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scudmissile29
12-10-2012, 02:06 AM
Want Mike Tomlin to be shown the door.

He isn't a gameday coach, just ****ing stands there, claps and doesn't ****ing do much else.

Living off Cowher's reputation.

Wish Cowher stayed on so 2008 was his year and legacy.

Sadly not.

2008 belongs to some **** that should be unemployed.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:12 AM
Want Mike Tomlin to be shown the door.

He isn't a gameday coach, just ****ing stands there, claps and doesn't ****ing do much else.

Living off Cowher's reputation.

Wish Cowher stayed on so 2008 was his year and legacy.

Sadly not.

2008 belongs to some **** that should be unemployed.

I'm no fan of Tomlin as well right now but he won't be shown the door....The Rooney's won't fire him.....As for Cowher we don't know if the Steelers would have even won the Super Bowl in 2008 with Cowher......Cowher wouldn't have cut Porter to allow James Harrison to start in 2007....Porter was a Cowher favorite.....That was the right move no doubt.....I doubt if Cowher had remained that him and Colbert would have drafted Timmons and Woodley in 2007.....Those two were difference makers on that 2008 squad as well......Cowher had a great career in Pittsburgh but it was time for him to go.......The Tomlin era got off to a great start but more and more this team under Mikey T. is to sloppy and undisciplined.........

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:25 AM
living off cowher? how many cowher players are left? Ben, Heath, Troy, Ike, Keisel, Starks, Hampton, and foote?

Cowher was a horrible game day coach, martyball to the tee. He just spit and yelled a lot. Tomlin is fine

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:34 AM
living off cowher? how many cowher players are left? Ben, Heath, Troy, Ike, Keisel, Starks, Hampton, and foote?

Cowher was a horrible game day coach, martyball to the tee. He just spit and yelled a lot. Tomlin is fine

I can't argue anything you said about Cowher....Plus he was 1-1 in Super Bowls and 2-4 in AFC title games (which five were played in Pittsburgh)........But Tomlin isn't that much better of a game day coach then Cowher really......Cowher was out coached plenty of times and so is Tomlin....Cowher wasn't great at X's and O's and so isn't Tomlin.......Tomlin actually reminds me of Cowher without the spit and yelling....lol Tomlin just comes up with one witty cliche after another.....

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:48 AM
tomlin is still a top 5 coach, he wouldnt last a day without a job

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:25 AM
tomlin is still a top 5 coach, he wouldnt last a day without a job

Belichick, Coughlin, McCarthy, Payton are all in the discussion.....Plus he isn't going anywhere so really there is no need to even talk about him being fired.....But he does drive me nuts at times.....

scudmissile29
12-10-2012, 09:10 AM
living off cowher? how many cowher players are left? Ben, Heath, Troy, Ike, Keisel, Starks, Hampton, and foote?

Cowher was a horrible game day coach, martyball to the tee. He just spit and yelled a lot. Tomlin is fine

cowher only lost 1 game after being ahead going into the second half.

im pretty sure mike tomlin is at least 30-40% worse.

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 09:54 AM
Cowher was a Franchise QB away from a few Superbowls....albeit he screwed up a few AFC Championships because of it.....Tomlin is just plain HORRIBLE on Game Day.......Don't be so sure the the Steelers won't let him go this is a different Rooney family as well.....I am not a BA fan but the Rooneys dropped him like a hot potato last season based on fan displeasure as well as Tomlin throwing him under the bus......Now he is leading a far less talented team into the Playoffs.......so who is the Better Coach?????........Tomlin won't be around in a year or two if this trend continues......

coldrolled
12-10-2012, 10:03 AM
We need a young 1st round LT and another top of the line Guard or Center ..

We need an OLB and a Mike like Manti Teo...

We need one young Clark at safety....

Thats all.

Farrior Fan
12-10-2012, 10:10 AM
while we are filling out our wish list, lets add a top notch CB with some experience. I agree with the others you listed. Maybe we can duplicate the draft of '74.
We need a young 1st round LT and another top of the line Guard or Center ..

We need an OLB and a Mike like Manti Teo...

We need one young Clark at safety....

Thats all.

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 10:28 AM
The team wasn't prepared at all, defense, offense, this can be blamed in the HC.. The Chargers are still a very good team, top 10 defense, great QB with some quality help around him. Maybe we should give Norv and his crew some credit, they beat us!!

I'm still not a huge MT fan...

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 11:15 AM
Yawn....the "fire Tomlin" talk is getting so old. We talk about this after every single loss

scudmissile29
12-10-2012, 11:17 AM
We need a young 1st round LT and another top of the line Guard or Center ..

We need an OLB and a Mike like Manti Teo...

We need one young Clark at safety....

Thats all.

I want to see what Spence is like first, probably one of the few good picks in Tomlin's era for defense.

Real Deal Steel
12-10-2012, 11:45 AM
tomlin is still a top 5 coach, he wouldnt last a day without a job

I seriously think Gruden would be an upgrade over Tomlin. I just see no real leadership from Tomlin. Players are not really held accountable for their actions.

K Train
12-10-2012, 11:50 AM
I seriously think Gruden would be an upgrade over Tomlin. I just see no real leadership from Tomlin. Players are not really held accountable for their actions.

absolutely not. gruden would ruin ben, i absolutely despise to offensive scheme gruden insists on running. Ben is brilliant out og the shotgun, idk if gruden has ever called a shotgun play.

I dont get how guys like gruden and cowher can be so horrible (one was so bad he was fired and one completely quit) but they just pick up so much steam as the biggest name in coaching like all if forgotten. Gruden ran TB into the ground because of his stubborness, especially at QB. Talk about someone riding someone elses success......that was gruden in tampa winning with dungys guys

SteelCityKid5
12-10-2012, 12:26 PM
You dont see 95% of Tomlin during the week. You only witness what he does on Sundays and even then you see about 3% of what he does when the camera pans on him. This thread is stupid and pointless. Every damn year it's fire Tomlin, he's a proven SB winning coach in this league. He did in 2 years what Cowher couldn't do in about 15 years. He's 2-0 in AFC championship games and they were at home also something Cowher struggled with. Tomlin is going to be here for awhile and thats the way it should be. Organizations would be fighting over Tomlin if we let him go which is stupid and irrational. Get over yourself.

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 12:41 PM
All the pissing and moaning (me included) will not show him the door. He's not awful he just doesn't seem to be able to prepare the team at times. I think the whole team assumed Ben is back so we can slip up he'll have our backs!

elephantman
12-10-2012, 01:05 PM
Yawn....the "fire Tomlin" talk is getting so old. We talk about this after every single loss

LOL !!!! this S--T is hysterical...looks like we all hate Cowher and Tomlin after a terrible loss to Chargers...Bring back Noll!!!!!!!

Real Deal Steel
12-10-2012, 01:32 PM
Cowher was a Franchise QB away from a few Superbowls....albeit he screwed up a few AFC Championships because of it.....Tomlin is just plain HORRIBLE on Game Day.......Don't be so sure the the Steelers won't let him go this is a different Rooney family as well.....I am not a BA fan but the Rooneys dropped him like a hot potato last season based on fan displeasure as well as Tomlin throwing him under the bus......Now he is leading a far less talented team into the Playoffs.......so who is the Better Coach?????........Tomlin won't be around in a year or two if this trend continues......

I have to agree with this.

Cowher didn't have franchise QB's for the majority of his time in Steel town. If he did, We would have made atleast two-three more Super Bowls. Cowher is a better coach then Tomlin.

But..Colbert has equal blame in this as Tomlin. I'm ready for a change at the GM position as well.

steelchamp204
12-10-2012, 01:39 PM
I think this team would be good if the line was half decent. Just saying. Why so soon to fire MT? We have threads like this all the time after a loss.:evilshake: We los Ben for 3 weeks, missed Troy for 9. Have a new offensive line every week it seems, lost woodley for some games, played without harrison for a few, AB out and we are still holding onto the 6th seed for the playoffs with every opportunity to win out which is possible. I think MT has done pretty decent this year.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 01:42 PM
I have to agree with this.

Cowher didn't have franchise QB's for the majority of his time in Steel town. If he did, We would have made atleast two-three more Super Bowls. Cowher is a better coach then Tomlin.

But..Colbert has equal blame in this as Tomlin. I'm ready for a change at the GM position as well.

But Cowher with his own ego thought he could win a Super Bowl with just a power run game and playing great defense so he didn't value the QB position....Cowher takes blame since he did have a say in draft matters (its why Tom Donahoe did stepped down after the 99 season as the teams director of football operations in a power struggle with Cowher) and did neglect the QB position for years......Cowher didn't even want to draft Ben and wanted to draft Shawn Andrews the OG from Arkansas but Dan Rooney stepped in and said draft Ben.......

K Train
12-10-2012, 01:51 PM
if you asked cowher what he thought of kordell stewart he would have called him a franchise QB and then ejaculated all of the podium back then...the franchise QB argument is dumb considering he was infatuated with kordell and stuck with him way to long

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:02 PM
if you asked cowher what he thought of kordell stewart he would have called him a franchise QB and then ejaculated all of the podium back then...the franchise QB argument is dumb considering he was infatuated with kordell and stuck with him way to long

You had to mention Kordell.......Memories of the 97 and 01 AFC title game losses just popped back up in my mind......lol But I agree with you about Cowher and Kordell.....I have issues with Tomlin but I have never wanted Cowher back......I sure don't miss losing AFC title games in Pittsburgh......lol

The 1994 AFC title game loss vs the Chargers in Pittsburgh was the worst loss for me as a fan.........That 94 defense was a great unit and really on par with the 2008 Steelers defense.......

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 02:10 PM
Cowher was a horrible game day coach, martyball to the tee. He just spit and yelled a lot. Tomlin is fine

Stop it. You embarrass yourself when people who actually know Steeler football read garbage statements like this. You would've done a lot more than spit and yell if you had the quarterbacks Cowher had. Anyone who faults Cowher for not winning the big game with the quarterbacks he had is either spoiled or completely stupid. Mediocre quarterbacks don't win Superbowls unless they play against mediocre quarterbacks like Dilfer against Collins or Brad Johnson against Gannon. To blame Cowher for Neil O'Donnell, an average quarterback at best, getting his *** handed to him by hall of famer Troy Aikman is beyond stupid. To blame Cowher for not winning the AFC Championship with Kordell f#%king Stewart against hall of famer John Elway is even more stupid.

At least with Cowher, Steelers fans could count on the team making the playoffs despite the quarterback, and from there, you would just have to hope that whichever mediocre Steelers quarterback was starting would have a great fluke performance in the playoffs while the real playoff caliber quarterbacks like Bledsoe and Elway would crap the bed. People quickly point to the AFC Championship loss to the Chargers. Two points: the Steelers defense folded at the end and we would've been embarrassed by Steve Young and the 49ers anyway just like O'Donnell got embarrassed by the Aikman and the Cowboys.

Tomlin with a hall of fame quarterback, currently top 5 in the league, in the prime of his f#*king career has been eliminated in the first round twice by Tebow and the Broncos and Garrard and the Jaguars. Do you even remember Garrard's stats in that game? he was disgusting, and Tomlin still managed to lose the game. Let's throw in a playoff miss and another one coming this year. Yeah. He's fine. F**king moronic.

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
Stop it. You embarrass yourself when people who actually know Steeler football read garbage statements like this. You would've done a lot more than spit and yell if you had the quarterbacks Cowher had. Anyone who faults Cowher for not winning the big game with the quarterbacks he had is either spoiled or completely stupid. Mediocre quarterbacks don't win Superbowls unless they play against mediocre quarterbacks like Dilfer against Collins or Brad Johnson against Gannon. To blame Cowher for Neil O'Donnell, an average quarterback at best, getting his *** handed to him by hall of famer Troy Aikman is beyond stupid. To blame Cowher for not winning the AFC Championship with Kordell f#%king Stewart against hall of famer John Elway is even more stupid.

