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View Full Version : Haley ran the ball LESS



NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 05:03 PM
2012
21st in Run as percent of plays called
12th in Pass as percent of plays called
40.27 percent of plays called were RUN
59.23 percent of plays called were PASS

The PASS was a higher percent of our offense, than at any point in the last 10 years

You know those handful of series that stand out in your mind, and frustrate you because we ran on 1st and 2nd down.... well, those handful of series do not constitute an entire offense. You are looking at a fraction of a fraction of a percent of play calls.

The Steelers called more PASS plays as a percent of plays called than the Green Bay Packers, Denver Bronocos, New England Patriots, New York Giants.

The only playoff team that through the ball more often than the Steelers... was Atlanta

If you prorate Roethlisbergers Pass Plays over the time he missed (575 attempts), he would've thrown the 8th most passes in the league... only a few behind Peyton (583), and a few ahead of Rodgers (552)

You are wrong if you think any of the following :
- The Steelers were a run first team in 2012
- The Steelers emphasized the run over the pass in 2012
- Haley turned the Steelers into a run first team

This isn't a debate. You can either accept the facts, or bury your head back in your false belief.

Crash
01-18-2013, 05:15 PM
When and what type?

Arians was DESTROYED for his use of WR screens. Haley used them much worse.

When you have a minute to go in the half? You aren't running unless you go in the locker room.

7.3 YPA

Second lowest of Ben's career.

8-8.

K Train
01-18-2013, 05:17 PM
who give a ****? he was working with way less talented RBs, i for one would rather throw the ball every play thatn hand it off to issac freaking redman for anything more than a 1-2 yard gain.

Mendenhall being hurt/inactive/suspended whatever was seriously affecting the play calling because no one, NO ONE was afraid of redman and dwyer even if they posted a few meaningless 100 yard stat games they still werent totally effective most of the time.

the offense needed to pass the ball, and they would be a playoff team if ben didnt end games on interceptions in the 4th and OT like 3 times in the year

that being said the best run blockers on the team (pouncey, colon, and mike adams) were hurt for a lot of the season when you combine their injuries

USMC607
01-18-2013, 05:26 PM
As far as RB's go i guess we dont have to worry about them not being scary to other teams since it looks like that position is going to be gutted.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 05:32 PM
When and what type?

do your own research. clearly you didn't or you'd have it ready
*queue reference to 3 drives out of 200


Arians was DESTROYED for his use of WR screens. Haley used them much worse.

Passes are not runs... the accusation is that Haley/Rooney turned the team into a run first, run focused, or run heavy offense... none of which is even remotely true. It's false. Completely False.


When you have a minute to go in the half? You aren't running unless you go in the locker room.

That's a cute statement. Do you know how many TD/FG were scored in the NFL this season on a drive started in the final minute? Want to guess what percentage of those drives included run plays? I am asking you to guess, only because Ii already know that research isn't your strong suit.


7.3 YPA

Second lowest of Ben's career.

8-8.

I agree with the importance of YPA.
I also know that YPA has nothing to do with the Run game.

Goodfrom55
01-18-2013, 05:37 PM
A lot of the WR screens were hot read calls by Ben. I just know that during the Steelers 4 game winning streak this year, they were averaging over 135 YPG rushing and rolling along and there wasn't too much complaining about running the ball.

Everything hit the fan once Ben got hurt.

In 2013, if the Steelers are relatively healthy but the offense shows the same inedptitude like they did games 10-16, then I will question whether or not Haley is the offensive answer. They were a JV team on offense in games 10-16 with a depleted O-line and a very injured QB who gutted out coming back earlier than he should have.

Crash, not calling you out, but that 4 game win streak happened before you started posting on the board on a regular basis. What are your thoughts on that?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 05:43 PM
A lot of the WR screens were hot read calls by Ben. I just know that during the Steelers 4 game winning streak this year, they were averaging over 135 YPG rushing and rolling along and there wasn't too much complaining about running the ball.

Everything hit the fan once Ben got hurt.

In 2013, if the Steelers are relatively healthy but the offense shows the same inedptitude like they did games 10-16, then I will question whether or not Haley is the offensive answer. They were a JV team on offense in games 10-16 with a depleted O-line and a very injured QB who gutted out coming back earlier than he should have.

Crash, not calling you out, but that 4 game win streak happened before you started posting on the board on a regular basis. What are your thoughts on that?

