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View Full Version : Should Clark be Extended?



Zachintosh66
06-16-2013, 05:42 PM
There were some grumblings as of late weather or not Ryan Clark should be extended...

What are your thoughts and feelings?

ChucktownSteeler
06-16-2013, 05:52 PM
I am still concerned with the overall depth (or lack-there of) at the safety position, plus both Clark and Troy getting there in age. Of Clark or Troy, I would be more willing to extended Clark, simply due to his ability to stay on the field and off IR.

I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it (at the right price) for 1 year and a club option for the second. I guess my thought would be this would buy us a little time to have Shamarko develop and add a few more bodies to the roster at this position (through the draft or FA).

C-town

Nolrog
06-17-2013, 07:24 AM
I think safety is a position where we should look for a free agent to avoid a huge let down when Clark and Troy leave. We need to get into a place where financially, we can do this periodically to help the team avoid a big drop in production.

LatrobePA
06-17-2013, 09:36 AM
Certainly need him this year but next year this team will have to see how the young guys pan out.

K Train
06-17-2013, 09:39 AM
A huge let down would be extending clark and expecting anywhere near the same level of play (which is pretty average to begin with) for the entirety of another contract. They need to find a replacement for him just like they found him when they let hope go, and like when they plugged hope in for brent alexander...ect.

Clark is not a player you want to hold onto for too long, something the steelers have been guilty of with some defenders recently

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 12:17 PM
A huge let down would be extending clark and expecting anywhere near the same level of play (which is pretty average to begin with) for the entirety of another contract. They need to find a replacement for him just like they found him when they let hope go, and like when they plugged hope in for brent alexander...ect.

Clark is not a player you want to hold onto for too long, something the steelers have been guilty of with some defenders recently

Im indifferent to re-signing Clark... until I see more from Golden and Thomas...

But calling Clark "pretty average", is "pretty stupid"...
you need to buy yourself some coaches tape... not sure how you can judge a FS without it, but it's clear you aren't watching the coaches tape and seeing his reads.

Based on Performance, PFF #7 Safety in 2012, #113th best PLAYER in the NFL 2012

I know you respect PFF...

K Train
06-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Im indifferent to re-signing Clark... until I see more from Golden and Thomas...

But calling Clark "pretty average", is "pretty stupid"...
you need to buy yourself some coaches tape... not sure how you can judge a FS without it, but it's clear you aren't watching the coaches tape and seeing his reads.

Based on Performance, PFF #7 Safety in 2012, #113th best PLAYER in the NFL 2012

I know you respect PFF...
PFF also called matt spaeth the #1 best blocking TE in the whole wide world...lol

We know how you feel about clark and how keenan lewis had the best year for a steelers CB in like 9 decades...ive seen plenty of clark, i get it...hes played some good football recently, especially given the fact that he is a pretty slow FS and has to compensate for troy playing like a torpedo with a malfunctioning homing device or just not playing at all. Not only that but despite his ability to play solidly well, he doesnt create much of an impact in turnover department, which is something that the defense really needs. Point being he is still a middle of the pack FS and the team needs a youth movement, extending clark would be a step backwards. There is nothing wrong with calling him average, i guarantee many many many more people/players/coaches would agree with him being average more so than him being a world beater.

You just dont give average FSs who are 34 years old an extension and expect a lot of production.

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 12:38 PM
PFF also called matt spaeth the #1 best blocking TE in the whole wide world...lol

That's right... because Spaeth IS an incredible zone blocker... zone scheme + length = highly effective. You may be judging Spaeth's blocking while he was here... in a man scheme, and was merely average (at best).

That's the good thing about PFF... they know football.

But, if pivoting to a straw man argument was necessary, you nailed it.


