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View Full Version : I'm so tired of the "letting players sit and learn" mentality



BlitzburghRockCity
10-02-2012, 10:02 AM
Just feel the need to rant for a bit because nothing ever changes with our Steelers defense, but really the whole mentality surrounding this team in general. I admit we've been spoiled by some outstanding play over the last 10 years; back when Blitzburgh was truly Blitzburgh. When is it time for a change of thinking, I don't care who the coaches are.

I didn't see Mike Wallace sitting on the bench when he was drafted. Sanders and Brown were getting reps early on too. Mendenhall was thrown into the offensive gameplan right out of the gate, DeCastro was slated to start, the list goes on and on.

When is it going to be ok to allow that to happen on defense too??? Don't give me this, "the steeler defense is too hard to master" crap either anymore. I'm so tired of that excuse. Sure it's hard to learn, what isn't in the NFL. It's nothing more than a rationalization to hang onto veterans who need to be cut as much as it's having no faith in the talent you draft. When you sprinkle in new talent over time, you can live with the growing pains.

Cam Heyward is not doing anybody any good being a rotational player. Since when do you let a 1st round pick continue to play second fiddle to a guy ahead of him who's had more than enough time to develop and still isn't anything special?

Where is the linebacker drafting at? If Jason Worilds and Chris Carter are the best you got then something has been wrong way too long. I get that Sean Spence is going to be the future, and it sucks that he got hurt but drafting guys like him has been lacking to say the least.

The secondary right now, Safety in particular is ridiculous. The dropoff in play when Troy and Ryan aren't in there is beyond unacceptable. What is it going to take to draft their replacements? Why do we have to wait until the guy can barely move anymore before you consider finding someone else.

You could rationalize the fact that after SB XLIII, many of the players that were on the team after that win or are still on this team should have been replaced by now. That was their last hurrah. The loss to the Packers should have been more than enough to make them realize that. We were living on borrowed time with no depth and we got burned.

Let go, move on, let the young guys play and draft better talent. You live with the growing pains but the rewards are huge!!

Sincerely - a life long fan tired of the same old same old...

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 10:06 AM
I agree 1/mil %!! If this defense is that hard to learn then ditch it, crap hasn't worked in years! I hate see all these other teams having their rookies on defense playing lights out and ours rotting on the bench.

DBR96A
10-02-2012, 10:28 AM
The irony is, Dick LeBeau's defense is really hard to learn, unless you're an opposing offense. :evilshake:

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 10:42 AM
The irony is, Dick LeBeau's defense is really hard to learn, unless you're an opposing offense. :evilshake:

LMAO! Maybe Carson Palmer can come tutor our young guys??

jpele
10-02-2012, 10:49 AM
I just read an article ( I'll see if I can dig it up) it showed that when we play bump and rum man coverage we are much much better than when we play zone.

So I have to ask why we don't stick with man coverage. Now to stay on topic, I would love to see the younger get playing time rather than sit on the bench.

BlitzburghRockCity
10-02-2012, 11:22 AM
That's a great point man, its the "inside the box" thinking and the "that's what we've always done" mentality that keeps us from doing more things like man to man. You spent 2 drafts on Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen, and you finally are giving Keenan Lewis a chance. Perfect case in point, there are going to be growing pains with both, but each is finally getting to play now. If you did your job well then these guys will start to come around become solid players. It only took how many years of Will Gay screwing up before you gave Lewis a chance?


How much worse could he have been than what Gay was at the biggest times of the season?


I'm willing to live with rough games at cornerback with the hopes that all those draft picks you spent finally get a chance to come around.

Get7With7
10-02-2012, 11:33 AM
The Steelers want their rookies to sit and learn because of how "complex" LeBeau's schemes are. Looking at some of the other teams though, they put their rookies in and they play alright. Maybe not world-beaters right away, but they are certainly good enough to play. Those defensive systems obviously aren't as complex, yet they seem to be more effective than the Steelers defense. Perhaps it's time to just simplify things on this defense.

I think LeBeau has gained so much reverence within the Steelers organization that everyone, possibly even Art Rooney II, is too scared to tell him he needs to adjust.

LarryNJ
10-02-2012, 11:45 AM
Maybe the coaches feel that they want to play the best guy available no matter if he's a rookie or a 10 year vet. Let's look at our total defense the last 10 years.

11 - 1st
10 - 2nd
9 - 5th
8 - 1st
7 - 1st
6-9th
5- 4th
4- 1st
3-9th
2-7th

That's an average of 4th over the last 10 years. If you take just the last 5 years we averaged 2nd. I'd say that they have done something right.




