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View Full Version : Pirates Manager job like Raiders Head Coaching job: Nobody wants either one!



BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 04:03 PM
Getting handed these jobs is like getting to hold the last donut at a weight watchers meeting. Dangerous and shortlived! Its like being handed a bagfull of sh*t and being told to make it smell nice! Can't be done! The losing tradition with both of these teams trickles down from the owners! Each year I watch as the other teams pick over our Pirates like vulture over a roadkill looking for anything worth taking! How can you ever build a team that way? How can you complain about attendance when you put a bad product on the field every year? Remember when promises were made about what the new stadium would do for the Pirates? We'll be able to compete with the larger market teams with revenues generated from the luxury boxes......yeah right! What a crock of sh*t! Now we just have one of the worst teams in one of the nicest ballparks! Nothing changed!

:cursin:

AZ_Steeler
01-30-2007, 04:13 PM
As long as the owner of the Pirates continues to put all his efforts towards his ski resorts and kind of worries about the Pirates when he thinks about them then we should just buckle down for the long haul and hope he sells them to someone who gives a damn!

big d
01-30-2007, 04:21 PM
I dont think jim tracey is that bad of a manager.

BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 04:39 PM
I dont think jim tracey is that bad of a manager.


I guess the job musta been a smidgen better than the unemployment line! May as well dress him in star spangled colors, hand him a cap gun and send him running through the streets of Bhagdad looking for terror cells! There would be more chance of success! Im just shocked nobody has plucked Jason Bay away from us yet! Maybe he'll go this year. Can you imagine the shear horror for a young star in high school when he hears he's been drafted by the Pirates?

:2cents:

SteelerDan43
01-30-2007, 07:19 PM
First off we have all the key pieces locked up through 2009, The Laroche deal only helps us, we have the first batting champ from the Pirates since the 70's. We are heading in the right direction

BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 08:06 PM
After Jason Bay I don't think any other players could make the rosters on most other teams. All I can say is I would love to play poker with David Littlefield! He is an idiot and we could recount all the horrible deals he has made if you want to go down that road! And to thank him for selling most of Pittsburghs talent and prospects down the river he is rewarded with a contract extension..........thereby ensuring that the team stinks for many years to come!

SteelerDan43
01-30-2007, 08:14 PM
Ok, thats why every team has been inquiring about our front 4 pitchers... we have the 2006 NL BATTING CHAMP! Something none of those great 90's teams had. While I havent agreed with probably 70% of the moves he did get Jason Bay and he did get Adam Laroche... Our team is better than you think, but you seem like the over pessimist that probably cant name half the roster without looking it up

BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 08:54 PM
I would love to love the team too! Was born and raised in Pittsburgh and have been to many Pirate games! The 90's teams were great and you cannot compare this team to that one! From the All-Star outfield of Bonds, Van Slyke and Bonilla to Bay, Duffy and Nady? Are you kidding me? You might be frothing about a batting title from a small contact hitter with no power playing 3rd base which is traditionally a power hitting position, but most teams wouldn't trade their 3rd baseman for him! David Wright can relax, his All-Star spot will be safe for years! I would rather see Aramis Ramirez back at third but that was another rape of talent! Awesome deal to get rid of Brian Giles too for Oliver Perez. Where is Oliver? I recall a guy named Doug Drabek winning a Cy Young award! Which guy in that front 4 will be the first to do that? Lets face it the Pirates are a farm team that developes talent for the rest of the league. Has been that way for a long long time! Won't change until the team is sold to an owner who wants to win!

SteelerDan43
01-30-2007, 10:12 PM
I would love to love the team too! Was born and raised in Pittsburgh and have been to many Pirate games! The 90's teams were great and you cannot compare this team to that one! From the All-Star outfield of Bonds, Van Slyke and Bonilla to Bay, Duffy and Nady? Are you kidding me? You might be frothing about a batting title from a small contact hitter with no power playing 3rd base which is traditionally a power hitting position, but most teams wouldn't trade their 3rd baseman for him! David Wright can relax, his All-Star spot will be safe for years! I would rather see Aramis Ramirez back at third but that was another rape of talent! Awesome deal to get rid of Brian Giles too for Oliver Perez. Where is Oliver? I recall a guy named Doug Drabek winning a Cy Young award! Which guy in that front 4 will be the first to do that? Lets face it the Pirates are a farm team that developes talent for the rest of the league. Has been that way for a long long time! Won't change until the team is sold to an owner who wants to win!

