to be coached up, and molded... he was not "ready upon arrival", and neither will Benjamin be.

K Train
01-07-2014, 09:58 AM
i fully expect him to be a 4.6 guy, 4.5 would be money for him though

He is very raw, hes a stronger ramses barden but played at a bigger, better school and has had better coaching. I do not think he will contribute right away at all (barden was just a terrible fit for their offense to begin with). His route running reminds me a lot of barden though who was flirting with a first round grade and dropped to the 3rd

Again, this is very much subject to change. He is 5th on my WR rankings right now, with potential through the roof

FlatsSteeler
01-07-2014, 10:03 AM
Banana and K Train......You both elaborated on what I was and have been saying as well......I have very mixed thoughts on this kid and I will once again state I doubt he declares making all of this chatter mute.....The following has him ranked in the top 10 for 2014 Draft:
Kelvin Benjamin, Redshirt Sophomore, Florida State - 6’5″, 235 Pounds
Soon-to-be 23-year-old Kelvin Benjamin is only a redshirt sophomore. He doesn’t look like one; he looks like former Seminole Greg Carr but with far superior quickness. A big-bodied receiver who can threaten over the middle and vertically, Benjamin has uncommon speed for his size. He showcases great length in space and has the wingspan to secure jump balls, suggesting he could be more than a possession receiver. Now he may not have the most complete hands or footwork and he’s still putting it all together, but the way in which Benjamin uses his body and overpowers smaller corners reveals some Dwayne Bowe. Nonetheless, Benjamin is three inches taller and will be contrasted with the Aggies’ touted Mike Evans.
Although Watkins, Evans, and Lee are higher rated I would take the chance on Benjamin if he is there......

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 10:05 AM
i fully expect him to be a 4.6 guy, 4.5 would be money for him though

He is very raw, hes a stronger ramses barden but played at a bigger, better school and has had better coaching. I do not think he will contribute right away at all (barden was just a terrible fit for their offense to begin with). His route running reminds me a lot of barden though who was flirting with a first round grade and dropped to the 3rd

Again, this is very much subject to change. He is 5th on my WR rankings right now, with potential through the roof

I like the "big school" Barden comparison
side note : I was promoting the idea of trying to sign Barden last offseason, he was UFA... and signed for 1 yr 780k... that would've been a shot worth taking over re-signing Plax.

Benjamin is #3 for me right now... and yes, it's primarily because of the ceiling/potential.

1st round - TOP 5
1. Watkins

-large gap-

1st round - TOP 20
2. Evans
3. Benjamin

-small gap-

1st-2nd
4. Robinson

-small gap-

1st-2nd
5. Matthews
6. Lee

-gap-

2nd
7. Cooks
8. Beckham Jr
9. Adams
10. Landry

Brandon Coleman.... may not have 2nd round value, but if we went in a different direction in the 1st... he's a guy who has the measurables and skill set we are looking for.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 10:10 AM
Banana and K Train......You both elaborated on what I was and have been saying as well......I have very mixed thoughts on this kid and I will once again state I doubt he declares making all of this chatter mute.....The following has him ranked in the top 10 for 2014 Draft:
Kelvin Benjamin, Redshirt Sophomore, Florida State - 6’5″, 235 Pounds
Soon-to-be 23-year-old Kelvin Benjamin is only a redshirt sophomore. He doesn’t look like one; he looks like former Seminole Greg Carr but with far superior quickness. A big-bodied receiver who can threaten over the middle and vertically, Benjamin has uncommon speed for his size. He showcases great length in space and has the wingspan to secure jump balls, suggesting he could be more than a possession receiver. Now he may not have the most complete hands or footwork and he’s still putting it all together, but the way in which Benjamin uses his body and overpowers smaller corners reveals some Dwayne Bowe. Nonetheless, Benjamin is three inches taller and will be contrasted with the Aggies’ touted Mike Evans.
Although Watkins, Evans, and Lee are higher rated I would take the chance on Benjamin if he is there......

I see very little value in a WR going back to school. I understand it for the development of QBs... I even understand it in developing Oline. But a skill position player like WR or RB, has little to no reason to go back to school. The financial incentive just isn't there (improving your draft position has little value with the rookie wage scale). You are better off getting to the NFLl, getting on the field, and getting to free agency.

K Train
01-07-2014, 10:10 AM
Evans?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 10:15 AM
Evans?

yea, brain fart... no idea why i wrote James.

steelchamp204
01-07-2014, 10:41 AM
I like the "big school" Barden comparison
side note : I was promoting the idea of trying to sign Barden last offseason, he was UFA... and signed for 1 yr 780k... that would've been a shot worth taking over re-signing Plax.

Benjamin is #3 for me right now... and yes, it's primarily because of the ceiling/potential.

1st round - TOP 5
1. Watkins

-large gap-

1st round - TOP 20
2. Evans
3. Benjamin

-small gap-

1st-2nd
4. Robinson

-small gap-

1st-2nd
5. Matthews
6. Lee

-gap-

2nd
7. Cooks
8. Beckham Jr
9. Adams
10. Landry

Brandon Coleman.... may not have 2nd round value, but if we went in a different direction in the 1st... he's a guy who has the measurables and skill set we are looking for.


I had him picked out as well. Never really had a huge monster season at Rutgers, but I don't think he ever had anyone around him..

I think he can go anywhere from 3rd-6th round. What do you think Neil? I think he is faster than Benjamin and Evans.

FlatsSteeler
01-07-2014, 10:44 AM
I see very little value in a WR going back to school. I understand it for the development of QBs... I even understand it in developing Oline. But a skill position player like WR or RB, has little to no reason to go back to school. The financial incentive just isn't there (improving your draft position has little value with the rookie wage scale). You are better off getting to the NFLl, getting on the field, and getting to free agency.

I agree but Jimbo has sold the "Team of Destiny" concept to these kids and Winston won't be coming out until 2015 Benjamin will follow suit........ I understand Benjamin has indicated he would like to stay one more season and realizes he needs a little work.....All that being said some greedy agent will get into this kids head with thoughts of the Big $$$$$$$ and all could change......

NeilPatrickBanana
01-07-2014, 12:27 PM
I had him picked out as well. Never really had a huge monster season at Rutgers, but I don't think he ever had anyone around him..

I think he can go anywhere from 3rd-6th round. What do you think Neil? I think he is faster than Benjamin and Evans.

I think he can go anywhere in the 2nd-4th range.

I do not think he's faster in any noticeable way.

If you take Benjamin's measureables... Coleman is a notch below all of them. But his skillset is the same.

WindyCityShaker
01-09-2014, 11:31 AM
I think he can go anywhere in the 2nd-4th range.

I do not think he's faster in any noticeable way.

If you take Benjamin's measureables... Coleman is a notch below all of them. But his skillset is the same.

