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View Full Version : Arians, Tomlin, Roethlisberger, Luck and the offensive line of the Steelers and the Colts.



NYCsteelersfan
11-30-2012, 02:40 PM
I haven't really seen anyone discuss this, and I myself have somewhat ignored the issue because Arians makes me sick and I wanted him gone even before the 2008 Superbowl win, but I'm curious what others are thinking.

Arians is now 6-2 as the head coach of the Colts, so what the f%#k is going on?

I don't believe that Luck is better than Roethlisberger or that he plays in Arians' system better, so I'll remove the quarterbacks out of the equation. That leaves Tomlin, Arians and the offensive lines of the two teams.

Was Arians an idiot running the offense when he was on the Steelers? That can't even be a question. Of course he was. The question is whether Tomlin, the offensive line of the Steelers, or a combination of the two forced Arians into being an idiot, or is Arians still an idiot and the Colts are just getting very lucky? I haven't really watched them play and I haven't looked at stats to help answer these questions.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
Arians isn't the total idiot that people make him out to be he just wasn't the best play-caller....scheme wise he was very smart but so damn stubborn that he wouldn't adjust.........

NYCsteelersfan
11-30-2012, 02:57 PM
I thought he was an idiot because his plays simply weren't adapted to a horrific offensive line, which is what we had and still do have. That's my personal opinion. That's the only reason I disliked him. And his only adjustment to an offensive line that couldn't provide pass protection was horribly designed short pass plays.

If you think it was his play-calling, what do you think is going on now? He finally learned?

cmerrifield
11-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Last year, Arians scripted the first 15 plays of the game and we lead the league, I think, in scoring touchdowns on the first drive with like 11 or 12. He just can't call plays on the field or adjust well. But maybe he is doing well in Indy cause he has something to prove.

sent from my Galaxy SIII using tapatalk 2

Black@Gold Forever32
11-30-2012, 03:12 PM
I thought he was an idiot because his plays simply weren't adapted to a horrific offensive line, which is what we had and still do have. That's my personal opinion. That's the only reason I disliked him. And his only adjustment to an offensive line that couldn't provide pass protection was horribly designed short pass plays.

If you think it was his play-calling, what do you think is going on now? He finally learned?

Ben and Luck are super talented QBs and would be damn good QB's without BA but at the sametime BA deserves some credit in their development as an NFL QB....I don't think Ben would have grown as much as a pocket QB under Whiz....Whiz didn't even trust Ben to audible.......BA had that attitude he was going to do what he wanted to period and didn't matter if the defense was stopping him........That is what I mean when I said BA was so stubborn and didn't adjust.......His play-calling reflected that with the Steelers.......I havn't watched many Colts games so I can't really comment on what he is doing Indy......

LatrobePA
11-30-2012, 03:16 PM
F**k Luck and BA!!

Zachintosh66
11-30-2012, 03:22 PM
Haley > BA

NeilPatrickBanana
11-30-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't believe that Luck is better than Roethlisberger


And that's where you are wrong...

DBR96A
11-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Colts fans are beginning to complain about Arians' play-calling and stubbornness. In fact, the most ardent critics have begun to sound like the majority of Steeler fans did. Here's a great example from Colts.com (http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/12857-2-trips-to-the-redzone-in-the-1st-half/#entry341723):


Lack of rushing production and lack rushing attempts are two very diffferent things. Kind of hard for our backs to score rushing TD's in the redzone when they're constantly on the sideline or lined up out wide whenever we reach that part of the field. Case in point, the 1st time we made it to the redzone yesterday, we handed it off to Brown on 1st down (gain of 4) and handed it off to him again on 2nd down (gain of 3.) With a 3rd and 3 inside the 10 yard line after 2 respectable gains on the ground, you'd think Arians would stick with a run look and maybe go play action, right? Wrong. 3rd and 3 on the 7 yard line, he takes Brown off the field completely, puts Ballard in and calls an empty backfield for an incomplete pass. Drive results in field goal.You want to know the worst thing about that play on 3rd and 3? Arians called a timeout before they ran the play, meaning he actually took time to call the offense over and look for what he felt was the best play in that situation. Such a horrible play call out of a timeout. He has no concept of plays complimenting each other.

