PDA

View Full Version : Trading down for value



BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 10:28 AM
The only player that I believe is worthy of staying at 15 to grab is Amobi Okoye. I have said this before, this guy reminds me a lot of the guy we drafted first in 1969! Y'all might know him as Mean Joe. I believe he makes an immediate impact on somebodies defense and would love it to be ours! If we can't grab Okoye I am hoping we trade down to pick up an extra pick in the 3rd. Anthony Spencer, Adam Carriker, or Jarvis Moss would all be good picks in late round 1! After senior bowl week I am a huge Okoye fan! He was the most outstanding player in that week! He also seems to possess the character that the Rooney's like in their players. I think Okoye is a player who we will see in Hawaii for many years to come and I for one am hoping to see him there wearing a black helmet! Oh yeah, and he's only 19. And all those great O-lineman that some of you are frothing at the mouth to get........they couldn't block this guy in the game or in practice. Staley, Grubbs, Blalock and Kalil got ate up by this guy! That is why on most scouts boards this guy jumped from a 2nd rounder all the way up to a top 10 pick. If he falls to 15 we need to grab him and if someone snags him move down for one of the other 3 I mentioned above! IMHO

:beer3:

House of Steel
02-13-2007, 10:45 AM
Okoye got my attention big time after the Senior Bowl. I would definitely lock and load to pick this guy up. I wonder if he could dominate some of our veterans? If we get this guy, I am definitely want to make a trip to Latrobe to watch him in action. I am so pumped for this season to get started.

DIESELMAN
02-13-2007, 11:11 AM
I've been reading a lot about this guy and also seen him in action @ Louisville. Hes a stud alright and would make any defense a hell of a lot better. Been playing since he was 16 at the college level. Just imagine what he'll be like in another 5 years.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 11:16 AM
I wonder if he could dominate some of our veterans?

I think its safe to say that he will dominate O-lineman at the NFL level too! After all, he was playing against some of this years top O-line prospects and they couldn't handle him! Does he have room for growth and developement? Yes! That is what makes him so scary! Every NFL defense has those 2 or 3 players that anchor the defense that you build around. I really think Okoye is one of those. Just like Demarcus Ware has been to the Cowboys D! I would hate to see him blowing up our running plays in the backfield wearing Bengal stripes! Know what I mean?

:touchdownrun:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 11:32 AM
The way his stock has skyrocketed he could easily be gone in the late top 10 so we're going to have to trade up to get him if the team feels that strongly; which could mean having to part with a 3rd round pick unless we put a player in the deal. I'd love to have him, he's about as much of a sure thing as you're going to get but I don't know if we're willing to pay what teams will want to move up.


As far as trading down a few spots for value, Im all for it to get a guy like Spencer.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 11:56 AM
I have seen Okoye projected everywhere between the 8th and the 18th pick in the latest mock drafts. If he falls to 15th I think he's a no brainer! And I still think we would have a shot at Spencer/Carriker/Moss in round 2 at the 47th pick. Also that salary cap article discussed compensatory picks for Chris Hope, Kimo Von Ol Hoffen and Atwaan Randle El. Possibly an extra 3rd and an extra 4th rounder. Perhaps we go O-line in the 3rd with 2 picks and then address a FWP stablemate in the 4th. Yeah, its nice to dream! :lol:

House of Steel
02-13-2007, 12:09 PM
The big rumor out of Miami is they may draft Okoye or Levi Brown with their pick. I wish they would bypass that and draft a damn QB like Quinn cause then, I would suspect Okoye to drop right into our laps. I swear Tomlin and Colbert would be damn stupid if they pass him up.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 12:20 PM
Ive been reading up on tons of mocks all over the web the lowest Ive seen is 18 I believe. Stranger things have happened, who would have thought Ben would fall to us in the draft.

Yeah we can definitely dream :lol: If the steelers want this guy, Im sure their draft team will scouting everybody around them to see how much somebody wants to move up to get him. If we could give away some comp. picks to move up that would be ideal although unlikely IMO. Spencer is a late first round to high 2nd round but I'd be willing to take him at around 20 if it works out.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 12:32 PM
Im picturing Brett Kiesel moving back to ILB and Okoye playing DE in the 3-4 with Spencer replacing Haggans at OLB!