At least with Cowher, Steelers fans could count on the team making the playoffs despite the quarterback, and from there, you would just have to hope that whichever mediocre Steelers quarterback was starting would have a great fluke performance in the playoffs while the real playoff caliber quarterbacks like Bledsoe and Elway would crap the bed. People quickly point to the AFC Championship loss to the Chargers. Two point: the Steelers defense folded at the end and we would've been embarrassed by Steve Young and the 49ers anyway just like O'Donnell got embarrassed by the Aikman and the Cowboys.

Tomlin with a hall of fame quarterback, currently top 5 in the league, in the prime of his f#*king career has been eliminated in the first round twice by Tebow and the Broncos and Jacksonville and Garrard and the Jaguars. Do you even remember Garrard's stats in that game? he was disgusting, and Tomlin still managed to lose the game. Let's throw in a playoff miss and another one coming this year. Yeah. He's fine. F**king moronic.
cowher also blantantly quit on the team and the fans, i dont get how that doesnt make you sick

steelers fans have been able to count on tomlins team making the playoffs, his record is out of this world for a young HC. Cowher was not an x's and o's guy, he was one hell of a motivator and what almost just made into this character that everyone loved despite his faults. He was Marty Shottenheimer jr. in almost every way as a coach, especially in the playoffs. Steelers wanted consistency and stuck with him even through bad times which everyone saying "fire tomlin" is taking for granted, that longevity at coaching is a serious formula for success for this team...what do you want to do bring in gruden? a much worse coach? hell they should go after spurrier or saban or meyer right? you seriously dont know what the **** you are talking about, you are spewing garbage.

I get that you just assume they are going to win the superbowl every year and while i hope they do they arent the first team that lost to that jagaur team that year or that bronco team last year. Ive seen them in brawls with the broncos so often over the years and not to mention Del Rio coached on that jacksonville team and he was the broncos d coodinator under john fox....but i guess that gets over looked, the idea that omg a coach could have been there done that before and get the upper hand on the steelers is just insane, they should clearly clean house and start over fresh. Del Rios defense has always been a terror for the steelers from john henderson and marcus stroud being earthquakes in the middle of the dline to rashean mathis having probably 5 career pick6s against ben. Von Miller has been dominating the entire league and instead of mathis it was bailey and porter. After all the brawls the steelers have had with the raiders, chargers, jaguars, and broncos over the years you have to expect close games sometimes, not everything is a blowout in favor of the steelers

and cowher loved kordell, i guarantee he looked at kordell as a franchise QB back then...he was not the greatest evaluator of talent and really stuck with "his guys" much too long in some situations

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:27 PM
Stop it. You embarrass yourself when people who actually know Steeler football read garbage statements like this. You would've done a lot more than spit and yell if you had the quarterbacks Cowher had. Anyone who faults Cowher for not winning the big game with the quarterbacks he had is either spoiled or completely stupid. Mediocre quarterbacks don't win Superbowls unless they play against mediocre quarterbacks like Dilfer against Collins or Brad Johnson against Gannon. To blame Cowher for Neil O'Donnell, an average quarterback at best, getting his *** handed to him by hall of famer Troy Aikman is beyond stupid. To blame Cowher for not winning the AFC Championship with Kordell f#%king Stewart against hall of famer John Elway is even more stupid.

At least with Cowher, Steelers fans could count on the team making the playoffs despite the quarterback, and from there, you would just have to hope that whichever mediocre Steelers quarterback was starting would have a great fluke performance in the playoffs while the real playoff caliber quarterbacks like Bledsoe and Elway would crap the bed. People quickly point to the AFC Championship loss to the Chargers. Two points: the Steelers defense folded at the end and we would've been embarrassed by Steve Young and the 49ers anyway just like O'Donnell got embarrassed by the Aikman and the Cowboys.

Tomlin with a hall of fame quarterback, currently top 5 in the league, in the prime of his f#*king career has been eliminated in the first round twice by Tebow and the Broncos and Garrard and the Jaguars. Do you even remember Garrard's stats in that game? he was disgusting, and Tomlin still managed to lose the game. Let's throw in a playoff miss and another one coming this year. Yeah. He's fine. F**king moronic.

Who stuck with Kordell all those years?....Bill Cowher.....Cowher had an ego and thought he could win a Super Bowl with his power running game and playing great defense while devaluing the QB position.......Bill Cowher had a major say in draft matters and Tom Donahoe stepping down as the team director of football operations after the 99 season proves that......Cowher didn't even want to draft Ben......Thank God Dan Rooney stepped in and put his foot down......

I just find it funny you blame Tomlin for everything under the sun but you can't put any blame on the great Bill Cowher for all those AFC title losses in Pittsburgh......I'm far from a Tomlin supporter at this point but I won't give Cowher a free pass like you do......

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 02:29 PM
cowher also blantantly quit on the team and the fans, i dont get how that doesnt make you sick

steelers fans have been able to count on tomlins team making the playoffs, his record is out of this world for a young HC. Cowher was not an x's and o's guy, he was one hell of a motivator and what almost just made into this character that everyone loved despite his faults. He was Marty Shottenheimer jr. in almost every way as a coach, especially in the playoffs. Steelers wanted consistency and stuck with him even through bad times which everyone saying "fire tomlin" is taking for granted, that longevity at coaching is a serious formula for success for this team...what do you want to do bring in gruden? a much worse coach? hell they should go after spurrier or saban or meyer right? you seriously dont know what the **** you are talking about, you are spewing garbage.

I get that you just assume they are going to win the superbowl every year and while i hope they do they arent the first team that lost to that jagaur team that year or that bronco team last year. Ive seen them in brawls with the broncos so often over the years and not to mention Del Rio coached on that jacksonville team and he was the broncos d coodinator under john fox....but i guess that gets over looked, the idea that omg a coach could have been there done that before and get the upper hand on the steelers is just insane, they should clearly clean house and start over fresh. Del Rios defense has always been a terror for the steelers from john henderson and marcus stroud being earthquakes in the middle of the dline to rashean mathis having probably 5 career pick6s against ben. Von Miller has been dominating the entire league and instead of mathis it was bailey and porter. After all the brawls the steelers have had with the raiders, chargers, jaguars, and broncos over the years you have to expect close games sometimes, not everything is a blowout in favor of the steelers

and cowher loved kordell, i guarantee he looked at kordell as a franchise QB back then...he was not the greatest evaluator of talent and really stuck with "his guys" much too long in some situations

For once, we agree.

So what I'm getting from everyone that wants Tomlin gone is that you want to bring in another coach. If that coach doesn't win, everybody's going to want him gone and bring in someone else. It's crazy to me. There's only so much a head coach can do. Tomlin can't account for fumbles and interceptions or players not playing up to their full potential.

NFL fans are never happy. You want Tomlin to get rid of Arians, he does it. You want Tomlin to be stricter with players, benches Mendenhall for two weeks straight. Fans are never going to be happy until a team wins every single game of every single season that they're supposed to win. Never going to happen.

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:32 PM
For once, we agree.

So what I'm getting from everyone that wants Tomlin gone is that you want to bring in another coach. If that coach doesn't win, everybody's going to want him gone and bring in someone else. It's crazy to me. There's only so much a head coach can do. Tomlin can't account for fumbles and interceptions or players not playing up to their full potential.

NFL fans are never happy. You want Tomlin to get rid of Arians, he does it. You want Tomlin to be stricter with players, benches Mendenhall for two weeks straight. Fans are never going to be happy until a team wins every single game of every single season that they're supposed to win. Never going to happen.
now i feel weird

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 02:34 PM
cowher also blantantly quit on the team and the fans, i dont get how that doesnt make you sick

steelers fans have been able to count on tomlins team making the playoffs, his record is out of this world for a young HC. Cowher was not an x's and o's guy, he was one hell of a motivator and what almost just made into this character that everyone loved despite his faults. He was Marty Shottenheimer jr. in almost every way as a coach, especially in the playoffs. Steelers wanted consistency and stuck with him even through bad times which everyone saying "fire tomlin" is taking for granted, that longevity at coaching is a serious formula for success for this team...what do you want to do bring in gruden? a much worse coach? hell they should go after spurrier or saban or meyer right? you seriously dont know what the **** you are talking about, you are spewing garbage.

I get that you just assume they are going to win the superbowl every year and while i hope they do they arent the first team that lost to that jagaur team that year or that bronco team last year. Ive seen them in brawls with the broncos so often over the years and not to mention Del Rio coached on that jacksonville team and he was the broncos d coodinator under john fox....but i guess that gets over looked, the idea that omg a coach could have been there done that before and get the upper hand on the steelers is just insane, they should clearly clean house and start over fresh. Del Rios defense has always been a terror for the steelers from john henderson and marcus stroud being earthquakes in the middle of the dline to rashean mathis having probably 5 career pick6s against ben. Von Miller has been dominating the entire league and instead of mathis it was bailey and porter. After all the brawls the steelers have had with the raiders, chargers, jaguars, and broncos over the years you have to expect close games sometimes, not everything is a blowout in favor of the steelers

You're the one that spews garbage regarding Tomlin and Cowher. You make up nonsense or omit facts in order to back up your own opinion. How the f##k do you know if Cowher was an x's and o's guy or not? x's and o's seemed fine when it came to the running game. Perhaps the passing game sucked because he had no one to throw the ball. Keep ignoring Bubby Brister, Graham, Maddox, Stewart and O'Donnell and just place the blame on the head coach. Is Coughlin an x's and o's guy? He didn't win with Brunell did he? He had to wait until he got a polished Eli Manning in his 4th season to win.

All I need to know about Tomlin is that he has Ben Reothlisberger. Put Roethlisberger on more than half the teams in the league and the head coach will have Tomlin's regular season record, if not better. Six seasons with a future hall of famer in his prime and he's been eliminated in the first round to miserable teams twice and will have missed the playoffs twice. I never expected to be a great team when I knew the season was opening up with Kordell Stewart as the starting QB. I was happy just to see them get into the playoffs. But I do expect to see a lot when Roethlisberger is the QB because once he's gone, chances are we'll be back to average quarterbacks for a very long time. The time to be great and win as a team is NOW.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:35 PM
For once, we agree.

So what I'm getting from everyone that wants Tomlin gone is that you want to bring in another coach. If that coach doesn't win, everybody's going to want him gone and bring in someone else. It's crazy to me. There's only so much a head coach can do. Tomlin can't account for fumbles and interceptions or players not playing up to their full potential.

NFL fans are never happy. You want Tomlin to get rid of Arians, he does it. You want Tomlin to be stricter with players, benches Mendenhall for two weeks straight. Fans are never going to be happy until a team wins every single game of every single season that they're supposed to win. Never going to happen.

You're damn right I'm never happy......I had to sit through all those let downs before seeing this team finally win two Super Bowls......I'm more calm now then I was when I was younger....lol There a time you couldn't talk to me for at least 3-4 days after a Steelers loss....lol I use rant all the time about firing Cowher so Tomlin gets the same treatment......

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 02:36 PM
Who stuck with Kordell all those years?....Bill Cowher.....Cowher had an ego and thought he could win a Super Bowl with his power running game and playing great defense while devaluing the QB position.......Bill Cowher had a major say in draft matters and Tom Donahoe stepping down as the team director of football operations after the 99 season proves that......Cowher didn't even want to draft Ben......Thank God Dan Rooney stepped in and put his foot down......

I just find it funny you blame Tomlin for everything under the sun but you can't put any blame on the great Bill Cowher for all those AFC title losses in Pittsburgh......I'm far from a Tomlin supporter at this point but I won't give Cowher a free pass like you do......

I want you to name me the QBs (other than Brady) that the team actually had a chance to get with their draft spot every season, which was never great. Let's see who Cowher passed up. Was he stubborn? Or did he just not have the draft spot where it would've been worth spending on a QB?

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 02:39 PM
For once, we agree.

So what I'm getting from everyone that wants Tomlin gone is that you want to bring in another coach. If that coach doesn't win, everybody's going to want him gone and bring in someone else. It's crazy to me. There's only so much a head coach can do. Tomlin can't account for fumbles and interceptions or players not playing up to their full potential.

NFL fans are never happy. You want Tomlin to get rid of Arians, he does it. You want Tomlin to be stricter with players, benches Mendenhall for two weeks straight. Fans are never going to be happy until a team wins every single game of every single season that they're supposed to win. Never going to happen.

