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Big T
01-03-2014, 03:52 PM
@rayfitt1: The Steelers have fired offensive line coach Jack Bicknell. Full release coming from Steelers soon.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 03:55 PM
@rayfitt1: The Steelers have fired offensive line coach Jack Bicknell. Full release coming from Steelers soon.

are you ****ing kidding me?????????????????????

what the ****???????

This is the dumbest thing ever....

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 03:56 PM
is this a joke? how can this possibly be real?

for what???? what did he get fired for? saving this season?

oh... ****... he got fired for screwing up our draft position by developing a pro bowl guard and turning a 7th rounder into a competent starter... and getting an off the street center to play immediately...


what the ****
?????

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 03:59 PM
Decastro blowing out pouncey's knee ended all the outside zone they spent all summer implementing... then they finally get things rolling in the 2nd half and they can the coach who finally had our running game and oline heading in the right direction...


****ing dumbest thing ever...

Big T
01-03-2014, 04:01 PM
I don't know. Strange.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:03 PM
DUMB DUMB DUMB

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:07 PM
Im terrified of how stupid the reasoning behind this must be...

"Decastro blew out Pouncey's knee executing a standard zone block... so we don't want to use zone blocking anymore"

Im so angry I could...

JensK
01-03-2014, 04:10 PM
So angry you can't make a single post about it.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:16 PM
He's smarter than everyone on this forum and everyone in the Steelers front office. How dare they make a move without first consulting with Banana Boy.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:20 PM
He's smarter than everyone on this forum and everyone in the Steelers front office. How dare they make a move without first consulting with Banana Boy.

youre more interested in discussing me, than the Steelers... as usual.

your comment insinuates that every time you've criticized the coaching staff, it means you think you are smarter than them

JensK
01-03-2014, 04:20 PM
Anyway, I agree so far as the move seems odd. He did very well seeing what type of players and constellations he had to work with. More info on this should be interesting.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:23 PM
I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY FRIED HIM!

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:23 PM
THIS IS SO STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:24 PM
WHAT DID HE DO WRONG??? IF ROETHLISBERGER COULD ACTUALLY PLAY QUARTERBACK THEN THE OLINE WOULD BE BETTER. HOW IS THAT BICKNELL'S FAULT??

Big T
01-03-2014, 04:25 PM
@rayfitt1: Jack Bicknell firing is not a surprise. Mike Adams regressed and Marcus Gilbert was up and down. Gilbert allowed 11 sacks and 30 QB hurries.

@rayfitt1: Difficult set of circumstances with Pouncey injury, but the team regressed statistically in the 1 yr. under Bicknell in rushing and pass pro

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:25 PM
31 SACKS IN THE FIRST HALF! THAT'S BECAUSE ROETHLISBERGER CAN'T THROW!

Get7With7
01-03-2014, 04:26 PM
Another questionable move with Art Rooney II as the team owner? COLOR ME SHOCKED!

Big T
01-03-2014, 04:26 PM
@rayfitt1: Adams and Gilbert were second-round picks. Tomlin has to hire a teacher who can coach fundamentals and get them better.

Big T
01-03-2014, 04:31 PM
@rayfitt1: RT @jimwexell: I do believe that Ben's historic half season of protection was due mainly to Ben.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:33 PM
Anyway, I agree so far as the move seems odd. He did very well seeing what type of players and constellations he had to work with. More info on this should be interesting.


@rayfitt1: Jack Bicknell firing is not a surprise. Mike Adams regressed and Marcus Gilbert was up and down. Gilbert allowed 11 sacks and 30 QB hurries.

@rayfitt1: Difficult set of circumstances with Pouncey injury, but the team regressed statistically in the 1 yr. under Bicknell in rushing and pass pro

It's odd to only frame the negative.

Pros
Decastro went from average to elite
Foster went from below average to average
Beachum went from swing backup to quality starter
Velasco went from off the street to quality starter
Wallace went from depth backup to quality starter

Pass Protection went from awful to damn good in the 2nd half
Running game went from non existent to average in the 2nd half
overall performance to finish the year was solid

cons
Adams developed never happened
Gilbert's play stagnated at best
overall performance to start the year was terrible

They statisticall regressed from year to year, but they statisticall improved over the course of this season, significantly improved in the 2nd half.

Young players + new scheme + significant injuries.... very odd firing

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:34 PM
Oh look, NYC wants to bring his boyfriend into the conversation... what a surprise

steelchamp204
01-03-2014, 04:36 PM
@rayfitt1: RT @jimwexell: I do believe that Ben's historic half season of protection was due mainly to Ben.

not all true.

Beachum and DD improved drastically this season.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:39 PM
@rayfitt1: RT @jimwexell: I do believe that Ben's historic half season of protection was due mainly to Ben.

I would agree, that Ben was the primary factor (i'd love to have a conversation discussing the nuance in which Haley has rebuilt Ben's game). But a young offensive line, getting the job done with a QB making more pre snap reads and having a quicker release... is a good thing.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:47 PM
It's odd to only frame the negative.

Pros
Decastro went from average to elite

Decastro was drafted as an elite player and didn't develop earlier due to injury.

Did you give the Colts QB coach credit for Andrew Luck's performance this season? Or do you pick and choose when to credit coaches or players depending on your own bias?


Foster went from below average to average
Beachum went from swing backup to quality starter

Perhaps all the other players on the offensive line simply benefited from the great play of a single player.


Velasco went from off the street to quality starter

Velasco had a good game the very first game he played. Why credit the offensive line coach who had virtually no time to coach him rather than crediting Velasco who was clearly playing his heart out for a contract? Because you're always right.


Wallace went from depth backup to quality starter

See the above reason for Beachum and Foster's play.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 04:51 PM
not all true.

Beachum and DD improved drastically this season.

Decastro played like the player he was drafted to be. Throw in Velasco's strong performance for a contract and you had a strong domino effect on the other linemen.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 04:52 PM
Decastro was drafted as an elite player and didn't develop earlier due to injury.