We know how you feel about clark and how keenan lewis had the best year for a steelers CB in like 9 decades...ive seen plenty of clark, i get it...hes played some good football recently, especially given the fact that he is a pretty slow FS and has to compensate for troy playing like a torpedo with a malfunctioning homing device or just not playing at all. Not only that but despite his ability to play solidly well, he doesnt create much of an impact in turnover department, which is something that the defense really needs. Point being he is still a middle of the pack FS and the team needs a youth movement, extending clark would be a step backwards. There is nothing wrong with calling him average, i guarantee many many many more people/players/coaches would agree with him being average more so than him being a world beater.

The whole turnover argument is moot... he's a FS with a very difficult set of responsibilities. And HE has kept this teams pass defense near the top of the league the last 2 years, while their pass rush disintegrated.

If people are expecting better turnover numbers from someone else... they are kidding themselves... or maybe they expect us to go to a strict cover 2.

(ps, you don't have to do the "watch me bring up a different statement/argument you've made in the past, which is easier for me to argue with, as an example of how I should treat your opinion in this case - keenan - ... that **** is beneath you)


You just dont give average FSs who are 34 years old an extension and expect a lot of production.

1. He's not average, he's VERY Good... and independent examination by a mutually acceptable entity confirms
2. I'm not advocating an extension

Crash
06-17-2013, 12:57 PM
Matt Spaeth sucks. He'll suck in 2013 also.

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 01:01 PM
Matt Spaeth sucks. He'll suck in 2013 also.

You didn't watch a single Bears game last year

TarlsQtr
06-17-2013, 01:06 PM
I watched several Bears games last year and Spaeth did do a very nice job blocking. Wasn't much of a receiving threat though.

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 01:14 PM
I watched several Bears games last year and Spaeth did do a very nice job blocking. Wasn't much of a receiving threat though.

Agreed. I expect next to nothing from him in the passing game (although, I wouldn't mind a highlight reel TD catch...like he had last year).

But as a zone blocker, he has the agility and length to create and seal the outside gaps... and that's exactly what he did in Chicago.

K Train
06-17-2013, 01:15 PM
That's right... because Spaeth IS an incredible zone blocker... zone scheme + length = highly effective. You may be judging Spaeth's blocking while he was here... in a man scheme, and was merely average (at best).

That's the good thing about PFF... they know football.

But, if pivoting to a straw man argument was necessary, you nailed it.



The whole turnover argument is moot... he's a FS with a very difficult set of responsibilities. And HE has kept this teams pass defense near the top of the league the last 2 years, while their pass rush disintegrated.

If people are expecting better turnover numbers from someone else... they are kidding themselves... or maybe they expect us to go to a strict cover 2.

(ps, you don't have to do the "watch me bring up a different statement/argument you've made in the past, which is easier for me to argue with, as an example of how I should treat your opinion in this case - keenan - ... that **** is beneath you)



1. He's not average, he's VERY Good... and independent examination by a mutually acceptable entity confirms
2. I'm not advocating an extension
PFF is so obscure, we will never agree on that. You say its them "knowing football" and how they are mutually acceptable, but they are really quite off the wall in much of what they analyze, i get it though...they want to be those guys, i just dont think you can really do an accurate, sabermetric-like analysis of football, its much more qualitative of a sport than baseball. Everything is so subjective

You do not always have to bring up "you should go get some coaches tape" because ive seen every damn snap they have played and neither ryan clark or keenan lewis is anywhere close to being as dominant as you would make them out to be by relaying their PFF statistics. Ive seen the All 22 tape, i understand what it takes to play CB and FS for the steelers, and i still have to insist that while they (both of them) have played their best football as steelers in 2012, they are both very much replaceable players

cmerrifield
06-17-2013, 01:18 PM
If Clark is soooo good, why is the average salary of the top 10 safeties 7 million and Clark will make half that. If he is that good, his agent should have got him more money.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

K Train
06-17-2013, 01:32 PM
If Clark is soooo good, why is the average salary of the top 10 safeties 7 million and Clark will make half that. If he is that good, his agent should have got him more money.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Not really a good argument to make, hes a loyal player and got paid fair market for the caliber of player he was after he came here from the skins and at his age cant really chase a huge deal anymore

