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View Full Version : Just how valuable is Troy?



Stone
10-21-2013, 01:25 PM
Before anybody gets too upset, I believe Troy could be the best defensive player I have ever seen. BUT! What is his value now?

He still makes highlight reel plays but I am seeing him totally out of position more and more! When he guesses right it gets replayed for the world to see but when he guesses wrong we seldom see it because we are watching the outcome of the play and he is nowhere near. Containment is hard enough and when he guesses wrong it basically puts us in a position to play 10 against 11.

I started watching him closely a couple weeks ago and, despite how much I have loved watching him play over the years, he is out of position more than he is in position. He has also had 2 or 3 neutral zone infractions in the last couple weeks.

Is he still an asset?

Black@Gold Forever32
10-21-2013, 01:39 PM
What highlight reel plays has he really made lately?.........I can't wait until he is gone.....

Big T
10-21-2013, 01:44 PM
What highlight reel plays has he really made lately?.........I can't wait until he is gone.....

I knew you'd be first to comment lol

coldrolled
10-21-2013, 01:49 PM
Only with a healthy troy can we 10 in a row.

What about Ike??

I actually missed Jarvis .... Worilds is a backup.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-21-2013, 02:08 PM
I knew you'd be first to comment lol

I just find it comical that Troy receives so much praise still...He doesn't do squat but some fans just love seeing him fly around with his hair....lol I would have laughed if the Ravens had went for two and scored after Troy's bonehead penalty yesterday.....Still on facebook all I read is some of ours praising him for it....I swear its annoying...I just wish the same fans that constantly knock Ben would knock the worthless Troy Polamalu.....Him being healthy still hasn't led to any INT's or fumbles....Oh but he laid out a Jet a few weeks ago and he tried to lay out Tandon Doss yesterday but Troy seem to do do more damage to himself..........lol I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps...Just wish we had another young safety to also phase out Troy......I can't wait until Troy retires or cut due to his salary....The most over-rated Steeler ever Troy Polamalu........

coldrolled
10-21-2013, 02:16 PM
I just find it comical that Troy receives so much praise still...He doesn't do squat but some fans just love seeing him fly around with his hair....lol I would have laughed if the Ravens had went for two and scored after Troy's bonehead penalty yesterday.....Still on facebook all I read is some of ours praising him for it....I swear its annoying...I just wish the same fans that constantly knock Ben would knock the worthless Troy Polamalu.....Him being healthy still hasn't led to any INT's or fumbles....Oh but he laid out a Jet a few weeks ago and he tried to lay out Tandon Doss yesterday but Troy seem to do do more damage to himself..........lol I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps...Just wish we had another young safety to also phase out Troy......I can't wait until Troy retires or cut due to his salary....The most over-rated Steeler ever Troy Polamalu........

right now do you really think that troy doesn't make every QB over think to much?
Woodley and Worilds sure don't..

did you watch mathis last night, now that's a pass rush.... Woodley and Worilds, Jarvis are the problem with the INT's.. The QB has way to much time for our DB's to cover so long and actually jump a route.

Crap, if we give Pryor that much time he will look like an elite QB, not the loser from Ohio State that he is.

questforSB7
10-21-2013, 02:17 PM
I just find it comical that Troy receives so much praise still...He doesn't do squat but some fans just love seeing him fly around with his hair....lol I would have laughed if the Ravens had went for two and scored after Troy's bonehead penalty yesterday.....Still on facebook all I read is some of ours praising him for it....I swear its annoying...I just wish the same fans that constantly knock Ben would knock the worthless Troy Polamalu.....Him being healthy still hasn't led to any INT's or fumbles....Oh but he laid out a Jet a few weeks ago and he tried to lay out Tandon Doss yesterday but Troy seem to do do more damage to himself..........lol I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps...Just wish we had another young safety to also phase out Troy......I can't wait until Troy retires or cut due to his salary....The most over-rated Steeler ever Troy Polamalu........





If you look at my past threads, you will see I was the first to come up with players we MIGHT look into trading IF our season continued to go bad. And Troy was one of them. However, your opinion on Troy being overrated is so very very wrong. In fact, yesterday Troy might have been our best player on Defense. He made SEVERAL tackles at, or behind the line of scrimmage.
And what you fail to understand is that even when Troy is NOT Tackling a player or making Interceptions is what he does that the stat sheet does NOT show. Troy prevents any opposing offense from getting too comfortable out there. His presence allows OTHERS to make plays cause opposing offenses STAY AWAY, and have to be aware of where Troy is at all times.


Troy is kinda like how Casey Hampton was. You may not see alot of stats from him, or hear his name mentioned, but TRUST me, Opposing teams Offenses were quite aware of Casey. Same again for a WR like Wallace, even when the play is NOT called for him, opposing Defenses HAVE to allow, and pay extra attention for him. Troy is EXTREMELY valuable. And the BEST Statistic is...look at the Steelers win/loss record with Troy, as opposed to when he is NOT playing.


Look that answer up, and you will see how utterly STUPID your statement of Troy Polumalu is the MOST Overrated Steeler of all time. Cause that is outright Stupid.

SnakeEyes43
10-21-2013, 02:34 PM
I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps.

Agree 1,000,000 percent!

Troy, I'm on the fence about. Obviously he's nowhere near the strong safety he once was. He's a different type of player now. We need better safety play and he's not helping the cause.

BUT some part of me can't help but smile when he's flying around, making big hits, and getting those quick tackles at the LOS.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-21-2013, 02:50 PM
If you look at my past threads, you will see I was the first to come up with players we MIGHT look into trading IF our season continued to go bad. And Troy was one of them. However, your opinion on Troy being overrated is so very very wrong. In fact, yesterday Troy might have been our best player on Defense. He made SEVERAL tackles at, or behind the line of scrimmage.
And what you fail to understand is that even when Troy is NOT Tackling a player or making Interceptions is what he does that the stat sheet does NOT show. Troy prevents any opposing offense from getting too comfortable out there. His presence allows OTHERS to make plays cause opposing offenses STAY AWAY, and have to be aware of where Troy is at all times.


Troy is kinda like how Casey Hampton was. You may not see alot of stats from him, or hear his name mentioned, but TRUST me, Opposing teams Offenses were quite aware of Casey. Same again for a WR like Wallace, even when the play is NOT called for him, opposing Defenses HAVE to allow, and pay extra attention for him. Troy is EXTREMELY valuable. And the BEST Statistic is...look at the Steelers win/loss record with Troy, as opposed to when he is NOT playing.


Look that answer up, and you will see how utterly STUPID your statement of Troy Polumalu is the MOST Overrated Steeler of all time. Cause that is outright Stupid.

Ok some of our fans in the past said he was the best player in the NFL....Not the best defensive player in the NFL but the best player in the NFL.......That is why I say he is over-rated.....Troy in his prime was one of the best at his position but his best days are behind him.....

Ok comparing a NT to a safety is just stupid........NT's are not supposed to rack up stats but a safety is......I prefer a safety like Ed Reed who consistently racked up INT's....Troy has 30 career INT's which isn't bad but still doesn't sniff Reed's career total.....

I know some fans always get butt hurt when anything negative is said about Troy but deal with it he is over-rated.....Best player on the field for the defense yesterday is just laughable....So what he made some tackles....Great big ****ing deal.......

questforSB7
10-21-2013, 03:01 PM
Ok some of our fans in the past said he was the best player in the NFL....Not the best defensive player in the NFL but the best player in the NFL.......That is why I say he is over-rated.....Troy in his prime was one of the best at his position but his best days are behind him.....

Ok comparing a NT to a safety is just stupid........NT's are not supposed to rack up stats but a safety is......I prefer a safety like Ed Reed who consistently racked up INT's....Troy has 30 career INT's which isn't bad but still doesn't sniff Reed's career total.....

I know some fans always get butt hurt when anything negative is said about Troy but deal with it he is over-rated.....Best player on the field for the defense yesterday is just laughable....So what he made some tackles....Great big ****ing deal.......




