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View Full Version : Tomlin's core draft group couldn't win jack squat!



The Lakelander
12-13-2012, 04:47 AM
Take an honest look at the core group of players currently seeing the field on game days for the Steelers. Is there a frightening void in impact play, leadership, and top tier NFL talent ... ???

I can argue that Tomlin's Super Bowl win was a Bill Cowher assembled football team ...

... and the "backbone" (most impactful, most consistant) players on the Steelers current roster are Cowher era holdovers ... Ben, Heath, Starks, Hampton, Troy, Harrison, Foote, Clark ...

Since then the talent level of Tomlin drafted starting players on Tomlin's Pittsburgh Steelers teams seems to keep slipping further down and away from the NFL's top tier teams ...

If you fielded a team of just Tomlin drafted players, THIS Steelers team wouldn't win jack squat!

Impact players drafted by Tomlin ...

2007
Timmons?

2009
Wallace?

Marginal players drafted by Tomlin ...

2007
Woodley (most overpaid player in Steelers history??)

2008
Mendenhall

2009
Hood, Lewis

2010
Pouncey, Worilds, Sanders, Brown

2011
Heyward, Gilbert

2012
DeCastro and Adams (too early to tell) but likely marginal players

Mike Tomlin Draft Pick FAILS (players having little to no favorable impact on game day outcomes):

2007
Spaeth, Sepulveda, McBean, Stephenson, Gay, Baker

2008
Sweed, Davis, Hills, Dixon, Humpal, Mundy

2009
Urbik, Burnett, Summers, Harris, Shipley, Johnson

2010
Gibson, Scott, Butler, Sylvester, Dwyer, Worthington

2011
Brown, Allen, Carter, Williams, Batch

2012
Ta'amu, Rainey, Clemons, Paulson, Frederick, Beachum

Nolrog
12-13-2012, 06:46 AM
Wow. This has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've read in a long long time.

SnakeEyes43
12-13-2012, 07:06 AM
Almsot every NFL team could make a list like this...

The Lakelander
12-13-2012, 07:29 AM
Wow. This has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've read in a long long time.

How so? ... Ignorant of what? ... Stats? ... Wins? ... AFC North Championships? ... Tomlin's Steelers have failed to win the AFC North now for 3 of the past 4 seasons ... this team plays second fiddle to a Ravens team that has aged just as quickly as us and has a less talented QB ...

Discuss ...

Steveo
12-13-2012, 08:13 AM
I can't speak for anyone else but the Ravens can win the division every year as far as I'm concern. Out of the 4 years you mentioned (assuming 2008 - 2011) we've always finished better than 8 & 8, have been to the Super bowl twice, and always seem to be in contention to make the playoffs. This sounds like the whining of a spoiled fan to me.

greg1964
12-13-2012, 08:26 AM
Lakelander: your view of of Impact player to failed player is off: depending on what year you look at:
Impact: Timmons, Wallace, (only) How could you leave Woodley, Pouncey, Mendenhall, Brown or Sanders off this list:
Yes Woodley has been hit with the injury bug the past two years, but he was a MAJOR player in helping the Steelers to go 24-8 that last two years. Pouncey is the best center in NFL and you have him listed as "marginal". Brown is so "marginal" that the Steelers just signed him to be there #1 WR ABOVE the player you defined as Impact "Wallace". And Wallace is such a "impact" player that the best thing the Steelers can do is let him walk after the year.

Marginal player: Woriods: How do you judge that? playing behind Harrison and Woodley, It's not like he is going to see the field very offend: K.Lewis: if you base it off his first two years, ok, but not this year, IMO he is a higher on my list of resigns then you beloved "Wallace". Brown and sanders are the Steelers WR for the next 6 years. I would have them listed as Impact Player. How could you have Adam and Decastro as marginal players. Decastro has played an offense down yet and Adam has had a Impact this year. I could go on, but what the point:

Failed: Beachum, Paulson, Rainey, Brown, Allen, Batch, Dwyer and Mundy will ALL be Steelers next year and depending on what happen in UFA some could be starters, so the Steelers view of them is a lot different then yours.
Gay, McBean, Spaeth, Urbik and Dixon: three are starters for other teams,

As you can see I disagree with your assessment: have there been failed draft picks: YES, but what team hasn't

Stone
12-13-2012, 08:42 AM
I don't like Tomlin's passive image but I get a kick out of fans who think they know better the people who make millions/billions (because they are the best in the world) to decide these things.

