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Stone
12-22-2012, 07:56 PM
So Haley is an offensive genius? He only knock is that he is a hothead? Bull ****!

Dwyer has earned the right to carry the ball yet Haley calls pass plays 3 to 1.

If Redman is in the game he is getting the ball.

Have we seen creative plays when the games were on the line?

Have we seen anything that says genius?

And you can tell by their demeanor on the sidelines that he and Ben both know Haley is Ben's bitch.

We haven't seen genius or hothead!

LatrobePA
12-22-2012, 08:39 PM
Got to agree! Rankings from last year vs this year.. Not too good!

Crash
12-22-2012, 08:59 PM
The scoring rank is misleading when the defense does not force turnovers. Every drive they score on is 75-80 yards, simply takes too much time. And we also don't go for quick scores also. That hurts them.

Too worried about chewing clock and not scoring points.

Get7With7
12-22-2012, 09:39 PM
Too worried about chewing clock and not scoring points.

a.k.a. - Playing not to lose

LevonKirkland99
12-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Give him a chance..unless you want BA back

Speeed
12-22-2012, 09:43 PM
Good point. Why chew the clock when the trend has been for the other team has been to score quickly after the Steelers kick a field goal for 3? Especially when the D is not forcing turnovers. This game plan seems oddly asymmetrical. The record reflects his.


The scoring rank is misleading when the defense does not force turnovers. Every drive they score on is 75-80 yards, simply takes too much time. And we also don't go for quick scores also. That hurts them.

Too worried about chewing clock and not scoring points.

Get7With7
12-22-2012, 09:52 PM
Good point. Why chew the clock when the trend has been for the other team has been to score quickly after the Steelers kick a field goal for 3? Especially when the D is not forcing turnovers. This game plan seems oddly asymmetrical. The record reflects his.

Because Coach Art is enamored with an outdated style of football. Today's NFL is no longer about TOP, it's about quick scores.

They play scared on both sides of the ball. On defense, they don't go for INTs because they are scared about giving up a big play if the DBs mistime the pick. On offense, they're worried that Ben will get hurt (which he already did), and they still think scoring quickly is a bad thing.

When you play scared, close to the vest football, you won't be much better than 8-8.

Crash
12-22-2012, 10:23 PM
Good point. Why chew the clock when the trend has been for the other team has been to score quickly after the Steelers kick a field goal for 3? Especially when the D is not forcing turnovers. This game plan seems oddly asymmetrical. The record reflects his.

Because at some point you are going to have to attack a defense. Chewing clock is one thing, chewing clock at the expense of points is inexcusable.

elephantman
12-22-2012, 10:40 PM
maybe the players suck after all and Haley and B.A have done great

Get7With7
12-22-2012, 10:44 PM
maybe the players suck after all and Haley and B.A have done great

Or maybe the problem is an owner enamored with an outdated style of football.

To sum it all up - this team plays scared. The offense is worried that scoring fast will result in the defense being more tired, which will lead to a shootout. They're scared that Ben will get hurt. Scared, scared, scared. The Steelers used to be a team that grabbed a game by the throat, now they just play not to lose.

LatrobePA
12-22-2012, 11:35 PM
Give him a chance..unless you want BA back

BA is in the running for coach of the year! lol

LevonKirkland99
12-22-2012, 11:46 PM
BA is in the running for coach of the year! lol

But you guys hated him and wanted him out last year!

LatrobePA
12-22-2012, 11:47 PM
But you guys hated him and wanted him out last year!

I still do but where did that (him this year) come from??

connecticutsteel
12-23-2012, 12:24 AM
so lemme see here now arians is god and the rooney's suddenly forgot how to run a team that's funny

Stone
12-23-2012, 07:51 AM
Or maybe the problem is an owner enamored with an outdated style of football.

To sum it all up - this team plays scared. The offense is worried that scoring fast will result in the defense being more tired, which will lead to a shootout. They're scared that Ben will get hurt. Scared, scared, scared. The Steelers used to be a team that grabbed a game by the throat, now they just play not to lose.

