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SnakeEyes43
12-17-2013, 03:31 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10152902/lamarr-woodley-pittsburgh-steelers-ruled-vs-green-bay-packers


PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh Steelers outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley will not play Sunday against the Green Bay Packers and could also miss the regular-season finale because of an injured right calf.

Woodley, the highest-paid defensive player in franchise history, missed three games earlier this season with a left calf strain. He strained his right calf early in the Steelers' 30-20 win over the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday night, and both injuries make it unlikely that he will play again this season.

Coach Mike Tomlin said putting Woodley on the injured reserve list is a possibility.

Woodley has battled injuries since hurting his hamstring in 2011 during one of the most productive stretches of his career. Since signing a six-year, $61.5 million contract in 2011, he's missed 12 games because of hamstring and calf injuries as well as a high ankle sprain.

The seventh-year veteran is second on the Steelers with five sacks, and he moved to right outside linebacker two weeks ago to accommodate Jason Worilds at left outside linebacker.

Woodley is seventh on the Steelers' all-time sacks list with 57.

"He's been solid, not only this season but over the course of his career," Tomlin said Tuesday at his weekly news conference. "But obviously, particularly in recent years, he's had to battle some injuries, unfortunately for him and for us."

Jarvis Jones, the Steelers' first-round pick in the 2013 draft, will take over at right outside linebacker for Woodley.

Jones has just one sack this season, but he has received praise from defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau for the growth he has exhibited during his rookie season.

Tomlin echoed LeBeau's sentiments Tuesday.

"Although his numbers might not be jumping off the page at you, I really think [Jones] is settling in and playing harder and faster and displaying understanding at an increased rate every week," Tomlin said. "That's an element of playing well and producing plays."

In other injury news, defensive end Brett Keisel (foot) and nose tackle Steve McLendon (ankle) are expected to play Sunday at Lambeau Field.


I hope we find a way to re-sign Worilds...

I used to love Woodley, but these nagging injuries are getting to be too much.

steelchamp204
12-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Cut him even if it doesnt help the team right away. It will help the future of this team.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-17-2013, 03:40 PM
Woodley is done.....His muscles in his body can't sustain any game action anymore it seems like since he is constantly injured.....Stick a fork in him.......Worilds has come on as a player and does look more comfortable in Woodley's spot.....

SnakeEyes43
12-17-2013, 03:41 PM
The choice between Wood and Worilds (for the future benefit of this team) is a no brainer. Good god, never thought I would say that!

steelchamp204
12-17-2013, 03:44 PM
It will help this team out in the long run to get some cap space to sign some solid FA.

Dean Denton
12-17-2013, 03:46 PM
Paying Woodley that much money is the biggest bust in franchise history. He was never worth a 60 million dollar contract and now we are stuck paying this injury prone waste of space another year. My god I can't believe we are stuck with this guy....

LatrobePA
12-17-2013, 03:50 PM
Paying Woodley that much money is the biggest bust in franchise history. He was never worth a 60 million dollar contract and now we are stuck paying this injury prone waste of space another year. My god I can't believe we are stuck with this guy....

This and this... We're screwed and his pockets get fatter and fatter! I hated this move!

Black@Gold Forever32
12-17-2013, 03:54 PM
Paying Woodley that much money is the biggest bust in franchise history. He was never worth a 60 million dollar contract and now we are stuck paying this injury prone waste of space another year. My god I can't believe we are stuck with this guy....

Well that is what happens when the team has so much success.....The Steelers tried to keep a Super Bowl roster together for to long and gave out a ton of money especially on the defensive side of the ball.........Honestly has Troy, Woodley, and even Timmons lived up to their huge contracts? Timmons hasn't been bad at all and actually he has been very good but I still expect more from a player that is being paid like he is......

Big T
12-17-2013, 04:04 PM
@steelers: We have placed LaMarr Woodley on IR and signed linebacker Jamaal Westerman to fill the roster spot.

K Train
12-17-2013, 04:08 PM
damnit.

Biggest bust in franchise history is a reach, but very disappointing. I hope he takes a pay cut, i wouldnt, but it sure would be nice

LatrobePA
12-17-2013, 04:14 PM
@steelers: We have placed LaMarr Woodley on IR and signed linebacker Jamaal Westerman to fill the roster spot.

2 games left, oh well I guess but the question marks will be there next season!

Big T
12-17-2013, 04:48 PM
It sucks because he really was playing well before he got hurt. If only the dude could stay healthy. Dude was dominant in 2011 before he got injured and just hasn't been the same since. He really was getting back to that before getting injured again this year. It's a shame.

