PDA

View Full Version : The price of keeping a contender together too long...



NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2013, 03:26 PM
Keenan Lewis age 27
5 Yrs / 25.55
Cap hits
2013 : 2.25
2014 : 4.55
2015 : 5.85
2016 : 6.2
2017 : 6.7

Those are very cap friendly numbers for a #2 corner...

Instead

Ike Taylor age 33
Cap hits after 2013 restructure
2013 : 5.88 (6.9 dead if cut)
2014 : 11.9 (4.9 dead if cut)

Ike's contract was signed in 2011, Lewis was drafted in 2009. He was developing to replace Ike, With Cortez in the pipe to back up Lewis. Instead, the Steelers tried to keep the "contender" roster together, and the affects are being seen more and more today, as we are saddled with aging vets eating up cap, and we are losing our depth and players who could fairly be projected to replace them. This isn't an argument about talent. At the time, Ike was significantly better than Lewis. But from a roster contruction and cap stand point, you have to make the difficult decisions at the right time, and in HINDSIGHT, we made the wrong decisions...

We used to let guys go... all the time... 30 yrs old, and you rarely got another contract here... but over the last 5 years we've handed out contracts to guys in their 30s like it was candy (Ike, Hamp, Keisel, Clark, Foote, Farrior, etc)...

Jason Worrilds age 25
Next Contract Unknown, likely to be lost to free agency, but likely to have a nice middle of the road contract like Lewis. Again, we will have put in all the development time, and yet won't reap the rewards of the "mid tier" 2nd contract...

Instead...

Lamaar Woodley age 29
Cap hits after 2013 restructure
2013 : 9.2
2014 : 13.6 (14.1 dead if cut)
2015 : 14.1 (8.5 dead if cut)
2016 : 12.0 (3.0 dead if cut)

I hope this organization learns from these mistakes (Don't re-sign Pouncey)

How much better shape would this organization be in with Lewis and his contract and Worrilds and his expected contract... verse the dead cap space Ike will eat up, plus the massive waste of cap space that is Woodley's contract.

Im not a Colbert hater... I think he's been an EXCELLENT front office man for a long time. I don't nit pick the missed picks, find me a GM who hasn't missed on a ton of picks and I'll show you something intelligent that Quest has said. But, there is an argument for a new set of eyes, and a new direction... during what should be another painful offseason of cap cleanup.

I dont fault Colbert, when you go to the show twice in a few years time, you should do whatever is necessary to try and make it back... but that window is closed, and now we have to pay the piper for our Cap Misdeeds...

The ONE contract we got right was Brown... having an upper echelon performer locked in at below market value for a while, is EXACTLY how you build a contender... unfortunately we've spent the last few years locking up older players at top market value... we need more Brown contracts....

Heyward needs to be locked up... now... he's a perfect candidate to get under cotnract long term BEFORE paying top dollar.

Kelvin Beachum is another guy going into the final year of a low rookie contract... lock him up as the swing back up he is now, before he solidifies his starting position.

Same with Cortez Allen... get him to sign something in the Lewis range...NOW

Set us up so that when our mess is cleaned up in 2015, we will be in good shape.

steelchamp204
12-10-2013, 03:41 PM
That's what hinders teams in every sport.

The lack of paying now instead of later, especially for talent that has shown it is consistent and worth signing for the future. No, the Steelers wait until contract year and then end up overpaying for the product.

questforSB7
12-10-2013, 03:56 PM
Keenan Lewis age 27
5 Yrs / 25.55
Cap hits
2013 : 2.25
2014 : 4.55
2015 : 5.85
2016 : 6.2
2017 : 6.7

Those are very cap friendly numbers for a #2 corner...

Instead

Ike Taylor age 33
Cap hits after 2013 restructure
2013 : 5.88 (6.9 dead if cut)
2014 : 11.9 (4.9 dead if cut)

Ike's contract was signed in 2011, Lewis was drafted in 2009. He was developing to replace Ike, With Cortez in the pipe to back up Lewis. Instead, the Steelers tried to keep the "contender" roster together, and the affects are being seen more and more today, as we are saddled with aging vets eating up cap, and we are losing our depth and players who could fairly be projected to replace them. This isn't an argument about talent. At the time, Ike was significantly better than Lewis. But from a roster contruction and cap stand point, you have to make the difficult decisions at the right time, and in HINDSIGHT, we made the wrong decisions...

We used to let guys go... all the time... 30 yrs old, and you rarely got another contract here... but over the last 5 years we've handed out contracts to guys in their 30s like it was candy (Ike, Hamp, Keisel, Clark, Foote, Farrior, etc)...

Jason Worrilds age 25
Next Contract Unknown, likely to be lost to free agency, but likely to have a nice middle of the road contract like Lewis. Again, we will have put in all the development time, and yet won't reap the rewards of the "mid tier" 2nd contract...

Instead...

Lamaar Woodley age 29
Cap hits after 2013 restructure
2013 : 9.2
2014 : 13.6 (14.1 dead if cut)
2015 : 14.1 (8.5 dead if cut)
2016 : 12.0 (3.0 dead if cut)

I hope this organization learns from these mistakes (Don't re-sign Pouncey)

How much better shape would this organization be in with Lewis and his contract and Worrilds and his expected contract... verse the dead cap space Ike will eat up, plus the massive waste of cap space that is Woodley's contract.