How bout us working stiffs pick a brain surgeon and list just how bad he is at his job?:lol:

Or....Let's pick a world renowned, Cleveland Clinic, heart surgeon and list why he sucks.

Because we are obviously better at it than they are:lol:

Nolrog
12-13-2012, 08:57 AM
How so? ... Ignorant of what? ... Stats? ... Wins? ... AFC North Championships? ... Tomlin's Steelers have failed to win the AFC North now for 3 of the past 4 seasons ... this team plays second fiddle to a Ravens team that has aged just as quickly as us and has a less talented QB ...

Discuss ...

See Greg's excellent summary.

I will add in 2 super bowl appearances, 1 championship and also note that Tomlin isn't the guy who drafts.

Real Deal Steel
12-13-2012, 10:19 AM
Almsot every NFL team could make a list like this...

I agree. Tomlin is in my doghouse too but even Bellichek has a list similar looking to this.

connecticutsteel
12-13-2012, 10:58 AM
Most of these players don't have enough game experience to be evaluated in this way someone please do a Cowher draft fail list even though he doesn't do the drafting pouncey and woodley are all pro heyward is playing well but not enough decastro will play this week adams is a solid rookie wallace,sanders,brown are all draft gems dwyer is averaging 4.3 yards a carry and is only 23 most rookies are 22 or 23 think before you speak
KEVIN COLBERT DOES THE DRAFTING WITH IMPUT FROM THE HC AND COORDINATORS


some of Cowhers [gems] lol

troy edwards -rd 1
jamain stevens-rd1
alonzo jackson-rd2
jeremy staat -rd2
anthony smith-rd2

i didn't do any passed the 2nd rd because the mjddle of the draft is a crap shoot

just for fun j did some belicheck misses too because he was mentioned above

bill's blunders
---------------------------------------
daniel graham rd 1
laurence maroney rd 2
deion branch rd2
chad jackson rd 2
ben watson rd 1
ellis hobbs rd 3
adrian klemm rd2 [bill's first pick for the pats ever in the draft ] drafted 46th overall that was the highest pick he had]
darius butler rd2
marquis hill rd 2
so you see even guys that supposedly can walk on water can suck in the draft
the pats use free agency more than most that's the easy way out

steelchamp204
12-13-2012, 11:04 AM
Spoiled fan alert.

scudmissile29
12-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Spoiled fan alert.

Agreed.

What a jackass.

I do think Woodley is overrated, but pouncey not good? Wallace isn't an impact player,

Spoiled fan for sure. TOmlin is **** at drafting though tbh.

steelchamp204
12-13-2012, 12:29 PM
Agreed.

What a jackass.

I do think Woodley is overrated, but pouncey not good? Wallace isn't an impact player,

Spoiled fan for sure. TOmlin is **** at drafting though tbh.

Woodley is good, I always said he would be better if he lost about 15 pounds of so. Yes, Tomlin has input in on draft picks but we should also put some of the blame on Colbert also.

coldrolled
12-13-2012, 12:46 PM
I think this crew of managers and coaches misses the boat mostly by not using FA when needed and quickly when FA first opens
we watch to many quality players go by..

We now need top of the line LB's and free agency could fix those spots quickly... We need to get to the QB in DL's scheme..

Until then we will be getting drilled on 3rd downs..

Stone
12-13-2012, 12:56 PM
I think this crew of managers and coaches misses the boat mostly by not using FA when needed and quickly when FA first opens
we watch to many quality players go by..

We now need top of the line LB's and free agency could fix those spots quickly... We need to get to the QB in DL's scheme..

Until then we will be getting drilled on 3rd downs..

But don't you think the Steelers long standing position of "not picking up someone elses junk" is a big part of their long term success?

