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Blitzburgh_Mike
04-12-2013, 03:22 PM
First off, I want to say that I believe Tom Brady is one of the best quarterbacks in the league and is a sure fire hall of famer. However, I have NEVER bought into the fact that he's "the greatest ever" or how people see him as flawless and seemingly can do no wrong. When the Pats lose, it's never his fault. Even when he gets outplayed people don't seem to think he did. It's ridiculous. But the past couple of offseasons have really gotten me thinking about his "greatness" and what exactly separates him from every other quarterback.

I'm not blaming Brady for this, but I have never seen an organization like the Patriots, year in and year out, go out and get like 4 or 5 new receivers for Brady to throw to. It's like the Pats aren't satisfied unless Brady has a pro bowl receiver on his team that he can throw to. Two seasons ago, they tried Chad Ochocinco out. He didn't work, so they got rid of him. Last season, they picked up Brandon Lloyd, an already proven pro-bowl receiver. He was solid, but obviously not good enough so they got rid of him. This season, they sign about 4 or 5 receivers to compensate the fact that they lost Brady's best buddy in Wes Welker. They lose Welker, so they sign Danny Amendola, Donald Jones, resign Julian Edelman, and now they'll sign Emmanuel Sanders. They are all basically the same kind of slot receiver.

Aaron Rodgers just lost his best receiver in Greg Jennings. Do you see the Packers going crazy in trying to find 3 or 4 replacements for him? There is a possibility that Eli Manning may not have Victor Cruz next season, do you see the Giants going out and signing anybody? Ben Roethlisberger just lost Mike Wallace and Emmanuel Sanders (probably) to free agency. People can say, "Well Eli and Rodgers have other good receivers to throw to." Well, there is a reason for that. Victor Cruz may be a good receiver, but Eli made him great. Jordy Nelson may be a good receiver, but Rodgers made him great. Roethlisberger made Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown great. Outside of Welker, the Patriots are bringing in receivers that are already really good. Kinda just makes me wonder. Eli, Rodgers, Peyton, and Roethlisberger would be good anywhere they played. Could Brady be just as good anywhere else? My answer is no.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 03:47 PM
I agree. Also, no other QB in the NFL is no where near as tough as Ben. You take Brady, Manning, Brees or any of the other good QB's and they all would die behind our offensive line. They wouldn't be able to survive and win 2 SB's like Ben has. IMO Ben would've been even better if he had a decent O-line.

Real Deal Steel
04-12-2013, 03:59 PM
Would Joe Montana have been good in any other system other then the WCO? Probably not. But he was in a system that made him good...so he was good. Doesn't matter how you put up the numbers and get the job done just as long as you do it.

No one in San Francisco is going around saying, " John Elway was the type of QB that could be in any system and be good so Elways two Championships mean more then of Joe Montana's four championships."

I'll take Joe Montana's career and accomplishments over Elway's every time. No problem.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 04:38 PM
Actually, the opposite could be argued. Does Brady not make otherwise ordinary WRs put up extraordinary numbers? Deion Branch looks like the 2nd coming of Jerry Rice, but when he leaves NE he is average at best. Wes Welker nothing but a so so WR in Miami, but he goes to NE and leads the league in receptions most seasons. Troy Brown just barely made an NFL roster, but with Brady, was one of the most dangerous WR in the NFL. David Givens puts up 59 grabs and over 730 yards - what did he do elsewhere? He had EIGHT catches for 100 yards in TN and then his career was over. Brady makes his receivers, not the other way around. He is as good as advertised. He is a surgeon. Ben is a haphazard knuckle head who plays like he is in a college intramural game, with a keg on the sidelines.

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-12-2013, 04:43 PM
I'm not saying Brady is not good. But for a quarterback who is supposedly one of the greatest ever, the Patriots sure do spend a lot of time and effort making sure he has the right guys to throw the ball to. I never see Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, or Big Ben with a new crop of WR to work with every single off-season.

And let's not put Deion Branch, Troy Brown, or David Givens in the same light as a guy like Victor Cruz or Antonio Brown. While successful, they didn't put up near the numbers that Cruz or Brown have. Eli Manning turned an undrafted Victor Cruz into an All-Pro receiver. Ben Roethlisberger turned 6th round pick Antonio Brown into a pro-bowler. Deion Branch was still a second round pick.

steelchamp204
04-12-2013, 04:46 PM
I'm so tired of hearing the "Well if he played behind Bens line" ****. Well guees what, he doesn't. He also makes your regular Joe Shmoe Wr's look like pro bowl wideouts. He is in a good system that fits him. He is one of the GAOT Qbs and Im glad I got to see him/manning/ben/eli/brees and company while I did.

He also benefits from studying tape a lot, knowing what the defense is going to do and where to throw the ball. His preperation and fire is just as good as Mannings studies and Rivers heart for the game. I hate the guy, but damn. Give him props instead of relying on his Oline.

LatrobePA
04-12-2013, 05:03 PM
Ben was banging the back of a college kids throats out while Brady, Manning are studying! Ben is Ben but he's not them with their lines, WR's, RB's, coaches etc etc etc etc...

