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View Full Version : It's time for Tomlin to be a "Head Coach" when it comes to Big Ben



BlitzburghRockCity
01-13-2012, 12:53 PM
It's time for Tomlin to be a Head Coach!

So you read that and you say, what? He's already the Steelers Head Coach! As a title, yes he's the coach butwhen it comes to managing Ben Roethlisber, not so much.

Big Ben is no doubt a top 5 QB in the NFL today, and has been for several years now. You don't get to 3 Super Bowls in your first 7 years in the league, and win 2 of them, for nothing. His big play ability is among the best in the league, right up there with Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. His ability to make something out of nothing though, that puts Ben in a class all by himself. I challenge any of those other 3 names to play behind the tin foil offensive line that Ben has had to play under his career, and be equally as successful.

We can go on and on about how good Ben is, how tough he is, but the fact is he underachieved in 2011 when you compare him to the other "big 3" as I like to call them. It's not for a lack of weapons; Roethlisberger has Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Hines Ward, and Heath Miller to throw too. Arguably one of the best receiving corps in the league today.

Is it the running game? He's got one of those too, although due to the poor offensive line it hasn't been as efficient as the team would like. Also the offensive philosophy for this team is to pass and get down field, and use the run game as a compliment. The coaches will tell you different but the fact is the Steelers are a passing team, we all know. So basically Ben is a great QB, we all know, he's got the firepower around him but something is still missing...a coach to keep it all under control.

So onto the topic at hand, if Mike Tomlin wants to lead his team to another championship his management of Ben has to improve. You can't sit back and let the doctors tell you what to do when he gets hurt. If they say, "well he probably won't get any worse" or "he should be ok, he's tough" or anything of that nature you don't just throw up your hands and say "ok Ben you can play this weekend". You certainly take the doctors advice into consideration, after all the Steelers have one of the best team doctors on their staff, Joseph Maroon. Their training staff headed up by John Norwig is considered top flight as well. Tomlin routinely talks about leaving it up to the medical staff to decide, and that's fine to a certain extent.

If Ben can't do what he does then you simply don't play him. If he's going to refuse to change his game and be who he is then you don't put him out on the field when he can't escape pressure, put weight on the bad ankle to step into throws, or be able to shake off a 260 lb. linebacker rushing up the middle. In hindsight, playing Ben against the 49ers was a bad move, so was playing him in the Cleveland game. The 49ers relentlessly harassed Ben on their home turf and he was powerless to escape it. The Browns can bring pressure too, and they did so continuously.

I know an improved seed in the playoffs was at stake against San Francisco, but was it worth reinjuring your star QB? You already had the playoffs sewn up, and maybe a more healthy Ben performs better down the stretch if you sit him. The same goes for the final game of the season, if you trust Charlie Batch to play against the Rams then you trust him to play against the Browns. Tomlin needs to stop listening to Ben when it comes to these types of injuries and just be the Head Coach and sit him on the bench. It's not worth risking long term health for 1 game, regardless of the stakes. The Steelers paid the price, and no it wasn't all Ben's fault but if he's healthy then maybe things are different the rest of the way? If you remember back in one of Tomlin's recent press conferences he stated that he doesn't want to take the away the chance for Ben to compete. Well, that's your job, to make that call when it's not in the best interest of him and the team. The same can also be said for Maurkice Pouncey who's ankle injury should have warranted a spot on the sidelines in week 17, and then maybe he's able to come back against Denver.

The point is, Mike Tomlin has areas to improve in, such as his game management and Ben is a part of that scenario. His use of timeouts or other situational decisions are another story but when it comes to Ben, Tomlin needs to be the head coach and make the tough call.

Real Deal Steel
01-13-2012, 01:38 PM
Tomlin needs to be a head coach across the board.

Tomlin needs th give Arians an ultimatum to upgrade his play calling or your out of here.
Then he needs to tell Lebeau, " You need to have an alternative game plan when the initial game plan isn't working."

Tomlin needs to be a REAL coach. Period.

chisteeler
01-13-2012, 01:47 PM
Good point on managing Ben's health, but I also think that Tomlin needs to better manage his staff and their effectiveness. The obvious one being BA. We have talked this issue to death and the only way Ben's health and effectiveness can improve are to make the necessary changes to propel Ben into the Brady, Rogers and Brees category. Colbert needs to also address the offensive line needs or Ben will continuously be hurt, forcing Tomlin to make bone headed decisions concerning his longevity and desire to compete.

