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Farrior Fan
09-17-2013, 07:57 PM
Just sitting here watching the game from last night. It took 29 seconds from when Paulson was tackled to when the Bungles threw the red flag. You could tell that Ben was going to run a quick play, but something happened. I propose that Haley or Tomlin had money on the game, and it was not on the black and gold. Either that or they are literally (and I am not kidding here) the stupidest mother ****ers on the face of the earth. I can take losing to a team with more talent, i really can. But when your coaches are ****ing retards... well that is just not acceptable. Seriously, I know as much as any guy that has never played "real" football and I knew the Steelers should hurry up. Why didnt Tomlin/Haley?

coldrolled
09-17-2013, 08:23 PM
There was the hit in the arm also, Dalton fumbled the ball he didn't throw it and we didn't throw a flag...

Tomlin is still in his maturation stage in coaching...

Big T
09-17-2013, 08:27 PM
There was the hit in the arm also, Dalton fumbled the ball he didn't throw it and we didn't throw a flag...

Tomlin is still in his maturation stage in coaching...

Can't challenge after two minute warning.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Just sitting here watching the game from last night. It took 29 seconds from when Paulson was tackled to when the Bungles threw the red flag. You could tell that Ben was going to run a quick play, but something happened. I propose that Haley or Tomlin had money on the game, and it was not on the black and gold. Either that or they are literally (and I am not kidding here) the stupidest mother ****ers on the face of the earth. I can take losing to a team with more talent, i really can. But when your coaches are ****ing retards... well that is just not acceptable. Seriously, I know as much as any guy that has never played "real" football and I knew the Steelers should hurry up. Why didnt Tomlin/Haley?

while i would not consider myself part of the pitchfork crowd that overreacts to every single playcall and error... this is a great example of bad in game coaching. they absolutely should've gone with the hurry up... and instead tried to change personnel packages. it was absolutely a failure on Haley's part... and a failure on Tomlin's part not to realize the situation and override him.

Troyisabeast_43
09-17-2013, 09:41 PM
Just sitting here watching the game from last night. It took 29 seconds from when Paulson was tackled to when the Bungles threw the red flag. You could tell that Ben was going to run a quick play, but something happened. I propose that Haley or Tomlin had money on the game, and it was not on the black and gold. Either that or they are literally (and I am not kidding here) the stupidest mother ****ers on the face of the earth. I can take losing to a team with more talent, i really can. But when your coaches are ****ing retards... well that is just not acceptable. Seriously, I know as much as any guy that has never played "real" football and I knew the Steelers should hurry up. Why didnt Tomlin/Haley?Tomlin is very dumb when it comes to using the clock and has absolutely no clue what the **** he is doing. I agree there has got to be more of an awareness there by Ben and Tomlin to go up to the line and even just spike the damn ball so that the ball doesnt go over to the Bengals. You would have taken 2nd and 10 at the Bengals 30 yard line in a second over giving the ball there to the Bengals. Tomlin has absolutely no clue what he is doing out there in terms of managing the clock. He doesnt think on the fly and cant adjust to anything going on around him...

LatrobePA
09-17-2013, 09:45 PM
Here's an idea. Maybe Paulson should of jumped on the ball instead of getting up and walking away like he was stupid.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Here's an idea. Maybe Paulson should of jumped on the ball instead of getting up and walking away like he was stupid.

he starts to look for the ball, and then the whistles blow...
i hate that plays whistled dead can be reviewed for exactly that reason...

LatrobePA
09-17-2013, 09:50 PM
he starts to look for the ball, and then the whistles blow...
i hate that plays whistled dead can be reviewed for exactly that reason...

Half *** I thought. Should if been non reviewable since the whistle blew.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-17-2013, 09:52 PM
Half *** I thought. Should if been non reviewable since the whistle blew.

they changed that rule a couple years ago... plays blown dead can be challenged now...which is what happened... i think its stupid... sooner or later its going to lead to ignoring whistles all together

Dean Denton
09-18-2013, 12:12 AM
I thought it was this play and the phantom trip that took a 30 yard play back that changed this game. These things are correctable fellas. Don't start falling apart on me now. It's a long season and living in Seattle this could get ugly if this doesn't get fixed.

FlatsSteeler
09-18-2013, 07:22 AM
Your right they are correctable......Problem is they have been happening for the last two seasons or longer it is FACT....Tomlin isn't a good Game Day coach, never has been, now the talent isn't there to bail him out......This is now Tomlins Team and the results of his abilitys are showing.......

FlatsSteeler
09-18-2013, 07:23 AM
Your right they are correctable......Problem is they have been happening for the last two seasons or longer it is FACT....Tomlin isn't a good Game Day coach, never has been, now the talent isn't there to bail him out......This is now Tomlins Team and the results of his abilities are showing.......

coldrolled
09-18-2013, 08:59 AM
Can't challenge after two minute warning.

We had zero from mr. luck also? we should fire that Mr. Luck fellow too.

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 10:16 AM
while i would not consider myself part of the pitchfork crowd that overreacts to every single playcall and error... this is a great example of bad in game coaching. they absolutely should've gone with the hurry up... and instead tried to change personnel packages. it was absolutely a failure on Haley's part... and a failure on Tomlin's part not to realize the situation and override him.

I would say its also an error on Ben's part, from an execution perspective. Ben realizes this could be close and rushed up to the line. When Ben saw the substitutions or whatever was causing the delay I would hope he'd just wave the others off the field and spike the ball. He might have caught hell after the game for doing it but if we were to hold onto the ball, possibly score a TD and take control of that game how anxious would anyone have been to persecute him?

This is not blaming Ben it's encouraging him. He IS the most important player. He IS the leader of this team, and if he wants to make a judgement call, (and he should be held accountable for any he would make), he should have that provision from management, I know he would have that support from his team mates. While maintaing respect for his coaches, following team rules, etc. I really just want to see him take over this team, and yes I do think that's possible.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-18-2013, 10:30 AM
It looked to me like Ben WAS trying to wave off the substitution

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 10:38 AM
Oh I agree. I just want him to assert himself, and if that's seen as a 2 -time Super Bowl QB challenging the coaches, then so be it. Maybe it's time for a players only meeting?

Big T
09-18-2013, 10:58 AM
Oh I agree. I just want him to assert himself, and if that's seen as a 2 -time Super Bowl QB challenging the coaches, then so be it. Maybe it's time for a players only meeting?

PITTSBURGH (93.7 The Fan) – Hours after a tough loss at Cincinnati, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger joins Vinnie & Cook for his weekly appearance on Sportsradio 93.7 The Fan.

Roethlisberger says the Steelers’ 0-2 start is “uncharted territory,” and reveals that he is calling a meeting with the other veteran players.

“We’re going to sit down and talk and figure out a way to right the ship and make sure that these young guys know that this is unacceptable,” he says. “And it starts with all of us older guys. Maybe us older guys need to revisit it ourselves, because we need to find a better way of letting these guys know what it means to be a Pittsburgh Steeler.”

“Maybe that means bringing in the Lombardi [trophies] and setting them in the team meeting room and putting up the Hall of Fame pictures and all that stuff."

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/09/17/ben-roethlisberger-show-everyone-needs-to-rediscover-the-steeler-way/

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 11:06 AM
Thank you T, I was unaware this was planned, but happy to hear it nonetheless.

jpele
09-18-2013, 11:18 AM
When Ben saw the substitutions or whatever was causing the delay I would hope he'd just wave the others off the field and spike the ball. .

The problem here is when the coach sends players out on the field ,none of them are looking at Ben to see if it's ok. This staff doesn't have a clue, poor game management is becoming more evident every game.

Real Deal Steel
09-18-2013, 11:19 AM
PITTSBURGH (93.7 The Fan) – Hours after a tough loss at Cincinnati, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger joins Vinnie & Cook for his weekly appearance on Sportsradio 93.7 The Fan.

Roethlisberger says the Steelers’ 0-2 start is “uncharted territory,” and reveals that he is calling a meeting with the other veteran players.

“We’re going to sit down and talk and figure out a way to right the ship and make sure that these young guys know that this is unacceptable,” he says. “And it starts with all of us older guys. Maybe us older guys need to revisit it ourselves, because we need to find a better way of letting these guys know what it means to be a Pittsburgh Steeler.”

“Maybe that means bringing in the Lombardi [trophies] and setting them in the team meeting room and putting up the Hall of Fame pictures and all that stuff."

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/09/17/ben-roethlisberger-show-everyone-needs-to-rediscover-the-steeler-way/

Love hearing this but hear is the two problems in a nut shell:

1. Poor O-line play

2. Poor play calling by Haley

If the O-line hasn't played up to this point, how is that all of a sudden going to change??? If we argue that we have the talent on the O-line (and some have) then it's the coaching that is a failure.