A. Smith C. Hampton A. Okoye
A. Spencer J. Farrior B. Kiesel J. Porter


How would you like to run or block against that front 7? :nono:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 12:41 PM
Im picturing Brett Kiesel moving back to ILB and Okoye playing DE in the 3-4 with Spencer replacing Haggans at OLB!

A. Smith C. Hampton A. Okoye
A. Spencer J. Farrior B. Kiesel J. Porter


How would you like to run or block against that front 7? :nono:

That's not a bad scenario, although Im thinking Larry Foote might have something to say about it. ;)

If we could land Okoye, he'd could fit in to the plans of integrating a 43 hybrid scheme as well, then you'd have Hampton, Okoye, A. Smith, and Kiesel. Now THAT would be formidable as well :bigthumb:

Im not sure Keisel would do so well anymore at ILB, he had a great year on the DL and he's a bit big to be back there in the middle unless we're going back to the Levon Kirkland type of LB corp :greengrin:

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 12:54 PM
That's not a bad scenario, although Im thinking Larry Foote might have something to say about it. ;)

Hampton, Okoye, A. Smith, and Kiesel. Now THAT would be formidable as well :bigthumb:

Who would be your LB's with that front 4?

Spencer, Farrior & Porter?

I think Haggans will be a cap casualty. Foote is a good LB and could be the 2nd ILB when they run the 3-4. Im glad you didn't object to any rookies starting on our defense......I was already locked and loaded to throw Jack Lambert (74? DROY) on ya! :lol:

House of Steel
02-13-2007, 12:54 PM
I would love that, to go back to a Levon Kirkland style DB. I like that Front 7 BNGfrv just pulled up. I am going to love this season coming up. We are going to be one kick *** team from hell.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 01:19 PM
Who would be your LB's with that front 4?

Spencer, Farrior & Porter?

I think Haggans will be a cap casualty. Foote is a good LB and could be the 2nd ILB when they run the 3-4. Im glad you didn't object to any rookies starting on our defense......I was already locked and loaded to throw Jack Lambert (74? DROY) on ya! :lol:

More than likely yes, Spencer, Farrior & Porter. Haggans; play has dropped off the last year and half. While he shows games of brilliance he's far too inconsistent. If we ran a 43 with that lineup, and mixed it in with Foote in the 34 situations, that would be downright beastly !

Im not opposed to having rookies in the starting lineup at all. I dont really want 2 of the 4 LB's though to be rookies unless we absolutely had to do it that way, but with the talent we have as starters now, the backups with James and Arnold Harrison and whoever we get in the draft we could be ready to go to a whole nother level on defense.

K Train
02-13-2007, 01:29 PM
Okoye was unblockable at the seior bowl....you might as well give up on getting him at 15th....not gonna happen

House of Steel
02-13-2007, 01:31 PM
Unless we trade up and trade one of our players and compensation picks. It is possible. I want this guy and badly.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 01:47 PM
Okoye was unblockable at the seior bowl....you might as well give up on getting him at 15th....not gonna happen

There are only 14 teams ahead of us and I can name a handful off the top that have more pressing needs! It is conceivable based on other teams needs that he could fall to us. :yesnod:

Raiders-QB
Texans-RB or QB
Detroit-QB or OL
Arizona-OL
Atlanta-WR
Tampa-WR

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 01:58 PM
I like Okoye alot and I wouldn't mind trading down if he isn't there at 15. But I want to clear some things up. Okoye would be a NT in a 3-4. I don't think Okoye would be a good fit at DE in a 3-4. He is to short. Look at the typical 3-4 DE and they're usually around 6-5. I think Okoye is 6-1. Now if the Steelers use a 4-3 at times then I think Okoye could play DE in a 4-3.

No matter what Amobi Okoye is going to be a beast and he would be a no brainer to pick at 15. Now for Brett Keisel if he is going to play LB in a 3-4 it would be at OLB since Keisel's strength is rushing the passer. Our ILB have more coverage responsibilties. I would worry aboue Keisel in pass coverage.

SteelersfaninPhilly
02-13-2007, 02:05 PM
Cut Porter before you cut haggans. You save more money.