The irony is, Dick LeBeau's defense is really hard to learn, unless you're an opposing offense. :evilshake:

That is gold! :lol:

coldrolled
10-02-2012, 12:22 PM
Hampton starting... case and point..

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Hampton starting... case and point..

That's pretty bad, I agree... He's a human bean bag getting tossed around..

SnakeEyes43
10-02-2012, 12:41 PM
LMAO! Maybe Carson Palmer can come tutor our young guys??

Haha, so true. We hear about how "tough" DL's schemes are to learn...maybe we just have dumb players!

Just kidding, but yes we are all getting sick of the "veteran mentality" simply becuase the old familair faces simply aren't producing, or aren't relibale anymore, yet MT refuses to stick in the young blood. Give them playing time, they can't be much worse, especially on the d-line!

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 12:48 PM
I'd rather kept Farrior over Hampton...

connecticutsteel
10-02-2012, 01:11 PM
I think mthis is only partailly true the part that i agree with is they should let the rookies play but since we always pick 25 or worse talent is the issue .It is easier to find talented offensive players they are all over college but defensive gems are harder to find .but i agree they should sit keisel and use him as a back up or cut him or any of the older players POlamalu will be hard to replace.but he is not irreplaceable.i think he's going to to retire after this year anyways there is something different about his interviews.I know he's always been quiet but he seems disinterested almost bored this year

Steelersfan
10-02-2012, 01:19 PM
I got to agree with Larry. It's not like the D has been terrible over the past decade. Sure it's had some bad games but it has had some great games too and has always been a top ten D.

IMO....The difference now between years past is the lack of a pass rush, turnovers and a decent running game.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Raleigh Steel
10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
the sad thing is we are wasting the prime of big ben's career. we stuck with BA for far too long and the defense was still good enough to win most games for us, and now the offense can actually move the ball and the D can't stop anybody.

and the last few years, those stats are misleading. especially last season. while the D technically did it's job reducing the yards and points it wasn't actually going up against top notch QB talent:

tavaris jackson
kerry collins/kurt painter
blaine gabbert (R)
andy dalton (R)
TYLER PALKO
colt mccoy

that's 8 games against sh*t talent and rookies.


the defensive problems are a nightmare from the top down:
Front office: refuses to go get the necessary pieces of the puzzle
Colbert: has not drafted well
Tomlin: sticks with shi**y vets over letting youngers guys get a shot
Lebeau: won't adjust to the talent that is around him. he's actually turning into the defensive BA. won't stick with what works and stays with things that don't....

BlitzburghRockCity
10-02-2012, 02:07 PM
That's basically my point. Over say a 10 year period the defense has been amazing. Then after SBXL III things started to come apart with injuries, free agency, and what have you. I think this team just hung onto the vets far too long, trying to concentrate on other areas in drafting but too many of those players didn't pan out. Then Tomlin comes in, they get one last hurrah with the Cowher hangovers in XLIII and the trickle down effect started to really become apparent. By then Tomlin only had a couple drafts under his belt, and by in large he brought in good players. The lack of replacements for the quickly diminishing talent wasn't enough to balance out.

During the Cowher years and into the Tomlin years, the defense is no worse than top 4 as Larry pointed out. You could see, or atleast I could but maybe didn't want to realize it, that things were slowly started to fall off. DB's having issues covering, intermittent problems against the run, little things that were left undone until it was too late.

There is big talent now though so it's not like the future is grim completely: Woodley, McClendon, Harrison still, Heyward, Timmons along with up and comers like Spence, Allen, and Lewis. All I am saying is don't wait until the older vets are too far gone before you try and prepare for the future with something other than a 6th round pick.

Real Deal Steel
10-02-2012, 02:35 PM
Linebacker and running back are the two positions that a guy coming in from college is supposed to be able to come right in and play. Yet, we can't seem to infuse the LB corps with new blood the way we want to and need to.

There has to be a change in La Beau's philosophies going forward. But Tomlin is really showing me a lack of leadership. It's very obvious to everyone that La Beau is a man out of touch with what's going on around him.

I want to see new, young blood on all three levels of the defense next year. Give these kids some heavy reps in the summer and camp and get them in that starting lineup. Adding one young guy at every level on the defense isn't asking too much.

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 02:36 PM
Another problem is, we have no LB on this roster worth a **** beside the two "starters"..

RIVERS OF STEEL
10-02-2012, 04:16 PM
Nothing to lose. A change has got to come.

scudmissile29
10-02-2012, 07:19 PM
I still believe we should of traded up to get Earl Thomas in 2010.