The Rooneys success has come from "not" interfering. There is not a chance in hell you could convince me that Art or Dan are coaching from above. And I grantee you that the Rooneys are not making this team passive.

LatrobePA
12-23-2012, 09:26 AM
so lemme see here now arians is god and the rooney's suddenly forgot how to run a team that's funny

I love how you fn idiots take **** and twist it all around! lol

gtadroptop
12-23-2012, 09:26 AM
The Rooneys success has come from "not" interfering. There is not a chance in hell you could convince me that Art or Dan are coaching from above. And I grantee you that the Rooneys are not making this team passive.

:clap:

Owners like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder do their teams more harm than good. Stay out of the way and let your coaches do their job. If they screw it up, get new coaches. The only flaw that the Rooneys have is loyalty to their Head Coach.

Nolrog
12-23-2012, 10:07 AM
So Haley is an offensive genius? He only knock is that he is a hothead? Bull ****!

Funny, until he got injured, people were saying Ben was having his best season ever, and was an MVP candidate. Think that was because of the special teams coach?

Stone
12-23-2012, 11:01 AM
Funny, until he got injured, people were saying Ben was having his best season ever, and was an MVP candidate. Think that was because of the special teams coach?

So Ben's success is due to Haley?

Let's pretend for just a second that, maybe, just maybe, Ben is that good and look at Haley for what Haley has done.

1. Have you heard one commentator talk about the incredible offensive play calling?

2. Have you heard one commentator talk about the incredible offensive scheme?

3. Have you seen balance in our run/pass attack?

4. Have you seen our offense click two weeks in a row?

5. How many plays have you seen this year that were "unique"?

6. How many plays this year made you jump up and say "holy **** that was an incredibly designed play?"

7. The success we've had on offense this year have been due to Ben and not the scheme.

Offensive genius my ***!

LatrobePA
12-23-2012, 11:02 AM
The problem is this team cannot close out teams! Lack of a true running game is killing us!

Stone
12-23-2012, 11:07 AM
The problem is this team cannot close out teams! Lack of a true running game is killing us!

That and a lot of our offense is predictable, like I said, if Redman is in the game, he is getting the ball (surprise!)

scudmissile29
12-23-2012, 11:16 AM
So Haley is an offensive genius? He only knock is that he is a hothead? Bull ****!

Dwyer has earned the right to carry the ball yet Haley calls pass plays 3 to 1.

If Redman is in the game he is getting the ball.

Have we seen creative plays when the games were on the line?

Have we seen anything that says genius?

And you can tell by their demeanor on the sidelines that he and Ben both know Haley is Ben's bitch.

We haven't seen genius or hothead!

Oh do shut up.

Like you think first year results would present a top 5 offense.

****ing idiot.

Sick and tired of haley bashing.

jpele
12-23-2012, 11:30 AM
Or maybe the problem is an owner enamored with an outdated style of football.

.

Guess people don't really watch the games, we've passed the ball 523 times compared to 353 rushing attempts. Art II never said he wanted to go back to smash mouth football, he said he wants the Steelers to run the ball more effectively.

Unlike Jerry Jones you won't see Art demanding certain plays to be called.

Get7With7
12-23-2012, 12:05 PM
The Rooneys success has come from "not" interfering. There is not a chance in hell you could convince me that Art or Dan are coaching from above. And I grantee you that the Rooneys are not making this team passive.

Ah, careful now. Dan may never have interfered, but there's evidence to suggest Art does. Lets not give Art praise just because he has the same last name as his father.

Perhaps I should be more clear when I say "outdated football." Obviously, the Steelers aren't playing 70's yinzer smashmouth. By "outdated" I mean they are overly concerned with time of possession rather than focused on scoring. They've taken points away from themselves because they fear the defense will be tired or they're scared that they could get into a shootout.

