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NeilPatrickBanana
12-24-2012, 03:54 PM
First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes **** happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

steelchamp204
12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes **** happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some **** for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

Crash
12-25-2012, 01:31 AM
If Peyton is elite, so is Ben.

Ben's won more, Ben's played better in the post season.

steelchamp204
12-25-2012, 03:09 AM
If Peyton is elite, so is Ben.

Ben's won more, Ben's played better in the post season.

I have a feeling Peyton is going to get his 2nd ring this year. He actually has a good defense behind him. Just saying.

Crash
12-25-2012, 03:17 AM
I have a feeling Peyton is going to get his 2nd ring this year. He actually has a good defense behind him. Just saying.

Peyton Manning had the #2 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2005.

He sucked against the Steelers for three quarters, lost.

Peyton Manning had the #1 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2007.

He sucked against the Chargers in the playoffs, lost.

Peyton Manning's lone SB ring he threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks in 4 games, carried by his run game and defense.

All he has on Ben? Is a 6 year head start to his career, and in those 6 years, he won exactly 2 playoff games.

steelchamp204
12-25-2012, 10:26 AM
Peyton Manning had the #2 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2005.

He sucked against the Steelers for three quarters, lost.

Peyton Manning had the #1 defense in the NFL in points allowed in 2007.

He sucked against the Chargers in the playoffs, lost.

Peyton Manning's lone SB ring he threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks in 4 games, carried by his run game and defense.

All he has on Ben? Is a 6 year head start to his career, and in those 6 years, he won exactly 2 playoff games.

Ben was never carried by a good defense throughout his career? Look at Bens first sb? The only thing that bailed him out in the 2nd SB was him and holmes which I do give Ben credit. Then when we played the Pack, our reality came true. With Ben having a mediocre performance again in the sb. 2 tds and 2 picks. You can say what you want about Peyton, atleast he is in the playoffs every year giving his team a chance.

Ben had the number 1 defense this season and couldnt even get into the playoffs, remember that. He had a chance to cash in when Charlie won that game in Bmore and never cashed in on it.

ChucktownSteeler
12-25-2012, 11:35 AM
What is elite?

Black@Gold Forever32
12-25-2012, 11:38 AM
Ben was never carried by a good defense throughout his career? Look at Bens first sb? The only thing that bailed him out in the 2nd SB was him and holmes which I do give Ben credit. Then when we played the Pack, our reality came true. With Ben having a mediocre performance again in the sb. 2 tds and 2 picks. You can say what you want about Peyton, atleast he is in the playoffs every year giving his team a chance.

Ben had the number 1 defense this season and couldnt even get into the playoffs, remember that. He had a chance to cash in when Charlie won that game in Bmore and never cashed in on it.

You mention Super Bowl XL but you don't look at the entire post-season that season and Ben was huge in those three play-off games which were the main reason the Steelers reached Super Bowl XL.....7 TD's and 1 INT in those three play-off games.....Plus Ben was in his 2nd year....

Ben's overall numbers in Super XLIII were not overwhelming but the Steelers also had 20-7 lead at one point in the game and the play calling reflected that.......Ben came out on fire in the first quarter of that Super Bowl.....When called upon at the end Ben delivered when needed most.....

Super Bowl XLV yea Ben did throw picks but one came from Kemoeatu getting manhandled and being pushed into Ben's throwing arm which led to that INT.....The 2nd one the Packers defensive player made a great play...It happens but despite all that Ben still gave the Steelers a chance at the end to win that Super Bowl.....Just wasn't in the cards.....

LevonKirkland99
12-25-2012, 11:48 AM
Why is everyone focusing on Ben , because Ben will be fine...what about the rest of the team, coaching...etc.

What this "elite" talk? Yinz starting to sound like Ravens fans talk about Flacco . is he elite? he throws for 4000 yards this year, so he is elite...he has an arm...:)

Calm down everyone...Ben will be fine

Crash
12-25-2012, 11:56 AM
Ben was never carried by a good defense throughout his career? Look at Bens first sb?