You are looking at Ed Reeds total Interceptions, but are not looking at the fact how many Big Plays Ed has given up by always going for those picks. Also the type of Defensive centerfield position that the Ravens always put him in. As Opposed to Troy, who was moved around all the time BECAUSE of his versatility and great Athleticism, which Reed did NOT have. Yes Ed is great in his way, a Hall of famer. But Troy made offenses think even WITHOUT making a play on the field, as where Ed didn't cause Ed was ALWAYS in his Centerfield position. Troy could be there one second, then all of a sudden be in your backfield blowing up a play before it happens. That is something Ed Reed could never do.



No Troy is not the same player he was 5 years ago.But he still has sub 4.3 speed, and is Instinctually one of the best SS still in the league. And I STILL say that if he were on Denver, he would be the difference in them making the Super Bowl, and Winning it. I am NOT Opposed to trading Troy, if the price was right. But, if you, or others say that Troy is 32, and the BEST we could get for him is a 4th rounder...( Maybe )....then that is sir I am sorry to say pure stupidity.



Troy is a DIFFERENCE MAKER!! Like I said, check the Steelers record with him, and without him.....Nuff said!!!!

steelchamp204
10-21-2013, 03:10 PM
Troy is still very valuable to this team. Of course he doesn't play at the level he did a few years back but he is still a very good player compared to other teams safeties in the NFL. Yes, he had a few bone headed plays yesterday but he also had some very good plays yesterday. If you take away Troy and stick someone else back there with Clark, our secondary would be in trouble.

Why isnt anyone calling Ike out?? Another key 3rd down and he gives up another big play. Thank god we have Cortez Allen.

I also think Troy played pretty damn good yesterday being that he played LB pretty much all game it seems. The defense as a whole did very well as they only play 2 dlinemen almost every snap.

Thomas is improving drastically week after week which is great to see. This rookie class has been pretty well and contributed nicely this season despite the Steelers record.

DanRooney
10-21-2013, 03:23 PM
You guys are on crack. I see Troy lined up in run support all the time and our secondary is playing fine.

Who they need to phase out is Evander Hood who has been nothing but an average player in his best games. He's **** poor in run support and has a 'motor' that gets him no where near the quarterback and doesn't open lanes. Tomlin was too embarrassed by his poor draft choice that he let him ride it out. Heyward was always the better fit for the team. He was the prototypical 3-4 end. Hood was suited for a 4-3 DT coming out of college.

Rocky#20
10-21-2013, 04:01 PM
The guy that gets never gets any national attention, but is a Pro-Bowl type linebacker is Timmons. Yesterday he had 18 tackles against the Ravens and no one in the media mentions it.

steelcity73
10-21-2013, 11:24 PM
I just find it comical that Troy receives so much praise still...He doesn't do squat but some fans just love seeing him fly around with his hair....lol I would have laughed if the Ravens had went for two and scored after Troy's bonehead penalty yesterday.....Still on facebook all I read is some of ours praising him for it....I swear its annoying...I just wish the same fans that constantly knock Ben would knock the worthless Troy Polamalu.....Him being healthy still hasn't led to any INT's or fumbles....Oh but he laid out a Jet a few weeks ago and he tried to lay out Tandon Doss yesterday but Troy seem to do do more damage to himself..........lol I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps...Just wish we had another young safety to also phase out Troy......I can't wait until Troy retires or cut due to his salary....The most over-rated Steeler ever Troy Polamalu........
I love reading your posts, are you a Pittsburgh native? You should update your photo, is #10 our waterboy?

steelcity73
10-21-2013, 11:27 PM
2nd best player on the whole team, only because Ben is the Offense!!!

steelcity73
10-21-2013, 11:43 PM
If you need me to lend you some money to get a new jersey just give me a call. I'd go with Bettis or Ward. Then in two years you can get either a Jones or Bell jersey, depending on who you want to bash next!

Real Deal Steel
10-22-2013, 10:09 AM
Why isnt anyone calling Ike out?? Another key 3rd down and he gives up another big play. Thank god we have Cortez Allen.

That's a good question. LOL

LatrobePA
10-22-2013, 11:14 AM
I have to admit I was down on Troy the past couple years but this year so far he's been solid!

Stone
10-22-2013, 03:57 PM
I guess the point of the original post was this:

If you put all of his "super plays" on one side of the scale and all of his "out of position" plays on the other side of the scale.....where does the scale tilt?

Steel4LifeMike
10-22-2013, 04:25 PM
I think Troy when healthy is still a force on this team. I know that he has been off the field more lately than on. I think Troy was meant to wear a Steeler's Jersey for life. I couldn't image him on any other team. He has done alot for this team and has always represented him self as a true role model. Troy is a Steeler guy. He is having a good year so far and is showing some flashes of his younger healthier self. Knowing Troy I think he would give the Steelers a hometown discount and play his remaining years as a Steeler. Just my 2 cents.

NYCsteelersfan
10-22-2013, 06:26 PM
I just find it comical that Troy receives so much praise still...He doesn't do squat but some fans just love seeing him fly around with his hair....lol I would have laughed if the Ravens had went for two and scored after Troy's bonehead penalty yesterday.....Still on facebook all I read is some of ours praising him for it....I swear its annoying...I just wish the same fans that constantly knock Ben would knock the worthless Troy Polamalu.....Him being healthy still hasn't led to any INT's or fumbles....Oh but he laid out a Jet a few weeks ago and he tried to lay out Tandon Doss yesterday but Troy seem to do do more damage to himself..........lol I'm done with Ryan Clark as well and I'm glad Shamarko is getting more snaps...Just wish we had another young safety to also phase out Troy......I can't wait until Troy retires or cut due to his salary....The most over-rated Steeler ever Troy Polamalu........

I view Polamalu as a Ray Lewis. He's definitely overrated, but he's also an impact player that forces the other team to plan accordingly.

Get7With7
10-22-2013, 06:31 PM
Troy can still play, but he's definitely not as effective as he was 3 or 4 years ago. I think he needs to play more as a traditional safety rather than always being up around the LOS.

teeceemadison
10-22-2013, 06:49 PM
he is playing at a very high level at this point.....

NeilPatrickBanana
10-23-2013, 10:30 AM
I don't know what anyone is seeing to lead them to say anything negative about Troy this year... The Steelers are quietly playing more and more Cover-6 with 6 DBs on the field. People picked up on it more in the Ravens game, because they Ravens worked a lot of no huddle... making the cover 6 essentially the base package that week....but it's been trending in this direction for weeks. Troy ALLOWS you to do this because he can basically fill the role of a LBer on running downs.

If you were grading performance on a week to week basis this year... Troy would grade at the top of the list along with Antonio, Decastro, and Ike (Cam and Bell have only started a couple games, but in those games they have both been excellent).

I dont know what "overrated" means... in regards to individual players (without the context - rating).... but Troy is playing very good football this year, and is a key cog in the wheel.... I dont know if that's overrating him according to some... but if it is... they are wrong.

I hope they play more of their cover 6.... it allows Ike to be aggressive on one side of the field, with help over the top, while allowing them to zone scheme the other side, also with help over the top.... and allows troy to roam freely, and wreak havoc....as long as the their hybrid 4 man front OLB-DL-DL-OLB can continue to control the line...

K Train
10-23-2013, 10:34 AM
Troy has been great, which is expected when hes been playin healthy

TarlsQtr
10-23-2013, 12:32 PM
I don't know what anyone is seeing to lead them to say anything negative about Troy this year... The Steelers are quietly playing more and more Cover-6 with 6 DBs on the field. People picked up on it more in the Ravens game, because they Ravens worked a lot of no huddle... making the cover 6 essentially the base package that week....but it's been trending in this direction for weeks. Troy ALLOWS you to do this because he can basically fill the role of a LBer on running downs.

If you were grading performance on a week to week basis this year... Troy would grade at the top of the list along with Antonio, Decastro, and Ike (Cam and Bell have only started a couple games, but in those games they have both been excellent).

I dont know what "overrated" means... in regards to individual players (without the context - rating).... but Troy is playing very good football this year, and is a key cog in the wheel.... I dont know if that's overrating him according to some... but if it is... they are wrong.