Koopa
02-13-2007, 02:05 PM
The only player that I believe is worthy of staying at 15 to grab is Amobi Okoye. I have said this before, this guy reminds me a lot of the guy we drafted first in 1969! Y'all might know him as Mean Joe. I believe he makes an immediate impact on somebodies defense and would love it to be ours! If we can't grab Okoye I am hoping we trade down to pick up an extra pick in the 3rd. Anthony Spencer, Adam Carriker, or Jarvis Moss would all be good picks in late round 1! After senior bowl week I am a huge Okoye fan! He was the most outstanding player in that week! He also seems to possess the character that the Rooney's like in their players. I think Okoye is a player who we will see in Hawaii for many years to come and I for one am hoping to see him there wearing a black helmet! Oh yeah, and he's only 19. And all those great O-lineman that some of you are frothing at the mouth to get........they couldn't block this guy in the game or in practice. Staley, Grubbs, Blalock and Kalil got ate up by this guy! That is why on most scouts boards this guy jumped from a 2nd rounder all the way up to a top 10 pick. If he falls to 15 we need to grab him and if someone snags him move down for one of the other 3 I mentioned above! IMHO

:beer3:

hell no to adam carriker, we don't need him this year, or DE's are just fine, we need an OLB/DE not just a straight up DE................ i wouldn't mind trading down cause i don't think there's anyone really 15 worthy when we draft, okoye will be long gone...........i wish hell would freeze over and gaines adams would fall lol...........but i wouldn't mind trading down to get spencer cause he is a crazy reach at 15

Koopa
02-13-2007, 02:10 PM
I like Okoye alot and I wouldn't mind trading down if he isn't there at 15. But I want to clear some things up. Okoye would be a NT in a 3-4. I don't think Okoye would be a good fit at DE in a 3-4. He is to short. Look at the typical 3-4 DE and they're usually around 6-5. I think Okoye is 6-1. Now if the Steelers use a 4-3 at times then I think Okoye could play DE in a 4-3.

No matter what Amobi Okoye is going to be a beast and he would be a no brainer to pick at 15. Now for Brett Keisel if he is going to play LB in a 3-4 it would be at OLB since Keisel's strength is rushing the passer. Our ILB have more coverage responsibilties. I would worry aboue Keisel in pass coverage.

co-sign............ okoye is a NT in the 3-4 no matter what, and why the hell would you move keisel??? he did good at DE, he wouldn't make a good LB.........

K Train
02-13-2007, 02:18 PM
**** Carriker, we would go after Woodley (who i like), or Abiramiri who could be good for us.

Spencer
Moss
Poz
Woodley
Moses
Abiramiri

would all fit in our system and are all potential first rounders/early second. If we edecide on going OLB in th first 2 rounds we will get a good one regardless

Koopa
02-13-2007, 02:23 PM
**** Carriker, we would go after Woodley (who i like), or Abiramiri who could be good for us.

Spencer
Moss
Poz
Woodley
Moses
Abiramiri

would all fit in our system and are all potential first rounders/early second. If we edecide on going OLB in th first 2 rounds we will get a good one regardless


i love that attitude, **** carriker :lol: i wouldn't mind any of those guys you mentioned......... moses would be a good pick up if he'd pick his game back up to how he played his junior season, i was reading up on him and he had a crazy drop off in numbers his senior year, they said he was probably playing not to get hurt just waiting for the nfl lol........

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 02:24 PM
co-sign............ okoye is a NT in the 3-4 no matter what, and why the hell would you move keisel??? he did good at DE, he wouldn't make a good LB.........

I think Okoye could play DE in a 4-3. But more likely he would be a DT. In a 3-4 Okoye is just a NT. As for Keisel I didn't suggest moving Keisel but I do remember some of the Steelers coaches saying that Keisel is athletic enough to OLB in a 3-4. But still keeping him at DE would be the best move. As for ILB? I think there is noway I would want Keisel at ILB and dropping into coverage at times.:bluelol:

K Train
02-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Okoye could play end in any defense and he could play tackle in any defense...hes beastly strong and is fast...comparing by how tall someone they are is overrated.

Koopa
02-13-2007, 02:28 PM
I think Okoye could play DE in a 4-3. But more likely he would be a DT. In a 3-4 Okoye is just a NT. As for Keisel I didn't suggest moving Keisel but I do remember some of the Steelers coaches saying that Keisel is athletic enough to OLB in a 3-4. But still keeping him at DE would be the best move. As for ILB? I think there is noway I would want Keisel at ILB and dropping into coverage at times.:bluelol:

yeah i know you didn't suggest he should move, that part of my post was referring to whoever suggested it, i think it would be a dumb move, he proved he could play DE, i liked him there better than kimo...... ppl said he couldn't stop the run but i thought he did a good job at that......