Did you give the Colts QB coach credit for Andrew Luck's performance this season? Or do you pick and choose when to credit coaches or players depending on your own bias?

you realize your argument makes zero sense in the context of your previous "Tomlin only wins with Cowher's players" context

Position coaches have an impact on development. is that even up for debate?

of course Decastro came to the table with elite tools. and the coaching staff put those tools to work, in developing his game.


Perhaps all the other players on the offensive line simply benefited from the great play of a single player.

Ii love the comments that make it clear you've been nowhere near a football field in your life.

This comment also contradicts your defense of Ben's poor play in the 1st half... which you blame on the play of those around him. Why didn't the offensive line benefit from his great play in the 1st half? (regardless of whether you are referring to Ben or Decastro here)



Velasco had a good game the very first game he played. Why credit the offensive line coach who had virtually no time to coach him rather than crediting Velasco who was clearly playing his heart out for a contract? Because you're always right.

Who do you think got Velasco ready? Velasco spent 5 straight days with Bicknell getting ready.

You've clearly never been in a locker room

^ check out my edit to insert witty insult!

K Train
01-03-2014, 04:56 PM
weird move.

I wonder if kubiak wants an oline coach position lol

coldrolled
01-03-2014, 05:01 PM
@rayfitt1: Adams and Gilbert were second-round picks. Tomlin has to hire a teacher who can coach fundamentals and get them better.

And not roll onto each other.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 05:01 PM
So, NYC....
1. When talented players like Decastro develop ... it's because they are talented
2. When average players like Foster and Beachum develop ... it's because they are reaping the benefits of talented players developing all by themselves
3. When average players jump immediately into the game and play well (Velasco).... it's because they work hard
4. but when talented players don't develop... fire the position coach, it's his fault!!!

lol who even needs position coaches? Apparently, their only impact is on the failures. lol

dumb

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 05:03 PM
you realize your argument makes zero sense in the context of your previous "Tomlin only wins with Cowher's players" context

Show me where I argued that "Tomlin only wins with Cowher's players." Stop misquoting me and making things up. You've gotten really bad with this.


Position coaches have an impact on development. is that even up for debate?

No, the amount of credit deserved is up for debate.


Ii love the comments that make it clear you've been nowhere near a football field in your life.

Who are you kidding, you pencil neck weasel? You've never sniffed anything other than a computer desk.


This comment also contradicts your defense of Ben's poor play in the 1st half... which you blame on the play of those around him. Why didn't the offensive line benefit from his great play in the 1st half? (regardless of whether you are referring to Ben or Decastro here)

There is only a contradiction when you continue to put words in my mouth. The entire team clearly sucked the first 4 games. Only an idiot would argue otherwise. Roethlisberger wasn't blameless, he was simply the least $hitty player.

Decastro kept getting better and better every game along with Velasco playing at a very high level and the entire offensive line improved as a result.



Who do you think got Velasco ready? Velasco spent 5 straight days with Bicknell getting ready.

LOL he got Velasco ready in 5 days but couldn't get Adams ready in how many days? You're an idiot.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 05:12 PM
So, NYC....
1. When talented players like Decastro develop ... it's because they are talented

For the most part. That's correct.


2. When average players like Foster and Beachum develop ... it's because they are reaping the benefits of talented players developing all by themselves

A football team is an engine. All parts must work in conjunction. Some parts are better than others and thus make all the other parts better as a result. You put a great big fat kid at anchor in tug of war, and it improves the entire group. It's not complicated.


3. When average players jump immediately into the game and play well (Velasco).... it's because they work hard

He was clearly playing for a contract. If you can't understand the effect that contract years have on players' performance, then you don't $hit.


4. but when talented players don't develop... fire the position coach, it's his fault!!!

Or they could just be a bust. No way of knowing unless you allow at least two coaches try, which isn't rare. If Luck had two bad seasons, would the Colts release Luck, or would they fire the head coach?


lol who even needs position coaches? Apparently, their only impact is on the failures. lol

More words in people's mouths? You might as well argue with yourself and just monopolize this entire board. Nevermind.


dumb

I'm sorry your wife likes to suck strange cxxk behind your back. That's not my fault.

Big T
01-03-2014, 05:21 PM
@EdBouchette: "@MEGABUCBUC: @EdBouchette any idea of the reasoning behind this decision?" ... Sometimes coaches are just not a good fit

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 05:21 PM
Show me where I argued that "Tomlin only wins with Cowher's players." Stop misquoting me and making things up. You've gotten really bad with this

HERE:

:banging: Tomlin brought this team to 2 superbowls in his first 4 years. Teams can have bad days or even bad seasons under good head coaches. Not everything is his fault.


That was Cowher's team. A giraffe could've coached that team. He was only able to put up 13 offensive points on the team that was 28th in the league in points allowed. If it wasn't for a heroic last-minute drive by the star quarterback he inherited and an amazing catch by a receiver he inherited, then he would have two Superbowl appearances and two losses with one of the best quarterbacks in the league.


Those first round losses to Jacksonville and Tebow were very successful. So was that year we didn't make the playoffs. And this team will definitely belong to Tomlin in only five years or so when Roethlisberger and the rest of Cowher's draft picks are long gone. I would really enjoy watching Tomlin coach this team without Roethlisberger. We would have a top 5 pick for at least five straight years.

http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/36302-What-exactly-does-Tomlin-bring-to-the-team?highlight=Cowher

AND HERE:


Just wondering if anyone can make a case for why Tomlin won last year for reasons other than inheriting Cowher's team, an All-Pro QB, and an amazing inherited defense?

http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/22995-Mike-Tomlin?highlight=Cowher

I bet you are pretty angry right now... and formulating your attack plan to destract.


No, the amount of credit deserved is up for debate.

you don't actually mean that it is "up for debate". What you really mean, is that it matters when it fits your preconceived argument, and it doesn't matter, when it doesn't fit. that's your M.O.