Best case scenario would be for him to take a paycut to return next year. When he's healthy he's still a good player (too bad he just can't stay healthy). Can't have too many guys who can rush the passer. Gonna be an interesting offseason. I may be in the minority but I hope they can find a way to keep him around (at a lesser salary of course).

NeilPatrickBanana
12-17-2013, 04:57 PM
damnit.

Biggest bust in franchise history is a reach, but very disappointing. I hope he takes a pay cut, i wouldnt, but it sure would be nice

No way woodley (his agent) agree to a pay cut, they know the steelers can't cut him.

WindyCityShaker
12-17-2013, 05:48 PM
No way woodley (his agent) agree to a pay cut, they know the steelers can't cut him.

If this were the no salary cap world of MLB we could find a team willing to fork out the cash and give a prospect or two in return.....sad.

Nolrog
12-17-2013, 06:13 PM
Well that is what happens when the team has so much success.....The Steelers tried to keep a Super Bowl roster together for to long and gave out a ton of money especially on the defensive side of the ball.........Honestly has Troy, Woodley, and even Timmons lived up to their huge contracts? Timmons hasn't been bad at all and actually he has been very good but I still expect more from a player that is being paid like he is......

That's the problem with the Steelers approach. Eventually, you gotta pay the piper. That time is now. Worilds has definitely earned being resigned and given one of the starting roles, even over Woodley. I think we should look to move him out, perhaps via trade, and look to recover from the cap hell we're in.

Troy has absolutely been worth it. He is still a special player; that defense is completely different when he's out there.

Big T
12-17-2013, 06:22 PM
I agree on Troy. He's been out of position at times this year but he's still making splash/impact plays and creating turnovers. 2 picks and 4 FFs (tied for the league lead). I don't see him not being around next year.

LatrobePA
12-17-2013, 06:59 PM
I agree on Troy. He's been out of position at times this year but he's still making splash/impact plays and creating turnovers. 2 picks and 4 FFs (tied for the league lead). I don't see him not being around next year.

I'm willing to bet Troy retires a Steeler! I can see him helping with a pay cut...

coldrolled
12-17-2013, 07:15 PM
Woodley could take a pay cut. Or end up a traveling kinda gypsy olb begging for dollars.

LASVEGASGUY
12-17-2013, 07:22 PM
Paying Woodley that much money is the biggest bust in franchise history. He was never worth a 60 million dollar contract and now we are stuck paying this injury prone waste of space another year. My god I can't believe we are stuck with this guy....

He is making the Duce Staley signing look like a good move.

steelchamp204
12-17-2013, 07:28 PM
He is making the Duce Staley signing look like a good move.

DDDDUUUUUUUCCCCCCEEEEEEE, He was ****ing horrible

Dean Denton
12-17-2013, 08:13 PM
He is making the Duce Staley signing look like a good move.

How much did we pay Duce?

jdehoff83
12-17-2013, 09:07 PM
Who is this woodley you speak of? : )

Big T
12-17-2013, 09:15 PM
How much did we pay Duce?

It was a 5-year, $14 million contract

LevonKirkland99
12-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Woodley hasn't been himself since that calf injury way back. Time for me to sell his jersey!

LevonKirkland99
12-17-2013, 10:00 PM
How much did we pay Duce?

Wow, I haven't heard that name in a while. Damn...

Dean Denton
12-17-2013, 11:21 PM
It was a 5-year, $14 million contract

Yeah that's high, and considering I don't remember him really doing much but sitting on the bench we got hosed. When we signed him I was reading it on line and I got so excited because I thought it was the other Duce, I thought it was Deuce Mcallister. I was going bat sh!t crazy. Then I realized it was that beast out of Philly and I was like, "oh him."... Still, I think the Woodley payout is worse. Isn't he like 14 mil against the cap? Worst ever considering he doesn't play at all. I cancelled my Sunday ticket two years ago and have only seen the steelers on national slots and I haven't seen woodley in two years. I'm worth more to the franchise then he is. At least I feel bad....

Nolrog
12-18-2013, 07:17 AM
No way woodley (his agent) agree to a pay cut, they know the steelers can't cut him.

Sure they can cut him. It would be costly, but not impossible.

LatrobePA
12-18-2013, 09:58 AM
Sure they can cut him. It would be costly, but not impossible.

I read that's their plan.. Woodley played his last game for this team!

Tuesday, December 17, 2013




Steelers place Woodley on IR



The Steelers on Tuesday placed linebacker LaMarr Woodley on injured reserve with a calf injury, his second calf injury in the past month and a half - to different legs.

The move, in effect, will end Woodley's career with the Steelers. Expect him to be released with a designation for the move to be made after June 1.

