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View Full Version : Dulac, Stating The Obvious But Is 100% Correct



Black@Gold Forever32
02-07-2013, 03:11 PM
????: "Your thoughts as to which position will need to improve in order for the Steelers to improve next season? And your best guess on which position the Steelers need to draft with a high pick?

Gerry Dulac: I think the Steelers have to improve at a number of positions, starting with wide receiver. This is essential because the team should be built around Ben Roethlisberger, and the impending loss of Mike Wallace is only going diminish his quality targets, not to mention hurt what was a very disappointing unit in 2012.

The makeup of the roster has to change too. You can't keep 6 running backs and only 4 wide receivers when you have a quarterback like No. 7. The Packers had seven -- seven!! -- wide receivers and FIVE tight ends on their roster last year to accommodate Aaron Rogers. That is the first thing the Steelers must change.




And they have to get more production from their ouside linebackers. That is the lifeblood of their defense, and their failure to generate the necessary pressure from that position was a glaring fault/problem in 2012."
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"IMO, we need someone of Boldin's size and skill. Can't stand the Ravens, but you can't deny his ability to get up over a defernder, position himself properly, fight for the ball and hold on to it. I thought we had that in AB until last season. Any shot at grabbing such a talent in this draft?

Gerry Dulac: Antonio Brown is not that type of receiver, not like Boldin. That was more Hines Ward's niche. But Todd Haley would like to get a tall receiver for Roethlisberger, so i would expect the Steelers to identify that type of player in the draft. If that's me, I use two of my top five picks on WRs, not waiting till the seventh round like they did last year."

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/inde ... -chat-2613 (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119763-gerry-dulacs-steelers-chat-2613)


The Steelers did keep to many RB's (plus to many mediocre RB's) and didn't keep enough WR's........Plus even though Miller is a beast the Steelers still could a huge upgrade at the TE position.......The Steelers must adapt to survive in the new NFL were offenses rule and really just patch work the defense....I only want to see a pass rusher drafted early and the rest of the picks should be used on offense......So enough with all this talk about using the first pick on a DL, corner or safety.....

As of right now heading into next year and its pretty much clear that Wallace won't be back but here is the list of Steelers skill positions....

RB-Redman-Dwyer, Batch
WR-Brown, Sanders,Cotchery
TE-Paulson, Pope (Miller probably won't be ready at the start of the season)

By the worst skill position players in the NFL........

OFFENSE,OFFENSE,and MORE OFFENSE this draft please.......first five picks should be WR, pass rusher, TE, RB, WR........don't care which order......

NeilPatrickBanana
02-07-2013, 03:34 PM
pretty much what I've been saying for the last few months...

Black@Gold Forever32
02-07-2013, 03:38 PM
pretty much what I've been saying for the last few months...

I know you have and others have as well....I'm just saying there is still some talk about drafting a DL or safety early which really doesn't make sense......When looking how mediocre our RB's are and how weak the WR's/TE's look right now.....

But I just like how the article touched on keeping to many RB's which is spot on.....Keeping only 4 WR's in the NFL these days is just insane......

NeilPatrickBanana
02-07-2013, 03:41 PM
I know you have and others have as well....I'm just saying there is still some talk about drafting a DL or safety early which really doesn't make sense......When looking how mediocre our RB's are and how weak the WR's/TE's look right now.....

But I just like how the article touched on keeping to many RB's which is spot on.....Keeping only 4 WR's in the NFL these days is just insane......

Drafting DL early would be idiotic. Safety in the 1st would be idiotic.
I could see safety in the 2nd or 3rd... depending on what we do about the cap.

I dont think the fan base recognizes how dire the cap situation is. There are going to be more cuts than people realize.

If an elite pass rusher isn't there at #17, a guy they believe starts right away.... then they will take the top WR available.
(or at least that's what they SHOULD do)

They should draft a RB at some point... but, I think they address that in free agency where there are always viable options for low range contracts

Black@Gold Forever32
02-07-2013, 03:45 PM
Drafting DL early would be idiotic. Safety in the 1st would be idiotic.
I could see safety in the 2nd or 3rd... depending on what we do about the cap.

I dont think the fan base recognizes how dire the cap situation is. There are going to be more cuts than people realize.

If an elite pass rusher isn't there at #17, a guy they believe starts right away.... then they will take the top WR available.
(or at least that's what they SHOULD do)

They should draft a RB at some point... but, I think they address that in free agency where there are always viable options for low range contracts

I agree 100 percent with you........first round its WR or pass rusher no doubt....

I also expect cuts and don't look for any Reggie Bush or Bowe signing in free agency....They don't have the cap room so yea the Steelers only option will be to look for bargain type FA's........

Crash
02-07-2013, 04:28 PM
Gerry Dulac: I think the Steelers have to improve at a number of positions, starting with wide receiver. This is essential because the team should be built around Ben Roethlisberger, and the impending loss of Mike Wallace is only going diminish his quality targets, not to mention hurt what was a very disappointing unit in 2012.