I'm curious how old you are. I'm curious if you were alive and consciously aware of the Steelers and their quarterbacks for about two decades. Ben Roethlisberger type quarterbacks come along once in a blue moon. Once he's done, then you'll know why people were complaining about not winning more often while we actually had a young Roethlisberger. Quote me on this, once Roethlisberger is gone, the Steelers will not return to the Superbowl for at least 10 years. Wait and see.

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:43 PM
You're the one that spews garbage regarding Tomlin and Cowher. You make up nonsense or omit facts in order to back up your own opinion. How the f##k do you know if Cowher was an x's and o's guy or not? x's and o's seemed fine when it came to the running game. Perhaps the passing game sucked because he had no one to throw the ball. Keep ignoring Bubby Brister, Graham, Maddox, Stewart and O'Donnell and just place the blame on the head coach. Is Coughlin an x's and o's guy? He didn't win with Brunell did he? He had to wait until he got a polished Eli Manning in his 4th season to win.

All I need to know about Tomlin is that he has Ben Reothlisberger. Put Roethlisberger on more than half the teams in the league and the head coach will have Tomlin's regular season record, if not better. Six seasons with a future hall of famer in his prime and he's been eliminated in the first round to miserable teams twice and will have missed the playoffs twice. I never expected to be a great team when I knew the season was opening up with Kordell Stewart as the starting QB. I was happy just to see them get into the playoffs. But I do expect to see a lot when Roethlisberger is the QB because once he's gone, chances are we'll be back to average quarterbacks for a very long time. The time to be great and win as a team is NOW.

oh he could run the ball, with incredible run blockers in faneca and hartings and jerome bettis. Well he put up a lackluster passing attack, this isnt the 70s anymore. Handing it off non stop to a 250 pound back is a recipe for losing in this decade. He always had decent x's and o's guys on his staff, but like you see with whisenhunt hes not really a good HC either even if he was good with the play designs. And im not even saying cowher was a bad HC, he was perfect for what the steelers wanted to do but so is tomlin. Its not falling squarley on the shoulders of one guy like it is in philadelphia....HC, playcaller, head scout, and GM are all gonna be gone when reid is gone. and a reason cowher left aside from him being a quitter is he couldnt get that type of power here, theres a checks and balances system here. i would hate if tomlin was the GM.

Cowher will fail if hes given the power he wants and is asked to rebuild a team, but he never had to do that here....i dont get why that confuses you so much. he was a decent head coach but he was surrounded by a lot of people who were good at their jobs too.

oh and coughlin is an x's and o's guy...hes run one of the most if not the most complex offenses in the league, but i wouldnt expect you to know anything about, or maybe you would since your too busy looking for tomlins replacement lol

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:44 PM
I want you to name me the QBs (other than Brady) that the team actually had a chance to get with their draft spot every season, which was never great. Let's see who Cowher passed up. Was he stubborn? Or did he just not have the draft spot where it would've been worth spending on a QB?

Never great?........They drafted 8th overall in 2000 and around the 11-13 range in 1999 ( I can't remember the exact spot in 99).....But Troy Edwards was drafted in 99 and Burress in 2000........I really don't care about what QB's they passed up but the fact remains Cowher stuck with Kordell way to long...How can you ignore that fact?

Its a known fact that Cowher really didn't want Ben...He wanted Shawn Andrews the OG from Arkansas.......

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm curious how old you are. I'm curious if you were alive and consciously aware of the Steelers and their quarterbacks for about two decades. Ben Roethlisberger type quarterbacks come along once in a blue moon. Once he's done, then you'll know why people were complaining about not winning more often while we actually had a young Roethlisberger. Quote me on this, once Roethlisberger is gone, the Steelers will not return to the Superbowl for at least 10 years. Wait and see.

100% Accurate......

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm curious how old you are. I'm curious if you were alive and consciously aware of the Steelers and their quarterbacks for about two decades. Ben Roethlisberger type quarterbacks come along once in a blue moon. Once he's done, then you'll know why people were complaining about not winning more often while we actually had a young Roethlisberger. Quote me on this, once Roethlisberger is gone, the Steelers will not return to the Superbowl for at least 10 years. Wait and see.

That's not the point. I don't understand how having one good position on a team and them not winning every single game and not going to the superbowl every single year has anything to do with a head coach. If you think that having Ben on our team means that we should be winning the superbowl every single year then you are out of your mind. Tomlin has taken Ben to two championships in his pretty short tenure. That ain't too shabby.

I wish some of you would develop some empathy and step into another teams shoes, like the Jaguars or the Browns for instance. Then you'll see how ridiculous it is to be bitching about one less than exceptional season.

K Train
12-10-2012, 02:51 PM
current trends show that there is a much easier transition for QBs from college to pros now...theres no reason to just assume a 30 year drought again, we cant expect to be like the colts and go from manning to luck but the packers went from favre to rodgers, patriots will look from brady to mallet, chargers went from brees to rivers (brees a QB you asked for that the steelers passed on btw)

QB will need to be addressed in the coming years, but thats not the end of the world anymore...keep living in the 70s though, it fits you well

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 02:53 PM
Never great?........They drafted 8th overall in 2000 and around the 11-13 range in 1999 ( I can't remember the exact spot in 99).....But Troy Edwards was drafted in 99 and Burress in 2000........I really don't care about what QB's they passed up but the fact remains Cowher stuck with Kordell way to long...How can you ignore that fact?

Its a known fact that Cowher really didn't want Ben...He wanted Shawn Andrews the OG from Arkansas.......

Cowher actually wanted a QB but Rivers was who he wanted. Maybe it was a North Carolina thing who knows. When he was taken by the Giants he wasn't thrilled about basically drafting the 3rd best QB in the draft so low in the 1st round. So he started looking at Plan B. After some prodding they went with Roethlisberger and the rest was history. Nobody should blame Cowher for having his doubts on the 3rd best QB in the draft when there were so many good players still available to him and no need to settle.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 02:55 PM
oh and coughlin is an x's and o's guy...hes run one of the most if not the most complex offenses in the league, but i wouldnt expect you to know anything about, or maybe you would since your too busy looking for tomlins replacement lol

I do know that he's an x's and o's guy, which was exactly my point: he still couldn't win without a franchise quarterback. So regardless of whether or not Cowher was an x's and o's guy, he still was able to win a Superbowl as soon as he got a franchise quarterback just like Coughlin, who you agree is an x's and o's HC.

Whizenhunt would've won a Superbowl with Reothlisberger just as easily as Tomlin. He almost beat Tomlin with a washed up Warner. That's the point here. Tomlin is only doing what most other coaches int he league would be doing with a quarterback like Roethlisberger. A truly good coach would've done more already. This team should easily be 12-4 every season.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 02:55 PM
Cowher actually wanted a QB but Rivers was who he wanted. Maybe it was a North Carolina thing who knows. When he was taken by the Giants he wasn't thrilled about basically drafting the 3rd best QB in the draft so low in the 1st round. So he started looking at Plan B. After some prodding they went with Roethlisberger and the rest was history. Nobody should blame Cowher for having his doubts on the 3rd best QB in the draft.

Yes I know Cowher wanted Rivers since he was North Carolina State product......But Rivers was shooting up draft boards and Cowher wanted the OG from Arkansas after he realized he was getting Rivers.....Cowher loved his power running game and Andrews fit that bill for the type of OL that Cowher liked......Mr. Rooney stepped in and said to draft Ben....Colbert wanted Ben and Cowher wanted Andrews.......

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 02:58 PM
I do know that he's an x's and o's guy, which was exactly my point: he still couldn't win without a franchise quarterback. So regardless of whether or not Cowher was an x's and o's guy, he still was able to win a Superbowl as soon as he got a franchise quarterback just like Coughlin, who you agree is an x's and o's HC.

Whizenhunt would've won a Superbowl with Reothlisberger just as easily as Tomlin. He almost beat Tomlin with a washed up Warner. That's the point here. Tomlin is only doing what most other coaches int he league would be doing with a quarterback like Roethlisberger. A truly good coach would've done more already. This team should easily be 12-4 every season.

And possible the #1 seed in the AFC right now instead of hoping for other teams to lose so we can get in. There are 4 losses that are totally unacceptable (Browns, Raiders, Chargers and Titans) we should be 11-2 right now if we had a halfway decent coach.

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
This team should easily be 12-4 every season.

And that ladies and gents is the problem with Steelers fans. In the past decade or so, what team has gone 12-4 every season? Besides the Colts because they were freaks of nature.

You're acting like the NFL is all black and white. There's more factors that go into winning besides how good your head coach is or how good your quarterback is..

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 03:00 PM
Tomlin has taken Ben to two championships in his pretty short tenure. That ain't too shabby.

I'm glad you think that "that ain't too shabby." Cowher took Kordell Stewart to the AFC Championship twice. Was that shabby? Like I said, I'm pretty sure you weren't old enough to know what this team went through before Roethlisberger. And you have no idea how hard it is to get a Roethlisberger. You'll find out once his career is over, which will probably be sooner rather than later because in 6 seasons Tomlin has been unable to put together a halfway decent OL.

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 03:01 PM
I'm glad you think that "that ain't too shabby." Cowher took Kordell Stewart to the AFC Championship twice. Was that shabby? Like I said, I'm pretty sure you weren't old enough to know what this team went through before Roethlisberger. And you have no idea how hard it is to get a Roethlisberger. You'll find out once his career is over, which will probably be sooner rather than later because in 6 seasons Tomlin has been unable to put together a halfway decent OL.

I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of my post, which is fine with me. Keep bitching about Tomlin for another 15 seasons or so cause he isn't going anywhere.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm glad you think that "that ain't too shabby." Cowher took Kordell Stewart to the AFC Championship twice. Was that shabby? Like I said, I'm pretty sure you weren't old enough to know what this team went through before Roethlisberger. And you have no idea how hard it is to get a Roethlisberger. You'll find out once his career is over, which will probably be sooner rather than later because in 6 seasons Tomlin has been unable to put together a halfway decent OL.

Why do you keep ignoring the facts that Cowher stuck with Kordell way to long and didn't even want Big Ben?.......

K Train
12-10-2012, 03:02 PM
I do know that he's an x's and o's guy, which was exactly my point: he still couldn't win without a franchise quarterback. So regardless of whether or not Cowher was an x's and o's guy, he still was able to win a Superbowl as soon as he got a franchise quarterback just like Coughlin, who you agree is an x's and o's HC.

Whizenhunt would've won a Superbowl with Reothlisberger just as easily as Tomlin. He almost beat Tomlin with a washed up Warner. That's the point here. Tomlin is only doing what most other coaches int he league would be doing with a quarterback like Roethlisberger. A truly good coach would've done more already. This team should easily be 12-4 every season.

think about everything you just said. now think about the last time the patriots won a superbowl. by your logic the patriots should have 6 superbowl wins this decade at least. great coach, franchise QB, and 12-4 every year yet they havent won a superbowl since what? 03?

they are a competitive team, right in the playoff picture still. having a chance in january is all the matters and they consistently do

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Why do you keep ignoring the facts that Cowher stuck with Kordell way to long and didn't even want Big Ben?.......

Vegas answered your point about Cowher "not wanting Roethlisberger according to rumored reports." It's just not a credible or even useful argument in evaluating Cowher. I'm sure Trueman had reservations about dropping the bombs on Japan, but he did. Cowher took Roethlisberger. There is zero evidence that he had to have his arm twisted by ownership. There was a rumor last week that the Steelers were upset that Roethlisberger didn't play. Was that valid?

And again, you never named who he was supposed to put in instead of Kordell.

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 03:08 PM
Yes I know Cowher wanted Rivers since he was North Carolina State product......But Rivers was shooting up draft boards and Cowher wanted the OG from Arkansas after he realized he was getting Rivers.....Cowher loved his power running game and Andrews fit that bill for the type of OL that Cowher liked......Mr. Rooney stepped in and said to draft Ben....Colbert wanted Ben and Cowher wanted Andrews.......

I gotcha' I was just trying to point out there is more to the story then Cowher wanted Andrews. He wanted a QB but Rivers was his guy. He didn't want to have to settle on Roethlisberger when his heart was set on Rivers.