They will move forward with Jason Worilds at left outside linebacker and do whatever they need to keep Worilds, a free agent at season's end, in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers basically gave everyone a look at what direction they were leaning with that decision a couple of weeks ago when Woodley returned from his first calf injury and they kept Worilds at left outside linebacker instead of simply putting Woodley back at his old spot. Woodley was rotated with rookie Jarvis Jones at right outside linebacker, with that also being the plan last Sunday against Cincinnati.

Woodley lasted just two plays against the Bengals before injuring his calf attempting to bat down a pass.

The Steelers are about $7 million over the 2014 cap with 41 players signed, including Woodley, who accounts for $13.5 million of that number. By releasing him post June 1, they can push $8.6 million of his cap hit into 2015.

Woodley's 57 career sacks rank seventh on the Steelers' all-time list, but he has just nine sacks in his last 26 games, including five this season, after suffering a hamstring injury in Week 8 of the 2011 season. He had 44 sacks in his previous 56 games prior to the hamstring injury

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 10:05 AM
Sure they can cut him. It would be costly, but not impossible.

Woodley's 2014 Cap Hit = 13.599 million (8 mil salary, 2.6 signing bonus, 2.99 restructure bonus)

If we Trade Woodley his accelerated cap hit in 2014 is = 14.170 (5.2 signing bonus remaining + 8.97 restructure bonus remaining)

If we Cut Woodley before June 1 his accelerated cap hit in 2014 is = 14.170 (5.2 signing bonus remaining + 8.97 restructure bonus remaining)

If we Cut Woodley after June 1 his accelerated cap hit in 2014 is = 5.59 (2.6 signing bonus remaining + 2.99 restructure bonus remaining) AND his accelerated cap hit in 2015 is 8.58 (2.6 in signing bonus remaining + 5.98 in restructure bonus remaining)

it's not impossible... post june 1 can be done... but that's working AGAINST cleaning up our cap situation long term

coldrolled
12-18-2013, 10:21 AM
Those numbers are crazy for a ghost player... Burfict was a cheap ILB for 4 years and leads the league in tackles.... But he had a bad attitude.

TarlsQtr
12-18-2013, 10:31 AM
Those numbers are crazy for a ghost player... Burfict was a cheap ILB for 4 years and leads the league in tackles.... But he had a bad attitude.

Keep in mind that every team in the league passed on Burfict in the draft, not just the Steelers. That includes Ozzie, Belichick, Reid, etc.

That said, I have long wished for the Steelers to take more chances on a kid like that. You are much more likely to hit on a great talent with a bad attitude in the 7th round than find a Shannon Sharpe, Richard Dent, Rayfield Wright, etc. If he does not grow up fast, he is gone and no big loss.

I think K-Train (it may have been Big T) was the only one excited about David Paulson. ;-)

K Train
12-18-2013, 10:36 AM
Burfict was a top 10 talent before he continually posted the worst combine and pro day workouts ive ever seen. He was horribly out of shape and a head case to talk to. I absolutely loved him, i would have burned a 2nd rounder on him just to take a shot but i get why he went undrafted.

I liked paulson a lot when he was at oregon (before the year he was draft eligible mostly) and i did think he would step up in heaths absence a bit more, but turns out he cant lol

LatrobePA
12-18-2013, 10:47 AM
The Steelers are over Woodley it looks like...

Nolrog
12-18-2013, 10:54 AM
If we Cut Woodley after June 1 his accelerated cap hit in 2014 is = 5.59 (2.6 signing bonus remaining + 2.99 restructure bonus remaining) AND his accelerated cap hit in 2015 is 8.58 (2.6 in signing bonus remaining + 5.98 in restructure bonus remaining)

it's not impossible... post june 1 can be done... but that's working AGAINST cleaning up our cap situation long term

Just to add in, if we desginate him a post June 1st cut, we'd still have to carry his fully salary on the books until June 1.

SnakeEyes43
12-18-2013, 11:01 AM
Burfict was a top 10 talent before he continually posted the worst combine and pro day workouts ive ever seen. He was horribly out of shape and a head case to talk to. I absolutely loved him, i would have burned a 2nd rounder on him just to take a shot but i get why he went undrafted.

At the time, I didn't want the Steelers to risk it. Now it would have made Tomlin look brilliant.

LatrobePA
12-18-2013, 11:03 AM
At the time, I didn't want the Steelers to risk it. Now it would have made Tomlin look brilliant.

Which he is not...

TarlsQtr
12-18-2013, 11:08 AM
The Woodley deal has turned out bad. However, if we had not signed him long-term after 2010 then this board would have blown up because we refused to pay another young talent. (See: Lewis, Keenan)

It is easy to evaluate in hindsight.