Then move on defense in the first and grab any of the other WR potentials, and/or Coleman later. For my taste it is waaayyyy too high of a pick to use on a guy who can't even get any separation at the college level, I understand that's his "skill set" but I agree with your assessment for the most part of where all the WR's fall, look at how many "small gaps" there are! For me in the first, it's Watkins or no thank you, we have more pressing needs on D, who are some pretty good football players that WILL fall to us. I also don't want to take someone because we're afraid the Ravens will if we don't.

steelchamp204
01-09-2014, 11:43 AM
Then move on defense in the first and grab any of the other WR potentials, and/or Coleman later. For my taste it is waaayyyy too high of a pick to use on a guy who can't even get any separation at the college level, I understand that's his "skill set" but I agree with your assessment for the most part of where all the WR's fall, look at how many "small gaps" there are! For me in the first, it's Watkins or no thank you, we have more pressing needs on D, who are some pretty good football players that WILL fall to us. I also don't want to take someone because we're afraid the Ravens will if we don't.

I would be all for Nix in the first, Aaron Lynch in the later rounds. Resign Hood for depth and rotate McLendon and Woods for Nix. We would keep the dline fresh for the most part of the game and decent depth.

K Train
01-09-2014, 11:51 AM
We dont want hood, not for depth, not to start, nothing

steelchamp204
01-09-2014, 11:55 AM
We dont want hood, not for depth, not to start, nothing

I think he would be cheap and a decent depth signing.

You remember that guy at the beginning of the season who showed us the Evander Hood workout and said he was going to have a monster season because he was benching more, then after we bashed him. He challenged us to workout with him. lmfao

K Train
01-09-2014, 11:59 AM
I think he would be cheap and a decent depth signing.

You remember that guy at the beginning of the season who showed us the Evander Hood workout and said he was going to have a monster season because he was benching more, then after we bashed him. He challenged us to workout with him. lmfao
regardless, hes dead weight...could find depth with some actual potential instead for even cheaper

coldrolled
01-09-2014, 03:01 PM
regardless, hes dead weight...could find depth with some actual potential instead for even cheaper

Arnfelt

LatrobePA
01-09-2014, 03:02 PM
We dont want hood, not for depth, not to start, nothing

Hood is lousy!

Big T
01-09-2014, 04:21 PM
Honestly, let hood walk. He's horrible (at least in this scheme). I'd sign Keisel to a 1-year, vet min deal though.

Mike Tomlin
01-09-2014, 05:31 PM
but Benjamin won't run anything in the vicinity of a 4.3
If he runs in the mid 4.4s I'll be shocked... and willing to trade up to get him...
I think he's more of a 4.55-4.60 guy... and I won't be surprised if he's clocks in the 4.6s.

Calvin ran a 4.32, and was so much more polished... the reality is that Benjamin is very much unpolished as a WR. He's dominated on raw size/power... and his gift for "going up and getting it". Steelers fans would probably erupt in fury because he definitely would not start right away. But I'm sure Mann would like to get his hands on him and mold him.

I think a good, recent, comparison from a development perspective is Alshon Jeffrey. He needed to be coached up, and molded... he was not "ready upon arrival", and neither will Benjamin be.

I agree with you and K-train on him being a gamble , but with what he has around him he wouldn't need to be a complete receiver his first year just beat that one man in front of you, which 9 out of 10 times will be a jumpball and grow in the system. I just think working with a guy like Cotch and seeing the work ethic of Brown would make this kid really good. I mean he's not blazing fast but he moves pretty well for 6'6 230. He does have lapses in concentration at times but that can be fixed in our locker room. I mean shoot me for it later but that might be one gamble i'd take. I haven't looked at a whole lot of receivers yet but that Allen at Penn st. is pretty good. I don't even mention guys like Watkins because it will never happen but him and Brown would just be unfair for the league lol.

K Train
01-09-2014, 05:34 PM
watch the browns get watkins and have gordon/watkins

WindyCityShaker
01-09-2014, 05:43 PM
watch the browns get watkins and have gordon/watkins

Gee thanks :nonod:

Get7With7
01-09-2014, 06:01 PM
You know, the Steelers do have a realistic chance of getting that big WR out of the 1st round. This draft has a lot of depth at QB, and a lot of the teams picking before the Steelers need one.

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 11:13 AM
I just get frustrated more and more, day after day with this love of a "big" WR. I don't really care what your size is, I care whether or not you can make plays, read coverages, get separation, YAC, if you can high point a ball awesome, I just don't want someone who can ONLY high-point a ball, not with a 1st round pick. While there has been talk of Ben wanting a "big" WR, and sure, what team wouldn't want one, it's just not a perfect fit for this offense, red-zone yes, but I don't want to become some kind of chuck and duck offense and turn Ben into Flacco where close is good enough. We have a guy with some size in Moye, draft Coleman later, hell resign Plax to a vet min if you want only a red-zone threat. If there's a dynamic playmaker there when we pick, whatever, I think there's going to be an opportunity to get some quality on defense, but I'm not going to argue the point. I just feel there is a world of difference between one dimensional guys, (speed or size), and better all-around options. /rant

K Train
01-10-2014, 11:22 AM
Big isnt really what i want in a WR, mostly because big WRs usually suck.

If benjamin or Evans can be the guy, then im ok with it....but i like watkins, moncrief, and lee the most...all are about 6-0/6-1

TarlsQtr
01-10-2014, 11:37 AM
I just get frustrated more and more, day after day with this love of a "big" WR. I don't really care what your size is, I care whether or not you can make plays, read coverages, get separation, YAC, if you can high point a ball awesome, I just don't want someone who can ONLY high-point a ball, not with a 1st round pick. While there has been talk of Ben wanting a "big" WR, and sure, what team wouldn't want one, it's just not a perfect fit for this offense, red-zone yes, but I don't want to become some kind of chuck and duck offense and turn Ben into Flacco where close is good enough. We have a guy with some size in Moye, draft Coleman later, hell resign Plax to a vet min if you want only a red-zone threat. If there's a dynamic playmaker there when we pick, whatever, I think there's going to be an opportunity to get some quality on defense, but I'm not going to argue the point. I just feel there is a world of difference between one dimensional guys, (speed or size), and better all-around options. /rant

I agree for the most part. There is no reason to reach for a big receiver who is one-dimensional early. You can probably get someone like Martavis Bryant in the mid rounds. Although not "big", I could not pass up Watkins in the first though.

I would have no problem with Ben doing the "chuck and duck" with a 6'4 or 6'5 Bryant against a 5'10 CB/S. That is a huge mismatch.

All of that said, we have done fine with small/average size guys. I think Ben's comments from when he was a younger QB have been overstated. I am sure he is fine with "small" AB over the "big" Limas Sweed. lol

K Train
01-10-2014, 11:39 AM
Someone like bryant brings nothing more than someone like justin brown or moye.

Benjamin still hasnt declared after getting a 1st round grade by the advisory board.....interesting

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 11:51 AM
I just get frustrated more and more, day after day with this love of a "big" WR. I don't really care what your size is, I care whether or not you can make plays, read coverages, get separation, YAC, if you can high point a ball awesome, I just don't want someone who can ONLY high-point a ball, not with a 1st round pick. While there has been talk of Ben wanting a "big" WR, and sure, what team wouldn't want one, it's just not a perfect fit for this offense, red-zone yes, but I don't want to become some kind of chuck and duck offense and turn Ben into Flacco where close is good enough. We have a guy with some size in Moye, draft Coleman later, hell resign Plax to a vet min if you want only a red-zone threat. If there's a dynamic playmaker there when we pick, whatever, I think there's going to be an opportunity to get some quality on defense, but I'm not going to argue the point. I just feel there is a world of difference between one dimensional guys, (speed or size), and better all-around options. /rant

well said

If "Big WR" is seen as solely a leaper/red zone threat... who will have a limited route tree, and then be limited by formation, etc... then do NOT draft him in the 1st round.