K Train
12-10-2012, 03:13 PM
Vegas answered your point about Cowher "not wanting Roethlisberger according to rumored reports." It's just not a credible or even useful argument in evaluating Cowher. I'm sure Trueman had reservations about dropping the bombs on Japan, but he did. Cowher took Roethlisberger. There is zero evidence that he had to have his arm twisted by ownership. There was a rumor last week that the Steelers were upset that Roethlisberger didn't play. Was that valid?

And again, you never named who he was supposed to put in instead of Kordell.

cowher didnt have the final say on the drafting that was the beauty of it

also i answered you, drew brees in 01 would have been nice...its all hindsight but hey i love casey hampton. its just silly to say they didnt have a chance at any QBs. brees is just off the top of my head but it was an obvious example

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 03:20 PM
cowher didnt have the final say on the drafting that was the beauty of it

also i answered you, drew brees in 01 would have been nice...its all hindsight but hey i love casey hampton. its just silly to say they didnt have a chance at any QBs. brees is just off the top of my head but it was an obvious example

I'm not so sure about that. Cowher was instrumental in running Donahue out of Pitttsburgh. I find it hard to believe ownership sided with Cowher than turned around and said you know have to listen to Colbert instead.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 03:22 PM
I want you to name me the QBs (other than Brady) that the team actually had a chance to get with their draft spot every season, which was never great. Let's see who Cowher passed up. Was he stubborn? Or did he just not have the draft spot where it would've been worth spending on a QB?

I really wanted Jake Plummer, i think we drafted Chad Scott that year...

And then there was taking Plaxico over Pennington (Pennington would've been perfect game manager for Cowher style ball)

Hampton over Drew Brees...

And of course, he didn't want Big Ben... so

I'm annoyed with Tomlin too... but lets not put Cowher on an undeserved pedestal...

Are we intentionally forgeting Cowher's "game day" coaching in the post season? Do we not remember san diego, indianapolis, new england, denver?

K Train
12-10-2012, 03:24 PM
I really wanted Jake Plummer, i think we drafted Chad Scott that year...

And then there was taking Plaxico over Pennington (Pennington would've been perfect game manager for Cowher style ball)

Hampton over Drew Brees...

And of course, he didn't want Big Ben... so

I'm annoyed with Tomlin too... but lets not put Cowher on an undeserved pedestal...
good call on plummer, pennington had shoulder injuries which was a disaster for his career but he has unreal accuracy and behind that line h emay may have survived so ill give you that one too...it ended up working out though

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:30 PM
Vegas answered your point about Cowher "not wanting Roethlisberger according to rumored reports." It's just not a credible or even useful argument in evaluating Cowher. I'm sure Trueman had reservations about dropping the bombs on Japan, but he did. Cowher took Roethlisberger. There is zero evidence that he had to have his arm twisted by ownership. There was a rumor last week that the Steelers were upset that Roethlisberger didn't play. Was that valid?



And again, you never named who he was supposed to put in instead of Kordell.

Ok so Vegas is right and I'm wrong?....lol It was a known fact that Cowher didn't want Ben....He was in love with Rivers when he knew he had no shot at Rivers he then switched to wanting Shawn Andrews since he was the typical OL for Cowher's power running game....

I didn't list the ****ing QB's since nothing we say matters to you....But Brees was mentioned as was Pennington but so was Marc Bulger available in the 2000 draft....All three would have been better then Kordell.......

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 03:34 PM
cowher didnt have the final say on the drafting that was the beauty of it

also i answered you, drew brees in 01 would have been nice...its all hindsight but hey i love casey hampton. its just silly to say they didnt have a chance at any QBs. brees is just off the top of my head but it was an obvious example

Brees was always considered to small and frail to play a worthy QB position. No one thought he would be what he has become.


I'm not so sure about that. Cowher was instrumental in running Donahue out of Pitttsburgh. I find it hard to believe ownership sided with Cowher than turned around and said you know have to listen to Colbert instead.

I find it very hard to believe as well. The original report always sounded like a typical ESPN-style report meant to drum up drama where there wasn't any.


I really wanted Jake Plummer, i think we drafted Chad Scott that year...

And then there was taking Plaxico over Pennington (Pennington would've been perfect game manager for Cowher style ball)

Hampton over Drew Brees...

And of course, he didn't want Big Ben... so

I'm annoyed with Tomlin too... but lets not put Cowher on an undeserved pedestal...

Are we intentionally forgeting Cowher's "game day" coaching in the post season? Do we not remember san diego, indianapolis, new england, denver?

Scott over Plummer was bad, Burress over Pennington was the right call. You didn't need a good QB if you had a receiver like Burress. First Maddox proved as much with his great season throwing to Burress and Ward and then Manning proved that because he sucked for the first 3 years of his career and yet they still won games because Burress would catch Eli's horrible passes.

I already brought up Cowher's "gameday coaching" in the postseason. You want to blame gameday coaching when it's pretty obvious that QBs like Kordell and O'Donnell don't beat QBs like Bledsoe, Elway and Aikman. There's nothing complicated about it.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:36 PM
Cowher did draft Tee Martin in 2000.....like he did Jim Miller in 95 or 96.....I can't remember the exact year but just saying it doesn't matter who Cowher passed up on the fact remains he stuck with Kordell Stewart way to long and his ego forced Tom Donahoe to step down after the 99 season.....

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 03:38 PM
Ok so Vegas is right and I'm wrong?....lol It was a known fact that Cowher didn't want Ben....He was in love with Rivers when he knew he had no shot at Rivers he then switched to wanting Shawn Andrews since he was the typical OL for Cowher's power running game....

I didn't list the ****ing QB's since nothing we say matters to you....But Brees was mentioned as was Pennington but so was Marc Bulger available in the 2000 draft....All three would have been better then Kordell.......

It's just not worth responding to "Cowher didn't want Roethlisberger." He drafted him. What's the point in talking about how he felt about it, what he wanted, what he ate for breakfast that day, what position he f**ked his wife that night. He drafted Roethlisberger in the draft. That's the end of the story. I don't think there has ever been any admittance from anyone that Cowher was forced to take him. It's just speculation. If Cowher or Rooney admitted it, then I apologize.

K Train
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
Brees was always considered to small and frail to play a worthy QB position. No one thought he would be what he has become.



I find it very hard to believe as well. The original report always sounded like a typical ESPN-style report meant to drum up drama where there wasn't any.



Scott over Plummer was bad, Burress over Pennington was the right call. You didn't need a good QB if you had a receiver like Burress. First Maddox proved as much with his great season throwing to Burress and Ward and then Manning proved that because he sucked for the first 3 years of his career and yet they still won games because Burress would catch Eli's horrible passes.

I already brought up Cowher's "gameday coaching" in the postseason. You want to blame gameday coaching when it's pretty obvious that QBs like Kordell and O'Donnell don't beat QBs like Bledsoe, Elway and Aikman. There's nothing complicated about it.

brees is still considered small and he really grew into the position....but brady was a 6th rounder and for good reason, he was horrible. Brees was definitely in the first round conversation back then though, and while he grew into the position and really his arm (brady had a weak arm too but grew into it as well). while new orleans brees is a different player than SD brees was there was something there as a special passer with unreal accuracy from day one.

packers were incredibly patient with rodgers, almost at a detriment to rodgers but he grew into a master of the position too...he was terrible in spot duty and preseason early in his career. unfortunately for cowher, stewart never progressed like brees and rodgers did.

i think kordell could have been a HOF caliber WR if he stuck there, but stewart and cowher were both too stubborn

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
""Our 6-10 record in 2003 earned us the eleventh pick in the first round of the 2004 NFL draft. During the process of evaluating and grading the college prospects, we looked carefully at the quarterbacks. Our staff had concluded that Eli Manning and Philip Rivers were the most polished of the prospects available, but there also was a big, strong, talented kid at Miami of Ohio named Ben Roethlisberger who intrigued a lot of our scouts. Manning and Rivers both were picked before our turn, and so our people seemed to be focused on Shawn Andrews, a big offensive tackle from Arkansas as our likely number-one pick.

But when our turn came, I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we had passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger. Big Ben, six-foot-five, 240 pounds, was quick, tough, had a great arm, and could think on his feet. He was just what we needed."
- Rooney

Cowher didn't WANT roethlisberger... he had to be convinced by the owner

K Train
12-10-2012, 03:43 PM
It's just not worth responding to "Cowher didn't want Roethlisberger." He drafted him. What's the point in talking about how he felt about it, what he wanted, what he ate for breakfast that day, what position he f**ked his wife that night. He drafted Roethlisberger in the draft. That's the end of the story. I don't think there has ever been any admittance from anyone that Cowher was forced to take him. It's just speculation. If Cowher or Rooney admitted it, then I apologize.
there was evidence that rooney put his foot down on taking roethlisberger, it was said he didnt want to **** up like he did passing on marino in the 80s...kind of just a going with your gut kind of thing

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 03:43 PM
It's just not worth responding to "Cowher didn't want Roethlisberger." He drafted him. What's the point in talking about how he felt about it, what he wanted, what he ate for breakfast that day, what position he f**ked his wife that night. He drafted Roethlisberger in the draft. That's the end of the story. I don't think there has ever been any admittance from anyone that Cowher was forced to take him. It's just speculation. If Cowher or Rooney admitted it, then I apologize.

He was the head coach of the team that drafted him... he had to be convinced by the owner. Rooney made the call on Big Ben.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:44 PM
It's just not worth responding to "Cowher didn't want Roethlisberger." He drafted him. What's the point in talking about how he felt about it, what he wanted, what he ate for breakfast that day, what position he f**ked his wife that night. He drafted Roethlisberger in the draft. That's the end of the story. I don't think there has ever been any admittance from anyone that Cowher was forced to take him. It's just speculation. If Cowher or Rooney admitted it, then I apologize.

Dan Rooney did admit it....lol He was quoted as saying the team always regretted not drafting Dan Marino in 83 and said there wasn't a chance of them doing so again in 2004 with Ben........Plus Ben and Cowher didn't have the greatest relationship.....Just like Ben and Whiz.......I know you have an agenda against Tomlin and that is fine but I just can't agree with you about Cowher.....Bill Cowher was a very good HC no doubt but he had faults and made mistakes.......

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 03:46 PM
Scott over Plummer was bad, Burress over Pennington was the right call. You didn't need a good QB if you had a receiver like Burress. First Maddox proved as much with his great season throwing to Burress and Ward and then Manning proved that because he sucked for the first 3 years of his career and yet they still won games because Burress would catch Eli's horrible passes.

I already brought up Cowher's "gameday coaching" in the postseason. You want to blame gameday coaching when it's pretty obvious that QBs like Kordell and O'Donnell don't beat QBs like Bledsoe, Elway and Aikman. There's nothing complicated about it.

So when Cowher failed, it was because of the QB
And when Ben has failed, it is because of the coaches

got it...

Black@Gold Forever32
12-10-2012, 03:50 PM
He was the head coach of the team that drafted him... he had to be convinced by the owner. Rooney made the call on Big Ben.

Colbert wanted Ben and Cowher wanted Andrews so Rooney made the tiebreaking call so you're right.......The conflict between Cowher and Colbert just proves there was a power struggle between Cowher and Tom Donahoe.....Cowher had a tremendous ego.......

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
Just coach is all I want to say! No fancy talk, just coaching and preparation!

K Train
12-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Colbert wanted Ben and Cowher wanted Andrews so Rooney made the tiebreaking call so you're right.......The conflict between Cowher and Colbert just proves there was a power struggle between Cowher and Tom Donahoe.....Cowher had a tremendous ego.......
which is why someone should put the talent on the field and worry about the contracts and what not and why someone should take the talent and maximize it. Head coach/GM's are nightmares for teams, its just not a good balance.

Troyisabeast_43
12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
Cowher was a Franchise QB away from a few Superbowls....albeit he screwed up a few AFC Championships because of it.....Tomlin is just plain HORRIBLE on Game Day.......Don't be so sure the the Steelers won't let him go this is a different Rooney family as well.....I am not a BA fan but the Rooneys dropped him like a hot potato last season based on fan displeasure as well as Tomlin throwing him under the bus......Now he is leading a far less talented team into the Playoffs.......so who is the Better Coach?????........Tomlin won't be around in a year or two if this trend continues......I dont know if it will be a year or two but I will say this I dont see Tomlin lasting 15 years here like Cowher did at the rate he is going at now. I just dont see it happening...