The 2nd time we made it into the redzone was just before the half. Reggie caught a pass that got us to the 3 yard line. Now, we didn't have anymore timeouts with only 16 secs left on the clock, so I understand having to call all pass plays in that situation. However, common sense tells you that all pass plays should be called in the endzone or to the sidelines so the clock will stop if the pass is incomplete. The 1st play we ran was so sloppy, none of the routes were defined at all. I think I saw Avery and Allen in the same area on the incomplete pass to Allen. Play had no chance. The 2nd play ran is what was pure stupidity on Arians part. He calls a slant to Reggie just outside the endzone. Of course, Reggie is tackled short of the endzone right away and the clock continues to run, thus eliminating any chance of another shot in the endzone before settling for a fieldgoal. If he were going to call any routes short of the endzone, he should've kept a back in the backfield and at least made them think about the possibility of a draw or a flat route by the back. Would've had the same level of risk as the play he ended up running with an empty backfield.

The guy is a dope inside the 20's, plain and simple. We don't run well inside the redzone because we don't try. And when we do try, we telegraph which way every run is going with the constant TE motions

Sorry, Colts fans. He's yours for a while, and Andrew Luck will not be an elite NFL QB until he's gone. :stirpot:

LarryNJ
11-30-2012, 05:23 PM
I only watch part of one game but they beat the Bill, jags, Dolphins, Browns, & titans not exactly power house teams They got crush by the Jets and Pats. I'd say they are much improved from last year because of Luck and in spite of BA. You can't underestimate the extra motivation playing for their missing coach.

K Train
11-30-2012, 06:17 PM
he has no running game and a finesse offense that likes to pass...hes in heaven for his scheme.

plus hes always been a good QB coach and he fell into an awesome situation with andrew luck...good for him really, but he isnt what the steelers needed as a playcaller

jnes1216
12-01-2012, 05:36 AM
Interesting to see how the offense performs when the "new car smell" wears off. Luck won't be a vaunted rookie and things will return to normal with three bland bubble screens and a cloud of punting.

Nolrog
12-01-2012, 08:16 AM
I thought he was an idiot because his plays simply weren't adapted to a horrific offensive line, which is what we had and still do have.

I also thought he didn't game play to take advantage of the opponent's weakness and didn't do well in halftime adjustments.

coldrolled
12-01-2012, 09:22 AM
Lets see how it goes for him when teams play him as an 8-8 team next year and not a 0-16 team like this year.

Plus the schedule will be setup a bit tougher..

SnakeEyes43
12-01-2012, 11:15 AM
Luck and BA won't make three Super Bowl appearances, with two wins. Won't happen.

And yes, Haley>>>>>>>BA. Our offense was the tits before Ben got hurt; it's crazy how the tables have turned.

ChucktownSteeler
12-01-2012, 01:25 PM
Arians wasn't the demon most made him out to be. He is a great positional coach and very good at scripting the first 15 or 20 plays. His down side was his stubbornness and perhaps not revising the game plan when needed (i.e. see SB vs. Green Bay)

How we can judge anything or anyone with this revolving/ injury ridden O-line for the past 3 - 4 years is beyond me.

We have had much worse OCs than Arians: Walton is one, Sherman the other.

coldrolled
12-01-2012, 05:39 PM
Arians wasn't the demon most made him out to be. He is a great positional coach and very good at scripting the first 15 or 20 plays. His down side was his stubbornness and perhaps not revising the game plan when needed (i.e. see SB vs. Green Bay)

How we can judge anything or anyone with this revolving/ injury ridden O-line for the past 3 - 4 years is beyond me.

We have had much worse OCs than Arians: Walton is one, Sherman the other.

He had a good script in the SB with the Cardinals in the first qtr too. then we regressed...

Get7With7
12-01-2012, 07:00 PM
And that's where you are wrong...

Not right now he isn't.