OK we got Oliver Perez AND JASON BAY for Giles... Who the hell says 3B has to be a power spot? Besides Sanchez is most likely moving to 2nd as he was a SS to begin with unless Castillo gets his act together and Bautista will take over at third. So you can compare apples to oranges in comparing 3B to Sanchez who was playing there because of thats the only IF spot open... I could give a **** if Sanchez has power or not, you need to get on base, not fly out, or strike out to mover people around and hit in clutch spots, all things Freddy does exceptionally. The ages of our front 4 are only Duke - 23, Gorzellany - 24, Maholm - 24, and Snell -25. Duke could of won rookie of the year if he played the whole season with the big club in 05, remember him going 8-1 when he came up???? Ian Snell had 14 wins last year! Duke had 10, who is to say that one of them cant win a Cy Young in the comming years??

BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 10:45 PM
I admire fans like you who are loyal no matter how many dissappointments your team hands you. But the facts are that despite the revenue sharing and the revenue promised from a state of the art stadium, the Pirates continue to be amongst the bottom in team payroll. Out of 30 teams the Pirates are 27th in payroll. Not surprising is the fact those teams all rank near the bottom of the league. 366 losses amongst those bottom 4 teams last year. You know that long before any of those pitchers gets close to smelling a Cy Young award they will be traded off to a contending team for some scrub players to be named later in another payroll cutting binge! Whats more is when players become free agents they don't want to sign with a team that consistently shows no commitment to winning! But the Pirates never let them reach that stage, they trade them off long before that because its better to get something than to lose the player as a unrestricted free agent to 26 other teams willing to outbid you for your own talent and get nothing! You know its true!

:willybs:

SteelerDan43
01-30-2007, 11:03 PM
Dont give me the we cant win cause we have no money, its been done before... Ask the Marlins, Twins, A's, and Royals who all contended at some point in the last decade with miniscule payrolls. Money helps but it isnt everything

BlackGold4vr
01-30-2007, 11:45 PM
Every one of these teams had a payroll about 20 mil more than the Pirates current payroll. Do you really want to compare the 2003 Marlins to the Pirates? Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnette, Brad Penny and Dontrelle Willis are you kidding me? Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Lowell, Derek Lee, Miguel Cabrera, Juan Pierre come on that team was loaded! Minnesota, Oakland both of those teams have had star power the Pirates can only dream about. Oakland has had one of the best starting rotations in baseball the last decade. The Royals I will give you, and they are just as pitiful as the Pirates. When was the last time the Royals contended 85? I do not hate the Pirates! I am unhappy with the mismanagement of the team and its owners very shallow pockets! I am not expecting them to compete with the Yankess or Red Sox. I think you will find plenty of contenders in the middle of the pack payroll range and very few if any at all near the bottom! The Pirates are always in the bottom 5!

SteelerDan43
01-31-2007, 12:32 AM
The Royals in 2003 were in contention untill very late in the season leading their division heading into September... In 2003 when the Marlins won the WS The Pirates payroll was 54.8 mil, the Marlins was only 48.7 mil. That same year both Minnesota and Oakland made the playoffs with payrolls of 55.5 and 50.2 respectively. Money doesn't guarantee you the playoffs. Those teams make habbits of buying high and selling low. Look at this past years Marlins who with a payroll of 14 million almost made the playoffs because they got multiple good young guys for older vets.

