PDA

View Full Version : What Im jealous of, of playoff teams



steelchamp204
01-14-2013, 10:47 AM
There ability to protect there quarterback. Every single playoff game I think I have watched this postseason(which hasnt been all, but most) the qb stays off the damn ground.Year after year after year, Ben doesnt get near the great protection as Ryan/Flacco/Brady/Manning and even Russell Wilson. Im sorry for the rant.

Im glag Kugler is gone now, I really hope we nail a good oline coach like we got a good secon dary coach in Lake. We need some new schemes. Yes, the line has been banged up this season, but how many times have we seen lines banged up against us, or other games with migshift lines and they play just as well. It has to be the schemes they are running.

USMC607
01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
Im glad Kuglers gone too because he was terrible at everything from coaching to conditioning...

But those line problems have been there way b4 he got here...

LatrobePA
01-14-2013, 10:55 AM
It's not Kuglers fault he was giving crap talent for the last couple years to work with...

JensK
01-14-2013, 10:58 AM
It's not Kuglers fault he was giving crap talent for the last couple years to work with...

2x first round picks
2x second round picks

that is more "talent" than 90% of all NFL teams have on their o-line. We just cannot find a way to keep ours healthy. Ultimately, that falls back on the coaching. in my book.

LatrobePA
01-14-2013, 11:00 AM
2x first round picks
2x second round picks

that is more "talent" than 90% of all NFL teams have on their o-line. We just cannot find a way to keep ours healthy. Ultimately, that falls back on the coaching. in my book.

I know but that doesn't mean they're great! Pouncey is money but the jury is out on the rest....

coldrolled
01-14-2013, 11:01 AM
This is the year to get the OT or OG in the 1st

Then the RB second... the rest Defense.

Then dump the old money guys and sign 2 FA players with talent.

We are in transition... **** the ravens changed OC mid season..

UKSTEELER
01-14-2013, 11:26 AM
the only dead certainty on this O'line is MoPo...

Rightly Colon and Starks should be shown the door, and Foster all though being a good back-up doesn't up root trees as a starter. Adams showed promise, Beachum showed promise to maybe have a crack at making the starting line-up at guard, and DeCastro obviously needs a healthy good camp to see the best from him - but with those 3 its all still lets wait and see. Gilbert is okay, decent in pass pro, but meek and mild in the run game.

It's hardly a line to get excited about. And no depth, because you can bet we will need it.

I'm not adverse to adding that bedrock Guard or franchise Tackle in round 1 - as the original post said, our line is poor compared to those on display in the playoffs.

LatrobePA
01-14-2013, 11:27 AM
This is the year to get the OT or OG in the 1st

Then the RB second... the rest Defense.

Then dump the old money guys and sign 2 FA players with talent.

We are in transition... **** the ravens changed OC mid season..

I can live with this..

Real Deal Steel
01-14-2013, 11:29 AM
You really think their going to use another first round pick on the O-line? I don't.

I think their going to go pass rushing LB or DT with the first pick.

connecticutsteel
01-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Adams-- Beachum-- Pouncey-- DeCastro-- Gilbert = Money if they can stay together and gel we will be in the top 5 in passing and rushing

cbrunn
01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
Do they still have Ryan Lee too ??? ... he could make a good Backup if anything

Real Deal Steel
01-14-2013, 12:33 PM
Adams-- Beachum-- Pouncey-- DeCastro-- Gilbert = Money if they can stay together and gel we will be in the top 5 in passing and rushing

IF.......we get the right O-line coach.

Crash
01-14-2013, 12:35 PM
Get this through your heads.

The Steelers will NEVER, repeat NEVER, have a top 5 passing team.

The front office simply won't allow it.

Nolrog
01-14-2013, 12:39 PM
This is the year to get the OT or OG in the 1st.

We got the OG in the first last year. It's been 5 years now since we've taken a non-lineman in the first round, and now our skill positions are lacking. We can get good value on the line later in the draft; heck Mike Webster was a 5th round selection.

Especially considering they have zero RBs under contract, one of their best WRs is likely to leave in FA and the starting TE will miss the beginning of the season, not to mention the fact that the D is a shell of its former self.

There are far more urgent needs than spending a 5th consecutive #1 pick (and 7th high round pick) on the line.

Get7With7
01-14-2013, 12:43 PM
Beachum SHOULD NOT be a starter if the Steelers are really serious about protecting Ben. He's a career backup at best.

"But he did okay in the last few games!!!!!!"

Yeah, and Jonathan Scott did okay in 2010. How'd he do in 2011?

jdehoff83
01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
I really hope they dont blow another first round pick on the line. Get a play maker on defense or offense the line is what it is... they cant stay healthy

Crash
01-14-2013, 01:00 PM
Beachum SHOULD NOT be a starter if the Steelers are really serious about protecting Ben. He's a career backup at best.