LatrobePA
12-18-2013, 11:09 AM
Woodley has been iffy for a while. Can't believe he's fallen apart so badly for a young guy!

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 11:53 AM
Just to add in, if we desginate him a post June 1st cut, we'd still have to carry his fully salary on the books until June 1.

exactly, which would make using the newly created cap space more difficult in terms of signings...

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 12:01 PM
The Woodley deal has turned out bad. However, if we had not signed him long-term after 2010 then this board would have blown up because we refused to pay another young talent. (See: Lewis, Keenan)

It is easy to evaluate in hindsight.

i was against re-signing Woodley from day 1.

and while it wasn't on this board, I spoke out about the recent draft classes and how it would impact being able to re-sign guys we would be investing years of development time in (at the time I was speaking of the 08-10 draft classes). when you accept that only a handful of players are going to be turned out from those classes... you can accurately project the impact... which turned out to be Wallace, Lewis, and possibly Worrilds

Lewis contract with New Orleans is awesome... we didn't refuse to pay him... we simply couldn't afford to.

WindyCityShaker
12-18-2013, 12:03 PM
exactly, which would make using the newly created cap space more difficult in terms of signings...

but more "palatable" breaking it up between the two seasons. Also players on the market will also know what the Steelers will have available come that date and might be willing to wait it out if it would be for more money than an earlier signing, and would be a good fit for both parties.

I think the Steelers have to roll the dice here, I think it's the only solution.

WindyCityShaker
12-18-2013, 12:08 PM
i was against re-signing Woodley from day 1.

and while it wasn't on this board, I spoke out about the recent draft classes and how it would impact being able to re-sign guys we would be investing years of development time in (at the time I was speaking of the 08-10 draft classes). when you accept that only a handful of players are going to be turned out from those classes... you can accurately project the impact... which turned out to be Wallace, Lewis, and possibly Worrilds


Actually I wasn't even thinking in my post above. Any cap relief we do get post June would probably go straight towards re-signing Worilds. I wonder how much JW is going to get offered this off-season, and maybe if we could agree to something in principle to get him to wait until then?

K Train
12-18-2013, 12:13 PM
i was against re-signing Woodley from day 1.

and while it wasn't on this board, I spoke out about the recent draft classes and how it would impact being able to re-sign guys we would be investing years of development time in (at the time I was speaking of the 08-10 draft classes). when you accept that only a handful of players are going to be turned out from those classes... you can accurately project the impact... which turned out to be Wallace, Lewis, and possibly Worrilds

Lewis contract with New Orleans is awesome... we didn't refuse to pay him... we simply couldn't afford to.

Heyward, Pouncey, and worilds are resigns to me. I know you dont agree, but they need to make it happen

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 12:16 PM
but more "palatable" breaking it up between the two seasons. Also players on the market will also know what the Steelers will have available come that date and might be willing to wait it out if it would be for more money than an earlier signing, and would be a good fit for both parties.

I think the Steelers have to roll the dice here, I think it's the only solution.

i hate hate hate the idea of pushing dead cap space into 2015... part of my ability to deal with the suffering in 2012/2013... was that by the end of 2014, our cap mess should have been completely resolved... pushing BIG dead cap numbers int 2015 makes me nauseous

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 12:20 PM
Heyward, Pouncey, and worilds are resigns to me. I know you dont agree, but they need to make it happen

Cutting Pouncey saves 4.1 in cap space... with only 1.5 in dead space

Because of Velasco's injury he should be a pretty cheap re-sign, maybe with some future roster bonus money.... but you could easily get him for a Million in 2014.

Wallace played well... lets see if he can keep it up... he's a ERFA so he'll come cheap as well

Velasco+Wallace+Pouncey's Dead Space = Less than Pouncey's 2014 cap hit... and a lot less in future years

Signing Pounce to an extension would be nearly identical to the mistake they made signing Woodley

K Train
12-18-2013, 12:22 PM
Cutting Pouncey saves 4.1 in cap space... with only 1.5 in dead space

Because of Velasco's injury he should be a pretty cheap re-sign, maybe with some future roster bonus money.... but you could easily get him for a Million in 2014.

Wallace played well... lets see if he can keep it up... he's a ERFA so he'll come cheap as well

Velasco+Wallace+Pouncey's Dead Space = Less than Pouncey's 2014 cap hit... and a lot less in future years

Signing Pounce to an extension would be nearly identical to the mistake they made signing Woodley

Yeah well hes the only jersey i have so **** you lol

I do really just hate the idea of letting pouncey go with this offense. I dont care where he plays, but he needs to be a part of it. I dont think he can command top dollar

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 12:25 PM
Actually I wasn't even thinking in my post above. Any cap relief we do get post June would probably go straight towards re-signing Worilds. I wonder how much JW is going to get offered this off-season, and maybe if we could agree to something in principle to get him to wait until then?