OldSchool58
01-13-2012, 02:06 PM
I've questioned his decision making on more than one occasion especially when it comes to stepping up and taking control of the entire Steelers team. But, I'm wondering just how much of a leash he's on as far as making some of those decisions. I like Tomlin and really want to give him the benifit of the doubt.......maybe DR has not fully given him control over everything.....kinda like Jerry Jones? I dunno, you guys in Pittsburgh would know more about that than me.

LatrobePA
01-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Ben is a top 10 for me right now. BUT with some direction and good playcalling he could be top 5 IMO...

BlitzburghRockCity
01-13-2012, 02:46 PM
I will admit, I can see the point of playing Ben in that 49ers game because of what was on the line. I was at one point in favor of it but while the game was going on it and it was clear the Steelers were getting pounded, that's when you pull him. If you're going to start him when he's hobbled you better be ready to yank him out if things go south.

One thing that bugs me is some of the high and mighty media or even some fans who will sit there and say that Arians' gameplanning is great and they'll say, well you went to all those super bowls with him at the helm, blah blah blah. The team won inspite of the glaring issues it had. Credit the players for being exceptional and yes some credit goes to the game plan. The problem is as we've said a million times before, it's not the gameplan between the 20s that's the problem. It's the redzone and situational offense that has killed this team for years. It hasn't gotten better consistently.

Watching him coach this team just drives me bonkers because you know the last 2 minutes of the first half or the 4th quarter is going to give you a heart attack watching them botch timeouts, call the wrong plays, drop passes you name it.

As far as Ben's health goes though, after all this time I really think Tomlin is just so jaded towards Ben's toughness that he's willing to keep him out there in almost any situation and lets Ben dictate what he wants to do when it comes to anything less than a head injury.

Real Deal Steel
01-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Ben is a top 10 for me right now. BUT with some direction and good playcalling he could be top 5 IMO...


Any idiot can see that in the passing game, they need to install three step drop passes to get the ball out of Ben's hands. That's been needed for 3 years now but Tomlin doesn't have the nuts to tell Arians to install that into the office.

That three step drop/slant pass should have BEEN in the offense. On a regular basis. That's how you utilize your weapons to the maximum potential. Can you imagine Wallace running that slant pattern??? One missed tackle and it's a sixty yard TD!!

LatrobePA
01-13-2012, 03:03 PM
Any idiot can see that in the passing game, they need to install three step drop passes to get the ball out of Ben's hands. That's been needed for 3 years now but Tomlin doesn't have the nuts to tell Arians to install that into the office.

That three step drop/slant pass should have BEEN in the offense. On a regular basis. That's how you utilize your weapons to the maximum potential. Can you imagine Wallace running that slant pattern??? One missed tackle and it's a sixty yard TD!!

Absolutely, with AB and Cotchery.. I've said it before with BA too much time is spent looking deep.

connecticutsteel
01-13-2012, 03:14 PM
The issue isn't tomlin or ben it is lack of confidence in our back up QB's we should have drafted one last year the kid from wisconsin.if we did that maybe we beat the niner's?once we qualified for the playoffs he should have been shut down . In the event that we won and made it to the super bowl .

Raleigh Steel
01-13-2012, 03:34 PM
before the 49ers game, charlie got all or most of the reps in practice. i said at the time, given how ben's ankle was hurt (and it's amazing that there was no bone broken) you can't come back from that in 11 days. sorry...ain't gonna happen.

give charlie a full week + of practice, plus the rest of the team knows they have to rally around him and step up their individual game, and the steelers had a better shot at beating the niners than with ben starting. plus, even if we did lose with charlie then ben had 3 weeks of rehabbing to heal that ankle. would he have been 100%? probably not, but you don't get healthier staying off it, then playing on it, then staying off it, then playing on it....

same goes with pouncey...why did he try to go back into the browns game? why did he try to play in the 2nd browns game? if your hurt, your hurt!

like real deal said, tomlin needs to be a head coach across the board. right now he's more of a middle manager!

Blazedby92
01-13-2012, 08:30 PM
It all starts with the FO, who knows they may have the final say with any decision so either if we see MT makeing bad calls either in the game or personnel most likely FO sees it OR FO make the decisions about the other side of the game, then that goes to ownership to decide then they need to put their foot down or depart ways with FO and MT's decisions.

Start's at the top

By the way the man did help takes us to 2 SB and we make the playoffs every year are we that spoiled that now we expect nothing less than a SB, I say yes

LatrobePA
01-13-2012, 08:44 PM
I'm over Tomlin and current staff!!

Diehardsteel
01-13-2012, 09:11 PM
I will admit, I can see the point of playing Ben in that 49ers game because of what was on the line.