Koopa
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Okoye could play end in any defense and he could play tackle in any defense...hes beastly strong and is fast...comparing by how tall someone they are is overrated.

then how come teams that use 3-4, the ends are usually pretty damn tall???

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 02:33 PM
Okoye could play end in any defense and he could play tackle in any defense...hes beastly strong and is fast...comparing by how tall someone they are is overrated.

No he couldn't look at teams that run a 3-4 defense and their DE are usually around the 6-5 range. Its not to say that Okoye couldn't line up as a DE in a 3-4 but I doubt he would be effective. I would keep him at NT since that his strength.

K Train
02-13-2007, 02:40 PM
heres a little write up about the 2 schemes....but just because your "typical" end is a taller guy doesnt mean it has to be that way.


The defensive ends in a 4-3 defense should be big enough to take on an offensive tackle one-on-one, but athletic enough to get around the tackle and get to the quarterback. The defensive ends in a 3-4 defense, though, are similar in size and responsibility to the defensive tackles in the 4-3. They must be stout against the run and should take on multiple blockers to help out the linebackers. Pass rushing from a 3-4 defensive end is something of a bonus.
The outside linebackers in a 4-3 defense can get away with being a little undersized because their primary responsibility is stopping the run and dropping into coverage. The outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense, though, are the playmakers. They are often referred to as "tweeners" because their size and athleticism fall somewhere between that of the outside linebacker and the defensive end in a 4-3 defense. The 3-4 outside linebackers are primarily pass rushers, so they must be big enough to take on the tackle, but athletic and nimble enough to drop into pass coverage, as well.

While it is usually more difficult to find the personnel for a 3-4 defense - since it requires a mammoth presence inside at nose tackle and exceptional athletes at outside linebacker - it is often preferred by defensive coaches who like the flexibility and unpredictability it creates in rushing the passer. The defense is never certain which linebackers will be rushing the quarterback and which will be dropping into coverage. The 4-3 is more versatile in terms of utilizing the strengths and characteristics of a group of players, and therefore the more common of the two.

But height is overrated so much, Okoye would play tackle for a 4-3, and he would play end for a 3-4....if hampton takes up 2-3 blockers, smith is also taking up 1-2....okoye would be a massive mismatch with an offensive line just because of how strong he his....if you saw the senior bowl you saw an unblockable defensive lineman playing against some of the best offensive players. Hes the kind of player who will thrive in any defense, he needs to put some weight back on but then again its been said before....hes only 19.

but im not quite sure why im argueing were not getting him lol

TEEMONT
02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
I dunno, trading the 15 spot is tough. I think we will find something we like there.

As far as moving our LB's around....ummmm no offense to Farrior, but I gotta believe that Foote would probably win out in camp if we went to a 4-3. But that is our big problem with moving to the 4-3, we don't really have a DOMINANT MLB. As a duo, you won't find too many better then those two, but neither of them, I think, would be spectacular by themselves.

If we get Okoye, then by all means we have the manning to go to a 4-3, b/c him and Big Casey would take enough blockers that a kid with the name of Kyle (lol) would be a star at MLB.

here is how I would see a possible 4-3 with the draftin of Okoye.

DT's - Hamp, Okoye
DE's - Kesiel, Smith
MLB - Farrior/Foote (Foote is too stubborn to just go away I think he would iwn the job in camp, maybe even James Harrison is in the mix here)
OLB - Porter, Haggans/Harrison

K Train
02-13-2007, 02:51 PM
we'd probably just come up with some new weird ****ing formation so they could all play lol...its not really a matter of switching to a 4-3 or 3-4....its ****ing with the other team with whatever we do

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Train has a point, the chances of us getting him are pretty remote IMO, unless we're willing to trade up so all this prognosticating will probably be for not, but it is nice to dream and maybe something will happen :lol:

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 03:01 PM
...okoye would be a massive mismatch with an offensive line just because of how strong he his....if you saw the senior bowl you saw an unblockable defensive lineman playing against some of the best offensive players. Hes the kind of player who will thrive in any defense, he needs to put some weight back on but then again its been said before....hes only 19.

It is possible that he falls to us and it is exciting thinking of the matchup problems he and Casey would cause those O-lineman!

