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NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 02:42 PM
I'm sure I missed some people.
Please Critique
Point out the Stupid, the surprises, the debatable... lets talk

Updated 3/20

# Name Position School
1 Luke Joekel OT Texas A&M
2 Xavier Rhodes CB Florida St
3 Shariff Floyd DT Florida
4 Star Lotulelei DT Utah
5 Dee Milliner CB Alabama
6 Dion Jordan DE/OLB Oregon
7 Cordarelle Patterson WR Tennessee
8 Geno Smith QB West Virginia
9 Lane Johnson OT Oklahoma
10 Eric Fisher OT Central Michigan
11 Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
12 Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB LSU
13 Bjoern Werner DE Florida St
14 Cornelius Carradine DE/OLB Florida St
15 Chance Warmack OG Alabama
16 Ezekial Ansah DE/OLB BYU
17 Desmond Trufant CB Washington St
18 Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
19 Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
20 Jonathan Cooper OG North Carolina
21 Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
22 DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson
23 Keenan Allen WR California
24 Matt Barkley QB USC
25 Johnathan Hankins DT Ohio St
26 Manti Teo LB Notre Dame
27 Eddie Lacy RB Alabama
28 DJ Fluker OT Alabama
29 Robert Alford CB Southeastern Louisiana
30 Markus Wheaton WR Oregon St
31 Giovanni Bernard RB North Carolina
32 Datone Jones DE UCLA
33 Matt Elam S Florida
34 Tavon Austin WR West Virginia
35 Justin Hunter WR Tennessee
36 Jesse Williams NT Alabama
37 Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
38 Kevin Minter ILB LSU
39 Jordan Poyer CB Oregon
40 Arthur Brown OLB Kansas St
41 Tyler Bray QB Tennessee
42 Alex Okafor DE/OLB Texas
43 Eric Reid S Florida
44 Damontre Moore DE Texas A&M
45 EJ Manuel QB Florida St
46 Jamar Taylor CB Boise St
47 David Amerson DB North Carolina St
48 Robert Woods WR USC
49 John Jenkins NT Georgia
50 Margus Hunt DE/DT SMU
51 Kawann Short DT Purdue
52 Mike Glennon QB North Carolina St
53 Tyler Wilson QB Arkansas
54 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech
55 Terrance Williams WR Baylor
56 Kyle Long OT Oregon
57 Barret Jones OC Alabama
58 Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
59 Ryan Nassib QB Syracuse
60 Khaseem Greene OLB Rutgers
61 Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU
62 Brian Schwenke OC California
63 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina
64 Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA
65 Johnthan Banks CB Mississippi St
66 Menelik Watson OT Florida St
67 Sio Moore OLB Connecticut
68 Larry Warford OG Kentucky
69 Zach Ertz TE Stanford
70 Andre Ellington RB Clemson
71 Jamie Collins OLB Southern Miss
72 Alec Ogletree OLB Georgia
73 Corey Lemonier DE/OLB Auburn
74 Travis Frederick OC Wisconsin
75 Ryan Swope WR Texas A&M
76 Shamarko Thomas SS Syracuse
77 Blidi Wreh-Wilson CB Connecticut
78 Cornelius Washington DE/OLB Georgia
79 Jordan Reed TE Florida
80 Sam Montgomery DE/OLB LSU
81 Bacarri Rambo FS Georgia
82 Kenny Stills WR Oklahoma
83 Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
84 Terron Armstead OT Arkansas-Pine
85 Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
86 Phillip Thomas FS Fresno St
87 David Bakgtiari OT Colorado
88 Darius Slay CB Mississippi St
89 Tavarres King CB Georgia
90 Michael Buchannan DE/OLB Illinois
91 Chris Harper WR Kansas St
92 John Simon DE Ohio St
93 Jon Bostic ILB Florida
94 Shawn Williams SS Georgia
95 Akeem Spence DT Illinois
96 William Gholston DE Mich St
97 Jonathan Cyprien S FIU
98 Da'rick Rodgers WR Tennessee Tech
99 Sean Porter OLB Texas A&M
100 Stepfan Taylor RB Stanford

K Train
02-27-2013, 03:04 PM
few things at first glance...werner, datone jones, lane johnson and tavon austin are too high....i dont know what world lane johnson is better than fisher

Woods, Loutouei, and Bray are a bit low. Bray has done everything right and came in a good weight, hes got a first round arm. he wont go in the first but he could be a steal for someone in the 2nd or 3rd

Good work though

NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 03:34 PM
Werner has always been in my top 5, and always will be. He's a sure thing (i don't mean this in a super star way... simply, he's going to be a bonafide starter from day 1)... he may not have the high ceiling, but the floor is "NFL Starter".