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:08 PM
I am not a BA fan but the Rooneys dropped him like a hot potato last season based on fan displeasure...

Bullshit. People pissed and moaned nonstop about BA for FIVE YEARS before Art II finally pulled the plug.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Rooneys don't knee-jerk because a bunch of spoiled-*** fans can't handle the Steelers not winning it all every year. That's more Daniel Snyder's and Jerry Jones' speed.

Tomlin's not going anywhere for a while. Deal.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:09 PM
""Our 6-10 record in 2003 earned us the eleventh pick in the first round of the 2004 NFL draft. During the process of evaluating and grading the college prospects, we looked carefully at the quarterbacks. Our staff had concluded that Eli Manning and Philip Rivers were the most polished of the prospects available, but there also was a big, strong, talented kid at Miami of Ohio named Ben Roethlisberger who intrigued a lot of our scouts. Manning and Rivers both were picked before our turn, and so our people seemed to be focused on Shawn Andrews, a big offensive tackle from Arkansas as our likely number-one pick.

But when our turn came, I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we had passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. [/B]After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger.[/B] Big Ben, six-foot-five, 240 pounds, was quick, tough, had a great arm, and could think on his feet. He was just what we needed."
- Rooney

Cowher didn't WANT roethlisberger... he had to be convinced by the owner

To me, it sounds like an owner trying to get in on the credit for the Roethlisberger pick. There is nothing here that indicates that Cowher "did not" want Roethlisberger.

connecticutsteel
12-10-2012, 04:14 PM
nyc Tomlin didn't lose to the chargers the team did did tomlin tell brown to bite on that double move or tell ben to throw a pick they are called mental mistakes and the players are accountable for there mistakes not tomlin 1-1 in the super bowl is a great record considering 97 percent of the coaches don't ever make it there i have been a steelers fan for 43 years but only in the last 10 have i encountered these whiney nowitalls by the way the presidents name was truman just in case you wanted to know

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:16 PM
I dont know if it will be a year or two but I will say this I dont see Tomlin lasting 15 years here like Cowher did at the rate he is going at now. I just dont see it happening...

Well, between 1998-2003, there were THREE losing seasons and FOUR non-playoff seasons, and Cowher still kept his job. He then completely checked out for the entire 2006 season after finally getting over the hump the year before and he still left on his terms at the conclusion of that season. Tomlin hasn't posted a losing record yet, has missed the playoffs a grand total of one time in six years and he has one or two years left, tops?

Don't think so...

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 04:16 PM
Bullshit. People pissed and moaned nonstop about BA for FIVE YEARS before Art II finally pulled the plug.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Rooneys don't knee-jerk because a bunch of spoiled-*** fans can't handle the Steelers not winning it all every year. That's more Daniel Snyder's and Jerry Jones' speed.

Tomlin's not going anywhere for a while. Deal.

Listen pal I have been a Steeler fan for over 53 years I have seen the poor Steeler teams I have seen old Man Rooney dump coaches for the same reasons Tomlin needs to be dropped......ARII won't allow this team to falter due to bad coaching decisions.....If Tomlin doesn't get better control, better game day decisions, better preperation weel in week out, better conditioning to prevent injuries, the axe will fall.......PERIOD......DEAL......

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:17 PM
Dan Rooney did admit it....lol He was quoted as saying the team always regretted not drafting Dan Marino in 83 and said there wasn't a chance of them doing so again in 2004 with Ben........Plus Ben and Cowher didn't have the greatest relationship.....Just like Ben and Whiz.......I know you have an agenda against Tomlin and that is fine but I just can't agree with you about Cowher.....Bill Cowher was a very good HC no doubt but he had faults and made mistakes.......

I don't have an agenda. I just hate Tomlin. I've never made it secret and I've always been very open about it. I think he was hired because of the color of his skin and the associated rule that is named after the owner of the Steelers. I don't think he was ever qualified to be head coach. Not because he's black, but because he just isn't qualified. Put Dungy on this team and they would be 12-4 (11-5 at worst) every season. And they would go deep in the playoffs.

As for Cowher, if he is to be knocked for drafting errors, that's fine. I won't bother arguing about who we should've or could've drafted or try and speculate on who on the team wanted which player. All I know is that with garbage quarterbacks, Cowher did an amazing job. Once he got Roethlisberger, he went to the AFC Championship in his rookie year and won the Superbowl the following year. He got a franchise quarterback and he excelled. Tomlin has remained stagnant for 4 years now.

So when Cowher failed, it was because of the QB
And when Ben has failed, it is because of the coaches

got it...

You're the "Andrew Luck is better than Roethlisberger" guy. Please, enough of you. Go try and count Luck's INTs on two hands.

Speeed
12-10-2012, 04:17 PM
I disagree. We only see him for a few minutes week. That flash of time forms our opinions of him. The players, management, and the Rooney's interact with him on a daily basis. They know much more about him than we do. If they think he is not the man for the job, then they will fire him. If they think he is, and we don't like him, for whatever reason, then the problem is with the Rooneys, no? Maybe the Steelers need new owners?

The fact is the Steelers have been and are competitive under Tomlin. They are making a run for the playoffs once again. This is after a barrage of injuries, a new OC, and missing their franchise QB for three games. Like I said, what we see is perception. We have nothing to base our opinion of the man on. The Steelers will make the playoffs. If they are healthy, they will be SB contenders.




Want Mike Tomlin to be shown the door.

He isn't a gameday coach, just ****ing stands there, claps and doesn't ****ing do much else.

Living off Cowher's reputation.

Wish Cowher stayed on so 2008 was his year and legacy.

Sadly not.

2008 belongs to some **** that should be unemployed.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:18 PM
nyc Tomlin didn't lose to the chargers the team did did tomlin tell brown to bite on that double move o0r tell ben to throw a pick they are called mental mistake and the players are accountable for there mistakes not tomlin 1-1 in the super bowl is a great record considering 97% of the coaches don't ever make it there i have been a steelers fan for 43 years but only in the last 10 have i encountered these whiney nowitalls by the way the presidents name was truman just in case you wanted to know

There's no e in whiney just in case you wanted to know.

K Train
12-10-2012, 04:21 PM
There's no e in whiney just in case you wanted to know.

come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn a grammar correction was what you decided would be the best response?

(I know there is not 19 n's in the word "on")

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:25 PM
come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn a grammar correction was what you decided would be the best response?

(I know there is not 19 n's in the word "on")

It was a sarcastic reply to his grammatical correction at the end of his post in case you didn't read his full post. I have no response to the rest of his trash because all he does is call people on a sports forum whiners and complainers as if people join a sports forum just to sign on and constantly say things like "Steelers are beeeeeeeeeeest!" or "Beat those rat birds!"

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:36 PM
You're the one that spews garbage regarding Tomlin and Cowher. You make up nonsense or omit facts in order to back up your own opinion. How the f##k do you know if Cowher was an x's and o's guy or not? x's and o's seemed fine when it came to the running game. Perhaps the passing game sucked because he had no one to throw the ball. Keep ignoring Bubby Brister, Graham, Maddox, Stewart and O'Donnell and just place the blame on the head coach. Is Coughlin an x's and o's guy? He didn't win with Brunell did he? He had to wait until he got a polished Eli Manning in his 4th season to win.

We talking about the same Coughlin that backed into the playoffs at 9-7 last season and was one more near player-mutiny away from losing his job at one point in 2007? The same Coughlin that went one-and-done in 2008 and missed the playoffs entirely in '09 and '10? That Coughlin?

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:38 PM
I don't have an agenda. I just hate Tomlin. I've never made it secret and I've always been very open about it. I think he was hired because of the color of his skin and the associated rule that is named after the owner of the Steelers.

So, in other words, you DO have an agenda.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:38 PM
We talking about the same Coughlin that backed into the playoffs at 9-7 last season and was one more near player-mutiny away from losing his job at one point in 2007? The same Coughlin that went one-and-done in 2008 and missed the playoffs entirely in '09 and '10? That Coughlin?

Yes, the Coughlin that has won two Superbowls with an overrated Eli Manning, who was good enough for Coughlin to turn into a champion.

That's TWO SUPERBOWLS

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:39 PM
Listen pal I have been a Steeler fan for over 53 years I have seen the poor Steeler teams I have seen old Man Rooney dump coaches for the same reasons Tomlin needs to be dropped......ARII won't allow this team to falter due to bad coaching decisions.....If Tomlin doesn't get better control, better game day decisions, better preperation weel in week out, better conditioning to prevent injuries, the axe will fall.......PERIOD......DEAL......

Really? I figured you were another snot-nosed punk teenager from the "Internet Tuff Guy" routine and acting like a petulant spoiled brat...

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:41 PM
Yes, the Coughlin that has won two Superbowls with an overrated Eli Manning, who was good enough for Coughlin to turn into a champion.

That's TWO SUPERBOWLS

So, in two posts, Manning went from a "polished professional" to "overrated." Got it.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:41 PM
So, in other words, you DO have an agenda.

I don't know what your definition of agenda is, but I was pretty sure it meant to have some form of plan. I have no plan. I just hate Tomlin. I don't plan to hate Tomlin. I just hate him.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:42 PM
So, in two posts, Manning went from a "polished professional" to "overrated." Got it.

Don't misquote me. I never said "polished professional." Have the courtesy to properly quote people before trying to seem smart.

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 04:44 PM
Really? I figured you were another snot-nosed punk teenager from the "Internet Tuff Guy" routine and acting like a petulant spoiled brat...

Wowww E muscle talk....I love a nerd who uses e muscle......must make you feel real good "Intardnet Tuff Guy".......Your probably leading your Fantasy Football League and a Madden Super Bowl winner as well....... DEAL....lol...lol....

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:48 PM
Wowww E muscle talk....I love a nerd who uses e muscle......must make you feel real good "Intardnet Tuff Guy".......Your probably leading your Fantasy Football League and a Madden Super Bowl winner as well....... DEAL....lol...lol....

He's not a nerd. Nerds would never intentionally or unintentionally misquote someone just to make themselves seem smart. He's either an a$$hole or an idiot, but definitely not a nerd.

steelers75
12-10-2012, 04:51 PM
He's not a nerd. Nerds would never intentionally or unintentionally misquote someone just to make themselves seem smart. He's either an a$$hole or an idiot, but definitely not a nerd.

As opposed to being a racist shitstain with his head firmly up his *** like yourself...

K Train
12-10-2012, 04:55 PM
ok chill out, back on topic...good banter doesnt have to turn in to name calling. jesus

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 04:57 PM
As opposed to being a racist shitstain with his head firmly up his *** like yourself...

Again, either an idiot or an a$$hole who doesn't know what a racist is just like you didn't know what an agenda is. Stop following me around on this forum with your Tomlin d**k-sucking mouth. You have 46 posts in over a year and more than half of them are to call me a racist whenever I state the obvious about Tomlin having been hired because he's black.

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 04:59 PM
Now there you go NYC....I had just the right amount of bait out there for Sucker Fishing and you went and Chased the sucker away.....now we will have to bait up all over again.......lol...lol......I am with you on Tomlin so I guess I am a raciest as well.....it has nothing to do with his horrible coaching decisions or the team preparations or poor discipline or poor conditioning or so many more reasons.....it's because we are racists......how disgusting.......

Real Deal Steel
12-10-2012, 05:02 PM
Why does someone have to be a racist if they don't like Tomlin?????? I"m confused????

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 05:20 PM
Shouldn't you be beating off to your Cowher shrine?

Does he actually have a shrine? Or are you thinking of Steelie McBeam?

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 05:22 PM
Wow the fish is out again......let me bait up and see what I can catch.......Tomlin is a product of the Rooney Rule Period........DEAL.......ps how is that fantasy team doing this week 75 Lurker ??????