The makeup of the roster has to change too. You can't keep 6 running backs and only 4 wide receivers when you have a quarterback like No. 7. The Packers had seven -- seven!! -- wide receivers and FIVE tight ends on their roster last year to accommodate Aaron Rogers. That is the first thing the Steelers must change.

Dulac may lose his press credentials for that one. Art II is probably livid.

coldrolled
02-07-2013, 05:09 PM
if you look at it like this and jarvis jones is not there

you trade back get another #2 and pick up the TE in the first or WR

then load up on two more good picks in the second...

K Train
02-08-2013, 01:20 PM
Drafting DL early would be idiotic. Safety in the 1st would be idiotic.
I could see safety in the 2nd or 3rd... depending on what we do about the cap.

I dont think the fan base recognizes how dire the cap situation is. There are going to be more cuts than people realize.

If an elite pass rusher isn't there at #17, a guy they believe starts right away.... then they will take the top WR available.
(or at least that's what they SHOULD do)

They should draft a RB at some point... but, I think they address that in free agency where there are always viable options for low range contracts
there is only one, maybe 2 elite pass rushers in the draft....i highly doubt one is there at 17, though jarvis MIGHT be

they are 10 million over the cap, really not that bad...they are never extremely under the cap, but always float right around where they are now

heres the current caps:


Current Cap Space, Up-to-Date as of Feb 7, 1620 EST

Arizona ($723,000)
Atlanta $4.9M
Baltimore $20.05M
Buffalo $20.6M
Carolina ($11.8M)
Chicago $13.3M
Cincinnati $55.1M
Cleveland $50.4M
Dallas ($18.2M)
Denver $18.5M
Detroit $7.4M
Green Bay $7.1M
Houston $12.9M
Indianapolis $46M
Jacksonville $22.1M
Kansas City $16.1M
Miami $35.8M
Minnesota $16.1M
New England $18.6M
New Orleans ($14.7M)
NY Giants $4.45M
NY Jets ($19.4M)
Oakland ($4.5M)
Philadelphia $14.8M
Pittsburgh ($10.8M)
San Diego $8.7M
San Francisco $3.9M
Seattle $18.6M
St. Louis $1.3M
Tampa Bay $31.3M
Tennessee $19.4M
Washington ($3.3M)

Cuts Accounted For:
BAL Ray Lewis
CLE Frostee Rucker
DET Titus Young, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Stephen Peterman
NYG Michael Boley, Ahmad Bradshaw, Chris Canty
PHI Demetress Bell
WAS DJ Johnson

Signings Accounted For
NYG Bear Pascoe
STL Titus Young

Id say Hampton, Colon are definite cuts

Harrison, Troy, Ike could all be in contention

Woodley and Brown will be able to shave some money off with a restructure.

Pretty sure they could extend pouncey and lower the hit for this season

Leaves the top 6 needs as WR, OLB, S, G, CB, and RB

I am confident in Lewis (who will be resigned) and allen with Curtis Brown in the nickel, but that adds a need for a guy like Xavier Rhodes or Brandon Banks to be a possibilty in the first and guys like Amerson (even as a safety) in the second.

Like Vaccaro, Reid, Elam as potential safeties that could contribute early

I like jarvis jones, mino, and jordan as first round pass rushers and chase thomas, brandon jenkins as 2nd/3rd rounders

Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson are my guys at WR in 1, while Deandre Hopkins, Justin Hunter, and Terrence Willaism are excellent second round guys

Still dont like the hole on the oline, I'd like to fill LG or C (and move pouncey to LG)

LatrobePA
02-08-2013, 01:52 PM
I see a major overhaul coming... soon!

NYCsteelersfan
02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
If they don't sign a real #1 WR and they don't draft a WR in the first round, then I'll be anticipating next season with as much excitement as a Browns fan.

I bet they take a RB in the first round because a fraction of what Crash says about Rooney living in the 70s and taking too much of an active role in the team's structuring and management holds true in my opinion.

Crash
02-08-2013, 03:15 PM
It is true. Rooney won't flat come out and say it, but people know what he prefers.

He needs to step back, and stop meddling.

Nolrog
02-08-2013, 07:02 PM
Drafting DL early would be idiotic. Safety in the 1st would be idiotic.

I agree. If we don't have an excellent DL and OL for that matter with all those high picks, then the drafting has been a disaster.


I could see safety in the 2nd or 3rd... depending on what we do about the cap.

I agree. There seems to be a few good safeties in this draft, but there doesn't seem to be that one guy everyone says, oh, he's the top safety.


I dont think the fan base recognizes how dire the cap situation is. There are going to be more cuts than people realize.

Gotta pay the piper for trying to keep the SB team together (via restructures) and Colbert's ****** drafting. The sooner we cut the fat, the sooner we can right the ship.


If an elite pass rusher isn't there at #17, a guy they believe starts right away.... then they will take the top WR available.