Lane Johnson has tape against much better competition than Fisher.
Watch Fisher in the Senior Bowl... and you can see why he's dropped.
Johnson faced tougher competition, had a MUCH better senior bowl week, and bested Fisher in every combine measurable

You can stick with what the "pundits" have been saying about Fisher for months... or re-look at the evidence. Lane Johnson is better.

Austin had an incredible combine... I think while his future will be in a specific role... his "take it to the house" skillset set him apart from others.

You're right about Bray... he's always been the guy I kind of like the most... not sure why he ended up so low
Star, obviously with the heart condition... drops from #1
Wood seems too much like Jabar Gaffney to me.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 03:37 PM
(makie it) 3 guys that I loved during Senior Bowl week, and their combine workouts supported what I saw during the Senior Bowl:
Cornelius Washington
Lane Johnson
Brian Schwenke

K Train
02-27-2013, 03:53 PM
Werner has always been in my top 5, and always will be. He's a sure thing (i don't mean this in a super star way... simply, he's going to be a bonafide starter from day 1)... he may not have the high ceiling, but the floor is "NFL Starter".

Lane Johnson has tape against much better competition than Fisher.
Watch Fisher in the Senior Bowl... and you can see why he's dropped.
Johnson faced tougher competition, had a MUCH better senior bowl week, and bested Fisher in every combine measurable

You can stick with what the "pundits" have been saying about Fisher for months... or re-look at the evidence. Lane Johnson is better.

Austin had an incredible combine... I think while his future will be in a specific role... his "take it to the house" skillset set him apart from others.

You're right about Bray... he's always been the guy I kind of like the most... not sure why he ended up so low
Star, obviously with the heart condition... drops from #1
Wood seems too much like Jabar Gaffney to me.
Im sticking to woods being more like reggie wayne for me. Watching how kiffin used him last season and how the offense avoided him is almost painful. Hes a real hard worker and a smooth WR.

Austin did have a great combine, but hes still desean jackson minus the attitude. Good player, but wouldnt want to invest TOO much in him

Fisher is and will be a better pro than johnson. To me fisher has really just started to show how good he can be. Dont buy that hes better than Joekel but i do think he has some great potential...I just dont think i could say johnson is better than him, i like johnson pretty good but im grading Fisher around where i had Bulaga (who was a top ten guy to me) and i think johnson is more in the Riley Reiff category where its around 15-25 (even though both guys ended up going in that range...bulaga was a steal)

NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 04:21 PM
Fisher is and will be a better pro than johnson. To me fisher has really just started to show how good he can be. Dont buy that hes better than Joekel but i do think he has some great potential...I just dont think i could say johnson is better than him, i like johnson pretty good but im grading Fisher around where i had Bulaga (who was a top ten guy to me) and i think johnson is more in the Riley Reiff category where its around 15-25 (even though both guys ended up going in that range...bulaga was a steal)


what objective reference point are you using?

Who faced better college competition? Lane Johnson
Who performed better in Senior Bowl week? Lane Johnson (Fisher was good too, but Johnson dominated while Washington at Fisher for breakfast)
Who performed better in practically every underpants measurable? Lane Johnson

Fisher is a top tier prospect, no doubt... Johnson is better on tape (when competition is taken into account), and in underpants.

I don't like the Reiff comparison, even if it's the one NFL.COM is making. I think Ryan Clady/Jason Peters are better comparables for Lane.

I recommend the Texas game, for tape of Lane facing top tier competition and stonewalling it. Which tape do you think highlights Fisher vs elite competition?

K Train
02-27-2013, 04:28 PM
wasnt comparing him physically to reiff, thats way off, was comparing their draft stock and value. Physically hes Joe Staley, i just think Fisher is the more polished player.

I think he'll be valued a bit higher than staley was that year (forget where exactly he was drafted) but id take fisher over him right now, that doesnt mean i think hes going to suck though

NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 06:05 PM
Fisher, to me, is a more polished Nate Solder. He is still "high" out of his stance, and I think strong, bull rushers will give him serious problems at the next level (see Washington completely owning the **** of him at the senior bowl)

Lane, is definitely less refined in his technique... but he's strong at the point of attack, and his athleticism/recovery is elite. He has the rare combination to be able to anchor against strength and shadow speed. When he refines his technique, his punch is going to be a devastating tool to go along with his elite agility/speed/athleticism.

This board needs more K Train's

scudmissile29
02-27-2013, 07:30 PM
This board needs more K Train's

NPB, why don't you just take a knee and blow the moderator. sheeesh, talk about sucking up and ballwashing a higher member (no offense k-train but this is what NPB is doing)

As for the top 100, not bad.

