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View Full Version : Alot of us want Tomlin fired, or Todd Haley fired...however....



questforSB7
09-29-2013, 12:36 PM
...Not even I would fire them the way USC fired Lane Kiffin last night. That was F-Up!



http://deadspin.com/lane-kiffin-was-fired-in-the-most-cold-blooded-way-1421405896





I only mention this cause...I have a dream..( Nightmare )..that Kiffin will be the NEW Pittsburgh Steeler OC in 2014!!

SuperSteelers
09-29-2013, 12:44 PM
How was it f-up? It is not any different than how people treat each other on this forum and throughout the country. It's the norm now.

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 12:47 PM
How was it f-up? It is not any different than how people treat each other on this forum and throughout the country. It's the norm now.




WHAT! ? Name any other time a Head Coach was fired right after a away game, and was kicked off the bus and left at the Airport...Name ONE TIME!! It is NOT the Norm!

SuperSteelers
09-29-2013, 12:48 PM
WHAT! ? Name any other time a Head Coach was fired right after a away game, and was kicked off the bus and left at the Airport...Name ONE TIME!! It is NOT the Norm!

Vruuuummmmm, my post went right over your head.

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 12:50 PM
Vruuuummmmm, my post went right over your head.


Okay, explain yourself then.

NYCsteelersfan
09-29-2013, 01:04 PM
Quest, this is a serious question and I mean no disrespect when asking, but are you under the age of 18?

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 01:05 PM
Quest, this is a serious question and I mean no disrespect when asking, but are you under the age of 18?




Why do you ask. How does it relate to this thread ?

NYCsteelersfan
09-29-2013, 01:12 PM
Why do you ask. How does it relate to this thread ?

The fact that SuperSteelers post went right over your head.

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 01:16 PM
The fact that SuperSteelers post went right over your head.




It didn't go over my head. It was a stupid response. Bottom line, what USC did to Kiffin WAS FCKED UP! If not, then I'm asking how do you figure ?

SuperSteelers
09-29-2013, 01:24 PM
It was a stupid response.

That's the pot calling the kettle black...Bwahahaha you crack me up brah.

NYCsteelersfan
09-29-2013, 01:32 PM
It didn't go over my head. It was a stupid response. Bottom line, what USC did to Kiffin WAS FCKED UP! If not, then I'm asking how do you figure ?


It did go over your head. He was being cynically sarcastic and you didn't pick up on it at all.

RIVERS OF STEEL
09-29-2013, 02:31 PM
WHAT! ? Name any other time a Head Coach was fired right after a away game, and was kicked off the bus and left at the Airport...Name ONE TIME!! It is NOT the Norm!

Should happen after the London game. Let em walk the eff back to wherever they came from.

ChucktownSteeler
09-29-2013, 04:52 PM
You are guaranteed nothing in life. Not even a bus ride.

Dean Denton
09-29-2013, 04:55 PM
You are guaranteed nothing in life. Not even a bus ride.. Lol

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 04:56 PM
You are guaranteed nothing in life. Not even a bus ride.




It still was a Classless move by Pat Haden and USC. And I BET their players feel so as well. It just makes it tougher for the new Coach to do his job. There was zero point in doing it, other then to be mean and disrespectful. Pat Haden is a little Jerk!

ChucktownSteeler
09-29-2013, 04:59 PM
It still was a Classless move by Pat Haden and USC. And I BET their players feel so as well. It just makes it tougher for the new Coach to do his job. There was zero point in doing it, other then to be mean and disrespectful. Pat Haden is a little Jerk!

You don't know the whole story. Kiffin may have done something to deserve this.

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 05:04 PM
You don't know the whole story. Kiffin may have done something to deserve this.




Kiffin did nothing. Other then lose 8 of his last 11 games. Okay, maybe he deserved to get fired. But not after 1 AM after arriving at LAX, then allow him on the bus, only to have Pat Haden...who was NOT there or on the bus, call someone to stop the bus, and kick him off ? Dude grow up. Anyway you slice it it is a No Class move.

Real Deal Steel
09-29-2013, 05:30 PM
It didn't go over my head. It was a stupid response. Bottom line, what USC did to Kiffin WAS FCKED UP! If not, then I'm asking how do you figure ?