Who are you kidding, you pencil neck weasel? You've never sniffed anything other than a computer desk.

you need to believe that



There is only a contradiction when you continue to put words in my mouth. The entire team clearly sucked the first 4 games. Only an idiot would argue otherwise. Roethlisberger wasn't blameless, he was simply the least $hitty player.

he was one of the shittier players in the 1st half. 14 turnovers.


Decastro kept getting better and better every game along with Velasco playing at a very high level and the entire offensive line improved as a result.

of course, this is the scenario where the impact of coaching is "up for debate". And since you've penciled yourself into a corner, you now must argue that Bicknell had nothing to do with the improvement... which is fundamentally stupid.



LOL he got Velasco ready in 5 days but couldn't get Adams ready in how many days? You're an idiot.

is it really tough to comprehend that the OL coach was able to get a veteran ready to go quickly, and that same OL coach has struggled to develop a very raw talent?

edit : removed witty insult added bold lettering

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 05:35 PM
For the most part. That's correct.

So Cowher deserves zero credit for talent he left behind (Top talent picks like Ben, Hamp, Troy, Heath, etc). So we don't have to ever here you say, "Tomlin went to 2 super bowls with Cowhers team". Because Talent is Talent, and coaching has nothing to do with it.




A football team is an engine. All parts must work in conjunction. Some parts are better than others and thus make all the other parts better as a result. You put a great big fat kid at anchor in tug of war, and it improves the entire group. It's not complicated.

I'm sure that's how you would explain football to a 7 year old.



He was clearly playing for a contract. If you can't understand the effect that contract years have on players' performance, then you don't $hit.

This is ****ing stupid.


Or they could just be a bust. No way of knowing unless you allow at least two coaches try, which isn't rare. If Luck had two bad seasons, would the Colts release Luck, or would they fire the head coach?

Which is why you don't judge simply on the failures, by writing off all the successes as dependent on something else.

why do you keep bringing up Andrew Luck, in a discussion about Oline?



More words in people's mouths? You might as well argue with yourself and just monopolize this entire board. Nevermind.

What were Bicknell's impacts then? You've written off every positive into something you can arbitrarily point to instead. that's a tell tale sign of an agenda, and someone who does not have an objective viewpoint... but simply wants to tell their narrative.


I'm sorry your wife likes to suck strange cxxk behind your back. That's not my fault.

You account for 99% of the references to dick on this board...

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 05:39 PM
@rayfitt1: The Steelers have fired offensive line coach Jack Bicknell. Full release coming from Steelers soon.

Great. He needs to be fired. The proof is in the pudding..that's what the old folks say. Meaning that based on the play of the O-line the entire season, he wasn't doing a good job.

Next, who's in charge of the strength and conditioning of the O-linemen?

Alex Gibbs was out there for us to hire as the O-line coach and the FO didn't do it. Next time, when you switch to a new scheme (zone blocking) it would be advisiable to get the zone blocking guru teacher too..expecially when he's available to get. :rolleyes:

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 05:51 PM
HERE:






http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/36302-What-exactly-does-Tomlin-bring-to-the-team?highlight=Cowher

AND HERE:



http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/22995-Mike-Tomlin?highlight=Cowher

I bet you are pretty angry right now... and formulating your attack plan to destract.

Nowhere in any of those statements did I say what you said I said, which was
you realize your argument makes zero sense in the context of your previous "Tomlin only wins with Cowher's players" context

I never said "only." The argument is quite simple: Cowher could draft good players and Tomlin cannot. Tomlin can win with good players, but has yet to prove that he can consistently find them in the draft.

What's the point of trying to twist things around when the proof is archived? You only end up looking like the axxhole that everyone on here except for four other members thinks you are.


you need to believe that

I know that.


he was one of the shittier players in the 1st half. 14 turnovers.

Yes, all the fumbles were his fault and had nothing to do with an inept offensive line. Keep using fumbles to try and devalue Roethlisberger's season. Everyone already knows your agenda. Just come full out with it already. The forum will be a better place.

I said the amount of credit deserved by Bicknell (or any other coach) is up for debate. You can continue to twist and put words in my mouth. Everyone can clearly see you do it.

LASVEGASGUY
01-03-2014, 05:58 PM
Stupid move. I guess the only question we need to ask now is "what black OL coach will Tomlin bring in?"

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:02 PM
So Cowher deserves zero credit for talent he left behind (Top talent picks like Ben, Hamp, Troy, Heath, etc). So we don't have to ever here you say, "Tomlin went to 2 super bowls with Cowhers team". Because Talent is Talent, and coaching has nothing to do with it.

"Cowher's team" simply implies good players. The credit I give Cowher is finding good players and making not so good players fit into the system. Or taking a group of good players, but not great, and still winning with them. I give Cowher credit for the system he had in place which allowed average players or below average players like Stewart and Fuamatumafala to excel. I would give Cowher very little credit for top talent like Roethlisberger and Polamalu.

Once again, I never said coaching has "nothing" to do with it. I said the amount of credit varies depending on the player. Saying Decastro was developed by Bicknell is fxxking stupid.

What's the point of twisting my statements in order to argue them? You're that pathetically bored?


This is ****ing stupid.

That your wife sucks strange dxxk behind your back and takes your daughter with her? It's really not my problem and I don't want to discuss it.


why do you keep bringing up Andrew Luck, in a discussion about Oline?

Because you'll fully lather a player's nuts when you like him, but you'll spit on him and credit the coaches when you don't like him. Luck happens to be one of the nuts you like to lick, hence, that's why I keep bringing him up.


What were Bicknell's impacts then? You've written off every positive into something you can arbitrarily point to instead. that's a tell tale sign of an agenda, and someone who does not have an objective viewpoint... but simply wants to tell their narrative.

I'll tell you what Bicknell did next season.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:03 PM
Stupid move. I guess the only question we need to ask now is "what black OL coach will Tomlin bring in?"