SuperSteelers
12-23-2012, 12:14 PM
So Haley is an offensive genius? He only knock is that he is a hothead? Bull ****!

Dwyer has earned the right to carry the ball yet Haley calls pass plays 3 to 1.

If Redman is in the game he is getting the ball.

Have we seen creative plays when the games were on the line?

Have we seen anything that says genius?

And you can tell by their demeanor on the sidelines that he and Ben both know Haley is Ben's bitch.

We haven't seen genius or hothead!

Sometimes you just don't have the personnel to run the ball. The o-line is decimated and have rookies playing so there is a learning curve which takes time to play out. We have RBs that fumble every other series and get hurt from an arm tackle. It's not that he doesn't want to run the ball but more of they can't run the ball.

Goodfrom55
12-23-2012, 12:36 PM
That and a lot of our offense is predictable, like I said, if Redman is in the game, he is getting the ball (surprise!)

More than that, unless Mendenhall is playing, almost 100 percent of all runs go between the tackles. Redman and Dwyer don't have the speed to take a toss and Rainey is too small. Holes will open up if you force a defense to defend the entire field in the running game vs between the hashes where the Steelers currently execute the majority of their running game.

They have to find a way to open it up a little bit and become less predictable running the ball.

coldrolled
12-23-2012, 08:59 PM
So Ben's success is due to Haley?

7. The success we've had on offense this year have been due to Ben and not the scheme.

Offensive genius my ***!

Is the offense always because of Ben, it looks the same... Ben is the OC.... Hes in full control???

Forged in Steel
12-23-2012, 09:18 PM
Haley:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqnQwKAI4OE

steelcity73
12-23-2012, 10:36 PM
The Rooneys success has come from "not" interfering. There is not a chance in hell you could convince me that Art or Dan are coaching from above. And I grantee you that the Rooneys are not making this team passive.

Yeah the Rooneys may be playing and outdated style of football, but you just don't change the identity of a franchise with such success over night. Maybe that's what the hiring of Haley is an attempt to catch up with the high scoring league the NFL has become. Don't get me wrong I like to see deep passes to Wallace or AB or a 20 yarder to Heath, but watching Troy slice thru the line and IMO nearly beating the ball to dalton was just as fun. It's most definitely an offense friendly league this day and age, and expecting a new OC to come in and lead us to a good post season run was a good possibility, but it just wasn't in the cards. Just need to put this in the books as a re-building year and it was painful to watch!

Crash
12-23-2012, 10:44 PM
The Rooneys success has come from "not" interfering. There is not a chance in hell you could convince me that Art or Dan are coaching from above. And I grantee you that the Rooneys are not making this team passive.

Art fired Arians.

Crash
12-23-2012, 10:46 PM
Dan also interfered in 1988 and ordered Noll to demote Dungy, who later quit.

Steeldriven
12-23-2012, 11:05 PM
The scoring rank is misleading when the defense does not force turnovers. Every drive they score on is 75-80 yards, simply takes too much time. And we also don't go for quick scores also. That hurts them.

Too worried about chewing clock and not scoring points.


They were way too worried about clock management imo...put your foot on the gas and don't look back until your up by 21...play to your strengths and use the pass to set up the run...other than a few flashes this year the running game was ****...time to start reloading.

Nolrog
12-24-2012, 08:30 AM
Or maybe the problem is an owner enamored with an outdated style of football.


That style of football will never be outdated. It's not currently in favor, but that doesn't make it any less effective. Strong defense and an effective running game is always a solid strategy.

steelchamp204
12-24-2012, 11:14 AM
The best offense is HAVING A STRONG RUNNING GAME AND DEFENSE. Holy ****. If you can run the ball they way we used to. It would.

A. Keep the opposing offense off the field longer
B. Give our Defense more time to take a breather
C. Let the best game "manager" in Ben to make some plays
D. Open up the PA pass with Wallace/Brown/Sanders

You can think what you want, I would rather be run,run pass like yesterday. Its just our Oline is to banged up right now. When Adams comes back healthy the run game will improve.