Me too, until I saw Big Ben warming up, if you could even call it that. I was stunned they put him out there after seeing the lack of mobility in the freaking warmups! A complete joke IMO.



I'm over Tomlin and current staff!!

Sadly, so am I.

LatrobePA
01-13-2012, 09:19 PM
Ben is a top 10 for me right now. BUT with some direction and good playcalling he could be top 5 IMO...


Me too, until I saw Big Ben warming up, if you could even call it that. I was stunned they put him out there after seeing the lack of mobility in the freaking warmups! A complete joke IMO.




Sadly, so am I.

It's a shame really, all he'd have to do is man up!!

LevonKirkland99
01-13-2012, 09:36 PM
I'm over Tomlin and current staff!!

Really? wow, I mean give the guy a couple more years... Yeah, he made mistakes this year with clock mgmt...etc, but I still take him over Cowher at the same timeline Cowher was coach.

LatrobePA
01-13-2012, 10:28 PM
Show me you're in charge Mike! What has he done to prove this? Putting an old washed up WR on the bench??? Not enough for me!!

LevonKirkland99
01-13-2012, 11:18 PM
Show me you're in charge Mike! What has he done to prove this? Putting an old washed up WR on the bench??? Not enough for me!!

No reason to whine because we went all the way to Denver and got Tebowed by and 8-8 team...Tomline doesn't play the game...Our defense was average all year long and we couldn't stop Mickey mouse if he was running.

LatrobePA
01-14-2012, 09:44 AM
Not whining just stating a fact.. He's a puss that gets coached by his players!

JensK
01-14-2012, 10:06 AM
He should have gotten rid of BA, we all agree on that. Other than that though I think Tomlin is a pretty great headcoach for us. We have to remember, he is young and still have a lot to learn in terms of being a HC. We cannot expect him to bring us to the Superbowl every year. Does that mean we should just mindlessly accept what he is doing? Of course not, but in my opinion it is not the time to be calling for his head either. There are PLENTY of examples in the NFL with teams canning to coach only to find themselves loosing even more afterwards.

If you start asking the question as to whether or not Tomlin should be fired, you open a can of worms. If he should go, so should pretty much all of Steelers staff. You had to fire all of the condition coaches and medical staff for not doing a good enough job to keep the players healthy. You'd have to fire Colbert for not bringing in enough talent through the draft on key positions, thus allowing this team to get old without having enough quality behind them. You could keep on firing people and then start rebuilding the entire staff... Does anyone honestly believe that would make us any better than now?

Raleigh Steel
01-14-2012, 10:37 AM
jensk, i don't think anyone (maybe some) is calling for tomlin to be fired. i just think we see where his weaknesses lie and where he can improve on being a head coach.

to me, i feel like he has no balls and doesn't take charge of the team. he relies entirely on his coordinators and doesn't step in when things aren't going well and is content on seeing the same thing over and over again.

"the standard is the standard" and "we don't win pretty" just aren't cutting it. why can't we win pretty once in a while? i think he does as great job at coach speak, but i'm seriously starting do doubt his ability to be the HEAD COACH we need. but that's where we want him to improve...at least it's where i want him to improve.

LatrobePA
01-14-2012, 11:34 AM
Right on I don't have a problem with him as a coach more a leader.

He wears the leash and the players lead him!

LevonKirkland99
01-14-2012, 12:11 PM
Tomlin gives the impression that he doesn't want to criticise his own players and coaches. He was NOT impressive this year, but I hope he can only get better from here.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-14-2012, 05:38 PM
Indeed, he won't criticize anyone openly. I can see that to a point but if they continue to no produce or make the same mistakes over and over the message clearly isn't getting through in practice either.

NYCsteelersfan
01-14-2012, 10:44 PM
The issue isn't tomlin or ben it is lack of confidence in our back up QB's we should have drafted one last year the kid from wisconsin.if we did that maybe we beat the niner's?once we qualified for the playoffs he should have been shut down . In the event that we won and made it to the super bowl .

This makes little sense. The backup quarterback, whoever it may be, it just as likely to get brutalized behind this offensive line as Roethlisberger.

The problem isn't just Roethlisberger's injury. The problem is how and why he was injured. We've had the same $hit offensive line for 5 years now. As bad as Arians is, not even a new coordinator will make a difference without this line being fixed.


Our defense was average all year long and we couldn't stop Mickey mouse if he was running.

This makes zero sense considering where the Steelers defense finished this season.