8-8, someone had to go. That's just the way it goes. You can't bring back the entire coaching staff intact after an 8-8 season. Expect a couple more.

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 06:06 PM
Can't wait to see how this shakes out.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:08 PM
Nowhere in any of those statements did I say what you said I said, which was

I never said "only." The argument is quite simple: Cowher could draft good players and Tomlin cannot. Tomlin can win with good players, but has yet to prove that he can consistently find them in the draft.

Ok Captain Semantics.

It's funny how you retreat from your beliefs when you realize they make you look foolish






What's the point of trying to twist things around when the proof is archived? You only end up looking like the axxhole that everyone on here except for four other members thinks you are.


I get a couple PMs a week laughing about you...and the rest of team Real Dumb Stupid.



I know that.

It's good that you do.




Yes, all the fumbles were his fault and had nothing to do with an inept offensive line. Keep using fumbles to try and devalue Roethlisberger's season. Everyone already knows your agenda. Just come full out with it already. The forum will be a better place.

Wait... I thought the super talent of Decastro and the "i need a contract" efforts of Velasco, were rubbing off on everyone and using their magic powers to make the entire offensive line better... or did that only start after ben stopped fumbling?

Ben is an awesome QB who deserves to be under the microscope and criticized for failure.

You are too emotional to have anything objective to say on the matter, because you love Ben Roethlisberger, you want to kiss him. You defend him to the death, because you want to feel his warmth.


I said the amount of credit deserved by Bicknell (or any other coach) is up for debate. You can continue to twist and put words in my mouth. Everyone can clearly see you do it.

"I declare Bankruptcy!!"
...someone will get it.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:12 PM
8-8, someone had to go. That's just the way it goes. You can't bring back the entire coaching staff intact after an 8-8 season. Expect a couple more.

True. Maybe they should've started with the institutionalized staff on Defense... a unit that is trending downward... instead of a new Oline coach, whose players were trending upward.

Bicknell got fired for the failure to develop Adams/Gilbert.... while ignoring everything else he did with the oline, and the direction it was trending.

Meanwhile.... John Mitchell did **** with Ziggy Hood over 4 years, the play at NT was not up to Hamp's standards... but, he also developed Heyward, and got solid play out of Woods. Should he be fired for the Hood failure?

Butler's LBers have fallen off the face of the earth. Jones... didn't live up to expectations... and Woodley again fell of the wheel..

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:22 PM
Ok Captain Semantics.

It's funny how you retreat from your beliefs when you realize they make you look foolish

Only an axxhole or an idiot would think statements with and without the word "only" are semantics.


I get a couple PMs a week laughing about you...and the rest of team Real Dumb Stupid.

lol you mean you, Big T, K Train and your other accounts pm each other to talk about forum members? That's sad and feminine. I hope you exchange recipes as well.


Wait... I thought the super talent of Decastro and the "i need a contract" efforts of Velasco, were rubbing off on everyone and using their magic powers to make the entire offensive line better... or did that only start after ben stopped fumbling?

Ben is an awesome QB who deserves to be under the microscope and criticized for failure.

You are too emotional to have anything objective to say on the matter, because you love Ben Roethlisberger, you want to kiss him. You defend him to the death, because you want to feel his warmth.




"I declare Bankruptcy!!"
...someone will get it.

Like I said, everyone sees you do it. Don't you get how NO ONE on this board wants to bother arguing with you because of your antics? Even your fellow know it all K Train gets frustrated and just walks away from the conversation.

Tell me, did your wife kill herself?

Big T
01-03-2014, 06:22 PM
One of my favorite bits from the office lol


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hiCilTzhXrA

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:24 PM
True. Maybe they should've started with the institutionalized staff on Defense... a unit that is trending downward... instead of a new Oline coach, whose players were trending upward.

Bicknell got fired for the failure to develop Adams/Gilbert.... while ignoring everything else he did with the oline, and the direction it was trending.

Meanwhile.... John Mitchell did **** with Ziggy Hood over 4 years, the play at NT was not up to Hamp's standards... but, he also developed Heyward, and got solid play out of Woods. Should he be fired for the Hood failure?

Butler's LBers have fallen off the face of the earth. Jones... didn't live up to expectations... and Woodley again fell of the wheel..

Coaches on defense deserve to get fired, even LeBeau. I like him, but wouldn't mind to see a completely fresh face, preferably someone Tomlin selects.

The offensive line was not good enough given the talent. He deserved to go as well.

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 06:24 PM
Steelers' coordinators likely safe
Updated: January 3, 2014, 4:56 PM ET
By Scott Brown | ESPN.com

PITTSBURGH -- Steelers coach Mike Tomlin fired offensive line coach Jack Bicknell Jr. on Friday, but any other changes to his staff -- if there are any -- aren't expected to include offensive coordinator Todd Haley and defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau, a league source told ESPN.com.

LeBeau, 76, has said he wants to return in 2014, and Haley appears to be safe given the success of the Steelers offense in the second half of the season and particularly after it employed a no-huddle attack extensively.

Tomlin did not commit to either coordinator returning Monday when he held an end-of-season news conference, and he has full control over coaching personnel decisions, the source said.

The head coach sent some shock waves through Steelers headquarters Friday when he fired Bicknell after just one season.

Bicknell's replacement will be the fourth offensive line coach the Steelers have had since Tomlin took over in 2007. Bicknell, the source said, was stunned by his dismissal, which came after the offensive line showed significant improvement over the course of the season.

The Steelers allowed just seven sacks in their final seven games, and rookie running back Le'Veon Bell came on at the end of the season. Bell ran for 214 rushing yards in the final two games.

Pittsburgh, however, fielded one of the worst rushing attacks in the NFL, finishing tied for 27th with 86.4 yards per game. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was sacked 42 times, seventh most in the NFL.

The line endured constant shuffling because of injury and went through two centers, including Pro Bowler Maurkice Pouncey, who tore his ACL in the season opener. The loss of Pouncey caused the Steelers to scrap the zone-blocking scheme they had practiced extensively in the offseason and during training camp.