By all means, let's look at it:

Game #1: 14 of 19 for 208 yards and 3 TDs.

Game #2: 14 OF 24 for 197 yards, 2 TDs, 1 pick.

Game #3: 21 of 29 for 275 yards, 3 TDs.

Game #4: 9 of 23 for 123 yards, 2 picks.

He also added 2 rushing TDs.


The only thing that bailed him out in the 2nd SB was him and holmes which I do give Ben credit.

Bailed him out? So the way he started that game on their first two drives didn't happen either?


You can say what you want about Peyton, atleast he is in the playoffs every year giving his team a chance.

9 years in the league, Peyton Manning made the playoffs 7 times, seven playoff wins.

9 years in the league, Ben Roethlisberger made the playoffs 6 times, ten playoffs wins.

Who's better after 9 years. Who performed better in post season?


Ben had the number 1 defense this season and couldn't even get into the playoffs, remember that.

And the defense pissed away 4th quarter leads at Denver, at Oakland, and at Tennessee, remember that.

This defense looks great when the offense controls the clock. When they offense doesn't? Not so much.


He had a chance to cash in when Charlie won that game in Bmore and never cashed in on it.

So CHARLIE won the Ravens game but BEN is carried by the defense? That makes sense. If Harrison didn't sack Flacco we lose. The STORY of that game then would have been Batch missing a WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIDE open Mike Wallace in the endzone, and an absolute **** throw to Heath Miller in the end zone that was picked.

But I forget, Charlie's from Pittsburgh so he gets more credit than the eveil cretin from Ohio.

SuperSteelers
12-25-2012, 03:55 PM
I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some **** for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

This^

steelchamp204
12-25-2012, 04:06 PM
By all means, let's look at it:

Game #1: 14 of 19 for 208 yards and 3 TDs.

Game #2: 14 OF 24 for 197 yards, 2 TDs, 1 pick.

Game #3: 21 of 29 for 275 yards, 3 TDs.

Game #4: 9 of 23 for 123 yards, 2 picks.

He also added 2 rushing TDs.



Bailed him out? So the way he started that game on their first two drives didn't happen either?



9 years in the league, Peyton Manning made the playoffs 7 times, seven playoff wins.

9 years in the league, Ben Roethlisberger made the playoffs 6 times, ten playoffs wins.

Who's better after 9 years. Who performed better in post season?



And the defense pissed away 4th quarter leads at Denver, at Oakland, and at Tennessee, remember that.

This defense looks great when the offense controls the clock. When they offense doesn't? Not so much.



So CHARLIE won the Ravens game but BEN is carried by the defense? That makes sense. If Harrison didn't sack Flacco we lose. The STORY of that game then would have been Batch missing a WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIDE open Mike Wallace in the endzone, and an absolute **** throw to Heath Miller in the end zone that was picked.

But I forget, Charlie's from Pittsburgh so he gets more credit than the eveil cretin from Ohio.

Hey, I put my opinion out there. I dont think Ben is elite. That is my opinion and Im sure there are thousands upon thousands of steeler fans that think the same. As I am sure there are thousands upon thousands of steeler fans who think he is elite. Thats my take on him. All I know is that I wont be watching the steelers in the postseason this year when they had chance upon chance upon chance to get atleast a wildcard spot the last 3 weeks and didnt do so. Ben threw the game ending int that lead to the cowboys scoring 3 off it to win in overtime this season and he threw another int to the bengals which cashed in 3 points to win the game also. You can blame Haley all you want, the final decision maker is the QB. Also, the defense shouldnt be blamed for the Cinci loss anyway, they played there asses off all game to only give up 6 points.

Like I said, it is my opinion and Im not going to put up stats blah blah blah to change yours. Thats what your opinion is for.

Crash
12-25-2012, 09:27 PM
. ti.so, the defense shouldnt be blamed for the Cinci loss anyway, they played there asses off all game to only give up 6 points.

And Ben threw 4 TDs no picks and they lost to Oakland.

Funny how that game doesn't get mentioned.

steelchamp204
12-25-2012, 09:45 PM
And Ben threw 4 TDs no picks and they lost to Oakland.

