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View Full Version : Do NOT blame the offense!



Go 'Lers
12-26-2013, 01:11 PM
If things don't go our way Sunday and the teams we need to win fail and we don't get to the playoffs I will not listen to any blame put on the offense, only constructive criticism.

Okay, FINE...the offense was slow in the beginning but injuries to the o-line and Hailey calling the plays instead of Ben hurt us. We fixed the problem! Hailey will 100% return with Ben calling the plays in the trenches and the offense is in great shape. period.

So say it with me...

It was the DEFENSE that lost us too many games this year! You can carp all you want about Ben's last minute fumble in London or Antonio Brown stepping out of bounds at the end of the Dolphins game (like it was all on him to save us that Sunday against and team that hadn't score over 30 points all year). The fact is I have all the confidence in the world in the offense next year. The defense is another story.

We need to make small, surgical-like changes to this defense because a Super Bowl caliber offense only has a limited window of greatness. If we want more trophies we have got to make these changes ASAP.

steelspikes
12-26-2013, 02:55 PM
Well, you're right; offense seems to be on right track. Unless there are entrenched Haley haters, your fears of criticism may not be warranted.

Get7With7
12-26-2013, 02:59 PM
Many of the problems on defense stem from upper management trying to squeeze more years out of the guys from the 2008 defense that were simply past their primes. Letting Keenan Lewis walk to keep Ike Taylor has to go down as one of the DUMBEST moves Steelers management has made in the modern era.

If it were up to me, next year the only two guys from the 2008 defense that would be on the 2014 roster would be Timmons and Polamalu. Woodley is fat and always hurt, Ike pretty close to being washed up, Clark is washed up and is a complete asshat, and Keisel, one of the classiest players in all the NFL, might just not have enough gas left in the tank for another year.

Don't expect a great defense in 2014. The days of the Steelers grinding out low-scoring wins consistently are over (of course given how the rules of the modern NFL are bent towards offenses, those days were over anyways). Time for the rebuild on defense.

While the offense doesn't hold as much blame as the defense, it still isn't blameless. It took Todd Haley far too long to realize this offense is at it's best in the no-huddle. Considering that and all of Haley's off-the-field issues, I'd fire him and promote someone from the offensive coaching staff to be OC. Either Fichtner or Wilson. That way the offense wouldn't have to "start over," and the Steelers would have someone with no ego as the OC.

Blitzburghpete
12-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Many of the problems on defense stem from upper management trying to squeeze more years out of the guys from the 2008 defense that were simply past their primes. Letting Keenan Lewis walk to keep Ike Taylor has to go down as one of the DUMBEST moves Steelers management has made in the modern era.


While the offense doesn't hold as much blame as the defense, it still isn't blameless. It took Todd Haley far too long to realize this offense is at it's best in the no-huddle. Considering that and all of Haley's off-the-field issues, I'd fire him and promote someone from the offensive coaching staff to be OC. Either Fichtner or Wilson. That way the offense wouldn't have to "start over," and the Steelers would have someone with no ego as the OC.

i agree with these 2 paragraphs.

Defence wise, Keenan Lewis WAS the answer at CB. That oains me to say it as i love Ike, but i'd have rather paid the money to Keenan than Ike.

Offence i do think has to take a lot of the blame i'm afraid. How many "bubble" screens did we see the first four games when we lost. It wasn't rocket science and it was EASY for defencive co-oridnators to plan for it. Very few throws by ben were vertical. Most were laterals. Agree we needed Ben to get the ball out quick with our swing door offencive line early on, but bunch formation and then motion a forth player in behind the bunch.. why not just shout out, " we're running a bubble screen "

Week one's loss IMO was down to the fact Pouncy got hurt and the offence just stayed in the stunned state for the rest of the game.

coldrolled
12-26-2013, 03:38 PM
i agree with these 2 paragraphs.

Defence wise, Keenan Lewis WAS the answer at CB. That oains me to say it as i love Ike, but i'd have rather paid the money to Keenan than Ike.

Offence i do think has to take a lot of the blame i'm afraid. How many "bubble" screens did we see the first four games when we lost. It wasn't rocket science and it was EASY for defencive co-oridnators to plan for it. Very few throws by ben were vertical. Most were laterals. Agree we needed Ben to get the ball out quick with our swing door offencive line early on, but bunch formation and then motion a forth player in behind the bunch.. why not just shout out, " we're running a bubble screen "

Week one's loss IMO was down to the fact Pouncy got hurt and the offence just stayed in the stunned state for the rest of the game.

Our Defense makes any QB look like a HOF QB, we need major repairs to the D, Ben's Offense scored points to win most games. Haley didn't make Ben pass like crap the first 4 games either.