Bicknell previously coached the offensive line for the Chiefs (2012) and Giants (2009-11) before joining the Steelers. He replaced Sean Kugler, who left after the 2012 to become the head coach at UTEP, his alma mater.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:25 PM
One of my favorite bits from the office lol


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hiCilTzhXrA

That's so cute, Big T. You and Banana trade video clips in pms? That's really sweet.

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 06:26 PM
Coaches on defense deserve to get fired, even LeBeau. I like him, but wouldn't mind to see a completely fresh face, preferably someone Tomlin selects.

The offensive line was not good enough given the talent. He deserved to go as well.

That's why he got whacked!

Big T
01-03-2014, 06:29 PM
That's so cute, Big T. You and Banana trade video clips in pms? That's really sweet.

He made a reference that I'm familiar with because I'm a fan of the show. Not sure why I'm being brought into your little argument.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
Steelers' coordinators likely safe
Updated: January 3, 2014, 4:56 PM ET
By Scott Brown | ESPN.com

...Bicknell, the source said, was stunned by his dismissal, which came after the offensive line showed significant improvement over the course of the season.

This is funny. Every coach in the league should start out miserable in the first half and then turn it on in the second half, then they can claim they improved significantly over the course of the season.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
He made a reference that I'm familiar with because I'm a fan of the show. Not sure why I'm being brought into your little argument.

No, no. It's nice. I like it. I'm glad you make friends on here. It's important.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:32 PM
Coaches on defense deserve to get fired, even LeBeau. I like him, but wouldn't mind to see a completely fresh face, preferably someone Tomlin selects.

Dare i say it? it would probably make you mad... so i'll say it. lol
I totally agree


The offensive line was not good enough given the talent. He deserved to go as well.

Given all of the particulars... I think Bicknell did a pretty damn good job, and was implementing a system that fits. Starting over is a huge set back.

Of all the assistants, only firing Haley would've been dumber.

Tomlin did something stupid, and I'm calling him out for it... and you're defending Tomlin's decision... oh the irony.

note: i used the edit function to add a "D" to the very first sentence.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:33 PM
This is funny. Every coach in the league should start out miserable in the first half and then turn it on in the second half, then they can claim they improved significantly over the course of the season.

I'm pretty sure my immediate position on this topic, within this thread, gave you your position...

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:35 PM
One of my favorite bits from the office lol


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hiCilTzhXrA

I picture NYC as a 22 yr old, very angry, Michael Scott

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:36 PM
This is funny. Every coach in the league should start out miserable in the first half and then turn it on in the second half, then they can claim they improved significantly over the course of the season.

Which is pretty much exactly what your boyfriend did this year.

Big T
01-03-2014, 06:37 PM
Ian Rappaport on Twitter...

@RapSheet While I was flying... #Steelers fired OL coach Jack Bicknell, Jr. Obvious move. By mid-year, they'd stripped him of most on-field duties


Interesting. Though it is Rappaport so who knows lol

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:42 PM
I'm pretty sure my immediate position on this topic, within this thread, gave you your position...

That's absurd. The offensive line underperformed. They looked like garbage in preseason regardless of what you or others say about preseason being meaningless. Their poor play carried over into the regular season. I agree they got better, but it's my opinion that they got better because Decastro and Velasco were playing at a very high level, while Decastro seemed to improve every game.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:44 PM
Which is pretty much exactly what your boyfriend did this year.

He played poorly in the first 3 games. Hardly half a season.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:45 PM
Ian Rappaport on Twitter...

@RapSheet While I was flying... #Steelers fired OL coach Jack Bicknell, Jr. Obvious move. By mid-year, they'd stripped him of most on-field duties

lol that would explain the offensive line's improvement if true.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Only an axxhole or an idiot would think statements with and without the word "only" are semantics.

yea, kind of like when you said Bicknell spent, "virtually no time"



lol you mean you, Big T, K Train and your other accounts pm each other to talk about forum members? That's sad and feminine. I hope you exchange recipes as well.

nah it's not those guys, it's other regulars... the mods/contributors don't really care that much to laugh at you. they'd probably prefer that we just ignore you....but some of the other regulars do enjoy a good laugh.

Don't be upset, it's no different than when you, RDS, and the rest of team real dumb stupid start threads where you try and determine who should be put on ignore, and which accounts are actually duplicate accounts meant to deceive you, and who is a troll, and who is a ravens fan in disguise... you guys are silly children who do that crap in public and it drags the board down.

the adults just us PM each other to laugh our asses off at you.





Like I said, everyone sees you do it. Don't you get how NO ONE on this board wants to bother arguing with you because of your antics? Even your fellow know it all K Train gets frustrated and just walks away from the conversation.

Do you realize how much that makes you my bitch?

HUNT4SEVEN
01-03-2014, 06:48 PM
I didn't see this coming, they say inside the (Organization) that Bicknells role was diminishing the second half, so obviously they didn't use his system, they use the old system that was in place.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:49 PM
Do you realize how much that makes you my bitch?

lol you fantasize about me being your bxxch while I make your wife mine.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 06:50 PM
I didn't see this coming, they say inside the (Organization) that Bicknells role was diminishing the second half, so obviously they didn't use his system, they use the old system that was in place.

So basically everything that Banana was ranting and raving about Bicknell being responsible for, he actually had nothing to do with? That's funny.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Ian Rappaport on Twitter...

@RapSheet While I was flying... #Steelers fired OL coach Jack Bicknell, Jr. Obvious move. By mid-year, they'd stripped him of most on-field duties

Interesting. Though it is Rappaport so who knows lol

On field duties? what is he saying? way too vague.... either way I want to know, who WAS doing whatever it is he's saying they stripped.


lol that would explain the offensive line's improvement if true.

very interesting. I hope we get more information. that comment is very vague. Is on field duties referring simply to game day? Are they saying Bicknell was only working tape sessions and not involved on field for practice sessions, 7 on 7s, walk thrus?