I think Worrlds market value will be in that 2nd tier free agent range... like Lewis.

Elvis Dummervil got 5 yrs 26 million
Woodley's contract was 6 yrs / 61.5 million
(god that Woodley contract is awful)

Worrilds probably hasn't put "enough on tape" to get the 5-6 year deal... but I think he gets Dummervil money (5 per), with less guaranteed, and over a shorter term...

Maybe something like 3 yrs / 15 million total / 5 guaranteed ?
2014 : 1 mil sal / 1.66 bonus / 2.66 cap
2015 : 4 mil sal / 1.66 bonus / 5.66 cap
2016 : 5 mil sal / 1.66 bonus / 6.66 cap

K Train
12-18-2013, 12:34 PM
The woodley contract was similar to Hali's contract at the time....it made sense at the time

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 12:40 PM
The woodley contract was similar to Hali's contract at the time....it made sense at the time

it never made sense... top dollar for 1 dimensional players who aren't even in the top 5 most valuable players on your defense is idiotic

it was dumb at the time
time has proven it was dumb

the debate is over

K Train
12-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Hindsight rules

NeilPatrickBanana
12-18-2013, 01:00 PM
Hindsight rules

im not using hindsight

WindyCityShaker
12-19-2013, 01:26 PM
it never made sense... top dollar for 1 dimensional players who aren't even in the top 5 most valuable players on your defense is idiotic

it was dumb at the time
time has proven it was dumb

the debate is over

Agreed.

Statistically very close overall but just because someone else will pay that money doesn't mean you have to as well. Hindsight......perhaps, but if you don't have a GM that's out in front of the game then you end up in the situation we're in now.

KC could give Hali that kind of money because who else did they have to give that money to? They didn't have a perennial contending team that they were trying to keep together, they were just trying to keep the few pieces they did have to stick around while they tried to figure the rest out. They had started building that nucleus of young players, still earning young player salaries, and could afford to splurge a bit, however we at the time could not. How could that writing on the wall be ignored? Where did we think the money was going to come from?

Also it makes no sense to pay a player at a top level, and not fully utilize him for what you are paying him for. What percentage of the time do we actually turn Woodley loose? It's no different that saying hey, let's go get a top CB and let him play zone all day........oh and let's pay him handsomely to do so.

TarlsQtr
12-19-2013, 02:29 PM
Eddie B on Woodley and the salary cap:


Good morning,

What some still do not understand when it comes to LaMarr Woodley is that the Steelers can save real money AND salary cap space by releasing him. That’s $8 million. Yes, they would have to wait until June to realize a savings on their salary cap in 2014, but they can use that money after June too. They could use it to extend the contract of Maurkice Pouncey for one, and maybe Cortez Allen, and maybe someone else.

And if they do not use that $8 million in 2014, with the new cap rules in the CBA, they can carry it over to 2015 to virtually offset the $8.5 million in dead cap money he would count against them if they do cut him in June 2014.

The argument should be whether the Steelers want the services of LaMarr Woodley so much in 2014 that they are willing to pay him $8 million in salary. Because arguing that it would cost them too much to release him just isn’t so because they would save a whole lot of money AND salary cap room any way it’s cut.

--- Onto some other stuff:

--- They will not need Woodley’s cap savings to sign Jason Worilds. They can do that by first extending Ben Roethlisberger’s contract and lowering his salary cap number for 2013.

--- An interesting equation in this run to the wire for the sixth and final playoff spot in the AFC is that three teams can make the playoffs if they win their final two games. That’s because one of them will win the AFC North. If Cincinnati wins its final two games, the Bengals are in. If Baltimore wins its final two games, the Ravens are in. If Miami wins its final two games, the Dolphins are in. Thing is Baltimore and Cincinnati play each other so that knocks one of them out (while the other wins the division title) if the Dolphins win both of their games.

--- The Steelers have a 0.6 percent chance of making the playoffs according to the web site www.makeNFLplayoffs.com, which calculates their chances of making the post-season at 2.3 percent if they win their final two games.

The site makes Miami the favorite to win the sixth seed at just over 50 percent while Baltimore has a 26 percent chance and Cincinnati 17 percent.

--- Onto your questions:

--- YOU: I have a question regarding the hit Terence Garvin laid on Kevin Huber. It was nasty and, arguably in retrospect, unnecessarily so.

However, I’ve read other reputable football sites debating the legality of the hit and I’m not sure what was potentially illegal about it. Most of these arguments state that the punter is always considered a defenseless player. If, however, the punter is moving into position to make a tackle or affect the play—as Huber clearly was—in what way is he defenseless? If a safety made the same move to try to stop a long run and took the same hit, would that be a debatable play?