Black@Gold Forever32
12-13-2012, 01:47 PM
Woodley has been plagued by injuries the past two seasons.....But Woodley had multi sacks in his first four or five post seasons games........Woodley when healthy is an impact player......Plus Woodley did post double digit sacks from 08-10.......I do understand the frustration with him not being on the field when he does have a huge contract.......

But lets review the Tomlin era drafts.....Remember Colbert has a hand in the drafting as well.....

2007

1. Lawrence Timmons
2. LaMarr Woodley
3. Matt Spaeth
4. Daniel Sepulveda
4. Ryan McBean
5. Cameron Stephenson
5. William Gay
7. Dallas Baker

I don't care what your opinion on Woodley is he still has been a productive player so Tomlin hit on the first two picks of his first draft........The rest of the draft wasn't anything special....William Gay did become a nickel corner who could spot start at times.....Whatever your opinion on him is you really can't ask more from a 5th round pick......But I would give this overall draft a success......

2008

1. Rashard Mendenhall
2. Limas Sweed
3. Bruce Davis
4. Tony Hills
5. Dennis Dixon
6. Mike Humpal
6. Ryan Mundy

This draft was disaster no doubt.....But still you can't fault them for taking Mendenhall.......Most draft experts were shocked that Rashard fell in the draft and was even there at 23 when the Steelers picked.....Of course Mendenhall didn't live up the expectations so its makes this draft look even worse now.......Still it looks like Ryan Mundy will be the only one that migh be on the roster next year and he is just a career backup.....

2009

1. Ziggy Hood
3. Kraig Urbik
3. Mike Wallace
3. Keenaan Lewis
5. Joe Burnett
5. Frank Summers
6. Rashon Harris
7. A.Q. Shipley
7. David Johnson

Mike Wallace and Keenan Lewis save this draft from being a total disaster........

2010

1. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Jason Worilds
3. Manny Sanders
4. Thad Gibson
5. Chris Scott
5. Crezdon Butler
5. Stevenson Sylvester
6. Jonathan Dwyer
6. Antonio Brown
7. Doug Worthington

I would say this has been the best draft in the Tomlin era so far...........Pouncey is one of the best centers in the NFL.....Manny Sanders could end up being a starter one day.......Antonio Brown is a starter......Dwyer might be the starting RB next year and Worilds is the top back up at OLB who could be a starter depending if Harrison is back....

2011

1. Cameron Heyward
2. Marcus Gilbert
3. Cutris Brown
4. Cortez Allen
5. Chris Carter
6. Keith Williams
7. Baron Batch

The jury is still out on Heyward, Gilbert, Brown, and Allen......But all four have shown flashes at times and all four could end up as starters are playing significant roles with the team in the near future....

2012

1. David DeCastro
2. Mike Adams
3. Sean Spence
4. Alameda Ta'amu
5. Chris Rainey
7. Tony Clemons
7. David Paulson
7. Terrance Frederick
7. Kelvin Beachum

I'm not going to comment about this draft since you can't really tell about a rookie class after 1 season....Injuries robbed DeCastro, Adams, Spence from really making an impact early.......DeCastro and Adams were great value picks and I still am very high on this draft class.....

But Cowher didn't always have great draft classes either......

His 2006 was brutal since Santonio Holmes was really the only one worth a damn from that draft class....Colon was drafted in the 4th round but Colon has been injury plagued throughout his career and has been average at best on the field....

2004 wasn't that great that either....Yes Ben was drafted and really saves this draft from total disaster......Max Starks has been solid and was drafted in third......But Ricardo Colclough drafted in the 2nd round....lol Great names like Bo Lacy, Matt Kranchick, and Drew Caylor were also picked in this draft.....

1999 Joey Porter in the third and Aaron Smith in the 4th saved this hot mess of a draft.......

1997 might be one of the worst Steelers drafts in history....

1. Chad Scott
2. Will Blackwell
3. Paul Wiggins
3. Mike Vrabel
5. George Jones
6. Daryl Porter
6. Rod Manuel
7. Mike Adams

Vrabel was the best pick in this draft and he made an impact with the Pats....lol

Zachintosh66
12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
technically... Tomlin doesnt draft anyone

coldrolled
12-13-2012, 06:42 PM
But don't you think the Steelers long standing position of "not picking up someone elses junk" is a big part of their long term success?