We need to get past the point where this year's draft pick could maybe see the field in 2015. Let them start, let them make mistakes and let them learn. You didn't see Donta Hightower sit in NE or Bufict (sp?) sit in Cincy.

The problem is, that there are major holes on offense and defense. The drafting strategy over the last few years has been poor. Out of 8 top picks in the last 2 years, 6 were linemen, and our lines are still a problem. That leaves the hope that they hit paydirt in the later rounds, and they've been successful in this; but we can't rely on catching a Lewis or an Antonio Brown in the middle or end of the draft. That's a bad strategy. In fact, I'd argue that there is good value to be had in the middle of the draft in linemen (Aaron Smith and Keisel were both mid-round drafts, as was Mike Webster.)

NYCsteelersfan
02-09-2013, 07:02 PM
He's 100% spot on. In a perfect football world, the Steelers sign a free agent #1 receiver and then spend their first 3 picks on a linebacker, offensive linemen, and another WR or TE. And if they take a linebacker number one overall, then they need to cut Harrison.

Of course the Steelers won't sign any free agents that are worth a damn, especially not a #1 receiver, so they should take two receivers and a TE or another offensive linemen with their first 3 picks.

Of course the Steelers won't do that and they'll sign two defensive players and a running back with their first 3 picks as if this is still the NFL of the 1970s. We're dead meat next season.

Nolrog
02-09-2013, 07:12 PM
Of course the Steelers won't sign any free agents that are worth a damn, especially not a #1 receiver, so they should take two receivers and a TE or another offensive linemen with their first 3 picks.

#1 receivers don't come cheap in FA. We don't have the cap space to pay one.

I do think there will be an emphasis on offense, though I do expect a defensive player selected in the first. With regards to OL, well, our line already consists of two #1s and two #2s. If Tomlin can't make a great line out of so many high picks, then the drafting has been a disaster. We should be able to get good quality line men in the middle of the draft.

NYCsteelersfan
02-09-2013, 07:19 PM
#1 receivers don't come cheap in FA. We don't have the cap space to pay one.

I do think there will be an emphasis on offense, though I do expect a defensive player selected in the first. With regards to OL, well, our line already consists of two #1s and two #2s. If Tomlin can't make a great line out of so many high picks, then the drafting has been a disaster. We should be able to get good quality line men in the middle of the draft.

I think you take another early in anticipation of an injury. The team can't afford to lose one to injury and the rest fall like dominos.

BstripeYpaint
02-10-2013, 02:39 PM
Dear Addicts,

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxkQXlCAfE

CORDARRELLE PATTERSON! He's a fantastic WR prospect. He could also revolutionize our return game. He's got great size, speed, hands, and instincts in the open field.

K Train
02-10-2013, 02:40 PM
i lke patterson a lot, but im not sure where you are excited about his "hands" hes a body catcher, which would be the one major thing from keeping him off the field as a rookie if he cant adjust quickly

steelchamp204
02-10-2013, 02:45 PM
Patterson is exciting to watch, I wouldnt be dissapointed if we drafted him. I think he will go earlier than he should.

BstripeYpaint
02-10-2013, 02:45 PM
If John Stallworth becomes our WR coach, he'll school Patterson on technique.

That young man looks promising.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-10-2013, 03:03 PM
If John Stallworth becomes our WR coach, he'll school Patterson on technique.

That young man looks promising.

Ok I wouldn't bet on Stallworth coaching the Steelers WR's.....Where did that come from?......

K Train
02-10-2013, 03:05 PM
If John Stallworth becomes our WR coach, he'll school Patterson on technique.

That young man looks promising.

lol and what makes you think john stallworth is the next big thing as a coach for WRs?

i wouldnt mind patterson at all, i think hes a phenomenal talent, but a lot fo you are wanting that "play right now" guy and patterson may not be it

Black@Gold Forever32
02-10-2013, 03:10 PM
lol and what makes you think john stallworth is the next big thing as a coach for WRs?

i wouldnt mind patterson at all, i think hes a phenomenal talent, but a lot fo you are wanting that "play right now" guy and patterson may not be it

Just like people suggesting Hines Ward should be WR coach when as far as I know Ward never has expressed an interest in coaching.....Ward is all about doing dancing with the stars, appearing on cooking shows, appearance on the walking dead.....lol

Allen, Patterson, Hopkins, Williams, Wheaton........A WR must be drafted early since Mike Wallace won't be back.....I would be happy with one of those five drafted within the first two rounds.....

K Train
02-10-2013, 03:18 PM
theres steelers that have made some good coaches...lake being one of them, and for being such a talented player thats a rarity. Usually its the less talented guys that rely on masting technique that make good coaches.

Charlie batch would be a better QB coach than he is backup QB (see john harbaugh, not that good of a QB but gets what it takes to be one)...I believe deshea townsend is a DB coach somewhere, he thrived on technique and smarts rather than raw ability. Not saying stallworth COULDNT be a coach (even though that was a random name drop) but just because he was a WR doesnt mean he has a future in developing them

Crash
02-10-2013, 03:20 PM
John Stallworth owns part of the club. He doesn't have to coach. He's made MILLIONS more money off the field than he ever did as a player.