And they failed the O-line by not hiring Alex Gibbs (zone blocking guru) in the off-season to coach the O-line. How in the hell can you say that your going to a zone blocking scheme and then don't hire the number one coach OF THAT SCHEME???????

Rocky#20
09-18-2013, 11:21 AM
Tomlin's answer doing yesterday's press conference about the fumble was when Paulson got up and walked away from the ball, Tomlin didn't think then that it was a fumble. He thought that if it had been a fumble Paulson would have tried to recover the ball.

JensK
09-18-2013, 11:24 AM
Tomlin's answer doing yesterday's press conference about the fumble was when Paulson got up and walked away from the ball, Tomlin didn't think then that it was a fumble. He thought that if it had been a fumble Paulson would have tried to recover the ball.

Which is a reasonable assumption, but there was no point on not at least trying to run a play to remove all doubt. I mean, it was quite clear, looking at the Bengals sideline, that Bengals contemplated throwing the red flag.

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 11:34 AM
The problem here is when the coach sends players out on the field ,none of them are looking at Ben to see if it's ok. This staff doesn't have a clue, poor game management is becoming more evident every game.

Trust me I'm not trying to be argumentative but I think those being substituted do see Ben because they are running onto the field towards the huddle, where Ben is. The question would be that the players are taught to listen to coaches, not to Ben. My point is as the leader of this team the players should look to Ben and trust his judgement as well.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-18-2013, 11:49 AM
Love hearing this but hear is the two problems in a nut shell:

1. Poor O-line play

2. Poor play calling by Haley

If the O-line hasn't played up to this point, how is that all of a sudden going to change??? If we argue that we have the talent on the O-line (and some have) then it's the coaching that is a failure.

And they failed the O-line by not hiring Alex Gibbs (zone blocking guru) in the off-season to coach the O-line. How in the hell can you say that your going to a zone blocking scheme and then don't hire the number one coach OF THAT SCHEME???????

The main issue has been red zone turnovers early in games when they could've jumped out to 2 score leads... and changed the complexion of the game.

The Oline play improved from week 1 to week 2... and continued improvement should be expected

The play calling has not been an issue as a whole... that's an overreaction when things don't work. Missed throws, drops, turnovers, and bad reads by RBs have been much much much much much much much bigger problems than play calling

You've made the dumb *** Alex Gibbs comment before. The guy ****ing retired. He was hired by Seattle a few years ago, and basically quit/retired before the season started.

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 11:52 AM
Tomlin's answer doing yesterday's press conference about the fumble was when Paulson got up and walked away from the ball, Tomlin didn't think then that it was a fumble. He thought that if it had been a fumble Paulson would have tried to recover the ball.

I'm more worried about this than I can express. How many times have coaches challenged plays and lost where the receiver jumped up and said "I didn't fumble", or "I caught the ball"? The coach has to be aware himself of what is happening on the field. Or if they are far enough on the play where you can't be certain, you defer first to your coaches up in the booth, and if there is no time to review, you defer to your captain on the field.

WindyCityShaker
09-18-2013, 12:00 PM
The main issue has been red zone turnovers early in games when they could've jumped out to 2 score leads... and changed the complexion of the game.
This

The Oline play improved from week 1 to week 2... and continued improvement should be expected

The play calling has not been an issue as a whole... that's an overreaction when things don't work. Missed throws, drops, turnovers, and bad reads by RBs have been much much much much much much much bigger problems than play calling
The OLine definitely improved, or at least played above their heads in game 2, who knows.

People overreact to the play calling because the bad plays (Cotchery reverse, or calling WR screens calling for your TE to get out and block when you KNOW he can't get out there OR block worth a crap) are really bad.

Minus some of the horrible PLAYS that were called I think the playcalling overall improved and hopefully continues to do so as the team continues to get better.

Speeed
09-18-2013, 12:20 PM
The problem is, this team has so many problems right now fixing one or two won't matter. Everyone is correct; there are time mismanagement issues, timeout issues, personnel issues, injury issues, scoring issues, red zone issues, coaching issues, play calling issues, motivation issues, turnover issues (on both sides of the ball), and penalty issues. It is like the perfect storm. Fix one or two, it won't matter. This is going to be a long couple of years.

I also honestly think many of the players are not as good as we would like to think. A few are, or can be, but over all I am starting to think it just might be a lack of talent is one of the issues holding this team back. It seems they don't play together as a team and lack motivation. One guy makes a great play, and two other guys promptly screw up.

I was one who said the team had issues in preseason. The same issues are here, and worse. Even if the team had won a game at this point I would still not be convinced they are a playoff contender. Although Baltimore and the Bengals looked weak their second games, they did improve. The Steelers, well . . . .

Speeed
09-18-2013, 12:24 PM
A third string TE loses the ball. He relies on said TE's reaction after the play to determine whether or not to run a quick play immediately to block the replay and review? Despite his experienced franchise QB desperately (and obviously) acting otherwise?

Wow.

This happened to the Steelers a few times before, standing around with a loose ball on the ground. Other teams never do that. Always, always, always account for the ball until it is handed to the ref or out of bounds. Ridiculous.


Tomlin's answer doing yesterday's press conference about the fumble was when Paulson got up and walked away from the ball, Tomlin didn't think then that it was a fumble. He thought that if it had been a fumble Paulson would have tried to recover the ball.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-18-2013, 12:32 PM
People overreact to the play calling because the bad plays (Cotchery reverse, or calling WR screens calling for your TE to get out and block when you KNOW he can't get out there OR block worth a crap) are really bad.

Minus some of the horrible PLAYS that were called I think the playcalling overall improved and hopefully continues to do so as the team continues to get better.

I agree with you completely

Clevelandsux
09-18-2013, 06:24 PM
Tomlin in game coaching has been obviously bad for awhile. Poor clock management, poor play calling. The steelers were down 10 points late in the game. I saw no sense of urgency. Don't you go no huddle, try to score fast as possible?

LASVEGASGUY
09-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Tomlin is still in his maturation stage in coaching...

7 freakin' years later? Enough excuses for Tomlin the douchebag needs to be fired.

questforSB7
09-18-2013, 10:20 PM
6 freakin' years later? Enough excuses for Tomlin the douchebag needs to be fired.



Dude, I'm NOT saying that they're aren't some things about Tomlin that bother me. But, Tomlin, like it or not has 63 wins in his first 6 seasons here....that's 10 + wins a season on average, and 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 Win. I think SOME here might say that is not all that bad of results for 6 seasons.

Dean Denton
09-18-2013, 10:30 PM
As much as l like Tomlin I have a lot of unanswered question about his resolve. He got all thoughts wins with Cowhers players and he hasn't really put much on this team to recognize his stamp. Besides his articulate post game speeches, he's not showing us much.

Get7With7
09-18-2013, 10:31 PM
As much as l like Tomlin I have a lot of unanswered question about his resolve. He got all thoughts wins with Cowhers players and he hasn't really put much on this team to recognize his stamp. Besides his articulate post game speeches, he's not showing us much.

He's not even doing that very well anymore. Comes off as someone who has no idea what he is doing.

LASVEGASGUY
09-19-2013, 12:11 AM
Dude, I'm NOT saying that they're aren't some things about Tomlin that bother me. But, Tomlin, like it or not has 63 wins in his first 6 seasons here....that's 10 + wins a season on average, and 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 Win. I think SOME here might say that is not all that bad of results for 6 seasons.

What was Barry Switzer record when taking over for Jimmy Johnson and the Super Bowl winning Cowboys? 34-14 before posting a 6-10 record and resigning. Did he forget how to coach just like that or was he admitting he was a fraud? The same thing is happening to Tomlin now but he won't admit he is a bum and didn't deserve the job.

Tomlin was handed a team full of veterans and a bunch already had a Super Bowl ring. In the beginning, he just had to allow Lebeau and Arians to do what they do. This equaled early success. Now that those veterans are gone, his drafts suck and he can't hire an assistant to save his life you get what we have gotten the last 14 games a 2-12 record. Don't let the bogus stats in the beginning cloud your judgement to the horrible coach we have patrolling the sidelines.

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 12:28 AM
What was Barry Switzer record when taking over for Jimmy Johnson and the Super Bowl winning Cowboys? 34-14 before posting a 6-10 record and resigning. Did he forget how to coach just like that or was he admitting he was a fraud? The same thing is happening to Tomlin now but he won't admit he is a bum and didn't deserve the job.