Big T
01-03-2014, 06:51 PM
lol that would explain the offensive line's improvement if true.

Definitely a possibility if true

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:54 PM
So basically everything that Banana was ranting and raving about Bicknell being responsible for, he actually had nothing to do with? That's funny.

And with more information, I will gladly give the credit to the personnel who deserve it.

I don't go down with the ship, I take new information and allow it to continue to inform my opinions.

If Bicknell had very little or nothing to do with all the improvements I cited.... THAT'S GREAT!!! Thank god.

Unlike you, I don't make up stupid narratives like, "Velasco was playing for his contract and Decastro is just really talented... and poof, like magic the whole offensive line played better".

I'll be more than happy to learn that Bicknell's role was diminished, and the turnaround in the 2nd half had very little to nothing to do with him. THAT would be GREAT news. I'll be very happy to be wrong about Bicknell now that more information has come out.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:56 PM
lol you fantasize about me being your bxxch while I make your wife mine.

yea, but... I'm actually making you my bitch on this website...

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 06:56 PM
He played poorly in the first 3 games. Hardly half a season.

As long as his passer rating was good, he played a good game... right?

Big T
01-03-2014, 06:57 PM
On field duties? what is he saying? way too vague.... either way I want to know, who WAS doing whatever it is he's saying they stripped.



very interesting. I hope we get more information. that comment is very vague. Is on field duties referring simply to game day? Are they saying Bicknell was only working tape sessions and not involved on field for practice sessions, 7 on 7s, walk thrus?

Ya I hope someone elaborates on this

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 07:07 PM
Well, that seems to be the battle cry around here now: "Forget the first half of the season..that doesn't count! Only the second half of the season counts because we supposedly improved." LOL

I guess the games in the first half are not as important to them. Oh wait, I see the league DOES keep track of those too. LOL

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 07:08 PM
As long as his passer rating was good, he played a good game... right?

His passer rating wasn't great in every game after the 3rd game. Just look at the log. I'm looking at his completion percentage and his TDs versus INTs.

In all honesty, even the Bears game was not that bad. If I remember correctly, one of the INTs came in garbage time, which if that is the case, he had a pretty good game. But I may be wrong about the INT.

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 07:08 PM
So basically everything that Banana was ranting and raving about Bicknell being responsible for, he actually had nothing to do with? That's funny.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAA. He put his foot in his mouth and this article chopped it off! Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Real Deal Steel
01-03-2014, 07:10 PM
I didn't see this coming, they say inside the (Organization) that Bicknells role was diminishing the second half, so obviously they didn't use his system, they use the old system that was in place.

BOING!!! Thus..the dismissal. So Bicknells was really a failure at his job. I don't need any clarification. Speaks for itself.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 07:11 PM
And with more information, I will gladly give the credit to the personnel who deserve it.

I don't go down with the ship, I take new information and allow it to continue to inform my opinions.

If Bicknell had very little or nothing to do with all the improvements I cited.... THAT'S GREAT!!! Thank god.

Unlike you, I don't make up stupid narratives like, "Velasco was playing for his contract and Decastro is just really talented... and poof, like magic the whole offensive line played better".

I'll be more than happy to learn that Bicknell's role was diminished, and the turnaround in the 2nd half had very little to nothing to do with him. THAT would be GREAT news. I'll be very happy to be wrong about Bicknell now that more information has come out.

And I can care less who took over in the second half. I still give credit to the players. I'm not going to give an assistant coach credit for "developing" a top talent lineman. Decastro improved every game and Velasco was playing at a high level and the other lineman seemed to feed off of that.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 07:12 PM
yea, but... I'm actually making you my bitch on this website...

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

SCR
01-03-2014, 08:12 PM
You know why this place is whack? Half of every single thread is pointless arguing over semantics. Why, why oh why does it matter whether one person said something contradictory several months ago? Opinions change and, more to the point, few people care. I'm not here enough (obviously) to know why some things do or do not happen, but personal attacks are usually culled in virtually every other message board I've ever seen as well, whether through bannings, warnings, etc.

NYCsteelersfan
01-03-2014, 08:26 PM
You know why this place is whack? Half of every single thread is pointless arguing over semantics. Why, why oh why does it matter whether one person said something contradictory several months ago? Opinions change and, more to the point, few people care. I'm not here enough (obviously) to know why some things do or do not happen, but personal attacks are usually culled in virtually every other message board I've ever seen as well, whether through bannings, warnings, etc.

I agree with you. I've never had any problems on this forum before. There have always been personal attacks, but they were usually sporadic and limited. Now it seems certain members can't post something without other members targeting them in order to intentionally bring about an immature argument. I'm guilty of stooping to that level when engaged, but as long as the mods allow the instigators to run around and fxxk up every thread, then I have no problem engaging.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 08:38 PM
He's smarter than everyone on this forum and everyone in the Steelers front office. How dare they make a move without first consulting with Banana Boy.

First comment engaging me in this thread...

SCR
01-03-2014, 09:22 PM
I agree with you. I've never had any problems on this forum before. There have always been personal attacks, but they were usually sporadic and limited. Now it seems certain members can't post something without other members targeting them in order to intentionally bring about an immature argument. I'm guilty of stooping to that level when engaged, but as long as the mods allow the instigators to run around and fxxk up every thread, then I have no problem engaging.

I say this as a completely impartial observer. You do realize that you are one of the people that, if not instigating (which you seem to frequently) at least keep the dumb, petty arguments going, right? If whatever someone is saying is bothering you, just ignore it, b. If it's an issue of an argument like "Player X is better than player Y because" then lay out your case. If the facts/opinions based in facts are there, your argument is made and there is no reason to really continue it. Make your point and make it well and that's really all you should need to do.