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-12-2013, 05:06 PM
Sorry, I forgot Brady is the only QB who studies tape and is motivated. ; )

LatrobePA
04-12-2013, 05:14 PM
With our defense last season and all the weapons on offense Brady would of won the SB with this team! Ben threw picks, he was off and you could tell post injury!

steelchamp204
04-12-2013, 05:24 PM
Sorry, I forgot Brady is the only QB who studies tape and is motivated. ; )

Re-read what I wrote, was I knocking any other Qb? No. I just think him and Manning are the best at reading defenses and sliding there protection.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 05:44 PM
I see a lot of Brady lovers on here, that's cute

scudmissile29
04-12-2013, 05:50 PM
Tom Brady, man he gets some pu$$ around Boston.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 05:53 PM
OK, no one is going to admit that the evidence shows that Brady makes ordinary WRs great and not the other way around? That's like not admitting that water is wet.

Speeed
04-12-2013, 06:06 PM
Why shouldn't the organization spend the time to do that. They want to field the most competitive team. And guess what, it works. How many Super Bowls does Sir Brady have?




I'm not saying Brady is not good. But for a quarterback who is supposedly one of the greatest ever, the Patriots sure do spend a lot of time and effort making sure he has the right guys to throw the ball to. I never see Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, or Big Ben with a new crop of WR to work with every single off-season.

And let's not put Deion Branch, Troy Brown, or David Givens in the same light as a guy like Victor Cruz or Antonio Brown. While successful, they didn't put up near the numbers that Cruz or Brown have. Eli Manning turned an undrafted Victor Cruz into an All-Pro receiver. Ben Roethlisberger turned 6th round pick Antonio Brown into a pro-bowler. Deion Branch was still a second round pick.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 06:14 PM
Why shouldn't the organization spend the time to do that. They want to field the most competitive team. And guess what, it works. How many Super Bowls does Sir Brady have?

3 rings and two other AFC titles to boot. In the hunt every single year. I don't see any 8-8 seasons from Brady. He didn't lose BOTH games he needed to make the play offs throwing game-losing picks either.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 06:21 PM
Why shouldn't the organization spend the time to do that. They want to field the most competitive team. And guess what, it works. How many Super Bowls does Sir Brady have?

"Sir Brady" really. He has one more than Ben and Eli, same as Aikman, but not as many as Bradshaw and Montana. Don't think he deserves the name Sir haha. Btw Steelers organization isn't too shabby. I mean 6 SB's (most all time), 8 Conference championships (tied for most all time), 27 playoff appearances, and 20 division crowns is alright I guess...... I'd say we're pretty competitive.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 06:28 PM
Btw Steelers organization isn't too shabby. I mean 6 SB's (most all time), 8 Conference championships (tied for most all time), 27 playoff appearances, and 20 division crowns is alright I guess...... I'd say we're pretty competitive.

PAST tense.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 06:30 PM
3 rings and two other AFC titles to boot. In the hunt every single year.

Umm didn't you go past tense here?

cmerrifield
04-12-2013, 06:31 PM
PAST tense.

Brady hasn't won a super bowl since BB admitted cheating. How about that for past tense. We have won a super bowl since Brady has.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 06:36 PM
Umm didn't you go past tense here?

Thank you for highlighting the whole point: Brady won't be past tense this season. Once again, like ALWAYS, he will have his team contending. Get it?

cmerrifield
04-12-2013, 06:38 PM
Thank you for highlighting the whole point: Brady won't be past tense this season. Once again, like ALWAYS, he will have his team contending. Get it?

You do realize he is in a division with the Bills, Dolphins and Jets right?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 06:41 PM
Brady hasn't won a super bowl since BB admitted cheating. How about that for past tense. We have won a super bowl since Brady has.



Brady contends each and every year. He will again this year. Ben won't. Ben is no longer clutch; he went from being clutch to being clown. When is the last time Ben won a meaningful game, with a TD drive late in the game? When is the last time he threw game-LOSING passes with a pick? Brady? Ben has been choke since SB 45. He now throws game-losing picks instead of game-winning TDs. HUGE difference.

cmerrifield
04-12-2013, 06:42 PM
Brady contends each and every year. He will again this year. Ben won't. Ben is no longer clutch; he went from being clutch to being clown. When is the last time Ben won a meaningful game, with a TD drive late in the game? When is the last time he threw game-LOSING passes with a pick? Brady? Ben has been choke since SB 45. He now throws game-losing picks instead of game-winning TDs. HUGE difference.

PAST TENSE

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 06:47 PM
Brady contends each and every year. He will again this year. Ben won't. Ben is no longer clutch; he went from being clutch to being clown. When is the last time Ben won a meaningful game, with a TD drive late in the game? When is the last time he threw game-LOSING passes with a pick? Brady? Ben has been choke since SB 45. He now throws game-losing picks instead of game-winning TDs. HUGE difference.

You are all over Brady's nuts right now let him breath geez.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 07:06 PM
You do realize he is in a division with the Bills, Dolphins and Jets right?