I live here on the west coast and I've been a life long USC trojan fan and we've been knowing that Kiffin was going to get the boot. All the Alumni have known for the last 6 months. He's a bum, he doesn't act like he cares about the kids, they were having no joy out there playing for him. Also, he reluctantly wants to run a balanced offense and doesn't want to use the TE at all. And he doesn't really like to run the ball either. Going for two points at stupid times and missing and pumping up the other team. And he doesn't want to play physical football either. All these things added up to him getting whacked. And I'm happy. It couldn't have happened soon enough for me.

LatrobePA
09-29-2013, 05:38 PM
0-4 should demand changes but nothing will. Get Ben out of the crap system and start pressing the damn WR's!!

LevonKirkland99
09-29-2013, 06:45 PM
The Rooney don't fire people that way, so it will never happen. Tomlin will be back next year...Not sure about haley though

Lunchbucket
09-29-2013, 07:06 PM
The Rooney don't fire people that way, so it will never happen. Tomlin will be back next year...Not sure about haley though

Ditto.

Clevelandsux
09-29-2013, 07:08 PM
I heard Tomlin went off during his press conference. No more cliches.

Clevelandsux
09-29-2013, 07:10 PM
My guess is kiffen said something. Reminds me of the Tom cruise movie all the right moves, when Craig t.nelson made him get on the cheerleaders bus.

Clevelandsux
09-29-2013, 07:20 PM
Steelers basically told chuck noll to retire instead of firing him.

LevonKirkland99
09-29-2013, 07:39 PM
Steelers basically told chuck noll to retire instead of firing him.

and your point is?

Troyisabeast_43
09-29-2013, 07:41 PM
I heard Tomlin went off during his press conference. No more cliches.

He still said nothing and he looks like he has no answers. You just feel hopeless with Tomlin leading this team at this point. He is not going to coach or talk his way out of this season and what is going on here. Things are not going to improve or get better with this team they are going to get much much worse. This is an absolute disaster right now. To be the only team in the NFL without a ****ing turnover after 4 games is simply inexcusable. Something is seriously seriously wrong there...

Real Deal Steel
09-29-2013, 07:42 PM
The Rooney don't fire people that way, so it will never happen. Tomlin will be back next year...Not sure about haley though

On rotoworld today, the said that Haley could be fired if there was a poor showing by the offense today. So I guess he's still going to be here?? I hate to say it, but it wasn't Haley who fumbled the ball away at the end. That was Ben and Ben alone.

Real Deal Steel
09-29-2013, 07:44 PM
He still said nothing and he looks like he has no answers. You just feel hopeless with Tomlin leading this team at this point. He is not going to coach or talk his way out of this season and what is going on here. Things are not going to improve or get better with this team they are going to get much much worse. This is an absolute disaster right now. To be the only team in the NFL without a ****ing turnover after 4 games is simply inexcusable. Something is seriously seriously wrong there...

That's your boy Dick Lebum. He's defensive scheme isn't conducive to generating turnovers. We've been at the bottom of that stat for years now. And there are still Lebum supporters posting around here.

Troyisabeast_43
09-29-2013, 07:46 PM
We came up short, but we played better than we have in recent weeks," Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin said. "We gave up explosive plays, you can't do that. ... We're going to focus on getting better, and that's what's going to change the outcome of football games." The fact that Tomlin said that today after the game shows you he has no clue and that things are not going to get fixed or get any better...How in god's name can Tomlin say they played better then they have in recent weeks. Is he ****ing retarded or something???

Nolrog
09-29-2013, 07:49 PM
On rotoworld today, the said that Haley could be fired if there was a poor showing by the offense today. So I guess he's still going to be here?? I hate to say it, but it wasn't Haley who fumbled the ball away at the end. That was Ben and Ben alone.

The Steelers are not going to fire Haley during the season. The Rooney's have a lot of loyalty to his family because of his father. They may decide to let him go in the off-season, but it will be billed as Haley left to pursue other interests (as if he left, rather than being let go.) No matter what happened today, there was about a 0% chance they would have changed now.

TarlsQtr
09-29-2013, 11:39 PM
That's your boy Dick Lebum. He's defensive scheme isn't conducive to generating turnovers. We've been at the bottom of that stat for years now. And there are still Lebum supporters posting around here.