Funny how that game doesn't get mentioned.

I think the defense played a lot better than the offense as a group this season. Sorry to **** in your cereal. You can say the offense had injuries, well the defense had inuries also this season. Just saying.

Crash
12-25-2012, 09:56 PM
The defense is overrated. They blow too many 4th quarter leads. When the offense keeps them off the field they look great. Always has been.

HUNT4SEVEN
12-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Ben is a TOP 5 QB the problem with Ben is that he needs yes people like Arians around him, and when he doesn't get his way he becomes a Diva plain and simple,up until the Kansas City game this year, Ben TD to INT rate was the best of his career, IMO the problem has been Todd Haley yelling at Ben when he throws an INT or take a sack unnecessary it's been happening since week one in Denver, and recently Ben making the statements he did after the Dallas game, so until something/someone gives we are gonna have to deal with this type of BS we have dealt with this year,this is a great time for Dan R to put his foot down and make some long over due change to get this ship righted...

Black@Gold Forever32
12-25-2012, 09:57 PM
I think the defense played a lot better than the offense as a group this season. Sorry to **** in your cereal. You can say the offense had injuries, well the defense had inuries also this season. Just saying.

The defense played better in the 2nd half of the season.......The offense was better in the first half.......Both the offense and defense sucked at times this year......The special teams well they're just special ed besides Suisham making field goals.....

Crash
12-25-2012, 10:01 PM
Haley hasn't hardly yelled at Ben during games at all. Simply not accurate.

The blowups just haven't been there. Sorry.

Crash
12-26-2012, 01:27 AM
Hey, I put my opinion out there. I dont think Ben is elite.

Then you can't think Peyton is elite if your opinion is to be taken seriously.

Sorry.

NYCsteelersfan
12-27-2012, 10:36 PM
I dont think Ben is elite. I think he is a pretty good QB. Im not hating on Ben or anything, not putting him down or whatnot. To me, he is a good qb. Not elite in my opinion. Ill get some **** for this, but it is only my opinion. If people think that he is elite, I wouldnt argue with that either.

Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

Big T
12-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

Crash
12-27-2012, 10:59 PM
What's insane is he doesn't get the respect he deserves from his HOME fan base.

Other than the usual suspects (Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincy) Ben is respected more OUTSIDE of Pittsburgh than he is in it.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 09:09 AM
Sometimes opinions don't make a lot of sense and are based on no factual evidence of any sort, which is why they are opinions in the first place.

Roethlisberger is ranked 9th all time in passer rating. Not a single quarterback on that list is a "fluke," and neither is Roethlisberger. He's elite whether you think so or not.

This entire thread is pretty idiotic. Neil doesn't want to admit that he's one of these ESPN highlight fans, and quite frankly, Roethlisberger doesn't make the highlight reel often because the Steelers offense is usually boring as f#%k. However, that doesn't change the fact that Roethlisberger plays nearly perfect in the system he's forced to play in, nor does that mean he wouldn't play nearly perfect in a system that is high-scoring if given the opportunity.

For someone to say that "he isn't an elite passer, but a riverboat gambler" is just dumb. It's not based on any stats. It's purely the personal opinion of someone who devalues a player's skills based on his lack of highlight footage.

There's some good "nugs of dumb" in here. I love your posts!

Stone
12-28-2012, 09:43 AM
First, let me affirm that I believe Ben is the best and most valuable player the steelers have had in 30+ years. And he is the singular reason, if there is such a thing, for this team going to 3 super bowls in a decade.

BUT

The thing we recognize in Ben's game, the thing that he has that puts him into that elite conversation... Is a blessing (why we were a 3 time super bowl team), and also a curse (the reason we are an inconsistent franchise that goes from super bowls to missing the post season.

Ben isn't elite like Brady/Peyton/Rodgers. He's not an elite passer. He is a riverboat gambler. And backyard baller. He makes **** happen where no one else could. But it's that style of play that leads to both the mighty highs and the epic lows.

I'm not a coach or an X's and O's guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ben's career has seen, what I believe to be, two limited OC's. Ben has skills which are unequaled by any other QB in the league............and the Steelers don't use them.