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 01:33 PM
If Clark is soooo good, why is the average salary of the top 10 safeties 7 million and Clark will make half that. If he is that good, his agent should have got him more money.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

good argument :lol:

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 01:37 PM
PFF is so obscure, we will never agree on that. You say its them "knowing football" and how they are mutually acceptable, but they are really quite off the wall in much of what they analyze, i get it though...they want to be those guys, i just dont think you can really do an accurate, sabermetric-like analysis of football, its much more qualitative of a sport than baseball. Everything is so subjective

You do not always have to bring up "you should go get some coaches tape" because ive seen every damn snap they have played and neither ryan clark or keenan lewis is anywhere close to being as dominant as you would make them out to be by relaying their PFF statistics. Ive seen the All 22 tape, i understand what it takes to play CB and FS for the steelers, and i still have to insist that while they (both of them) have played their best football as steelers in 2012, they are both very much replaceable players

Sorry, I thought we mutually agreed with PFF being very respectable subjective analysis.

Keenan Lewis had a great year, and IS a replaceable player in the Steeler defense
Ryan Clark had a great year, and if you think he is easily replaceable, then you don't remember Anthony Smith and Ryan Mundy.

Ryan Clark is the primary reason the Steelers led the league in Passing Yards against the last 2 seasons.

There is a reason why intelligent football people, from PFF to Players and coaches around the league, consider him a top flight FS...

cmerrifield
06-17-2013, 01:48 PM
Not really a good argument to make, hes a loyal player and got paid fair market for the caliber of player he was after he came here from the skins and at his age cant really chase a huge deal anymore

He was negotiating in Miami when we called him and offered him that deal. How is that loyal?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

K Train
06-17-2013, 01:54 PM
Sorry, I thought we mutually agreed with PFF being very respectable subjective analysis.

Keenan Lewis had a great year, and IS a replaceable player in the Steeler defense
Ryan Clark had a great year, and if you think he is easily replaceable, then you don't remember Anthony Smith and Ryan Mundy.

I really thought smith was going to be a player, he had what we needed but he spent so much time in the dog house and just wasnt all there mentally as a player and never was able to take that next step with any team.

I think PFF does a lot of work that should be appreciated, and some of their writers are pretty damn good but i also think a lot of it is very subjective and way to oftern misinterpreted. People (not necesarily you) will be like "OMG FINALLY SOME RESPECT" for x player and then others are like "OMG WHAT A TRAVESTY THAT X PLAYER ISNT ON THE LIST"

But like every website, they want hits too....their obscurity, which they manage to justify, it does leave me with a lot of WTFS

For instance, i absolutely ****ing throw up at them listing alex boone at the best guard in football. Earl thomas doesnt even make the list, i get that he has his flaws....but come on.

Like i said, i think they have an interesting approach to some stats, but a lot of it are more added food for thought and interesting to look at than it is in actually evaluating a player.

People would much rather look at those stats to form opinions than actually watch, which is where my problem with them is...i dont like the "PFF watches every play" argument that people have, because many us it as PFF watches every play so i dont have to.

K Train
06-17-2013, 01:58 PM
He was negotiating in Miami when we called him and offered him that deal. How is that loyal?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