And you do realize we had a 4-game lock of games we could win by just showing up each game vs. Cinci and Cleveland as well? (They are better now but were gimmees for the majority of Ben's career.) And NE beats good teams all season long. They beat Denver, Houston and Indy last year - all play off teams. Don't give me their div. as an excuse to why Brady isn't really that good. That is crap. And up until last year, the Jets were a play off team, making it to the conf. championship in two recent seasons. Your excuse is crap.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 07:07 PM
PAST TENSE


So you are saying the Pats won't be a play off team next year? Want to wager any $ on that? Even if you don't, I look forward to you eating crow next season on this one. I will be here to remind you.

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 07:08 PM
You are all over Brady's nuts right now let him breath geez.

You mean you prefer to not deal with FACTS? OK, live in denial if that makes you happy.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 07:15 PM
You mean you prefer to not deal with FACTS? OK, live in denial if that makes you happy.

I threw out facts earlier and you said it was past tense... NE also lost to Arizona last year. And we did beat Cleveland. And Cin was a play off team. San Diego ill give you. Dallas is alright. Our team wasn't good last year but don't put all the blame on Ben. Last time I checked Brady isn't throwing passes to himself or kicking field goals. So he's not the only reason they contend.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 07:19 PM
And up until last year, the Jets were a play off team, making it to the conf. championship in two recent seasons. Your excuse is crap.

And you get to use the past but we don't?

ice cream glove
04-12-2013, 07:26 PM
I threw out facts earlier and you said it was past tense... NE also lost to Arizona last year. And we did beat Cleveland. And Cin was a play off team. San Diego ill give you. Dallas is alright. Our team wasn't good last year but don't put all the blame on Ben. Last time I checked Brady isn't throwing passes to himself or kicking field goals. So he's not the only reason they contend.


Funny you mention that: Look at the seasons WRs/TEs have WITH Brady and compare them to the seasons they are not playing with Brady. Anything jump out at you? Deion Branch, David Patten, Ben Watson, Dan Graham, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth...tell me, how well did these players do playing WITH Brady vs. how well they did when they were NOT? See any blinding, obvious trend there? Go ahead and check and get back to me.

Real Deal Steel
04-12-2013, 07:26 PM
Ben was banging the back of a college kids throats out while Brady, Manning are studying! Ben is Ben but he's not them with their lines, WR's, RB's, coaches etc etc etc etc...

And to piggy back on this..........Ben has yet to throw a timing pass and that is one of the things that Haley was brought here to do. To trust that your WR is going to run the pattern and put the ball their in anticipation of the WR being there. Ben refuses to learn that part of his position and that has contributed to his being hit as much as the ****** line has. Don't get me wrong..I love Ben. But if he learned that, he'd put up some serious numbers on a more regular basis.

Speeed
04-12-2013, 08:56 PM
I used "Sir" in jest. And I said nothing about the Steelers. Of course they are competitive. Why did you think I was putting down the Steelers when I said nothing of them? I am a Steelers fan, I know their accomplishments.


"Sir Brady" really. He has one more than Ben and Eli, same as Aikman, but not as many as Bradshaw and Montana. Don't think he deserves the name Sir haha. Btw Steelers organization isn't too shabby. I mean 6 SB's (most all time), 8 Conference championships (tied for most all time), 27 playoff appearances, and 20 division crowns is alright I guess...... I'd say we're pretty competitive.

Speeed
04-12-2013, 08:57 PM
Ben puts up top 5 numbers consistently in many categories. Despite all of his injuries, issues, etc. He ain't gonna get much better than that!


And to piggy back on this..........Ben has yet to throw a timing pass and that is one of the things that Haley was brought here to do. To trust that your WR is going to run the pattern and put the ball their in anticipation of the WR being there. Ben refuses to learn that part of his position and that has contributed to his being hit as much as the ****** line has. Don't get me wrong..I love Ben. But if he learned that, he'd put up some serious numbers on a more regular basis.

Steelergolfer59
04-12-2013, 09:00 PM
I used "Sir" in jest. And I said nothing about the Steelers. Of course they are competitive. Why did you think I was putting down the Steelers when I said nothing of them? I am a Steelers fan, I know their accomplishments.

You were just speaking about the competitiveness of the team. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

Speeed
04-12-2013, 09:09 PM
No worries!
You were just speaking about the competitiveness of the team. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-12-2013, 09:43 PM
If the Patriots sign all of these players each year "to field the best team possible", then why don't other teams try and do the same thing? How come the Packers are never that active? How come the Saints or the Giants aren't either? And don't say it's because those offenses are already loaded. The Patriots had the highest scoring offense in the league last year. One would assume that offense would be enough to carry over to the next season.

Oh and by the way, Randy Moss was on the verge of a hall of fame career even before he played with Brady. Look at his stats for his first 7 years. I can't believe I even have to mention this. Nobody else you mentioned is a hall of famer ice cream.