Farrior?

Clevelandsux
12-13-2012, 07:16 PM
Farrior?

Bettis?

Big T
12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
Bettis?

Bettis was traded for. And it was 16 years ago lol.

connecticutsteel
12-13-2012, 07:55 PM
i love how people refer to 2 great Steelers and refer to them as junk lol ah kids gotta love em

coldrolled
12-13-2012, 08:12 PM
i love how people refer to 2 great Steelers and refer to them as junk lol ah kids gotta love em

Hmmmm?

terrible.towel43
12-13-2012, 09:53 PM
LOL this guy lists 5-7 round picks as fails, what an idiot. This poster is completely ignorant

terrible.towel43
12-13-2012, 09:59 PM
technically... Tomlin doesnt draft anyone

This. It's the biggest misconception in the NFL. Tomlin gets the final say, but his decision is always largely impacted and influenced by Colbert and the scouting department. He's busy coaching his own team and worrying about winning games, not watching the college kids play. The scouts go watch them play live, things you can't see on film, they know what to look for in players, and its 95% they're recommendation that the final decision is based on

Blazedby92
12-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Its so bad I wouldnt be a Steeler fan no more, Wow this is an stupid thread, team has a mediocore year in how long and all of a sudden the finger pointing begins.

I almost ignored this reply then I seen at marginal players, POUNCEY really!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Nolrog
12-14-2012, 09:16 AM
Farrior?

Ryan Clark as well. We need another FA signing on defense like those two.

LatrobePA
12-14-2012, 09:21 AM
This team wasn't prepared last week, this week will be different I feel!

steelers75
12-14-2012, 11:23 AM
I think this crew of managers and coaches misses the boat mostly by not using FA when needed and quickly when FA first opens
we watch to many quality players go by..

Yeah, well, see, there's this thing called the salary cap, and quality players on the FA market typically come with an exorbitant price tag...

LASVEGASGUY
12-14-2012, 11:48 AM
I don't like Tomlin's passive image but I get a kick out of fans who think they know better the people who make millions/billions (because they are the best in the world) to decide these things.

How bout us working stiffs pick a brain surgeon and list just how bad he is at his job?:lol:

Or....Let's pick a world renowned, Cleveland Clinic, heart surgeon and list why he sucks.

Because we are obviously better at it than they are:lol:

I bet we could if we watched. listened and read about brain surgery as much as we follow the Steelers.

LASVEGASGUY
12-14-2012, 11:51 AM
Its so bad I wouldnt be a Steeler fan no more, Wow this is an stupid thread, team has a mediocore year in how long and all of a sudden the finger pointing begins.

I almost ignored this reply then I seen at marginal players, POUNCEY really!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

With the talent on this team being mediocre is a joke and someone needs to be held accountable.
If we were mediocre while being 30 million under the cap then I don't think anyone would be complaining.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
With the talent on this team being mediocre is a joke and someone needs to be held accountable.
If we were mediocre while being 30 million under the cap then I don't think anyone would be complaining.

I think the talent on this team is pretty average at best. Outside of having an elite QB... is this team really that talented?

Outside of Ben... are there any elite players on this team? Top 10 at their position?
They don't have any elite pass rushers
They don't have any elite offensive playmakers (excluding Ben)
They don't have any elite shut down or take away players in the secondary

Maybe this fan base has some blinders that need to be pulled back?

connecticutsteel
12-14-2012, 04:01 PM
no one has more than 2 elite players

ChucktownSteeler
12-14-2012, 05:58 PM
no one has more than 2 elite players

I am not sure the definition of "Elite" player, but you may want to check out the 49ers, Texans, perhaps Patriots. I think the Colts are on the rise.

There can be no debate we aren't as talented as we were a few years back, but I think someone of the comments on this thread are unwarranted. Lakelander is a very smart Steeler fan and I believe was attempting to create a nice discussional thread.

C-twn

SteelCityKid5
12-14-2012, 07:07 PM
If Mike Tomlins Super Bowl teams were built by Bill Cowher how come it took Bill 15 years to win 1? Also, why cant we let Cowher be Cowher and Tomlin be Tomlin? Move on.

