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View Full Version : Why it's time to move on from Keisel and Hampton in 2012, Polamalu and Clark 2013



BlitzburghRockCity
01-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Been debating this one in my head off and on for awhile now, and I often get flamed for comparing the Steelers front office with that of the Patriots but this is another point where Pittsburgh needs to stop this endless love affair with veterans and replenish the stock on defense in particular.

They've invested 2 first round picks in Hood and Heyward in the last 5 years and a solid NT prospect in McLendon; Hood is a starter who's slightly above average IMO and used completely the wrong way. Heyward shows flashes whenever he gets a chance to play but that's rare. Why not cut ties with both Keisel and Hampton, and actually give way to the guys who are the future in Heyward and McLendon. Cut these guys while they are still productive so you aren't stuck holding the bag when they deteriorate like we saw with Farrior and Ward in 2011.

Keisel had a good year overall last season but Da Beard has has been around since 2002 and Heyward is waiting. Even if you aren't comfortable with the depth, then maybe you push Heyward ahead of Keisel or at least give them equal playing time. Perhaps you get a few more years of depth out of Da Beard and valuable experience for Cam?

There is no viable replacement for Polamalu and Clark right now, how much longer can they last? Can we really justify the lack of attention to this position over the years? Regardless of other needs on the team, Troy has only been able to play in all 16 games in a year, 5 times since he came into the league in 2003. In 2011, even if he played in 16 games he was often hurt and not as effective.

How much longer can Clark last, he's been around for 10 years now and while he's generally durable he's not going to last forever. He's still playing at a high level but so was Farrior a couple years before he really showed signs of wear and tear. If you wait until the last minute you'll be left holding the bag with inexperienced players who may not work out.

The time is now and at the end of 2013 to move on with a new regime; much like New England does. They have no allegiance to any veterans other than Tom Brady and maybe Vince Wilfork. They realize it's time to cut ties with players wile their still productive but clearly in the twilight of their career, rather than wait until it's too late and end up with a situation like Pittsburgh has been in recently with jettisoning old weight.

Is this just a situation where Tomlin inherited an old team and has to try and rebuild over time? Sure that's part of it, but poor day 2 drafting, old veterans who are still around, and overlooking the Safety spot in particular is coming back to bite them.

steelchamp204
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
Im ready to let go of Clark and Hampton/Keisel. Im ready to see Heyward play and Mclendon. Id like to see Troy play 1 more year to see if he can still be near the same guy he was if healthy.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
I disagree with Keisel... unless we are implementing an entirely new scheme up front.

I'd caution fans to be ready for a huge drop off in the play of our front 7 after Hampton and Keisel are removed.

Hood-McLendon-Heyward... I don't think ANY of those 3 are capable of anchoring Lebeau's scheme up front or executing the type of gap control necessary to make it successful.

It all starts up front... and that front 3 is completely inadequate for it's intended purpose

without a high quality D Line, a 3-4 defense can look REALLY bad....

Hood is garbage
McClendon is a gap penetrator, not a gap anchor
Heyward has shown almost nothing

It will never happen with Lebeau around... but it makes a lot of sense to transition to a 4-3.
Better fit for : Hood, McClendon, Heyward, Woodley, Timmons

JensK
01-09-2013, 01:28 PM
I have zero faith in Hood. He is just flat out terrible in what they are asking him to do. I don't really like McClendon either. As Mr. Banana said, he can rush the QB fine enough, but he is not the DT who'll take up 2-3 guys and make room for our LBs. Heyward, however, is amazing in my book. I know he has shown very little so far, but he has not really been given any chances either. He is by far the strongest of our current DEs. He gets plenty of push, but he sorely needs to see the field more. If for nothing else then for the coaches and fans to evaluate whether we actually have a future DE in him.

JollyRob68
01-09-2013, 01:47 PM
I disagree with Keisel... unless we are implementing an entirely new scheme up front.

I'd caution fans to be ready for a huge drop off in the play of our front 7 after Hampton and Keisel are removed.

Hood-McLendon-Heyward... I don't think ANY of those 3 are capable of anchoring Lebeau's scheme up front or executing the type of gap control necessary to make it successful.

It all starts up front... and that front 3 is completely inadequate for it's intended purpose

without a high quality D Line, a 3-4 defense can look REALLY bad....

Hood is garbage
McClendon is a gap penetrator, not a gap anchor
Heyward has shown almost nothing

It will never happen with Lebeau around... but it makes a lot of sense to transition to a 4-3.
Better fit for : Hood, McClendon, Heyward, Woodley, Timmons

Time to see Keith Butler's vision for this Defense. They have the young talent to get after teams.