TarlsQtr
01-10-2014, 11:59 AM
Someone like bryant brings nothing more than someone like justin brown or moye.

Benjamin still hasnt declared after getting a 1st round grade by the advisory board.....interesting

Maybe same skill set, but much better at it, IMO. Especially Moye. If Moye played at Nebraska instead of Penn State, people here would not be so in love with him.

K Train
01-10-2014, 12:01 PM
Maybe same skill set, but much better at it, IMO. Especially Moye. If Moye played at Nebraska instead of Penn State, people here would not be so in love with him.
I dont see it with bryant.

I dont really see it with moye either...sooooo

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 12:17 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have even said anything, because I do want a big WR or TE, just not in the 1st. I'm probably just trying to convince myself the Steelers won't do it because I want to hit the defense 1st, and I'm on the Nix train with a couple of others. Of the top 12 scoring defenses this season, 9 made the playoffs; of the three teams that made the playoffs with poor(er) scoring defenses (Denver, Green Bay, Philly) 2 have already been eliminated. Obviously Denver is more than capable of overcoming their D. The Steelers are right at the average of scoring defense, and the offense is improving steadily. We're not as far away as it might appear, and while this is a fantastic draft for BPA, at some point we're going to have to plug some holes. Playmakers only, and if not, go defense.

Of course draft plans could easily change depending on what we do in the FA market, you know that thing the Steelers never explore....../sarcasm.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 12:34 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have even said anything, because I do want a big WR or TE, just not in the 1st. I'm probably just trying to convince myself the Steelers won't do it because I want to hit the defense 1st, and I'm on the Nix train with a couple of others. Of the top 12 scoring defenses this season, 9 made the playoffs; of the three teams that made the playoffs with poor(er) scoring defenses (Denver, Green Bay, Philly) 2 have already been eliminated. Obviously Denver is more than capable of overcoming their D. The Steelers are right at the average of scoring defense, and the offense is improving steadily. We're not as far away as it might appear, and while this is a fantastic draft for BPA, at some point we're going to have to plug some holes. Playmakers only, and if not, go defense.

Of course draft plans could easily change depending on what we do in the FA market, you know that thing the Steelers never explore....../sarcasm.

Nix definitely fills a need... i'm just not sold on the position making that much difference in the big picture. I'll use the Chris Hoke example... what was his record when Hamp was out? We were something like 15-2?

I agree we need to continue to rebuild the defense... but I'd rather get positions that make a bigger overall impact.

Unless we change schematically at the Nose (which we did not this year with McClendon)... it's hard to imagine a player like Nix making a whopping difference...

TarlsQtr
01-10-2014, 12:53 PM
Nix definitely fills a need... i'm just not sold on the position making that much difference in the big picture. I'll use the Chris Hoke example... what was his record when Hamp was out? We were something like 15-2?

I agree we need to continue to rebuild the defense... but I'd rather get positions that make a bigger overall impact.

Unless we change schematically at the Nose (which we did not this year with McClendon)... it's hard to imagine a player like Nix making a whopping difference...

And how many snaps would a NT play against, say Denver, NE, NO? 15-20? This is one reason I am more on Tuitt than Nix.

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 12:58 PM
Nix definitely fills a need... i'm just not sold on the position making that much difference in the big picture. I'll use the Chris Hoke example... what was his record when Hamp was out? We were something like 15-2?

I agree we need to continue to rebuild the defense... but I'd rather get positions that make a bigger overall impact.

Unless we change schematically at the Nose (which we did not this year with McClendon)... it's hard to imagine a player like Nix making a whopping difference...

I know what you're saying, but that would be like attributing all wins and losses to NT play. When we were 15-2 with Hoke we had other factors, Harrison at a high level, Woodley at a high level (when he wasn't hurt), younger, better versions of Troy, Keisel, Ike, and Farrior. For those reasons I agree, 1 player by himself isn't going to going to have a huge instant impact, but it's a really solid brick to start building on. I'm in favor of the schematic change as well, and maybe it's coming. It's interesting there's no official word yet on the old man. Who knows? Overall it's about about who's there when we pick, and what we do in the market.

K Train
01-10-2014, 12:59 PM
for what its worth nix is more than just a 1 or 2 down NT and would play a big role in increasing the pass rush overall, he would be especially important against a team like denver or GB

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 01:07 PM
And how many snaps would a NT play against, say Denver, NE, NO? 15-20? This is one reason I am more on Tuitt than Nix.

Put Nix next to Heyward, and then rush Worilds from the outside, yeah I want to see that! Also would help against those quick inside draws to a Moreno, which is just as lethal as their passing attack.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 01:32 PM
Like I said... I'm not against the move...

Question, how many of those top playoff defenses that mentioned, feature 1st round interior Dline?

K Train
01-10-2014, 01:35 PM
Benjamin officially going pro

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 01:47 PM
Benjamin officially going pro

Crap.

WindyCityShaker
01-10-2014, 01:53 PM
Like I said... I'm not against the move...

Question, how many of those top playoff defenses that mentioned, feature 1st round interior Dline?

I'm guessing not many, if any. Question, how many teams would spend a first round pick if they knew they could get a Vince Wilfork? No I'm not saying Nix will be as good, but that is his projection.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 02:49 PM
I'm guessing not many, if any. Question, how many teams would spend a first round pick if they knew they could get a Vince Wilfork? No I'm not saying Nix will be as good, but that is his projection.

From my position, it depends how many other holes they have... We are likely to head into the draft needing a starter at FS, ILB and DE.... And possibly CB and WR...

Nix is a luxury pick... And depending on who is available, it's a luxury pick I am open too.

Right now, I'm basically saying I'd prefer HaHa (FS), Dennard (CB), and Mosley (ILB)...
And the big risky WR.... If they are all gone we can talk about luxury picks at NT and OT

K Train
01-10-2014, 02:59 PM
I'm guessing not many, if any. Question, how many teams would spend a first round pick if they knew they could get a Vince Wilfork? No I'm not saying Nix will be as good, but that is his projection.

Thats why the chiefs took poe, and he was a great pick. Thats because he is disruptive, guys like raji and phil taylor are excellent NTs but not really disruptive difference makers. Nix to me falls somewhere in between. If he ends up being like wilfork or ngata or poe then it would be a huge win. But most of the time you dont get that type of athlete out of a big man

steelchamp204
01-10-2014, 10:04 PM
From my position, it depends how many other holes they have... We are likely to head into the draft needing a starter at FS, ILB and DE.... And possibly CB and WR...

Nix is a luxury pick... And depending on who is available, it's a luxury pick I am open too.