In regards to Arians, many Stiller fans hate him because the offense was deemed to be "pass-happy." Deep down, they wanted this offense to have some resemblance of the early 70's offense. Anything else is criminal as, let's face it, Pittsburgh isn't a QB friendly town. In truth, the Arians' offense was able to move the ball between the 20's. The problem is Arians crapped the bed in the redzone. Too many field goals. If the Steelers scored more touchdowns, then in spite of all of Arians' other issues, he might still be OC.

HUNT4SEVEN
12-01-2012, 09:42 PM
LMAO it's really that simple...
Haley > BA

The Lakelander
12-02-2012, 08:35 AM
Right now the Colts are ahead of the Steelers in the playoff race ... (*cough*) ... :imho:

cmerrifield
12-02-2012, 04:59 PM
Right now the Colts are ahead of the Steelers in the playoff race ... (*cough*) ... :imho:

They lost today, didn't they?

sent from my Galaxy SIII using tapatalk 2

DBR96A
12-02-2012, 09:03 PM
No, the Colts won 35-33 on the last play of the game. They had the ball in the red zone on fourth down with just a few seconds left, and Andrew Luck threw the game-winning TD. The Arians offense doesn't fail every time it sees the red zone, just more often than not. (Maybe Luck called the plays on that drive?)

SnakeEyes43
12-02-2012, 09:17 PM
Luck looked like a boss that last drive. But I still hate him and the Colts.

cmerrifield
12-02-2012, 10:58 PM
No, the Colts won 35-33 on the last play of the game. They had the ball in the red zone on fourth down with just a few seconds left, and Andrew Luck threw the game-winning TD. The Arians offense doesn't fail every time it sees the red zone, just more often than not. (Maybe Luck called the plays on that drive?)

That's what I get for assuming with under 2 minutes the lions could hold.:banghead:

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NYCsteelersfan
12-03-2012, 08:12 PM
And that's where you are wrong...

He has 17 TDs and 16 INTs, along with a 55% Cmp%. Let me guess you also think that Eli Manning and "Matty Ice" are better quarterbacks than Roethlisberger as well, right? And you also smoke crack and regurgitate whatever ESPN tells you?

Goodfrom55
12-03-2012, 08:45 PM
BA had a good system, but was a horrible play caller. System geared for passing game, but could not kill clock with a lead by running the ball.

NYCsteelersfan
12-03-2012, 08:46 PM
BA had a good system, but was a horrible play caller. System geared for passing game, but could not kill clock with a lead by running the ball.

Agreed. I guess he's just a better head coach than he was an offensive coordinator. 7-2

SnakeEyes43
12-03-2012, 08:47 PM
I agree with what a few have said. BA is in his dream system now, and is finding success...but certainly HALEY>>>>BA.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 08:59 PM
He has 17 TDs and 16 INTs, along with a 55% Cmp%. Let me guess you also think that Eli Manning and "Matty Ice" are better quarterbacks than Roethlisberger as well, right? And you also smoke crack and regurgitate whatever ESPN tells you?

you asked "what the **** is going on?".... and didn't like the answer

Andrew Luck is significantly more talented then Ben Roethlisberger.

yes, Luck is a rookie, so he makes rookie mistakes... but from a talent perspective... Luck is significantly better. I'm not drinking kool aid, I'm watching football. You clearly are not, which is why you are confused as to why Luck/Arians has been so successfull.... Here's a hint, it doesn't have much to do with Arians at all.

Ben is one of the best playmaking, big game QBs... EVER. And Luck has WAY more QB talent then him.

Don't be such a homer

NYCsteelersfan
12-03-2012, 09:03 PM
you asked "what the **** is going on?".... and didn't like the answer

Andrew Luck is significantly more talented then Ben Roethlisberger.

yes, Luck is a rookie, so he makes rookie mistakes... but from a talent perspective... Luck is significantly better. I'm not drinking kool aid, I'm watching football. You clearly are not, which is why you are confused as to why Luck/Arians has been so successfull.... Here's a hint, it doesn't have much to do with Arians at all.

Ben is one of the best playmaking, big game QBs... EVER. And Luck has WAY more QB talent then him.

Don't be such a homer

I ruled out Luck being better than Roethlisberger. I didn't ask anyone about that because only a fool would think otherwise.