You aren't the only one, so no don't accuse me of "attacking" you or whatever the hell. But sheesh you gotta chill yourself b.
i

Rocky#20
01-03-2014, 09:23 PM
Gerry Dulac is now reporting the same thing that Bicknell's role with the OL was greatly reduced after the Steelers 2-6 start. Dulac wasn't at all surprised at the firing considering most of Bicknell's coaching duties were stripped from him. I wonder who was filling in and coaching the OL during the last 8 games? Was it Haley?

SCR
01-03-2014, 09:24 PM
First comment engaging me in this thread...

I've been lurking long enough to realize that, while you will fight these petty, pointless arguments until the very bitter end, you seem to rarely be the one that starts it. Keep it going, make it worse? Yeah, maybe. But start it? It's not common.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 09:52 PM
I've been lurking long enough to realize that, while you will fight these petty, pointless arguments until the very bitter end, you seem to rarely be the one that starts it. Keep it going, make it worse? Yeah, maybe. But start it? It's not common.

I admit, that's a very accurate observation

TarlsQtr
01-03-2014, 10:10 PM
I agree with you. I've never had any problems on this forum before. There have always been personal attacks, but they were usually sporadic and limited. Now it seems certain members can't post something without other members targeting them in order to intentionally bring about an immature argument. I'm guilty of stooping to that level when engaged, but as long as the mods allow the instigators to run around and fxxk up every thread, then I have no problem engaging.

Yep everyone just picks on you and RDS. Here is a clue. When you run into an a$$hole, you just ran into an a$$hole. When you are running into them all day long, you are the a$$hole.

Dean Denton
01-03-2014, 10:13 PM
Whatever, this line has been crap for years. Go get Russ Grim back.

TarlsQtr
01-03-2014, 10:15 PM
Gerry Dulac is now reporting the same thing that Bicknell's role with the OL was greatly reduced after the Steelers 2-6 start. Dulac wasn't at all surprised at the firing considering most of Bicknell's coaching duties were stripped from him. I wonder who was filling in and coaching the OL during the last 8 games? Was it Haley?

Where was Dulac and the gang when we were 2-6 to report this? It reeks of they were given the company line and are reporting it like they always knew it.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 11:33 PM
Interesting article... claims first hand comments from players who deny the reports that Bicknell was removed from duties mid season...

http://blog.triblive.com/dejan-kovacevic/2014/01/03/firing-of-bicknell-looks-bad-but/

NeilPatrickBanana
01-03-2014, 11:40 PM
#Steelers</a> O-lineman, it’s “absolutely not” true that Jack Bicknell Jr. had any duties replaced or diminished at any point.</p>&mdash; Dejan Kovacevic (@Dejan_Kovacevic) <

interesting...
starting to sound like the front office is trying to pull another "arians retired"

NYCsteelersfan
01-04-2014, 07:56 AM
I say this as a completely impartial observer. You do realize that you are one of the people that, if not instigating (which you seem to frequently) at least keep the dumb, petty arguments going, right? If whatever someone is saying is bothering you, just ignore it, b. If it's an issue of an argument like "Player X is better than player Y because" then lay out your case. If the facts/opinions based in facts are there, your argument is made and there is no reason to really continue it. Make your point and make it well and that's really all you should need to do.

You aren't the only one, so no don't accuse me of "attacking" you or whatever the hell. But sheesh you gotta chill yourself b.
i

You lay out your case and it's followed up by "you don't know how to analyze the stats. Total QBR says passer rating is wrong. You're cherry picing. You're an idiot."

You have members like Banana, Tarlqtr (probably the biggest piece of garbage on here), and K Train who insult members' intelligence with arguments that can be summarized as "your opinion is wrong and you're stupid because my opinion is right." I've seen members like Dean Denton who never personally attacks anyone get called stupid by these guys for his honest opinion. In my book, an insult is an insult. Whether it's subtle or seems more PG, an insult is an insult. Walking up to a stranger in the streets and saying "what you just said is the dumbest thing I ever heard" is likely to bring about the same reaction as walking up to them and saying "your mother is a whore."

I am guilty of continuing it like you said. I won't even argue that. I've attmpted to walk away from those members in the past. I do myself a favor and completely ignore Tarlqtr and I don't even have him on ignore. I just ignore his pathetically bitter old man garbage. Maybe eventually I'll just ignore the others as well.

HumanPudding
01-04-2014, 10:09 AM
Rabble Rabble Rabble

NYCsteelersfan
01-04-2014, 10:31 AM
Rabble Rabble Rabble

You've been slacking.

TarlsQtr
01-04-2014, 11:59 AM
LOL, please show examples of me calling Dean stupid.

I have called you and RDS stupid because, frankly, you are. You are the only person I have ever seen who will argue with me for days and then articulate my very position when you discuss it with someone else a week later. You only began arguing with me because you thought/think I am Neil. (I said Ben was not playing well in the first half season and you thought I was Neil, so you defended Ben like you were his nut lice. A week later, you told someone else that Ben was not playing very well.)

I love when people who throw out more insults than anyone get all butthurt.

Real Deal Steel
01-04-2014, 04:30 PM
You lay out your case and it's followed up by "you don't know how to analyze the stats. Total QBR says passer rating is wrong. You're cherry picing. You're an idiot."

You have members like Banana, Tarlqtr (probably the biggest piece of garbage on here), and K Train who insult members' intelligence with arguments that can be summarized as "your opinion is wrong and you're stupid because my opinion is right." I've seen members like Dean Denton who never personally attacks anyone get called stupid by these guys for his honest opinion. In my book, an insult is an insult. Whether it's subtle or seems more PG, an insult is an insult. Walking up to a stranger in the streets and saying "what you just said is the dumbest thing I ever heard" is likely to bring about the same reaction as walking up to them and saying "your mother is a whore."

I am guilty of continuing it like you said. I won't even argue that. I've attmpted to walk away from those members in the past. I do myself a favor and completely ignore Tarlqtr and I don't even have him on ignore. I just ignore his pathetically bitter old man garbage. Maybe eventually I'll just ignore the others as well.