Ibleedblk&gld
12-14-2012, 07:30 PM
I think the talent on this team is pretty average at best. Outside of having an elite QB... is this team really that talented?

Outside of Ben... are there any elite players on this team? Top 10 at their position?
They don't have any elite pass rushers
They don't have any elite offensive playmakers (excluding Ben)
They don't have any elite shut down or take away players in the secondary

Maybe this fan base has some blinders that need to be pulled back?

Heath IMO is the most underrated TE in the league...he is not used nearly enough

Nolrog
12-15-2012, 03:14 PM
I think the talent on this team is pretty average at best. Outside of having an elite QB... is this team really that talented?

Outside of Ben... are there any elite players on this team? Top 10 at their position?
They don't have any elite pass rushers
They don't have any elite offensive playmakers (excluding Ben)
They don't have any elite shut down or take away players in the secondary

Maybe this fan base has some blinders that need to be pulled back?


Pouncey, Wallace/Brown, Heath, Likely DeCastro once he gets some time.

Defensively, Ike, Clark, Troy, Timmons and you cannot discount Woodley.

I'd even add in Suisham.

Nolrog
12-15-2012, 03:16 PM
If Mike Tomlins Super Bowl teams were built by Bill Cowher how come it took Bill 15 years to win 1? Also, why cant we let Cowher be Cowher and Tomlin be Tomlin? Move on.

Because it took Cowher 13 years to get that franchise QB he needed. Once he did, he won very quickly.

SteelCityKid5
12-15-2012, 03:43 PM
What was Tomlin to do then? Clean shop and start over with his own team? He's still 2-0 in AFC champ. and 1-1 in SBs. 2-0 I might add at home in the AFC championship. Again, why must we compare the two? Did people judge Cowher this quickly when he was in his 6th year? By then he would have been 1-2 AFC champs and 0-1 in SBs. Why not let Tomlins career play out? Oh right, overreaction Steeler fans or spoiled.

TarlsQtr
12-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Because it took Cowher 13 years to get that franchise QB he needed. Once he did, he won very quickly.

But isn't it Cowher's fault if it took him 13 years to get a QB?

TarlsQtr
12-15-2012, 06:25 PM
What was Tomlin to do then? Clean shop and start over with his own team? He's still 2-0 in AFC champ. and 1-1 in SBs. 2-0 I might add at home in the AFC championship. Again, why must we compare the two? Did people judge Cowher this quickly when he was in his 6th year? By then he would have been 1-2 AFC champs and 0-1 in SBs. Why not let Tomlins career play out? Oh right, overreaction Steeler fans or spoiled.

Great post. They have Tomlin boxed into a Catch 22. If he wins with "Cowher's Team", he gets no credit. If he had lost with "Cowher's Team," he takes all the blame.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-15-2012, 08:01 PM
I have issues with Tomlin but he made changes to the so called Cowher's team when he became HC in 2007.....

2007 Tomlin cuts Porter so James Harrison can start....Big time move right there since Harrison was a beast from 07-10......Not to mention making the biggest impact defensive play in Super Bowl history in Super Bowl XLIII vs the Cards with his pick six of Warner.......

Timmons and Woodley were the first two draft picks in the Tomlin era....Two other major players in that 2008 defense that won a Super Bowl.......

No doubt Mike Tomlin took over a talented squad but they were 8-8 in 2006 and Tomlin had a hand in putting three major defensive players in the lineup that went on to win the Super Bowl in 2008.......

I say this all the time Mike Tomlin really is Bill Cowher without the spitting and yelling.....lol People think that Cowher was this hard core disciplinarian but that is far from the truth......I remember Burress saying that Cowher never fined him when he would show up to team meetings late.........Burress said that with the Giants after being fined by Coughlin.........

I think both Cowher and Tomlin were players coaches and really not the best at X's and O's........Both were or have been out coached at times......

Nolrog
12-15-2012, 08:06 PM
But isn't it Cowher's fault if it took him 13 years to get a QB?

Partly. But then again, Cowher, like Tomlin didn't ultimately make the selections. But that's the primary reason why it took Cowher so long to win. But Cowher's defenses, on average, were far superior to Tomlins.

