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DBR96A
12-31-2012, 05:15 AM
Ben Roethlisberger's 2012 season statistics normalized to 16 games.

Real Deal Steel
12-31-2012, 08:20 AM
Extrapolating numbers doesn't factor in strength of opponent or how one performs under must win pressures. We love Ben, don't want him to go anywhere. But he is just as responsible for bad play as anybody else on this team. It was Ben, and Ben alone who threw that late game pick in Dallas. It was Ben,and Ben alone who threw the late game pick against the Bengals. Sorry but that's the truth.

Steveo
12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
Extrapolating numbers doesn't factor in strength of opponent or how one performs under must win pressures. We love Ben, don't want him to go anywhere. But he is just as responsible for bad play as anybody else on this team. It was Ben, and Ben alone who threw that late game pick in Dallas. It was Ben,and Ben alone who threw the late game pick against the Bengals. Sorry but that's the truth.

Agreed

steelspikes
12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
Meaningless stats; what matters is scoring avg.

Go to:http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php/37130-Nine-Years-In-Ben-led-Offense-Stalled-in-Mediocrity

scudmissile29
12-31-2012, 08:53 AM
He played very well for this season, he had two stinkers when he had to play well, apart from that, Haley was good for him.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-31-2012, 08:59 AM
Extrapolating numbers doesn't factor in strength of opponent or how one performs under must win pressures. We love Ben, don't want him to go anywhere. But he is just as responsible for bad play as anybody else on this team. It was Ben, and Ben alone who threw that late game pick in Dallas. It was Ben,and Ben alone who threw the late game pick against the Bengals. Sorry but that's the truth.

Agreed

Nolrog
12-31-2012, 01:38 PM
Clearly we should get rid of him. Terminate his contract and kick him in the balls on the way out. That'll show him how much he sucks. (note, sarcasm.)

Goodfrom55
12-31-2012, 03:48 PM
He played very well for this season, he had two stinkers when he had to play well, apart from that, Haley was good for him.

Could not agree more. Like many things, the system is now in place so all Haley and Ben need to do is tweak it a little bit. Haley is on may people's dart board, but all in all, he met my expectations this year.

Ben definitelty crapped the bed vs Dallas and Cincy with a late pick in each game, but if the Steelers has any threat of a running game, Ben would not have to be Superman every week and his margin for error would not as tight.

Crash
12-31-2012, 05:01 PM
Haley sucks. If he wasn't a Rooney puppet the Cincy and Dallas games would have been long over before those picks were thrown.

The battle lines have been drawn:

Rooney/Haley

vs

Ben/Tomlin

We'll see what Art decides to do.

Tomlin's comments today sound like he wants Haley out.

If Art doesn't let him? I can see Tomlin walking, and Ben following him.

Lots of jobs open, Tomlin would get one in a week.

Cricker24
12-31-2012, 05:40 PM
Haley sucks. If he wasn't a Rooney puppet the Cincy and Dallas games would have been long over before those picks were thrown.

The battle lines have been drawn:

Rooney/Haley

vs

Ben/Tomlin

We'll see what Art decides to do.

Tomlin's comments today sound like he wants Haley out.

If Art doesn't let him? I can see Tomlin walking, and Ben following him.

Lots of jobs open, Tomlin would get one in a week.

That is absolutely ridiculous!! Tomlin and Ben are not going anywhere, and neither is Haley. Why do so many people think a new OC can just come in and in their first season with the team the offense won't have any growing pains? If you took any starting quarterback AND their back-up out for 3.5 games, you're in trouble. I really think Ben still hasn't completely healed, but he wants to help the team and so he came back. Did he come back too soon? Probably, but the season is over now and it's time to get healthy and focused on 2013. Anyone that seriously believes that Tomlin and Ben would walk away (which they can't because they are under contract), is completely fooling themselves. I don't normally care when people say stuff like this, but this was so ludicrous that I couldn't help myself.

Chris :tt02:

scudmissile29
12-31-2012, 06:03 PM
Haley sucks. If he wasn't a Rooney puppet the Cincy and Dallas games would have been long over before those picks were thrown.

The battle lines have been drawn:

Rooney/Haley

vs

Ben/Tomlin

We'll see what Art decides to do.

Tomlin's comments today sound like he wants Haley out.

If Art doesn't let him? I can see Tomlin walking, and Ben following him.

Lots of jobs open, Tomlin would get one in a week.

oh do shut up with your ****** rumours/superstitions.

idiot

Crash
12-31-2012, 06:45 PM
That is absolutely ridiculous!! Tomlin and Ben are not going anywhere, and neither is Haley. Why do so many people think a new OC can just come in and in their first season with the team the offense won't have any growing pains?

Because growing pains weren't the problem. Haley obsessing over the 26th ranked rushing game in key spots with a HOF QB behind center, was.

Goodfrom55
12-31-2012, 07:18 PM
I believe Haley was trying to establish balance and not be one dimensional. With an elite QB as Ben is, obviously the emphasis has to be on throwing the football. Again, any threat of a running game only opens up the passing game more and it also slows down the pass rush. Problem is steelers don't have the personnel to run anywhere but between the tackles with RB's who run a 4.8 40 yard dash. Not fooling anyone with that stuff. If not Mendenhall, then the Steelers need SOMEONE who can run inside as well as outside and force the defense to defend the pass while also having to defend the run sideline to sideline.