Tomlin was handed a team full of veterans and a bunch already had a Super Bowl ring. In the beginning, he just had to allow Lebeau and Arians to do what they do. This equaled early success. Now that those veterans are gone, his drafts suck and he can't hire an assistant to save his life you get what we have gotten the last 14 games a 2-12 record. Don't let the bogus stats in the beginning cloud your judgement to the horrible coach we have patrolling the sidelines.





If Tomlin Inherated such a TALENTED team from Cowher, then why did Cowher go just 8-8 with this talent in his final seaon ?
If our success was all due to Dick Lebeau & Bruce Arians...then why didn't we win it all in 2007, Tomlin's first season ?
Face it dude, your point is CLUELESS!!

NYCsteelersfan
09-19-2013, 01:04 AM
If Tomlin Inherated such a TALENTED team from Cowher, then why did Cowher go just 8-8 with this talent in his final seaon ?
If our success was all due to Dick Lebeau & Bruce Arians...then why didn't we win it all in 2007, Tomlin's first season ?
Face it dude, your point is CLUELESS!!


Maybe because his star quarterback started the season shaky after surviving a near death motorcycle accident followed by an emergency appendectomy that resulted in him missing 4 games?

Write less and try to make valid points.

Big T
09-19-2013, 02:43 AM
Maybe because his star quarterback started the season shaky after surviving a near death motorcycle accident followed by an emergency appendectomy that resulted in him missing 4 games?

Write less and try to make valid points.

So Cowher gets a pass for '06 because of Ben's injuries, but not Tomlin for last season?

coldrolled
09-19-2013, 08:09 AM
So Cowher gets a pass for '06 because of Ben's injuries, but not Tomlin for last season?

Ding Ding.... Ben still hasn't snapped out of it.

NYCsteelersfan
09-19-2013, 12:16 PM
So Cowher gets a pass for '06 because of Ben's injuries, but not Tomlin for last season?


That's fine. Let's give him a pass for all of last season. Let's see what he does this season with a healthy Roethlisberger. 0-2 so far.

NYCsteelersfan
09-19-2013, 12:16 PM
Ding Ding.... Ben still hasn't snapped out of it.


lol whatever helps you sleep at night.

coldrolled
09-19-2013, 12:21 PM
lol whatever helps you sleep at night.

Whatever, I watched ben miss his receivers like Sanchez would in NY... Over, Wide, Under...

I hope Ben hits all his receivers this week and we move forward from this nightmare of a start....

NYCsteelersfan
09-19-2013, 12:26 PM
Whatever, I watched ben miss his receivers like Sanchez would in NY... Over, Wide, Under...

I hope Ben hits all his receivers this week and we move forward from this nightmare of a start....

Sure thing. As long as Roethlisberger has a 75% completion percentage, then we'll win. good luck.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 12:35 PM
Whatever, I watched ben miss his receivers like Sanchez would in NY... Over, Wide, Under...

I hope Ben hits all his receivers this week and we move forward from this nightmare of a start....

same here

steelchamp204
09-19-2013, 01:01 PM
Whatever, I watched ben miss his receivers like Sanchez would in NY... Over, Wide, Under...

I hope Ben hits all his receivers this week and we move forward from this nightmare of a start....

This. BUT, Ben cant do no wrong on this forum. He is perfect.

Real Deal Steel
09-19-2013, 01:05 PM
More Wheaton, less Cotchery.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 01:08 PM
More Wheaton, less Cotchery.

Not sure why anyone would want less Cotch.... he's been the only WR he can consistently get open.... oh right, he had 2 bad drops, and a stupid end around...

if you want changes at WR, you should want Sanders off the field... he's garbage

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 01:26 PM
Not sure why anyone would want less Cotch.... he's been the only WR he can consistently get open.... oh right, he had 2 bad drops, and a stupid end around...

if you want changes at WR, you should want Sanders off the field... he's garbage




Huh ? WTF! ? Garbage ? That Garbage WR...even as BAD as our offense has been right now is on pace for 96 catches for over 1,100 Yds. How exactly is that Garbage ?

LatrobePA
09-19-2013, 01:26 PM
Whatever, I watched ben miss his receivers like Sanchez would in NY... Over, Wide, Under...

I hope Ben hits all his receivers this week and we move forward from this nightmare of a start....

This....

steelchamp204
09-19-2013, 01:28 PM
Huh ? WTF! ? Garbage ? That Garbage WR...even as BAD as our offense has been right now is on pace for 96 catches for over 1,100 Yds. How exactly is that Garbage ?

Yes, and EJ Manuel is on pace to have a better season than Ben. :lol:

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 01:31 PM
Yes, and EJ Manuel is on pace to have a better season than Ben. :lol:




Yes he is, and he might. He was the 1st QB selected, so he is SUPPOSED to be a Franchise QB. Bottom line is, WR's who get over 90 catches and 1100 Yds are NOT considered garbage. Name me one who ever got those type of numbers for a season, who were then refered to as GARBAGE...Go ahead...name him ?

steelchamp204
09-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Yes he is, and he might. He was the 1st QB selected, so he is SUPPOSED to be a Franchise QB. Bottom line is, WR's who get over 90 catches and 1100 Yds are NOT considered garbage. Name me one who ever got those type of numbers for a season, who were then refered to as GARBAGE...Go ahead...name him ?

You obviously didn't see the sarcasm intended in the post I originally stated. The season is not even a quarter of the way through. There is still a lot of football to be played. I also never said he was "garbage", just laughing at the fact that you get tilted over the stupidest things sometimes.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 01:58 PM
Huh ? WTF! ? Garbage ? That Garbage WR...even as BAD as our offense has been right now is on pace for 96 catches for over 1,100 Yds. How exactly is that Garbage ?

on pace??? are you being serious? cool, Eddie Royal is on pace for 40 TDs and Desean Jackson is on pace for 2400 yards...
on pace, after week 2.... is totally meaningless... Andre Roberts is on the same pace... whooppity doo da
did you forget that Sanders is on pace for ZERO TDs too?

here's a news flash, a starting Split End, being on pace for 1100 yards, isn't all that impressive...

it's clear that looking up stats is the only window you have into talent...

Sanders drops too many balls (that makes him gabage)
Sanders never comes up with the big catch (that makes him garbage)
Sanders struggles to beat press coverage (that makes him garbage)
Sanders has not improved his route tree (that makes him garbage)

Sanders is a generic #3 WR....

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 01:59 PM
Yes he is, and he might. He was the 1st QB selected, so he is SUPPOSED to be a Franchise QB. Bottom line is, WR's who get over 90 catches and 1100 Yds are NOT considered garbage. Name me one who ever got those type of numbers for a season, who were then refered to as GARBAGE...Go ahead...name him ?

Kevin Curtis, Lee Evans, Eddie Kennison, Chris Chambers, Braylon Edwards, Bobby Engram, Laverneus Coles, Michael Clayton, Drew Bennet, Ashley Lelie, Marty Booker, Koren Robinson

... but lets talk when Sanders actually finishes with 1100

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 02:14 PM
Kevin Curtis, Lee Evans, Eddie Kennison, Chris Chambers, Braylon Edwards, Bobby Engram, Laverneus Coles, Michael Clayton, Drew Bennet, Ashley Lelie, Marty Booker, Koren Robinson

... but lets talk when Sanders actually finishes with 1100





I agree that Sanders does not score alot of TD's. That is one reason why I always said Wallace was a great WR. And NOT just a deep route WR like some claimed here. Wallace cleaely disproved that last weekend with 9 catches for 115 Yds, ALL of them over the middle of the field. But Wallace DID Catch TD's for us. Sanders may not score alot of TD's, but neither does Antonio Brown...is HE Garbage ? And HE makes 10 times what Sanders does. When you consider that our WR's don't get the time to get down the field like other QB's and WR's have because their O-Lines actually PROTECT their QB...I can't totally Blame Sanders, or anyone else on our roster. But Sanders is NOT Garbage. Now, you wanna talk GARBAGE at the WR position...look no further then Darius Heyward-Bey....now HE is PURE GARBAGE! But that cannot be said of Sanders...not yet. Now with that said, would I try to trade Sanders ?...HELL YES! A team like the Patriots, who tried to get Sanders, given their current situation I think would easily give a 2nd round draft pick for him. And since it is likely that the Steelers WON'T re-sign Sanders after this season...why not get something for him ? But he is NOT Garbage. Otherwise a team like the Patriots wouldn't have signed him for 2.5 million dollars, and gladly surrendered their 3rd rounder from this past draft.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 02:30 PM
I agree that Sanders does not score alot of TD's. That is one reason why I always said Wallace was a great WR. And NOT just a deep route WR like some claimed here. Wallace cleaely disproved that last weekend with 9 catches for 115 Yds, ALL of them over the middle of the field.

wrong.
You do know that "All", means "All" right? or maybe you don't know what "over the middle" means?