I hope they play more of their cover 6.... it allows Ike to be aggressive on one side of the field, with help over the top, while allowing them to zone scheme the other side, also with help over the top.... and allows troy to roam freely, and wreak havoc....as long as the their hybrid 4 man front OLB-DL-DL-OLB can continue to control the line...

Bingo. Troy is the epitome of "making people around him better." When he is on the field, there is so much more freedom to get creative in playcalling. People still have the memory of injured playing at 70 percent Troy in their heads.

NeilPatrickBanana
10-23-2013, 12:56 PM
Bingo. Troy is the epitome of "making people around him better." When he is on the field, there is so much more freedom to get creative in playcalling. People still have the memory of injured playing at 70 percent Troy in their heads.

watch me go way off topic...
weeeeeeee....

I've been hard on Jarvis for lacking any sort of consistent pressure.... BUT... He's been instrumental in the hybrid cover 6 stuff. His ability to put his hand down on the outside, but still control his gap, is a key cog in the effectiveness of that package (that generally leaves only 1 ILB on the field, while Troy freelances as the other). Since I've been critical of Jarvis on multiple occasions, it's only right to point out the areas where he is a key player and successful.
(he still needs to get to the QB more)

steelchamp204
10-23-2013, 01:25 PM
Fans say how we wont really appreciate Ben like we should until he is gone, well the same thing can be said for Troy.

teeceemadison
10-23-2013, 05:45 PM
well if this cover 6 is being used, it sure as hell didnt work too well on the ravens final drive, in fact, the whole game, all that short crap over the middle was open all day.....that is so frustrating....but, i will take troy over anyone at this point...

TarlsQtr
10-23-2013, 05:57 PM
well if this cover 6 is being used, it sure as hell didnt work too well on the ravens final drive, in fact, the whole game, all that short crap over the middle was open all day.....that is so frustrating....but, i will take troy over anyone at this point...

The other team gets paid too. One TD and 16 points is nothing to whine about.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

LevonKirkland99
10-23-2013, 09:55 PM
What highlight reel plays has he really made lately?.........I can't wait until he is gone.....

hater :) Troy is playing light out this year


Troy is more valuable than Wallace

Nolrog
10-24-2013, 06:50 AM
So much Troy hatred. This defense is a lot different without him.

teeceemadison
10-24-2013, 10:35 AM
So much Troy hatred. This defense is a lot different without him.

man, you got that right.....with teams prepping so much for him, and basically staying away from wherever he is at, kind of limits splash plays, but he has spent more time in the opposing backfield this year than i think i have ever seen....since he is playing so close to the line now anyway......

teeceemadison
10-24-2013, 10:35 AM
besides, if i may paraphrase in my best digital message board john facenda voice...."great players arent always great, they're just great when they have to be"

Stone
10-24-2013, 03:25 PM
I guess I expected at least a couple people to talk about the original topic of whether Troy's "incredible" plays still make up for his "bonehead" plays? What we've had is a cyber-argument....Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks.

Am I on a Browns forum:lol:

teeceemadison
10-25-2013, 12:17 PM
I guess I expected at least a couple people to talk about the original topic of whether Troy's "incredible" plays still make up for his "bonehead" plays? What we've had is a cyber-argument....Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks.

Am I on a Browns forum:lol:

i rarely see any truly bonehead plays from troy.....

TarlsQtr
10-25-2013, 12:31 PM
What highlight reel plays has he really made lately?.........I can't wait until he is gone.....

I think this is the basis for the criticism of Troy (other than the legitimate he gets hurt a lot variety).

You cannot judge football players merely on "highlight reel" plays. Casey, for most of his career, was one of the more important pieces on D but never/rarely made the highlight reel. Same can be said about Aaron Smith. Heck, even Ike. Another example is William Gay, who is having a very nice season for us in spite of the wailing and gnashing of teeth when he was signed.

SnakeEyes43
10-25-2013, 02:41 PM
I think this is the basis for the criticism of Troy (other than the legitimate he gets hurt a lot variety).

You cannot judge football players merely on "highlight reel" plays. Casey, for most of his career, was one of the more important pieces on D but never/rarely made the highlight reel. Same can be said about Aaron Smith. Heck, even Ike. Another example is William Gay, who is having a very nice season for us in spite of the wailing and gnashing of teeth when he was signed.

Vince Williams is also quietly improving each and every week. For a rookie, I think he's played pretty solid.

WindyCityShaker
10-25-2013, 05:53 PM
I guess I expected at least a couple people to talk about the original topic of whether Troy's "incredible" plays still make up for his "bonehead" plays? What we've had is a cyber-argument....Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks......Troy's the best.....Troy sucks.

Am I on a Browns forum:lol:

Whether the term boneheaded, or out of position as someone earlier stated, I don't think either apply here. I believe that Troy is rarely out of position. Sure the play may go to the area he just vacated, but that wasn't because Troy made a mental error, it's because he tried to impact that play from a different perspective, because he's attempting to attack from a different, albeit sometimes more risky approach. He is allowed that flexibility. We might be noticing the times when he isn't there more because Clark, while never a great safety on his own merit, used to cover well for Troy. This year not only is Clark's play seriously lacking, but he is not such a great safety valve anymore either.

Troy will never show up in an instructional video on how to tackle, how to play disciplined defense, etc. I think Troy has been superb, and those "bonehead" plays being referred to I guess I must have blinders on. Like I said is he taking more risks, possibly, but he still plays at a high enough level where those risks pay off as often as they don't. It isn't only measured by int's, passes defended, etc. Watch any game tape of Troy vs. P Manning, and you tell me that maybe the smartest qb to ever play isn't worried about 43.

I liken Troy's "style" of play, the way he takes risks and such, freelances, to the way Ben plays QB.....high risk, high reward.

ChucktownSteeler
10-25-2013, 06:02 PM
Vince Williams is also quietly improving each and every week. For a rookie, I think he's played pretty solid.

I think this year's draft class is contributing nicely and maybe earlier than any class as a whole I can remember.

teeceemadison
10-26-2013, 10:15 PM
Whether the term boneheaded, or out of position as someone earlier stated, I don't think either apply here. I believe that Troy is rarely out of position. Sure the play may go to the area he just vacated, but that wasn't because Troy made a mental error, it's because he tried to impact that play from a different perspective, because he's attempting to attack from a different, albeit sometimes more risky approach. He is allowed that flexibility. We might be noticing the times when he isn't there more because Clark, while never a great safety on his own merit, used to cover well for Troy. This year not only is Clark's play seriously lacking, but he is not such a great safety valve anymore either.

Troy will never show up in an instructional video on how to tackle, how to play disciplined defense, etc. I think Troy has been superb, and those "bonehead" plays being referred to I guess I must have blinders on. Like I said is he taking more risks, possibly, but he still plays at a high enough level where those risks pay off as often as they don't. It isn't only measured by int's, passes defended, etc. Watch any game tape of Troy vs. P Manning, and you tell me that maybe the smartest qb to ever play isn't worried about 43.

I liken Troy's "style" of play, the way he takes risks and such, freelances, to the way Ben plays QB.....high risk, high reward.

well said.

Steeldriven
10-27-2013, 08:58 PM
If you look at my past threads, you will see I was the first to come up with players we MIGHT look into trading IF our season continued to go bad. And Troy was one of them. However, your opinion on Troy being overrated is so very very wrong. In fact, yesterday Troy might have been our best player on Defense. He made SEVERAL tackles at, or behind the line of scrimmage.
And what you fail to understand is that even when Troy is NOT Tackling a player or making Interceptions is what he does that the stat sheet does NOT show. Troy prevents any opposing offense from getting too comfortable out there. His presence allows OTHERS to make plays cause opposing offenses STAY AWAY, and have to be aware of where Troy is at all times.


Troy is kinda like how Casey Hampton was. You may not see alot of stats from him, or hear his name mentioned, but TRUST me, Opposing teams Offenses were quite aware of Casey. Same again for a WR like Wallace, even when the play is NOT called for him, opposing Defenses HAVE to allow, and pay extra attention for him. Troy is EXTREMELY valuable. And the BEST Statistic is...look at the Steelers win/loss record with Troy, as opposed to when he is NOT playing.