We aren't worried about most of these teams grabbing him because of their draft priorities. For example it would not serve the Raiders well to choose a DT when they were the lowest scoring offense in the league.....they need a QB. Atlanta needs a #1 wideout. Texans need a feature RB. When you rule out the teams with other immediate needs it is highly probable that Okoye could fall to us! We are probably only talking about 2 or 3 teams that might consider him before us. Im sure Gruden would love to draft him but his team really needs a #1 wideout as well! :crossfingers:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 03:11 PM
Denver and Cincy are 2 teams that could potentially trade up for him. Washington, Buffalo and Tampa could all use him too even though they have other needs. If those teams see him falling to them or get a chance to trade up they could jump on it.

DIESELMAN
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
I'm thinking the Dolphins go for Akoye or they could possibly trade down for another pick. Just because Akoye is only 6' 1" doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. A couple of you covered this already but he has the strength and the quickness to over come his height. He will be a force to be reckoned with, I just hope we don't have to face him to often if he goes elsewhere. As far as a 3-4 or a 4-3 and who fits where, it'll be interesting to see what Tomlin does with our talent. He is the one that says play your schemes to your talent. You get some DC's who try and fit a round peg into a square hole, it ain't going to work. We'll also see how he is in analyzing everyones strengths and weaknesses. I'm feeling something very unique happening with the Steelers D over the next couple of seasons.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 03:57 PM
Here are a few names who could go before Okoye

Jemarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Joe Thomas
Calvin Johnson
Adrian Peterson
Alan Branch
Tedd Ginn Jr.
Dwayne Jarrett
Levi Brown
Marshawn Lynch
LaRon Landry

As excited as we are at the prospect of seeing Okoye in black and gold, other teams are likely to be salivating at the idea of landing some of these other guys! Like Carolina doesn't need a D-lineman, they need a linebacker! I think Miami, Washington, S.F and St Louis are teams likely to go with a D-lineman. But on all the boards Alan Branch is projected to go higher than Okoye! So who knows? Like I said, only a couple teams would need to pass for him to fall to us. And after the NFL combines these names of top 20 players could get reshuffled again! :beer1:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 04:29 PM
Im anxious to see the combine this year, more than previous years because there's so much talent to be had before and right around the area that we pick. We have a great chance to land an awesome talent in the first round no matter what we do, and I want to see what the Steelers and their staff think of all these guys at the combine.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 05:55 PM
Amobi Okoye DT and Joe Thomas OT. These two guys would be worth trading up for IMO! Either one of these guys could start as a rookie and make significant contributions! With the compensatory picks we get this year we won't keep all these guys on our 53 man roster anyway so may as well get quality over quantity! If we can't get one of these guys I think we would get better value for our picks by trading down! Each pick in the draft has an expected contract value attached to it so you don't want to overpay a guy who you could have had for less! That would be like voluntarily paying $5.00 a gallon for gas when the station across the street has it for $2.15 I don't see any other high profile names in the top 20 worthy of 15th spot cash that we would want! :scratch:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 06:21 PM
I'll take quality of quantity anyday. Especially in our situation where we have such a talented roster as it is, going out and getting a bunch of "potential or project" guys doesn't make sense for us. If we can trade up to get some quality players either in the first round or any other round, at the expense of later round or compensatory picks, Im all for it.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Amobi Okoye DT and Joe Thomas OT. These two guys would be worth trading up for IMO! Either one of these guys could start as a rookie and make significant contributions! With the compensatory picks we get this year we won't keep all these guys on our 53 man roster anyway so may as well get quality over quantity! If we can't get one of these guys I think we would get better value for our picks by trading down! Each pick in the draft has an expected contract value attached to it so you don't want to overpay a guy who you could have had for less! That would be like voluntarily paying $5.00 a gallon for gas when the station across the street has it for $2.15 I don't see any other high profile names in the top 20 worthy of 15th spot cash that we would want! :scratch:

I agree both Okoye and Thomas are worth trading up for. I would also include Calvin Johnson in that group but the Steelers don't have the need for a WR.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 06:50 PM
heres a little write up about the 2 schemes....but just because your "typical" end is a taller guy doesnt mean it has to be that way.