Nolrog
12-15-2012, 08:07 PM
I say this all the time Mike Tomlin really is Bill Cowher without the spitting and yelling.....lol

I disagree. They have very different coaching styles. Cowher's teams were far more physical than Tomlins are. Tomlin tends to teach speed over physicality (plus Tomlin himself is more of a 4-3 guy.)

jnes1216
12-15-2012, 08:10 PM
Partly. But then again, Cowher, like Tomlin didn't ultimately make the selections. But that's the primary reason why it took Cowher so long to win. But Cowher's defenses, on average, were far superior to Tomlins.

Tomlin's defense has been #1 three times in his first five years.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-15-2012, 08:23 PM
I disagree. They have very different coaching styles. Cowher's teams were far more physical than Tomlins are. Tomlin tends to teach speed over physicality (plus Tomlin himself is more of a 4-3 guy.)

The whole NFL was more physical when Cowher coached....Rules really are taking the physicality out of the game......Ok what does Tomlin being a 4-3 guy have to do with anything....Dick LeBeau is still the DC and running the 3-4........Cowher and Tomlin are both players coaches and their strongest suit isn't X's and O's......Tomlin is just not as intense as Cowher....

TarlsQtr
12-15-2012, 09:18 PM
Tomlin's defense has been #1 three times in his first five years.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:plus1:

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 12:22 AM
Sometimes it helps to follow up on my original thoughts ...

LOL

It always comes after I'm called out as a "jack ***" ... what a ****ing shame ... what a weak reply ...

Pouncey may be considered "elite" ... but he's in the trenches, and his presence there hasn't righted our ship ... so I didn't classify him for the purposes of this thread as the type of player who is a game changer ...

Maybe our O-line is a few years away from elitism? ...

Pouncey's a decent player ... yes ... but he is no iron man ... he's missed some critical games in his career already ... Dawson never missed a ****ing game! ... nor did Webster ...

The only "playmakers" Tomlin has drafted are Wallace, Brown on offense and Timmons/Woodley on defense ...

Wallace has 32 TD's in 4 seasons ... Brown and Sanders COMBINED have just 9 in three seasons ... I like AB, but the Steelers have ostracized Wallace royally over his contract matter ... it's Wallace who has been the game changer! ...

Woodley is a soft-tissue nightmare! ... Sure he makes plays ... when he plays ... but he's (again) no iron man! ...

We've lost our edge ...

Tomlin hasn't done good enough!

And he's a sideline coach-tard at game time ...

And his staff sucks! ... Our strength and conditioning are very evidently lacking ... Our O-line gets blown off the ball regularly ... and our D-line gets zero penetration ... is it any wonder we play down to weak opponents ... ???

We never win a game on purely scheme ... NEVER! ... Belicheat does it EVERY Sunday! ... with less talented players on his roster ... it makes me sick!

I see Tomlin as a mere field manager ... a coordinator ... He's not a strategist and he's not a grand motivator ...

This season is a mere hiccup? ...

I hope those of you who think so are right ...

I see a four year long decline ...

gtadroptop
12-16-2012, 12:41 AM
Hope you're wrong about the decline, Lake.

How much blame/credit for game day performance do you put on the head coach vs the Offensive and Defensive coordinators?

TarlsQtr
12-16-2012, 12:58 AM
Sometimes it helps to follow up on my original thoughts ...

LOL

It always comes after I'm called out as a "jack ***" ... what a ****ing shame ... what a weak reply ...

Pouncey may be considered "elite" ... but he's in the trenches, and his presence there hasn't righted our ship ... so I didn't classify him for the purposes of this thread as the type of player who is a game changer ...

Maybe our O-line is a few years away from elitism? ...

Pouncey's a decent player ... yes ... but he is no iron man ... he's missed some critical games in his career already ... Dawson never missed a ****ing game! ... nor did Webster ...

The only "playmakers" Tomlin has drafted are Wallace, Brown on offense and Timmons/Woodley on defense ...

Wallace has 32 TD's in 4 seasons ... Brown and Sanders COMBINED have just 9 in three seasons ... I like AB, but the Steelers have ostracized Wallace royally over his contract matter ... it's Wallace who has been the game changer! ...