SuperSteelers
04-13-2013, 03:22 AM
Actually, the opposite could be argued. Does Brady not make otherwise ordinary WRs put up extraordinary numbers? Deion Branch looks like the 2nd coming of Jerry Rice, but when he leaves NE he is average at best. Wes Welker nothing but a so so WR in Miami, but he goes to NE and leads the league in receptions most seasons. Troy Brown just barely made an NFL roster, but with Brady, was one of the most dangerous WR in the NFL. David Givens puts up 59 grabs and over 730 yards - what did he do elsewhere? He had EIGHT catches for 100 yards in TN and then his career was over. Brady makes his receivers, not the other way around. He is as good as advertised. He is a surgeon. Ben is a haphazard knuckle head who plays like he is in a college intramural game, with a keg on the sidelines.

This^ minus the BR comment.

EDIT: Sir Brady and the Patriots own Ben and the Steelers in the playoffs.

ChucktownSteeler
04-13-2013, 10:09 AM
Tom Brady minus Adam Vinateri equals Fran Tarkenton or Jim Kelly.

All three of Brady's SB wins came from Vinateri's toe.

TarlsQtr
04-13-2013, 10:23 AM
Tom Brady minus Adam Vinateri equals Fran Tarkenton or Jim Kelly.

All three of Brady's SB wins came from Vinateri's toe.

You do not often just get the ball within range of Vinatieri's toe. Someone has to get you there.

gtadroptop
04-13-2013, 10:26 AM
At least the Pat's go out and seek help. That's what pisses me off about our organization. Pat's fans cluster around and talk about who they're going to sign this year. We're clustering around talking about who we're going to lose.

ChucktownSteeler
04-13-2013, 10:26 AM
You do not often just get the ball within range of Vinatieri's toe. Someone has to get you there.

Just saying Vinateri could have easily missed as well. See Scott Norwood. Ben put the ball in the end zone against the Cards when it counted. Perhaps the best clutch drive in NFL history. Ben took the FG kicker out of the equation.

TarlsQtr
04-13-2013, 10:46 AM
Just saying Vinateri could have easily missed as well. See Scott Norwood. Ben put the ball in the end zone against the Cards when it counted. Perhaps the best clutch drive in NFL history. Ben took the FG kicker out of the equation.

I agree for the most part and in no way am I trying to downplay Ben's contribution. However, it can just as easily be pointed out that Ben did not take the FG kicker out of the equation for two Reed FGs and also needed a miraculous interception return by James to even have a chance to win at the end. My only point is that it is not any more of a team game for Brady than it is for Ben.

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 12:17 PM
I agree for the most part and in no way am I trying to downplay Ben's contribution. However, it can just as easily be pointed out that Ben did not take the FG kicker out of the equation for two Reed FGs and also needed a miraculous interception return by James to even have a chance to win at the end. My only point is that it is not any more of a team game for Brady than it is for Ben.

How did Ben do at delivering a TD with 2 minutes left in SB 45? How about vs. Dallas and Cinci to make the play offs last season?

TarlsQtr
04-13-2013, 12:48 PM
How did Ben do at delivering a TD with 2 minutes left in SB 45? How about vs. Dallas and Cinci to make the play offs last season?

Do you have a point?

I can cherry pick instances where Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre, Manning, and Bradshaw did not complete a comeback either. You need to look at careers as a whole instead of cherry picking episodes that make your point for a given day.

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 01:46 PM
Do you have a point?

I can cherry pick instances where Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre, Manning, and Bradshaw did not complete a comeback either. You need to look at careers as a whole instead of cherry picking episodes that make your point for a given day.

Cherry picking? OK, when has Ben come through in a big game since 2010? Against GB in the Super Bowl? Nope. Going head to head against Tim Tebow in the play offs? Nope. He LOST to Tebow in the play offs. Against Dallas or Cinci to make the play offs last season? Nope. Cherry picking, or a TREND?

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-13-2013, 02:43 PM
Cherry picking? OK, when has Ben come through in a big game since 2010? Against GB in the Super Bowl? Nope. Going head to head against Tim Tebow in the play offs? Nope. He LOST to Tebow in the play offs. Against Dallas or Cinci to make the play offs last season? Nope. Cherry picking, or a TREND?

You're right ice cream glove, Ben sucks. He's has been to three superbowls, the last of which he made on a broken foot and broken nose. And if weren't for Mendenhall's fumble, he might have 3 rings. But go ahead, point to the Tebow loss, point to the Dallas and Cincinatti games and define the guy's career because he didn't come through for you every single time (with a dislocated shoulder/broken ribs).

Black@Gold Forever32
04-13-2013, 02:58 PM
Tom Brady is one of the alltime greats no doubt but if some people want to bash Ben for not coming through in the clutch but look at Tom Brady's post-season record of late.....Brady does put the Pats in contention every year which really isn't hard to do since they're almost guaranteed a division title every year due to the weakness of the AFC East but Brady didn't win the last two Super Bowls he played in and really has gotten his *** kicked by the Ravens twice in the post-season the past two years (a dropped pass in the endzone by Lee Evans allowed the Pats to play in Super Bowl XLVI) and then the Jets kicked Brady's *** in the divisional round of the 2010 season.......Before the excuses come defending Tom Brady for those losses then Ben should be allowed the same excuses since football is a TEAM GAME.......