Look that answer up, and you will see how utterly STUPID your statement of Troy Polumalu is the MOST Overrated Steeler of all time. Cause that is outright Stupid.



And that's the truth! With some cheese on it.

Speeed
10-28-2013, 07:46 AM
Troy possesses all of the intangibles that cannot be coached. You can coach tackling, position, etc., but you can't coach football sense. Sure, Troy can do all of that as well as anyone, but he has the uncanny ability to sense the dynamics of any given play and react instinctively.

Stone
11-03-2013, 05:35 PM
So far in this game, Troy is the main reason we are losing! He is guessing poorly and out of position consistantly.

Clevelandsux
11-03-2013, 05:52 PM
Agreed. Troy is costing us big time in this game.

teeceemadison
11-03-2013, 07:50 PM
Agreed. Troy is costing us big time in this game. wasnt for his strip, we get no points, and dont get back in the game.....

cmerrifield
11-03-2013, 07:54 PM
he isnt worth 10 million of a 125 million cap, he needs to go.

teeceemadison
11-03-2013, 08:04 PM
he isnt worth 10 million of a 125 million cap, he needs to go.

yes, because one game, in which he caused the only turnover for points, he career is over....im sure clark and thomas are just ready to take over....

cmerrifield
11-03-2013, 08:09 PM
yes, because one game, in which he caused the only turnover for points, he career is over....im sure clark and thomas are just ready to take over....

Nope Clark will be gone too. For 10 million dollars a year, a safety should be in the top 10 in the NFL for picks. Since its Troy, he should have more big plays, sacks, strips, tackles behind the line of scrimmage, etc. He is valuable, but not 10 million valuable.

teeceemadison
11-03-2013, 08:11 PM
Nope Clark will be gone too. For 10 million dollars a year, a safety should be in the top 10 in the NFL for picks. Since its Troy, he should have more big plays, sacks, strips, tackles behind the line of scrimmage, etc. He is valuable, but not 10 million valuable.

have you watched the last four weeks? during that time troy was stationed UP AT THE LINE, and was in the backfield making tackles, stuffing plays and pressuring the qb....so they moved him back to deep coverage most of this game and they ran right thru the steelers today.....he is one man, he cant be everywhere....

LatrobePA
11-03-2013, 08:13 PM
Another game in which this team was totally unprepared. Great job "Rooney rule" Tomlin!

Nolrog
11-03-2013, 08:24 PM
Nope Clark will be gone too.

Clark will be gone becaues it looks like he's done. Try still has a lot of gas in the tank.

Nolrog
11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Another game in which this team was totally unprepared. Great job "Rooney rule" Tomlin!

Trying to figure out what this has to do with Troy.

TarlsQtr
11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Troy has been very good this season but today not so much. Even if you throw today out the window, as well as Troy has played this season, he eats up too much cap.

LatrobePA
11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Trying to figure out what this has to do with Troy.

Nothing really I just wanted to say it.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-03-2013, 08:33 PM
Troy has been very good this season but today not so much. Even if you throw today out the window, as well as Troy has played this season, he eats up too much cap.

Facts

Real Deal Steel
11-04-2013, 10:35 AM
Trying to figure out what this has to do with Troy.

Well, we can always go back to how Terrell Pryor just ran past Troy like Troy was standing still. We can start there??

ChucktownSteeler
11-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Probably his last season here. He looked gimpy at the end of the game, so who knows. He may be done.

Nolrog
11-04-2013, 01:18 PM
Nothing really I just wanted to say it.

LOL. OK then.

Nolrog
11-04-2013, 01:19 PM
Well, we can always go back to how Terrell Pryor just ran past Troy like Troy was standing still. We can start there??

You mean while he was being blocked by the WR?

Nolrog
11-04-2013, 01:20 PM
Troy has been very good this season but today not so much. Even if you throw today out the window, as well as Troy has played this season, he eats up too much cap.

The problem is that with so many restructures for him, the cap hit would be too much to take if they were to let him go (or trade him.) They don't have the room to be able to that (all the restructures would accelerate into the current cap when it happened.)

NeilPatrickBanana
11-04-2013, 02:14 PM
The problem is that with so many restructures for him, the cap hit would be too much to take if they were to let him go (or trade him.) They don't have the room to be able to that (all the restructures would accelerate into the current cap when it happened.)

Sorry, but that's completely wrong.

Troy will be going into the last year of his deal... so their is no cap acceleration. They will completely save the 8.25 million in base salary by cutting him (the prorated bonus money for the final year will stay on the cap (about 2.6 million).

Keeping Troy (as is) = 10.8 cap hit
Cutting Troy = 8.25 cap savings and 2.6 in dead money
Extending Troy = unknown... but logically would result in reduced 2014 cap charge

There is NO WAY Troy plays out the final year of his deal as it...

He is either to be cut (save 8.25)
or
He gets an extension and the guaranteed money reduces his present cap hit (save ????)

the biggest cap savings/potential cuts are:

Troy : 8.25 saved if cut
Ike : 7.0
Heath : 6.0
Pouncey : 4.1
(Levi Brown : 6.25 but he's not even included in the current cap overtures...)

Nolrog
11-04-2013, 06:32 PM
Yes, I think you're correct Neil. I thought they had restructured him multiple times already, but maybe it was only once. So cutting him would save a bunch of money.

Dean Denton
11-05-2013, 11:09 PM
I think he would be better served with better talent around him. I hope our new FS takes over for Clarke next year, this year if he were ready. Gay needs to go and I'm starting to question Ike. Troy has never been a world beater in coverage but he contributes in other ways at a high level and still does. However I don't know if he's worth top dollar anymore.

LevonKirkland99
11-05-2013, 11:22 PM
If we cut Troy, then we have no defense...Careful what you wish for

LevonKirkland99
11-05-2013, 11:25 PM
Well, we can always go back to how Terrell Pryor just ran past Troy like Troy was standing still. We can start there??

Mmm, that play wasn't Troy's fault...Pryer was faster than Troy, Ike and Clark....So you can't single out Troy.

But, without Troy next year, we WILL be the laughing stock of the league

questforSB7
11-05-2013, 11:37 PM
Mmm, that play wasn't Troy's fault...Pryer was faster than Troy, Ike and Clark....So you can't single out Troy.

But, without Troy next year, we WILL be the laughing stock of the league





Dude, we gave up over 650 yards and 55 points to a New England team that hasn't even come close to half that against any other team. And are on pace to set a All-time Steeler record for points allowed. We are already the Laughing stock of the league. Troy will be in his final year of his deal, which would make him really easy to trade. I'm not saying we give him away, but offer him up at Draft time and see what we can get. I'd do the same with Pouncey...maybe offer him to Miami, and see what they will give us. Cause this team has WAY too many areas of need to have just 6 to 7 picks. We need around 11 or 12, and at least 6 in the first three rounds.

Dean Denton
11-06-2013, 01:12 AM
This secondary and defense are being laughter at. Turn on any sports talk show and they are being mocked. They have been called old and slow for a few years and their production confirms it. I wish Troy was young and spry but he's not. With he could play forever but he's fading and breaking down. Oakland might give us two picks for him. Might be worth it. We'll never replace him but we need to get younger and faster. Tired of gettin laughed at and this team should be too. 3 years no home playoff games...

LatrobePA
11-06-2013, 06:29 AM
If we cut Troy, then we have no defense...Careful what you wish for

Dick runs too much of the D thru Troy. When Troy is on the D is good, when he's off we allow tommy boy and his no name WR to pick us apart. It's that simple. Troy is dicks backbone!!

Nolrog
11-06-2013, 10:18 AM
If we cut Troy, then we have no defense...Careful what you wish for

55 points and 600+ yards. . . . we have no defense now.

Real Deal Steel
11-06-2013, 10:22 AM
Mmm, that play wasn't Troy's fault...Pryer was faster than Troy, Ike and Clark....So you can't single out Troy.