BstripeYpaint
02-10-2013, 04:57 PM
I suppose if the great J. Stallworth had leanings toward coaching, we would have seen them by now. Moreover, one would expect the Steelers to fill that spot with someone with significant coaching experience.

Someone like Harold Jackson at Baylor has a wealth of experience in the NFL and in college. They've generated a pretty explosive offensive down there.

K Train
02-10-2013, 06:14 PM
harold jackson is a relavant name to throw out there....between kendall wright, josh gordon, and terrence williams they have really wow'd when it comes to developing WR talent

K Train
02-10-2013, 06:17 PM
vikes will attempt to trade percy harvin....theres something id be interested in. 17 would be tough to give up but id give up a second and third in a heartbeat

ChucktownSteeler
02-10-2013, 06:20 PM
I am sticking to my guns and feel it has to be LB in the first round. Our defense is predicated on the play of this group and lately Harrison and Woodley haven't been able to stay healthy. Worilds and Carter have shown a little with what little playing time they have had. Foote is getting up there in age, although I would be tempted to bring him back next season. Timmons is a beast. After that, not much to hang your hat on. Spence may have been a good prospect, but it is hard telling if and when he will be back from that gruesome injury.

Big T
02-10-2013, 07:41 PM
vikes will attempt to trade percy harvin....theres something id be interested in. 17 would be tough to give up but id give up a second and third in a heartbeat

Don't get my hopes up now. I'd be ecstatic if we could somehow land Harvin without giving up a 1st. You know me and my Gators lol. He's definitely one of my favorite, if not my favorite, non-Steeler.

Real Deal Steel
02-10-2013, 07:44 PM
I'd pass on Harvin.

K Train
02-10-2013, 07:46 PM
harvin was a top 5 WR and #1 return man last season...if they let wallace go and bring in harvin id be a happy man.


still would prefer bowe though

Big T
02-10-2013, 08:32 PM
harvin was a top 5 WR and #1 return man last season...if they let wallace go and bring in harvin id be a happy man.


still would prefer bowe though

Agreed. Like Ben, Harvin was an MVP candidate before he got injured. I'd love to see him a Steeler.

BstripeYpaint
02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
Two thumbs up on project Harvin; I hope we see that materialize. When he's headache-free, he's very impressive.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-10-2013, 09:50 PM
im a big fan of Harvin... I don't think we should bring him here though

Real Deal Steel
02-11-2013, 01:06 AM
harvin was a top 5 WR and #1 return man last season...if they let wallace go and bring in harvin id be a happy man.


still would prefer bowe though

This. Give me Bowe

steelchamp204
02-11-2013, 12:21 PM
Harvin, do we really need another guy who is injury prone on top of Woodley/Troy/Harrison and group of Rb's?

Stick with Bowe. I like Harvin

Black@Gold Forever32
02-11-2013, 01:12 PM
Bowe isn't happening......The Steelers don't have the cap room and I would be shocked if they traded for Harvin......

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 01:21 PM
What are the Odds that Harvin ends up traded to the Pats... 2:1 ?

Big T
02-11-2013, 02:22 PM
What are the Odds that Harvin ends up traded to the Pats... 2:1 ?

Extremely likely. And he would thrive it that offense. Belichick loves Florida players and tends to look past any off the field concerns (Aaron Hernandez, Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham, Jeff Demps). And with their need at WR, it's a perfect fit.

steelcitysfinestXL
02-11-2013, 02:45 PM
Extremely likely. And he would thrive it that offense. Belichick loves Florida players and tends to look past any off the field concerns (Aaron Hernandez, Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham, Jeff Demps). And with their need at WR, it's a perfect fit.

I agree with everything you said: But when was the last time the Pats traded FOR a player in his Prime? I think guys like Moss, Welker, Corey Dillon were all FA's that re-invented themselves as Patriots.

Big T
02-11-2013, 03:42 PM
I agree with everything you said: But when was the last time the Pats traded FOR a player in his Prime? I think guys like Moss, Welker, Corey Dillon were all FA's that re-invented themselves as Patriots.

Moss and Welker were both traded for in 07. A 2nd and a late round pick (if I remember correctly) to Miami for Welker, and a 4th to Oakland for Moss.

I think the Percy Harvin situation is too perfect for them to pass up. IMO, he's better than Welker and would cost less to extend.

steelcitysfinestXL
02-11-2013, 04:02 PM
Moss and Welker were both traded for in 07. A 2nd and a late round pick (if I remember correctly) to Miami for Welker, and a 4th to Oakland for Moss.

I stand corrected! I thought Welker was a FA from the fins but I was a lil unsure about Moss.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 05:56 PM
I stand corrected! I thought Welker was a FA from the fins but I was a lil unsure about Moss.