"But he did okay in the last few games!!!!!!"

Yeah, and Jonathan Scott did okay in 2010. How'd he do in 2011?

Beachum to me could be an awesome swing man. He can back up 4 spots.

But our staff has to realize that, and not make him be something he isn't.

jdehoff83
01-14-2013, 01:09 PM
We got the OG in the first last year. It's been 5 years now since we've taken a non-lineman in the first round, and now our skill positions are lacking. We can get good value on the line later in the draft; heck Mike Webster was a 5th round selection.

Especially considering they have zero RBs under contract, one of their best WRs is likely to leave in FA and the starting TE will miss the beginning of the season, not to mention the fact that the D is a shell of its former self.

There are far more urgent needs than spending a 5th consecutive #1 pick (and 7th high round pick) on the line.
This

coldrolled
01-14-2013, 01:12 PM
You really think their going to use another first round pick on the O-line? I don't.

I think their going to go pass rushing LB or DT with the first pick.

I think if warmack or an OT drop they pick them up...

I really like Ogletree. Fast, big, ILB slash OLB..

NeilPatrickBanana
01-14-2013, 01:13 PM
Get this through your heads.

The Steelers will NEVER, repeat NEVER, have a top 5 passing team.

The front office simply won't allow it.

dumb

Crash
01-14-2013, 01:21 PM
dumb

I agree, it's dumb.

But we're too obsessed with the run game and time of possession. Not enough concern with scoring points.

Dallas 50 yard line:

Run run pass.

Cincy 32 yard line:

Run run pass.

Steelers 46 yard line in the same game:

WR screen run run run Ben scramble.

Eight 1st and 2nd down plays on those three drives, the biggest two games of the year.

7 runs, 1 pass.

You can pay Charlie Batch $2 mil a year to do that.

Yesterday up 31-13 the Pats D forced a turnover.

Brady was throwing in the endzone.

The Steelers would run the ball three times.

Get7With7
01-14-2013, 01:29 PM
Yesterday up 31-13 the Pats D forced a turnover.

Brady was throwing in the endzone.

The Steelers would run the ball three times.

Unfortunately, this is true. The few times that the defense actually set up the offense with good field position was wasted because the Steelers were playing Marty ball. There was no killer instinct, no desire to go for the jugular. It was always about time of possession over points.

Only two teams in the NFL playoffs were in the top 5 in time of possession, Seattle and Houston. Both were eliminated on Sunday. Next season, the Steelers need to trade some possession time for points.

Stone
01-14-2013, 02:10 PM
A couple people on the O-line looked like they were playing blindfolded. Mike Adams in particular. Is he that stupid or was he being taught something that was foreign to him?

steelchamp204
01-14-2013, 03:17 PM
Get this through your heads.

The Steelers will NEVER, repeat NEVER, have a top 5 passing team.

The front office simply won't allow it.

Did I bring anything up about being a top 5 passing team, I am talking about the offensive line giving Ben protection. Im talking about a SOLID offensive line that can give Ben time when needed. Please, dont turn this thread into another Rooney bashing argument.

Stay on topic. Or leave.

Crash
01-14-2013, 03:28 PM
Did I bring anything up about being a top 5 passing team

You didn't but connsteel did below, and I quote:

Adams-- Beachum-- Pouncey-- DeCastro-- Gilbert = Money if they can stay together and gel we will be in the top 5 in passing and rushing

Then I responded, and I quote:

Get this through your heads.

The Steelers will NEVER, repeat NEVER, have a top 5 passing team.

The front office simply won't allow it

Pay attention.

DBR96A
01-14-2013, 03:42 PM
You didn't but connsteel did below, and I quote:

Adams-- Beachum-- Pouncey-- DeCastro-- Gilbert = Money if they can stay together and gel we will be in the top 5 in passing and rushing

Then I responded, and I quote:

Get this through your heads.

The Steelers will NEVER, repeat NEVER, have a top 5 passing team.

The front office simply won't allow it

Pay attention.

If you don't like the front office, then there are 31 other teams to choose from.

Crash
01-14-2013, 03:53 PM
If you don't like the front office, then there are 31 other teams to choose from.

I don't root for the front office. I don't pay money to watch Art Rooney II walk around in a suit.

For as big a Ben Roethlisberger fan as you claim to be, you should be agreeing with me on this.

The outdated way's of #7's bosses, hurt his play (and his team) more than defenses do.

steelchamp204
01-14-2013, 04:43 PM
I agree, it's dumb.

But we're too obsessed with the run game and time of possession. Not enough concern with scoring points.

Dallas 50 yard line:

Run run pass.