Maybe I’m all wet on this, but it seems a bit blurry to me. Can you elucidate?

ME: Sorry, no, I cannot because I do not understand it either. Apparently you can block him, just not real hard. What they should do is make the punter wear bright orange like hunters so players know who they are in the split seconds they have to decide who and how to block. Either that, or have him punt and then run straight off the field. That would make him nice and safe.

--- YOU: What happened with James Harrison on sunday night? I didn't see the play in which he was injured. Is he done after this year?

ME: He left the game with a concussion. I do not know about 2014 for him, but I was told by someone who knows him that he went to Cincinnati because they offered him two years rather than the one the Steelers wanted to give him. I do not believe that, because the Steelers made him an offer, he declined and they cut him. He was in Baltimore to talk to the Ravens and left because Baltimore that day signed Elvis Dumervil. It was awhile before he finally signed with the Bengals. So he could not have weighed both the Steelers offer and the later one from Cincinnati at the same time.

--- YOU: I was unaware of the rule that punters are considered defenseless

throughout the play. Does this mean that on a fake punt the defense

has to walk on eggshells when tackling a punter running with the ball? I smile to think of Sepulveda being considered "defenseless."

ME: In that case, I think you’d have to try to hug him.

--- YOU: Today in your article, you said : Worilds will become an unrestricted free agent March 11, my question is can the Steelers sign him to an extension before March 11, or do they have to wait, & bid w/ all other teams?

ME: The Steelers can sign Worilds at any time. They could sign him today if he would agree, although they have had a policy since 1994 of not negotiating contract extensions during the season.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2013/12/19/Saving-Cap-Room-101/stories/201312190002

steelchamp204
12-19-2013, 02:37 PM
They should extend Pounc/Allen but please, I hope they do not overpay.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-19-2013, 02:47 PM
Agreed.

Statistically very close overall but just because someone else will pay that money doesn't mean you have to as well. Hindsight......perhaps, but if you don't have a GM that's out in front of the game then you end up in the situation we're in now.

It deserves mentioning that the uncapped year/rules made it impossible to be out in front on Woodley, in his the final year of his deal, they could only give him a 30% raise on his 550k, so extending him early was basically impossible...



Also it makes no sense to pay a player at a top level, and not fully utilize him for what you are paying him for. What percentage of the time do we actually turn Woodley loose? It's no different that saying hey, let's go get a top CB and let him play zone all day........oh and let's pay him handsomely to do so.

I've argued that Woodley's sack rate is because of his usage... if he rushed more regularly, his sack rate would drop significantly.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-19-2013, 02:49 PM
Eddie B on Woodley and the salary cap:



http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2013/12/19/Saving-Cap-Room-101/stories/201312190002

"And if they do not use that $8 million in 2014, with the new cap rules in the CBA, they can carry it over to 2015 to virtually offset the $8.5 million in dead cap money he would count against them if they do cut him in June 2014."

I never thought of that! Great incite!

Woodley is gone after June 1.... Hallelujah!!!!

Dean Denton
12-19-2013, 03:02 PM
"And if they do not use that $8 million in 2014, with the new cap rules in the CBA, they can carry it over to 2015 to virtually offset the $8.5 million in dead cap money he would count against them if they do cut him in June 2014."

I never thought of that! Great incite!

Woodley is gone after June 1.... Hallelujah!!!!

Holysh!t, I don't think I've ever seen you agree with someone in regards to numbers/contracts. I didn't know this either. So do we go ahead and sign Worlids after the season? Hence, letting Woodley know he's gone come June.

TarlsQtr
12-19-2013, 03:05 PM
"And if they do not use that $8 million in 2014, with the new cap rules in the CBA, they can carry it over to 2015 to virtually offset the $8.5 million in dead cap money he would count against them if they do cut him in June 2014."

I never thought of that! Great incite!

Woodley is gone after June 1.... Hallelujah!!!!

Yeah, I had forgotten that you could now roll over unused cap. That makes cutting Woodley (and the overall cap situation) many times more manageable.

TarlsQtr
12-19-2013, 03:08 PM
Holysh!t, I don't think I've ever seen you agree with someone in regards to numbers/contracts. I didn't know this either. So do we go ahead and sign Worlids after the season? Hence, letting Woodley know he's gone come June.

Another move would have to be made before signing Worilds because he will not wait until June and we cannot cut Woodley until June. The proposed solution by Eddie B is to restructure Ben to create space and sign Worilds.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-19-2013, 03:23 PM
Another move would have to be made before signing Worilds because he will not wait until June and we cannot cut Woodley until June. The proposed solution by Eddie B is to restructure Ben to create space and sign Worilds.