Woodley is a soft-tissue nightmare! ... Sure he makes plays ... when he plays ... but he's (again) no iron man! ...

We've lost our edge ...

Tomlin hasn't done good enough!

And he's a sideline coach-tard at game time ...

And his staff sucks! ... Our strength and conditioning are very evidently lacking ... Our O-line gets blown off the ball regularly ... and our D-line gets zero penetration ... is it any wonder we play down to weak opponents ... ???

We never win a game on purely scheme ... NEVER! ... Belicheat does it EVERY Sunday! ... with less talented players on his roster ... it makes me sick!

I see Tomlin as a mere field manager ... a coordinator ... He's not a strategist and he's not a grand motivator ...

This season is a mere hiccup? ...

I hope those of you who think so are right ...

I see a four year long decline ...

So, now we are blaming Tomlin for drafting players that get injured? How was he supposed to know this? Buy a Ouija board?

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 01:08 AM
So, now we are blaming Tomlin for drafting players that get injured? How was he supposed to know this? Buy a Ouija board?

Who's blaming? ... I'm just pointing out facts ...

Woodley is a soft-tissue nightmare ...

You want part-time starters on YOUR roster? ...

You're too shallow to get the point evidently ...

Woodley has a huge contract ... and he gives part-time game day effort ... **** THAT!

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 01:18 AM
Hope you're wrong about the decline, Lake.

How much blame/credit for game day performance do you put on the head coach vs the Offensive and Defensive coordinators?

It's so damned up and down week-to-week that it's hard to put the finger on it ...

Ben is a weak red-zone QB ... his entire career is lacking in TD passes ... it's a real problem ... Haley needs to fix it! ...

We don't score points like other elite offenses ... yet I keep hearing about all this offensive talent we have ...

As a fan, I took off my homer goggles a long time ago ...

Our defense has softened in recent years from what it once was ... we used to have 4-5 elite players ... Woodson, Lake, Kevin Greene, Kirkland, Lloyd ... BIG TIME playmakers ... now, we're down to a part-time Troy and a part-time Woodley ...

See the decline? ...

Who's "next in line" ... I don't see any greatness emerging from this team's ranks ...

Lebeau is clearly doing a great job this year ... maybe his best coaching effort ever? ...

But even Lebeau must be seeing the slide in talent and playmaking ... hell, it's so gaddam obvious in the lack of "splash play" stats that it must smack LeBeau across the face every time he looks into the mirror ...

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 01:26 AM
I was way out front and loud on my criticism of Mendenhall three full seasons ago! ... the guy supposedly has "all the talent in the world" ... but he has a serious lack of any viable threat to his game ... he can't break the long TD run or dominate a ground attack ... he can't pound it up the gut like the elite bruisers can ...

Maybe it's scheme? ... a team needs to commit to the run game ... the Steelers haven't done so since Tomlin took the reigns ...

Haley was supposed to right that ship? ...

They can't figure out how to attack the run any more ... so they abandon it completely by the 3rd Quarter ...

terrible.towel43
12-16-2012, 01:27 AM
Who's blaming? ... I'm just pointing out facts ...

Woodley is a soft-tissue nightmare ...

You want part-time starters on YOUR roster? ...

You're too shallow to get the point evidently ...

Woodley has a huge contract ... and he gives part-time game day effort ... **** THAT!

No, he gets the point, you're pointing out that our players are too injury prone and because of that Tomlin's picks are busts.
You're obviously not getting the point that when you draft a player you can't predict injuries.
Also Tomlin doesn't sign players to contracts, thats the GM's job, its not his fault Woodley is overpaid. You have extremely weak arguments.

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 01:43 AM
No, he gets the point, you're pointing out that our players are too injury prone and because of that Tomlin's picks are busts.
You're obviously not getting the point that when you draft a player you can't predict injuries.
Also Tomlin doesn't sign players to contracts, thats the GM's job, its not his fault Woodley is overpaid. You have extremely weak arguments.

So Tomlin has no say in the "vision" of how this team evolves ... contractually? ...