Crash
12-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Ben was never a game manager to those who watch him.

YESTERDAY, was what a game manager looks like.

Stone
12-24-2012, 06:14 PM
The original poster is A GENIUS!:lol: Haley's offense has been vanilla.....not even vanilla bean!

All during this season I found myself saying "would this be the down to go for the bomb to Wallace"? and then answering myself "no, cause if it doesn't connect, we are screwed cause we have no game plan for what we're left with".

Offensive genius my ***!

steelchamp204
12-24-2012, 07:58 PM
Ben was never a game manager to those who watch him.

YESTERDAY, was what a game manager looks like.

Ben in his early days was just a game "manager" He would only throw about 15-23 times a game. That is managing a game.

Crash
12-25-2012, 12:27 AM
Ben in his early days was just a game "manager" He would only throw about 15-23 times a game. That is managing a game.

But when most of the work is done in the first half, and then you chew clock after getting the lead, what was the focal point? Run or pass?

You also have to remember that Ben in his first two seasons averaged 8.9 yards per attempt. Not going to pile up a ton of passing attempts when you aren't throwing short.

Crash
12-25-2012, 01:27 AM
On 3rd and 8 before Suisham's miss Gary Player had Mike Wallace run a 5 yard route, and DAVID PAULSON running deep.

"Genius"

Crash
12-25-2012, 11:54 AM
A Crash Quiz: Which column is better below:

1. 16 games: 226 of 361 (62 percent) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

or

2. 18 games: 324 of 510 (63 percent) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs

I'll be back with the answer later.........

Crash
12-26-2012, 12:00 AM
You can think what you want, I would rather be run,run pass like yesterday.

Then Ben's last game for this team is Sunday.

You can't pay a QB $15 million to be a passenger instead of the pilot.

Only in friggin' Pittsburgh.

HUNT4SEVEN
12-26-2012, 01:51 AM
This season has been full of injuries,Diva attitudes, and bad game planning on both sides of the ball, Hopefully with the return of Dan he can get this ship righted...

Clevelandsux
12-26-2012, 03:31 AM
Then Ben's last game for this team is Sunday.

You can't pay a QB $15 million to be a passenger instead of the pilot.

Only in friggin' Pittsburgh. dude give it up. Ben isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise.

Nolrog
12-26-2012, 09:04 AM
dude give it up. Ben isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise.

Don't worry Crash, I got your point.

Crash
12-26-2012, 11:19 AM
dude give it up. Ben isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise.

No he isn't. Art Rooney II thinks HE'S the franchise.

Which is why this team are where they are at.

Can't be bigger than a Rooney. No way.

Get7With7
12-26-2012, 11:38 AM
The best offense is HAVING A STRONG RUNNING GAME AND DEFENSE. Holy ****. If you can run the ball they way we used to. It would.

A. Keep the opposing offense off the field longer
B. Give our Defense more time to take a breather
C. Let the best game "manager" in Ben to make some plays
D. Open up the PA pass with Wallace/Brown/Sanders

You can think what you want, I would rather be run,run pass like yesterday. Its just our Oline is to banged up right now. When Adams comes back healthy the run game will improve.

There are some flaws in this reasoning:

A. Over time it has shown it doesn't matter. Teams that want to score fast will regardless of how long the Steelers have possessed the ball.

B. This defense has shown it can blow a lead even when the offense owns time of possession.

C. Then don't bitch when he can't bail the team out every time. When you handcuff him on 1st and 2nd downs, he won't always be able to bail you out on 3rd down. When you handcuff him for the first 58 minutes of a game, he won't always be able to win it in the last 2. Ben needs to do more earlier in the game.

D. That wasn't the case this year. They hardly ever took shots because they were scared Ben would get hurt or scared that they wouldn't possess the ball as long if they scored too quickly.