Ben has a strong arm, and he has an ability to keep his focus down field during duress, he also has the best escapability in the history of the game. So what do the Steelers do to take advantage of those skills.........not much!

If we had an offensive game plan which created mis-direction and mis-timing, Ben's skills would make him nearly unstoppable. As it is, we don't even balance a run-pass scheme, we get a run game going and go right back to the pass. We don't use screens and draws well to keep the defense honest. And we struggle with an O-line that has a new set of issues every year, there is no "pocket" and this leads to Ben scrambling rather than stepping up in to the pocket like it is supposed to work.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 09:49 AM
I'm not a coach or an X's and O's guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ben's career has seen, what I believe to be, two limited OC's. Ben has skills which are unequaled by any other QB in the league............and the Steelers don't use them.

Ben has a strong arm, and he has an ability to keep his focus down field during duress, he also has the best escapability in the history of the game. So what do the Steelers do to take advantage of those skills.........not much!

If we had an offensive game plan which created mis-direction and mis-timing, Ben's skills would make him nearly unstoppable. As it is, we don't even balance a run-pass scheme, we get a run game going and go right back to the pass. We don't use screens and draws well to keep the defense honest. And we struggle with an O-line that has a new set of issues every year, there is no "pocket" and this leads to Ben scrambling rather than stepping up in to the pocket like it is supposed to work.

I agree with most of what you said except his ability to keep focus down field.

I think ben is great too.

I am just able to be honest about him.

Stone
12-28-2012, 09:57 AM
I agree with most of what you said except his ability to keep focus down field.

I think ben is great too.

I am just able to be honest about him.

I really think that Ben's ability to keep focused down field is a huge plus for him. As opposed to the QB's who tuck and run creating excitement, and selling tickets, Ben's MO of staying put and looking for an open receiver is why he wins games.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 10:16 AM
Exactly. Ben was having the best season of his career up until KC. He gets hurt, comes back, and plays a few subpar games and now he's just good. It's insane how this man never gets the respect he deserves. He is an elite passer. He is an elite QB. He's just never been in a system like Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc that would allow him to put up the gaudy numbers the other elite QBs do.

It's amazing to me how anything said about Ben that isn't entirely positive and full of praise immediately implodes the readers ability to comprehend what was written

I said :
1. Ben is elite
2. Ben is the reason the Steelers are contenders at the beginning of every season

I also said:
1. Ben isn't the same type of franchise QB as Peyton, Brady, etc who relies on the traditional skills (passing abilities, Football IQ)
2. Ben's biggest strengths are also a contributing factor to this team's lack of consistency over the years


PS Ben would be a terrible fit in Green Bay's system. Do people actually think Ben would be good in a quick read, quick release west coast system??? Jesus Christ people :shakehead:

GB, New England, and New Orleans systems are about as different as any 3 systems in the NFL. Just assuming that Ben would be awesome in those systems is just plain dumb.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 10:21 AM
I really think that Ben's ability to keep focused down field is a huge plus for him. As opposed to the QB's who tuck and run creating excitement, and selling tickets, Ben's MO of staying put and looking for an open receiver is why he wins games.

I disagree. Ben does NOT keep his eyes downfield. His skill is that after breaking the pocket he is able to relocate his downfield options very well. But he does not stand in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. Ben gives up to quickly in the pocket. We accept it, because he makes even greater plays because of his "improvisation" skills.

I do think this is a common misinterpretation. Ben's ability to make plays downfield after breaking the rhythm is not the same as a pocket QB who keeps his eyes downfield.

Real Deal Steel
12-28-2012, 10:38 AM
What's insane is he doesn't get the respect he deserves from his HOME fan base.

Other than the usual suspects (Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincy) Ben is respected more OUTSIDE of Pittsburgh than he is in it.

This is total crap. Just because he's criticized doesn't mean the home fan base doesn't respect him. You sound like a child.
We have family members we harshly criticize. But we love them don't we??? Gzzzzz. Grow up.