But Wallace DID Catch TD's for us. Sanders may not score alot of TD's, but neither does Antonio Brown...is HE Garbage ? And HE makes 10 times what Sanders does. When you consider that our WR's don't get the time to get down the field like other QB's and WR's have because their O-Lines actually PROTECT their QB...I can't totally Blame Sanders, or anyone else on our roster.

Actually Sanders inability to beat press coverage is an even bigger problem in Ben getting hit and holding the ball too long, than the Oline is right now.

You should place a lot of blame on Sanders right now for the failure of the offense in the first 2 weeks. He deserves it.



But Sanders is NOT Garbage. Now, you wanna talk GARBAGE at the WR position...look no further then Darius Heyward-Bey....now HE is PURE GARBAGE! But that cannot be said of Sanders...not yet.

another example of stat sheets driving the entire opinion.
(I agree that Heyward-Bey is garbage, but it's clear that you look at stats and think they tell the whole story)


Now with that said, would I try to trade Sanders ?...HELL YES! A team like the Patriots, who tried to get Sanders, given their current situation I think would easily give a 2nd round draft pick for him. And since it is likely that the Steelers WON'T re-sign Sanders after this season...why not get something for him ? But he is NOT Garbage. Otherwise a team like the Patriots wouldn't have signed him for 2.5 million dollars, and gladly surrendered their 3rd rounder from this past draft.

The Patriots sign tons of garbage WRs, and they make it work with an elite QB
(Dante Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, etc)

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 02:42 PM
Neil, if Sanders wasn't getting off the line like you said, Ben wouldn't have had the time to find him 13 times...so far. Now, is Sanders Dez Bryant or Boldin coming off the Line ?..No, of course not. But he is NOT the reason why our offense is struggling. That is just plain ridiculous. You really think that YOU know more then Tomlin, and Ben ? Ben who has continuely said Sanders is the BEST Route running WR with the BEST hands that they have ? But all this is redundent cause like I said...I WOULD trade Sanders. If not right now, within 2 weeks. The Patriots are not alone. There are several teams that WOULD want Sanders, and can use him to get them close to being over the top as it goes to making a playoff run. That CANNOT be argued with. So Sanders is not garbage. When the HIGHEST Scoring. most effective Offensive team in the past 25 years wants you this past off-season...that proves Sanders is NOT Garbage Neil.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 02:51 PM
Neil, if Sanders wasn't getting off the line like you said, Ben wouldn't have had the time to find him 13 times...so far.

Dumb
Teams don't press on every snap



Now, is Sanders Dez Bryant or Boldin coming off the Line ?..No, of course not. But he is NOT the reason why our offense is struggling. That is just plain ridiculous. You really think that YOU know more then Tomlin, and Ben ? Ben who has continuely said Sanders is the BEST Route running WR with the BEST hands that they have ?

I don't care what people "say". **** like that is said about players every year... but feel free to post a single quote that says "Sanders is the best...." at anything. There has been a lot of praise for him. But anyone who thinks he runs better Routes than Brown is bonkers.

Sanders is one of the reasons the passing game is struggling. He's getting eaten up in single coverage, and it allows teams to play stronger zones taking away the middle of the field. Every comment you make about Sanders is something that could be gleaned from NFL.com



But all this is redundent cause like I said...I WOULD trade Sanders. If not right now, within 2 weeks. The Patriots are not alone. There are several teams that WOULD want Sanders, and can use him to get them close to being over the top as it goes to making a playoff run. That CANNOT be argued with. So Sanders is not garbage. When the HIGHEST Scoring. most effective Offensive team in the past 25 years wants you this past off-season...that proves Sanders is NOT Garbage Neil.

So, the Patriots trading for Albert Haynesworth proved he wasn't garbage? oh wait, they cut him
The Patriots trade for a5th and 6th for a total garbage Chad Ochocinco...
The signed a completely busted and done Joey Galloway... i guess that proves that he wasn't garbage at the time?

What you think is PROOF.... is actually only proof that you're dumb

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 03:00 PM
Haynesworth doesn't play Offense. Chad actually HELPED them for a season, so I don't get your point there. And Galloway was just a CHANCE. It didn't cost them anything. But bottom line, it doesn't matter if you're right on Sanders or not. The BOTTOM line is I AM RIGHT by saying that The Patriots WOULD give us a 2nd rounder for Sanders. I mean they offered up their 3rd rounder before the season. But now, they are in considerably bad shape as it goes to WR help. And even IF Amendola returns...that doesn't guarantee you that he won't go down again. And if they are HOPING that their rookie WR's...rookies who were NOT very highly thought of coming out are gonna make more of a difference then a established E.Sanders then you're Crazy Neil. You may believe Sanders is GARBAGE....But, he is Garbage that can get us a high draft pick for 2014.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Haynesworth doesn't play Offense. Chad actually HELPED them for a season, so I don't get your point there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


(mad props trollinator, that was incredible, you are the best at what you do)




And Galloway was just a CHANCE. It didn't cost them anything. But bottom line, it doesn't matter if you're right on Sanders or not. The BOTTOM line is I AM RIGHT by saying that The Patriots WOULD give us a 2nd rounder for Sanders. I mean they offered up their 3rd rounder before the season.

COOL. so when the Patriots do not trade us a 2nd rounder for him, we can say you were wrong. sweet.

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 03:08 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


(mad props trollinator, that was incredible, you are the best at what you do)





COOL. so when the Patriots do not trade us a 2nd rounder for him, we can say you were wrong. sweet.





No, we can say YOU were wrong. Or does the GREAT Neil know more then these numbers PROVE!!!


http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/17/4234986/ben-roethlisberger-excited-emmanuel-sanders-return-steelers

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 03:15 PM
Cool. Those numbers prove he's really good in the slot as a #3 WR

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 03:22 PM
Cool. Those numbers prove he's really good in the slot as a #3 WR




It also proved that he IS the Steelers MOST productive WR...Didn't it ? And in the Patriots system, they have a way of getting the most out of Athletic, or smaller WR's like Sanders. I mean Welker, Lloyd, ect. That is why they offered a 3rd rounder for him. So lets say they refuse to offer a 2nd rounder, but a 3rd...you're saying you wouldn't take it ? Or are you saying that even with the Patriots being in a bad way WR wise...you DON'T think they would even offer up a 2014 3rd rounder to get Sanders now ? What are you saying ?

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 03:30 PM
It also proved that he IS the Steelers MOST productive WR...Didn't it ?

no it didn't, that would be Antonio Brown, the one who has TWICE as many yards, catches, and TDs over the last 2 seasons

:facepalm:



And in the Patriots system, they have a way of getting the most out of Athletic, or smaller WR's like Sanders. I mean Welker, Lloyd, ect. That is why they offered a 3rd rounder for him. So lets say they refuse to offer a 2nd rounder, but a 3rd...you're saying you wouldn't take it ? Or are you saying that even with the Patriots being in a bad way WR wise...you DON'T think they would even offer up a 2014 3rd rounder to get Sanders now ? What are you saying ?

I would take ANY pick they offered... since Sanders is going to walk as a free agent anyways (we dont have cap space to re-sign him). They should've taken the 3rd compensation.

And after the Pats invested 2 picks in WRs in the draft... it's very unlikely they'd invest ANOTHER pick AND more salary in a WR.

No, i don't think the Pats will offer anything for Sanders in season. There is a huge difference between trying to get him before camp and before the draft, when they could've had him in the system for months LEARNING... and used their picks elsewhere... but that sort of detail is too much for you to comprehend

The Pats wont trade for Sanders (now)... you can bank on it

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 03:41 PM
no it didn't, that would be Antonio Brown, the one who has TWICE as many yards, catches, and TDs over the last 2 seasons

:facepalm:



I would take ANY pick they offered... since Sanders is going to walk as a free agent anyways (we dont have cap space to re-sign him). They should've taken the 3rd compensation.

And after the Pats invested 2 picks in WRs in the draft... it's very unlikely they'd invest ANOTHER pick AND more salary in a WR.

No, i don't think the Pats will offer anything for Sanders in season. There is a huge difference between trying to get him before camp and before the draft, when they could've had him in the system for months LEARNING... and used their picks elsewhere... but that sort of detail is too much for you to comprehend

The Pats wont trade for Sanders (now)... you can bank on it





So the Patriots Invested 2 draft picks into WR...WHat difference does that make ? Draft choices don't always guarantee success. Sanders IS a proven WR. Moss was a 4th round talent that New England selected two rounds too high. NO ONE had Moss going nearly that high. And as for their other WR Boyce, he's not even on their roster. He has been a HUGE disappointment. I mean by your logic, you would have been saying BEFORE it happened that the Colts would NEVER send a 1st rounder for Richardson when they already used a draft pick this last draft to select a RB....Right Neil. I mean that IS what you just stated isn't it.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-19-2013, 03:47 PM
So the Patriots Invested 2 draft picks into WR...WHat difference does that make ? Draft choices don't always guarantee success. Sanders IS a proven WR. Moss was a 4th round talent that New England selected two rounds too high. NO ONE had Moss going nearly that high. And as for their other WR Boyce, he's not even on their roster.