Look at the Ravens record with a crappy O. They win games with 6 field goals.. D wins.. see our 22-20 loss. Our defense needs an overhaul...

steelchamp204
12-26-2013, 04:22 PM
I have stated for the majority I want to go defense first 2 rounds of the draft. NT/CB or vise versa

ChucktownSteeler
12-26-2013, 04:30 PM
The offense is on track, however the 0-4 start pretty much doomed the team.

Real Deal Steel
12-26-2013, 05:08 PM
I have stated for the majority I want to go defense first 2 rounds of the draft. NT/CB or vise versa

Your right. We've been needing a for real dominant nose tackle. We've got to get back to domination on the line. And I've given up on Colbert ever seriously addressing the CB position. And even if he does, he's just going to make him give the opposing WR a ten yard cushion every down anyway. :rolleyes:

TarlsQtr
12-26-2013, 05:12 PM
If things don't go our way Sunday and the teams we need to win fail and we don't get to the playoffs I will not listen to any blame put on the offense, only constructive criticism.

Okay, FINE...the offense was slow in the beginning but injuries to the o-line and Hailey calling the plays instead of Ben hurt us. We fixed the problem! Hailey will 100% return with Ben calling the plays in the trenches and the offense is in great shape. period.

So say it with me...

It was the DEFENSE that lost us too many games this year! You can carp all you want about Ben's last minute fumble in London or Antonio Brown stepping out of bounds at the end of the Dolphins game (like it was all on him to save us that Sunday against and team that hadn't score over 30 points all year). The fact is I have all the confidence in the world in the offense next year. The defense is another story.

We need to make small, surgical-like changes to this defense because a Super Bowl caliber offense only has a limited window of greatness. If we want more trophies we have got to make these changes ASAP.

LOL We have come a long way from "Haley turned Ben into Trent Dilfer" and "those damn screen passes."

That said, giving the O a reprieve for their play is ill-conceived. They struggled at times this season (especially early) and even now are not playing as great as it looks at first blush. How many points were scored directly (or gift-wrapped) by the ST or D against say, Green Bay and Cincy? Both units are improved and the O has shown greater improvement than the D, but why exonerate the O for 9 points against TN (2 of them by the ST), or the first Cincy game (giving up 20 in Cincy is very respectable), or even the Raiders?

There is a lot of blame to go around.

TarlsQtr
12-26-2013, 05:13 PM
Your right. We've been needing a for real dominant nose tackle. We've got to get back to domination on the line. And I've given up on Colbert ever seriously addressing the CB position. And even if he does, he's just going to make him give the opposing WR a ten yard cushion every down anyway. :rolleyes:

Colbert does not dictate "cushion" given to the WR.

TarlsQtr
12-26-2013, 05:20 PM
While the offense doesn't hold as much blame as the defense, it still isn't blameless. It took Todd Haley far too long to realize this offense is at it's best in the no-huddle. Considering that and all of Haley's off-the-field issues, I'd fire him and promote someone from the offensive coaching staff to be OC. Either Fichtner or Wilson. That way the offense wouldn't have to "start over," and the Steelers would have someone with no ego as the OC.

Sure, let's make our HoF QB learn another O and do away with his guy. Let it go. The O is much improved. Even Ben likes him and wants him to stay. You lost this one.

Nolrog
12-26-2013, 06:06 PM
The defense has been a problem for 3 years now. In games like Oakland (er, LA? Oakland? Where the F do they play now?) Anyway, in games like the one against the Raiders last year, the offense gave them a late lead (31-21 after 3). The offense didn't help out by turning the ball over once, and not holding the ball long, but the D gave up an 11 play 80 yard drive for a TD, a 9 play 50 yard drive for a FG to tie and a 9 play 49 yard drive (in 1:43) for the game losing FG.

coldrolled
12-26-2013, 06:18 PM
The defense has been a problem for 3 years now. In games like Oakland (er, LA? Oakland? Where the F do they play now?) Anyway, in games like the one against the Raiders last year, the offense gave them a late lead (31-21 after 3). The offense didn't help out by turning the ball over once, and not holding the ball long, but the D gave up an 11 play 80 yard drive for a TD, a 9 play 50 yard drive for a FG to tie and a 9 play 49 yard drive (in 1:43) for the game losing FG.

I think the QB sneak by Pryor was 98 yards for a TD also.

Ill put money on the fact that all of our sacks, pressures and turnovers are created on the times our defense actually presses the receivers at the LOS.. We should be pressing 80% of the time not 10% with the 10 yard cushion.

teeceemadison
12-26-2013, 07:36 PM
I think the QB sneak by Pryor was 98 yards for a TD also.