K Train
12-10-2012, 05:24 PM
there was a good discussion going but now its just flaming each other....i deleted a bunch of posts, if you guys wanna call each other dick sucking jerking off racists doing it in PMs

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 05:25 PM
And for you info Latrobe....I am 66 yrs old and still stroke my Steelie McBeam, just not as much as before......:yellowthumb:

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 05:31 PM
And for you info Latrobe....I am 66 yrs old and still stroke my Steelie McBeam, just not as much as before......:yellowthumb:

Congrats to you my man, at that age I'm surprised that SOB still works, that's awesome... lol now lets get back on track...

LatrobePA
12-10-2012, 05:31 PM
i deleted a bunch of posts, if you guys wanna call each other dick sucking jerking off racists doing it in PMs

Lmao!

FlatsSteeler
12-10-2012, 05:51 PM
Ok back on track.......Somebody said Tomlin Should be replaced as HC Some agreed some didn't...one of those that didn't called the ones that did Raciest........Tomlin sucks as a NFL Head Coach always did always will he rode the Cowher teams to his victories and now this team is his.....it's all on him now....time will tell I am betting we have seen the best of the Tomlin era....I am hoping for a major re-tooling of the Steelers while BR7 still has a few seasons left, the current team won't cut it......What good is making the Playoffs as a #6 WC team and getting stomped in Denver or New England.......

Clevelandsux
12-10-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm not saying fire Tomlin yet. But I'm losing faith in him.I'm tired of seeing ther same mistakes made week after week. This team is unprepared, undisciplined, keep losing losing to ****** teams, poor clock management.Yesterday they flat out did not show up.And i am sick of it!!!

As far as Cowher, he revived Steelers football. If you remember from 1980-91 this team only made the playoffs 4 times. I liked Cowher but i would not want him back.I think his last season, he was lost. Quit? I don't know. But I believe he stepped down because of his wifes health. I think he should have ridden off in the sunset after sb XL with Bettis.

I just think you might be seeing the real Mike tomlin. The players leftover from the Cowher era are aging. And its showing. They are a mediocre team right now.Our drafts in recent years haven't been steller. Woodley and timmons are descent. Mendenhall is a waste, so was Limas Sweed.As a fan my expectations are playoffs. I know we cant win the SB every year, but at least want a team contending. Guess that makes me greedy.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 06:37 PM
I dont know if it will be a year or two but I will say this I dont see Tomlin lasting 15 years here like Cowher did at the rate he is going at now. I just dont see it happening...

Cowher first 6 years :
Reg Season
64 W 32 L
Playoffs
5 W 6 L
1 Super Bowl Loss

Tomlin first 6 years :
Reg Season
62 W 31L (3 GAMES REMAINING)
Playoffs
5 W 3 L
1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss

Interesting note... Cowher survived non playoff years in seasons 7, 8, 9

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 06:43 PM
I don't have an agenda. I just hate Tomlin. I've never made it secret and I've always been very open about it. I think he was hired because of the color of his skin and the associated rule that is named after the owner of the Steelers. I don't think he was ever qualified to be head coach. Not because he's black, but because he just isn't qualified. Put Dungy on this team and they would be 12-4 (11-5 at worst) every season. And they would go deep in the playoffs.

As for Cowher, if he is to be knocked for drafting errors, that's fine. I won't bother arguing about who we should've or could've drafted or try and speculate on who on the team wanted which player. All I know is that with garbage quarterbacks, Cowher did an amazing job. Once he got Roethlisberger, he went to the AFC Championship in his rookie year and won the Superbowl the following year. He got a franchise quarterback and he excelled. Tomlin has remained stagnant for 4 years now.

You're the "Andrew Luck is better than Roethlisberger" guy. Please, enough of you. Go try and count Luck's INTs on two hands.

And you're the, "I'm not a racist, i just hate that we hired a coach because of the color of his skin" guy... You know you're a racist, when even going to 2 super bowls isn't enough to end your hatred. You can be a rational critic of Tomlin. Instead, you're a hater.

I don't think Tomlin is a great coach (i think such a thing is few and far between), but you could do A LOT worse... we could've hired Whisenhunt or Grimm. lol

ps. I'm the "Luck is more TALENTED than Roethlisberger" guy... also known as the "able to evaluate talent" guy.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 06:47 PM
It was a sarcastic reply to his grammatical correction at the end of his post in case you didn't read his full post. I have no response to the rest of his trash because all he does is call people on a sports forum whiners and complainers as if people join a sports forum just to sign on and constantly say things like "Steelers are beeeeeeeeeeest!" or "Beat those rat birds!"

"Cowher is the best!"
"Roethlisberger is the best!"
"Tomlin sucks!!!"

steelers75
12-10-2012, 06:48 PM
"Cowher is the best!"
"Roethlisberger is the best!"
"Tomlin sucks!!!"

Pretty much.

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 06:57 PM
Cowher first 6 years :
Reg Season
64 W 32 L
Playoffs
5 W 6 L
1 Super Bowl Loss

Tomlin first 6 years :
Reg Season
62 W 31L (3 GAMES REMAINING)
Playoffs
5 W 3 L
1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss

Interesting note... Cowher survived non playoff years in seasons 7, 8, 9

Cowhers first 15 years.

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomzcak
Kent Graham
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Tomlin first 6 years
Roethlisberger.


Cowher's record speaks for itself when you factor in the turds he had behind center. Tomlin has had the luxury of a franchise QB his whole 6 years on the job.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 06:58 PM
If you LOVE this coach:
Cowher first 6 years :
Reg Season
64 W 32 L
Playoffs
5 W 6 L
1 Super Bowl Loss

and you HATE this coach
Tomlin first 6 years :
Reg Season
62 W 31L (3 GAMES REMAINING)
Playoffs
5 W 3 L
1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss

It's probably because you're a racist... lol

Don't bother making the "roster" excuse... the "franchise QB" excuse... or any variation of not understanding that Cowher had the dominant critical pieces of his era (RB, Oline, Defense) and Tomlin has had the critical pieces of his era (Franchise QB)...

We should be critical of Tomlin for dumb *** **** like yesterdays 2 pt conversion debacle. But he's not a terrible coach. Terrible coaches don't go to 2 super bowls in 5 years... they just don't.

If you think Tomlin is just awful... you are factually incorrect. There are only 2 things that could lead you to such an factually incorrect position:
1. You're dumb as rocks
or
2. You hate black people

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Cowhers first 15 years.

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomzcak
Kent Graham
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Tomlin first 6 years
Roethlisberger.


Cowher's record speaks for itself when you factor in the turds he had behind center. Tomlin has had the luxury of a franchise QB his whole 6 years on the job.

Odonnel, Kordel, Maddox... weren't turds for their time.

Comparing those eras as if Franchise QB was a big deal in the early 90s is a wildly inaccurate way of looking at things. Teams went to the super bowl in the 90s with guys like Stan Humphries, Mark Rypien, Chris Chandler, Neil Odonnel, etc

You can't consistently win in the NFL today, without a franchise QB... but in the 90s, you couldn't win without a running game, and a very good defense.

Cowher had what was needed in his era
Tomlin has what is needed today

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:03 PM
Odonnel, Kordel, Maddox... weren't turds for their time.

Comparing those eras as if Franchise QB was a big deal in the early 90s is a wildly inaccurate way of looking at things.

Exactly. The early 90s were when Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler were winning Super Bowls.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 07:06 PM
If you LOVE this coach:
Cowher first 6 years :
Reg Season
64 W 32 L
Playoffs
5 W 6 L
1 Super Bowl Loss

and you HATE this coach
Tomlin first 6 years :
Reg Season
62 W 31L (3 GAMES REMAINING)
Playoffs
5 W 3 L
1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss

It's probably because you're a racist... lol

Don't bother making the "roster" excuse... the "franchise QB" excuse... or any variation of not understanding that Cowher had the dominant critical pieces of his era (RB, Oline, Defense) and Tomlin has had the critical pieces of his era (Franchise QB)...

We should be critical of Tomlin for dumb *** **** like yesterdays 2 pt conversion debacle. But he's not a terrible coach. Terrible coaches don't go to 2 super bowls in 5 years... they just don't.

If you think Tomlin is just awful... you are factually incorrect. There are only 2 things that could lead you to such an factually incorrect position:
1. You're dumb as rocks
2. You hate black people

Your ad hoc argument is pathetic. "Whoever doesn't like Tomlin is a racist." Shut up and go onto an Al Sharpton forum and be a self-hating white fool there. They'll love you. Also tell them what a great talent scout you are and how you know that Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 07:07 PM
Your ad hoc argument is pathetic. "Whoever doesn't like Tomlin is a racist." Shut up and go onto an Al Sharpton forum and be a self-hating white fool there. They'll love you. Also tell them what a great talent scout you are and how you know that Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger.

comments like these make it more and more obvious. embrace your hate. Does it bother you that you have to pretend to be something you're not?

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Cowhers first 15 years.

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomzcak
Kent Graham
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Tomlin first 6 years
Roethlisberger.


Cowher's record speaks for itself when you factor in the turds he had behind center. Tomlin has had the luxury of a franchise QB his whole 6 years on the job.

Cool story, bro. You realize it's a team game, right?

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Exactly. The early 90s were when Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler were winning Super Bowls.

Mixed in with Aikman, Young, Montana, Favre and Elway. You name the two non-hall of fame quarterbacks out of 10 Superbowls in the 90s. Nice try.

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 07:13 PM
If you LOVE this coach:
Cowher first 6 years :
Reg Season
64 W 32 L
Playoffs
5 W 6 L
1 Super Bowl Loss

and you HATE this coach
Tomlin first 6 years :
Reg Season
62 W 31L (3 GAMES REMAINING)
Playoffs
5 W 3 L
1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss

It's probably because you're a racist... lol

Don't bother making the "roster" excuse... the "franchise QB" excuse... or any variation of not understanding that Cowher had the dominant critical pieces of his era (RB, Oline, Defense) and Tomlin has had the critical pieces of his era (Franchise QB)...

We should be critical of Tomlin for dumb *** **** like yesterdays 2 pt conversion debacle. But he's not a terrible coach. Terrible coaches don't go to 2 super bowls in 5 years... they just don't.

If you think Tomlin is just awful... you are factually incorrect. There are only 2 things that could lead you to such an factually incorrect position:
1. You're dumb as rocks
or
2. You hate black people

Does Switzer and Seifert ring a bell? Remember those guys who inherited teams from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Walsh. One question where are they now? For Super Bowl winning coaches they just kinda fell off the face of the earth. Kinda weird, don't you think?
Winning a Super Bowl is a lot harder building a team from scratch than inheriting one like Tomlin, Switzer and Seifert did. So Tomlin's two Super Bowl appearance's really don't do it for me when Cowher could have done the same exact thing if he would have stayed. Hell, even Whisenhunt probably would have taken us to the Super Bowl twice too.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 07:14 PM
Cowhers first 15 years.

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomzcak
Kent Graham
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Tomlin first 6 years
Roethlisberger.


Cowher's record speaks for itself when you factor in the turds he had behind center. Tomlin has had the luxury of a franchise QB his whole 6 years on the job.

Exactly right. Just imagine Tomlin with an average quarterback. He wouldn't even win 5 games in a season.

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:17 PM
Exactly right. Just imagine Tomlin with an average quarterback. He wouldn't even win 5 games in a season.

You mean like 2010, when he started 3-1 with Batch, Leftwich and Dixon?

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 07:18 PM
comments like these make it more and more obvious. embrace your hate. Does it bother you that you have to pretend to be something you're not?

I hate Tomlin because he's unqualified and was hired because he's black. All my feeling are out in the open. How about you? How does it feel pretending to be a racially tolerant just because you like a black head coach? Does that help you with your white guilt?

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Does Switzer and Seifert ring a bell? Remember those guys who inherited teams from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Walsh. One question where are they now? For Super Bowl winning coaches they just kinda fell off the face of the earth. Kinda weird, don't you think?
Winning a Super Bowl is a lot harder building a team from scratch than inheriting one like Tomlin, Switzer and Seifert did. So Tomlin's two Super Bowl appearance's really don't do it for me when Cowher could have done the same exact thing if he would have stayed. Hell, even Whisenhunt probably would have taken us to the Super Bowl twice too.