Who is Moss? You mean Dobson?
And the also have Thompkins now

Draft pick allocation is a big deal. They've invested picks and development time into 3 WRs. That changes their position in terms of investing a pick in trade. Im sure this doesn't make sense to you, but I can assure you it's true.


He has been a HUGE disappointment. I mean by your logic, you would have been saying BEFORE it happened that the Colts would NEVER send a 1st rounder for Richardson when they already used a draft pick this last draft to select a RB....Right Neil. I mean that IS what you just stated isn't it.

I guess that would make sense in your delusional world.... but what you just did was compare Emmanuel Sanders value to Trent Richardson, the #3 overall pick in the draft last year...

good work.

keep it coming, i'll be back for some laughs later this afternoon. I'm hoping for some good ones.... like when you said Chad Ochocinco helped the Patriots.

questforSB7
09-19-2013, 04:01 PM
Who is Moss? You mean Dobson?
And the also have Thompkins now

Draft pick allocation is a big deal. They've invested picks and development time into 3 WRs. That changes their position in terms of investing a pick in trade. Im sure this doesn't make sense to you, but I can assure you it's true.



I guess that would make sense in your delusional world.... but what you just did was compare Emmanuel Sanders value to Trent Richardson, the #3 overall pick in the draft last year...

good work.

keep it coming, i'll be back for some laughs later this afternoon. I'm hoping for some good ones.... like when you said Chad Ochocinco helped the Patriots.




Yes Dobson. Sorry I had Moss on the mind cause they both went to Marshall. As far as Investing on WR's, so that means they wouldn't trade a draft pick now is ridiculous. I mean I MIGHT agree with you if the Pats were a young team that WASN'T ready to compete for a Super Bowl. But they are, But their MAIN weapon ( Brady )...is quickley coming to an end of his career. And if they feel that Brady won't be what he is now when those rookies are ready, they will wanna INVEST in a Vet WR that CAN Jump start their woeful offense Neil. Especially when their two BEST offensive option are Injured, and subject to further Injuries even when they do return. I think they would want Sanders...you don't. But until the Steelers management actually GROWS a brain, and puts Sanders out on the market...we will never know. I suspect the BRAIN DEAD Rooney's will just keep him, then let him walk away for nothing, then CHEER their AZZES off in 2015 when we receive a Comp pick in the 6th or 7th round for him.

DanRooney
09-20-2013, 01:03 AM
Just sitting here watching the game from last night. It took 29 seconds from when Paulson was tackled to when the Bungles threw the red flag. You could tell that Ben was going to run a quick play, but something happened. I propose that Haley or Tomlin had money on the game, and it was not on the black and gold. Either that or they are literally (and I am not kidding here) the stupidest mother ****ers on the face of the earth. I can take losing to a team with more talent, i really can. But when your coaches are ****ing retards... well that is just not acceptable. Seriously, I know as much as any guy that has never played "real" football and I knew the Steelers should hurry up. Why didnt Tomlin/Haley?

I've been saying this about Tomlin since 2009. Now it's the popular thing to do around here. Oh how things changed.

DanRooney
09-20-2013, 03:38 PM
So Cowher gets a pass for '06 because of Ben's injuries, but not Tomlin for last season?

I think the motorcycle accident and emergency appendectomy takes it in terms of severity. Especially when Ben had an December, the rest of the offseason, and 4 preseason games to heal. I think he's 100 percent by now.

coldrolled
09-20-2013, 04:01 PM
And in the Patriots system, they have a way of getting the most out of Athletic, or smaller WR's like Sanders. I mean Welker, Lloyd, ect.

Brady can throw quick short and fast... Its not the system. Its the QB.

Ben is missing everyone... that's the QB..

Lets see how the team fairs when Ben comes around...

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Brady can throw quick short and fast... Its not the system. Its the QB.

Ben is missing everyone... that's the QB..

Lets see how the team fairs when Ben comes around...




If that is true, then why when Brady was hurt for the entire season, the Patriots offense didn't miss a beat with a Undrafted QB that season ? If it's all Brady, and he is so great, why is he barely completing 52 % of his passes, and why does their Offense suck as much as ours ?

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 04:24 PM
If that is true, then why when Brady was hurt for the entire season, the Patriots offense didn't miss a beat with a Undrafted QB that season ?

the same reason the Steelers started 3-1 when Ben was suspended, on their way to the superbowl in 2010

or the same reason that Steelers backups (Maddox, Batch, Leftwich, Dixon) are 12-6 over the course of Ben's career

Ben win % = 68%
Ben Backup win % = 66%

oh... you don't like your argument anymore?

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 04:44 PM
the same reason the Steelers started 3-1 when Ben was suspended, on their way to the superbowl in 2010
or the same reason that Steelers backups (Maddox, Batch, Leftwich, Dixon) are 12-6 over the course of Ben's career

Ben win % = 68%
Ben Backup win % = 66%

oh... you don't like your argument anymore?






Really, the same reason ? Dude, when Brady got hurt that first game and the TOTALLY Inexperienced, never took a single SNAP Matt Cassell played, the Patriots OFFENSE didn't Lag one single bit.


In those four games in 2010, after them, the Steelers had the WORST Passing Offense in the NFL Hommie Neil!! Against Atlanta in the first game, Dixon completed 40 % of his passes, with NO TD's and 1 Interception/ In the second game against Tennessee...our QB's combined for 43 TOTAL YARDS! and didn't score a single TD other then Antonio's kickoff return TD.
And the Tampa game was the ONLY game that our QB ( Batch ) did okay, and I mean just okay. He threw for like 170 yards, but had 3 TD's, but 2 Interceptions. We ONLY won that game cause we RUSHED for over 200 yards, and because Keisel had like a 90 yard Interception return.



Dude, are you Serious! ? You're gonna compare what those SCRUBS did in 2010 to what Cassell and the Pats did when Brady got hurt ?



Neil...Grow a F'ING BRAIN already!!

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 04:52 PM
Really, the same reason ?

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah

Yes, the same reason

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 04:54 PM
Yes, the same reason





You're just Incapable of saying you're wrong. I FLAT OUT Prove you wrong, and you just side-step the reply. Typical Myopic poster.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 04:56 PM
You're just Incapable of saying you're wrong. I FLAT OUT Prove you wrong, and you just side-step the reply. Typical Myopic poster.

yes, you're wrong. we agree

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 05:12 PM
You're just Incapable of saying you're wrong. I FLAT OUT Prove you wrong, and you just side-step the reply. Typical Myopic poster.


You did flat out prove him wrong, but he's a pompous and condescending piece of... Most annoying member on this forum. He cherry picks stats and once he can no longer cherry pick, he resorts to an ad hominen argument. Pathetic.

Trying to say the system in Pittsburgh is just as good as New England, but the results are different because Brady is so much better, which he is definitely better, but New England's system is on a completely different level independent of quarterback talent. That fact was proven by what Cassel did. Luck'sBanana tried cherry picking win/loss stats to argue otherwise, but of course his argument is trash because aside from wins and losses, Cassel's stats after taking over were on par with Brady's stats. Meanwhile Leftwich, Batch and Dixon played the position exactly how most backups play the position, like $hit. Their stats never came close to matching Roetglisberger's stats.


The hidden agenda was obvious since day one and he just keeps on with it.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 05:31 PM
You did flat out prove him wrong, but he's a pompous and condescending piece of... Most annoying member on this forum. He cherry picks stats and once he can no longer cherry pick, he resorts to an ad hominen argument. Pathetic.

You don't prove someone wrong by using a generic big picture statement (cassel won with NE), and then with confronted with a similar big picture statement (other backups winning with good teams), then dismiss the rebuttal by digging into anecdotal pieces of information, the type of which you never presented at the forefront of your argument where you simply presented a "larger picture" idea.


Trying to say the system in Pittsburgh is just as good as New England, but the results are different because Brady is so much better, which he is definitely better, but New England's system is on a completely different level independent of quarterback talent. That fact was proven by what Cassel did.