JollyRob68
01-09-2013, 01:50 PM
I always see people saying not in LeBeau's Defense. It's Keith Butler's Time. With the aging high priced vets It's time to switch it up.

Goodfrom55
01-09-2013, 04:03 PM
I'll roll the dice and cut ties with Kiesel and Hampton this year. Steelers need to draft or bring in someone to push Hood though. Steelers 1st (2) picks this year have to be safety / OLB. These guys can get a taste and learn behiond Troy / Clark and Harrison / Woody. One more person needs to go and that is Larry Foote. Solid vs the run, but a LIABILITY in pass coverage.

Aaron Smith didn't exactly light up the scoreboard with stats; wasn't his defined role. He, along with all linemen are to occupy blockers, clog running lanes. Unfortunately nothing in their assignments involve pass rush.

Difference between Steelers D-Line and Texans D-Line is while both run a 3-4, the Front 3 for the Texans are preached to get penetration. How else does JJ Watts get 20.5 sacks?

NeilPatrickBanana
01-09-2013, 04:22 PM
Difference between Steelers D-Line and Texans D-Line is while both run a 3-4, the Front 3 for the Texans are preached to get penetration. How else does JJ Watts get 20.5 sacks?

There is almost nothing similar about the scheme Wade runs and the scheme Dick runs

K Train
01-09-2013, 05:03 PM
letting keisel go would be a huge mistake

NeilPatrickBanana
01-09-2013, 05:11 PM
letting keisel go would be a huge mistake

Agreed

K Train
01-09-2013, 05:21 PM
the dude does it all while hood does nothing....hood is far from slightly above average, letting evander go would be a much better move unless they plan on moving to a 43, then that man would be a beast

HUNT4SEVEN
01-09-2013, 05:32 PM
I think Kiesel deserves to be on the team, just in a back role IMO, but Heyward needs to be starting, the real solution to these problems are make the defensive schemes simpler so we can get rid of the vets and get more use out of our rookies...i'll be glad when DL retires.

Big T
01-09-2013, 06:22 PM
If its time for us to move on from anyone it's Hood. He's awful. There's a reason teams had so much success running to the right. Remember that first Cincy game? Their one TD drive was all runs right at Hood and he got mauled the entire time, knowing it was coming. The real solution would be for Heyward to start over Hood. The defense would immediately improve. Here's the DL snap counts for this season. Pretty pathetic that Hood got over 3 times as many snaps as Heyward.

http://i.imgur.com/oLV9r.jpg

jdehoff83
01-09-2013, 07:04 PM
Beard stays, ham bone and hood gone.. keep troy and clark until they can get somebody to replace them maybe couple years

LevonKirkland99
01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
They all played well this year, except Polamalu (injury)...this is definetly a tough choice. Keep Troy and Clark to teach new players the position?

Maybe Hampton and Keisel are done...

Nolrog
01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
Keisel still had a good year and isn't too expensive.

I thought it was time to move on from Casey Hampton last year. Nothing that happened this year made me convinced I was wrong.

Troy and Clark play well when they are in, but they are injured too often. That's the reason why I think we need a safety high in this year's draft. I think we'll get more than a year out of them though.

I think it's time to have a serious thought about Harrison though. His production isn't what it used to be and doesn't justify his salary anymore.

As for Hood, well, let me just say that I don't think we're getting first round value out of him.

Real Deal Steel
01-09-2013, 07:59 PM
At some point, youth has to served. We draft these guys and don't give them serious playing time for 2 years or more? And it's kind of caught up to us now. Bill Walsh used to say it's better to let a player go a year too early instead of a year too late.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-09-2013, 08:39 PM
At some point, youth has to served. We draft these guys and don't give them serious playing time for 2 years or more? And it's kind of caught up to us now. Bill Walsh used to say it's better to let a player go a year too early instead of a year too late.

if the youth sucks, stick with the talent

tburg68
01-09-2013, 10:38 PM
Hood sucks, plain and simple. He is consistently pushed 3 to 4 yards off the ball. If he stays, he must be moved to NT. Taamu and Heyward must be given more snaps. Kiesel was still the most consistent DL the Steelers have.

