PDA

View Full Version : Horton hears a Dockett



coldrolled
05-08-2013, 04:32 PM
The Arizona Cardinals' defense under former coordinator Ray Horton mostly was successful. But it was hard to prepare for and required sacrifices from one of its best players. Defensive end Darnell Dockett -- for one -- is happy Horton is gone.

"Personally, I had nothing against Ray," Dockett told Darren Urban of the team's official website on Tuesday. "But I hated that scheme. I really hated it. I played it because I needed to. But this defense is based on guys and what their ability allows them to be good at. What they were drafted for."

Dockett will be allowed to go after his blockers one-on-one and the quarterback more in new coordinator Todd Bowles' scheme. Horton asked his defensive linemen to take on blocks.

"It's like a million pounds off your shoulders," Dockett said.

Unlike Dockett, Calais Campbell excelled in Horton's scheme. But even Campbell is excited for the change.

Campbell said, "Darnell and myself, I feel like we have the ability to make a lot of different plays, but sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself. This defense, the way we are doing things, it gives us a chance to make a difference."

Quietly, the Cardinals have assembled one of the NFL's most talented defenses. It starts with Dockett and Campbell, and extends to suspended linebacker Daryl Washington at linebacker and Patrick Peterson in the secondary. If the Cardinals weren't stuck in the NFC West, we'd see Carson Palmer and the Cards as a sneaky sleeper pick.

Goodfrom55
05-08-2013, 04:37 PM
Not every 3-4 has the D-line waltzing with O-linemen. Houston runs a very aggressive 3-4 and correct me if I am wrong, they are also pretty tough to run on.

Just as I would love to see more press coverage with our big physical corners, I would also love to see more penetration by our underachieving, yet talented D-line.

Crash
05-08-2013, 05:14 PM
"Personally, I had nothing against Ray," Dockett told Darren Urban of the team's official website on Tuesday. "But I hated that scheme. I really hated it. I played it because I needed to. But this defense is based on guys and what their ability allows them to be good at. What they were drafted for."

Exactly, we draft a Hood or Heyward based on what you see on film and then coach them to be something they aren't?

This quote from last mini camp says it all:

“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don’t need a Superman”

-Alameda Ta’amu

Just like what Dockett is saying.

NeilPatrickBanana
05-08-2013, 05:34 PM
Exactly, we draft a Hood or Heyward based on what you see on film and then coach them to be something they aren't?

This quote from last mini camp says it all:

“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don’t need a Superman”

-Alameda Ta’amu

Just like what Dockett is saying.

And idiots like you and Dockett will never understand the impact of schematics over individualism. All Horton did was take them from 29th to 12th in overall defense and the 23rd ranked pass defense to the 5th ranked pass defense.

Ta'amu got to the QB on one play.... great.... the coaches know that when 11 people aren't executing on the same page, you get beat. Ta'amu may have gotten to the QB on that one play, but 9 other times his disregard for his responsibility results in a big gain against the defense.



Crash using 2 stupid players comments are an example of "something" was cute though....

Crash
05-08-2013, 06:11 PM
Why draft first round DE's then? Before LeBeau returned our DE starters were late rounder Aaron Smith, and free agent 2nd tier journeymen Kimo Von Oelhoffen.

You can get any 300 pound DE to clog lanes and occupy blockers.

You draft one in the first round? He better be a pass rusher.

NeilPatrickBanana
05-08-2013, 06:36 PM
Why draft first round DE's then? Before LeBeau returned our DE starters were late rounder Aaron Smith, and free agent 2nd tier journeymen Kimo Von Oelhoffen.

You can get any 300 pound DE to clog lanes and occupy blockers.

You draft one in the first round? He better be a pass rusher.

The Hood pick was terrible, but space eating 3-4 DEs can be taken in earlier rounds and be impact players even if they aren't pass rushers.... say hello to Haloti Ngata or Muhammed Wilkerson (Wilkerson is a freaking stud)

Your lack of respect for the physical skills it takes to execute 5 tech is just another example you've provided as to how little you know about this sport.

connecticutsteel
05-08-2013, 06:52 PM
****in pussy bitch making millions oh no i gotaa run a 3-4 and enguage line men wawawawaw what a douche

Crash
05-08-2013, 07:54 PM
The Hood pick was terrible, but space eating 3-4 DEs can be taken in earlier rounds and be impact players even if they aren't pass rushers.... say hello to Haloti Ngata or Muhammed Wilkerson (Wilkerson is a freaking stud)

Your lack of respect for the physical skills it takes to execute 5 tech is just another example you've provided as to how little you know about this sport.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....1995 DE's Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner smashed quarterbacks all year.

They weren't paid to occupy blockers.

NeilPatrickBanana
05-08-2013, 09:45 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....1995 DE's Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner smashed quarterbacks all year.