The Steelers are no longer built to be the team yinzer nation wants them to be. Instead of fearing the quick strike teams, the Steelers need to become one.

Crash
12-26-2012, 11:42 AM
He wants C., then he says he wants D. as well.

D. can't happen if he wants C.

And like I said, Ben was never a game manager. The only people who think he was were people who don't watch him.

Crash
12-26-2012, 11:43 AM
B. Give our Defense more time to take a breather

So being in the top 5 in TOP isn't good enough? If this defense constantly needs their rest, why are they getting all of the big money on this team while Ben's WR #1-#2 combo's are forever changing?

If Ben is here next season that's 7 different combinations in 10 seasons.

strummerfan
12-26-2012, 01:08 PM
Give him a chance..unless you want BA back


Funny the Falcons didn't skip a beat after changing OC's in 2012. The Colts went from 2-14 to the playoffs under Arians. The Bengals changed in 2011 and went to the playoffs the next two years. The broncos didn't change OC's, but certainly changed their offense(teblow to Manning) and they are up there with the best in the league. Packers, new OC, new tendencies same results. Patriots new OC same results.However, the supposed messiah that has had ONE FREAKING WINNING RECORD as an OC needs time.

K Train
12-26-2012, 01:12 PM
ridiculous comments here....really hurts my brain to read some of them. its not just the OC, its retarded to think that it is or that we would have been better off behind arians

Get7With7
12-26-2012, 01:41 PM
ridiculous comments here....really hurts my brain to read some of them. its not just the OC, its retarded to think that it is or that we would have been better off behind arians

The Steelers had three 12-4 seasons from Arians out of his five years as OC, and no losing seasons. And when you look at what Arians is doing in Indy WITH LESS TALENT, he blows Haley away.

K Train
12-26-2012, 01:47 PM
such a small sample size, arians cost the steelers some big games with his inability to call plays as anything but a moron.

He was always a good QB coach...always, and that hasnt changed....he just happens to have the most talented rookie QB in probably like 12 years so it was a good fit for him. Super talent young QB mixed with a defense that gives up a ton of points and no running game whatsoever, you couldnt script a team more suited for arians style than the colts right now

Get7With7
12-26-2012, 01:50 PM
such a small sample size, arians cost the steelers some big games with his inability to call plays as anything but a moron.

He was always a good QB coach...always, and that hasnt changed....he just happens to have the most talented rookie QB in probably like 12 years so it was a good fit for him. Super talent young QB mixed with a defense that gives up a ton of points and no running game whatsoever, you couldnt script a team more suited for arians style than the colts right now

And the Steelers happen to have a more talented team than the Colts, and Haley couldn't create the right offense for them.

You can bash Arians all you want, and you may be right in some regards - but that doesn't change the fact that Haley has been worse.

LevonKirkland99
12-26-2012, 01:54 PM
And the Steelers happen to have a more talented team than the Colts, and Haley couldn't create the right offense for them.

You can bash Arians all you want, and you may be right in some regards - but that doesn't change the fact that Haley has been worse.

I don't think Haley has been worse in any way, its just the fact the offensive line is not that good. Ben's performance is directly related on how the OL performs...At least give Haley another season to see what he can do...

Crash
12-26-2012, 01:56 PM
Haley's only doing what II wants. If Haley had any backbone he would tell Art that his dinosaur way of thinking doesn't work in Roger Goodell's NFL.

K Train
12-26-2012, 02:18 PM
And the Steelers happen to have a more talented team than the Colts, and Haley couldn't create the right offense for them.