1. I never said the system in Pittsburgh was anywhere near as good
2. we agree... Brady is definitely better
3. we agree... New England is on a different level as a coaching staff
4. It's a fact based on the entirety of the results, not by what Cassel did. What Cassel did, and what other backups have done, is prove that good teams can still win games a fair share of games with their backups. This same fact was proven by what the Steelers backups have done. Are you going to present that what Cassel did was also with a team full of pro bowlers? A team with a top 10 rushing game? A team with a top 10 defense? Oh... you weren't?

Note: The Patriots missed the playoffs that year... had Brady been healthy they wouldn't have... just like the Steelers wouldn't have last year if Ben didn't get injured.


Luck'sBanana tried cherry picking win/loss stats to argue otherwise, but of course his argument is trash because aside from wins and losses, Cassel's stats after taking over were on par with Brady's stats. Meanwhile Leftwich, Batch and Dixon played the position exactly how most backups play the position, like $hit. Their stats never came close to matching Roetglisberger's stats.

Providing win/loss stats over a 10 year period... isn't really cherry picking (unless you simply don't know what cherry picking is)

But if QB stats like yards and TDs is the measure you want to use to prove things about QBs... be my guest, it sure doesn't support your "Roethlisberger is god" complex.



If the argument is which team has a better coaching staff, and system in place... the answer is obvious, the Pats do

The hidden agenda was obvious since day one and he just keeps on with it.

yea, the ol' "he hates Ben" hidden agenda :sleepy:

quick question... since you are the expert on the definition of "ball washing", would you agree that you are a Roethlisberger Ball Washer? Or Does love of one's own teams QB, negate the Ball Washing elements?

And in case you want some future material, im all over Brett Hundley's balls this weekend... ****ing love those balls.

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 05:41 PM
You don't prove someone wrong by using a generic big picture statement (cassel won with NE), and then with confronted with a similar big picture statement (other backups winning with good teams), then dismiss the rebuttal by digging into anecdotal pieces of information, the type of which you never presented at the forefront of your argument where you simply presented a "larger picture" idea.



1. I never said the system in Pittsburgh was anywhere near as good
2. we agree... Brady is definitely better
3. we agree... New England is on a different level as a coaching staff
4. It's a fact based on the entirety of the results, not by what Cassel did. What Cassel did, and what other backups have done, is prove that good teams can still win games a fair share of games with their backups. This same fact was proven by what the Steelers backups have done. Are you going to present that what Cassel did was also with a team full of pro bowlers? A team with a top 10 rushing game? A team with a top 10 defense? Oh... you weren't?

Note: The Patriots missed the playoffs that year... had Brady been healthy they wouldn't have... just like the Steelers wouldn't have last year if Ben didn't get injured.



Providing win/loss stats over a 10 year period... isn't really cherry picking (unless you simply don't know what cherry picking is)

But if QB stats like yards and TDs is the measure you want to use to prove things about QBs... be my guest, it sure doesn't support your "Roethlisberger is god" complex.



If the argument is which team has a better coaching staff, and system in place... the answer is obvious, the Pats do


yea, the ol' "he hates Ben" hidden agenda :sleepy:

quick question... since you are the expert on the definition of "ball washing", would you agree that you are a Roethlisberger Ball Washer? Or Does love of one's own teams QB, negate the Ball Washing elements?

And in case you want some future material, im all over Brett Hundley's balls this weekend... ****ing love those balls.

Everyone on this forum already knows you are exactly what I say you are. I'll leave it at that before your boy K-Train decides to give me another infraction for "insulting another member." Obviously there is ball washing going on on this forum and it's not just between members and players.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 05:46 PM
Everyone on this forum already knows you are exactly what I say you are. I'll leave it at that before your boy K-Train decides to give me another infraction for "insulting another member." Obviously there is ball washing going on on this forum and it's not just between members and players.

It's really important to you to believe that... I understand

But can you clarify my question. Are you in fact a Ben Ball Washer? My understanding of Ball Washing, based on your astute comments over the last year... is that heaping high praise on a player, is Ball Washing... so, you would in fact be a Ben ball washer, right?

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 05:48 PM
Bottom line fellas, this back & forth stuff is never gonna be decided til Ben gets traded, or signs with another team. A team that actually believes in protecting their QB. Or taking advantage of the gifts that QB has, like how the Colts/Denver has done for Manning. Or how the Pats have for Brady, and Green Bay with Rodgers. Cause once that happens, and I don't want Ben gone from Pittsburgh, but on the other hand I would like to see Ben under those other QB's situations..and watch Ben make all the ones who thinks HE'S our problem here..Eat their words while Ben throws for over 5,500 Yds, on 78 % completion percentage, 40-45 TD's with at MOST...5-7 picks.


Cause I guarantee you Ben can easily do that. Just not here with this stupid Idiotic coaching staff, and their outdated Philosophies.

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 05:50 PM
It's really important to you to believe that... I understand

But can you clarify my question. Are you in fact a Ben Ball Washer? My understanding of Ball Washing, based on your astute comments over the last year... is that heaping high praise on a player, is Ball Washing... so, you would in fact be a Ben ball washer, right?

Ball washing is saying a rookie QB is better than a two time SB champion QB after the rookie QB has played only a handful of games. That's a good working definition of ball washing. So if someone said last season after week 3 that Andrew Luck is a better QB than Ben Roethlisberger, then that person is most likely an Andrew Luck ball washer and $!#& sucker.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 06:01 PM
Ball washing is saying a rookie QB is better than a two time SB champion QB after the rookie QB has played only a handful of games. That's a good working definition of ball washing. So if someone said last season after week 3 that Andrew Luck is a better QB than Ben Roethlisberger, then that person is most likely an Andrew Luck ball washer and $!#& sucker.

That's because you have difficulty with the difference between measuring talent/skill verses "ranking" QBs based on their career.

I said Luck is more talented which is a subjective opinion of skill, not a measure of success.

2 Super Bowl rings isn't a shield

Jadaveon Clowney is more talented than Lamaar Woodley

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 06:03 PM
Bottom line fellas, this back & forth stuff is never gonna be decided til Ben gets traded, or signs with another team. A team that actually believes in protecting their QB. Or taking advantage of the gifts that QB has, like how the Colts/Denver has done for Manning. Or how the Pats have for Brady, and Green Bay with Rodgers. Cause once that happens, and I don't want Ben gone from Pittsburgh, but on the other hand I would like to see Ben under those other QB's situations..and watch Ben make all the ones who thinks HE'S our problem here..Eat their words while Ben throws for over 5,500 Yds, on 78 % completion percentage, 40-45 TD's with at MOST...5-7 picks.


Cause I guarantee you Ben can easily do that. Just not here with this stupid Idiotic coaching staff, and their outdated Philosophies.

Sounds like ball washing

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 06:13 PM
Sounds like ball washing




cNeil, I'm NOT a kid like you and NYCSteeler....Please sir, I prefer the term... " Knob Polisher ":lol:

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 06:22 PM
That's because you have difficulty with the difference between measuring talent/skill verses "ranking" QBs based on their career.

I said Luck is more talented which is a subjective opinion of skill, not a measure of success.

2 Super Bowl rings isn't a shield

Jadaveon Clowney is more talented than Lamaar Woodley


Stop beating around the bush. Using the term "talented" rather than "better" is simply your way of keeping forum members from recognizing you for what you are. You don't think Luck is just more talented. You think he's better. If I'm wrong, then say so: say "wrong. I think Roethlisberger is a better QB than Andrew Luck."

NeilPatrickBanana
09-20-2013, 07:38 PM
Stop beating around the bush. Using the term "talented" rather than "better" is simply your way of keeping forum members from recognizing you for what you are. You don't think Luck is just more talented. You think he's better. If I'm wrong, then say so: say "wrong. I think Roethlisberger is a better QB than Andrew Luck."

As I've said many times... I think you can judge QBs simply on talent (Luck is more talented than Ben), but if you want discuss QBs on a more tangible level, and "rank them" overall, then you need to take into account the entire picture. I've defined the entire picture before:
1. Talent (40% ) - skills
2. Recent Performance (30%) - wins, stats, etc
3. Accolades (20%) - rings, etc
4. Intangibles (10%) - leadership, clutch, etc

I rank Ben ahead of Luck (today)... even though Luck is more talented

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 07:49 PM
As I've said many times... I think you can judge QBs simply on talent (Luck is more talented than Ben), but if you want discuss QBs on a more tangible level, and "rank them" overall, then you need to take into account the entire picture. I've defined the entire picture before:
1. Talent (40% ) - skills
2. Recent Performance (30%) - wins, stats, etc
3. Accolades (20%) - rings, etc
4. Intangibles (10%) - leadership, clutch, etc

I rank Ben ahead of Luck (today)... even though Luck is more talented


lol still beating around the bush. Let's try this: if you had to choose a QB to start this season for Pittsburgh, and only for one season, would you take Roethlisberger or Luck?

questforSB7
09-20-2013, 07:54 PM
lol still beating around the bush. Let's try this: if you had to choose a QB to start this season for Pittsburgh, and only for one season, would you take Roethlisberger or Luck?