You're saying that a guy who has 17 TDs, 16 INTs and a 55 Cmp% is the reason why the team is winning. You're clearly an idiot and avid drinker of the ESPN Kool Aid.

SnakeEyes43
12-03-2012, 09:04 PM
Andrew Luck is significantly more talented then Ben Roethlisberger.

yes, Luck is a rookie, so he makes rookie mistakes... but from a talent perspective... Luck is significantly better. I'm not drinking kool aid, I'm watching football. You clearly are not, which is why you are confused as to why Luck/Arians has been so successfull.... Here's a hint, it doesn't have much to do with Arians at all.

Ben is one of the best playmaking, big game QBs... EVER. And Luck has WAY more QB talent then him.

Don't be such a homer

:haha:

Okay, I can breathe. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie, and went to the AFC Championship. The next year he won the Super Bowl. Luck won't do either. That's all that matter.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:09 PM
:haha:

Okay, I can breathe. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie, and went to the AFC Championship. The next year he won the Super Bowl. Luck won't do either. That's all that matter.

Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie... what's your point?

When you watch Andrew Luck play (you most likely dont), what do you see?

I can't tell if this place is just unserious, or dumb...

SnakeEyes43
12-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie... what's your point?

When you watch Andrew Luck play (you most likely dont), what do you see?

I can't tell if this place is just unserious, or dumb...

I live in South Bend, Indiana, idiot. I see Luck play every week, unfortunately. And my point is that Luck is not better, or more talented, than Ben Roethlisberger. And he will NEVER accomplish what Big Ben has. Luck will never be in three Super Bowls, winning two. If you disagree, than you are just unserious, or dumb...

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:15 PM
I live in South Bend Indiana, idiot. I see Luck play every week, unfortunately. And my point is that Luck is not better, or more talented, than Ben Roethlisberger. And he will NEVER accomplish what Big Ben has. Luck will never be in three Super Bowls, winning two. If you disagree, than you are just unserious, or dumb.

People that think they know what WILL happen aren't serious.... they are clowns.

If watching the most talented young QB of the last decade is something you consider "unfortunate", then you aren't a serious football fan.

SnakeEyes43
12-03-2012, 09:17 PM
People that think they know what WILL happen aren't serious.... they are clowns.

If you are "unfortunately" watching the most talented young QB of the last decade, then you aren't a serious football fan.

Hahaha, you're funny. Now go away. When Luck wins a Super Bowl, come back and rub it in my face. See you...never. Toodles!

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:19 PM
I haven't really watched them play and I haven't looked at stats to help answer these questions.

hmmm
but there's no way it could have something to do with the franchise QB they just drafted...
:nono:

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Hahaha, you're funny. Now go away. When Luck wins a Super Bowl, come back and rub it in my face. See you...never. Toodles!

that's an impressive argument...

are there any actual football fans on this board?

NYCsteelersfan
12-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie... what's your point?

When you watch Andrew Luck play (you most likely dont), what do you see?

I can't tell if this place is just unserious, or dumb...

I mean you're clearly an idiot, acting as if you're an advanced scout who hangs out on a Steelers forum. 10 games into the season and it's clear to you that Luck is better than Roethlisberger who has played for 9 seasons and is currently 9th all time is QB rating. I mean you're an idiot. There's really nothing else that can be said.

K Train
12-03-2012, 09:24 PM
its not about wins as a QB, but you can tell watching luck he has a little something special, and is MUCH more polished of a passer and as a QB in his mind with reading defenses....and still shows flashes of brilliant ben-like playmaking ability

for years we watched the steelers play great defense, move the ball on the ground and you would see ben drop back (and masterfully use play action), struggle to read the defense, roll out or make people miss and brush off tackles and then find a man wide open way down the field. Obviously ben has grown as a QB since then, but as a rookie he had a low amount of attempts and a record high yards per attempt.

luck on the other hand has no defense or running game and is forced to throw the ball early and often, but you see him make plays with his feet and buying time (hes a big, athletic, QB with a quick release...like ben) but he is able to go through his progressions and look off defenders with the best of them at THIS stage in his career without the running game. its amazing.

imo hes a ridiculous combination of ben and eli...ben as an athlete, eli as a passer (eli was definitely a better passer and has played in one the NFLs most complex offenses since his rookie year)

SnakeEyes43
12-03-2012, 09:24 PM
that's an impressive argument...

are there any actual football fans on this board?