Goodfrom55
12-31-2012, 07:18 PM
that said, I don't agree with run run pass after a turnover. Should be going for the jugular at that point.

Get7With7
12-31-2012, 07:22 PM
that said, I don't agree with run run pass after a turnover. Should be going for the jugular at that point.

The problem is that would be "scoring too quickly."

TarlsQtr
12-31-2012, 08:15 PM
The problem is that would be "scoring too quickly."

Well, although I believe you score when you can there is something to say for a long, grinding drive in the 4th quarter. Cowher did that with the Bus very well.

LatrobePA
12-31-2012, 08:28 PM
Stats are for losers, which we are...

TarlsQtr
12-31-2012, 08:30 PM
Stats are for losers, which we are...

LOL, yeah I would agree. There is only one stat that matters this year, 8-8.

LatrobePA
12-31-2012, 08:33 PM
LOL, yeah I would agree. There is only one stat that matters this year, 8-8.

Right. He threw picks when we needed first downs and or TD's. Sorry gang, truth hurts!

Get7With7
12-31-2012, 08:44 PM
Well, although I believe you score when you can there is something to say for a long, grinding drive in the 4th quarter. Cowher did that with the Bus very well.

The problem is this season the Steelers did that the majority of the game, which meant if Ben didn't pull a miracle out of his *** the Steelers were screwed.

Crash
12-31-2012, 09:08 PM
Right. He threw picks when we needed first downs and or TD's. Sorry gang, truth hurts!

And we didn't need first downs or TDs when we ran twice from the Bengals 32?

And we didn't need first downs or TDs when we had WR screen, and then 3 Mendy runs from the Steelers 46?

Art II got what he wanted, Haley committed to the ground game.

He also sent us home.

Arians is the OC? We don't lose that game.

Sorry.

LatrobePA
12-31-2012, 09:37 PM
Our ground game was predictable..

TarlsQtr
12-31-2012, 10:37 PM
And we didn't need first downs or TDs when we ran twice from the Bengals 32?

And we didn't need first downs or TDs when we had WR screen, and then 3 Mendy runs from the Steelers 46?

Art II got what he wanted, Haley committed to the ground game.

He also sent us home.

Arians is the OC? We don't lose that game.

Sorry.

One problem. The facts do not support your premise.

This season, the Steelers actually ran a smaller percentage of the time than last season.

Speeed
12-31-2012, 11:26 PM
They just did it out of order. In a predictable fashion.


One problem. The facts do not support your premise.

This season, the Steelers actually ran a smaller percentage of the time than last season.

Get7With7
12-31-2012, 11:46 PM
Don't lean so much on run/pass ratio - it can be deceptive. How many of Ben's "throws" were bubble screens? The problem with the Haley offense in the first year was:

a) It was too predictable

b) There was too much emphasis on ball control and not enough emphasis on scoring

The idea behind the ball-control offense was that it would make an older defense better. That proved to be false, and it just took scoring opportunities away from the offense. Now that the defense will be forced to get younger next season, the Steelers no longer have the excuse of protecting an old defense.

TarlsQtr
01-01-2013, 01:33 AM
Don't lean so much on run/pass ratio - it can be deceptive. How many of Ben's "throws" were bubble screens? The problem with the Haley offense in the first year was:

a) It was too predictable

b) There was too much emphasis on ball control and not enough emphasis on scoring

The idea behind the ball-control offense was that it would make an older defense better. That proved to be false, and it just took scoring opportunities away from the offense. Now that the defense will be forced to get younger next season, the Steelers no longer have the excuse of protecting an old defense.

But I never commented regarding if the offense was too predictable(although the same criticism was made if BA). I responded directly to Crash' s assertion that Art II had Haley "commit to the ground game." This is demonstrably false. BA was also equally committed to the WR screen and the reason for going ball control has been articulated far more often as a method to protect Ben than the aging defense.

Get7With7
01-01-2013, 01:43 AM
But I never commented regarding if the offense was too predictable(although the same criticism was made if BA). I responded directly to Crash' s assertion that Art II had Haley "commit to the ground game." This is demonstrably false. BA was also equally committed to the WR screen and the reason for going ball control has been articulated far more often as a method to protect Ben than the aging defense.

Actually, Art himself said he wanted to see the Steelers commit to a better running game in the offseason. Being that it didn't always work out that well, Haley used bubble screens. Similar effect - Ben had to bail the team out on 3rd down.

As for protecting Ben, that doesn't do much good if he's not in the playoffs. That's playing scared. They took it to the extreme, which resulted in Ben having to pull magic out of his *** in the last 2 minutes or else the Steelers were screwed. They have to stop worrying about what "might" happen and go grab a game by its throat instead of playing Marty ball.

steelspikes
01-01-2013, 12:16 PM
Yeah, but he did that only when we had the lead!
Well, although I believe you score when you can there is something to say for a long, grinding drive in the 4th quarter. Cowher did that with the Bus very well.