But, without Troy next year, we WILL be the laughing stock of the league

Are you serious??? We just got 55 hung on us. It can't get any worse!! Troy needs to be gone. He can't run anymore. That is one position we can definitely fix in the off-season. Troy is a slow LB playing safety now. That's how bad it's gotten. Stop being in love with the player and look at what he can and can't do now. He's done. And not worth the cap space.

Real Deal Steel
11-06-2013, 10:24 AM
Mmm, that play wasn't Troy's fault...Pryer was faster than Troy, Ike and Clark....So you can't single out Troy.

But, without Troy next year, we WILL be the laughing stock of the league

Troy saw the whole play develope, saw Pryor coming, and Pryor ran past him. How was that not his fault??? Troy's running skills have diminished. He's done.

steelchamp204
11-06-2013, 11:23 AM
I would be in favor if Troy didnt come back next season or something happened with a trade.

This is what happens with the favorite players on the team. We hold ON TO THEM TO LONG. This team will never get out of cap hell if Colbert can't drop some balls and get rid of players and think from a business/long term on the field stand point. This team is going to be bad for at least a few more seasons with the Tomlins/Haleys/Colberts running the show.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-06-2013, 12:16 PM
I would be in favor if Troy didnt come back next season or something happened with a trade.

This is what happens with the favorite players on the team. We hold ON TO THEM TO LONG. This team will never get out of cap hell if Colbert can't drop some balls and get rid of players and think from a business/long term on the field stand point. This team is going to be bad for at least a few more seasons with the Tomlins/Haleys/Colberts running the show.

A 2 time super bowl coach, an OC who had our franchise QB playing the best and most consistent football of his career before injury, and a GM who built a team that contended for a decade.... yea, that's the problem....

People should just realize this is the natural cycle of things...
Long Term Contender
Aging core players
Lack of elite draft picks
Cap Implications of keeping said contender together

it inevitably leads to a down period...

So here we are... a team starting A LOT of very young players also being heavily impacted by injuries at key starting positions throughout the year... the playing time for all these young players already means we are headed in the right direction.

With a franchise QB in place and expected growth from the youngest oline in the NFL... it's easier to expect a quicker turn around... especially when we add an elite draft pick... for the first time in 15 years...

it's going to take another year to clean up the cap mess... and the defense will need to be overhauled schematically (in my opinion)... but things are not as dreary as our record indicates. IMO.

we are just a young team, with cap problems, that's not good YET.

steelchamp204
11-06-2013, 12:51 PM
A 2 time super bowl coach, an OC who had our franchise QB playing the best and most consistent football of his career before injury, and a GM who built a team that contended for a decade.... yea, that's the problem....

People should just realize this is the natural cycle of things...
Long Term Contender
Aging core players
Lack of elite draft picks
Cap Implications of keeping said contender together

it inevitably leads to a down period...

So here we are... a team starting A LOT of very young players also being heavily impacted by injuries at key starting positions throughout the year... the playing time for all these young players already means we are headed in the right direction.

With a franchise QB in place and expected growth from the youngest oline in the NFL... it's easier to expect a quicker turn around... especially when we add an elite draft pick... for the first time in 15 years...

it's going to take another year to clean up the cap mess... and the defense will need to be overhauled schematically (in my opinion)... but things are not as dreary as our record indicates. IMO.

we are just a young team, with cap problems, that's not good YET.

Tomlin worries me due to- Lack of preperation and "detail" as he would say

Haley worries me due to- Every game starts out slow, and then they have to play catch up.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Tomlin worries me due to- Lack of preperation and "detail" as he would say

I think that's a cliche... how do YOU specifically see a "lack of preparation"... how does a lack of preparation look different than a lack of talent? Or when is a lack of preparation really just a lack of experience (on the player)?

Judging head coaching is an act of futility if you judge anywhere outside the realm of wins/losses. Tomlin deserves PLENTY of blame for this seasons failures (even though some of it was inevitable in my opinion). But there is a difference between that reflecting on his performance THIS YEAR, and it reflecting on his abilities overall as a coach.

that's just my opinion... otherwise it's simply too easy to just make up whatever you want (regarding the head coach), and arbitrarily point to something and say, "see!"



Haley worries me due to- Every game starts out slow, and then they have to play catch up.

I didn't want Haley hired. I'm not a fan of his.

But I don't believe the first 9 games last year were a fluke... if our offensive line can grow and mature, Bell continues to show flashes of being a heavy totter... and we continue to build our WR talent... I think Ben+Haley is plenty good to get right back into things.

My only long term concern is becoming effective in the red zone... something Ben has struggled with regardless of OC... but I think Bell can help change that...

steelchamp204
11-06-2013, 01:29 PM
I think that's a cliche... how do YOU specifically see a "lack of preparation"... how does a lack of preparation look different than a lack of talent? Or when is a lack of preparation really just a lack of experience (on the player)?

Judging head coaching is an act of futility if you judge anywhere outside the realm of wins/losses. Tomlin deserves PLENTY of blame for this seasons failures (even though some of it was inevitable in my opinion). But there is a difference between that reflecting on his performance THIS YEAR, and it reflecting on his abilities overall as a coach.

that's just my opinion... otherwise it's simply too easy to just make up whatever you want (regarding the head coach), and arbitrarily point to something and say, "see!"




I didn't want Haley hired. I'm not a fan of his.

But I don't believe the first 9 games last year were a fluke... if our offensive line can grow and mature, Bell continues to show flashes of being a heavy totter... and we continue to build our WR talent... I think Ben+Haley is plenty good to get right back into things.

My only long term concern is becoming effective in the red zone... something Ben has struggled with regardless of OC... but I think Bell can help change that...

I just think this team is outcoached to a degree from Tomlin view. To many games this season, the team looks lost, it doesnt show a identity. I'm not saying I want Tomlin fired. Give him another 4 years. But if this trend continues, then you have to move on. I don't think it is "lack of talent" either.

I dont think Haleys season last year was a fluke either when the team started out hot. My main concern is he doesnt stretch the field enough. I know Ben doesnt have time in the pocket, but sometimes, you have to take some chances. I'd really like to see Moye start from here on out to see if he will be our big target here on out. If not, then they better think draft and the kid out of Vandy.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-06-2013, 02:24 PM
I just think this team is outcoached to a degree from Tomlin view. To many games this season, the team looks lost, it doesnt show a identity.

No offense meant... but i find those kind of comments to be no less cliche than coach speak in a press conference... i honestly don't even know what that stuff means. it just sounds like complaining to me.




I'm not saying I want Tomlin fired. Give him another 4 years. But if this trend continues, then you have to move on. I don't think it is "lack of talent" either.

this is where I'd rather argue... because while you can't really objectively point to a "lack of identity" or "looking lost"... you CAN point to a lack of talent...

Casey Hampton -> Steve McClendon = downgrade
Aaaron Smith -> Ziggy Hood = downgrade
Farrior/Timmons/Foote -> Timmons/Williams/Garvin = downgrade
Lewis/Gay -> Allen/Gay = downgrade
Wallace/Brown/Ward -> Brown/Sanders/Cotch = downgrade
Heath Pre ACL -> Heath Post ACL = downgrade
29-32 Yrd old Clark -> Present Clark = downgrade
Keisel Prime -> Keisel Old = downgrade
Oline 08-11 -> Oline 11-13 = downgrade
RB 08-11 -> RB 12-13 pre Bell = downgrade
i could go on...

There are a ton of guys developing who should upgrade these areas over the rest of this season and next as they develop... yea, we had some big draft misses that left a gap in the pipeline... oh well, that **** happens to everyone... no one drafts perfectly.

but the reality is that we have a roster with a massive influx of players 25 and younger that are JUST scratching the surface... just beginning to get starting experience...


I dont think Haleys season last year was a fluke either when the team started out hot. My main concern is he doesnt stretch the field enough.

I agree... but I also expect that will change as the oline improves... keeping Ben alive is a priority.



I know Ben doesnt have time in the pocket, but sometimes, you have to take some chances. I'd really like to see Moye start from here on out to see if he will be our big target here on out. If not, then they better think draft and the kid out of Vandy.