Right now as is I would easily agree, it's Ben. But Neil does have a point. Based on his accomplishments coming out of Stanford...which were WAY better then Ben's coming out of a small school playing way less talented opponents. Based on his accuracy, and his better Athleticism...YES, I agree, Luck has more TALENT POTENTIAL! But, until he builds a long standing resume, it's still only Potential. But the Talent IS there with Luck, and, if both were the same age right now, I think I would have to go with Luck over Ben. I'm talking about IF Both were just out of their respected colleges. Not knowing anything else.

NYCsteelersfan
09-20-2013, 08:03 PM
Right now as is I would easily agree, it's Ben. But Neil does have a point. Based on his accomplishments coming out of Stanford...which were WAY better then Ben's coming out of a small school playing way less talented opponents. Based on his accuracy, and his better Athleticism...YES, I agree, Luck has more TALENT POTENTIAL! But, until he builds a long standing resume, it's still only Potential. But the Talent IS there with Luck, and, if both were the same age right now, I think I would have to go with Luck over Ben. I'm talking about IF Both were just out of their respected colleges. Not knowing anything else.


That's fair. I'm not saying I agree or disagree. The real question is whether certain people on this board feel the team is actually hurting as a result of Roethlisberger's play or if the Roethlisberger's play is hurting because of his team. People like Luck'sBanana believe the former is true. Luck may be more talented and have more potential, especially taking age into consideration, but what would the Steelers be doing with Luck as quarterback? Better, the same or worse? And since you can't do worse than 0-2, my answer is the same. I know what Luck'sBanana thinks.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-21-2013, 12:14 AM
lol still beating around the bush. Let's try this: if you had to choose a QB to start this season for Pittsburgh, and only for one season, would you take Roethlisberger or Luck?

while i find your narrow hypothetical pointless, i'll indulge you:
1 season, and only one season, and today... i'd take Ben (experience matters when it comes to results)

but since your hypothetical is pointless and does not represent anything in the real world... i will feed your belief, and make clear that i would trade Ben for Luck. obviously.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-21-2013, 12:18 AM
That's fair. I'm not saying I agree or disagree. The real question is whether certain people on this board feel the team is actually hurting as a result of Roethlisberger's play or if the Roethlisberger's play is hurting because of his team. People like Luck'sBanana believe the former is true. Luck may be more talented and have more potential, especially taking age into consideration, but what would the Steelers be doing with Luck as quarterback? Better, the same or worse? And since you can't do worse than 0-2, my answer is the same. I know what Luck'sBanana thinks.

the 2 statements are not mutually exclusive. Yes, the team has been hurting because of Ben's poor play.... and yes, Ben's play is being affected by the poor play around him.

Ben is playing poorly, so is the team, only ball washers continually make excuses for Ben's poor play over the last ~6 Regular season starts

thanks for acknowledging that Luck is more talented... thats a step in the right direction

NYCsteelersfan
09-21-2013, 12:39 AM
the 2 statements are not mutually exclusive. Yes, the team has been hurting because of Ben's poor play.... and yes, Ben's play is being affected by the poor play around him.

Ben is playing poorly, so is the team, only ball washers continually make excuses for Ben's poor play over the last ~6 Regular season starts

thanks for acknowledging that Luck is more talented... thats a step in the right direction


They are mutually exclusive in my opinion. You can say otherwise. I never acknowledged any such thing about Luck. I'm sure you got turned on for a moment at the thought of someone else praising your loverboy, huh?

NeilPatrickBanana
09-21-2013, 09:25 AM
They are mutually exclusive in my opinion.

Because you like washing and patting dry Ben's balls.

LatrobePA
09-21-2013, 09:46 AM
Because you like washing and patting dry Ben's balls.

Patting?? Lol why not blow drying?

NeilPatrickBanana
09-21-2013, 09:58 AM
Patting?? Lol why not blow drying?

Lol he's weird like that

NYCsteelersfan
09-21-2013, 11:30 AM
Because you like washing and patting dry Ben's balls.

Stop typing with Andrew Luck's $#&@ in your @$&#! mouth. It makes all of us uncomfortable. Now go get on your knees for K-Train and report me like last time.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-21-2013, 12:05 PM
Stop typing with Andrew Luck's $#&@ in your @$&#! mouth. It makes all of us uncomfortable. Now go get on your knees for K-Train and report me like last time.

I've never reported you. Your adolescence doesn't bother me. But I'm sure there are others who have gotten tired of your language and reported you.

KTrain, BigT, mods, etc... Have I ever reported anyone?

Big T
09-21-2013, 12:25 PM
I've never reported you. Your adolescence doesn't bother me. But I'm sure there are others who have gotten tired of your language and reported you.

KTrain, BigT, mods, etc... Have I ever reported anyone?

I'm not sure why you would. I'd imagine you find his need to follow you around and call you names quite humorous. It's funny that the same guy who calls people blind homers for not overreacting to the teams recent woes, is the same guy who gets his panties in a bunch when you say anything that even remotely resembles objective criticism of Ben.

NYCsteelersfan
09-21-2013, 04:47 PM
I'm not sure why you would. I'd imagine you find his need to follow you around and call you names quite humorous. It's funny that the same guy who calls people blind homers for not overreacting to the teams recent woes, is the same guy who gets his panties in a bunch when you say anything that even remotely resembles objective criticism of Ben.

What's really funny is you claiming that I follow him around when it's the complete opposite. You can even find posts where I've asked him to not address my posts because he irrirates me. His response was that I should put him on ignore.

Sad when this forum starts building a clique amongst members and mods who all believe that management and coaching shouldn't be criticized, but rather player execution is the problem. This forum becomes more and more like steelersfever everyday.


Hey, listen up, at the end of the day, 0-4 in preseason is meaningless. People just need to stop overreacting. Too much wrist slitting going on. The standard is the standard and hell will be unleashed once the season starts.

Big T
09-21-2013, 05:06 PM
What's really funny is you claiming that I follow him around when it's the complete opposite. You can even find posts where I've asked him to not address my posts because he irrirates me. His response was that I should put him on ignore.

Sad when this forum starts building a clique amongst members and mods who all believe that management and coaching shouldn't be criticized, but rather player execution is the problem. This forum becomes more and more like steelersfever everyday.


Hey, listen up, at the end of the day, 0-4 in preseason is meaningless. People just need to stop overreacting. Too much wrist slitting going on. The standard is the standard and hell will be unleashed once the season starts.

Your problem is that you see what you want to see. There are no cliques. No one has said the coaching staff shouldn't be criticized. That's foolish. Every aspect of the team deserves some sort of criticism. You don't like Tomlin, that's fine. You're a huge fan of Ben, so am I... But, as I said, you see things the way you want to see them. Everything is the fault of the coaching staff and Ben can do no wrong. Ben is my favorite player. He's the most important player on the team. That's not even debatable. But you're just a blind homer if you don't see that his play has been subpar. Ben is struggling because the team is struggling, but the team is struggling because Ben is struggling. Like Neil said, they aren't mutually exclusive. Ben has received little help from the rest of the offense (that includes Haley), but when Ben has had opportunities this season he's missed more than he's taken advantage of.

questforSB7
09-21-2013, 05:29 PM
but when Ben has had opportunities this season he's missed more than he's taken advantage of.[/B]






Sorry but you're going to have to show specific proof of that statement. When Haley was hired, it was his own claim that he wanted to bring a quick, shorter strike pattern of offense that would protect Ben from getting Hit & sacked as much. But, since 2012, Ben's getting hit & sacked MORE at a greater percentage then he ever has the previous 7 seasons before Haley. A short, quick strike offense ?....Thats funny cause since Haley's arrival, the Steelers lead the league in offensive pass plays of over 20 yards. And even though the Steelers didn't pass even remotely CLOSE to the amount of times that the Saints, Denver, New England, Dallas or Green Bay did last season, the Steelers AND HALEY attempted WAY more 20 + yard routes then any of those TWO teams mentioned..( Two of them ) I heard this last week on ESPN. " Numbers don't Lie " show.