It would of sealed Polamalu's/Clark's position for the next 10 years whilst being a cornerback for his first 3 probably.

This defense has issues, and LeBeau isn't switching things up.

Real Deal Steel
10-02-2012, 07:56 PM
I still believe we should of traded up to get Earl Thomas in 2010.

It would of sealed Polamalu's/Clark's position for the next 10 years whilst being a cornerback for his first 3 probably.

This defense has issues, and LeBeau isn't switching things up.

Dick Le Beau still believes he's in the early 1990's.

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 08:03 PM
His defense is dated, this pansy tag football league requires a different approach. What's Dick is selling is no good anymore.

connecticutsteel
10-02-2012, 08:16 PM
Dick is adjusting just fine we don't just run a base 3-4 we run a 2-4-5 ,the big nickel ,dime we are just fine scheme wise the execution is the area of improvment.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-02-2012, 08:38 PM
I got to agree with Larry. It's not like the D has been terrible over the past decade. Sure it's had some bad games but it has had some great games too and has always been a top ten D.

IMO....The difference now between years past is the lack of a pass rush, turnovers and a decent running game.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Yea going by the stats from the past ten years the defense is fine.....But even last year despite the high ranking for the defense it still wasn't your typical Steelers defense.....I rather have a defense give up some yardage at times but can actually create a turn over or game changing play....A turn over or game changing play would have been the difference against the Raiders....Just one.......

Would be nice if some of the high paid players on D would actually earned their money at this point as well....But still the recent reports of Brandon Stokley and Carson Palmer knowing what to expect from our defense kind of proves that the Steelers defense is stale and predictable.......

Real Deal Steel
10-02-2012, 10:42 PM
Dick is adjusting just fine we don't just run a base 3-4 we run a 2-4-5 ,the big nickel ,dime we are just fine scheme wise the execution is the area of improvment.

Adjusting?????????????? To what?? What "adjustment" did he make in the Denver game??? He stays with the same game plan weather it's working or not. He has no plan B.

What adjustment did he make to the Raiders in the second half when they just started marching down the field? The Raiders wide receivers were made to look all world while Dick was instructing the corner backs to play off the wide receivers (as usual)
Dick is predictable. And he's slow to make (if any) adjustments.

LatrobePA
10-02-2012, 10:53 PM
He's adjusting nicely to losing... His defense isn't scary or effective anymore.

86WARD
10-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Dick is adjusting just fine we don't just run a base 3-4 we run a 2-4-5 ,the big nickel ,dime we are just fine scheme wise the execution is the area of improvment.

Uh...no.

steelchamp204
10-03-2012, 03:34 AM
Ive ranted about this ever since I joined this forum, I always said I would rather struggle with yougn talent than get beaten up with veterans. We have had alot of success this past decade, but this needs to change. Offense is fine, let Mcelendon/Heyward Taamu get some time in here. It would be nice to see, they are the future of this defensive front.

scudmissile29
10-03-2012, 11:44 AM
Dick Le Beau still believes he's in the early 1990's.

LOL and we could of got Maurkice as well, trade our 2011 and 12' away. got two studs in round 1.

I don't know why they just sit on their ****ing *** and not be aggressive apart from 2003.

I think we are the least team in the league that trades up in round 1.

we should use it sometime, like this coming draft for a cornerback. I like that 6"3 one David Amerson.

But of course what we will do --

Just draft guys that like to write blogs because he has great character, and not draft based on talent.

Big T
10-03-2012, 12:44 PM
LOL and we could of got Maurkice as well, trade our 2011 and 12' away. got two studs in round 1.

I don't know why they just sit on their ****ing *** and not be aggressive apart from 2003.

I think we are the least team in the league that trades up in round 1.

we should use it sometime, like this coming draft for a cornerback. I like that 6"3 one David Amerson.

But of course what we will do --

Just draft guys that like to write blogs because he has great character, and not draft based on talent.

Because pointing out a 7th round pick is obviously a great away to make your point about our 1st round drafting.

And your idea about trading our 2011 and 2012 1st round picks in 2010 is completely idiotic. I have a huge man-crush on Earl Thomas, but like I said, it's an idiotic idea. That means no Heyward, meaning no depth behind Ziggy f*cking Hood (which he'll eventually start over of the coaching staff gets their heads out of their asses) and Keisel. Also meaning that our D line (which the entire 3-4 depends on) would be in even worse position than it is now. It doesn't matter who's in the secondary in the D line is awful. And your idea would mean that our line would be in worse position because we wouldn't have DeCastro (who even after this knee injury will be a dominant guard) coming back into the lineup. Do you really want the O line to continue to look the way it does right now?