Im not a Colbert hater... I think he's been an EXCELLENT front office man for a long time. I don't nit pick the missed picks, find me a GM who hasn't missed on a ton of picks and I'll show you something intelligent that Quest has said. But, there is an argument for a new set of eyes, and a new direction... during what should be another painful offseason of cap cleanup.

I dont fault Colbert, when you go to the show twice in a few years time, you should do whatever is necessary to try and make it back... but that window is closed, and now we have to pay the piper for our Cap Misdeeds...

The ONE contract we got right was Brown... having an upper echelon performer locked in at below market value for a while, is EXACTLY how you build a contender... unfortunately we've spent the last few years locking up older players at top market value... we need more Brown contracts....

Heyward needs to be locked up... now... he's a perfect candidate to get under cotnract long term BEFORE paying top dollar.

Kelvin Beachum is another guy going into the final year of a low rookie contract... lock him up as the swing back up he is now, before he solidifies his starting position.

Same with Cortez Allen... get him to sign something in the Lewis range...NOW

Set us up so that when our mess is cleaned up in 2015, we will be in good shape.





The problem was that Woodley was considered an elite pass rusher. Hell, check out some of the other Elite pass rushers. Their Cap numbers are from 10, to as high as 18 million for this season. Yes it sucks cause Woodley has let himself go Physically.
But, if he can ever truly get into shape...his contract numbers are fine for his production if he can bring it back to what it was.



I fear more about Worids. I have seen too many 1 year wonders who ALWAYS have that 1 great season RIGHT before free agency. I say let some other team over pay him. But something does need to happen with Ike's deal. And I agree on Pouncey...he needs to be offered up in a trade with Miami. Same with Troy. Get something for them now.

steelchamp204
12-10-2013, 04:01 PM
I dont think Worilds is a one year wonder. He is showing more than just being a fluke. I hope the Steelers resign him to be honest.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2013, 04:18 PM
I dont think Woodley is or ever was an elite pass rusher... he was the guy who benefited the most financially from a great team around him. Getting single matchups against right tackles, when just about everyone else in the front 7 was playing at an elite level (2008/2009)...

I was actually happy that there was that CBA/uncapped year issue, that prevented them from extending him in 2010 (when he was forced to take a horrible 1 year RFA qualifying offer)... I had hoped they would milk that year, and let him walk... HUGE mistake re-signing him.

Real Deal Steel
12-10-2013, 06:12 PM
I dont think Worilds is a one year wonder. He is showing more than just being a fluke. I hope the Steelers resign him to be honest.

Ditto.

steelchamp204
12-10-2013, 06:37 PM
I dont think Woodley is or ever was an elite pass rusher... he was the guy who benefited the most financially from a great team around him. Getting single matchups against right tackles, when just about everyone else in the front 7 was playing at an elite level (2008/2009)...

I was actually happy that there was that CBA/uncapped year issue, that prevented them from extending him in 2010 (when he was forced to take a horrible 1 year RFA qualifying offer)... I had hoped they would milk that year, and let him walk... HUGE mistake re-signing him.

I always ****ing said this and got flamed for it.

Woodley was a beast when Harrison was on the other side receiving attention. Don't get me wrong, Wood is a good pass rusher when healthy, but I think he can get back to his old ways with the way Worilds is playing, if they resign Worilds.

I just think he was overpaid drastically.

Big T
12-10-2013, 07:51 PM
I always ****ing said this and got flamed for it.

Woodley was a beast when Harrison was on the other side receiving attention. Don't get me wrong, Wood is a good pass rusher when healthy, but I think he can get back to his old ways with the way Worilds is playing, if they resign Worilds.

I just think he was overpaid drastically.

I hate when people try and use this argument. You don't think Woodley was ever that great and is overpaid? Cool. That's fine. Your opinion. But go back to 2011 when James Harrison broke his orbital bone and missed 4 games... Woodley had multiple sacks in all 4 games Harrison missed and that doesn't include the intentional grounding penalty he drew against the Cardinals for a safety when he had Kolb in the endzone.

Having James Harrison obviously didn't hurt Woodley, but saying he was only beast when Harrison was receiving all the attention is just wrong. Woodley absolutely dominated when Harrison was out for those games and he was the only guy offenses had to worry about. The last game of that stretch against the patriots is when he popped his hammy going for his 3rd sack of the game and whipped out his potential DPOY season. Man I wish that hadn't happened. Ever since then he just can't stay healthy.

Big T
12-10-2013, 08:55 PM
They could ask Woodley to take a paycut. If he won't, then there is the possibility of releasing him with a June 2 designation. If they did that, he would count 5.5 mil against the cap this year and clear 8 mil in cap space. I wouldn't be a fan of that option, but it is one. Especially if they look to sign Worilds to a new deal.

LatrobePA
12-10-2013, 10:44 PM
They could ask Woodley to take a paycut. If he won't, then there is the possibility of releasing him with a June 2 designation. If they did that, he would count 5.5 mil against the cap this year and clear 8 mil in cap space. I wouldn't be a fan of that option, but it is one. Especially if they look to sign Worilds to a new deal.

I think they need to explore this.