Lake, Lloyd, Woodson, Nickerson, Foster, Dawson - all Noll draftees. So how much credit does Cowher really get for "building them from scratch?"

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 07:38 PM
Lake, Lloyd, Woodson, Nickerson, Foster, Dawson - all Noll draftees. So how much credit does Cowher really get for "building them from scratch?"

That's your argument? Did the Steelers go to the Super Bowl and win it in 1990 under Noll prior to Cowher taking over in 1992? They sure as **** went two years prior to Tomlin taking over in 2007. As a matter of fact the 80's were pretty miserable time to be a Steeler fan so when Cowher took over nobody had any Super Bowl expectations for this team. In two short years he had us in the AFC Championship game which was pretty amazing. When Tomlin went to the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl it wasn't a big surprise because we were supposed to be there. It would have been a crime if we weren't with the players we had assembled.

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 07:42 PM
I hate Tomlin because he's unqualified and was hired because he's black. All my feeling are out in the open. How about you? How does it feel pretending to be a racially tolerant just because you like a black head coach? Does that help you with your white guilt?

I'm with you NYC. No how, no way were the Rooney's not going to hire a black head coach after pushing so hard to get more black head coaches into the league. This was clearly a hire based on skin color. If that makes me a racist then so be it but there is no denying the facts on this one. Mike "****ing" Tomlin is all we had to chose from for one of the most prestigious head coaching jobs in all of sports? Get real. I'm not buying any of that ****.

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
That's your argument? Did the Steelers go to the Super Bowl and win it in 1990 under Noll prior to Cowher taking over in 1992? They sure as **** went two years prior to Tomlin taking over in 2007. As a matter of fact the 80's were pretty miserable time to be a Steeler fan so when Cowher took over nobody had any Super Bowl expectations for this team. In two short years he had us in the AFC Championship game which was pretty amazing. When Tomlin went to the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl it wasn't a big surprise because we were supposed to be there. It would have been a crime if we weren't with the players we had assembled.

The fact remains that a good chunk of that "amazing" 1994 Cowher team was assembled by Noll. Likewise, are you really going to hang your hat on SB XL? It was a horribly played game which pretty much anybody except a Steelers fan looks at as being given to the Steelers by the damn refs.

steelers75
12-10-2012, 07:55 PM
I'm with you NYC. No how, no way were the Rooney's not going to hire a black head coach after pushing so hard to get more black head coaches into the league. This was clearly a hire based on skin color. If that makes me a racist then so be it but there is no denying the facts on this one. Mike "****ing" Tomlin is all we had to chose from for one of the most prestigious head coaching jobs in all of sports? Get real. I'm not buying any of that ****.

Please. What exactly were Noll and Cowher's "great pedigrees" before they were hired by the Steelers? Newsflash: nobody knew who the hell they were either.

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 07:59 PM
I'm confused as to where this "hiring him because he's black" information is coming from. Were you in the room with the Rooneys? Did they say, "hey, I bet if we hire this black guy there will be a rule named after us. We don't even care if he isn't qualified."

Doesn't seem very Rooney like to me...

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:02 PM
I'm with you NYC. No how, no way were the Rooney's not going to hire a black head coach after pushing so hard to get more black head coaches into the league. This was clearly a hire based on skin color. If that makes me a racist then so be it but there is no denying the facts on this one. Mike "****ing" Tomlin is all we had to chose from for one of the most prestigious head coaching jobs in all of sports? Get real. I'm not buying any of that ****.

Exactly right. The writing is on the wall for anyone to read. I guess white guilt supersedes reason.

Big T
12-10-2012, 08:08 PM
I hate Tomlin because he's unqualified and was hired because he's black. All my feeling are out in the open. How about you? How does it feel pretending to be a racially tolerant just because you like a black head coach? Does that help you with your white guilt?

Your ignorance is showing. Stop acting like the Rooney Rule makes it so you have to hire a black coach. The Rooney Rule required teams to at least interview a minority candidate. There's nothing that says you have to hire them.

And Tomlin was a relatively hot name when he was hired. He was from the Dungy coaching tree and was the defensive coordinator of a top 10 Vikings defense in 2006 (ranked higher than Pittsburgh in total defense and number 1 against the run)...

Stop acting like they gave a handout to the poor little black assistant coach at Johns Hopkins University.

steelers75
12-10-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm confused as to where this "hiring him because he's black" information is coming from. Were you in the room with the Rooneys? Did they say, "hey, I bet if we hire this black guy there will be a rule named after us. We don't even care if he isn't qualified."

Doesn't seem very Rooney like to me...

No, they willingly went with someone they knew to be a lesser-qualified candidate and essentially mortgaged years (possibly decade(s), considering how long they hold on to coaches) of the team's future simply to prove a point. Completely logical.

/sarcasm

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 08:19 PM
Your ignorance is showing.

It's been showing for a while now :rolleyes:

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:20 PM
Your ignorance is showing. Stop acting like the Rooney Rule makes it so you have to hire a black coach. The Rooney Rule required teams to at least interview a minority candidate. There's nothing that says you have to hire them.

And Tomlin was a relatively hot name when he was hired. He was from the Dungy coaching tree and was the defensive coordinator of a top 10 Vikings defense in 2006 (ranked higher than Pittsburgh in total defense and number 1 against the run)...

Stop acting like they gave a handout to the poor little black assistant coach at Johns Hopkins University.

Except the rule is named after the owner. It's not a random rule. Rooney was the chairman of the committee investigating the reason behind the lack of black head coaches in the NFL. He made a fuss about the situation. He would've looked like a complete hypocrite not hiring a black head coach when the Steelers finally had a vacancy following the passing of the rule. Especially since Tomlin was a "hot name." It wasn't a handout to Tomlin, it was a statement by Rooney.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:21 PM
It's been showing for a while now :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, you're a smart fan. Calling people idiots when they dared to question your idiotic notion that Mike Wallace is a #1 receiver after one good season.

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 08:24 PM
I'm sorry, you're a smart fan. Calling people idiots when they dared to question your idiotic notion that Mike Wallace is a #1 receiver after one good season.

Yeah I was obviously the only one that thought Wallace could be a #1 receiver after he had over 1,200 pass yards and 10 TDs in his second year in the NFL. Silly me.

Also, I'm not recalling saying that anyone was an idiot. Maybe you would refresh my memory with some evidence perhaps....

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
Yeah I was obviously the only one that thought Wallace could be a #1 receiver after he had over 1,200 pass yards and 10 TDs in his second year in the NFL. Silly me.

Also, I'm not recalling saying that anyone was an idiot. Maybe you would refresh my memory with some evidence perhaps....

It was in a game day thread. Too many pages to look through. that's exactly the point, you evaluated him after one full season. Kind of like the moron on here who says Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger based on 13 regular season games and his college career.

Speeed
12-10-2012, 08:32 PM
This discussion is silly. Just because someone does not like Tomlin does not make them dumb or racist. Just because Tomlin is black is why these accusations are flying. That always happens. How do we know the ones who want him gone are white and not black? Oh yeah, we assume that because a black person would not want him gone, right? Oh, is that racist to say that? Is it racist to think that?

I myself, a middle class white male thinks Tomlin is great. He weaknesses are clock management, burning timeouts, making stupid comments to the press on occasion, and allowing crap teams to beat them on a regular basis, especially as of late. If this trend continues for another year, with teams like the Browns, Raiders and Titans beating us next year, I say it might be time to start looking for a new HC the following year. In the meantime, I behind him all the way.

steelersbabex25
12-10-2012, 08:34 PM
It was in a game day thread. Too many pages to look through. that's exactly the point, you evaluated him after one full season. Kind of like the moron on here who says Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger based on 13 regular season games and his college career.

For the record he also had 1,200 yards and 8 touchdowns the next year. And is on pace to break 1,000 yards and most likely 10 TDs this year as well. I'm not a fan of Wallace just because at times he does seem like he doesn't try as hard as he could and he's a whiny little bitch a lot of the time, but saying he isn't an asset to this team is ludicrous.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Does Switzer and Seifert ring a bell? Remember those guys who inherited teams from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Walsh. One question where are they now? For Super Bowl winning coaches they just kinda fell off the face of the earth. Kinda weird, don't you think?
Winning a Super Bowl is a lot harder building a team from scratch than inheriting one like Tomlin, Switzer and Seifert did. So Tomlin's two Super Bowl appearance's really don't do it for me when Cowher could have done the same exact thing if he would have stayed. Hell, even Whisenhunt probably would have taken us to the Super Bowl twice too.

You mean like when he went 8-8 and missed the playoffs in his last season?
oh wait... im sure you have an excuse for that.

Your bias is endlessly entertaining...

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:35 PM
This discussion is silly. Just because someone does not like Tomlin does not make them dumb or racist. Just because Tomlin is black is why these accusations are flying. That always happens. How do we know the ones who want him gone are white and not black? Oh yeah, we assume that because a black person would not want him gone, right? Oh, is that racist to say that? Is it racist to think that?

I myself, a middle class white male thinks Tomlin is great. He weaknesses are clock management, burning timeouts, making stupid comments to the press on occasion, and allowing crap teams to beat them on a regular basis, especially as of late. If this trend continues for another year, with teams like the Browns, Raiders and Titans beating us next year, I say it might be time to start looking for a new HC the following year. In the meantime, I behind him all the way.

excellent post.


For the record he also had 1,200 yards and 8 touchdowns the next year. And is on pace to break 1,000 yards and most likely 10 TDs this year as well. I'm not a fan of Wallace just because at times he does seem like he doesn't try as hard as he could and he's a whiny little bitch a lot of the time, but saying he isn't an asset to this team is ludicrous.

He's an asset, but not worth #1 receiver money.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:36 PM
3-1 in 2010 with backups...

keep going!

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:37 PM
You mean like when he went 8-8 and missed the playoffs in his last season?
oh wait... im sure you have an excuse for that.

Your bias is endlessly entertaining...

Your bias is moronic. His quarterback was a walking injury the entire season. You're not that stupid, so why do you make pretend you don't remember Roethlisberger being out 4 games due to an emergency appendectomy and starting off the season **** poor due to the motorcycle accident.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:39 PM
I hate Tomlin because he's unqualified and was hired because he's black. All my feeling are out in the open. How about you? How does it feel pretending to be a racially tolerant just because you like a black head coach? Does that help you with your white guilt?

No you hate tomlin because he IS black. You think he's unqualified because he's black.
Just admit you're a racist... You know it... we know it.

There is plenty to be critical of Tomlin for. Mistakes he makes (50 yd Tennessee FG)... bad decisions in managing clock... etc. But you hate a successful coach because he's black and he was an "affirmitive action" hire...

Just admit it... it's the internet, no one cares that you're a racist.

Big T
12-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Your bias is moronic. His quarterback was a walking injury the entire season. You're not that stupid, so why do you make pretend you don't remember Roethlisberger being out 4 games due to an emergency appendectomy and starting off the season **** poor due to the motorcycle accident.

So why are you pretending that Roethlisberger wasn't just out for nearly 4 games with an injury that he just got back from?

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:46 PM
No you hate tomlin because he IS black. You think he's unqualified because he's black.
Just admit you're a racist... You know it... we know it.

There is plenty to be critical of Tomlin for. Mistakes he makes (50 yd Tennessee FG)... bad decisions in managing clock... etc. But you hate a successful coach because he's black and he was an "affirmitive action" hire...

Just admit it... it's the internet, no one cares that you're a racist.

You want to suck Tomlin and Luck's d**ks because ESPN told you they're good. Just admit it. It's the internet.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:49 PM
So why are you pretending that Roethlisberger wasn't just out for nearly 4 games with an injury that he just got back from?

Because we had already lost to Oakland, Tennessee and the Browns in disgusting fashion. I can care less about the Chargers loss in the grand scheme of the season. The team should've been 9-3 or 8-4 at worst going into the game yesterday.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:50 PM
Your bias is moronic. His quarterback was a walking injury the entire season. You're not that stupid, so why do you make pretend you don't remember Roethlisberger being out 4 games due to an emergency appendectomy and starting off the season **** poor due to the motorcycle accident.