There's nothing to argue.
You have no basis for your statement, it's your opinion of a rookie QB with 17 TDs and 16 INTS.
I'm saying stats and facts. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie, and went to AFC champ. Ben has three SB appearances, two wins. You have nothing but an opinion on "talent". Aren't there any actual football fans in Flordia?

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:25 PM
I mean you're clearly an idiot, acting as if you're an advanced scout who hangs out on a Steelers forum. 10 games into the season and it's clear to you that Luck is better than Roethlisberger who has played for 9 seasons and is currently 9th all time is QB rating. I mean you're an idiot. There's really nothing else that can be said.

It was clear to me before the draft that Luck was more talented then a lot of NFL QBs. I watch college football too. You should check it out sometime. What are Luck's weaknesses, in your opinion, since you watch so much football in south bend. Tell me without using stats from nfl.com

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:29 PM
its not about wins as a QB, but you can tell watching luck he has a little something special, and is MUCH more polished of a passer and as a QB in his mind with reading defenses....and still shows flashes of brilliant ben-like playmaking ability

for years we watched the steelers play great defense, move the ball on the ground and you would see ben drop back (and masterfully use play action), struggle to read the defense, roll out or make people miss and brush off tackles and then find a man wide open way down the field. Obviously ben has grown as a QB since then, but as a rookie he had a low amount of attempts and a record high yards per attempt.

luck on the other hand has no defense or running game and is forced to throw the ball early and often, but you see him make plays with his feet and buying time (hes a big, athletic, QB with a quick release...like ben) but he is able to go through his progressions and look off defenders with the best of them at THIS stage in his career without the running game. its amazing.

imo hes a ridiculous combination of ben and eli...ben as an athlete, eli as a passer (eli was definitely a better passer and has played in one the NFLs most complex offenses since his rookie year)

I think he's a combination of Rodgers mobility and accuracy on the run, and Peyton's field general/offensive awareness. Luck is the perfect QB... and it won't be but 3 years before he's regarded as one of the best in the NFL.

If you were to create a perfect franchise QB in a laboratory, the result would be Andrew Luck

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:30 PM
There's nothing to argue.
You have no basis for your statement, it's your opinion of a rookie QB with 17 TDs and 16 INTS.
I'm saying stats and facts. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie, and went to AFC champ. Ben has three SB appearances, two wins. You have nothing but an opinion on "talent". Aren't there any actual football fans in Flordia?

uh... yes, it is my opinion. I'm impressed. How'd you figure that out?

the original question in this thread was something along the lines of "Why is Arians/Indy so successful, if we hated Arians and he sucked so much here"...

my answer to the question is : Andrew Luck

K Train
12-03-2012, 09:34 PM
I think he's a combination of Rodgers mobility and accuracy on the run, and Peyton's field general/offensive awareness. Luck is the perfect QB... and it won't be but 3 years before he's regarded as one of the best in the NFL.

If you were to create a perfect franchise QB in a laboratory, the result would be Andrew Luck
i dont disagree, but rodgers was horrible for a few years....like really bad, in preseason and (rare) snaps for favre he was pretty terrible. Hes grown into a master of the position now, but luck is significantly bigger (rodgers is slightly small for a QB, not that it matters obviously) but i would consider rodgers (like ben as well) one of the more athletic QBs in the league, and lucks athletic ability is vastly underrated because hes in a constant competition with the media with RG3

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 09:41 PM
i dont disagree, but rodgers was horrible for a few years....like really bad, in preseason and (rare) snaps for favre he was pretty terrible. Hes grown into a master of the position now, but luck is significantly bigger (rodgers is slightly small for a QB, not that it matters obviously) but i would consider rodgers (like ben as well) one of the more athletic QBs in the league, and lucks athletic ability is vastly underrated because hes in a constant competition with the media with RG3

agreed. he's right in between Rodgers and Ben in size... but I think he's more comparable to Rodgers in terms of mobility, and how they throw on the run. But regardless of nitpicking between which elite QBs he most resembles... the main point, is that Luck is the complete package, he has ALL the tools in the tool box.