Right now, I'm basically saying I'd prefer HaHa (FS), Dennard (CB), and Mosley (ILB)...
And the big risky WR.... If they are all gone we can talk about luxury picks at NT and OT

This team has big holes everywhere on defense. The question is how many TRUE 3-4 NT are there in the draft without being a "project". I'm saying there are only 2 in Jernigan and Nix. Ferguson "can be" but he will need work.

The depth at CB is way deeper than the depth in the draft than at a 3-4 NT.

The depth at FS is short as well. I'm not going Dix though in the first. I think Dion Bailey would be a decent one in the later rounds, not sure where the kid from Washington will fall in the draft as well.

I like what I have seen from Vince Williams, I think this offseason will improve him greatly in pass protection. Remember, the Steelers pretty much had to force there hand to play Williams.

I can live with Willy Gay/Allen as the starting CBs this season, surely enough. Gay was a solid DB this season in all the league. Maybe pick up a Fuller/Colvin who seem to fit the system better in round 3-4 maybe.

This team can not live without taking someone like Nix/Tuitt in the first. This team will not survive offenses with Heyward the only one getting it done.

Al Woods hasnt really proved anything, Hood is nothing but a backup and McLendon is a backup as well.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 11:25 PM
I like what I have seen from Vince Williams, I think this offseason will improve him greatly in pass protection. Remember, the Steelers pretty much had to force there hand to play Williams.

that gave me a good laugh... Vince was the worst player on the field, every time he was on the field. There is absolutely nothing to indicate he will improve in defending the pass. He an interior gap plugger, run to the ball player who should be nothing more than depth.



This team can not live without taking someone like Nix/Tuitt in the first. This team will not survive offenses with Heyward the only one getting it done.

cool hyperbole

Real Deal Steel
01-10-2014, 11:32 PM
I think that it's funny that people don't place an urgency on the NT position. People complain over and over about how bad the pass rush is and how JJ isn't getting there.

Well, you put a dominant NT in there that will get a some push up the middle, one that the O-line may have to double team, then watch how effective JJ ,Heyward and Worilds will be.

I don't think NT is a luxury pick. A good NT is badly needed because it's not a coincidence that our pass rush left when we got average at the NT position.

Yeah..I'd love another DE too. But how long are we going to treat that NT position like it isn't that important?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2014, 11:50 PM
our pass rush left when Harrison blew up his back and Woodley's hammies became spaghetti

its always fun to read posts that indicate the author believes defensive schemes are magic

steelchamp204
01-11-2014, 05:31 AM
that gave me a good laugh... Vince was the worst player on the field, every time he was on the field. There is absolutely nothing to indicate he will improve in defending the pass. He an interior gap plugger, run to the ball player who should be nothing more than depth.




cool hyperbole

Sorry about the hyperbole. I know it was overboard, but I just don't like the dline as it is right now. Except for Heyward.

steelchamp204
01-11-2014, 05:41 AM
our pass rush left when Harrison blew up his back and Woodley's hammies became spaghetti

its always fun to read posts that indicate the author believes defensive schemes are magic

Just a question, are you content with Woods or McLendon at NT? I don't see us getting a NT through FA for a decent price to be honest.

I'm all for a guy like Mauro/Lynch in the later rounds for DE, but this team has no true NT, Woods isnt the guy either I believe.

Now, since Benjamin declared. I would be all over this for the first 2 rounds

1. Benjamin/Evans
2. Jernigan
3. Colvin/Fuller
4. Mauro
5. Lynch DE/OLB

NeilPatrickBanana
01-11-2014, 09:39 AM
Just a question, are you content with Woods or McLendon at NT? I don't see us getting a NT through FA for a decent price to be honest.

yes. "content" is exactly what i am.


I'm all for a guy like Mauro/Lynch in the later rounds for DE, but this team has no true NT, Woods isnt the guy either I believe.

the guys i am most interested in as a mid rounder (3rd-4th) is Deandre Coleman from Cal.


Now, since Benjamin declared. I would be all over this for the first 2 rounds

1. Benjamin/Evans
2. Jernigan
3. Colvin/Fuller
4. Mauro
5. Lynch DE/OLB

I'd be very happy with that draft. although i don't think Jernigan fits us schematically... and probably would not be much of an improvement over McClendon in the short term.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2014, 10:20 AM
If you draft a NT high in the draft then he better be a three down player....The days of just having a NT who is a two down player are OVER......

NeilPatrickBanana
01-11-2014, 02:56 PM
If you draft a NT high in the draft then he better be a three down player....The days of just having a NT who is a two down player are OVER......

I'm sure you thought that was true... but its not. For fun, we'll just look at playoff teams.

Gen Dorsey is the starting NT in San Fran, and plays about 60% of the snaps... he is a 2 down player... an a pretty good one.

Aubrayo Franklin is the starting NT in Indy, and he plays less than 50% of the snaps... he is a 2 down player

Casey Thomas is the starting NT in SD, and he plays less than 50% of the snaps... he is a 2 down player

Jelani Jenkins is the starting NT in NO, and he plays about 60%

Benny Logan is the starting NT in PHI, and he plays about 60%

Ryan Pickett is the starting NT in GB, and he plays about 50%

(for comparison... a DT who doesnt come off the field in passing situations, generally a 4-3 guy.... will play around 85% of the snaps)

the reality is... that most base 3-4 defenses, have starting NT who come off the field on 3rd down passing situations.

Your claim is entirely false, and unsubstantiated.

While their are freaks like Poe... it hardly means the days of a traditional gap occupying NT are over... the insinuation is totally absurd

JensK
01-11-2014, 03:11 PM
I think what he meant is that players strictly used for one role is getting rare. Guys like Hampton who only played running downs seldon get high draft marks. Sure, they dont play all the snaps, but at least they should be able to play in most of the packages.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-11-2014, 03:30 PM
I think what he meant is that players strictly used for one role is getting rare. Guys like Hampton who only played running downs seldon get high draft marks. Sure, they dont play all the snaps, but at least they should be able to play in most of the packages.

the guys i listed above are coming off the field in passing situations/packages
MOST 3/4 NTs don't take snaps in nickel/dime... his claim was demonstrably false
It's a misperception created by the RARE talents like Poe, who DO play all situations... but those rarities hardly mean the days of package specific/2 down NTs is "OVER"... because it clearly is not.

JensK
01-11-2014, 03:42 PM
I think that line of thought is something which primarily belongs in the past. Guys like Sue and Poe will surface more often as the various programs gets better at developing talents. I know this will be on my own shoulders, but guys, like those you mentioned, will become less valued over a given period of time. Its a natural progression of how good we've become at developing people, not only in the NFL, but in all sports.

Note that I'm not saying you are wrong per say, only that I truly believe those players will be less draftable in, lets say, 5 years time. Again, I have no evidence to present now, as I'm on my phone, so thats just personal opinions all the way.

Also, I dont see all of those players above as being in the same catagory as, lets say, Hampton. Most are more versatile than him, imo.

steelchamp204
01-11-2014, 03:48 PM
yes. "content" is exactly what i am.


the guys i am most interested in as a mid rounder (3rd-4th) is Deandre Coleman from Cal.