Hogwash. It is the same "scheme" as it was when they were among the league leaders in creating turnovers.

questforSB7
09-29-2013, 11:42 PM
Hogwash. It is the same "scheme" as it was when they were among the league leaders in creating turnovers.



It is not the same. The steelers never used any form of the Cover-2 until Tomlin got here. In fact it was Tomlin's calling card when he coached in Minny, and Tampa Bay. But it never was used here with Lebeau until " Uncle Mike " arrived.

Real Deal Steel
09-30-2013, 09:29 AM
It is not the same. The steelers never used any form of the Cover-2 until Tomlin got here. In fact it was Tomlin's calling card when he coached in Minny, and Tampa Bay. But it never was used here with Lebeau until " Uncle Mike " arrived.

Thank you. You beat me to it.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-30-2013, 09:40 AM
It is not the same. The steelers never used any form of the Cover-2 until Tomlin got here. In fact it was Tomlin's calling card when he coached in Minny, and Tampa Bay. But it never was used here with Lebeau until " Uncle Mike " arrived.

The Steelers have incorporated some cover 2 concepts into their playbook forever... cover 2 is a basic tenant of every defense in the NFL. Every defense has playcalls with cover-1, cover-2, cover-3 in it.

as far as turnovers are concerned, i think Cover-2 Man/Press would produce more turnovers for the secondary than the traditional cover 3 zones the steelers run.

cover-2 zone has been a typical lebeau call for over a decade... and we didn't even talk about cover-6 which is what the Steelers have been employing a lot of in the Troy era

the point is : coverage schemes are universal... the Steelers still employ cover-3 and cover-6 predominantly (cover 6 is a mix of c2 on one side of the field, and c4 on the other) and splash cover-2 and cover-1 (and even cover-0...****ing denver OT) in their... and Tomlin didn't bring cover-2 to the Steelers... it was already here. Cover 6 is where "confusion" used to come from in terms of young QBs being able to "read" it.

The problem today, is that this stuff isn't new, and confusing anymore... it's common place.

Lebeau's defense isn't special anymore

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 11:44 AM
Thank you. You beat me to it.

Yes, he beat you to being wrong...

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 11:47 AM
It is not the same. The steelers never used any form of the Cover-2 until Tomlin got here. In fact it was Tomlin's calling card when he coached in Minny, and Tampa Bay. But it never was used here with Lebeau until " Uncle Mike " arrived.

We were third in the league in creating turnovers in 2010 (35). When did "Uncle Mike" arrive?

Real Deal Steel
09-30-2013, 11:50 AM
We were third in the league in creating turnovers in 2010 (35). When did "Uncle Mike" arrive?

That was three seasons ago. That's what I said. The last three years, including this year.

There's a reason you had to go that far back. LOL

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 11:55 AM
The Steelers have incorporated some cover 2 concepts into their playbook forever... cover 2 is a basic tenant of every defense in the NFL. Every defense has playcalls with cover-1, cover-2, cover-3 in it.

as far as turnovers are concerned, i think Cover-2 Man/Press would produce more turnovers for the secondary than the traditional cover 3 zones the steelers run.

cover-2 zone has been a typical lebeau call for over a decade... and we didn't even talk about cover-6 which is what the Steelers have been employing a lot of in the Troy era

the point is : coverage schemes are universal... the Steelers still employ cover-3 and cover-6 predominantly (cover 6 is a mix of c2 on one side of the field, and c4 on the other) and splash cover-2 and cover-1 (and even cover-0...****ing denver OT) in their... and Tomlin didn't bring cover-2 to the Steelers... it was already here. Cover 6 is where "confusion" used to come from in terms of young QBs being able to "read" it.

The problem today, is that this stuff isn't new, and confusing anymore... it's common place.

Lebeau's defense isn't special anymore

I agree for the most part. There are so many other teams using some form of the defense that it is not as scary anymore.

However, I believe the bigger problem is "players." If you ignore the problems of transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4 (player compatibility issues), I would claim that the Seahawks D would have the same success if DLB was their coordinator.

They just have better players than us.

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 12:05 PM
That was three seasons ago. That's what I said. The last three years, including this year.

There's a reason you had to go that far back. LOL

LOL You just cannot admit that you are wrong.

