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View Full Version : Wallace Speed vs AB Agility & Vision vs Wards Intangibles?



Zachintosh66
07-28-2012, 03:18 PM
So i guess the question is would you rather have Wallace's Speed, AB's Agility and Vision or Wards Intangibles (Hands, Blocking, Toughness, Route Running)?

This should be a nice debate, who is going first?

BlitzburghRockCity
07-28-2012, 03:22 PM
I'll try this one on. The easiest thing to say is that I want a receiver that can do all of that but honestly there really isn't one in the NFL except for maybe Fitzgerald but he doesn't have Wallace's speed although most everything else he's got and then some.

I want Wallace back as much as anyone simply because the team spent 3 years developing him and now they could decide to trade him after all this mess. All 3 players had things to like about them.

If I had to pick between the 3 though, I don't just want Wallace because he's fast. Track stars a dime a dozen and until Mikey proves he can catch the ball in traffic consistently and be able to adjust consistently then I'd rather have Brown.

ChucktownSteeler
07-28-2012, 03:43 PM
For the complete body of work (and an intangible you don't mention) "heart", I will select Hines.

Call me old school, but Hines narrowly sqeaks out ahead of Antonio Brown. Ask me in a few years it may be different.

Who was the other player you mentioned?

C-town

tburg68
07-28-2012, 04:09 PM
Agility kills? Intangibles kills?........................

Oh yeah, I forgot, speed is overrated.

greennick
07-28-2012, 04:11 PM
For the complete body of work (and an intangible you don't mention) "heart", I will select Hines.

Call me old school, but Hines narrowly sqeaks out ahead of Antonio Brown. Ask me in a few years it may be different.

Who was the other player you mentioned?

C-town

As a pure slot receiver, definitely. But when you add in the return game, Brown has to be ahead.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

JensK
07-28-2012, 06:33 PM
Agility kills? Intangibles kills?........................

Oh yeah, I forgot, speed is overrated.

We get it.. You think Wallace is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. No need to keep banging your head against that wall.

OT: I think its a tough question. I would NEVER take Speed as the primary attribute of a WR. Sure, speed kills but if you cannot get open or catch the ball it is rather irrelevant. That said, out of the three you mention I would take Wallace all day. I love how clutch AB is, and I always admired Wards blocking, but Wallace is a better WR than either of them, primarily because he know how to use his speed to his advantage.

Second place I would pick Browns skillset. It is just flat out exciting to watch him play.

Steelersfan
07-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Hines all day at this point. Maybe someday down the road MW or AB can change my mind. Just not quite yet. Both are great young WRs.

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BlacknGold Bleeder
07-28-2012, 11:58 PM
.
If I had to pick between the 3 though, I don't just want Wallace because he's fast. Track stars a dime a dozen and until Mikey proves he can catch the ball in traffic consistently and be able to adjust consistently then I'd rather have Brown.

This sums up the whole Wallace issue !!

Now onto the question at hand...I'll take Hines as of now, AB has to have some more improvment in his game before he can over take Hines,imho.

BlitzburghRockCity
07-29-2012, 12:39 AM
I'll take Hines up until 2 years ago. Last year you could see that even though he was a gamer and didn't see the field much, it just wasn't the same as we've seen him in the past. Father time takes no prisoners and is undefeated.

In the long run I'm anxious to see who pans out better, AB or Wallace

Nolrog
07-29-2012, 02:10 PM
Ward without question.

NorCalSteel
07-29-2012, 02:29 PM
AB is Very fast he has that second gear. Remember the kickoff return against the titans. Sanders is very fast..we need Wallace back..Sanders and AB have great hands..if Wallace gets back in soon this is probably one of the fastest teams we have ever had in recent history..zoom zoom..btw Loved wards love of the game..I want it all..lol

BlitzburghRockCity
07-30-2012, 10:48 AM
This whole Wallace thing reminds me so much of the Mendenhall vs Redman debate. Who's better? Mendenhall is still the more accomplished receiver but to date the more consistent ground game comes from Redman because of the poor OL.