I'd be very happy with that draft. although i don't think Jernigan fits us schematically... and probably would not be much of an improvement over McClendon in the short term.

Can I ask why? Just wondering what your thoughts are based on. I'm sure FSU plays a ton of 3-4, well from what I have seen. I think he would need to add about 15-20lbs, but from a technique standpoint, he plays like a 3-4 NT.

Like I said, I am just asking. Remember, I'm new to this draft/evaluation process as I am learning from You/Train/BG and Big T.

K Train
01-13-2014, 07:24 AM
i dont get why people talk about hampton like he did nothing for the pass rush. I think NT is a need, but DE or OLB is still a more valuable position to take in round 1

Jernigan also is highly unlikely to be a 34 NT, that is not his game

NeilPatrickBanana
01-13-2014, 08:58 AM
Can I ask why? Just wondering what your thoughts are based on. I'm sure FSU plays a ton of 3-4, well from what I have seen. I think he would need to add about 15-20lbs, but from a technique standpoint, he plays like a 3-4 NT.

Like I said, I am just asking. Remember, I'm new to this draft/evaluation process as I am learning from You/Train/BG and Big T.

Jernigan's talent is as a gap attacker. He is quick off the snap. He uses his size(short) and strength, to gain an immediate advantage via leverage. Florida St plays a TON of Fire Zone schemes with Jernigan as a focal point of the attack. They do a lot of overloading. Either Jernigan gets double teamed, allowing someone else to get free. Or, he gets singled up and can generally win those matchups.

The problem is that the role of the Steelers NT, in a similar fire zone scheme, is not as a 1 gap penetrator. His job is to occupy 2 gaps. It requires being more stout, than quick. More anchor strength, than leverage. A different type of player.

Note 1 : Like Kimo Von Oelhoffen (who started at NT here), I don't think NT is the right, natural, spot of McClendon.
Note 2 : I wish I could believe that Lebeau would change schematically to the talent, and changes in the NFL... but I doubt he will.

K Train
01-13-2014, 09:18 AM
When did Kimo start at NT?

TarlsQtr
01-13-2014, 09:33 AM
When did Kimo start at NT?

His first season with us, 2000 (another one of those very good free agents we never sign). Casey was then drafted in 2001.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-13-2014, 09:33 AM
When did Kimo start at NT?

When he first got here in 2000, he immediately became the starting NT. Kevin Henry was the other starting DE opposite Aaron Smith.

Then we drafted Hampton, and in 2001 KVO moved to DE

TarlsQtr
01-13-2014, 09:35 AM
When he first got here in 2000, he immediately became the starting NT. Kevin Henry was the other starting DE opposite Aaron Smith.

Then we drafted Hampton, and in 2001 KVO moved to DE

Beat you. ;-)

NeilPatrickBanana
01-13-2014, 09:38 AM
Beat you. ;-)

Im getting really good at logging out, and re-posting with my alternate accounts, using slightly different verbiage to convey the same thing. 33 seconds is a new record.

it's a skill

LatrobePA
01-13-2014, 09:39 AM
Sammy will be the NFL's biggest bust, just wait and see!

NeilPatrickBanana
01-13-2014, 09:40 AM
Sammy will be the NFL's biggest bust, just wait and see!

I can't tell if you are joking... or if you are doing the "make grand counter mainstream statements so as to appear to have an informed opinion"

K Train
01-13-2014, 09:42 AM
His first season with us, 2000 (another one of those very good free agents we never sign). Casey was then drafted in 2001.

oh, well i was 11 so ill give myself a pass lol

LatrobePA
01-13-2014, 10:09 AM
I can't tell if you are joking... or if you are doing the "make grand counter mainstream statements so as to appear to have an informed opinion"

I was going "Crash" on your butts! LOL Happy Monday!

NeilPatrickBanana
01-13-2014, 10:27 AM
I was going "Crash" on your butts! LOL Happy Monday!

good, im relieved.

steelchamp204
01-15-2014, 05:34 AM
I don't want to see Benjamin go past 15 either. I remember last season when some wanted Cordarelle Patterson, but some were skeptical because it was only 1 season at Tennessee and he had a bad test which made him look idiotic. Not sure if we want to pass that up this season as he had a solid rookie campaign for the Vikes.

I can't pick and choose between Evans/Benjamin. I just think Evans will be a headcase in the league. I would just be happy with either/or.

coldrolled
01-15-2014, 06:53 AM
Keenan Allen sure helped SD get in the playoffs.

K Train
01-15-2014, 09:12 AM
I don't want to see Benjamin go past 15 either. I remember last season when some wanted Cordarelle Patterson, but some were skeptical because it was only 1 season at Tennessee and he had a bad test which made him look idiotic. Not sure if we want to pass that up this season as he had a solid rookie campaign for the Vikes.

I can't pick and choose between Evans/Benjamin. I just think Evans will be a headcase in the league. I would just be happy with either/or.
both patterson and allen were my favorite guys for a long time, even i got caught up in overanalyzing allen though.

I think you are drawing too hard of an opinion on evans because of the bowl game, that alone doesnt make him automatically headcase worthy

Real Deal Steel
01-15-2014, 09:40 AM
K,

I agree with you.

WindyCityShaker
01-15-2014, 12:48 PM
I don't want to see Benjamin go past 15 either. I remember last season when some wanted Cordarelle Patterson, but some were skeptical because it was only 1 season at Tennessee and he had a bad test which made him look idiotic. Not sure if we want to pass that up this season as he had a solid rookie campaign for the Vikes.

I can't pick and choose between Evans/Benjamin. I just think Evans will be a headcase in the league. I would just be happy with either/or.

I'm still looking for defense, no doubt about it, but if one were to put a gun to my head and say I had to pick between the two, I choose Evans.

Real Deal Steel
01-15-2014, 02:12 PM
Then see how you feel about this latest mock from CBS Sports:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

coldrolled
01-16-2014, 08:44 PM
Then see how you feel about this latest mock from CBS Sports:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

if ben goes with a new contract and hometown discount... he gets evans.

K Train
01-16-2014, 09:20 PM
I don't think Evans ends up a top 15 pick. Not totally sold yet

Real Deal Steel
01-16-2014, 10:03 PM
Really K???????

That Ravens WR corps is sad and at a red alert stage. They've got to give that bum (Flacco) better targets because he's not the type of QB that elevates his WR's. That's what real elite QB's do.

coldrolled
01-17-2014, 08:03 AM
I don't think Evans ends up a top 15 pick. Not totally sold yet

Ben gets a big target if not evans someone else with the height and speed..

K Train
01-17-2014, 08:22 AM
I just think its a bit premature to lock him into the top 15 or even the first round. He doesnt have long speed and he wasnt michael crabtree dominant at A&M he just happened to be the favorite target of manziel when **** broke down.

He will probably go in the first but i think he grades out as a second round guy, at least at this point. Him going to the ravens scares me about as much as eifert to the bengals.

Reach for a player like evans in the top 15 and you might end up with braylon edwards

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 09:12 AM
I just think its a bit premature to lock him into the top 15 or even the first round. He doesnt have long speed and he wasnt michael crabtree dominant at A&M he just happened to be the favorite target of manziel when **** broke down.