Welker technically was a restricted free agent. The Patriots signed him to a RFA Tender. The Dolphins had the right to match. They did, so that they could work out a better trade. Compensation was a 2nd. The trade was a 2nd and 7th if I remember correctly.

You are both correct. The Patriots signed Welker, and then traded for him after Miami matched the offer.

Goodfrom55
02-11-2013, 06:04 PM
My stance on this is simple - If the Steelers can get either Chance Warmack or Jarvis Jones in the 1st round, they can't pass that up. If the Steelers get Warmack, their line is set for the next 10 years. If they get Jarvis, the Steelers could then shift Harrison to the middle with LT if they retain Harrison at all.

However, if neither is available, which will likely be the case, then get the best player for the most glaring weakness. . . .BUT there is also so apprehension about a WR or RB in the 1st round because of the Steelers finding gold in the mid to later rounds with WR's.

K Train
02-11-2013, 06:43 PM
steelers cant seem to find gold in any mid-late round regardless of position. Wr is absolutely a very real possibility in the first, RB is more so in the second

Zachintosh66
02-11-2013, 07:47 PM
Warmack doesnt fit the direction they wanna go...

Goodfrom55
02-11-2013, 07:57 PM
Warmack doesnt fit the direction they wanna go...

You don't think he is versatile enough to adapt to a zone blocking scheme? According to Bick, thery want to get away from the sloppy O-line guys and get more athletic guys up front. If available, hard to pass him up, but I do understand the need elsewhere.

Nolrog
02-11-2013, 08:06 PM
My stance on this is simple - If the Steelers can get either Chance Warmack or Jarvis Jones in the 1st round, they can't pass that up. If the Steelers get Warmack, their line is set for the next 10 years. If they get Jarvis, the Steelers could then shift Harrison to the middle with LT if they retain Harrison at all.

The line is already set for the next 10 years, with two #1 picks and two #2 picks. There's no way Warmack is the pick, you can take that to the bank.

Harrison will be cut no matter what. He's too old and too injured to move anywhere. In addition, Jarvis Jones scares the hell out of me. He has that neck thing that could shorten his career, and I read something that said he's not a big work out guy, which troubles me in the NFL. He could get by on his talent in college, but the NFL is a whole different matter.

ChucktownSteeler
02-11-2013, 08:21 PM
I think they have to go LB in the first, Mingo or Minter. Defense in the first this year, no doubt. You may see defense in the second as well, but more than likely RB.

Goodfrom55
02-11-2013, 08:27 PM
You might be right, but if I had to stake my claim on left guard, and it came down to Beachum or Warmack, I lean towards Warmack.

If you had it your way, who would your #1 pick be?

Goodfrom55
02-11-2013, 08:28 PM
WHat RB's are on the radar, ?

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 09:25 PM
Warmack doesnt fit the direction they wanna go...

this is true... but the oline fans won't see it.
going zone, you can take Warmack off the board completely

K Train
02-11-2013, 09:42 PM
some of you dont realize how big of a hole we have at LG and just how good warmack is. if hes the pick the oline is up there in legendary company for the next 10 or so years

Big T
02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Going zone could put Jonathan Cooper more on their radar. He's extremely athletic and gets to the second level constantly. He's be a good fit as the primary pull guy (LG). I think 17 is a little early for him, but i could see him being a candidate for a trade back if guys like Jarvis Jones, Mingo, Keenan Allen, Te'o (*gasp*) etc, are already off the board. But I think Warmack is just way too good to overlook because of them possibly going zone.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 09:49 PM
some of you dont realize how big of a hole we have at LG and just how good warmack is. if hes the pick the oline is up there in legendary company for the next 10 or so years

Warmack doesn't have the lateral agility to have 1st round value to a zone scheme team

Stating that our completely unproven offensive line, will enter "legendary" status after the addition of a promising rookie? Holy Hyperbole... :hilarious:

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 09:49 PM
Going zone could put Jonathan Cooper more on their radar. He's extremely athletic and gets to the second level constantly. He's be a good fit as the primary pull guy (LG). I think 17 is a little early for him, but i could see him being a candidate for a trade back if guys like Jarvis Jones, Mingo, Keenan Allen, Te'o (*gasp*) etc, are already off the board.

agreed. Cooper is a much better fit based on our schematic direction. too bad he won't be available in the 2nd round.

and i wouldnt be surprised if Cooper was taken before Warmack because of it...

K Train
02-11-2013, 10:15 PM
warmack would be just fine, we arent the 2005 denver broncos all of a sudden....cooper is a lot like pouncey athletically, but you dont want a bunch of those guys all together neccesarily....pouncey is much more effective with maulers around him (gilbert and adams too for that matter would benefit from bigger, tougher, stronger guards)

JollyRob68
02-11-2013, 10:17 PM
Miller won't be ready. Draft 6'6" TE Ertz or Eifert. They could make an impact as rookies. Paulson cam also be put out wide
I'd love Vacarro,Minster,Teo,Williams or Elam on D but moving down getting an extra 2 or 3 us an impact Wr,Rb or Te in the first.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 10:57 PM
warmack would be just fine, we arent the 2005 denver broncos all of a sudden....cooper is a lot like pouncey athletically, but you dont want a bunch of those guys all together neccesarily....pouncey is much more effective with maulers around him (gilbert and adams too for that matter would benefit from bigger, tougher, stronger guards)

explain how... because not only do I completely disagree, but so does the coaching staff based on the direction they are taking the oline.