Cincy 32 yard line:

Run run pass.

Steelers 46 yard line in the same game:

WR screen run run run Ben scramble.

Eight 1st and 2nd down plays on those three drives, the biggest two games of the year.

7 runs, 1 pass.

You can pay Charlie Batch $2 mil a year to do that.

Yesterday up 31-13 the Pats D forced a turnover.

Brady was throwing in the endzone.

The Steelers would run the ball three times.

Example. Pay Attention. Start your own thread on plays the steelers run, this is about the offensive line, not playcalling.

coldrolled
01-14-2013, 04:48 PM
Ben crushes his own success by not getting rid of the ball quicker. then he gets hurt, sacked, int or something.
But then again he makes those miraculous plays. but do you win 4 qtrs of football and a SB with a bunch of miraculous plays?


Play action and move the chains..

Zachintosh66
01-14-2013, 04:54 PM
I know but that doesn't mean they're great! Pouncey is money but the jury is out on the rest....

Lets be real... Pouncey was only above average this year... not even close to pro-bowl/all-pro caliber. He has the tools to be great, but 2012 season was not one of his best.

Crash
01-14-2013, 05:03 PM
Ben crushes his own success by not getting rid of the ball quicker. then he gets hurt, sacked, int or something.
But then again he makes those miraculous plays. but do you win 4 qtrs of football and a SB with a bunch of miraculous plays?


Play action and move the chains..

Agreed. But we don't do that. We force the predictable run game, which hurts our offensive line because every defender knows we run up the middle all day, and then we ask Ben to bail them out on 3rd down.

JensK
01-14-2013, 05:20 PM
Agreed. But we don't do that. We force the predictable run game, which hurts our offensive line because every defender knows we run up the middle all day, and then we ask Ben to bail them out on 3rd down.

There is nothing wrong with a predictable run game if you have a good RB. Its a misconception that you have to be creative to run the ball well. That is not at all the case. Look at The Vikings. They are not trying to disguise what they are doing. Sure, they might run a couple of trap plays from time to time, but overall there is nothing fancy about their running game. They just have the line and RB to pull it off. We could potentially have the line if they stay healthy, but we sorely lack a difference maker at RB. If you have one of those, you can be as predictable as you like when running the ball - you'll get good yardage.

Another example is what the Texans do. Nothing fancy about that.

Crash
01-14-2013, 05:26 PM
There is nothing wrong with a predictable run game if you have a good RB. Its a misconception that you have to be creative to run the ball well. That is not at all the case. Look at The Vikings. They are not trying to disguise what they are doing. Sure, they might run a couple of trap plays from time to time, but overall there is nothing fancy about their running game. They just have the line and RB to pull it off. We could potentially have the line if they stay healthy, but we sorely lack a difference maker at RB. If you have one of those, you can be as predictable as you like when running the ball - you'll get good yardage.

Another example is what the Texans do. Nothing fancy about that.

And you know what else they don't have?

Lombardi's.

How good is Foster? Is it him? Or is it the Kubiak/Shanahan system?

Those two have been getting late rounders to produce for YEARS.

JensK
01-14-2013, 05:29 PM
And you know what else they don't have?

Lombardi's.

Your argument being what exactly? If anything, the last Lombardi trophy's is located at teams which were very ineffective running the ball during their campaign.

Crash
01-14-2013, 05:43 PM
Where were the Giants ranked in rushing last season?

The 2008 Steelers?

JensK
01-14-2013, 06:08 PM
Giants ranked dead last in rushing last season.

Steelers were 23rd in rushing in 2008.

Get7With7
01-14-2013, 06:21 PM
There is nothing wrong with a predictable run game if you have a good RB. Its a misconception that you have to be creative to run the ball well. That is not at all the case. Look at The Vikings. They are not trying to disguise what they are doing. Sure, they might run a couple of trap plays from time to time, but overall there is nothing fancy about their running game. They just have the line and RB to pull it off. We could potentially have the line if they stay healthy, but we sorely lack a difference maker at RB. If you have one of those, you can be as predictable as you like when running the ball - you'll get good yardage.

Another example is what the Texans do. Nothing fancy about that.

It is a problem when you stubbornly run up the middle for nothing and refuse to change the play calling. Teams are allowed to pass on first down too.

As for the Vikings and the Texans, what have they won?

Real Deal Steel
01-14-2013, 06:25 PM
Giants ranked dead last in rushing last season.

Steelers were 23rd in rushing in 2008.

But during the playoffs, the Giants ran the ball like champs.

Crash
01-14-2013, 06:27 PM
But during the playoffs, the Giants ran the ball like champs.

And we didn't in 2005 minus one Parker run in SB XL.

Real Deal Steel
01-14-2013, 06:29 PM
True.