It's not that I don't think Ben is an elite QB. I think he's top 5 (peyton, rodgers, brady, ben, and eli IMO).... I just think Luck has more natural talent then Ben...

ChucktownSteeler
12-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Luck will be a very good QB.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 10:02 PM
Luck looked like a boss that last drive. But I still hate him and the Colts.

oh, i get it now. your irrationality is due to a personal bias.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 10:06 PM
I haven't really seen anyone discuss this, and I myself have somewhat ignored the issue because Arians makes me sick and I wanted him gone even before the 2008 Superbowl win, but I'm curious what others are thinking.

Arians is now 6-2 as the head coach of the Colts, so what the f%#k is going on?

I don't believe that Luck is better than Roethlisberger or that he plays in Arians' system better, so I'll remove the quarterbacks out of the equation. That leaves Tomlin, Arians and the offensive lines of the two teams.

Was Arians an idiot running the offense when he was on the Steelers? That can't even be a question. Of course he was. The question is whether Tomlin, the offensive line of the Steelers, or a combination of the two forced Arians into being an idiot, or is Arians still an idiot and the Colts are just getting very lucky? I haven't really watched them play and I haven't looked at stats to help answer these questions.


I ruled out Luck being better than Roethlisberger. I didn't ask anyone about that because only a fool would think otherwise.

You're saying that a guy who has 17 TDs, 16 INTs and a 55 Cmp% is the reason why the team is winning. You're clearly an idiot and avid drinker of the ESPN Kool Aid.

"I ruled out Andrew Luck being the reason, even though I have not watched them play"

only a fool... :clap:

NYCsteelersfan
12-03-2012, 11:14 PM
"I ruled out Andrew Luck being the reason, even though I have not watched them play"

only a fool... :clap:

Only a moron would compare a quarterback that has played 10 games to a quarterback that has 9 seasons. Only a Moron that sucks his sports knowledge out of ESPN's c#@k would say a rookie quarterback with 17 TDs and 16 INTs is better than a quarterback that ranks 9th all time is QB rating after playing 9 seasons.

Keep sucking that sports info out of ESPN's meat. That's how they stay in business.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-03-2012, 11:46 PM
Only a moron would compare a quarterback that has played 10 games to a quarterback that has 9 seasons. Only a Moron that sucks his sports knowledge out of ESPN's c#@k would say a rookie quarterback with 17 TDs and 16 INTs is better than a quarterback that ranks 9th all time is QB rating after playing 9 seasons.

Keep sucking that sports info out of ESPN's meat. That's how they stay in business.

I understand how you need to project the idea that I got my opinion from ESPN after you openly announced that you came to your opinion without watching the Colts/Luck actually play football.

On the contrary, I watch football... you're the one who raised your hand and said, "My opinion isn't informed by actually watching football". It's no wonder you have questions...

but it's cute that you think this TD/INT stat is like some sort of trump card in the conversation of QB talent... as if the actual evaluation of a QB's skills (TDs aren't actually a skill set) is suddenly of less value. Oh right... you haven't watched Luck play, so you have no idea of his talent outside the stats on nfl.com.

Ironman92
12-04-2012, 12:03 AM
As a Steelers fan I take Ben over Luck

As a Colts fan....they should all be shickled titless to have Andrew Luck...the guy has everything including "it"

Ben is beyond proven and Luck looks like he will be in the next few years and he's already around the Top 10

NeilPatrickBanana
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
I haven't really seen anyone discuss this, and I myself have somewhat ignored the issue because Arians makes me sick and I wanted him gone even before the 2008 Superbowl win, but I'm curious what others are thinking.

Arians is now 6-2 as the head coach of the Colts, so what the f%#k is going on?

I don't believe that Luck is better than Roethlisberger or that he plays in Arians' system better, so I'll remove the quarterbacks out of the equation. That leaves Tomlin, Arians and the offensive lines of the two teams.