Ill put money on the fact that all of our sacks, pressures and turnovers are created on the times our defense actually presses the receivers at the LOS.. We should be pressing 80% of the time not 10% with the 10 yard cushion.

exactly...PRESS COVERAGE

Get7With7
12-26-2013, 07:56 PM
Sure, let's make our HoF QB learn another O and do away with his guy. Let it go. The O is much improved. Even Ben likes him and wants him to stay. You lost this one.

Did you bother to read everything I wrote or is this just a knee jerk reaction? I said they should promote one of Fichtner or Wilson so they wouldn't have to start over. Sheesh, read the whole thing before you make yourself look silly.

Get7With7
12-26-2013, 07:58 PM
Our Defense makes any QB look like a HOF QB, we need major repairs to the D, Ben's Offense scored points to win most games. Haley didn't make Ben pass like crap the first 4 games either.

Look at the Ravens record with a crappy O. They win games with 6 field goals.. D wins.. see our 22-20 loss. Our defense needs an overhaul...

Haley didn't exactly put the offense in position to succeed either.

TarlsQtr
12-26-2013, 09:45 PM
Did you bother to read everything I wrote or is this just a knee jerk reaction? I said they should promote one of Fichtner or Wilson so they wouldn't have to start over. Sheesh, read the whole thing before you make yourself look silly.

So you think that Fichtner or Wilson will have the same offense as Haley and I am silly?

Too funny.

Get7With7
12-26-2013, 11:46 PM
So you think that Fichtner or Wilson will have the same offense as Haley and I am silly?

Too funny.

Well I guess the Steelers have been keeping Keith Butler around so he can radically change the defense when LeBeau steps down, huh?

Think before you type.

Big T
12-27-2013, 12:37 AM
Well I guess the Steelers have been keeping Keith Butler around so he can radically change the defense when LeBeau steps down, huh?

Think before you type.

2 words: Ray Horton. Dude has had a lot of success since leaving here. I hate how fans just assume promoting Butler to DC would result in the same defense.

TarlsQtr
12-27-2013, 01:47 AM
Well I guess the Steelers have been keeping Keith Butler around so he can radically change the defense when LeBeau steps down, huh?

Think before you type.

People get promoted from within all over the league every season and do not use the same offense or defense as their predecessor.

So, do you ever watch football or do you wander aimlessly from message board to message board?

DBR96A
12-27-2013, 12:19 PM
If the Steelers score 35 points against the Browns, they become the third-highest-scoring team in franchise history, and the highest-scoring team under Ben Roethlisberger. If they score 41 points, they become the third team to score 400 points in franchise history.

On the other hand, the Steelers have already allowed the most points in a season since 1988, and already rank in the top (bottom) five for most points allowed in franchise history. And the four teams that are worse all had double-digit losses.

Get7With7
12-27-2013, 12:37 PM
People get promoted from within all over the league every season and do not use the same offense or defense as their predecessor.

So, do you ever watch football or do you wander aimlessly from message board to message board?

So did Peyton's offense change when McCoy went to the Chargers? Did Rodgers' offense change when Philbin went to the Dolphins? Did Brady's offense change whenever his OCs change? When you have a franchise QB that excels in no-huddle, changing OCs is no big deal, because really it's the QB running the show. Might as well get rid of the OC with off-field baggage.

I know this is a lot of information for you to take in, and judging by your previous posts you tend to have trouble with that. Just sit down, breath slowly for a few seconds, and take your time reading it. You'd be surprised at how that would avoid making you look silly again.

TarlsQtr
12-27-2013, 12:57 PM
So did Peyton's offense change when McCoy went to the Chargers? Did Rodgers' offense change when Philbin went to the Dolphins? Did Brady's offense change whenever his OCs change? When you have a franchise QB that excels in no-huddle, changing OCs is no big deal, because really it's the QB running the show. Might as well get rid of the OC with off-field baggage.

I know this is a lot of information for you to take in, and judging by your previous posts you tend to have trouble with that. Just sit down, breath slowly for a few seconds, and take your time reading it. You'd be surprised at how that would avoid making you look silly again.

LOL

First, you have no idea what an OC does, which is far more than call plays on Sunday afternoons. The QB does not "run the show" in any way, shape, or form other than call plays at the LOS when running the no huddle.

Second, the Steelers do not even run the no huddle that much, especially compared to Peyton, Brady, etc. 50 percent is a lot for us unless we get behind and are in the hurry up.