ChucktownSteeler
04-13-2013, 03:06 PM
Brady's success (and that of the Pats) to some extent must be equated to playing 2 games each year against the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. Not exactly murderer's row there. Bradyt is a good system QB in the perfect system for hid dink, dank, dunk abilities.

Also, we have 2 new shiny Lombardi's since the Pats have collected their last dusty one.

Brady is good, but his success must be tempered to the above aforementioned.

TarlsQtr
04-13-2013, 04:00 PM
Cherry picking? OK, when has Ben come through in a big game since 2010? Against GB in the Super Bowl? Nope. Going head to head against Tim Tebow in the play offs? Nope. He LOST to Tebow in the play offs. Against Dallas or Cinci to make the play offs last season? Nope. Cherry picking, or a TREND?

Uh, the Broncos game is a ridiculous example. Ben led us and tied the game with less than 4 minutes left. We received the ball with a minute and a half left with no TO's. He was sacked for a 15 yard loss, which aborted that drive. Perhaps the OL should shoulder some of that blame, doncha think?

The Cincy and Dallas games had Ben playing injured on a struggling team. BEFORE the injury, there was MVP talk. Fans like you are pathetic. If they do not have a 100 percent success rate, constant criticism.

The last I knew, players on the other teams get paid too. Sometimes they will win.

TarlsQtr
04-13-2013, 04:15 PM
One more thing. In your rush to discredit Ben because of Dallas and Cincy, you ignore that he actually had THREE fourth quarter comeback/GW drives last season (Phil, @Cincy, @NYG). So, yes, you are definitely "cherry picking."

Black@Gold Forever32
04-13-2013, 05:01 PM
One more thing. In your rush to discredit Ben because of Dallas and Cincy, you ignore that he actually had THREE fourth quarter comeback/GW drives last season (Phil, @Cincy, @NYG). So, yes, you are definitely "cherry picking."

Thank You..........

coldrolled
04-13-2013, 05:06 PM
Going head to head against Tim Tebow in the play offs? Nope.

Dude, most of the games Ben lost 2011 and 2012 were due to him being critically wounded and the rest of the team in triage.

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 05:13 PM
You're right ice cream glove, Ben sucks.

Never said that. Nice straw man argument, though.


He's has been to three superbowls, the last of which he made on a broken foot and broken nose.

QBs use their nose to throw?


And if weren't for Mendenhall's fumble, he might have 3 rings.

Ben had the ball with 2 minutes to go. He failed.


But go ahead, point to the Tebow loss, point to the Dallas and Cincinatti games and define the guy's career because he didn't come through for you every single time (with a dislocated shoulder/broken ribs).

While those games don't define his ENTIRE career, they do define his RECENT quality of play. If you can't understand that, and don't see this OBVIOUS trend, then let's sign back Terry Bradshaw. He won FOUR rings so that automatically means he would still be great if he played today, right?

I got news for everyone: Ben hasn't been clutch since 2010. Just because one is clutch years ago is no guarantee that he will remain clutch. I remember in 1983, I was excited to see Bradshaw return to play for the Steelers; except it wasn't 1978 Terry Bradshaw, it was 1983 Bradshaw. It quickly became obvious that his career was over.

Am I saying Ben's career is over? Not yet. Am I saying there is an obvious TREND of Ben not being clutch to win the games that matter most? Absolutely. He really hasn't done it since the AZ Super Bowl. He has been coming up dry bones, like chicken wing bones buried in the yard for 2 years.

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 05:15 PM
Dude, most of the games Ben lost 2011 and 2012 were due to him being critically wounded and the rest of the team in triage.

So how many years are we going to have to live with the excuse with injuries, especially with Ben. And, oh, by the way, Ben will give us some injury story at all times, regardless of whether he has a significant one or not. It is his trap door in case he doesn't come through. Remember when he told us his toe was broken and it never healed since college? Cowher said he never even heard of such an injury about Ben in his life.

LatrobePA
04-13-2013, 05:17 PM
This website has rules:

1) never ever talk about Troy, he's the greatest!

2) never ever talk about Ben, he's the best QB ever!

3) never ever bash Tomlin, he's flawless!

4) we're the best team every year, it's either the refs or goodells fault if we lose!

Obey those rules and you're money!

Blitzburghpete
04-13-2013, 05:30 PM
QBs use their nose to throw?




I got news for everyone: Ben hasn't been clutch since 2010. Just because one is clutch years ago is no guarantee that he will remain clutch. .

No he doesn't need his nose to throw.. he needs it to breath though .. just a minor detail there quite crucial :)

As for Ben not being clutch..

Which version of the steelers you been watching the last few years ? The one i see is a team being carried by one man and his defence...

The success and failure of the team normally goes hand in hand with ben, and more often than not he's clutch....