BlackGold4vr
01-31-2007, 09:59 AM
Every year at the trade deadline the Pirates are one of the biggest contributors to other teams. Just like I have said before the teams come swooping in like vultures to pick clean the talent like fresh roadkill. Will you deny that the Royals and Pirates get picked through by the contenders each year? To deny this would tell me you have your head in the sand and are in great denial! Baseball season is coming fast so be careful of making any BS statements because I will be here to remind you of your words. Come July I will make it a point to post every article of trade rumors swirling around the Pirates right here. We will post right here the teams who are in the dump salary mode! I know the Bucco's won't let me down, they are always one of the most active teams at the trade deadline! So you can keep shoveling but you are only burying yourself!

:lol:

SteelerDan43
01-31-2007, 11:09 AM
Hey I'm not saying we dont make bad trades, small market teams must buy low and sell high... When we traded Giles he was a top player and as soon as he left he had a major drop off, we just traded a young closer that had a good year but had some arm issues and was sporadic in the previous year, We traded Perez who after his foot issues lost his ability to push off the mound and throw with any velocity and was given a full year to fix it. In return we got Nady who was originally supposed to be apart of the Giles trade instead of Bay but the Padres wouldnt give him up. I give you the Ramirez trade and Wilson trades were bad deals... But this year we did something that was drastically different from previous years, we didnt throw our remaining 11 mil in the budget at a rent a player like Randa or Stairs. If you read some Pirates news you would know that the money is likely to be used to acquire at the deadline. The small market teams that are successful also make a habit of bringing up their own talent and drafting well, all 4 of our top young starters are homegrown. Our ridiculous bullpen depth that made Gonzo so expendable is all homegrown as is McLouth, Castillo, Duffy, and Paulino who was the first catcher since Piazza to hit +.300 as a rookie.

BlackGold4vr
01-31-2007, 01:10 PM
I also concede that smaller market teams need to be more thrifty with their money. When I see the Pirates jump on signing washed up players like Jeremy Burnitz who nobody else wanted, it is discouraging! I respect Jim Tracy as a manager. The owners in my opinion have not shown the team or the city the same level of commitment that the city and fans have given them. We have one of the nicest new ballparks and a cellar dweller team that plays on it. Eventually you have to resign some of your own homegrown stars to build around. You can't win by continually replacing the new stars with new prospects. The turnover of players on the Pirates has been higher than on lots of other teams. I live out in CA and watch a lot of Angels baseball. The Angels used to be a cheap team too until a couple years ago Arty Moreno bought the team. He has lowered concession prices and brought in talent to make the team competitive and attendance has steadily risen. If you put a team on the field who is still in the race come August and September the fans in Pittsburgh might actually start to fill up that beautiful new park!

SteelerDan43
01-31-2007, 06:45 PM
I also concede that smaller market teams need to be more thrifty with their money. When I see the Pirates jump on signing washed up players like Jeremy Burnitz who nobody else wanted, it is discouraging! I respect Jim Tracy as a manager. The owners in my opinion have not shown the team or the city the same level of commitment that the city and fans have given them. We have one of the nicest new ballparks and a cellar dweller team that plays on it. Eventually you have to resign some of your own homegrown stars to build around. You can't win by continually replacing the new stars with new prospects. The turnover of players on the Pirates has been higher than on lots of other teams. I live out in CA and watch a lot of Angels baseball. The Angels used to be a cheap team too until a couple years ago Arty Moreno bought the team. He has lowered concession prices and brought in talent to make the team competitive and attendance has steadily risen. If you put a team on the field who is still in the race come August and September the fans in Pittsburgh might actually start to fill up that beautiful new park!

They didnt sign any rent-a-players this year, they still have 11 million dollars in the budget that is unused because of the outrageous prices of FA's this year. The Oakland A's sure havent had a problem when they let Tejada and Giambi go in FA without getting a damn thing for them. The only true star players we have traded away with out getting a better return were Ramirez, and Schmidt who was getting older and wasnt great with us but actually raised his level of play after he left. The Craig Wilson trade wasnt a good one but he wasnt exactly a star player, his nickname was KKKraig for a reason... Benson, Lofton, Sanders, and Stairs were not going to resign with us anyway. So saying we trade away anyone good and get nothing in return isnt quite accurate