He will probably go in the first but i think he grades out as a second round guy, at least at this point. Him going to the ravens scares me about as much as eifert to the bengals.

Reach for a player like evans in the top 15 and you might end up with braylon edwards

I don't think it's a reach... I think he'd become a plug n play piece of the offense. Our Red Zone efficiency would be immediately improved. And our playbook/tree would be expanded.

We have a lot of holes on D... but adding a "final piece" to our young offense will have a bigger impact on next season.

Adding Evans to the team that went 6-2 to finish last year... probably puts us in the drivers seat for the division next year (assuming continued growth from the oline and running game)

As good of a Nose as I think Nix will be, or as good of a playmaker I think HaHa will be.... neither will impact the 2014 season the way a coverage changing WR will.

Evans/Benjamin might be reaches at 15... they might not... but regardless they are the type of player who will make immediate impacts IMO

You can create a lot of matchup nightmares with Brown, Wheaton, Cotchery, James/Benjamin.... you can get very creative with your route combinations.

Think about how bad Ben's sideline go route accuracy was this year... imagine if every time the split end got singled up in that situation... Ben simply being able to lob one up there. With Brown/Sanders he has to be pin point accurate (and he wasn't).... with James you just under throw it and let him get it.

Think about the coverage shells opponents always play against in the red zone.

I know... you and i wanted the monster Julio type (Watkins)... but a young Marques Colston/Vincent Jackson would yield a significant imapct as well...

With James/Benjamin... along with Brown and Cotchery (as well as hoping on Wheaton's development)... we'd soon have a top 5-8 WR core IMO.

Real Deal Steel
01-17-2014, 09:14 AM
Braylon Edwards had the talent. But he was a head case. If Evans has Braylon Edwards talent, I want him even more then.

K Train
01-17-2014, 09:27 AM
I don't think it's a reach... I think he'd become a plug n play piece of the offense. Our Red Zone efficiency would be immediately improved. And our playbook/tree would be expanded.

We have a lot of holes on D... but adding a "final piece" to our young offense will have a bigger impact on next season.

Adding Evans to the team that went 6-2 to finish last year... probably puts us in the drivers seat for the division next year (assuming continued growth from the oline and running game)

As good of a Nose as I think Nix will be, or as good of a playmaker I think HaHa will be.... neither will impact the 2014 season the way a coverage changing WR will.

Evans/Benjamin might be reaches at 15... they might not... but regardless they are the type of player who will make immediate impacts IMO

You can create a lot of matchup nightmares with Brown, Wheaton, Cotchery, James/Benjamin.... you can get very creative with your route combinations.

I understand what you are saying and i agree completely, im just not ready to pencil evans in that high this early in the process, i think hes one of the more overrated players at this stage. And like ive said about benjamin, I just need to watch more. If it were up to me i would take a WR in 1 and a TE in 2 or vice versa

Lee/Evans/Benjamin in one and ASJ/Troy Niklas in 2 or Amero/Ebron in 1 and Moncrief/Robinson in 2

Offense would be just delicious next season.

Then I would take Vinnie Sunseri later on, imo one of the most instinctive safeties in the draft (pending his injury checks out)


Braylon Edwards had the talent. But he was a head case. If Evans has Braylon Edwards talent, I want him even more then.

He was never that good as a pro, one year he came close to living up the hype of his draft status...one year

LatrobePA
01-17-2014, 09:35 AM
Let's talk after Indy!

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 09:49 AM
I wanted Cordarelle Patterson or Deandre Hopkins in the 1st round last year... instead we took Jarvis Jones who was a disappointment as a rookie. I STILL want a WR in the 1st this year.

Antonio Brown is a top 10 WR. A true #1. But the best passing offenses have multiple weapons, and the Steelers need a #1b. Sanders sucks, and is an UFA. Wheaton has potential, but it will be out of the slot. Cotchery NEEDS to be re-signed, but he's a slot/possession guy.

What the Steelers need is SIZE. Guys who can go up. Guys who can change coverages. Guys who can be red zone threats. etc

1. Sammy Watkins - Top 5
- You can go back to last year to view my pimping of Watkins. I think he's elite in every way. I hate making comparables because it just opens the opportunity for someone to nitpick at the trivial.... but... Watkins is a Julio Jones... he's going to come right into the league and make a difference. When the Steelers started the season 2-6, I was dealing with it by dreaming of Watkins... then we finished 6-2 and the dream was shattered.

So with Watkins out of the picture... how does it look?

2a. Kelvin Benjamin - Top 20
- Most have Benjamin as a 2nd round talent right now. But again, for me... the need pushes the value. He's got the size, and a lot more athleticism than James. But he's still raw... and he's already 23 yrs old.
Fear: Limited Versatility
Dream: Pro Bowler

2b. Mike Evans - Top 20
- Do you take the risk on a guy who benefited from being the "breakdown" target of the games best playmaking QB? The measurables fit everything you want. But the athletics beyond that are questionable. Evans makes electrifying plays, but lacks consistency, and also lacks refinement in his game.
Fear: 1 trick pony
Dream: Dominant TD producer



Evans vs Benjamin
It's real simple... Evans has to me a higher floor, but lower ceiling. And Benjamin is the opposite lower floor, but off the charts ceiling.

Right now... I want to take the risk on Benjamin.... just like I wanted to take the risk on Patterson last year.

or. Do we wait until the 2nd round?

I'm not interested in some good WRs like Lee and Cooks. I'm looking to build some diversity into our WR Core... and with Brown and Wheaton long term, another "small" WR isn't something im interested in.

The 3 other guys Im interested in... but not with the 15th pick...

4. Allen Robinson - 1st/2nd
- I think he's more polished, ready to play... with good strong upside. I don't think he'll last to our 2nd rounder... but we could probably trade down from our mid 1st to late 1st and still get him.

5. Jordan Matthews - 1st/2nd
- Is there much upside here? He lacks the speed you'd want out of the type of player he is. But, Allen was knocked for his lack of top end speed, and he's doing just fine... I think Allen is a good comparison here. He's not as polished as Allen was coming out, but he has the same college pedigree.

6. Davante Adams - 1st/2nd
- His numbers are just plain stupid. If we went in another direction with our 1st, he'd probably my 2nd round target.

K Train
01-17-2014, 09:58 AM
I dont know why you consistently call mike evans mike james lol

K Train
01-17-2014, 10:02 AM
As I watch Benjamin more and more im not gonna lie im intrigued. Hes a much better route runner than i originally noticed.

Patterson was a different kind of risky player and I still love him

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 10:13 AM
I dont know why you consistently call mike evans mike james lol

haha, yea i have no idea either

Real Deal Steel
01-17-2014, 10:49 AM
I dont know why you consistently call mike evans mike james lol

Stop having conversations with yourself. Do you want the men in the white jackets to come and get you?LOL

steelchamp204
01-17-2014, 10:57 AM
We need to get a offensive guy in the first. If we don't then we should draft Tuitt/Nix/Dennard/Mosley in that order. If we go offense, I stated I would be happy defense the rest of the draft.

My top 3 receivers.