Stone
12-28-2012, 10:59 AM
I disagree. Ben does NOT keep his eyes downfield. His skill is that after breaking the pocket he is able to relocate his downfield options very well. But he does not stand in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. Ben gives up to quickly in the pocket. We accept it, because he makes even greater plays because of his "improvisation" skills.

I do think this is a common misinterpretation. Ben's ability to make plays downfield after breaking the rhythm is not the same as a pocket QB who keeps his eyes downfield.

Gotcha....and your right about him breaking eye contact. But I'm not sure it's possible to maintain when Mike Adams and others allow their man to get at Ben untouched.....on a routine basis.

This is the point I made earlier. Our O line does not protect a "pocket" it is pure chaos upon the snap.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 11:03 AM
Gotcha....and your right about him breaking eye contact. But I'm not sure it's possible to maintain when Mike Adams and others allow their man to get at Ben untouched.....on a routine basis.

This is the point I made earlier. Our O line does not protect a "pocket" it is pure chaos upon the snap.

Same thing in Green Bay... but they have a quick read, quick release, pinpoint accurate QB. That's how GB/Rodgers deals with a bad Oline, and complete lack of a running game. Ben is different, he deals with it by being a monster who can't be brought down, and can create offense with his strength and "back yard" skills.

Which skill set would you prefer?

Stone
12-28-2012, 11:15 AM
Same thing in Green Bay... but they have a quick read, quick release, pinpoint accurate QB. That's how GB/Rodgers deals with a bad Oline, and complete lack of a running game. Ben is different, he deals with it by being a monster who can't be brought down, and can create offense with his strength and "back yard" skills.

Which skill set would you prefer?

Is this the chicken and egg issue? Does Ben resort to playground skills because he wants to? Or does he resort to this because our OC's haven't been able to develop a game plan which allows Ben to do the quick read, quick release, move the ball, offense? Especially, when you figure that we have a history, and some talent, at the running game.

To get the separation the WR's need, we need to make the defense unsure of whether to stick to the WR like glue, or to keep the run, draw, sweep, type plays in the back of their mind. We don't do that well.

Think about this.........if you were a defensive player and your ONLY job was to prevent the pass (no run responsibility) you could be very good at it..........we give our opponent that freedom because we have nothing in our offensive arsenal to keep them honest.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 11:25 AM
Yes, because he wants to. He's states it himself numerous times

Crash
12-28-2012, 12:02 PM
Same thing in Green Bay... but they have a quick read, quick release, pinpoint accurate QB. That's how GB/Rodgers deals with a bad Oline, and complete lack of a running game

In 2011 Ben was sacked 40 times in 512 official drop backs in 15 games.

In 2012 the "quick read, quick release, pinpoint accurate QB" Aaron Rodgers has been sacked 46 times in 513 official drop backs in 15 games.

Does Rodgers' game need "tweaked"? Maybe the Packers can find their own golf coach to hire next season.

Rodgers has always been pretty easy to sack, the only difference between he and Ben is they VALUE Rodgers more.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 02:50 PM
In 2011 Ben was sacked 40 times in 512 official drop backs in 15 games.

In 2012 the "quick read, quick release, pinpoint accurate QB" Aaron Rodgers has been sacked 46 times in 513 official drop backs in 15 games.

Does Rodgers' game need "tweaked"? Maybe the Packers can find their own golf coach to hire next season.

Rodgers has always been pretty easy to sack, the only difference between he and Ben is they VALUE Rodgers more.

I guess this makes sense in your brain

I mean the amount of "stupid" you've cobbled together in this world salad is truly remarkable

Crash
12-28-2012, 04:01 PM
I guess this makes sense in your brain

I mean the amount of "stupid" you've cobbled together in this world salad is truly remarkable

Translation: Crash just handed me my ***.

The whole notion that all Rodgers does is sit in the pocket and fire bullets all day is laughable. He plays just as much, if not more at times, "play ground football", than Ben does.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 04:14 PM
Translation: Crash just handed me my ***.

The whole notion that all Rodgers does is sit in the pocket and fire bullets all day is laughable. He plays just as much, if not more at times, "play ground football", than Ben does.