But height is overrated so much, Okoye would play tackle for a 4-3, and he would play end for a 3-4....if hampton takes up 2-3 blockers, smith is also taking up 1-2....okoye would be a massive mismatch with an offensive line just because of how strong he his....if you saw the senior bowl you saw an unblockable defensive lineman playing against some of the best offensive players. Hes the kind of player who will thrive in any defense, he needs to put some weight back on but then again its been said before....hes only 19.

but im not quite sure why im argueing were not getting him lol

I guess we're going to have to disagree. I just put stock into when you look at all the teams that run the 3-4 or some 3-4 their DE's are usually from 6-3 to 6-7. Canty from Dallas was the tallest at 6-7. If Okoye was 6-3 then I could maybe see him as a DE in a 3-4 but he is only around 6-1 /6-2. Not to say he can't line up as a DE in a 3-4 just saying for Okoye to be fully effective it would be best for him to play NT in a 3-4 and a one gap DT in a 4-3 .

K Train
02-13-2007, 07:47 PM
I guess we're going to have to disagree. I just put stock into when you look at all the teams that run the 3-4 or some 3-4 their DE's are usually from 6-3 to 6-7. Canty from Dallas was the tallest at 6-7. If Okoye was 6-3 then I could maybe see him as a DE in a 3-4 but he is only around 6-1 /6-2. Not to say he can't line up as a DE in a 3-4 just saying for Okoye to be fully effective it would be best for him to play NT in a 3-4 and a one gap DT in a 4-3 .

but with a 3-4 coach and a coach who used 4-3 most of his career, we have to realize we arent married to either one and the key here is to come up with something special that we could run to perfection and if we get a force like okoye then im pretty sure we'd be in good shape....keep in mind hes bringing his weight up and how strong the guy is. he will thrive in a defense somewhere especially one with coaches who play defense like ours.



If Okoye was 6-3 then I could maybe see him as a DE in a 3-4 but he is only around 6-1 /6-2

btw this statement is ridiculous....we are talking about this much height

l------------------l
its only 2 inches :dunno:

DIESELMAN
02-13-2007, 08:02 PM
I think everyone is so used to having DE's that are tall that the idea of a 6-1 DE is unimaginable. The athleticism and speed of Okoye is actually quite unbeliveable. He played at over 320lbs at Louisville, recently dropped to 287 for the Senior Bowl and still had the speed, stamina and the bull rush. Just a thought but who's to say he can't play DE? He still has room to grow and learn so all I'm sayin is the skys the limit for this kid. Wherever he goes I hope someone uses his potential to good use.

BlackGold4vr
02-13-2007, 08:05 PM
I agree both Okoye and Thomas are worth trading up for. I would also include Calvin Johnson in that group but the Steelers don't have the need for a WR.

But like you said we really don't need a wideout! In fact Cedric might even be a cap casualty. Those were the only two guys who I feel could help fill Steeler needs worth trading up for!

:beer3:

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 08:11 PM
but with a 3-4 coach and a coach who used 4-3 most of his career, we have to realize we arent married to either one and the key here is to come up with something special that we could run to perfection and if we get a force like okoye then im pretty sure we'd be in good shape....keep in mind hes bringing his weight up and how strong the guy is. he will thrive in a defense somewhere especially one with coaches who play defense like ours.




btw this statement is ridiculous....we are talking about this much height

l------------------l
its only 2 inches :dunno:

You keep thinking what you want thats fine and I really don't care. Just saying there is reasons why 3-4 teams look for players at a certain height and weight for certain positions. Which the general ht for a 3-4 DE is around 6-5 and the general wt is around 290-300 pounds.

Most seem to think that Okoye due to his lack of ht is best suited for NT in a 3-4 and a one gap DT in a 4-3. But like I said think what you want its a free country.:bluelol: I'm done with this topic since I know I'm right.

DIESELMAN
02-13-2007, 08:12 PM
As far as Thomas goes, he might just go in the top 5. Depending on what happens in Detroit, theres a rumor goin around that Martz and Millen and Marinelli are having squabbles about whether to get a QB or not.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 08:15 PM
I think everyone is so used to having DE's that are tall that the idea of a 6-1 DE is unimaginable. The athleticism and speed of Okoye is actually quite unbeliveable. He played at over 320lbs at Louisville, recently dropped to 287 for the Senior Bowl and still had the speed, stamina and the bull rush. Just a thought but who's to say he can't play DE? He still has room to grow and learn so all I'm sayin is the skys the limit for this kid. Wherever he goes I hope someone uses his potential to good use.