1. Evans
2. Benjamin(depending on pro day/combine)
2B. Robinson

Real Deal Steel
01-17-2014, 11:44 AM
I seriously think that if they don't take Evans, then Colbert is going to take Nix. And I'm scared to death of Nix because he just had surgery on his knee.

WindyCityShaker
01-17-2014, 11:54 AM
I seriously think that if they don't take Evans, then Colbert is going to take Nix. And I'm scared to death of Nix because he just had surgery on his knee.

It's not a structural surgery, no acl/mcl, it's a meniscus, it's like having the roots of your teeth scaled.

TarlsQtr
01-17-2014, 12:04 PM
It's not a structural surgery, no acl/mcl, it's a meniscus, it's like having the roots of your teeth scaled.

Exactly. Most people do not even realize that Ben has had both knees done because it is not a big deal.

WindyCityShaker
01-17-2014, 12:06 PM
What the Steelers need is SIZE. Guys who can go up. Guys who can change coverages. Guys who can be red zone threats. etc

1. Sammy Watkins - Top 5
- You can go back to last year to view my pimping of Watkins. I think he's elite in every way. I hate making comparables because it just opens the opportunity for someone to nitpick at the trivial.... but... Watkins is a Julio Jones... he's going to come right into the league and make a difference. When the Steelers started the season 2-6, I was dealing with it by dreaming of Watkins... then we finished 6-2 and the dream was shattered.

So with Watkins out of the picture... how does it look?

or. Do we wait until the 2nd round?

I'm not interested in some good WRs like Lee and Cooks. I'm looking to build some diversity into our WR Core... and with Brown and Wheaton long term, another "small" WR isn't something im interested in.

The 3 other guys Im interested in... but not with the 15th pick...

4. Allen Robinson - 1st/2nd
- I think he's more polished, ready to play... with good strong upside. I don't think he'll last to our 2nd rounder... but we could probably trade down from our mid 1st to late 1st and still get him.

6. Davante Adams - 1st/2nd
- His numbers are just plain stupid. If we went in another direction with our 1st, he'd probably my 2nd round target.

I'm on record multiple times about wanting defense. I've most notably said Nix and still want him, but if we went Dix, Tuitt, or a corner I'm not going to jump off a bridge.

IF we're set on getting a receiver in the first, I much more prefer a more versatile/all-around talent, with Robinson being one of the best to me in that regard. IF we were approached with trading down say 8 spots or so AND I could get a 2nd round pick to do so, I would jump on it. I'd take Robinson and with our combination of (2) 2nd rounders we can be close to having the option of grabbing 2 of Tuitt and/or Roberson/Fuller & Reynolds/Pryor, maybe ASJ and someone like Dion James later....and to me that's a huge winner right there, multiple possibilities. This is just me but I feel a Evans/Benjamin selection in the 1st is so one dimensional.........just ugh.

If we went D in the first then I fully agree that Adams is a sweet back-up option.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2014, 12:41 PM
I still want Benjamin and really hope he is the pick......Evans would be fine as well......

If Sanders isn't resigned the WR is going to be a huge need.......Brown, Cotchery, Wheaton, Moye would be the top four with no Sanders.....We still have no idea if Wheaton is a player......

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 01:56 PM
I'm on record multiple times about wanting defense. I've most notably said Nix and still want him, but if we went Dix, Tuitt, or a corner I'm not going to jump off a bridge.

IF we're set on getting a receiver in the first, I much more prefer a more versatile/all-around talent, with Robinson being one of the best to me in that regard. IF we were approached with trading down say 8 spots or so AND I could get a 2nd round pick to do so, I would jump on it. I'd take Robinson and with our combination of (2) 2nd rounders we can be close to having the option of grabbing 2 of Tuitt and/or Roberson/Fuller & Reynolds/Pryor, maybe ASJ and someone like Dion James later....and to me that's a huge winner right there, multiple possibilities. This is just me but I feel a Evans/Benjamin selection in the 1st is so one dimensional.........just ugh.

If we went D in the first then I fully agree that Adams is a sweet back-up option.

I actually agree with the bolded in a sense... i just don't see it as a negative.

The team's that draft well these days, draft to build something specific. BPA is just a dumb *** way to do things in the modern NFL with such complex offenses/defenses.

I agree that their is a 1 dimensional aspect to Benjamin's game... and that 1 dimension would make out offense multi dimensional. And you HAVE to be multidimensional on offense to produce a lot of points. You can't just go out there week after week, doing the same thing.

you need to get versatile, multidimensional... you need to be able to go pound the **** out of your opponents weaknesses, which requires the ability to do different things on a weekly basis.

Right now, the Steelers have the ability to be a quality ball control offense, through a controlled passing game. And that's about the extent of it.

As their Running game evolves, we HOPE that would add another layer... but since Bell is more of a chain mover... it still keeps us in the ball park of a ball control, move the chains, 1st down offense.

We need to add a speed element out of the back field
We need to add Deep/Size Element on the outside
We need to add a inside seam element (TE or Wheaton)

Our defense is full of holes, and on decline... no doubt... but if we want to maximize ring opportunities in Ben's final 5-6 seasons... we need to up the ante on offense and add the proper weapons.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 01:57 PM
I still want Benjamin and really hope he is the pick......Evans would be fine as well......

If Sanders isn't resigned the WR is going to be a huge need.......Brown, Cotchery, Wheaton, Moye would be the top four with no Sanders.....We still have no idea if Wheaton is a player......

Cotchery is a free agent too

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2014, 02:01 PM
Cotchery is a free agent too

I think he will be resigned.....Sanders not so much.....

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 02:02 PM
I think he will be resigned.....Sanders not so much.....

i hope so. Cotchery was insanely valuable, and irreplaceable right now.

LatrobePA
01-17-2014, 02:19 PM
Rumors are the steelers will dabble in the FA market this year. We'll see!!

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 02:26 PM
Rumors are the steelers will dabble in the FA market this year. We'll see!!

There is such a huge free agent market this year, and the cap hasnt grown much in the last few years... it's going to be a market very favorable to "the steeler way", for 2nd and 3rd tier free agents

LatrobePA
01-17-2014, 02:27 PM
There is such a huge free agent market this year, and the cap hasnt grown much in the last few years... it's going to be a market very favorable to "the steeler way", for 2nd and 3rd tier free agents

I hope, this team has missed out in years past..

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 02:41 PM
I hope, this team has missed out in years past..

missed out on who?

coldrolled
01-17-2014, 03:41 PM
i hope so. Cotchery was insanely valuable, and irreplaceable right now.

I remember three years or so ago bitching about arians never using cotchery.. noone said a word then... he had great hands out of ny..

WindyCityShaker
01-17-2014, 03:58 PM
I actually agree with the bolded in a sense... i just don't see it as a negative.

The team's that draft well these days, draft to build something specific. BPA is just a dumb *** way to do things in the modern NFL with such complex offenses/defenses.

I agree that their is a 1 dimensional aspect to Benjamin's game... and that 1 dimension would make out offense multi dimensional. And you HAVE to be multidimensional on offense to produce a lot of points. You can't just go out there week after week, doing the same thing.

you need to get versatile, multidimensional... you need to be able to go pound the **** out of your opponents weaknesses, which requires the ability to do different things on a weekly basis.