I think they will be able to leverage some cap space out of Ike as well...

Ike has 1 year left
Ike has a 7 million non guaranteed salary
Ike has 11.9 cap hit

If Cut, there would be 4.9 in dead space
If Cut, There would be 7.0 in cap savings

OR

Ike could take a massive pay cut from 7 million to 1 million, if he's serious about the Steelers or retirement... he might take it.
That would put his cap hit at 5.9, which is still a 6 million savings.

OR

Ike could take a massive pay cut, but get an extra year/extension.
2 million bonus
1 million guaranteed base salaries
2014 cap = 6.9 (save 5.0 in cap space on existing deal)
2015 cap = 2.0

Dean Denton
12-19-2013, 03:36 PM
I think they will be able to leverage some cap space out of Ike as well...

Ike has 1 year left
Ike has a 7 million non guaranteed salary
Ike has 11.9 cap hit

If Cut, there would be 4.9 in dead space
If Cut, There would be 7.0 in cap savings

OR

Ike could take a massive pay cut from 7 million to 1 million, if he's serious about the Steelers or retirement... he might take it.
That would put his cap hit at 5.9, which is still a 6 million savings.

OR

Ike could take a massive pay cut, but get an extra year/extension.
2 million bonus
1 million guaranteed base salaries
2014 cap = 6.9 (save 5.0 in cap space on existing deal)
2015 cap = 2.0

I like the last scenario but again the numbers always confuse me. What do you think is the most beneficial to the team and most likely way Ike will go? Do you think another team would pay him top dollar if he asks for it?

K Train
12-19-2013, 03:41 PM
"And if they do not use that $8 million in 2014, with the new cap rules in the CBA, they can carry it over to 2015 to virtually offset the $8.5 million in dead cap money he would count against them if they do cut him in June 2014."

I never thought of that! Great incite!

Woodley is gone after June 1.... Hallelujah!!!!
Well, this is a first

Dean Denton
12-19-2013, 03:45 PM
Well, this is a first

Are you referring to him agreeing with someone?

TarlsQtr
12-19-2013, 03:56 PM
I like the last scenario but again the numbers always confuse me. What do you think is the most beneficial to the team and most likely way Ike will go? Do you think another team would pay him top dollar if he asks for it?

If I were to rank the likelihood, it would be 3, 1, 2. With 3, he makes less per but can make more total money because of the extension. #2 is a huge slap in the face meaning I doubt he takes it, so cutting him outright would be close to number 3.

K Train
12-19-2013, 04:04 PM
Are you referring to him agreeing with someone?

With such passion too

NeilPatrickBanana
12-19-2013, 04:08 PM
Well, this is a first

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
When someone actually teaches me something new, I'm excited!
(Don't get used to it. lol )

WindyCityShaker
12-19-2013, 04:44 PM
It deserves mentioning that the uncapped year/rules made it impossible to be out in front on Woodley, in his the final year of his deal, they could only give him a 30% raise on his 550k, so extending him early was basically impossible...

True, I wasn't talking about extending though, just that once "the number" was on the table, you have to realize how much all of your other key players are going to require.



I've argued that Woodley's sack rate is because of his usage... if he rushed more regularly, his sack rate would drop significantly.

The rate obviously drops, but the number of sacks has to go up right? If there's a sack there's an opportunity to jar the ball loose. That also doesn't account for the lack of opportunity for Woodley to even apply pressure, which quite honestly seems to be the source of many an ill on this defense.

WindyCityShaker
12-19-2013, 04:47 PM
Eddie B on Woodley and the salary cap:


http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2013/12/19/Saving-Cap-Room-101/stories/201312190002

I think this qualifies as the best news of the season; my Christmas just got a little bit brighter.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-19-2013, 04:52 PM
The rate obviously drops, but the number of sacks has to go up right? If there's a sack there's an opportunity to jar the ball loose. That also doesn't account for the lack of opportunity for Woodley to even apply pressure, which quite honestly seems to be the source of many an ill on this defense.

You would think.... but I have my doubts...
Harrison and Woodley had nearly identical pass rush attempts and pressures in 2009-2011.
Part of the success of the zone blitz is confusion (who is coming, who is dropping)
If you increase the rush attempts, you decrease the confusion in identifying...

The net result would probably be more similar, than different

TarlsQtr
12-19-2013, 04:55 PM
I think this qualifies as the best news of the season; my Christmas just got a little bit brighter.

LOL Agreed. I was thinking that 2014 season would be far worse than 2013. It still may be but at least there is hope...