Last year he did fail a couple of times, ( v bengals ) but considering the amount of times he's pulled us out of the fire, i think ben's middle name is actually " Clutch "

No one moment can define a career but... how's this for clutch... Doesn't get more " clutch " than this :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24k3PCL4prU

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 05:40 PM
Brady does put the Pats in contention every year which really isn't hard to do since they're almost guaranteed a division title every year due to the weakness of the AFC East

This is nothing but yinzer fan denial (which I find sad). First of all, you ripping the AFC East for being weak? Up until last season, the Jets were an annual contender, having played in two consecutive AFC Championship games. How is that a weak team? And even Miami was a play off team a few years ago. And the Bill were 5-0 at the start two seasons ago. Secondly, Brady beats the crap out of all kinds of good team outside his division. He beat Denver, Houston and Indy, ALL PLAY OFF teams. In 2010 he beat the Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Colts, Packers - all play off teams. Do don't give me this crap about how he doesn't ever beat good teams.

Thirdly, who in the F do you think Pgh has been playing? Up until just recently, the Browns and the Bengals were automatic wins if Pgh played in their sleep. They had a total of two tough games a year in their division. And you are saying Brady plays weak teams? Dear God, Cinci and Cleveland were putting up 3-winning game seasons forever. Let's not point the dirty end of the stick at the Patriots' opponents. That takes some real hypocrisy.

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 05:51 PM
No he doesn't need his nose to throw.. he needs it to breath though .. just a minor detail there quite crucial :)

Was he having any trouble breathing with his nose when he lost in the post season? Yes or no?


As for Ben not being clutch..

Which version of the steelers you been watching the last few years ? The one i see is a team being carried by one man and his defence...

The one who didn't have a winning season last year and lost to Tim Tebow in the play offs before that one. Those are two most-recent seasons to base things on.


The success and failure of the team normally goes hand in hand with ben, and more often than not he's clutch....

You mean prior to the loss in the Super Bowl where he had the ball and two minutes left, 2011 and last season?? Yes, prior to that, he was. Since SB 43, not so much.

Last year he did fail a couple of times, ( v bengals ) but considering the amount of times he's pulled us out of the fire, i think ben's middle name is actually " Clutch "


No one moment can define a career but... how's this for clutch... Doesn't get more " clutch " than this :)


Yes, he was Uber clutch in SB 43. And since then, not so much. Matter of fact, he hasn't done deek since then. Losing in the play offs to the likes of Tebow, and then missing the post season altogether, not really on a good trend. He had a chance to beat both Cinci and Dallas to make the play offs, had the ball in the final minutes of both games, and threw picks both times, to lose the game. That's not clutch; that's FAIL. But that is our modern-day Ben. Sad but true.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-13-2013, 06:25 PM
This is nothing but yinzer fan denial (which I find sad). First of all, you ripping the AFC East for being weak? Up until last season, the Jets were an annual contender, having played in two consecutive AFC Championship games. How is that a weak team? And even Miami was a play off team a few years ago. And the Bill were 5-0 at the start two seasons ago. Secondly, Brady beats the crap out of all kinds of good team outside his division. He beat Denver, Houston and Indy, ALL PLAY OFF teams. In 2010 he beat the Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Colts, Packers - all play off teams. Do don't give me this crap about how he doesn't ever beat good teams.

Thirdly, who in the F do you think Pgh has been playing? Up until just recently, the Browns and the Bengals were automatic wins if Pgh played in their sleep. They had a total of two tough games a year in their division. And you are saying Brady plays weak teams? Dear God, Cinci and Cleveland were putting up 3-winning game seasons forever. Let's not point the dirty end of the stick at the Patriots' opponents. That takes some real hypocrisy.

I never said Tom Brady doesn't beat good ****ing teams so learn to ****ing you read.......Yes I know the Jets made two ****ing AFC title games in a row but in my opinion the AFC East is a far easier division to win then the AFC North which was my ****ing point but whatever.........

2nd The Browns have been a joke since returning the NFL in 1999......But since 2005 the Bengals have been at .500 or above consistently (including 4 play-off seasons).......Ben was a rookie in 2004 so the Bengals really havn't been the 3 win pathetic Bengals since Ben has been in the NFL......

Third you're the one questioning Ben and him not delivering at the end of games anymore and I just pointed Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and really has been getting his *** handed to him in the post-season lately......If you're going to question Ben then question Brady as well which is all I was trying to say but you come up with this Brady keeps the Pats contenders and so ****ing what when the AFC East is a joke......

I also said Tom Brady was one of the greatest of alltime but I'm tired of all the Ben bashing on here when this team has enjoyed a ton success since he has been the starting QB.......Yea I so miss the Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Jim Miller, Mike Tomczak, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox days.....lol

Black@Gold Forever32
04-13-2013, 06:28 PM
The Steelers defense gave up 300 yards on 10 ****ing completions to Tim ****ing Tebow but its all Ben's fault for that play-off loss....lol Football is a TEAM GAME.......Same goes for Brady since its not all Brady's fault but just pointing out its funny people want to question Ben and its all his ****ing fault but when the Pats lose Tom ****ing Brady gets a ****ing pass.....Go to a ****ing Pats site then if you love Brady so ****ing much....