Agreed. I expect significant improvement in execution next year
1 - Healthy QB
2 - 2nd year in playbook
3 - young, healthy oline with year of experience

Concerns :
1 - Lack of playmakers on offense

K Train
01-18-2013, 05:46 PM
ben getting hurt was just an unfortunately massive blow to the team

Goodfrom55
01-18-2013, 05:47 PM
Concerns :
1 - Lack of playmakers on offense

The backfield concerns me the most. Are we looking at the days of Frank Pollard or Walter Abecrombie?

With the WR's, until they prove they can beat press coverage, most teams are going to line up and try to jam the WR's at the LOS. Defenses can stay in cover 2 here because there is no threat of any type of running game, and we have a banged up TE.

those are my offensive concerns.

Crash
01-18-2013, 06:29 PM
That's a cute statement. Do you know how many TD/FG were scored in the NFL this season on a drive started in the final minute

The STEELERS led the NFL in points scored in the final 2 minutes.

Why? Because Haley's obsession with no hopers like Johnson and Paulson, and his constant rotation of running backs, can't happen when they are in hurry up.

Basically, the athletes are on the field, and the overachievers aren't.

Crash
01-18-2013, 06:34 PM
Crash, not calling you out, but that 4 game win streak happened before you started posting on the board on a regular basis. What are your thoughts on that?

Simple, injuries to the running game, was the best thing that happened during that streak.

It forced Haley to stick with one guy. He couldn't muck it up with his constant micro-management of the position.

It's the only time all year the run game looked decent.

Teams adjusted. It was Heath Miller (and not Ben Roethlisberger) who said, starting with the Chiefs game, that teams began cheating up, to take away the short passing game.

And Haley never did anything to adjust to that. He just called the same plays, in the same situations, and expected the same results.

Crash
01-18-2013, 06:35 PM
The backfield concerns me the most. Are we looking at the days of Frank Pollard or Walter Abecrombie?

They were actually pretty good.

This reminds me of 1991 before Barry Foster took over in 1992.

jdehoff83
01-18-2013, 07:29 PM
Its not the percentage of this or that its when those plays are called and how effective they are when they are called. That is the glaring problem with some of the games its not we run we run then pass.. sure that can be frustrating but if we run pick up 5 run pick up 3 .. i like 3rd and 2 ??? Who doesnt? My point is that its haleys job to make them calls that should be most effective at that time to move the ball down the field and he was good at times but notso good others, inconsistent. Just like the whole team.. try better next year

Ibleedblk&gld
01-18-2013, 07:49 PM
unless we're effectively picking up first downs in the run, run, pass scheme, I hate it...it seemed like more often than not, we were going run, run, pass, punt...run - pick up 3, run - pick up 3, incomplete pass (or bubble screen for a loss), punt

or passing on a 3rd and short, running on a 3rd and long....

Crash
01-18-2013, 07:58 PM
Here's Haley's offense.

Run up the middle.

Shot gun draw.

WR screen.

Mike Wallace running reverses (and failing) on 2nd down.

Get in the red zone? Force feed Heath Miller when not running the ball.

Ibleedblk&gld
01-18-2013, 08:02 PM
give it another year...hopefully the right changes are made

Crash
01-18-2013, 08:08 PM
They don't even know what the changes should be.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 08:27 PM
Here's Haley's offense.

Run up the middle.

Shot gun draw.

WR screen.

Mike Wallace running reverses (and failing) on 2nd down.

Get in the red zone? Force feed Heath Miller when not running the ball.

Almost ALL shotgun draw calls are made by the QB at the line. You'd know that if you knew anything about that which you claim such a detailed opinion about

Crash
01-18-2013, 09:47 PM
Of course they are. Because you are in the locker room and in Haley's headset.

USMC607
01-18-2013, 10:45 PM
Almost ALL shotgun draw calls are made by the QB at the line. You'd know that if you knew anything about that which you claim such a detailed opinion about

That actually is true... I know it doesnt mean squat, but in highschool our QB was told to audible to a draw if we were going up against any aggresive defenses to pull the pass rushers and open up running room. That doesnt mean the steelers do this but it has truth to it...

NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 11:00 PM
Of course they are. Because you are in the locker room and in Haley's headset.

says the guy who speaks as if he's Art Rooney's chauffeur

Crash
01-18-2013, 11:20 PM
Art's words speak for themself. I don't have to speak for him.

He's an idiot, and he'll be the one who drags this team down if the old man doesn't reign him in.

LatrobePA
01-18-2013, 11:42 PM
Here we go again!