He was out for 4 games in 2010, and Tomlin took them to the super bowl

you have no consistent argument, only hate

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:52 PM
Because we had already lost to Oakland, Tennessee and the Browns in disgusting fashion. I can care less about the Chargers loss in the grand scheme of the season. The team should've been 9-3 or 8-4 at worst going into the game yesterday.

That's why they play the games... from a where to place the most blame. I blame Tomlin for the Tennessee loss... but the Oakland loss is on Lebeau, and the Browns loss is on turnovers.

You want to blame losses on Tomlin, but you dont reward him in the slightest for the winning

If they win... it's because Tomlin has Ben Roethlisberger or Cowher's team or some other reason
If they lose... it's because Tomlin sucks... what happened to all the "great" pieces he has?

Tomlin a solid coach. Football people know this.

NYCsteelersfan
12-10-2012, 08:58 PM
Tomlin a solid coach. Football people know this.

Idiots and homers think that. He lives and dies by Roethlisberger. If Roethlisberger plays great, he wins. If Roethlisberger plays average or poorly, he loses. It's obvious and simple.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 08:59 PM
It was in a game day thread. Too many pages to look through. that's exactly the point, you evaluated him after one full season. Kind of like the moron on here who says Luck is more talented than Roethlisberger based on 13 regular season games and his college career.

That's Me!

It's really quite easy. I can tell you that Matt Barkley is more talented then Mark Sanchez.

It's really no different... but you DO have to watch them play. And you admitted you have not watched Luck play. Which makes you the one getting laughed at.

Big T
12-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Idiots and homers think that. He lives and dies by Roethlisberger. If Roethlisberger plays great, he wins. If Roethlisberger plays average or poorly, he loses. It's obvious and simple.

Roethlisberger played a fantastic football game in Oakland...

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Idiots and homers think that. He lives and dies by Roethlisberger. If Roethlisberger plays great, he wins. If Roethlisberger plays average or poorly, he loses. It's obvious and simple.


What's Tomlin's record without Roethlisberger? Off the top of my head I'm going with 4-4?

I think your statement would apply to most teams... I mean, Brady played average or poorly and the Patriots lost 2 super bowls. Peyton played "average or poorly" vs new orleans... they lose the super bowl

scudmissile29
12-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Odonnel, Kordel, Maddox... weren't turds for their time.

Comparing those eras as if Franchise QB was a big deal in the early 90s is a wildly inaccurate way of looking at things. Teams went to the super bowl in the 90s with guys like Stan Humphries, Mark Rypien, Chris Chandler, Neil Odonnel, etc

You can't consistently win in the NFL today, without a franchise QB... but in the 90s, you couldn't win without a running game, and a very good defense.

Cowher had what was needed in his era
Tomlin has what is needed today

someone ban this guy.

steelchamp204
12-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Idiots and homers think that. He lives and dies by Roethlisberger. If Roethlisberger plays great, he wins. If Roethlisberger plays average or poorly, he loses. It's obvious and simple.

I think the team has done ok without Ben being in due to injury, did you just forget about Batch beating the Ravens in bmore lastweek coming into it I think the Ravens won 15 straight at there place.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 09:53 PM
someone ban this guy.

aren't you the guy who points out the "cryers" when they ask for you to be banned?

lol... what a clown

Stone
12-10-2012, 09:55 PM
That's Me!

It's really quite easy. I can tell you that Matt Barkley is more talented then Mark Sanchez.

It's really no different... but you DO have to watch them play. And you admitted you have not watched Luck play. Which makes you the one getting laughed at.

Seriously? You think Luck is better than Ben? That's foolish. I am a huge Steeler fan but I am not a homer.

If Ben had a solid OC for his entire career he could potentially be talked about as the best ever.

His stats are great as it is and this is his first year with an OC who "may" have a clue. No QB in the history of the game has been better at doing what it takes to win. Failing to see this would be hard work.

Big T
12-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Luck may end up better than Roethlisberger, who knows? But saying he's better now is absolutely foolish (and I'm a big fan of Andrew Luck).

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 10:03 PM
Seriously? You think Luck is better than Ben? That's foolish. I am a huge Steeler fan but I am not a homer.

If Ben had a solid OC for his entire career he could potentially be talked about as the best ever.

His stats are great as it is and this is his first year with an OC who "may" have a clue. No QB in the history of the game has been better at doing what it takes to win. Failing to see this would be hard work.

I think Luck is more talented, yes.

Better? Not yet... but very very soon, yes Luck will be better.

Ben is a great QB. One of the best (top 5) of his era. But the "Best all time at doing what it takes to win?"... Sorry, that's a bit too arbitrary a comment for me. What makes Ben better then Peyton at doing what it takes to win. Usually, it takes scoring more points, and Ben has never been a prolific offense force...

What Luck is doing in Arians offense...as a rookie, vs what Ben did with experience in that offense... it's not even close. The Colts have a top 10 passing attack...

The Colts are scoring 22.5 pts per game with a rookie QB in Arians offense
The Steelers scored 20.3 pts per game with a veteran franchise QB in Arians offense last year


You do understand the difference between talent and production right?

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 10:05 PM
Luck may end up better than Roethlisberger, who knows? But saying he's better now is absolutely foolish (and I'm a big fan of Andrew Luck).

He's more talented.

(which is what i said in response to the "i don't understand why the Colts are so successful with Arians, when the Steelers weren't- even though I admit I have not watched Luck play this year... that can't be the reason" thread)

Big T
12-10-2012, 10:08 PM
He's more talented.

(which is what i said in response to the "i don't understand why the Colts are so successful with Arians, when the Steelers weren't- even though I admit I have not watched Luck play this year... that can't be the reason" thread)

I'm not even sure he's more talented than Ben. I will say though that he's smarter and extremely meticulous, just like the guy he replaced. And he's definitely got a better wok ethic than Ben had at the same point in his career.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm not even sure he's more talented than Ben. I will say though that he's smarter and extremely meticulous, just like the guy he replaced. And he's definitely got a better wok ethic than Ben had at the same point in his career.

I'm sure... from a talent observation (collection of skills, nature of those skills).... it's not even close. From my perspective, and this was before the draft, there wasn't a single QB skill that Andrew Luck didn't have in his arsenal and possess an elite foundation in. After nearly a full season... I have no doubt that he will be the elite franchise QB of his generation.

Its no different then knowing from day 1 that Peyton was more talented than Favre, and it was only a matter of a few years before it would be obvious to everyone.

Danger DANJ
12-10-2012, 10:30 PM
A lot of teams win and lose with their best players. People blame coaches way too much for losses, including Tomlin. He drives me nuts at times like everyone else but he is a decent coach and better than any other options I can think of.

It's funny how people blame Tomlin for losses that were caused by **** poor play but don't give Tomlin credit for wins.

Comparing teams of the past to teams of the present and trying to predict what coaches or players would do then compared to now is just ridiculous. There is absolutely no way to predict it.

As for the Rooney rule, there is a chance Tomlin was hired because he is black, but nobody knows that for sure. All we know is that he was interviewed because he is black. It's certainly more than possible that he was hired because he was considered the best candidate.

Big T
12-10-2012, 10:31 PM
I'm sure... from a talent observation (collection of skills, nature of those skills).... it's not even close. From my perspective, and this was before the draft, there wasn't a single QB skill that Andrew Luck didn't have in his arsenal and possess an elite foundation in. After nearly a full season... I have no doubt that he will be the elite franchise QB of his generation.

Its no different then knowing from day 1 that Peyton was more talented than Favre, and it was only a matter of a few years before it would be obvious to everyone.

Trust me. I feel the same way. Luck will be an Elite QB. I'm just not ready to put him in that category yet.

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 10:35 PM
Your ignorance is showing. Stop acting like the Rooney Rule makes it so you have to hire a black coach. The Rooney Rule required teams to at least interview a minority candidate. There's nothing that says you have to hire them.

And Tomlin was a relatively hot name when he was hired. He was from the Dungy coaching tree and was the defensive coordinator of a top 10 Vikings defense in 2006 (ranked higher than Pittsburgh in total defense and number 1 against the run)...

Stop acting like they gave a handout to the poor little black assistant coach at Johns Hopkins University.

He was #1 against the run because everyone was passing all over his ***. Why run when I can kill you threw the air? I hope the Rooney's were smart enough to see through that phony stat. He was something like 31st against the pass and #1 run. That's the whole story right there nothing to do with coaching. As for this Dungy tree who is plucking from it. What the **** has anyone done with Dungy. You mean that same guy that had Manning for all those years plus couldn't take Tampa to the dance which Grudin did the very next year?

NeilPatrickBanana
12-10-2012, 10:43 PM
He was #1 against the run because everyone was passing all over his ***. Why run when I can kill you threw the air? I hope the Rooney's were smart enough to see through that phony stat. He was something like 31st against the pass and #1 run. That's the whole story right there nothing to do with coaching. As for this Dungy tree who is plucking from it. What the **** has anyone done with Dungy. You mean that same guy that had Manning for all those years plus couldn't take Tampa to the dance which Grudin did the very next year?

funny... since in the Tomlin/Cowher scenario, you would say Gruden won with the team Dungy built.

no consistency... well aside from the consistent, "if you're black... your successes belong to the white guy" lol

LASVEGASGUY
12-10-2012, 11:21 PM
funny... since in the Tomlin/Cowher scenario, you would say Gruden won with the team Dungy built.

no consistency... well aside from the consistent, "if you're black... your successes belong to the white guy" lol

I don't think anyone will argue that Gruden won with Dungy's team. See the difference is Dungy couldn't win with his own team that is why he was let go and Gruden brought in. Then he inherited Manning and should have won countless Super Bowls instead he only won one. So Dungy is not this great freaking coach you make him out to be.

In Chuckies defense he did build up the Raiders who he faced as coach of the Bucs the next year.

Clevelandsux
12-10-2012, 11:44 PM
I don't think anyone will argue that Gruden won with Dungy's team. See the difference is Dungy couldn't win with his own team that is why he was let go and Gruden brought in. Then he inherited Manning and should have won countless Super Bowls instead he only won one. So Dungy is not this great freaking coach you make him out to be.

In Chuckies defense he did build up the Raiders who he faced as coach of the Bucs the next year.

One of Al davis's senile moves was getting rid of gruden.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-11-2012, 01:44 AM
WTF happened to this thread?....When I left for work it was at 6 pages and now its 16.....lol

jnes1216
12-11-2012, 03:37 AM
Bottom line is that game was poorly managed. Offense - screen call from inside your own 10?? Defense - again with the soft cushions allowing easy 3rd down conversions. Spec Teams - a fake punt (brilliant call by S.D.) Coordinators and head coach alike sucked. This needs to stop. The worst part...this was at home.

P.S. I saw one drop by Wallace and one by Brown. So lets not go there lol!

TarlsQtr
12-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Want Mike Tomlin to be shown the door.

He isn't a gameday coach, just ****ing stands there, claps and doesn't ****ing do much else.

Living off Cowher's reputation.

Wish Cowher stayed on so 2008 was his year and legacy.

Sadly not.

2008 belongs to some **** that should be unemployed.

And how do you know that? Do you have a personal camera and mic on the guy all game, every game? The minute and 30 seconds of game coverage where the camera is on him sure does not tell much.

And honestly, 90% of the coaching by the HC is done during the week, not on game day. Unless you have a rare occasion where the HC is calling the defensive or offensive plays, the in game coaching is done by the coordinators/position coaches.

And if you want to discuss Cowher's reputation, it was as the reincarnation of Marty Schottenheimer until we won the Super Bowl in 2005, which-other than us winning-was one of the least inspiring Super Bowl performances ever.

If I had to rank them, Tomlin is probably on the higher end of average of the coaching scale (maybe 10-13). Definitely no Belichek, but a lot better than many. To imply that he is that miserably bad misses the mark. Like blaming Batch when we lost, it is a lot easier to blame the coach than the players you cheer for weekly. Tomlin did not drop one pass, miss one block, or leave a single guy open in coverage.

SuperSteelers
12-12-2012, 12:04 AM
if you asked cowher what he thought of kordell stewart he would have called him a franchise QB and then ejaculated all of the podium back then...the franchise QB argument is dumb considering he was infatuated with kordell and stuck with him way to long

Kordell is gay