They want their tackles to work in space, and their Guards to be able to get to the next level quickly. They aren't looking for maulers, they are looking for movers.... Look at the guards out in KC the last few years. Smaller athletic guys like Lilja and Hochstein and Asamoah. These guys are 300 pounders... not maulers like Colon or Kemoeatu.

Sorry... you're wrong on this one.

coldrolled
02-11-2013, 10:58 PM
Trade down... Get Ertz or Eifert, Minter... lower in 1

then pick up the extra #2's Barrett Jones - Eifert - Lacy etc....

slide pouncey over.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-11-2013, 11:05 PM
i wouldnt waste a 1st on any of the TEs in this draft...

K Train
02-11-2013, 11:48 PM
explain how... because not only do I completely disagree, but so does the coaching staff based on the direction they are taking the oline.

They want their tackles to work in space, and their Guards to be able to get to the next level quickly. They aren't looking for maulers, they are looking for movers.... Look at the guards out in KC the last few years. Smaller athletic guys like Lilja and Hochstein and Asamoah. These guys are 300 pounders... not maulers like Colon or Kemoeatu.

Sorry... you're wrong on this one.
they dont want smurfs blocking for them though..cooper is like 290 pounds and 6-3...decastro is 6-5 316. pouncey is 6-5 310, warmack is 6-3 320 and can move way better than you are giving him credit for

tackles work much better in space when they have stud guards playing, im just not that high on cooper right now his weight is a serious concern for me. i cant think of a single dline i wouldnt feel comfortable playing warmack, pouncey, and decastro against.

Mike adams is a great second level player, gilbert not so much but by upgrading the interior with guys who can move, move others, and pass block (all three would be awesome at all of them) that allows the tackles to play in space.

They are going much more like the saints than they are the broncos (shanny) or texans (kubiak) or the chiefs (we dont have a one cut runner like charles, foster, or any broncos back from the last decade). Saints got studs in nicks and evans (and now grubbs) but they arent really pure zone guys, but they allow them to play anyone at tackle effectively

Warmack, like decasto is a top 5 player in the draft...if he or jones are there it would be tough to pass.....i do like ertz there too, as well as vacarro, mingo, eifert, patterson, allen.

aside from that though, im not opposed to drafting frederick in 2 and making pouncey the best LG in the league (and probably take a load off his ankles)

side note: Dion Jordan is really souring on me as a first round pick lately, i was on board for a while but the more i watch the more i think hes gonna be aaron maybin. he looks like hes gonna be under 230 which is scary

NeilPatrickBanana
02-12-2013, 12:29 AM
with Haley and Bicknell... I think it's patently ridiculous to say they aren't going to be like the Chiefs because they lack a 1 cut runner. They will be adding RBs both through FA and the draft. They most definitely will be going towards 1 cut, stretch zone scheme.

The running game you saw this year was the Arians/Kirby running game... they will be installing an entirely new running game.

Jordan played the entire season with a torn labrum... i'm not worried, because the athletic talent is visible on tape. I hate the Maybin comparison. Maybin was a pure DE... and even the tape showed you that he was a one trick pony, who was going to struggle when his first step was neutralized by NFL Tackles, and his skillsets as a rusher were non existant after that first step. Too often explosion off the line is confused for athleticism and speed. Maybin was slow as mollasas. And his explosion at the NFL level was not nearly enough to make up for his shortcomings in speed and technique.

Jordan is playing all over the field. His athleticism is on display in multiple fronts and multiple roles. Is he raw? Yup, but he has the things that can't be taught and nothing that indicates he anything less.

JollyRob68
02-12-2013, 12:44 AM
6'6" physical te. I'd take them all day. I'm sure we can get one later in the draft. However I'd move back in the round unless Warmack is the. I'd snatch Warmack.

K Train
02-12-2013, 12:05 PM
with Haley and Bicknell... I think it's patently ridiculous to say they aren't going to be like the Chiefs because they lack a 1 cut runner. They will be adding RBs both through FA and the draft. They most definitely will be going towards 1 cut, stretch zone scheme.

The running game you saw this year was the Arians/Kirby running game... they will be installing an entirely new running game.

Jordan played the entire season with a torn labrum... i'm not worried, because the athletic talent is visible on tape. I hate the Maybin comparison. Maybin was a pure DE... and even the tape showed you that he was a one trick pony, who was going to struggle when his first step was neutralized by NFL Tackles, and his skillsets as a rusher were non existant after that first step. Too often explosion off the line is confused for athleticism and speed. Maybin was slow as mollasas. And his explosion at the NFL level was not nearly enough to make up for his shortcomings in speed and technique.