Sammy Watkins with our top 10 pick

TarlsQtr
11-06-2013, 03:56 PM
Sammy Watkins with our top 10 pick

OK, NPB, a quick question.

I have seen you name Sammy Watkins as the dream pick several times. I am not arguing that per se.I like him as well.

However, you have also said many times that AB is a true number one receiver. Then why Sammy as a first rounder? Sure, we need other receivers and Sanders is probably gone but doesn't it then stand to reason that we use the 1st round pick on one of many other holes and pick a WR later? On a team that is young and will struggle anyway, if we are to believe your assessment of AB then a WR corps of AB/Wheaton/Cotch/Moye/3rd round rookie is not that bad.

It just seems a little inconsistent to say AB is a number one and then go out and draft a number one with all of the other areas of need...

WindyCityShaker
11-06-2013, 04:21 PM
OK, NPB, a quick question.

I have seen you name Sammy Watkins as the dream pick several times. I am not arguing that per se.I like him as well.

However, you have also said many times that AB is a true number one receiver. Then why Sammy as a first rounder? Sure, we need other receivers and Sanders is probably gone but doesn't it then stand to reason that we use the 1st round pick on one of many other holes and pick a WR later? On a team that is young and will struggle anyway, if we are to believe your assessment of AB then a WR corps of AB/Wheaton/Cotch/Moye/3rd round rookie is not that bad.

It just seems a little inconsistent to say AB is a number one and then go out and draft a number one with all of the other areas of need...

I know I wasn't asked but I'll just throw an opinion in there.

Sammy would take over where Wallace left off (playbook wise). He's not as fast (but faster than brown), he's big-"ish" receiver, he's got good hands too.

Sammy could either work down the field leaving Brown to roam underneath pretty much unfettered, or you could run crossing routes all day and have breakaway capability. Minus the elite speed, I think he excels over Wallace in every way, and you remember what we had when we had BOTH Wallace and Brown right?

I don't know much about route trees and such, I just see a playmaker. Maybe a Julio/Harvin hybrid?

Just my 2 cents.

WindyCityShaker
11-06-2013, 04:31 PM
On a team that is young and will struggle anyway, if we are to believe your assessment of AB then a WR corps of AB/Wheaton/Cotch/Moye/3rd round rookie is not that bad.

Oh and to add, I'm not even sure I'd go the Watkins route have to see how the rest of the seaon pans out.

While the WR lineup you reference above is somewhat workable, with better protection and the threat of a running game a lineup of Watkins/Brown/Wheaton/Moye could very well be unstoppable.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-06-2013, 04:53 PM
OK, NPB, a quick question.

I have seen you name Sammy Watkins as the dream pick several times. I am not arguing that per se.I like him as well.

However, you have also said many times that AB is a true number one receiver. Then why Sammy as a first rounder? Sure, we need other receivers and Sanders is probably gone but doesn't it then stand to reason that we use the 1st round pick on one of many other holes and pick a WR later? On a team that is young and will struggle anyway, if we are to believe your assessment of AB then a WR corps of AB/Wheaton/Cotch/Moye/3rd round rookie is not that bad.

The same reason that Atlanta went after Julio when they had Roddy.
The same reason that Denver nabbed Welker, when they had Thomas and Decker.

I've been very clear that I believe Brown is PERFORMING like a #1 WR, in a #1 WR role... I believe that is an Objective statement based on the hard numbers. I've also been clear that I don't believe AB is one of the FEW elite WRs... and he never will be.

that doesn't mean that going after the next Julio Jones doesn't significantly improve our team. I think very highly of Watkins... and wouldn't spend our high 1st on any other WR.


It just seems a little inconsistent to say AB is a number one and then go out and draft a number one with all of the other areas of need...

I think you have a slight misinterpretation of my opinion... or i haven't been clear about the bigger picture and my opinions on position value.

With a top 10 pick, im only drafting QB, WR, LT, or the most dominant of dominant pass rusher....
LT scares me more than WR from a bust/success ratio in that range of the draft.

It's sammy watkins for me

NeilPatrickBanana
11-06-2013, 04:57 PM
I don't know much about route trees and such, I just see a playmaker. Maybe a Julio/Harvin hybrid?

Just my 2 cents.

i'd remove the Harvin comparison... harvin is a rare, rare bird... Sammy isn't THAT dynamic in the open field. But Sammy is the total package.. a legit, do everything, run every route, game breaking WR... Julio is a perfect comparison, unless you want to get anal about height/weight... in terms of talent, style of play, and skills... Watkins is very comparable to Julio... and the type of WR we've pretty much NEVER had

K Train
11-06-2013, 08:01 PM
I love Watkins. He's been so impressive this season. I'd be so happy with Watkins/clowney/Matthews in the first round this year. All of them are cornerstone pieces in their own way

Big T
11-07-2013, 11:25 AM
Sammy Watkins <3

SnakeEyes43
11-07-2013, 01:16 PM
I love Watkins. He's been so impressive this season. I'd be so happy with Watkins/Clowney/Matthews in the first round this year. All of them are cornerstone pieces in their own way

Getting one of them would be worth going 3-13 this season.

TarlsQtr
11-07-2013, 01:28 PM
The same reason that Atlanta went after Julio when they had Roddy.
The same reason that Denver nabbed Welker, when they had Thomas and Decker.

I've been very clear that I believe Brown is PERFORMING like a #1 WR, in a #1 WR role... I believe that is an Objective statement based on the hard numbers. I've also been clear that I don't believe AB is one of the FEW elite WRs... and he never will be.

that doesn't mean that going after the next Julio Jones doesn't significantly improve our team. I think very highly of Watkins... and wouldn't spend our high 1st on any other WR.



I think you have a slight misinterpretation of my opinion... or i haven't been clear about the bigger picture and my opinions on position value.

With a top 10 pick, im only drafting QB, WR, LT, or the most dominant of dominant pass rusher....
LT scares me more than WR from a bust/success ratio in that range of the draft.

It's sammy watkins for me

Thanks for the clarification.

I understand why Watkins would make this offense better. My point was more about investing in a number one receiver when we already have one (in your opinion) and we have a lot of other gaping holes to fill. This is especially true if we go into rebuild mode and we let the Hood, Polamalu, Pouncey, Kiesel, Taylor types go.

WR would seem to be more of a luxury than we can afford.

That said, I am not that high on Brown so I am all in on Watkins.

questforSB7
11-07-2013, 01:38 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

I understand why Watkins would make this offense better. My point was more about investing in a number one receiver when we already have one (in your opinion) and we have a lot of other gaping holes to fill. This is especially true if we go into rebuild mode and we let the Hood, Polamalu, Pouncey, Kiesel, Taylor types go.

WR would seem to be more of a luxury than we can afford.

That said, I am not that high on Brown so I am all in on Watkins.




All due respect, Watkins is not going to make this offense any better. Not any better then Lee could..( Same size and speed )
or better then Matthews could, who has great height, and the best hands in this draft. This team MUST have Legit O-Line help yes. But unless management is gonna totally tear this team apart...then we need a PROVEN Vet Left Tackle...just to start with. Cause NO O-line rookie is ever a SURE thing. As for Watkins, no WR will ever start, or get any real significant PT under Tomlin, so why use a top-5-8 pick on one ? I still say AT Best we will draft anywhere from 4 to 6. And at that spot the steelers MUST be sellers, and move down the draft a couple of times at the LEAST.



Moving say from number 5 to say number 8 would likely net us a early 3rd and 4th rounders. Then say move down from 8 to say 15, we can easily get that teams 2nd rounder. So now, we could still get a SOLID LT at 15, or maybe even Lee at WR. And then still have a 2nd rounder at 37 and 47, and a early 3rd rounder, and whatever possible 3rd rounders we get for losing Mike Wallace, or K.Lewis, and then 2 early 4th rounders.



THAT is what the Steelers MUST do IF they Indeed get a draft pick in the 4 to 6 range.