I'm not talking about DE in a 4-3. I'm talking about DE in a 3-4. There is reasons why 3-4 teams look for their DE to be a certain ht and wt. Most seem to think due to Okoye's lack of ht he is better suited for NT in a 3-4 and a one gap DT in a 4-3. Not to say I wouldn't try the kid at DE if he was drafted. But I'm just going by the norm of typical 3-4 DE.

K Train
02-13-2007, 08:42 PM
ok so your right huh? well thats good i guess. I guess because hes 2 inches shorter than a "typical DE", but beastly strong and fast and can play with leverage on his side. Good way to think. Teams dont draft players on their size if they just fit the mold of a "typical" player. I know i guy who is 6-8 and 330 pounds, he should be drafted because of his size and based on only that....hes a huge guy but hes dumb as **** and never played football before. But i guess hes similar in size to henderson and stroud he has first round pick all over him.

I actually think with an open mind about a player, not based on size but based on skill....the guy can play football period, he'll play anywhere on a defensive line and he'll do it good, hes already so good and his work ethic is unmatched.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-13-2007, 09:00 PM
ok so your right huh? well thats good i guess. I guess because hes 2 inches shorter than a "typical DE", but beastly strong and fast and can play with leverage on his side. Good way to think. Teams dont draft players on their size if they just fit the mold of a "typical" player. I know i guy who is 6-8 and 330 pounds, he should be drafted because of his size and based on only that....hes a huge guy but hes dumb as **** and never played football before. But i guess hes similar in size to henderson and stroud he has first round pick all over him.

I actually think with an open mind about a player, not based on size but based on skill....the guy can play football period, he'll play anywhere on a defensive line and he'll do it good, hes already so good and his work ethic is unmatched.


I havn't read one thing on Okoye that he would fit well as a DE in a 3-4 and from what I saw of him the last few years leads me to agree with that. I never said that he wasn't going to be a badass player just don't think he is a good fit for a 3-4 DE.

As for teams that don't draft players on their size to fit their schemes. You're kidding right? Why do you think 3-4 teams always look for their DE to be a certain ht and wt? Same goes for OLB in a 3-4. So it does matter.

K Train
02-13-2007, 09:36 PM
im not saying size isnt important at all, i just think its overrated because without skill and good form your size means nothing.

Koopa
02-13-2007, 10:15 PM
if size was overrated in the 3-4, then how come teams that use the 3-4 don't use smaller DE's, i'm sure there players that are more talented that could use if it didn't matter..........

K Train
02-13-2007, 10:33 PM
im not sayin its completely unneccesary, but we arent putting a 200 pound guy there in okoye, the guy is huge and plays with dominance, he might be 2 inches shorter than what you guys would want, but i think he'll be effective anywhere on the line and whoever gets him will probably move him around a lot. He has dominated people bigger than him before so i just think that where he plays on the line is irrelevent.

We arent gonna get him anyway, but give him the credit he deserves, hes a force.

Koopa
02-13-2007, 10:38 PM
im not sayin its completely unneccesary, but we arent putting a 200 pound guy there in okoye, the guy is huge and plays with dominance, he might be 2 inches shorter than what you guys would want, but i think he'll be effective anywhere on the line and whoever gets him will probably move him around a lot. He has dominated people bigger than him before so i just think that where he plays on the line is irrelevent.

We arent gonna get him anyway, but give him the credit he deserves, hes a force.

i'm not taking any credit away from him........but he's listed as a DT for a reason, he won't play end in the nfl, maybe at times in a 4-3, but never in a 3-4, but you're right, he won't be coming here...........so this discussion is pretty much pointless.........we we get a OLB/DE in the first round, and unless we trade down it won't be spencer, it'll be someone like moss or moses.......

K Train
02-13-2007, 10:42 PM
i think spencer will raise his stock yet, i'd love to see him with us, but moss would be great....**** moses, he has yet to show me something

Koopa
02-13-2007, 10:50 PM
i think spencer will raise his stock yet, i'd love to see him with us, but moss would be great....**** moses, he has yet to show me something

for moses, you have to watch his junior year tape, he got lazy and was probably satisfied with what he showed the year before and probably played not to get hurt, i'm not sure how he did in the senior bowl, and i guess he's gonna try to do badass in the combine to get his stock up again

i wouldn't mind moss because he's young and a year under porter would be badass for him........ spencer better raise his stock, even though 32 has sold him on me, i don't want us to reach at 15 just to get him............