Was Arians an idiot running the offense when he was on the Steelers? That can't even be a question. Of course he was. The question is whether Tomlin, the offensive line of the Steelers, or a combination of the two forced Arians into being an idiot, or is Arians still an idiot and the Colts are just getting very lucky? I haven't really watched them play and I haven't looked at stats to help answer these questions.

so you proposed 2 possible answers to your own question:
1. Tomlin and/or the offensive line FORCED Arians into "being an idiot"
2. Arians is the idiot, and the Colts are just getting very lucky

and you admit that you don't really know the answer, because you haven't even watched the Colts play football :scratch:

But, I suggest that the real answer to your question is : Andrew Luck is a young phenom
and somehow I'm the moron?
:bigthumb:

K Train
12-04-2012, 12:57 AM
and its not like arians lost a bunch of games for the steelers, he just wasnt the best thing for the talent he had vs the scheme he wanted to run when he was with the steelers. hes always been a good coach, just not a great play caller

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2012, 02:13 AM
Ok first things firsts Ben didn't go 15-1 his rookie year....He was 13-0 in the regular season....Tommy Maddox started three games in 2004........The first two games of the season and then Tommy was hurt game 2 vs Baltimore and Ben then made his NFL debut against the Ravens down by 20....Maddox also started the meaningless game vs the Bills in Buffalo that season to rest Ben....That game was also Willie Parkers coming out party and his first 100 yard game......Sorry I'm just technical like that.....lol

As for the Ben vs Luck debate.....I don't think NeilPatrick wasn't comparing Luck the rookie vs Ben the 9 year NFL vet.....But comparing Luck's rookie year to Ben's rookie year and Luck's overall potential......Really as a QB prospect Ben doesn't compare to Luck....Luck was the first overall pick and played at Stanford.......Ben was the 11th overall pick and played at Miami of Ohio....That isn't knocking Ben but Andrew Luck was the top QB prospect to come out since John Elway......As for the potential of Andrew Luck the sky is the limit for him and really he could end one of the alltime greats......To say he won't go on to win a Super Bowl is ridiculous.......

True Andrew Luck may never win a Super Bowl or even reach a Super Bowl but look what he has done in his rookie year....He took a putrid Colts team that won two games last year and is going to lead them to the play-offs.......If you don't think Luck has played a major part in the Colts fast turn around then you have a screw loose......

I agree with Ktrain about Luck being part Ben and Eli.....But I also think he is cerebral like Peyton Manning.......He is going to be a great NFL QB bar none.......

As for BA, and I do miss BA in a way.....I look at his offense in Indy and that is the offense I thought the Steelers offense would become.......In my opinion Luck is the perfect fit for BA's system and BA has plenty young athletic play-makers for Luck in Hilton, Fleener, Allen........BA tried the samething in Pittsburgh but Matt Spaeth was just waste of space and not as athletic as Fleener or Allen........If the Steelers had another TE to pair with Miller I do think the BA offense would have thrived more in Pittsburgh...I know the response well BA didn't use Miller enough anyway......The strength of the Steelers offense under BA was Ben and the WR's so he schemed his offense around those strengths......Scheme wise BA was fine but he was to damn stubborn to adjust which led to him calling **** poor games at times.....Plus him being to buddy buddy with Ben was a problem.....

NYCsteelersfan
12-04-2012, 02:17 AM
so you proposed 2 possible answers to your own question:
1. Tomlin and/or the offensive line FORCED Arians into "being an idiot"
2. Arians is the idiot, and the Colts are just getting very lucky

and you admit that you don't really know the answer, because you haven't even watched the Colts play football :scratch:

But, I suggest that the real answer to your question is : Andrew Luck is a young phenom
and somehow I'm the moron?
:bigthumb:

You may try and be as articulate as is grammatically and creatively possible. You may continue to pawn yourself off as an advanced NFL scout. You may try and spin your original idiotic statement into something else. But your idiotic still remains on record and you are clearly an idiot for making it because only an idiot would say a 10 game quarterback with 17 TDs and 16 INTs is better than a 9 season quarterback with 2 Superbowl rings and 9th all time in QB rating. And yes, TDs versus INTs are what matter at the end of the day. Speaking of a players intangibles is for idiots that watch ESPN all day.