K Train
11-07-2013, 01:43 PM
i stopped reading that nonsense at "same size and speed"...jesus, i like lee a lot but what a terrible way to look at it

questforSB7
11-07-2013, 01:53 PM
i stopped reading that nonsense at "same size and speed"...jesus, i like lee a lot but what a terrible way to look at it





Watkins is OFFICIALLY 6ft, 1/2 inch....Lee is 6ft even. Lee is listed at 200 Lbs, and Watlins at 205 Lbs. Lee has been timed in the 4.3 range. And I will bet my life that Watkins, although fast is not THAT much faster..if at all. Now if that's NOT the same, or pretty much the same then what is ?

K Train
11-07-2013, 02:02 PM
oh just the fact that watkins is a better player lol

TarlsQtr
11-07-2013, 02:02 PM
Watkins is OFFICIALLY 6ft, 1/2 inch....Lee is 6ft even. Lee is listed at 200 Lbs, and Watlins at 205 Lbs. Lee has been timed in the 4.3 range. And I will bet my life that Watkins, although fast is not THAT much faster..if at all. Now if that's NOT the same, or pretty much the same then what is ?

I believe that the complaint was more about evaluating the two players on nothing but "size and speed" rather than saying the comparison was factually wrong.

questforSB7
11-07-2013, 04:25 PM
I believe that the complaint was more about evaluating the two players on nothing but "size and speed" rather than saying the comparison was factually wrong.




Actually if you compare skill set and on the field performance, Lee is easily a BETTER WR then Watkins. So if it were a choice of having to stay at say pick 6 and selecting Watkins, or trading down a couple of times to around pick 14 to 15 and getting Lee. To me that's an easy decision....you take the extra Draft picks and Lee.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-07-2013, 04:40 PM
All you need to do is search for Quest's posts about Watkins like 6 weeks ago to realize he hasn't got a clue

Big T
11-07-2013, 08:37 PM
All you need to do is search for Quest's posts about Watkins like 6 weeks ago to realize he hasn't got a clue

This. Absolutely clueless. Just like Jadeveon Clowney has rarely been doubled teamed this year lol

Black@Gold Forever32
11-08-2013, 12:48 AM
Matthews or Watkins in the first round for me.......If Matthews in the first then Mike Evans in the 2nd round....

LatrobePA
11-08-2013, 03:34 PM
oh just the fact that watkins is a better player lol

At what level? College I'm assuming because you don't know what he'll do at the next level.

Look at our LB Jones, stud in school bust in the pros so far.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-08-2013, 04:02 PM
Matthews or Watkins in the first round for me.......If Matthews in the first then Mike Evans in the 2nd round....

I think we'd all be pretty damn happy if that happened.

It's a really ****** year for us to not have a 3rd rounder we can use to move up (we traded our 3rd this year, to get Shamarko last year). And even though we'll probably have a 3rd Comp pick (wallace)... you can't trade comp picks.

the reason it sucks... is that it's such an ideal year for us to make a strong move from our early 2nd, back into the late 1st (by leveraging our 3rd).

Mike Evans would be the type of player to make that type of move for (or Jordan Matthews) - if we went OT with our 1st.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-08-2013, 04:05 PM
At what level? College I'm assuming because you don't know what he'll do at the next level.

Look at our LB Jones, stud in school bust in the pros so far.

What are you trying to say?

it looks like you are saying that no college player is better than any other college player...(that's exactly what you are saying by trying to contradict KTrains statement that Watkins is the better player) because you don't know what they'll do at the next level?

Should we just pick players out of a hat at the draft?

or do you think its possible to assess college talent and differentiate who is better? maybe?

Dean Denton
11-08-2013, 04:41 PM
So as of right now I think we have the 3rd overall pick. That's high. I don't see this team moving much beyond top 5. So you guys seem to like one of the 6' WR. Are they worth that high of a pick? I ask cuz I don't know. Isn't there a Calvin or Dez type coming out this year? Reason being the bucs and the jags are going QB we all know that so that leaves us pretty much any player on the board. Giants will finish better then us cuz we don't play the NFC least....

Big T
11-08-2013, 04:48 PM
So as of right now I think we have the 3rd overall pick. That's high. I don't see this team moving much beyond top 5. So you guys seem to like one of the 6' WR. Are they worth that high of a pick? I ask cuz I don't know. Isn't there a Calvin or Dez type coming out this year? Reason being the bucs and the jags are going QB we all know that so that leaves us pretty much any player on the board. Giants will finish better then us cuz we don't play the NFC least....

Sammy Watkins is a #1 receiver. He's under 6'2 but he has everything you want in a receiver. He doesn't have the elite height like a Calvin Johnson but that's about all he doesn't have. He's got elite speed (4.2-something), he's got strong hands, he can high point the ball, he's good with the ball in his hands (he's not Cordarrelle Patterson in that regard but he's no slouch), he's intelligent, hungry, humble... Sammy Watkins is my man crush for next years draft.

Having said that, I don't see this team having a top 3 pick. I can certainly see top 10, but not 3.

Dean Denton
11-08-2013, 05:03 PM
Sammy Watkins is a #1 receiver. He's under 6'2 but he has everything you want in a receiver. He doesn't have the elite height like a Calvin Johnson but that's about all he doesn't have. He's got elite speed (4.2-something), he's got strong hands, he can high point the ball, he's good with the ball in his hands (he's not Cordarrelle Patterson in that regard but he's no slouch), he's intelligent, hungry, humble... Sammy Watkins is my man crush for next years draft.

Having said that, I don't see this team having a top 3 pick. I can certainly see top 10, but not 3.
Is he similar to Holmes? Watkins? The only Clemson game I've seen this year was against Florida st and I didn't notice him. And I like that you think we won't finish with a top three pick. Gives me hope cuz right now I'm lost with everything. Kinda turning to you guys, my brothers for some uplifting insight.

Big T
11-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Is he similar to Holmes? Watkins? The only Clemson game I've seen this year was against Florida st and I didn't notice him. And I like that you think we won't finish with a top three pick. Gives me hope cuz right now I'm lost with everything. Kinda turning to you guys, my brothers for some uplifting insight.

Marqise Lee is a very similar player compared to Holmes. Sammy Watkins on the other hand is more comparable to Julio Jones, as NPB has previously noted. He's about an inch and a half shorter than Julio but other than that I think it's a good comparison. They're both dynamic, explosive players with unlimited potential. I think Watkins catches the ball a little better than Julio did in college. Julio had a knack for making incredible catches but he also was known to drop a gimme or two here and there.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-08-2013, 06:44 PM
So as of right now I think we have the 3rd overall pick. That's high. I don't see this team moving much beyond top 5. So you guys seem to like one of the 6' WR. Are they worth that high of a pick? I ask cuz I don't know. Isn't there a Calvin or Dez type coming out this year? Reason being the bucs and the jags are going QB we all know that so that leaves us pretty much any player on the board. Giants will finish better then us cuz we don't play the NFC least....

Sammy is a Julio jones type in my opinion... Their are no other "elite" WR talents... But my definition exclude vjax types like mike Evans, and Holmes types like lee...

Jordan Matthews is still someone that I think could change my mind

Sammy Watkins is the real deal... And the dream of being to able to draft a REAL elite offensive talent is... Well it's the only thing tht matters now... Lol

Dean Denton
11-08-2013, 09:02 PM
I looked him up, Watkins and he's the #1 WR on the board. Coupled with Wheaton they could really create issues for many teams at stretching the field. We would have them for three years before they asked for more money then this franchise will pay a WR. So with that, is that the direction we go with our 1st pick? Seems like a lot considering we won't pay him down the road.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-08-2013, 11:25 PM
This team will be picking in the top 3-5......The Bills are going to spank their *** on Sunday........Its all about Matthews or Watkins for me right now.........

Real Deal Steel
11-09-2013, 12:05 AM
Marqise Lee is a very similar player compared to Holmes. Sammy Watkins on the other hand is more comparable to Julio Jones, as NPB has previously noted. He's about an inch and a half shorter than Julio but other than that I think it's a good comparison. They're both dynamic, explosive players with unlimited potential. I think Watkins catches the ball a little better than Julio did in college. Julio had a knack for making incredible catches but he also was known to drop a gimme or two here and there.