Yes, your ability to look up sack statistics was an Handing of the ***, the like of which we've never seen!

NYCsteelersfan
12-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Translation: Crash just handed me my ***.

The whole notion that all Rodgers does is sit in the pocket and fire bullets all day is laughable. He plays just as much, if not more at times, "play ground football", than Ben does.

That's exactly what you did. Hand his dumb *** to him. That's what most people on this forum do. They school his ESPN-sportscenter-regurgitating ***, and he fires back with what he thinks is a crafty insult. He's the quintessential "I'll attempt to conceal my stupidity with articulate sentences" kind of guy.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 05:05 PM
That's exactly what you did. Hand his dumb *** to him. That's what most people on this forum do. They school his ESPN-sportscenter-regurgitating ***, and he fires back with what he thinks is a crafty insult. He's the quintessential "I'll attempt to conceal my stupidity with articulate sentences" kind of guy.

I'm not surprised that you two would tie yourselves together.

You guys and your *** handing... so silly

NYCsteelersfan
12-28-2012, 05:27 PM
Why don't you man up and just admit you don't like Roethlisberger. Sure, you'll get hammered by people in this forum, but it's better than hiding your criticisms within BS compliments like the title of this thread. Stand up for what you believe and take the heat rather than making chicken $hit swipes like "Ben is an elite QB, but he isn't an elite passer." "He's incapable of quick reads and passes, and he doesn't have elite accuracy, but he's great at backyard football." Basically, you think Roethlisberger is a big doofy brute that can withstand hits and stay on his feet long enough to make a lucky throw. Your "compliment" is as insulting as just coming right out and saying that he isn't a good quarterback.

What I find interesting is that Backyard Boy has a higher career passer rating than Joe Montana, and his Cmp percentage, TD and INT percentages are all nearly identical to Montana's. Maybe Montana was just a backyard QB as well. Then again, those stats are all meaningless because ESPN's QBR is all that matters.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 05:40 PM
Why don't you man up and just admit you don't like Roethlisberger. Sure, you'll get hammered by people in this forum, but it's better than hiding your criticisms within BS compliments like the title of this thread. Stand up for what you believe and take the heat rather than making chicken $hit swipes like "Ben is an elite QB, but he isn't an elite passer." "He's incapable of quick reads and passes, and he doesn't have elite accuracy, but he's great at backyard football." Basically, you think Roethlisberger is a big doofy brute that can withstand hits and stay on his feet long enough to make a lucky throw. Your "compliment" is as insulting as just coming right out and saying that he isn't a good quarterback.

What I find interesting is that Backyard Boy has a higher career passer rating than Joe Montana, and his Cmp%, TD% and INT% are all nearly identical to Montana's. Maybe Montana was just a backyard QB as well. Then again, those stats are all meaningless because ESPN's QBR is all that matters.

But I do like Roethlisberger. Can I man up and like Roethlisberger? I really want to man up.

I just happen to like football more than I desire to be a homer.

Manning up (teehee) would be accepting that being an "elite QB" and being an "elite passer" are not the same thing. And that Big Ben is the former, while not being the later. That doesn't mean he isn't a darn good passer... he simply does not have the skills that elite passers do. and many elite passers don't have the skills he has.

Your description of what you think my belief of Big Ben is way off. I think he can make a ton of excellent throws. That 3rd down bullet on a 12 yard comeback/dig to Wallace on the sideline last week (just as an example). But an 18 yard, over the CB, underneath the help, thrown before the break, to the outside shoulder... not really in his repertoire.

I don't think he's incapable of making quick reads. Of course he's capable, it's just not his greatest strength. He definitely does not have elite accuracy. I mean... do you watch other QBs play? Do you really think that Ben has the same across the spectrum accuracy as the other elites?

Do you think QBR is a bad statistic?
Did you know that the Team whose QB has the higher QBR wins the game 86% of the time? QBR is a better win predictor than Total Yards, Turnover Differential, and Passer Rating. (that's a fact by the way... before you waste time arguing it)
Passer rating is a poor statistic because it has no context... it's raw.