Jordan is playing all over the field. His athleticism is on display in multiple fronts and multiple roles. Is he raw? Yup, but he has the things that can't be taught and nothing that indicates he anything less.

my problem isnt really comparing the players, its the situation...maybin was praised for his explosive first step, he lost that when he gained weight to play OLB/DE in the pros and any tackle could just neutralize him. for a 34 LB it would be scary to take jordan if hes beween 220-230, not because hes a bad player but because he will easily be neutralized especially at his height...hes still a WR transitioning to playing defense, but his best fit may not be 34 OLB but rather a stand up 43 OLB ala manny lawson cause like you said he did play everywhere

and as far as warmack goes, i guess were not going to agree but he can play in the new system just as good...all teams run some variation of power man and ZBS, i get what they were doing in KC in drafting guys like asamoah and hudson (hudson is a guy that was undersized but so perfectly technically sound, i swear he didnt miss a block his entire 4 years starting for FSU) but its not like albert and winston are the prototypes for ZBS OTs.

I am not saying they need a player like warmack, but theres not way cooper would make them better than warmack would. I would not want Larry Warford, he does not fit and he can not move...warmack definitely can

Id prefer a WR anyway, or pass rusher, or TE....just saying how Jordan doesnt seem like the best fit to me anymore

K Train
02-21-2013, 05:25 PM
Jonathan Cooper checks into the combine at 311 pounds, he is poised to skyrocket up boards at that weight

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 05:44 PM
Jonathan Cooper checks into the combine at 311 pounds, he is poised to skyrocket up boards at that weight

Cooper is a better fit for us.
I still wouldnt draft OL in the first

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 05:46 PM
my problem isnt really comparing the players, its the situation...maybin was praised for his explosive first step, he lost that when he gained weight to play OLB/DE in the pros and any tackle could just neutralize him. for a 34 LB it would be scary to take jordan if hes beween 220-230, not because hes a bad player but because he will easily be neutralized especially at his height...hes still a WR transitioning to playing defense, but his best fit may not be 34 OLB but rather a stand up 43 OLB ala manny lawson cause like you said he did play everywhere

and as far as warmack goes, i guess were not going to agree but he can play in the new system just as good...all teams run some variation of power man and ZBS, i get what they were doing in KC in drafting guys like asamoah and hudson (hudson is a guy that was undersized but so perfectly technically sound, i swear he didnt miss a block his entire 4 years starting for FSU) but its not like albert and winston are the prototypes for ZBS OTs.

I am not saying they need a player like warmack, but theres not way cooper would make them better than warmack would. I would not want Larry Warford, he does not fit and he can not move...warmack definitely can

Id prefer a WR anyway, or pass rusher, or TE....just saying how Jordan doesnt seem like the best fit to me anymore

I respect your doubts

For me, Jordan is comparable to Troy P, in the sense that he's an athletic freak who you design a defense around. I'm not worried about his size as long as the idea in drafting him isn't to line him up in the same position and run the same plays that you did with James Harrison.

I think Jordan is a potential game changer, and you draft him as such.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 05:48 PM
and... eric winston is the prototype ZBS tackle.

K Train
02-21-2013, 05:53 PM
I respect your doubts

For me, Jordan is comparable to Troy P, in the sense that he's an athletic freak who you design a defense around. I'm not worried about his size as long as the idea in drafting him isn't to line him up in the same position and run the same plays that you did with James Harrison.

I think Jordan is a potential game changer, and you draft him as such.
Dont have total faith they would use him like that, i fear they would put him in a position to struggle since they are used to these shorter, stockier, powerful OLBs.

Imo hes 3rd on potential pass rushers for us...hes very comfortable in space which would help him out tremendously, but we could be looking at demarcus ware or we could be looking at julian peterson/manny lawson who is a bad fit for us, despite being good players.

Jarvis Jones imo is better than Von Miller was
Barkevious Mingo is better than Aldon Smith
then you have Dion Jordan, who has all the tools but hes not going to be a plug and play player like everyone around here wants...im just saying right now that if the steelers draft a guy like jordan or cordarelle patterson we are going to have a lot of people bitching about how they are busts right away but they are guys that are going to need patience

His 40 time might shoot him to the jets at 9 though

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:01 PM
Dont have total faith they would use him like that, i fear they would put him in a position to struggle since they are used to these shorter, stockier, powerful OLBs.

Imo hes 3rd on potential pass rushers for us...hes very comfortable in space which would help him out tremendously, but we could be looking at demarcus ware or we could be looking at julian peterson/manny lawson who is a bad fit for us, despite being good players.

Jarvis Jones imo is better than Von Miller was
Barkevious Mingo is better than Aldon Smith
then you have Dion Jordan, who has all the tools but hes not going to be a plug and play player like everyone around here wants...im just saying right now that if the steelers draft a guy like jordan or cordarelle patterson we are going to have a lot of people bitching about how they are busts right away but they are guys that are going to need patience

i enjoy our draft talks... so don't take offense... please

but these are the most absurd observations/opinions i've read on the board yet (from the group of non morons)

your comparing keenan allen to calvin johnson here...