1) You said his scheme was not conducive to turnovers.
2) I said no, because it is virtually the same scheme as when they were among the league leaders in turnovers.
3) Quest said no it was not the same scheme, because Tomlin changed it to a Cover 2 which DLB never used. (He is woefully wrong about this.)
4) You agreed. (Again, woefully wrong.)
5) I pointed out that they were among the league leaders in 2010, in Tomlin's fourth year.

In other words, even using your claim that Tomlin changed the system to any great degree (again, wrong), the scheme worked in 2010. It still can work. The players are just not as good as they were in 2010.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-30-2013, 12:18 PM
I agree for the most part. There are so many other teams using some form of the defense that it is not as scary anymore.

However, I believe the bigger problem is "players." If you ignore the problems of transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4 (player compatibility issues), I would claim that the Seahawks D would have the same success if DLB was their coordinator.

They just have better players than us.

I think the players are playing in an outdated scheme, I would agree with your statement in terms of "pressure/front 7" players. The Steelers lack anyone capable of dominating up front.

BUT...

It's also the playbook. The league has evolved and the "confusion" that the Lebeau defense is known for simply isn't confusing anymore. Team's are zone pass blocking, WRs run option routes based on the WR/QB making the same zone coverage reads... the zone blitz / zone coverage schemes are being picked apart across the NFL. The best defenses today play one on one and rely on talent winning the day, not scheme.

So... basically... i'm saying it's both.

As for DLB/Seattle.... sorry but I think it's a terrible comparison. Seattle's D Line 1 gaps all day. They are massive up front, and run a unique system. They 1 and 2 gap. They run fronts from the 4-3 that behave like a 3-4 (wilson 1 gap like). Bryant 2 gaps the nose a lot, but the other DL penetrate single gaps. Then on the next play the DEs will 2 gap, with 1 interior 1 gapping. They've evolved their "Leo" position (WLB) into a roving menace (chris clemons), and they play mostly cover 1 over the top, because they intend to beat you up front and across the line of scrimmage (press corners).

I think what Carrol has done in terms of merging 1 gap and 2 gap principles into a coherent, new, attacking defense (sort of new.... 49er 90s defense really was the first), and dominate defense is at the forefront of the NFL today.

Basically, I think Lebeau's "stuff" is dying, and Carrol's is the future....

Real Deal Steel
09-30-2013, 12:28 PM
LOL You just cannot admit that you are wrong.

1) You said his scheme was not conducive to turnovers.
2) I said no, because it is virtually the same scheme as when they were among the league leaders in turnovers.
3) Quest said no it was not the same scheme, because Tomlin changed it to a Cover 2 which DLB never used. (He is woefully wrong about this.)
4) You agreed. (Again, woefully wrong.)
5) I pointed out that they were among the league leaders in 2010, in Tomlin's fourth year.

In other words, even using your claim that Tomlin changed the system to any great degree (again, wrong), the scheme worked in 2010. It still can work. The players are just not as good as they were in 2010.

Tarlsqtr, I said that for the last three years which includes this season that the defense has been poor in the turnover dept. That's what I said. Go read my post.

You always act like your the end all to be all and your not. You are the one who can't ever admit he's wrong about anything. Just like you were wrong about Ike Taylor and he gets his @ss torn up by Jerome Simpson yesterday.

And if you run a defense for 35 years, I'm sure that I could go back and find a year that we got a decent amount of turnovers. lol. Bottom line is that this defense has been crappy in turnovers for the last three years. Your saying it isn't the scheme, some say it's the players (not good quality) the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 12:34 PM
I think the players are playing in an outdated scheme, I would agree with your statement in terms of "pressure/front 7" players. The Steelers lack anyone capable of dominating up front.

BUT...

It's also the playbook. The league has evolved and the "confusion" that the Lebeau defense is known for simply isn't confusing anymore. Team's are zone pass blocking, WRs run option routes based on the WR/QB making the same zone coverage reads... the zone blitz / zone coverage schemes are being picked apart across the NFL. The best defenses today play one on one and rely on talent winning the day, not scheme.

So... basically... i'm saying it's both.