Finally, you made the assumption that promotion from within means not changing the offense. That is hogwash. Your examples mean nothing because I never claimed that it necessarily meant change, only that your assumption was foolish.

PS Did the offense change when Whiz took over for Mularkey or when Whiz left and Arians was promoted? I thought so. Even if they keep the language and make subtle changes (such as playcalling), they are changes that the QB has to adapt to.

The funny part is how you suddenly shut up about how Haley's offense has turned Ben into Trent Dilfer in the middle of one of Ben's best seasons and now want Haley fired for a couple of minor civil lawsuits. I suppose that is easier than admitting you were wrong and that Haley has been good for Ben. When the QB you have been defending forever has pretty much said you are full of sh!t, it is time to shut up. What a tool.

Real Deal Steel
12-27-2013, 02:09 PM
So did Peyton's offense change when McCoy went to the Chargers? Did Rodgers' offense change when Philbin went to the Dolphins? Did Brady's offense change whenever his OCs change? When you have a franchise QB that excels in no-huddle, changing OCs is no big deal, because really it's the QB running the show. Might as well get rid of the OC with off-field baggage.

I know this is a lot of information for you to take in, and judging by your previous posts you tend to have trouble with that. Just sit down, breath slowly for a few seconds, and take your time reading it. You'd be surprised at how that would avoid making you look silly again.

Wow. Yet another person in a beef with Tarlsqtr. What a shock. :rolleyes:

TarlsQtr
12-27-2013, 05:29 PM
Wow. Yet another person in a beef with Tarlsqtr. What a shock. :rolleyes:

Wow, RDS ignoring any and all relevant discussion. What a shock. Perhaps you can tell us again how Colbert will make a CB give a 10 yard cushion.

JackLambert
12-28-2013, 09:56 AM
The D has been horrible. At least the LBs have shown some good things. If the old Woodley would ever return there's a lot to like there. However, while I like Heyward, the front 3 is awful. Some of those guys would be solid depth/rotation players but they need an impact NT and Smith-type DE in the worst way. Clark and Taylor stink and need to go. I was another person screaming about letting Lewis walk to keep a guy 6 years older. CB is a huge need.

Funny, even with another season of musical chairs at OL, the offense has started to look good. I wouldn't draft much on that side of the ball. Gotta fix that D. And, for crying out loud, if there's a real P coming out of college please burn a 5th/6th rounder to draft him.

Dean Denton
12-28-2013, 10:01 AM
Blow yourself cry babies...

Big T
12-28-2013, 11:59 AM
The D has been horrible. At least the LBs have shown some good things. If the old Woodley would ever return there's a lot to like there. However, while I like Heyward, the front 3 is awful. Some of those guys would be solid depth/rotation players but they need an impact NT and Smith-type DE in the worst way. Clark and Taylor stink and need to go. I was another person screaming about letting Lewis walk to keep a guy 6 years older. CB is a huge need.

Funny, even with another season of musical chairs at OL, the offense has started to look good. I wouldn't draft much on that side of the ball. Gotta fix that D. And, for crying out loud, if there's a real P coming out of college please burn a 5th/6th rounder to draft him.

Saying the front three have been horrible is ridiculous since that includes Heyward. Since being put into the starting lineup he's been dominant. You want a "Smith-type DE?"... Look no further than #97.

JackLambert
12-28-2013, 03:34 PM
Saying the front three have been horrible is ridiculous since that includes Heyward. Since being put into the starting lineup he's been dominant. You want a "Smith-type DE?"... Look no further than #97.

Yeah, and about the other DE position, which has done nothing? To say nothing of how bad the NTs have been...

coldrolled
12-29-2013, 12:45 PM
If the Steelers score 35 points against the Browns, they become the third-highest-scoring team in franchise history, and the highest-scoring team under Ben Roethlisberger. If they score 41 points, they become the third team to score 400 points in franchise history.

On the other hand, the Steelers have already allowed the most points in a season since 1988, and already rank in the top (bottom) five for most points allowed in franchise history. And the four teams that are worse all had double-digit losses.

This defense needs an overhaul.... Ben and Haley are fine.

Real Deal Steel
12-29-2013, 12:45 PM
If the Steelers score 35 points against the Browns, they become the third-highest-scoring team in franchise history, and the highest-scoring team under Ben Roethlisberger. If they score 41 points, they become the third team to score 400 points in franchise history.

On the other hand, the Steelers have already allowed the most points in a season since 1988, and already rank in the top (bottom) five for most points allowed in franchise history. And the four teams that are worse all had double-digit losses.

Hell of a stat. Speaks volumes. Black Monday is tomorrow. I'd sure love to move LaBeau and get a DC.