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 06:30 PM
This website has rules:

1) never ever talk about Troy, he's the greatest!

2) never ever talk about Ben, he's the best QB ever!

3) never ever bash Tomlin, he's flawless!

4) we're the best team every year, it's either the refs or goodells fault if we lose!

Obey those rules and you're money!

:lol:

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 06:35 PM
The Steelers defense gave up 300 yards on 10 ****ing completions to Tim ****ing Tebow but its all Ben's fault for that play-off loss....lol Football is a TEAM GAME.......Same goes for Brady since its not all Brady's fault but just pointing out its funny people want to question Ben and its all his ****ing fault but when the Pats lose Tom ****ing Brady gets a ****ing pass.....Go to a ****ing Pats site then if you love Brady so ****ing much....

Someone is suffering from anger issues. Yinzers....all denial all the time.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-13-2013, 06:37 PM
Someone is suffering from anger issues. Yinzers....all denial all the time.

No I just don't like words being put in my mouth like you did....That is what ticks me off.....But again 300 yards on 10 completions to Tim Tebow yea that is all on Ben....lol But whatever you think in your warped head....

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-13-2013, 06:52 PM
This is nothing but yinzer fan denial (which I find sad). First of all, you ripping the AFC East for being weak? Up until last season, the Jets were an annual contender, having played in two consecutive AFC Championship games. How is that a weak team? And even Miami was a play off team a few years ago. And the Bill were 5-0 at the start two seasons ago. Secondly, Brady beats the crap out of all kinds of good team outside his division. He beat Denver, Houston and Indy, ALL PLAY OFF teams. In 2010 he beat the Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Colts, Packers - all play off teams. Do don't give me this crap about how he doesn't ever beat good teams.

Thirdly, who in the F do you think Pgh has been playing? Up until just recently, the Browns and the Bengals were automatic wins if Pgh played in their sleep. They had a total of two tough games a year in their division. And you are saying Brady plays weak teams? Dear God, Cinci and Cleveland were putting up 3-winning game seasons forever. Let's not point the dirty end of the stick at the Patriots' opponents. That takes some real hypocrisy.

First of all, I don't know how in any way you can rip somebody for calling the AFC East weak. Were the Jets annual contenders? They had two consecutive playoff runs in 2009 and 2010, yes. Since then, they have had back to back seasons of 8-8 (2011) and (6-10). That 8-8 season was still good enough for 2nd place in that division. You know what was good enough for 2nd place in that division this year? 7-9 by the Dolphins led by a rookie coach and QB. Please. Don't tell me the AFC East is on the same level as the AFC North. Miami was a playoff team 5 YEARS AGO, for one year. The Bills started 4-0 two seasons ago and ended up 6-10. Where is the threat to New England each and every year? Not saying the Pats aren't good but come on, you don't think they revel at the fact that they get to play in that division every year?

Plus, the AFC north ANNUALLY has 2 teams in the playoffs every year. Pittsburgh has to contend with teams that make the playoffs every year. Baltimore is always there, Pittsburgh is usually there, and now you add Cincy to the mix the past two years. I don't know what youre arguing ice cream glove. Are you in denial? Cincy has been in the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years. Baltimore has been in the playoffs the past 5 years. Buffalo hasn't made the postseason since '99. What are we arguing here? haha

ice cream glove
04-13-2013, 06:56 PM
I never said Tom Brady doesn't beat good ****ing teams so learn to ****ing you read.......Yes I know the Jets made two ****ing AFC title games in a row but in my opinion the AFC East is a far easier division to win then the AFC North which was my ****ing point but whatever.........

You are in such a rage that you contradict yourself in the same post. Yes you DID say the Pats only win because of their soft div. schedule. And you say it again later in this post. LMAO.


2nd The Browns have been a joke since returning the NFL in 1999......But since 2005 the Bengals have been at .500 or above consistently (including 4 play-off seasons).......Ben was a rookie in 2004 so the Bengals really havn't been the 3 win pathetic Bengals since Ben has been in the NFL......


Oh, they've just been stellar every years since Ben has been in the NFL. 7-9 in 2007, 4-11-1 in 2008, 4-12 in 2010. What were you saying again?


Third you're the one questioning Ben and him not delivering at the end of games anymore and I just pointed Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and really has been getting his *** handed to him in the post-season lately......

You mean like losing in the Super Bowl on last minutes drives? Yea, that is just "getting crushed" in the post season. Your thinking is sure crystal clear, for sure. Brady barely losses in two SB (meaning he had to win to get there) and you point it out like it's the same as missing the play offs all together. Just brilliant.


If you're going to question Ben then question Brady as well which is all I was trying to say but you come up with this Brady keeps the Pats contenders and so ****ing what when the AFC East is a joke......

Oh, but I already pointed out that he beats lots of good teams on his way to contending every single year. Then you claimed you never stated otherwise, but gee whiz, look at your assertion above. Having trouble with your focus?

Crash
04-14-2013, 01:11 PM
Brady's "greatness" is a farce until he wins a ring without camera's.