SuperSteelers
01-09-2013, 11:34 PM
Agreed

I disagree

SteelerCountry58
01-09-2013, 11:56 PM
Beard stays, ham bone and hood gone.. keep troy and clark until they can get somebody to replace them maybe couple years
Bingo! Keisel played his *** off this year. He earned the right to come back,whether it's
in a starting role or backing up. Everyone loves Heyward for some reason but I just don't
see it. If the team feels he needs more reps then put his *** in there and see what the
Buckeye boy can do. Hood,for as big and mean as he looks plays like a pussy most of
the time. He hasn't shown me squat. DE/DT needs to be addressed in the draft,hopefully
within the first couple picks we have. And that dude needs to make a impact and play
with a high motor and be relentless in his attack. No brainer that a hard hitting Safety
is a top priority too. Troy and Clarkie will have to do for now.

Real Deal Steel
01-10-2013, 12:56 AM
if the youth sucks, stick with the talent

Not if the talent is super worn down and 150 years old. This is ultimately a young man's game.

Real Deal Steel
01-10-2013, 12:59 AM
If we drafted bad and have no talent like some are saying, then we have to pay the price. Since Rooney doesn't believe in using free agency, you have to go down the drain and restock new talent. But the team's won/loss record must suffer in the meantime.

Mike Tomlin
01-10-2013, 02:12 AM
I feel we keep Keisel and Clark let Hampton go. All Kiesel and Clark has done is played at probowl levels for the last two years.

Stone
01-10-2013, 09:13 AM
This was a good read BRC and this is the type of speculation that keeps us fans going. As far as the high draft picks being thrown in because they were high draft picks I never follow that line of thinking. But we certainly need to see some attention being paid to certain positions.

As far as who to play and how, I like to see it this way. In the grand scheme of things, there are a mere handful of people who get paid huge amounts of money to be coaches in the most popular sport in the world. It's my guess that they probably know more about who and how to use players than most of us. Additionally, they see a million times more evidence than we do of a player's ability, drive, motivation, mechanics, footwork, concentration, focus, etc. so I'm not going to question why they play this guy over that guy, or how they play him.

That being said, Todd Haley should be bagging groceries:lol:

USMC607
01-10-2013, 10:20 AM
Ya the beard only led the team in QB hurries and was consistent all yr long. He has at least 1 good yr left in him...

If we get rid of anyone on the D-line get rid of Big Snack and let McLendon get a crack at the starting job cause in spot work he has been very solid.

And for the love of god please let this be the last chance for Ziggy Hood b4 we draft someone to replace him.

I wasn't fond of him when we drafted him and he has not shown me anything really that justifies us resigning him. I know were use to A.smith in that spot and its unfair to measure hood who has only started 1 whole season this yr, to one of the best 3-4 Defensive Ends in the history of the sport. But this kid has no motor. Something or Someone light a fire under this kids ***. No fire, No passion, Gives up on plays.

If Hood doesnt show anything nxt season Axe his *** too.

Real Deal Steel
01-10-2013, 10:31 AM
My patient has grown thin with Hood too. Hood better be a beast in camp.

And by any means necessary, Colon has to be gone. He just has to be. He's stealing money.

K Train
01-10-2013, 03:42 PM
My patient has grown thin with Hood too. Hood better be a beast in camp.

And by any means necessary, Colon has to be gone. He just has to be. He's stealing money.

all hood has done is beast in camp, hes a camp hero...every year its something different

Rookie year omg he uses his hands so well, like a 10 year vet

next year wow hood is taking the rookie pouncey to school in one on one drills

next year wow look at all the weight hood dropped at OUTER LIMIT SPORTS, he has worked so hard to drop fat and add muscle and improve his explosiveness


yawwwnnnnnnnnnn

Real Deal Steel
01-10-2013, 03:52 PM
Well, the excuse of him being "young" & "potential" has gotten him this far. But "potential" only last for so long. We are going to need to depend on him in a serious way this coming season. Sink or swim time for him.

USMC607
01-10-2013, 04:02 PM
Lol i remeber his vertical jump onto a stack of tires... they were like look at his explosiveness... lol then hes getting tossed around like a doll and getting no push... maybe if the opposition had an oline made of stacks of tires hell show us his explosion and jump over them....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

USMC607
01-10-2013, 04:15 PM
How bad do we gotta tank nxt yr to get clowney.... im guess 1st overall if he keeps it up...

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NeilPatrickBanana
01-10-2013, 04:18 PM
How bad do we gotta tank nxt yr to get clowney.... im guess 1st overall if he keeps it up...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

yup... Clowney is a sure thing for the #1 pick

USMC607
01-10-2013, 04:30 PM
The possibilities.... id love to get him...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

greg1964
01-10-2013, 06:41 PM
I would keep DaBread and replace Hood with Haywood

jdehoff83
01-11-2013, 11:42 AM
My patient has grown thin with Hood too. Hood better be a beast in camp.