Use your head there chief ;)

scudmissile29
10-03-2012, 06:57 PM
Because pointing out a 7th round pick is obviously a great away to make your point about our 1st round drafting.

And your idea about trading our 2011 and 2012 1st round picks in 2010 is completely idiotic. I have a huge man-crush on Earl Thomas, but like I said, it's an idiotic idea. That means no Heyward, meaning no depth behind Ziggy f*cking Hood (which he'll eventually start over of the coaching staff gets their heads out of their asses) and Keisel. Also meaning that our D line (which the entire 3-4 depends on) would be in even worse position than it is now. It doesn't matter who's in the secondary in the D line is awful. And your idea would mean that our line would be in worse position because we wouldn't have DeCastro (who even after this knee injury will be a dominant guard) coming back into the lineup. Do you really want the O line to continue to look the way it does right now?

Use your head there chief ;)

Then we didn't need Pouncey and we needed Earl.

We won a Super Bowl with a porus offensive line but almost lost because of the secondary.

We won't go back to the Super Bowl without a good secondary.

Allen and Lewis aren't the answers.

HUNT4SEVEN
10-03-2012, 09:14 PM
Just feel the need to rant for a bit because nothing ever changes with our Steelers defense, but really the whole mentality surrounding this team in general. I admit we've been spoiled by some outstanding play over the last 10 years; back when Blitzburgh was truly Blitzburgh. When is it time for a change of thinking, I don't care who the coaches are.

I didn't see Mike Wallace sitting on the bench when he was drafted. Sanders and Brown were getting reps early on too. Mendenhall was thrown into the offensive gameplan right out of the gate, DeCastro was slated to start, the list goes on and on.

When is it going to be ok to allow that to happen on defense too??? Don't give me this, "the steeler defense is too hard to master" crap either anymore. I'm so tired of that excuse. Sure it's hard to learn, what isn't in the NFL. It's nothing more than a rationalization to hang onto veterans who need to be cut as much as it's having no faith in the talent you draft. When you sprinkle in new talent over time, you can live with the growing pains.

Cam Heyward is not doing anybody any good being a rotational player. Since when do you let a 1st round pick continue to play second fiddle to a guy ahead of him who's had more than enough time to develop and still isn't anything special?

Where is the linebacker drafting at? If Jason Worilds and Chris Carter are the best you got then something has been wrong way too long. I get that Sean Spence is going to be the future, and it sucks that he got hurt but drafting guys like him has been lacking to say the least.

The secondary right now, Safety in particular is ridiculous. The dropoff in play when Troy and Ryan aren't in there is beyond unacceptable. What is it going to take to draft their replacements? Why do we have to wait until the guy can barely move anymore before you consider finding someone else.

You could rationalize the fact that after SB XLIII, many of the players that were on the team after that win or are still on this team should have been replaced by now. That was their last hurrah. The loss to the Packers should have been more than enough to make them realize that. We were living on borrowed time with no depth and we got burned.

Let go, move on, let the young guys play and draft better talent. You live with the growing pains but the rewards are huge!!

Sincerely - a life long fan tired of the same old same old...

THANK YOU :clap::clap::clap: 20 plus years of the same schemes,it truly is time for a change...

Nolrog
10-04-2012, 02:19 AM
Many of these problems are the result of ****** high round drafting.

In 2010: Pouncey, Worlids, Sanders. Worlids should be the heir apparent to Harrison. But he's a 2nd round bust. Pouncey is very good, as is Sanders.

In 2009: Hood, Urbik, Wallace. Clearly a grand slam with Wallace. Urbik, not sure he even made the team. Now starts for Buffalo. Ziggy, decent player, but is he really first round talent?

2008: Mendenhal, Sweed, Bruce Davis. Horrible draft. Sweed, big time bust. Another wasted 2nd rounder. Bruce Davis, don't even remember him to comment,

2007: Great draft: Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth.

If they got, say as Jason Pierre-Paul in Ziiggy Hood, maybe they wouldn't have had to draft Heyward and could have used that pick elsewhere. If they got a Wallace in Sweed, maybe they could have picked a S instead of Wallace or Sanders.

I thought the last couple drafts were good, and this past one may be the best since 2007, but we absolutely cannot miss on 1s and 2s this often and expect to never dabble in FA to cover those misses. The 1 should be an excellent player, strong contributor, and the 2 should be a good solid player that holds a position for 5 years or more.