Geno Smith's either going to be taken early or fall rapidly. I like barkley over smith

NeilPatrickBanana
02-27-2013, 08:02 PM
NPB, why don't you just take a knee and blow the moderator. sheeesh, talk about sucking up and ballwashing a higher member (no offense k-train but this is what NPB is doing)

As for the top 100, not bad.

Geno Smith's either going to be taken early or fall rapidly. I like barkley over smith

I've probably called K Train a an idiot, more than I've complimented him in the last month :lol: (we disagree a lot, but i enjoy the back and forth)... I was simply saying we need more people who can talk football/draft during the offseason. I enjoy that Train (like myself) follows college football and likes to debate prospects, the draft, team needs, the combine, etc

We need more people like him to engage in the debate. You aren't one of those people.

Thanks for stopping by, maybe you should head back to the children's room.

K Train
02-27-2013, 10:14 PM
Fisher, to me, is a more polished Nate Solder. He is still "high" out of his stance, and I think strong, bull rushers will give him serious problems at the next level (see Washington completely owning the **** of him at the senior bowl)

Lane, is definitely less refined in his technique... but he's strong at the point of attack, and his athleticism/recovery is elite. He has the rare combination to be able to anchor against strength and shadow speed. When he refines his technique, his punch is going to be a devastating tool to go along with his elite agility/speed/athleticism.

This board needs more K Train's

i thought about nate solder, but solder was really unique...they only prospect he really compared to physically was bruce campbell and despite solder being so raw, he wasnt even in the same universe of rawness as campbell

you love washington lol, hes really not a good player...i cant use him getting the better of fisher as a jumping off point as the senior bowl isnt really a great tool for measuring the players we know about as it is about hearing about complete unknowns for the first time....i dont think washington is a good enough player to get the better of most NFL tackles, and im confident in fishers ability to handle that kind of a player...a few plays in alabama isnt a great measuring point for fisher (the known player) as it is for washington (the unknown player)

i did see what you are talking about though, he took his lunch money...i just take it with a grain of salt. Im going to watch more of Lane now and see if i know what the hell im talking about from what i have seen (which is quite a bit, but theres more out there), but im asking you honestly how do you think he stacks up against Trent Williams? Trent was a 4.8 guy and a great athlete, but imo a little soft. Id like to hear your breakdown of how they compare being the most recent former sooners

NeilPatrickBanana
02-28-2013, 01:39 AM
Trent was a much more polished zone run blocker coming out. He was a natural fit for Shanahan. Trent had the feet to move down the line, and the raw strength to be a premier zone blocker. But what he displayed in natural footwork laterally down the line, was also his biggest weakness in pass protection. He still hasn't developed the pass protection skill you'd expect from a top 10 OT.

Lane, is almost the opposite... Lane is a better pass protector today, than Trent was coming out. Lane shadows as good as anyone, and his hand technique combines with his athleticism/footwork/agility to form the basis for a flawless pass protector. But he's not the polished run blocker that Trent was coming out, but the good news is that he doesn't display flaws, only a still developing skill set.

I think Lane is a much better OT prospect, in comparison to Trent when he came out.
Bottom line, Lane is faster and stronger... a better pass protector... and more scheme versatile. He has to add some bullk, but he has the frame for it.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-28-2013, 01:58 AM
im comfortable with Cornelius Washington as a super sleeper.

he was literally unblockable at senior bowl... i think he drew 3 holding calls in total

If I had to recall 5 specific plays from the Senior Bowl
1. Washington dominating Fischer, Pugh, and Wagner... sack, fumble, 3 holding calls... and a 1 man collapsing machine on nearly every snap
2. Lane Johnson owning Hunt
3. Schwenke leading the way for TD run
4. Franklin showing patience and cut back TD run
5. Ziggy being everywhere

K Train
02-28-2013, 06:04 AM
i actually really hate the senior bowl for some reason

K Train
02-28-2013, 10:30 PM
one major snub from this list is Corey Lemonier.

Cornelius Washington at 49 and Corey Lemonier left off is a travesty. Auburn wasnt a good team and i think thats hurt him a lot when it come to SEC front 7 guys but a 4.6 flat and a 1.67 split.

6-3 255 and the man has a wicked first step. Initially i thought he reminded me too much of Bruce Davis for my liking but hes a much more refined player. Id say hes a better prospect than Worilds was by a lot (dont mind my pure hatred for worilds)

NeilPatrickBanana
03-20-2013, 04:52 PM
Updated