If Mendy gets back to form and is able to play behind a good group then that's a different story.


Same with Wallace, all the potential in the world but it's an all or nothing deal with him. He's still a one trick pony like Tomlin said going into 2011. Right now AB is going to get you more of those short to intermediate routes consistently than Wallace will.

K Train
07-30-2012, 11:02 AM
I'll try this one on. The easiest thing to say is that I want a receiver that can do all of that but honestly there really isn't one in the NFL except for maybe Fitzgerald but he doesn't have Wallace's speed although most everything else he's got and then some.

I want Wallace back as much as anyone simply because the team spent 3 years developing him and now they could decide to trade him after all this mess. All 3 players had things to like about them.

If I had to pick between the 3 though, I don't just want Wallace because he's fast. Track stars a dime a dozen and until Mikey proves he can catch the ball in traffic consistently and be able to adjust consistently then I'd rather have Brown.
calvin johnson does it all, and has the speed to go with it.

also, to say a guy like wallace falls into the dime a dozen category holds zero truth. we dont just see WRs like him popping up every year, even nate washington wasnt a dime a dozen with his speed and hes not half as good as wallace

For the complete body of work (and an intangible you don't mention) "heart", I will select Hines.

Call me old school, but Hines narrowly sqeaks out ahead of Antonio Brown. Ask me in a few years it may be different.

Who was the other player you mentioned?

C-town
"heart" lol, why because he smiles all the time? give me a break. You cant just say ward has more heart than any of the current WRs just because he did what he was good at (blocking, 3rd down, possession WR). All players should specialize in what they are good at, wards was underneath stuff, safety valve, run blocking. Brown is best at improvising, returning, open field running, and fearlessness over the middle, which is what he does most for us. wallace is best at going deep and adjusting to the ball over his shoulder, which is what he does for us, sanders is best at running the route tree (which btw ward was never that good at, he was more good at finding soft spots in zone coverage)

LarryNJ
07-30-2012, 12:35 PM
The easiest thing to say is that I want a receiver that can do all of that but honestly there really isn't one in the NFL except for maybe Fitzgerald


Calvin Johnson :)

I'd go with Ward but the 2 young bucks certainly have the potential to change my reply.

tburg68
07-30-2012, 02:48 PM
Wallace has a great ability to adjust to a deep ball in flight. That is not a one trick pony. He takes the secondary deep and also makes them account for the deep ball every play. This opens up the field not only for other receivers, but for himself as well.

If that's a one trick pony, I'll take it every time.

ChucktownSteeler
07-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Wallace has a great ability to adjust to a deep ball in flight. That is not a one trick pony. He takes the secondary deep and also makes them account for the deep ball every play. This opens up the field not only for other receivers, but for himself as well.

If that's a one trick pony, I'll take it every time.

Nobody is saying it's a bad trick or that being a one trick pony is bad. Actually, it's a good trick.

Real Deal Steel
08-07-2012, 09:05 AM
Here is what Evan Silva of Rotoworld had to say about Brown vs. Wallace:



Mike Wallace vs. Antonio Brown

For the first time ever, the NFL has made All-22 Coaches Tape available to the public, as part of its Game Rewind package. The Coaches Tape is called "All 22" because it allows us to see all 22 offensive and defensive players in one picture. NFL.com's package provides two shots of each snap, the first from a higher sideline angle and the second from the end zone. We can actually see the safeties, and receivers' full routes. You can't see those things watching the games on T.V.

I took my first crack at the All-22 Tape last night, watching three Steelers games: Week 8 versus New England, Week 15 at San Francisco, and Pittsburgh's Wild Card round loss to the Broncos. I wanted to learn more about Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown. Wallace wanted big money this offseason. Brown got it, and the Steelers are letting unsigned holdout Wallace twist in the wind.

I wound up viewing about 225 snaps and 30 targets of Wallace, and 180 snaps and 30-something targets of Brown. (Brown wasn't quite an every-down player, even during his hot stretch run.) And I think the Steelers are going to sorely miss their best offensive weapon, if they continue to play hardball with him.