K Train
02-21-2013, 06:04 PM
i enjoy our draft talks... so don't take offense... please

but these are the most absurd observations/opinions i've read on the board yet (from the group of non morons)

your comparing keenan allen to calvin johnson here...

as prospects********

my bad, should have clarified that. Von wasnt always a top 5 lock and then once he did establish himself as that he was either going 2 to denver or 3 to buffalo. And aldon smith was not a top 10 prospect, him going 7 was a surprise by the niners and one that paid off.

I had DEs ranked:
Robert Quinn
DaQuan Bowers
JJ Watt
Cameron Jordan
Adrian Clayborne
Cameron Heyward
Aldon Smith

I had OLBs Ranked:
Von Miller
Bruce Carter
Aldon Smith
Akeem Ayers
Justin Houston
Dontay Moch
Mason Foster

Jarvis and Von would be close if they were in the same year, but Mingo and Smith wouldnt even be a question to me

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:18 PM
as prospects********

my bad, should have clarified that. Von wasnt always a top 5 lock and then once he did establish himself as that he was either going 2 to denver or 3 to buffalo. And aldon smith was not a top 10 prospect, him going 7 was a surprise by the niners and one that paid off.

they aren't even in the same ball park as prospects

Aldon Smith going #9 was not a surprise at all. I thought he would go #3 (buf) or #5 (ari)

K Train
02-21-2013, 06:25 PM
they aren't even in the same ball park as prospects

Aldon Smith going #9 was not a surprise at all. I thought he would go #3 (buf) or #5 (ari)

i edited my post with rankings, Smith was not that highly rated by most....mingo is way better than smith was at the same point in the process, smith was riding off JPPs success as a high risk high reward pass rusher which i imagine is going to become more and more normal. Mingo could end up going as high as 2 or 4...although i hope not

In hindsight its easy to say they were top 5 picks, but realistically i didnt think he'd go until houston or minny at the ealiest (12 and 13 i think, id have to check) and i DEFINITELY didnt think he'd go over quinn.

Not even in the same ball park is seriously 20/20 hindsight, because they are both great players in the league right now

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:26 PM
I think comparing Mingo to Aldon makes sense though. That's a fair comparison for his ceiling. But he's not in that scope as a prospect/expected potential. Similar skill sets, style of play... less pure athleticism/talent

The Jones to Miller comparison is just awful. Different types of players. One, was an all time prospect... the other just isn't on the same level at all

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:28 PM
dont get me wrong... i'd love drafting with either one at #17...

K Train
02-21-2013, 06:28 PM
I think comparing Mingo to Aldon makes sense though. That's a fair comparison for his ceiling. But he's not in that scope as a prospect/expected potential. Similar skill sets, style of play... less pure athleticism/talent

The Jones to Miller comparison is just awful. Different types of players. One, was an all time prospect... the other just isn't on the same level at all
Jones and Miller are very simialr...could play 34 OLB, 43 OLB..it doesnt matter. They are studs with lightning first steps. You can say all time prospect, but really Aaron Curry and Lavaar Arrington were the same way.

I think your underrating Mingos athletic ability....i expect him to dazzle at the combine

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:29 PM
cant wait for the combine :cope:

NeilPatrickBanana
02-21-2013, 06:35 PM
Jarvis just doesn't have the elite pass rush explosion and technical skill to get to the QB that Von had coming out. The tape is clear as day. Jones has a lot of physical talent... but nowhere near the all pro skills that Von came out with. Von was one of the best pass rushers in the NFL the day he signed his contract.

The day Jarvis signs his contract he will be a very intriguing prospect with a very bright future.

Von Miller was about as much of a sure thing as there is in the draft

K Train
02-21-2013, 06:46 PM
i get it, i have jones as the #1 player in the entire draft and if it wasnt for the possible spine problem i think that would be the consensus.

Again, Aaron Curry was supposed to be the truth at LB and the safest pick in the draft. Its easy to say Von was safe since he became an instant star but you dont here people coming back that were all over currys nuts because he was a total flop. Curry almost went #1 that year.

Its tough taking LBs in the top 5 because for every von miller (and imo Jarvis) you get a curry, arrington, AJ Hawk

BstripeYpaint
02-21-2013, 07:44 PM
i get it, i have jones as the #1 player in the entire draft and if it wasnt for the possible spine problem i think that would be the consensus.

Again, Aaron Curry was supposed to be the truth at LB and the safest pick in the draft. Its easy to say Von was safe since he became an instant star but you dont here people coming back that were all over currys nuts because he was a total flop. Curry almost went #1 that year.

Its tough taking LBs in the top 5 because for every von miller (and imo Jarvis) you get a curry, arrington, AJ Hawk

Damn, you guys really know the landscape. This site is contributing to my continued education! I love it.

The Steelers are the friggin best!