K Train
02-13-2007, 11:09 PM
i hate reading moses and moss....they need different names lol, we'll see about moses...he did terrible in the senior bowl, but the south got raped as a whole so thats tough to judge....combine is the key

BlitzburghRockCity
02-13-2007, 11:14 PM
for moses, you have to watch his junior year tape, he got lazy and was probably satisfied with what he showed the year before and probably played not to get hurt, i'm not sure how he did in the senior bowl, and i guess he's gonna try to do badass in the combine to get his stock up again

i wouldn't mind moss because he's young and a year under porter would be badass for him........ spencer better raise his stock, even though 32 has sold him on me, i don't want us to reach at 15 just to get him............

If that's the kind of attitude he takes, then that is not someone who should be on our team. Whether it's spencer, okoye, moss, and Mister Rogers, they better play their asses off; and if they do, good things will happen.

Koopa
02-13-2007, 11:18 PM
If that's the kind of attitude he takes, then that is not someone who should be on our team. Whether it's spencer, okoye, moss, and Mister Rogers, they better play their asses off; and if they do, good things will happen.

i'm sure he won't do that in the nfl, but i would've done the same, no point in going all out in college when it doesn't matter after you've shown you can play at a high level.......he probably should've came out his junior year, but ppl probably talked him out of it and made him stay a pointless year......... a lot of players do that **** in college, football and basketball......

Black@Gold Forever32
02-14-2007, 12:46 PM
for moses, you have to watch his junior year tape, he got lazy and was probably satisfied with what he showed the year before and probably played not to get hurt, i'm not sure how he did in the senior bowl, and i guess he's gonna try to do badass in the combine to get his stock up again

i wouldn't mind moss because he's young and a year under porter would be badass for him........ spencer better raise his stock, even though 32 has sold him on me, i don't want us to reach at 15 just to get him............

I agree Koop, that the 15th spot is to early to take Spencer. When I stated I wanted the Steelers to draft Anthony Spencer they should trade down in the first round and draft him. I always thought he was a late first rounder to early second rounder. Even though I have been Pimp'In him.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-14-2007, 12:52 PM
im not sayin its completely unneccesary, but we arent putting a 200 pound guy there in okoye, the guy is huge and plays with dominance, he might be 2 inches shorter than what you guys would want, but i think he'll be effective anywhere on the line and whoever gets him will probably move him around a lot. He has dominated people bigger than him before so i just think that where he plays on the line is irrelevent.

We arent gonna get him anyway, but give him the credit he deserves, hes a force.

K-Train I agree size is over-rated. Just look at Plax Burress and that proves size is over-rated. You keep saying he is 2 inches that I would want. Its not what I want its what mostly 3-4 for teams look in their DE. Plus they're usually around 6-5. I think Luis Castillo from the Chargers is the only one that is 6-3.

I'm not saying Okoye can't line up and play DE at times. But he is best suited to play NT in a 3-4 and a one gap DT in a 4-3. Thats all man and dude I would be very happy if Okoye was drafted by the Steelers. I agree the dude is a beast and is going to be a good player.

K Train
02-14-2007, 12:54 PM
im not sure about thats really, if spencer works out at the combine and shows us hes worth it, then we should take him, if hes really a good player we should do what we need to get him, just because hes not the biggest name out there doesnt mean hes not worth it. I do think we could get him at 20-25 but....who wants to trade up...and one thing we dont need is extra draft picks unless they are second or third rounders. we dont need 5 or 6 picks between the 6th and 7th rounds because we always end up cutting them anyway.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-14-2007, 12:59 PM
im not sure about thats really, if spencer works out at the combine and shows us hes worth it, then we should take him, if hes really a good player we should do what we need to get him, just because hes not the biggest name out there doesnt mean hes not worth it. I do think we could get him at 20-25 but....who wants to trade up...and one thing we dont need is extra draft picks unless they are second or third rounders. we dont need 5 or 6 picks between the 6th and 7th rounds because we always end up cutting them anyway.

We usually cut the late picks the last few years since Cowher/Colbert have been tanking the late round picks. I'm hoping with Tomlin aboard that changes and makes all of our draft picks count. I'm the biggest Anthony Spencer supporter on this site and I wouldn't draft him at 15. If Okoye is gone at 15 then I think the Steelers should trade down and draft Anthony Spencer.

K Train
02-14-2007, 01:01 PM
is he gonna be at the combine?