You can bash Arians all you want, and you may be right in some regards - but that doesn't change the fact that Haley has been worse.
i have way more faith in haley to get better though, arians was a plateau of mediocrity as an offensive coordinator.

haley started out very well, i understand that missing the playoffs has people way further down on everyone than they should be but ben was playing very efficient, heaths career was rejuvenated, bens pick and sack numbers plummeted and mike adams was playing like a stud even if he needed a bit of help, haley perfectly used TE and FB help to compliment adams and hide any weaknesses.

i was impressed early on, but there were a terrible number of injuries to OL, Ben, and RBs.....and the WRs absolutely blowing games was a huge problem in the second half and like i said, not one is less guilty than the other when it came to fumbles, drops, or just bonehead moves in general

Get7With7
12-26-2012, 02:32 PM
i have way more faith in haley to get better though, arians was a plateau of mediocrity as an offensive coordinator.

haley started out very well, i understand that missing the playoffs has people way further down on everyone than they should be but ben was playing very efficient, heaths career was rejuvenated, bens pick and sack numbers plummeted and mike adams was playing like a stud even if he needed a bit of help, haley perfectly used TE and FB help to compliment adams and hide any weaknesses.

i was impressed early on, but there were a terrible number of injuries to OL, Ben, and RBs.....and the WRs absolutely blowing games was a huge problem in the second half and like i said, not one is less guilty than the other when it came to fumbles, drops, or just bonehead moves in general

There were injuries under Arians, yet that was never an excuse for him. So why is it an excuse for Haley?

When he was hired we were all under the impression Haley makes his offenses under the strengths of his personnel. Is run, run, pass the strength of this offense? Or run, bubble screen, pass?

Either Haley is a fraud, or Art Rooney II is meddling with the offense.

Steveo
12-26-2012, 02:41 PM
So Ben's success is due to Haley?

Let's pretend for just a second that, maybe, just maybe, Ben is that good and look at Haley for what Haley has done.

1. Have you heard one commentator talk about the incredible offensive play calling?

2. Have you heard one commentator talk about the incredible offensive scheme?

Offensive genius my ***!

Not taking sides in this, as I'm as disheartened and disappointed as every other Steelers fan, but in answer to these two I have to say yes, after we beat the Giants, several commentators on SIRIUS NFL spoke highly of the great offensive play calling scheme of the Steelers. Now I haven't really much since, but I did hear it after that game.

LatrobePA
12-26-2012, 10:30 PM
Something happened. I read an article while the fill in QB's were playing and it was sounding like Haley was still tweaking and evolving the offense and that Ben would have to learn a few new parts of it. To me he didn't learn them or just didn't jive with them... Who knows there's no denying something got out of whack!

strummerfan
12-27-2012, 11:59 AM
I don't think Haley has been worse in any way, its just the fact the offensive line is not that good. Ben's performance is directly related on how the OL performs...At least give Haley another season to see what he can do...

He's been worse in almost every aspect of the game. Total rushing yards, yards per carry,time of possession, Touchdowns,Total passing, passing yards per play, Completion percentage, Yards per play, 1st downs, 3rd down conversions....
About the only things that have been better is we've given up 3(THREE) fewer sacks and missed 3 fewer field goals.

LatrobePA
12-27-2012, 12:48 PM
He's been worse in almost every aspect of the game. Total rushing yards, yards per carry,time of possession, Touchdowns,Total passing, passing yards per play, Completion percentage, Yards per play, 1st downs, 3rd down conversions....
About the only things that have been better is we've given up 3(THREE) fewer sacks and missed 3 fewer field goals.

Lol I knew they stuck it up but that's a tough pill to swallow!

Get7With7
12-27-2012, 12:54 PM
He's been worse in almost every aspect of the game. Total rushing yards, yards per carry,time of possession, Touchdowns,Total passing, passing yards per play, Completion percentage, Yards per play, 1st downs, 3rd down conversions....
About the only things that have been better is we've given up 3(THREE) fewer sacks and missed 3 fewer field goals.

That's not just damning to Todd Haley, that's also damning to Coach Art as he's the one who wanted Haley.

Crash
12-27-2012, 01:08 PM
OUCH!

http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/3188457-74/ben-steelers-arians#axzz2GGvInKsp

LatrobePA
12-27-2012, 09:12 PM
This offense sucked this year, numbers don't lie:

1366