They weren't paid to occupy blockers.

wow, they had a combined 11.5 sacks.... what's your point? How many super bowl rings do they have?
oh right, you only use the super bowl argument when its in your favor

Keisel/Smith had 10 combined in 2006
Hood/Keisel had 7.5 last year

As usual, your misplaced hatred is the problem. You do realize the Lebeau was the DC in 95... right?

Hood sucks, and Keisel is worn down/done... it's not the scheme that limits pressure from the Dline... it's the below average players.

PS Seals and Buckner were absolutely paid to occupy blockers... that was their primary job. Just because Seals was talented enough to get 8 sacks from the position doesn't change what the scheme was

it's always fun to find a thread where you are demonstrating your cluelessness... it's becoming almost daily.

Crash
05-08-2013, 10:42 PM
wow, they had a combined 11.5 sacks.... what's your point?

That the scheme is the cop out for LeBeau not developing pass rushers with high end picks.

The sacks aren't the issue. The constant pressure Seals and Buckner provided was.


How many super bowl rings do they have?

They only played one season together. Amazingly Buckner was hitting QBs in his second season. I thought the defense was too hard too learn in 2 years?

That was when LeBeau was a coach. Now he's a content novelty, a side show.

NeilPatrickBanana
05-09-2013, 12:29 AM
That the scheme is the cop out for LeBeau not developing pass rushers with high end picks.

not every draft pick turns out... only someone with an agenda picks and chooses when to assign blame


The sacks aren't the issue. The constant pressure Seals and Buckner provided was.

constant pressure? lol.... nice work there revisionist... seals/buckner had the same gap assignments, responsibilities, etc... they were simply better players than Hood and Keisel... i don't see why that's so hard to understand.

the evolution of the 3-4 doesn't allow for 5 techs to be simply gobbled up in later rounds... you have to invest in the position earlier... Hood was a swing/miss. a terrible pick. a guy I never thought would fit.

Heyward has plenty of upside, and we should see him starting this year, so we know where we are at going forward with the DL

Hood sucking is Hood's fault.. not lebeau's


They only played one season together. Amazingly Buckner was hitting QBs in his second season. I thought the defense was too hard too learn in 2 years?

DL is much easier to learn from a playbook standpoint, so if you are physically able, you can start quicker... it's a different story for LB/DB

nice try though


That was when LeBeau was a coach. Now he's a content novelty, a side show.

i'd be happy if Lebeau retired... but a novelty/sideshow? nah... that's just more hyperbole from the resident Mental patient

Crash
05-09-2013, 01:03 AM
DL is much easier to learn from a playbook standpoint, so if you are physically able, you can start quicker... it's a different story for LB/DB

LBs and DBs never had problems playing early when Dom Capers ran this defense.

Like I said, COACHING, not complacency.

Zachintosh66
05-09-2013, 07:52 AM
Guys... I went to the Univ of Michigan Coaches Clinic in March. That weekend the Baltimore Ravens D-Coord spoke. Im usually a WR/TE coach for the team im currently coaching. But with him being from the NFL, I went to his session anyways.

He gave some breakdown of his defense, we watched some film of his team's (ravens and the 19-0 slayed Patriots). I always thought the Ravens ran a "similar" attacking 34 defense as us. Well much to my surprise, their defense had barely anything to do with "attacking". The whole concept of their defense was to control the LOS and control every single gap across the LOS. Granted they did/do blitz, but it was very methodical. They had certain triggers in order to blitz (certain formation, or motion etc). He explained they didnt just blitz to blitz (which is how I was brought up all the way through high school ball). If they would just blitz, it would open one (or more) of their holes in the LOS gaps they are trying to control.

I dont know how similar this is to DL scheme, we can only speculate. But it did get me thinking about the Steelers ball. Ive always heard the DL is there to "take up space", etc etc.

I was blown away by the demand of gap control over actual pressure and blitzing in all phases even redzone and dime. In passing situations certain players would be tagged to be allowed to go after the QB, but it was always after their gap was controlled.

just an interesting story id share with you all...

cmerrifield
05-09-2013, 07:56 AM
LBs and DBs never had problems playing early when Dom Capers ran this defense.

Like I said, COACHING, not complacency.

Two things there that are funny. Dick LeBeau was the DB coach under capers, so what does that do to your coaching complaint. And chad Brown started as a rookie, the year we went 9-7 and was second in the division. Everyone else had at least one year under there belt. Woodley started year 2 as well, so...

Cortez Allen got a lot of playing time year two and is ready to start year three. I think LeBeau gets blamed for dbs but Horton was worthless at developing our young dbs. Look what Lake is doing with them.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

K Train
05-09-2013, 08:51 AM
****in pussy bitch making millions oh no i gotaa run a 3-4 and enguage line men wawawawaw what a douche

not really what hes saying, dockett is a team player. He is just saying the new scheme is easier for him and fits his skill set better, which it does. He said he would play FS if they asked him too a while back

Crash
05-09-2013, 10:12 AM
Dick LeBeau was the DB coach under capers, so what does that do to your coaching complaint

If Dick LeBeau was the DC, those players wouldn't be playing early.