Your selling me on Watkins big time! If he's in fact 95 percent of Julio Jones, that's the kind of guy we need!

We just moved ahead of the Vikings with their win over the Redskins. We need for Houston to get another win and then we've got the AFC locked up! LOL. Gotta laugh about it don't we? With a win by the Giants, we can slide in right behind Jacksonville and Tampa Bay.

questforSB7
11-09-2013, 12:10 AM
Your selling me on Watkins big time! If he's in fact 95 percent of Julio Jones, that's the kind of guy we need!

We just moved ahead of the Vikings with their win over the Redskins. We need for Houston to get another win and then we've got the AFC locked up! LOL. Gotta laugh about it don't we? With a win by the Giants, we can slide in right behind Jacksonville and Tampa Bay.




Sammy Watkins is NOT like Julio Jones in any way whatsoever. Jones is about 25 Lbs more when he came out then Watkins will be. Plus, Jones main skill was that he was a very Physical WR. Very strong hands and great at timing his jump at the right point to get the ball. As where Watkins is a darting fast WR that is best on end a rounds, or WR screens and quick slants to utilize his great speed. Watkins is NOT a Physical style of a WR like a Julio Jones, or a Dez Bryant.


The comparison of those two WR being simular is Insane, and stupid!!

Real Deal Steel
11-09-2013, 12:11 AM
I looked him up, Watkins and he's the #1 WR on the board. Coupled with Wheaton they could really create issues for many teams at stretching the field. We would have them for three years before they asked for more money then this franchise will pay a WR. So with that, is that the direction we go with our 1st pick? Seems like a lot considering we won't pay him down the road.

Depends....

Are we drafting for "now" or are we drafting to be good in two-three years? Rebuilding in other words. Because we can possibly fix this offense in the off-season. But the defense needs some things..nose tackle, safety, cornerback...

With so much to do, including changing some coaches, I just don't see us being a threat for 3 years. And that's if we do it right.

Real Deal Steel
11-09-2013, 12:12 AM
Sammy Watkins is NOT like Julio Jones in any way whatsoever. Jones is about 25 Lbs more when he came out then Watkins will be. Plus, Jones main skill was that he was a very Physical WR. Very strong hands and great at timing his jump at the right point to get the ball. As where Watkins is a darting fast WR that is best on end a rounds, or WR screens and quick slants to utilize his great speed. Watkins is NOT a Physical style of a WR like a Julio Jones, or a Dez Bryant.


The comparison of those two WR being simular is Insane, and stupid!!

quest, why do you need to personally insult someone???? Gzzzz. Just say you don't agree and state your reasons. We've got to stop this insane personal insult stuff when we don't agree with someone.

questforSB7
11-09-2013, 12:16 AM
quest, why do you need to personally insult someone???? Gzzzz. Just say you don't agree and state your reasons. We've got to stop this insane personal insult stuff when we don't agree with someone.




I never PERSONALLY Insulted anyone...a;; I said was the COMPARISON of Watkins to Jones was stupid...the idea, not the person. Watkins has skills yes. But I also think he is a little overrated....just my opinion. I have watched him every year for three years, and Marquis Lee as well. And to me, Lee is a better pure WR. But again, that is just my opinion.

Big T
11-09-2013, 12:29 AM
Sammy Watkins is NOT like Julio Jones in any way whatsoever. Jones is about 25 Lbs more when he came out then Watkins will be. Plus, Jones main skill was that he was a very Physical WR. Very strong hands and great at timing his jump at the right point to get the ball. As where Watkins is a darting fast WR that is best on end a rounds, or WR screens and quick slants to utilize his great speed. Watkins is NOT a Physical style of a WR like a Julio Jones, or a Dez Bryant.


The comparison of those two WR being simular is Insane, and stupid!!

Do you ever get sick of talking about things that you have no real knowlodge of?

Big T
11-09-2013, 12:31 AM
I never PERSONALLY Insulted anyone...a;; I said was the COMPARISON of Watkins to Jones was stupid...the idea, not the person. Watkins has skills yes. But I also think he is a little overrated....just my opinion. I have watched him every year for three years, and Marquis Lee as well. And to me, Lee is a better pure WR. But again, that is just my opinion.

Lololololololol... Hilarious. Where's the post where you mentioned he ran in the 4.5 range? Gotta find that one lol

questforSB7
11-09-2013, 12:33 AM
Do you ever get sick of talking about things that you have no real knowlodge of?





Do you ever get sick and tired of being a F@GGOT!! ?



I will address you when you actually acquire a CLUE. Or when you can explain why a 30 Lbs lighter WR, who has NEVER been a Physical WR like Jones was at Alabama is simular ?



Dunce!!!

Big T
11-09-2013, 12:48 AM
Lololololololol... Hilarious. Where's the post where you mentioned he ran in the 4.5 range? Gotta find that one lol

Here it is... Hilarious. Definitely sounds like a guy who has been watching Sammy Watkins for 3 years.


Neil, what are you showing, the DB did slip, and Watkins was Luckey to grab that catch. Look at his numbers. What did he do besides that ONE catch ? And he's not even a speedster either, with 4.5-4.55 speed. Not slow slow, but not fast either. At least M.Lee has an excuse for his numbers being low, what's Watkins ? Last time I checked he had a 4 year QB in Boyd throwing it to him. As for Clowney, please answer the Question ? Where does he play ? At DE he would be killed in a 3-4 set.

NeilPatrickBanana
11-09-2013, 07:36 AM
Here it is... Hilarious. Definitely sounds like a guy who has been watching Sammy Watkins for 3 years.

Which thread was that? I was looking for it... I posted the clip on Watkins trucking the DB, that was the play Quest said the DB "fell down"
Lol

Big T
11-09-2013, 12:12 PM
Which thread was that? I was looking for it... I posted the clip on Watkins trucking the DB, that was the play Quest said the DB "fell down"
Lol

http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/39951-We-might-as-well-talk-about-it-now/page9?highlight=Watkins


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Z4R5jsBKU

The DB totally "fell down" lol

steelchamp204
11-09-2013, 12:55 PM
http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/39951-We-might-as-well-talk-about-it-now/page9?highlight=Watkins


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Z4R5jsBKU

The DB totally "fell down" lol

To be fair, he didnt really "unload" on him either lol

questforSB7
11-09-2013, 01:16 PM
It doesn't matter right now anyways. Wherever Watkins is, or Bridgewater, ect is right now is likely NOT where they will be precieved come draft time. The Draft is like the Dow Jones market....constantly Up and down. Hell last year at this time, there wasn't a single NFL Draft report that didn't have Jarvis Jones in the top-5 to 7 in the draft, but look where he was projected come April 2013....right around where we got him. Watkins might be listed right now in the 8-10 area, but come April of 2014, he might be in the 14-17 range...he might be in the 3-5 range...we just don't know. Bottom line is we have several areas we need to address, and NOT enough good selections...meanning in the 1st to 3rd round range to address all of them. Which is why we have to HOPEFULLY get a really good 1st round selection, and parlay that into more selections in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Right now I KNOW any NFL team will always believe that they can turn it around and make the playoffs. And that is fine for right now as far as I'm concerned. We have 6 losses. If we win the rest, we are a 10-6 team, and probably in the playoffs. However, if we lose to Buffalo, and then Detroit, we will be 2-8, and really OUT of any chance for the playoffs. And
that is when I HOPE Mike Tomlin is smart enough to pull out the Veteran players that likely WILL be here next season and not risk them to a serious Injury that will affect them next season.



That is why I as a fan will have no problem if after we are out of the hunt for the playoffs we maybe pull Ben out, and see what Landry Jones can do in the final 5 to 6 games. Or removing Troy, or Clark and starting Shamarko at Safety, or Wheaton for Sanders/Brown. It's NOT to get more losses. But to get thos accustomed to getting playing time now. But as for who, or what player we should be targeting at picks 4 through 7 or whatever is useless cause chances are alot of those players who ARE slotted for that area right now will NOT be slotted for that pick come April.