Though sometimes billed as a one-trick pony deep threat, Wallace beat the defense in the three games on a variety of patterns. He ran comebacks, drags, and screens in addition to fly routes, and regularly looked like the best player on the field. Wallace is a skinny receiver, but he runs well after the catch, and that was particularly evident in the 49ers game. The Broncos primarily used top cornerback Champ Bailey in coverage of Wallace in the playoffs, while Brown squared off with Andre’ Goodman. Denver released Goodman this offseason. Against New England, the Pats consistently placed two to three defenders in Wallace's vicinity. Bill Belichick was worried about him.

I can't speak responsibly to route running because I don't know the play calls and assignments, but Wallace did seem to round off his patterns and freelance on occasion. I think the bottom line is that Wallace got open downfield more than any other Steelers receiver. It's probably safe to say that's a good thing.

Wallace is a dynamic player -- much more so than Brown. "60 Minutes" keeps the defense on its heels. Because Wallace so often requires two or even three defenders in his area, the field opens up for others. Brown is a good player, a really good receiver who plays at a crisp pace and has earned Ben Roethlisberger's trust. Brown has sure hands and is capable of highlight-reel catches.

But Wallace is a great player. An every-snap difference maker. And here's guessing that's why the Steelers are refusing to trade him. The Pittsburgh offense won't be the same without him.

K Train
08-07-2012, 10:12 AM
ive been saying that since, idk, 2010

steelcitysfinestXL
08-07-2012, 10:44 AM
ive been saying that since, idk, 2010

Exactly! Maybe an outside perspective will help some people understand how valuable Mike really is. I'm not saying we'd tank without him. We are just MUCH better with him! I don't expect him to sign that tender until atleast TC is over and the team reports to South Side.

Big T
08-07-2012, 11:03 AM
Pretty much what we've been saying all along lol.

FlatsSteeler
08-07-2012, 11:15 AM
AB....He has almost as much speed as MW17....and....His hands, agility, and instincts will only get better with seasoning...AB for sure....

Big T
08-07-2012, 11:25 AM
AB....He has almost as much speed as MW17....and....His hands, agility, and instincts will only get better with seasoning...AB for sure....

He's not almost as fast lol. AB's got some speed but he's quicker than fast. It's no contest.

K Train
08-07-2012, 11:26 AM
wallace could give brown a 5 yard head start and still smoke him. "Almost as much speed" is a reach

FlatsSteeler
08-07-2012, 12:23 PM
He's not almost as fast lol. AB's got some speed but he's quicker than fast. It's no contest.

That is if Wallace's agent allowed him to race without some insane fee......

Real Deal Steel
08-07-2012, 03:49 PM
That is if Wallace's agent allowed him to race without some insane fee......


Wallace's agent dissavowed doing any of this. The agent said Wallace is doing this all on his own valition.

ChucktownSteeler
08-07-2012, 07:47 PM
Wallace's agent dissavowed doing any of this. The agent said Wallace is doing this all on his own valition.

Wallace is calling the shots!

BlitzburghRockCity
08-08-2012, 09:10 AM
wallace could give brown a 5 yard head start and still smoke him. "Almost as much speed" is a reach


Brown was the slowest of the 3 coming out of college, although slow is relative when you're talking speed demons like these guys. No Wallace would smoke Brown, but I'd be Sanders could keep it closer than people think.

Hines in his prime could have a 30 yd head start and Wallace would still smoke him..LOL

The Lakelander
08-08-2012, 01:56 PM
Hines Ward? ... Lynn Swann? ... John Stallworth? ... on numbers alone Hines was the greatest ... but who can really argue that Hines was "greater" than Swanny? ...

Frank Gore just surpassed Terrell Davis on the all-time charts ...

Loved Hines! ... what a true Iron Man! ...

For me it's a similar argument regarding Wallace, Brown and Ward ... it hardly even makes sense to want to go there ... they are all special in their own right ...