uhhhh, at his response to that offer...lol


Ryan Clark says no to Miami Dolphins; safety re-signs with Pittsburgh Steelers
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Clark, shown upending Miami's Anthony Fasano on Jan. 3, will could be the target of boos when the teams meet next.
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The agent for Ryan Clark says his client had a change of heart after meeting with the Dolphins on Monday.
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Hard hits, like this blast on Baltimore's Willis McGahee, have become Clark's calling card.
By Edgar Thompson
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
The Miami Dolphins' search for a free safety continues.
Ryan Clark met with the Dolphins on Monday, but left town without agreeing to a deal.
Instead, Clark boarded a plane with a new four-year contract from the Pittsburgh Steelers, his team the past three seasons.
Clark's agent, Joel Turner, said his client "did some soul-searching" and concluded it was best for him and his family if he remained in Pittsburgh.
"This is one of the first deals in NFL history that wasn't about the money," Turner said.
"He's entitled to change his mind. It's his life."
Turner said Clark took less money to return to the Steelers, who offered a four-year deal worth a reported $17 million, including $5 million in the first season.
Clark, 30, has a wife and three children in Pittsburgh and didn't want to uproot them to move to South Florida, Turner said.
Meanwhile, the Dolphins will have to turn to another free agent, possibly St. Louis' O.J. Atogwe, or wait until the draft to find someone to fill the void left by the release of 2009 starter Gibril Wilson on Friday.
Turner said he understands it appears as if he used Bill Parcells and the Dolphins to get Clark a new deal with the Steelers.
"We didn't leverage anybody," said Turner, who also represents Miami backup quarterback Tyler Thigpen.
"I have another player down there who will be instrumental to that franchise's future."
Clark returns to one of the NFL's top defenses, featuring the best front seven in football and All-Pro strong safety Troy Polamalu.
Clark did speak to Josina Anderson, a reporter with Denver's Fox TV affiliate, who wrote on her Twitter account that she spoke to Clark before he boarded a flight back to Pittsburgh.
"My plan was to retire a Steeler," Clark told Anderson. "It took a little longer than I wanted it to get this deal done.
"But I think in the end, both sides got what they wanted."
Turner said he understands if some Miami fans are upset with Clark's decision to choose the Steelers over the Dolphins.
"They pay our bills," Turner said of the fans. "If they didn't give a damn something would be wrong. I'm glad they're going crazy."
The Dolphins could have filled another glaring hole in their defense with Clark.
The team signed inside linebacker Karlos Dansby on Saturday to beef up a position that failed to meet expectations in 2009.
But Wilson, who lasted just one season in Miami after signing a five-year deal in February 2009, might have been the weakest link in the NFL's 22nd-ranked defense.
The Dolphins allowed an NFL-high 17 completions of 40 yards or longer and were 15th in the AFC in yards allowed per completion (13.3).
Clark led the Steelers in tackles and ranked second among safeties to New Orleans' Pro Bowler Darren Sharper when it came to defending the pass, according to the Web site Pro Football Focus.
In 26 passes thrown his way, Clark allowed 10 completions and a passer rating of 36.2. Wilson allowed 18 completions on 31 passes and a rating of 94.7.

im literally defending and hating on clark in the same thread....

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 02:06 PM
I really thought smith was going to be a player, he had what we needed but he spent so much time in the dog house and just wasnt all there mentally as a player and never was able to take that next step with any team.

I think PFF does a lot of work that should be appreciated, and some of their writers are pretty damn good but i also think a lot of it is very subjective and way to oftern misinterpreted. People (not necesarily you) will be like "OMG FINALLY SOME RESPECT" for x player and then others are like "OMG WHAT A TRAVESTY THAT X PLAYER ISNT ON THE LIST"

But like every website, they want hits too....their obscurity, which they manage to justify, it does leave me with a lot of WTFS

For instance, i absolutely ****ing throw up at them listing alex boone at the best guard in football. Earl thomas doesnt even make the list, i get that he has his flaws....but come on.

Like i said, i think they have an interesting approach to some stats, but a lot of it are more added food for thought and interesting to look at than it is in actually evaluating a player.

People would much rather look at those stats to form opinions than actually watch, which is where my problem with them is...i dont like the "PFF watches every play" argument that people have, because many us it as PFF watches every play so i dont have to.

Well, that's my favorite factor... because judging talent should be done on a snap by snap basis... and the way current football stats are applied, people miss out on who the truly great players are in favor of looking at INTs.