AB is now our offense's financial obligation ... and he has a mere 5 TD's to Wallace's 32 ...

How lacking will our offense be when our only viable scoring threat is dressed in Blue and Silver next season? ...

BlacknGoldHaze
12-16-2012, 01:53 AM
It's 1985 all over again....it happens......

BlacknGoldHaze
12-16-2012, 01:54 AM
Years of poor drafts coupled with aging veterans and lack of vision......gets you to mediocrity in a hurry.

BlacknGoldHaze
12-16-2012, 01:59 AM
As much as I hate to admit it, this is NOT a championship caliber team....elite teams will have an occasional bad game, but they don't lose a series of games to the likes of Tennessee, Oakland, Cleveland and San Diego.......When was the last time we throttled a team we should have??

BlacknGoldHaze
12-16-2012, 02:00 AM
And how do we give Tomlin a pass when he obviously gave up on the San Diego game when things were looking "bleak"??

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 02:09 AM
Years of poor drafts coupled with aging veterans and lack of vision......gets you to mediocrity in a hurry.

One more draft on the O-Line ... Pouncey, Decastro, Adams and Gilbert could be a very formidable group in time ... if they are allowed to develop ... The league seems to have roughly a three year window of opportunity for the top core player groups ... Maybe they hit it all at the same time and peak as a unit ... that, and a game-changing elite RB coinciding at the same time would be the ticket to turning this thing around ...

The defense needs 3-4 more major league impact players around Timmons for the future ... Woodley is far too part-time ... and Troy and Clark are winding down ... so is Ike for that matter ... Timmons is starting his peak right now and we have nobody else on defense coinciding with it ... the concussions have taken a very real toll on the level of physicality we are getting from our Safeties ... Troy and Clark have too many head-jarring injuries and too few left in them ...

Tomlin needs to figure this stuff out and move quickly to get the personnel in place to right this ship while Ben has a leg left ... I hate how the contracts have been doled out to Woodley and AB ... those aren't the core players to have hamstringing the salary cap space in my opinion ...

The Lakelander
12-16-2012, 02:18 AM
As much as I hate to admit it, this is NOT a championship caliber team....elite teams will have an occasional bad game, but they don't lose a series of games to the likes of Tennessee, Oakland, Cleveland and San Diego.......When was the last time we throttled a team we should have??

They could surprise like in 2005 again ... there is enough talent in the tank ... but anyone banking on it is wearing goggles ... not four straight road games again ... no way!

jnes1216
12-16-2012, 02:30 AM
Safety is a major concern for next years draft. I think Clark is much better off physically than Troy. But replacements are a definite need. The def. line is an enigma. Hood is marginal, and this certainly has to be Hampton's last year. I see no dominant play from them at all.

With Colbert and the scouting staff I would be intrigued to see how much Tomlin's opinion is weighted on drafting players. I was surprised to read Haley's comments about drafting Beachum. He said they remember high fiving, etc because they got him at such a late round (seventh maybe?). I knew the coordinators also had some input but I wasn't sure how much. Sounds like it may be a collective decision and KC has the final say.

ChucktownSteeler
12-16-2012, 07:20 AM
Next year's draft is slated to have a bounty crop of safeties, so I would think they will target a safety in the first or second round.

I am hoping I can soon change my signature photo and add a fourth safety to the banner.

gtadroptop
12-16-2012, 08:56 AM
It's 1985 all over again....it happens......

I still have nightmares from that era. Cries of the game passing Noll by, Joe must go, and dealing with my Brownie friends.

ChucktownSteeler
12-16-2012, 12:31 PM
I still have nightmares from that era. Cries of the game passing Noll by, Joe must go, and dealing with my Brownie friends.

Weegie Thompson

gtadroptop
12-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Weegie Thompson

Mark Malone. Never the same after he got hurt.

ChucktownSteeler
12-16-2012, 03:23 PM
Louis Lipps

ChucktownSteeler
12-16-2012, 03:24 PM
Bryan Hinkle

Raleigh Steel
12-16-2012, 03:34 PM
weegie thompson was 6-6!:lol:

BlacknGoldHaze
12-17-2012, 10:38 PM
Hey, Weegie and Hinkle were awesome!