JensK
01-14-2013, 06:43 PM
It is a problem when you stubbornly run up the middle for nothing and refuse to change the play calling. Teams are allowed to pass on first down too.

As for the Vikings and the Texans, what have they won?

first of all, the debate was not about who has won more championships. It was about effectively running the ball, and both of those teams are doing that. And both of those teams made the playoffs, which is more than we can say. Furthermore, Steelers did not have what you would call a great running game during any of our Superbowl appearances the last 10 years.

Sure, you can throw it on first down. And you do have to do other things than running up the middle. Steelers have done both. They have just not been very good at it. Also, it is hardly unpredictable to throw it on first down and run a couple of stretch plays from time to time.


But during the playoffs, the Giants ran the ball like champs.

This is true, however you have to reach the playoff before you can worry about it :)

steelcity73
01-14-2013, 08:17 PM
There is nothing wrong with a predictable run game if you have a good RB. Its a misconception that you have to be creative to run the ball well. That is not at all the case. Look at The Vikings. They are not trying to disguise what they are doing. Sure, they might run a couple of trap plays from time to time, but overall there is nothing fancy about their running game. They just have the line and RB to pull it off. We could potentially have the line if they stay healthy, but we sorely lack a difference maker at RB. If you have one of those, you can be as predictable as you like when running the ball - you'll get good yardage.

Another example is what the Texans do. Nothing fancy about that.

I agree with needing to have a solid RB, but even getting one we still need a healthy OL. Ben is never gonna be a pocket/timing QB, it's just not in his DNA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the offenses success ultimately start with the OL? Reading some of these posts just frustrates me when everyone is wanting to fire Haley/Tomlin, trade Ben, blame it on the WR's/RB's, but not having a stable OL is the root of this offense being ineffective, IMO. There is nothing wrong with being predictable at times, if you got the playmakers and the right game plan predictability shouldn't be a problem, with some wrinkles just to keep the D off balance. Also having a solid RB will eat up time on the clock, just don't agree with some of these posts saying we need to shift most of the emphasis on the offense, the Steelers will never be a "run and gun" high scoring offense, or lets say an offense that will go toe to toe with someone such as the patriots. I think it's unrealistic to expect this offense to be scoring 30+ a game, and if that's what's required for this new NFL then we as Steelers fans with Big Ben at the helm and no running game are in for a lot of frustrating sundays to come. This is just my opinion:cope:

LarryNJ
01-14-2013, 09:16 PM
I think it's unrealistic to expect this offense to be scoring 30+ a game, and if that's what's required for this new NFL then we as Steelers fans with Big Ben at the helm and no running game are in for a lot of frustrating sundays to come.

The losing teams this weekend had 28, 28, 31 & 35 points. Looks like they better get to 30+ points a game.

jdehoff83
01-14-2013, 09:37 PM
The texans need the run game to work otherwise they are screwed as other teams with more effective passing games can skate by if they have to. The steelers have a qb that is very capable of stepping up his game if the run game isnt there.... i know i know u need a pass and a run to do this and that yea i get it.. if the line is to blame for this season then we did pretty good with one that was crap

jdehoff83
01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
The losing teams this weekend had 28, 28, 31 & 35 points. Looks like they better get to 30+ points a game.
Well lets look at some of the poor play that took place ? How many times did a receiver get past a safety in the denver bmore game? And to tie it when the broncos should of shut it down for the w? The scores are high but i think the mistakes some of these players are making in the post season are to blame.. if you have a shut down defense 30 pts allowed should be few and far between

LarryNJ
01-14-2013, 10:19 PM
True but the Seahawks, Niners, Broncos & Falcons all had top 5 defenses in points allowed this year. They are about as good as it gets in today's NFL.

jdehoff83
01-15-2013, 10:07 AM
True but the Seahawks, Niners, Broncos & Falcons all had top 5 defenses in points allowed this year. They are about as good as it gets in today's NFL.
So is it safe to say that defenses fail against better quality offenses or is it safe to say that a better offense will take advantage of a defenses mistakes??

BlitzburghRockCity
01-15-2013, 03:39 PM
2x first round picks
2x second round picks

that is more "talent" than 90% of all NFL teams have on their o-line. We just cannot find a way to keep ours healthy. Ultimately, that falls back on the coaching. in my book.


I give Kugler credit for finding a way to get all of those guys to be so multi dimensional but I'm ready for a fresh start too. I really, really hope the team looks at conditioning during camp, OTA's, preseason, and regular season. I think that's a big part of the issue here with staying healthy. The players themselves need to take it upon themselves to stay in better shape too.

If Dwyer wants to be a starting RB, then he can't pull himself out of the game every few plays. Get your butt in there and run the damn ball.