As for DLB/Seattle.... sorry but I think it's a terrible comparison. Seattle's D Line 1 gaps all day. They are massive up front, and run a unique system. They 1 and 2 gap. They run fronts from the 4-3 that behave like a 3-4 (wilson 1 gap like). Bryant 2 gaps the nose a lot, but the other DL penetrate single gaps. Then on the next play the DEs will 2 gap, with 1 interior 1 gapping. They've evolved their "Leo" position (WLB) into a roving menace (chris clemons), and they play mostly cover 1 over the top, because they intend to beat you up front and across the line of scrimmage (press corners).

I think what Carrol has done in terms of merging 1 gap and 2 gap principles into a coherent, new, attacking defense (sort of new.... 49er 90s defense really was the first), and dominate defense is at the forefront of the NFL today.

Basically, I think Lebeau's "stuff" is dying, and Carrol's is the future....

Actually, I think we agree more than disagree. Yes, it is both. More than the 3-4 scheme itself, my biggest issue with DLB is the defensive playcalling. It used to look like he had a gameplan each week based on the opposing team's strengths/weaknesses. Now, I swear he just dusts off an old one and calls the same stunts week after week. Nothing new or imaginative like many other dominant 3-4's use.

I was not trying to compare our D with Seattle's or say that you could plug and play their players into DLB's system. The schemes are vastly different. My point was regarding their athletes compared to ours. If you gave DLB the same quality athletes that Seattle has but compatible with his system, our D would be balling. Schemes get you so far but I believe the quality of the Seattle players is the much bigger difference.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-30-2013, 12:38 PM
Actually, I think we agree more than disagree. Yes, it is both. More than the 3-4 scheme itself, my biggest issue with DLB is the defensive playcalling. It used to look like he had a gameplan each week based on the opposing team's strengths/weaknesses. Now, I swear he just dusts off an old one and calls the same stunts week after week. Nothing new or imaginative like many other dominant 3-4's use.

I was not trying to compare our D with Seattle's or say that you could plug and play their players into DLB's system. The schemes are vastly different. My point was regarding their athletes compared to ours. If you gave DLB the same quality athletes that Seattle has but compatible with his system, our D would be balling. Schemes get you so far but I believe the quality of the Seattle players is the much bigger difference.

again, we agree a lot but in different ways :lol:

Scheme will get you so far, players get you wins : we agree
But a 2 gaping front, that expects pressure to come from LBers alone, along with a primarily zone coverage system.... is simply a dead philosophy/scheme in today's NFL IMO... the party is over.

TarlsQtr
09-30-2013, 12:58 PM
Tarlsqtr, I said that for the last three years which includes this season that the defense has been poor in the turnover dept. That's what I said. Go read my post.

Actually, you said "for years" not "three years" but it is mainly irrelevant. And we AGREE on that point.

You also said that DLB's scheme is not conducive to turnovers. As has been shown, when he has had the athletes he has gotten turnovers. When Quest said that 2010 was a different scheme than used today because they played no cover 2, you agreed. You were wrong.


You always act like your the end all to be all and your not. You are the one who can't ever admit he's wrong about anything.

Project much?


Just like you were wrong about Ike Taylor and he gets his @ss torn up by Jerome Simpson yesterday.

Even assuming all of those catches were on Ike (I would have to rewatch the game), Revis gave up a TD to a beaten up Fitz yesterday. Is he "just a guy?" A guy, like Ike, who plays with virtually no help gets beat on occasion. I cannot believe that you need that explained to you.


And if you run a defense for 35 years, I'm sure that I could go back and find a year that we got a decent amount of turnovers. lol. Bottom line is that this defense has been crappy in turnovers for the last three years. Your saying it isn't the scheme, some say it's the players (not good quality) the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Actually, I said it was somewhere in the middle and he has had more than one year with turnovers.

The issue you are having is that you cannot read. I never disagreed with you on the point you are arguing (no turnovers the last 2+ seasons).

SuperSteelers
09-30-2013, 04:05 PM
You always act like your the end all to be all and your not. You are the one who can't ever admit he's wrong about anything.

Just take it with a grain of salt. I never take what people say on these forums serious unless they actually have money on the game. Once they put money on a game you will have my full attention. They speak a good game but money talks and bullshit walks.

Real Deal Steel
09-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Just take it with a grain of salt. I never take what people say on these forums serious unless they actually have money on the game. Once they put money on a game you will have my full attention. They speak a good game but money talks and bullshit walks.

True dat!!