NYC, just put the appropriate posters on ignore. Make things simple. That's what it's for.

coldrolled
01-04-2014, 05:00 PM
Whatever guys... Was the OL coach set aside for real after week 8?

huntem
01-04-2014, 05:37 PM
This was a good move. Their line is not playing to their potential. Decastro was gonna get better no matter what. He should be an elite player. Gilbert has been okay even without minor injuries. Adams has in no way shown that he is living up to his potential. Sure Velasco played well but you can't give bicknell all the credit because he didn't even work with him in training camp and Beachum has shown that he can play over his head even before bicknell. Id like to see a coach that can get this talented line playing to its potential

HumanPudding
01-04-2014, 06:12 PM
I've been in europe, life got in the way

muncher
01-06-2014, 02:39 PM
@EdBouchette: "@MEGABUCBUC: @EdBouchette any idea of the reasoning behind this decision?" ... Sometimes coaches are just not a good fit

AKA.......tomlin needs a scapegoat

WindyCityShaker
01-06-2014, 04:16 PM
So they could have just come out and said he wasn't great at player development, which with a lot of young linemen, is what we need most. Interesting that's not how they said it, the whole "removal from duties" line is probably more damaging to Bick's future prospects. Overall we weren't too far down the rabbit hole of Bick's involvement so I'm not heart-broken if this is the case.

I would think would cement the probability that we not make any significant draft moves concerning the OLine, more of let's give someone else a chance to work with what we've got.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 04:20 PM
Any idea of who will be his replacement, I have no clue on position coaches at all.

K Train
01-06-2014, 04:30 PM
I have a feeling it will be Tunch

Real Deal Steel
01-06-2014, 04:35 PM
Again,

Alex Gibbs is serving as a consultant for the Broncos. We can hire him away from the Broncos by giving him an official title of O-line coach. That would allow us to swipe him away from the Broncos.

We are running a zone blocking scheme, we might as well get the best at it.

TarlsQtr
01-06-2014, 04:35 PM
I have a feeling it will be Tunch

Curious. Just a hunch or have you heard something? Seems kind of late in life for the old Turk to get started in coaching.

I would not mind seeing Grimm (who is available) but he would rather eat his own kidney than come back here. Position coaches are tough to predict because they could choose one from almost anywhere. It could even be an OL coach or OC in college who wants to jump to the pros.

K Train
01-06-2014, 04:44 PM
Curious. Just a hunch or have you heard something? Seems kind of late in life for the old Turk to get started in coaching.

I would not mind seeing Grimm (who is available) but he would rather eat his own kidney than come back here. Position coaches are tough to predict because they could choose one from almost anywhere. It could even be an OL coach or OC in college who wants to jump to the pros.
There were rumblings last year, could be wrong though...he has some sort of strength program for linemen, there were just some rumblings of him being added to the staff last season.

My top "out of nowhere" choices would be Bill Bedenbaugh or Mike Bloomgren.....Oklahoma and Stanford Oline coaches. Grimm would NEVER take that job lol

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 04:54 PM
I have a feeling it will be Tunch

NO TUNCH BELONGS IN THE BOOTH. He is a great game caller lmfao

Black@Gold Forever32
01-06-2014, 04:56 PM
I would be fine with Tunch........But they're looking at Ray Brown from Carolina.....Whoever they hire as OL coach just stick with a damn coach and scheme.....

Big T
01-06-2014, 06:01 PM
Bouchette has also thrown Tunch's name out there a few times in recent years. He's been like a "guest coach" before in training camp if I remember correctly.

Big T
01-06-2014, 06:14 PM
The Steelers’ decision to fire offensive line coach Jack Bicknell after just one season might come as a surprise because of the steady improvement of the offensive line in the second half of the year.

However, the move is not surprising because Bicknell’s role slowly diminished after the Steelers had problems protecting Ben Roethlisberger and running the football in the first half of the season.

In fact, for most of the second half of the season, offensive assistant Shaun Sarrett was doing a lot of the instruction and daily handling of the offensive line – duties normally performed by the offensive line coach.

What’s more, it did not help Bicknell’s cause that the outside zone blocking schemes that were to be a large part of the team’s revamped running scheme were non-existent once the regular season began.

Curiously, the offensive line improved as the season wore on.

After allowing 36 sacks in the first nine games, the Steelers allowed just seven in the final seven games. And the running game that averaged just 3.4 yards in the first 11 games averaged 4.1 yards in the final five games.

But the Steelers apparently believed that Bicknell was not the reason for the improvement.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/01/03/Antonio-Brown-named-second-team-All-Pro/stories/201401030005

ChucktownSteeler
01-06-2014, 06:24 PM
I hope we hire a coach that can develop young players and condition them.

steelchamp204
01-06-2014, 07:23 PM
Then make Sarret the coach.

TarlsQtr
01-10-2014, 09:43 AM
Then make Sarret the coach.

You may get your wish. The interesting thing is that he has never been an OL coach, other than at a high school where he also coached the DL. I wish the Burgh media had done some actual reporting on this throughout the season.


The Steelers wasted little time after the season firing offensive line coach Jack Bicknell Jr. Now they might be wasting little time hiring his replacement.

The process of finding a new offensive line coach – the fourth in Mike Tomlin’s seven years – began today when offensive assistant Shaun Sarrett interviewed for the position. And the search might end right there, too.

Sarrett spent most of the second half of the season working with the offensive line when Tomlin became disenchanted with Bicknell and how the offensive line was performing. When the line improved in the second half of the season, allowing just seven sacks and averaging 4.1 yards per rush in the final seven games, much of the credit was given to Sarrett. That led to Bicknell being fired immediately after just one season on the job.

Meantime, Tomlin still has not had individual meetings with his coaching staff, which still could lose another assistant or two. http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/01/09/Steelers-interview-offensive-assistant-Sarrett-for-O-line-coach/stories/201401090006