His last 4 AFC title games:

94 for 157 for 1000 yards 4 TD 8 Int 65.8 rating.

His offense has also failed to score 20 in their last two Super Bowls, and failed to score 20 in three of the five Super Bowls he's played in.

From one of the greatest post season teams of all time, to choking dogs.

See what happens when they can't cheat?

SuperSteelers
04-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Oh spare me. If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying hard enough.

ice cream glove
04-14-2013, 04:56 PM
First of all, I don't know how in any way you can rip somebody for calling the AFC East weak. Were the Jets annual contenders? They had two consecutive playoff runs in 2009 and 2010, yes. Since then, they have had back to back seasons of 8-8 (2011) and (6-10). That 8-8 season was still good enough for 2nd place in that division. You know what was good enough for 2nd place in that division this year? 7-9 by the Dolphins led by a rookie coach and QB. Please. Don't tell me the AFC East is on the same level as the AFC North. Miami was a playoff team 5 YEARS AGO, for one year. The Bills started 4-0 two seasons ago and ended up 6-10. Where is the threat to New England each and every year? Not saying the Pats aren't good but come on, you don't think they revel at the fact that they get to play in that division every year?

Plus, the AFC north ANNUALLY has 2 teams in the playoffs every year. Pittsburgh has to contend with teams that make the playoffs every year. Baltimore is always there, Pittsburgh is usually there, and now you add Cincy to the mix the past two years. I don't know what youre arguing ice cream glove. Are you in denial? Cincy has been in the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years. Baltimore has been in the playoffs the past 5 years. Buffalo hasn't made the postseason since '99. What are we arguing here? haha

A bleep, a blah, a blue and a bloozer. Stick to the actual discussion. The point is that the AFCN hasn't been all that formidable until recently. Are you forgetting that Cleveland is in the div? And you have totally avoided the point that NE plays - and BEATS - good teams from outside their div. every year. So tizzy in your too too. Claiming that Brady and the Pats only make the play offs every year from playing in a weak div. is a wet fart, full of pam pams. NE would make the play offs playing in any div. in the NFL. That's the fact. Pgh couldn't even make the play offs last season, period. And that is pathetic.

ice cream glove
04-14-2013, 04:58 PM
Brady's "greatness" is a farce until he wins a ring without camera's.

His last 4 AFC title games:

94 for 157 for 1000 yards 4 TD 8 Int 65.8 rating.

His offense has also failed to score 20 in their last two Super Bowls, and failed to score 20 in three of the five Super Bowls he's played in.

From one of the greatest post season teams of all time, to choking dogs.

See what happens when they can't cheat?

Any yet, they make the play offs every year? Ben and the Steelers? Didn't even post a winning season last year, losing to the likes of TN, Oakland, Cleveland and SD. How weak is that? Way to go guys; you lost 4 games to 4 of the worst teams in the NFL.

ice cream glove
04-14-2013, 05:02 PM
The Steelers defense gave up 300 yards on 10 ****ing completions to Tim ****ing Tebow but its all Ben's fault for that play-off loss....lol Football is a TEAM GAME.......Same goes for Brady since its not all Brady's fault but just pointing out its funny people want to question Ben and its all his ****ing fault but when the Pats lose Tom ****ing Brady gets a ****ing pass.....Go to a ****ing Pats site then if you love Brady so ****ing much....

Have you considered therapy? Meds?

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-14-2013, 09:37 PM
ICE CREAM GLOVE:

I never said the Patriots are not a good team and never said they don't beat good teams. You have a terrible habit of putting words into peoples mouths and insinuating things that are not there. I said that the Patriots benefit from playing in a generally weak division. There records are often bloated and make them seem better than they actually are because they have 6 games against teams that are plain and simply not all that good. I'm not saying they are not a good team and don't annually beat and contend with other good teams. But one of the reasons they finish 13-3 every year is because of the division of which they play.

No, I didn't forget that Cleveland is in the division. But so is Balitmore, and so is Cincinatti. Comparing the AFC North to the AFC East is a ridiculous argument on your part because there is no argument. Cleveland beat New England the last time they played! I mean come on haha. I wish Pittsburgh was able to play the Bills and Jets twice a year. We'd be in the playoffs every year too. And we still generally win 10-12 games a year in the AFC north. Unlike the AFC East, however, 10 games is sometimes not enough to win the division.

Blitzburgh_Mike
04-14-2013, 09:41 PM
Any yet, they make the play offs every year? Ben and the Steelers? Didn't even post a winning season last year, losing to the likes of TN, Oakland, Cleveland and SD. How weak is that? Way to go guys; you lost 4 games to 4 of the worst teams in the NFL.

You also have to take the good into account with the bad. They also beat Baltimore (on the road with a third string QB), Cincinatti (on the road), and Washington. All three were playoff teams. They also beat the defending champion Giants (on the road). Pittsburgh was a better team than their 8-8 record showed, which is why so many Steeler fans (including myself) were disappointed with the team last year. They're a better team than their record showed.