Get7With7
01-18-2013, 11:44 PM
Haven't we learned that run/pass ratio is not important yet? It's about substance kids, not stats. Bubble screens count as passes.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-18-2013, 11:50 PM
Haven't we learned that run/pass ratio is not important yet? It's about substance kids, not stats. Bubble screens count as passes.

we dont teach stupid

Crash
01-19-2013, 12:28 AM
we dont teach stupid

But you've mastered it pretty well.

steelchamp204
01-19-2013, 01:22 AM
Here we go again!

:lol:

Nolrog
01-19-2013, 07:36 AM
Here we go again!

I agree. BRC, can't you confine all the I hate Haley into one thread? It's much easier for me to ignore that way.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-04-2013, 08:40 PM
bump...
reminder to crash

notice how the argument about the running game morphs into something else when confronted with evidence

Crash
02-05-2013, 12:42 AM
Dallas 50

Run run pass.

Cincy 32

Run run pass.

Steelers 46 in the same game:

WR screen, run run run, Ben scramble.

If that's the offense we want to be? Ben has to go.

Period.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-05-2013, 08:03 AM
Broken record

Crash
02-05-2013, 10:34 AM
8-8.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-05-2013, 11:52 AM
8-8.

Broken record

3rd time Ben has missed the playoffs, once each with 3 different OCs

Crash
02-05-2013, 12:29 PM
Ben didn't play against Baltimore I or the Browns.

Win one of those and it's completely different.

Haley's play-calling against the Ravens in Pittsburgh was a joke. A 3rd and 2 fade pattern with Byron Leftwich.

Sheer brilliance.

steelchamp204
02-05-2013, 01:07 PM
Broken record

3rd time Ben has missed the playoffs, once each with 3 different OCs

This.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-05-2013, 02:25 PM
Ben didn't play against Baltimore I or the Browns.

Win one of those and it's completely different.

Haley's play-calling against the Ravens in Pittsburgh was a joke. A 3rd and 2 fade pattern with Byron Leftwich.

Sheer brilliance.

broken record

you've made the fade pattern comment before... it was just as dumb then as it is now.

If Ben played in those 2 games, wouldn't the play calling have been so bad, that we would've lost? Like in the 6 games Ben did play, and we lost? You can't have it both ways.... We lost because we didn't have Ben, but when we did and lost (cinci) it's because of the playcalling even though Ben lost the Cinci game single handedly

Keep serving up the softballs

Crash
02-05-2013, 02:28 PM
If Ben played in those 2 games, wouldn't the play calling have been so bad, that we would've lost?

Ben can throw the fade pattern. Byron Leftwich can't.

Single handedly? Hardly.

My stance on Ben won't change: If this offense is what they want? He has to go.

You can't turn Ben into Trent Dilfer while paying him $20 mil on your cap.

Go get running backs, go get more defense, pay accused gang rapist but somehow a hometown hero Charlie Batch $3 mil a year to hand off, and trade Ben for two #1's and start over.

Can't pigeon hole an entire team just to satisfy Art II and clueless idiots.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Ben can throw the fade pattern. Byron Leftwich can't.

what a dumb comment...


Single handedly? Hardly.

He handed them 10 of their 13 points.... in a 13-10 game. If that's not single handedly losing a game... I don't know what is.


My stance on Ben won't change: If this offense is what they want? He has to go.

That's not a stance on Ben. That's a delusion of what the offense is by irrationally focusing on 1 percent of playcalls and creating a fantasy about the organization based on conjecture.

No one believes for a second that you will change your stance. You are a irrational person with a belief.


You can't turn Ben into Trent Dilfer while paying him $20 mil on your cap.

Broken Record. Statistics have been pointed out numerous times that make your comparison poop squash



Can't pigeon hole an entire team just to satisfy clueless idiots.

Aint that the truth

Crash
02-05-2013, 02:43 PM
Broken Record. Statistics have been pointed out numerous times that make your comparison poop squash

Like what? The 2nd lowest yards per attempt in his career and the gross number of short passes?

We don't attack anymore. Slow, plodding, deliberate, passive garbage.

And for what reason? To "rest" a defensive unit that gets DOUBLE the freaking cap dollars.

NeilPatrickBanana
02-05-2013, 04:40 PM
Like what? The 2nd lowest yards per attempt in his career and the gross number of short passes?

We don't attack anymore. Slow, plodding, deliberate, passive garbage.

And for what reason? To "rest" a defensive unit that gets DOUBLE the freaking cap dollars.

Before he was injured, he had the best QBR, the best Passer Rating, and the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of his career.

You're a moron who looks at stats via a massive bias

And none of the stats are can relevantly be compared to Trent Dilfer