And by any means necessary, Colon has to be gone. He just has to be. He's stealing money.
Agree tired of colon.. just put him out on trash day.

jdehoff83
01-11-2013, 11:46 AM
Lol i remeber his vertical jump onto a stack of tires... they were like look at his explosiveness... lol then hes getting tossed around like a doll and getting no push... maybe if the opposition had an oline made of stacks of tires hell show us his explosion and jump over them....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Maybe he lacks confidence out on the field or falls off from the intensity of game day compared to the practice setting.. you can look like a million bucks in a practice but youre tested during the games.. must be a huge disconnect with hood cuz the guy doesnt impress me at all

Big T
01-11-2013, 12:13 PM
I'd have no problem with Hood playing situationally on obvious passing downs to be a rusher from the middle, but he's absolutely putrid as a starting 5 tech.

USMC607
01-11-2013, 12:27 PM
Well he better find confidence then before he gets the axe as well.

NeilPatrickBanana
01-11-2013, 12:46 PM
I'd have no problem with Hood playing situationally on obvious passing downs to be a rusher from the middle, but he's absolutely putrid as a starting 5 tech.

I agree that Hood is a terrible 5 tech. The question is what does the coaching staff think? This D Staff has almost never taken a players starting job away. Lebeau is too much of a players coach. I can't think of any examples under Lebeau's current tour as DC, where a starter was lost his job while under contract. Clark Haggans kept a job well past the point of deserving it. William Gay is another example.

coldrolled
01-11-2013, 01:08 PM
I can't think of any examples under Lebeau's current tour as DC, where a starter was lost his job while under contract..

When your closing in on 80 a few years of talent evaluation is like a couple months our time..

LatrobePA
01-11-2013, 01:49 PM
No sacks = no turnovers! This team has to find some pass rushers!

Troyisabeast_43
01-12-2013, 07:51 AM
I agree that you gotta keep Keisel as well for at least one more season. I would cut Casey because I think he is done and it would free up some cap space. I would also keep Troy and Clark around one more season at least and focus on getting a young safety potentially in the 2nd round maybe even the 1st round. This is where we are going to find out how good both not only Tomlin but Colbert as well can work together and rebuild this team and especially this defense with young talent. Considering the horrible draft class that Kevin Colbert had this season if the Steelers have another year or two of 7-9 8-8 seasons and miss the playoffs and the draft classes are as bad as the one was this season the Steelers are going to need to strongly consider moving on from Colbert and going in a new direction. He has had great success and has been a vital part of this team getting to 3 Super Bowls and winning 2 of them he has not really got it done over the last few seasons in terms of improving this team through the draft and free agency as well. Colbert in my opinion needs to be on a shorter leash then people are saying...

TarlsQtr
01-12-2013, 08:44 AM
Colbert had a bad draft season?

Round 1: Decastro injured and missed almost the entire season.
Round 2: Adams showed signs of being really formidable, especially in run blocking. Injured and missed second half of season.
Round 3: Spence injured and missed entire season.
Round 4: Ta' amu ended up being a knucklehead but not really Colbert' s fault. He was never going to play this season anyway with Casey and McLendon ahead of him but I remember this entire board being ecstatic on draft day.

It will be two seasons before we kniw if the draft was a bust.

LevonKirkland99
01-12-2013, 01:29 PM
Why fl we keep all this old players? Damn it just cut Hampton NOW!

teeceemadison
01-14-2013, 08:44 AM
I'll roll the dice and cut ties with Kiesel and Hampton this year. Steelers need to draft or bring in someone to push Hood though. Steelers 1st (2) picks this year have to be safety / OLB. These guys can get a taste and learn behiond Troy / Clark and Harrison / Woody. One more person needs to go and that is Larry Foote. Solid vs the run, but a LIABILITY in pass coverage.

Aaron Smith didn't exactly light up the scoreboard with stats; wasn't his defined role. He, along with all linemen are to occupy blockers, clog running lanes. Unfortunately nothing in their assignments involve pass rush.

Difference between Steelers D-Line and Texans D-Line is while both run a 3-4, the Front 3 for the Texans are preached to get penetration. How else does JJ Watts get 20.5 sacks?

agreed on the penetration issue.....the few times we really did anything upfront this year came with penetration up the middle....im tired of watching linebackers play loop-the-loop around the ends and the qb steps up into the pocket for five seconds before dinking and dunking.....

i like mclendon, let him rush the passer dammit....

LatrobePA
01-14-2013, 09:10 AM
I think Wood, Troy, Harrison, Hampton, Ben all need to take a salary hit to help free cap space.

USMC607
01-14-2013, 09:51 AM
wood also needs to lose weight....