And a lot of people who watch college football, people who do it as a job, thought Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Michael Vick, Vince Young and a long list of many more would be great. You're just a moron that says he knew a player was going to be great after others said he was going to be great and now that he's on a team that has a winning record, you pat yourself on the back and say "I'M SMART!" But you're not. You're just a regurgitating moron.

NYCsteelersfan
12-04-2012, 02:47 AM
As for the Ben vs Luck debate.....I don't think NeilPatrick wasn't comparing Luck the rookie vs Ben the 9 year NFL vet.....But comparing Luck's rookie year to Ben's rookie year and Luck's overall potential

No, that's exactly what he was saying, just read his post. And comparing rookie Luck to rookie Roethlisberger makes no sense in regards to this thread because Arians didn't play with a rookie Roethlisberger. He played with a Reothlisberger that had four seasons and a SUperbowl under his belt already. So what Roethlisberger did as a rookie compared to Luck as a rookie, or Roethlisberger's draft ranking or potential is completely irrelevant to the thread. Whatever Roethlisberger's draft ranking or potential was as a rookie is eclipsed by the fact that he's now an elite quarterback with two Superbowl rings and 3 Superbowl appearances in only 8 full seasons. He's the fifth best quarterback in the league, unless you rank him on an ESPN and neilpatrick scale that puts guys like "Matty Ice" and Romo ahead of Roethlisberger.

The original question basically asked why Arians was having success with the Colt's offense and wasn't having success with the Steelers offense. The answer to that question cannot be because rookie Luck is better than 4th, 5th and 6th year Roethlisberger. That notion is asinine and has received far more attention than such nonsense deserves.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-04-2012, 09:39 AM
You may try and be as articulate as is grammatically and creatively possible. You may continue to pawn yourself off as an advanced NFL scout. You may try and spin your original idiotic statement into something else. But your idiotic still remains on record and you are clearly an idiot for making it because only an idiot would say a 10 game quarterback with 17 TDs and 16 INTs is better than a 9 season quarterback with 2 Superbowl rings and 9th all time in QB rating. And yes, TDs versus INTs are what matter at the end of the day. Speaking of a players intangibles is for idiots that watch ESPN all day.

And a lot of people who watch college football, people who do it as a job, thought Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Michael Vick, Vince Young and a long list of many more would be great. You're just a moron that says he knew a player was going to be great after others said he was going to be great and now that he's on a team that has a winning record, you pat yourself on the back and say "I'M SMART!" But you're not. You're just a regurgitating moron.

Just because you aren't capable of evaluating player talent, doesn't mean someone else has to be an "advanced NFL Scout". It's a nice slittle straw man you've built here, but at least I've found that their are some rational people around here. You seem to be the resident dingbat.

NeilPatrickBanana
12-04-2012, 09:52 AM
No, that's exactly what he was saying, just read his post. And comparing rookie Luck to rookie Roethlisberger makes no sense in regards to this thread because Arians didn't play with a rookie Roethlisberger. He played with a Reothlisberger that had four seasons and a SUperbowl under his belt already. So what Roethlisberger did as a rookie compared to Luck as a rookie, or Roethlisberger's draft ranking or potential is completely irrelevant to the thread. Whatever Roethlisberger's draft ranking or potential was as a rookie is eclipsed by the fact that he's now an elite quarterback with two Superbowl rings and 3 Superbowl appearances in only 8 full seasons. He's the fifth best quarterback in the league, unless you rank him on an ESPN and neilpatrick scale that puts guys like "Matty Ice" and Romo ahead of Roethlisberger.

The original question basically asked why Arians was having success with the Colt's offense and wasn't having success with the Steelers offense. The answer to that question cannot be because rookie Luck is better than 4th, 5th and 6th year Roethlisberger. That notion is asinine and has received far more attention than such nonsense deserves.

I rank Roethlisberger #4 . Because QB rankings are based on the entirety of your career and your current state.

Luck however, is more talented. You just don't know it... because, as you stated, you haven't watched him play

the ignorance it takes to hold an opinion on something you admit you aren't informed on... is incredible