TarlsQtr
12-23-2013, 10:51 AM
Not sure if anyone saw this, but it is the most scathing indictment of Woodley that I have seen.

http://triblive.com/mobile/5264222-96/woodley-steelers-worilds

MILWAUKEE — At whichever point makes the most fiscal sense following the coming flip of the calendar, the Steelers front office should — no, must, if it is to be taken seriously — release LaMarr Woodley.

Unconditionally.

Unflinchingly.

Unapologetically.

Sure, it'll sting. It would represent, at least from this view, the most expensive mistake in franchise history at $36 million for three lousy seasons and a contract extension cut halfway through its six-year, $61.5 million term.

Actually, I'll go further and suggest it would represent the most expensive mistake in our city's sporting history, eclipsing the $10.1 million buyout the Pirates paid a noodle-armed Matt Morris to go enjoy his Florida beach house in 2008.

But even so, even with all the embarrassment that will follow, even with all the residual damage to the Steelers' cap structure, this move shouldn't be accompanied by a sliver of regret.

Not now, anyway. What's done is done.

And Woodley needs to be done here.

THE MONEY

I won't lie. I applauded when the Steelers signed Woodley to this extension on the eve of the 2011 season. I'm betting most of the fan base did, too.

And why not?

Woodley was 26, an All-Pro at the critical outside linebacker's spot in a 3-4 defense and had 39 sacks in 60 games. There were times he was unstoppable.

But we all know how it has turned out: Woodley has just 18 sacks in three seasons since, a sad rate of $500,000 per sack. He would get blocked by undersized running backs. He would make it through an entire game without a tackle. And when the Steelers take to Lambeau Field on Sunday, they'll do so for a 13th time without Woodley since the contract. The following week, in the finale against the Cleveland Browns, it'll be a 14th time as he's on injured reserve with a calf injury.

He's been a ripoff in every regard.

The damage only deepens when looking at the Steelers' salary cap situation: If they release Woodley right away, he still will cost $14.17 million against their 2014 cap. That plus Willie Colon's $4.3 million in equally dead money would represent 15 percent of the payroll. If they wait until June 1 to release Woodley, as they did with Colon last summer, Woodley's cap hit gets staggered over the next two seasons.

I'm no capologist, so I wouldn't touch the timing issue. But as for fretting over dead money as it pertains to a Woodley release, hey, isn't that kind of what the Steelers have been getting out of him for three years now?

Time to acknowledge a mistake.

THE PRIORITY

Jason Worilds must be kept.

That's what matters now the most, I'd say, of any decision the Steelers must make this offseason.

That's not to make Worilds out to be the next Derrick Thomas. He has played seven strong games in three NFL seasons, all in the past two months. But he's only 25, he took off as soon as he was moved to his natural left side at outside linebacker in place of Woodley, and the Steelers can ill afford to lose the one player who consistently has pressured the quarterback in the past two years.

That might mean franchising Worilds, which would be hugely expensive at $11 million for one year, but it also might not.

I've spent a lot of time with Worilds in recent weeks and am plenty comfortable characterizing his position this way: He wants to play. Sure, he wants to get paid, but he has zero issues with staying in Pittsburgh except that he wants to know he'll play.

Given that a first-round pick was just invested in another outside linebacker, Jarvis Jones, I'll say right here what Worilds never would: Woodley has to go.

If Worilds knows Woodley will be gone, he would entertain signing a long-term extension.

If Worilds isn't assured of that, he would be a fool to stay and risk getting buried again.

As for Jones, he hasn't shown as a rookie, to put it kindly. But he also needs to play to take that step.

Time to move on.

THE CHANGE

The best these Steelers can finish is 8-8 for a second consecutive year. Change is needed, especially on an old, slow defense.

A change is needed in attitude, too, which provides yet another compelling reason to be rid of Woodley.

His failure to keep himself in peak condition has infuriated the Steelers at all levels, especially the coaches, who look to veterans to lead, not lag, in that area. He has reported to camps overweight. He's visibly slower and weaker than ever. And, most maddening of all for those involved, this latest calf injury was another of the soft-tissue variety, the kind that drive coaches nuts.

Woodley got paid, got fat, got hurt. It'll happen again.

There's more: Upon joining the Steelers from Michigan, Woodley was among the most approachable, amicable players in the team's circle. But he has changed dramatically, no doubt coinciding with his dropoff. He has become abrasive and aggressive with people inside and outside the team. He has also consistently found a way to blame everyone for his dropoff except the man in the mirror. It's been ugly and uncomfortable to watch.

steelspikes
12-23-2013, 10:55 AM
Can anybody name a bigger bust in franchise history?

LatrobePA
12-23-2013, 10:57 AM
Can anybody name a bigger bust in franchise history?

Duce??