I try to watch every play of every game during the season (it usually takes me 4-5 days a week). And I'll watch the Steelers tape 3 times minimum. PFF is a great reference point for me. I weigh my opinions against their's. And I disagree plenty. But it also points me in the right direction a lot. I use their game evaluation to re-assess what I saw. I think they are that good.

They are absolutely doing snap by snap player evaluation/execution. And their analysis, for whatever you think it's worth, is the most in depth, and well documented around.

Are you a site member? or do you just get tidbits second hand? You should subscribe...

K Train
06-17-2013, 02:23 PM
Well, that's my favorite factor... because judging talent should be done on a snap by snap basis... and the way current football stats are applied, people miss out on who the truly great players are in favor of looking at INTs.

I try to watch every play of every game during the season (it usually takes me 4-5 days a week). And I'll watch the Steelers tape 3 times minimum. PFF is a great reference point for me. I weigh my opinions against their's. And I disagree plenty. But it also points me in the right direction a lot. I use their game evaluation to re-assess what I saw. I think they are that good.

They are absolutely doing snap by snap player evaluation/execution. And their analysis, for whatever you think it's worth, is the most in depth, and well documented around.

Are you a site member? or do you just get tidbits second hand? You should subscribe...

You are in the vast minority on that way of evaluating players, its the "PFF watches every play so I dont have to" that bothers me and makes people lose credibility when citing PFF. Weighing opinions against theirs is different than using their opinions as your own.

No i am not a member, cant afford to be paying for stats right now lol

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 04:36 PM
You are in the vast minority on that way of evaluating players, its the "PFF watches every play so I dont have to" that bothers me and makes people lose credibility when citing PFF. Weighing opinions against theirs is different than using their opinions as your own.

No i am not a member, cant afford to be paying for stats right now lol

you mean, "we" :yellowthumb:

PFF is worth it... even when i disagree with them (Talib vs Nicks week #, they gave Talib too much credit... and wrote off a lot as, "you can't play it any better")... the analysis is completely subjective... but also so ****ing thorough. If you are a stickler for details... if you like to discuss "path to the ball" and "hand placement" and all the nerdy **** we love... you NEED to get a PFF membership.

Crash
06-17-2013, 05:34 PM
You didn't watch a single Bears game last year

Sure I did. He was so valuable they let him go.

If Miller is healthy, Spaeth is no better than the #3 TE on this team behind Heath and Paulson, and technically #4 because TE/FB Will Johnson will play more than him also.

If Matt Spaeth is on the field for any significant amount of time sans special teams? 6 wins. If that.

NeilPatrickBanana
06-17-2013, 05:51 PM
Sure I did. He was so valuable they let him go.

If Miller is healthy, Spaeth is no better than the #3 TE on this team behind Heath and Paulson, and technically #4 because TE/FB Will Johnson will play more than him also.

If Matt Spaeth is on the field for any significant amount of time sans special teams? 6 wins. If that.

Your incomprehension of the cap system, isn't evidence that you watched a game

I'd like to hold you to that though, what percentage of snaps would you consider "any" significant amount of time?

Harry Stones
06-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Sure I did. He was so valuable they let him go.

If Miller is healthy, Spaeth is no better than the #3 TE on this team behind Heath and Paulson, and technically #4 because TE/FB Will Johnson will play more than him also.

If Matt Spaeth is on the field for any significant amount of time sans special teams? 6 wins. If that.

I have to agree. Spaeth is so worthless. Why did they resign him?

Harry Stones
06-18-2013, 06:48 PM
There were some grumblings as of late weather or not Ryan Clark should be extended...

What are your thoughts and feelings?

You don't stay competitive by resigning players in their 30s, especially mid 30s. So the answer is no.

Rocky#20
06-19-2013, 09:11 PM
Before I would say no,I would see how Thomas develops as a player this year.Also how much more football does Clark want to play? He certainly has a job waiting for him at ESPN when he decides to retire from the game.

LatrobePA
06-19-2013, 09:50 PM
You don't stay competitive by resigning players in their 30s, especially mid 30s. So the answer is no.

I like this!