I think Ben is a Hall of Famer. It's nice that you can compare him to a QB of a different generation. How does he compare to Peyton, Brady, Rodgers? Did you purposely avoid that comparison?

Crash
12-28-2012, 05:50 PM
Well, how "elite" is Brady then? Ever since 2007 when they increased his work load, AND his camera's got taken away guess what?

No rings.

Peyton? One of the biggest playoff chokers of all time. For as much grief as Ben gets for his SB XL many of the same people who want to forget Ben's three prior playoff games that year, also forget that Peyton in the LONE year he won his ring, threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks.

Rodgers? If he looses in the first round again guess what? That's 4 of 5 years as a starter with no playoff wins in it. Ben on the other hand, won 10 playoff games in his first 5 seasons.

Ben won't light up fantasy boards because when we get leads in the second half? We run the ball to satisfy ownership.

NYCsteelersfan
12-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Did you know that the Team whose QB has the higher QBR wins the game 86% of the time? QBR is a better win predictor than Total Yards, Turnover Differential, and Passer Rating. (that's a fact by the way... before you waste time arguing it)
Passer rating is a poor statistic because it has no context... it's raw.

Did Stephen A Smith and Trent Dilfer make you say that before or after you took their loads on your face. Go on an ESPN forum and peddle your fake facts there. The "context" of QBR is subjective. The stat is the equivalent of you proclaiming that Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger. It's not based on any factual evidence, and it's utterly moronic.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Well, how "elite" is Brady then? Ever since 2007 when they increased his work load, AND his camera's got taken away guess what?

No rings.

Peyton? One of the biggest playoff chokers of all time. For as much grief as Ben gets for his SB XL many of the same people who want to forget Ben's three prior playoff games that year, also forget that Peyton in the LONE year he won his ring, threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks.

Rodgers? If he looses in the first round again guess what? That's 4 of 5 years as a starter with no playoff wins in it. Ben on the other hand, won 10 playoff games in his first 5 seasons.

Ben won't light up fantasy boards because when we get leads in the second half? We run the ball to satisfy ownership.

If Post Season/Super Bowls is the only factor in the "elite' label, then Ben is right there... the cream of the crop.

Some of us, also like to analyze the actual abilities of these players

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 06:02 PM
Did Stephen A Smith and Trent Dilfer make you say that before or after you took their loads on your face. Go on an ESPN forum and peddle your fake facts there. The "context" of QBR is subjective. The stat is the equivalent of you proclaiming that Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger. It's not based on any factual evidence, and it's utterly moronic.

So the 86 percent thing is a fluke? Amazing how something made up of no factual evidence could be such an amazing predictor of success.

I'm also not sure you know what "subjective" means... or you don't know what makes up QBR.

Hey, if you like stats, and hate espn. I recommend profootballfocus.com. It has great statistics like WPA and DVOA. You'd probably hate them!

Your denial is most entertaining and appreciated

Question : What do you hate more, ESPN or African-Americans?

NYCsteelersfan
12-28-2012, 06:15 PM
So the 86 percent thing is a fluke? Amazing how something made up of no factual evidence could be such an amazing predictor of success.

I'm also not sure you know what "subjective" means... or you don't know what makes up QBR.

Hey, if you like stats, and hate espn. I recommend profootballfocus.com. It has great statistics like WPA and DVOA. You'd probably hate them!

Your denial is most entertaining and appreciated

Question : What do you hate more, ESPN or African-Americans?

86% of the time is not a fact. 2+2=4 100% of the time, not 86% of the time. And to answer your last question, I hate the one whose d#%k you suck more. So? Which one do you suck more? ESPN or African Americans?

NYCsteelersfan
12-28-2012, 06:17 PM
Advance apology to the mods.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-28-2012, 06:38 PM
86% of the time is not a fact. 2+2=4 100% of the time, not 86% of the time. And to answer your last question, I hate the one whose d#%k you suck more. So? Which one do you suck more? ESPN or African Americans?

I thought crash was the retard, and you were the racist. I had no idea that you were retarded too.

Apologies