Right now, the Steelers have the ability to be a quality ball control offense, through a controlled passing game. And that's about the extent of it.

As their Running game evolves, we HOPE that would add another layer... but since Bell is more of a chain mover... it still keeps us in the ball park of a ball control, move the chains, 1st down offense.

We need to add a speed element out of the back field
We need to add Deep/Size Element on the outside
We need to add a inside seam element (TE or Wheaton)

Our defense is full of holes, and on decline... no doubt... but if we want to maximize ring opportunities in Ben's final 5-6 seasons... we need to up the ante on offense and add the proper weapons.

And I agree with the bolded as well, in a sense. The reason that the Patriots are playing this Sunday and have had so much success throughout his tenure is (let's face it having Brady helped), but both Belichick's ability and intelligence to make adjustments and gameplan specifically to his opponent, not necessarily to his teams strengths.

To admit Benjamin is even fairly restricted on the things you can do with him only furthers my thoughts on why the pick should not be him. There aren't any other big WR's with even good hands that won't cost us a 1st? Coleman? Bryant? It has to be a big WR, can't be a TE with size? Trust me I get the need, i get it. What I don't get is why it has to be this ONE guy. If you're telling me that there's one mega-playmaker at WR (Watkins) fine, let's do this. But I'm not willing to crown someone the king because they're big. Compare them to a Megatron, or Moss, other receivers who brought more to the table than "being big". Hell AJ GReen is 6'4.

Trust me we can become multi-dimensional on offense, it's needed, but if we do so at the expense of the defense, we'll be relegated to having to solely out-score opponents, and let's face it, I'm not sure our defense is up to that task. Even with the additional weapons would our offense be able to outscore Denver?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 05:01 PM
And I agree with the bolded as well, in a sense. The reason that the Patriots are playing this Sunday and have had so much success throughout his tenure is (let's face it having Brady helped), but both Belichick's ability and intelligence to make adjustments and gameplan specifically to his opponent, not necessarily to his teams strengths.

To admit Benjamin is even fairly restricted on the things you can do with him only furthers my thoughts on why the pick should not be him. There aren't any other big WR's with even good hands that won't cost us a 1st? Coleman? Bryant? It has to be a big WR, can't be a TE with size? Trust me I get the need, i get it. What I don't get is why it has to be this ONE guy. If you're telling me that there's one mega-playmaker at WR (Watkins) fine, let's do this. But I'm not willing to crown someone the king because they're big. Compare them to a Megatron, or Moss, other receivers who brought more to the table than "being big". Hell AJ GReen is 6'4.

You're paying for the massive upside Benjamin represents... where as a Coleman/Montcrief/Bryant type would have a much lower ceiling, or a less likely chance of reaching the heights that Benjamin/Evans have the chance of reaching.

I don't like the term "restricted". Benjamin is unpolished. I don't think he's athletically restricted. I think he'll test very well at the combine and the question of his draft value will be ended.

As far as being 1 dimensional. Yes, you are going to use him to his strengths (immediately), to stretch the field vertically, change coverages, alter the red zone... all things he'll do through the dimension of his size/mismatch characteristics.



Trust me we can become multi-dimensional on offense, it's needed, but if we do so at the expense of the defense, we'll be relegated to having to solely out-score opponents, and let's face it, I'm not sure our defense is up to that task. Even with the additional weapons would our offense be able to outscore Denver?

The defense has young guys coming into their own (Heyward, Worrilds, Jarvis, Cortez), it's not like it's falling off a cliff... so more dead weight will be cleaned out this offseason... depth will be built...

We have a bunch of guys who haven't even started 16 pro games yet...

WindyCityShaker
01-17-2014, 05:14 PM
You're paying for the massive upside Benjamin represents... where as a Coleman/Montcrief/Bryant type would have a much lower ceiling, or a less likely chance of reaching the heights that Benjamin/Evans have the chance of reaching.

I don't like the term "restricted". Benjamin is unpolished. I don't think he's athletically restricted. I think he'll test very well at the combine and the question of his draft value will be ended.

As far as being 1 dimensional. Yes, you are going to use him to his strengths (immediately), to stretch the field vertically, change coverages, alter the red zone... all things he'll do through the dimension of his size/mismatch characteristics.




The defense has young guys coming into their own (Heyward, Worrilds, Jarvis, Cortez), it's not like it's falling off a cliff... so more dead weight will be cleaned out this offseason... depth will be built...

We have a bunch of guys who haven't even started 16 pro games yet...

Not athletically restricted, but he can't get open against top talent at the college level. Not saying he's terrible either, i just don't believe his ceiling warrants a no. 15 pick. If it happens I hope he proves me wrong.

We'll agree to disagree.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-17-2014, 06:29 PM
Not athletically restricted, but he can't get open against top talent at the college level. Not saying he's terrible either, i just don't believe his ceiling warrants a no. 15 pick. If it happens I hope he proves me wrong.

We'll agree to disagree.

His "1 dimension" is that he's always open. A 6'5" 230 lber with ups... Is never covered.

Steelcody36
01-17-2014, 09:53 PM
Watkins will go in the top 5-10 picks.

I was hoping he sucked in the bowl game so he would maybe fall to us, but he embarrassed my Buckeyes....

Real Deal Steel
01-18-2014, 02:27 PM
No doubt Watkins won't be there. Isn't any point in talking about Watkins..we will never have a chance at him.

ChucktownSteeler
01-18-2014, 02:45 PM
I am starting to think trade down and pick up another pick in the top 75 or so. Of course you have to have a willing partner to trade with.

We need help in many areas.

Real Deal Steel
01-18-2014, 10:40 PM
I am starting to think trade down and pick up another pick in the top 75 or so. Of course you have to have a willing partner to trade with.

We need help in many areas.

No...we need QUALITY in many areas. I'd rather stay where we are at and get a superior guy with elite talent. We need to dominate and to dominate we need dominating players.

coldrolled
01-19-2014, 08:55 AM
I am starting to think trade down and pick up another pick in the top 75 or so. Of course you have to have a willing partner to trade with.

We need help in many areas.

No Trading... We earned our #15 spot .. Get the BPA in the position we need,,,,

ChucktownSteeler
01-19-2014, 04:37 PM
No Trading... We earned our #15 spot .. Get the BPA in the position we need,,,,

No one player is going to turn this train around. I don't care who it is.

Real Deal Steel
01-30-2014, 06:38 PM
Speaking of dominant,

What do you guys think of Kalil Mack? Guy looks to be a tackling machine.

Big T
01-30-2014, 07:32 PM
Speaking of dominant,

What do you guys think of Kalil Mack? Guy looks to be a tackling machine.

He'd be a no-brainer if he was there. He won't be though. He's a monster.

Real Deal Steel
01-30-2014, 11:34 PM
Usually, someone who shouldn't falls down a little. And I could see it being this guy. Pairing him with JJ would be a scary thought and make our LB corps in the top 10 in the NFL. We had a little problem against the run last season. This guy could get us back to where we are accustomed to in stopping the run.