And they went on to Say, how is Ben, with what is easily the worst Pass protecting OL being given more offensive plays that take LONGER to develope, thereby expossing Ben to being Sacked/Rushed ? And you know what...that was a good question. I mean why are the Steelers running so many deep passing plays on a offense that Haley said he wanted to eliminate, or tone down. ? I'm sorry but when you have Michael Smith saying that the Steelers have called 34 plays of OVER 20 Yds down field of Ben's total of 70 total attempts....something is wrong. Especially when that same show reported that BOTH Peyton Manning and Arron Rodgers in their over 160 plus attempts have a COMBINED 16 total pass plays of over 20 yards so far. So lets see, both Manning and Rodgers in over 160 pass attempts have 16 plays where they attempted a pass over 20 yards, and Ben has 34 ?...on a team with ZERO Threat of a rushing attack, which totally eliminates any chance of Ben using a Play action, which is is strength, and a O-Line that allows quicker Immediate pressure then almost ANY other NFL O-Line.



Sorry but given THOSE Numbers...I think I will give Ben MOST of the benefit of the doubt.

NYCsteelersfan
09-22-2013, 01:36 AM
[/B]






Sorry but you're going to have to show specific proof of that statement. When Haley was hired, it was his own claim that he wanted to bring a quick, shorter strike pattern of offense that would protect Ben from getting Hit & sacked as much. But, since 2012, Ben's getting hit & sacked MORE at a greater percentage then he ever has the previous 7 seasons before Haley. A short, quick strike offense ?....Thats funny cause since Haley's arrival, the Steelers lead the league in offensive pass plays of over 20 yards. And even though the Steelers didn't pass even remotely CLOSE to the amount of times that the Saints, Denver, New England, Dallas or Green Bay did last season, the Steelers AND HALEY attempted WAY more 20 + yard routes then any of those TWO teams mentioned..( Two of them ) I heard this last week on ESPN. " Numbers don't Lie " show.



And they went on to Say, how is Ben, with what is easily the worst Pass protecting OL being given more offensive plays that take LONGER to develope, thereby expossing Ben to being Sacked/Rushed ? And you know what...that was a good question. I mean why are the Steelers running so many deep passing plays on a offense that Haley said he wanted to eliminate, or tone down. ? I'm sorry but when you have Michael Smith saying that the Steelers have called 34 plays of OVER 20 Yds down field of Ben's total of 70 total attempts....something is wrong. Especially when that same show reported that BOTH Peyton Manning and Arron Rodgers in their over 160 plus attempts have a COMBINED 16 total pass plays of over 20 yards so far. So lets see, both Manning and Rodgers in over 160 pass attempts have 16 plays where they attempted a pass over 20 yards, and Ben has 34 ?...on a team with ZERO Threat of a rushing attack, which totally eliminates any chance of Ben using a Play action, which is is strength, and a O-Line that allows quicker Immediate pressure then almost ANY other NFL O-Line.



Sorry but given THOSE Numbers...I think I will give Ben MOST of the benefit of the doubt.


Those numbers are incredible. Says a lot.

coldrolled
09-22-2013, 09:14 AM
but when Ben has had opportunities this season he's missed more than he's taken advantage of.

Some people on this board need to watch the games. Ben missed a dozen passes in cinci, all his fault.

NFL even had the Bears vs Steelers game day review, they showed 6 passes Ben missed by 5 yards in cinci...

He is way off the mark right now.

Ben needs to play 10x better for his team to win right now.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-22-2013, 10:13 AM
Those numbers are incredible. Says a lot.

Those numbers are bullshit. it says a lot that you so easily believed them. it says even more that you believed Quest, who is notorious for just making **** up.... like all the time.

seriously, do you even watch the games? Do you really think Ben threw 34 passes over 20 yards... in those 2 games?

34?!?!

More 20 yard passes than any of TWO combined teams in 2012?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Only the dumbest of dumb asses would believe the nonsense Quest spewed in those 2 paragraphs...

but i get it... it played to your senses... so you believed it...

questforSB7
09-22-2013, 11:52 AM
Those numbers are bullshit. it says a lot that you so easily believed them. it says even more that you believed Quest, who is notorious for just making **** up.... like all the time.

seriously, do you even watch the games? Do you really think Ben threw 34 passes over 20 yards... in those 2 games?

34?!?!

More 20 yard passes than any of TWO combined teams in 2012?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Only the dumbest of dumb asses would believe the nonsense Quest spewed in those 2 paragraphs...

but i get it... it played to your senses... so you believed it...





As usual, you cannot admit someone elses point of view, even when it's not my own, but one that was pointed out on Numbers don't lie show. All I know is that in the Titans games, I do remember alot of longer then usual passes for a Todd Haley offense. Now, I'm not talking about the really long Deep 9 patterns that went for over 50 yards to Wallace. But ones that did travel 20 + yards. Now, I remember a few of those being over thrown yes. But, you, and especially this uninformed Coldrolled guy ASSUME that it is ALL Ben. How do you not know that maybe it was the WR who didn't make the mistake ? On a longer pass pattern, like the ones Todd Haley has been calling..( At least according to numbers don't lie )...have to actually be thrown to a specific AREA...and not the WR. The throw has to be in the air before the WR finishes off his route. There might have been miscommunication on the route/Play call itself. But you, and this Coldrolled guy have no clue about this.


And you yourself Neil, if you get any response that differs from yours, all you do is resort to Insults. Rather then counter that POINT with one of your own. The very fact that you did Insult me, and offered NO return Point of your own only PROVES my post...and Michael Smith correct.


Thanks for confirming it Neil. :yellowthumb:

NYCsteelersfan
09-22-2013, 12:09 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/29/three-years-of-deep-passing/

NeilPatrickBanana
09-22-2013, 12:13 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/29/three-years-of-deep-passing/

So you still believe that Roethlisberger threw 34 passes over 20 yards in the first 2 games? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
And you still believe that Roethlisberger threw more passes over 20 yards than any other 2 teams combined in 2012? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice job providing a link to passing stats during the Arians era.... which has nothing to do with Quests 2 made up "facts"
HAHAHAHAHAHAA

Quest made **** up, and you believed it because you are prone to stupidity that fits your narrative.... the end

NYCsteelersfan
09-22-2013, 01:10 PM
So you still believe that Roethlisberger threw 34 passes over 20 yards in the first 2 games? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
And you still believe that Roethlisberger threw more passes over 20 yards than any other 2 teams combined in 2012? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice job providing a link to passing stats during the Arians era.... which has nothing to do with Quests 2 made up "facts"
HAHAHAHAHAHAA

Quest made **** up, and you believed it because you are prone to stupidity that fits your narrative.... the end

That link was for Quest, which shows how Roethlisberger has quite a lot of deep passes the last few years behind an awful offensive line. The offensive line wasn't any better under Arians than it is now. Perhaps you're too stupid to realize or understand that. Furthermore, you have yet to prove that he made up his stats. Maybe he did. But prove it.

K-Train, can I report Banana for insulting me? Or do I have to suck you off like he does to give him an infraction?

questforSB7
09-22-2013, 01:17 PM
That link was for Quest, which shows how Roethlisberger has quite a lot of deep passes the last few years behind an awful offensive line. The offensive line wasn't any better under Arians than it is now. Perhaps you're too stupid to realize or understand that. Furthermore, you have yet to prove that he made up his stats. Maybe he did. But prove it.

K-Train, can I report Banana for insulting me? Or do I have to suck you off like he does to give him an infraction?







Don't concern yourself with Neil when he is like this. He just can't admit he is wrong on SOME things. Not ALL things, but some.
Rather then go back n forth with one another. Why not offer up EACH of your owns personal solutions to what SHOULD be done, or what you would do to CORRECT this ? I wanna hear SPECIFIC ideas. I mean I have made my thoughts and opinions clear IF the Steelers should lose tonight..and definitely if they lose to Minnesota in London.....and that is TRY to trade em all!!
Not Ben. But Troy, Ike, Kiesel, Sanders, ect. Then Fire Haley, and let Kirby Wilson take over for this season, and address the OC after this season. That is what I would do. So stop with the back n forth you guys. Offer up a REAL and specific solution.

NeilPatrickBanana
09-22-2013, 01:30 PM
That link was for Quest, which shows how Roethlisberger has quite a lot of deep passes the last few years behind an awful offensive line. The offensive line wasn't any better under Arians than it is now. Perhaps you're too stupid to realize or understand that. Furthermore, you have yet to prove that he made up his stats. Maybe he did. But prove it.

K-Train, can I report Banana for insulting me? Or do I have to suck you off like he does to give him an infraction?

I saw a TV show that said so
:rolleyes:

I don't indulge Quest any longer, he is a master troll. He's been proven wrong upwards of 30+ times by myself and many others on here. I'm pretty sure he does it on purpose, there is no other explanation for how wrong he's been on so many things (and we aren't talking subjective stuff like "guy is good, guy is not good", we are talking about undeniable facts... and when the more he was wrong, the more **** he made up.

sorry... you fell for it

oh, and im sorry you felt insulted...