LevonKirkland99
01-14-2012, 10:51 PM
This makes little sense. The backup quarterback, whoever it may be, it just as likely to get brutalized behind this offensive line as Roethlisberger.

The problem isn't just Roethlisberger's injury. The problem is how and why he was injured. We've had the same $hit offensive line for 5 years now. As bad as Arians is, not even a new coordinator will make a difference without this line being fixed.



This makes zero sense considering where the Steelers defense finished this season.

NYSteeler, I read your arguments against Tomlin, and I'm not gonna go there....he was out-coached this year since the first game. But let's hope he gets better from here.

Our Defense was not impressive this year, we couldn't stop the run all year long. You can't blame this on Tomlin, can you?

jnes1216
01-14-2012, 10:56 PM
[QUOTE=NYCsteelersfan;475468]This makes little sense. The backup quarterback, whoever it may be, it just as likely to get brutalized behind this offensive line as Roethlisberger.

The problem isn't just Roethlisberger's injury. The problem is how and why he was injured. We've had the same $hit offensive line for 5 years now. As bad as Arians is, not even a new coordinator will make a difference without this line being fixed.


I agree on the backup QB point, the off. line definitely needs some depth. The front office has made a nice start in trying to draft new talent into the off. and def. lines and we need to continue this for the next 3-4 years. Every year its the same old problem with injuries and age. 1st, 2nd, rd picks should be lineman on either side of the ball unless they're a reach. A FA starter wouldn't hurt but we all know that's not the usual way they do things. Let's keep our QB healthy by protecting him, not by adding more targets now that we have a good WR core, etc.

LatrobePA
01-14-2012, 11:03 PM
Lots of local diehard fans not please w Tomlin, not just 20-30 of us out here!!

NYCsteelersfan
01-15-2012, 12:16 AM
NYSteeler, I read your arguments against Tomlin, and I'm not gonna go there....he was out-coached this year since the first game. But let's hope he gets better from here.

Our Defense was not impressive this year, we couldn't stop the run all year long. You can't blame this on Tomlin, can you?

Do you know where the team was ranked in points allowed? And do you know where they were ranked in run defense? Whatever deficiencies the defense has, it's due to personnel. Tomlin is in charge of personnel.


NYSteeler, I read your arguments against Tomlin, and I'm not gonna go there....

You can go there, I don't mind. I've said it several times and I'll never stop thinking it. Tomlin was hired because the Rooneys felt they needed to publicly (and possibly privately) support the Rooney Rule. Does that mean there aren't good Black head coaches? Of course not. I would take Dungy over almost any other head coach in the league. Tomlin on the other hand is in over his head.

jnes1216
01-15-2012, 12:28 AM
Do you know where the team was ranked in points allowed? And do you know where they were ranked in run defense? Whatever deficiencies the defense has, it's due to personnel. Tomlin is in charge of personnel.



You can go there, I don't mind. I've said it several times and I'll never stop thinking it. Tomlin was hired because the Rooneys felt they needed to publicly (and possibly privately) support the Rooney Rule. Does that mean there aren't good Black head coaches? Of course not. I would take Dungy over almost any other head coach in the league. Tomlin on the other hand is in over his head.

He definitely needs to be sat down by the front office and talked to about his deficiencies. I liked that LeBeau was here when he was hired because of his inexperience and I remember how he put his foot on the throttle the first training camp/preseason to show his authority or whatever, but the second year he let off considerably due to the team's age etc. I don't think he's put the "throttle" down when needed ever since then. supposedly we're built for the playoffs but I don't see the difference in mentality from the regular season to the post season. I thought we came out flat in the super bowl and also in this year's loss. A complacent veteran team who is tired where hungry young players are playing second fiddle to vets who are spent due to injuries and playoff runs of years past.

NYCsteelersfan
01-15-2012, 12:32 AM
I thought we came out flat in the super bowl and also in this year's loss. A complacent veteran team who is tired where hungry young players are playing second fiddle to vets who are spent due to injuries and playoff runs of years past.

Your second point could be a possible factor, but I think the issue is more a matter of your first point. The team comes out flat against good teams because the offense's sever deficiencies are exposed and Tomlin is badly out-coached.

coldrolled
01-15-2012, 06:39 AM
Your second point could be a possible factor, but I think the issue is more a matter of your first point. The team comes out flat against good teams because the offense's sever deficiencies are exposed and Tomlin is badly out-coached.

Its simple.... FIRE ARIANS......

Game Plan according to your strengths.

Slants, Crossing Routes, FB in the flat, RB in the flat, TE over the middle..

FIRE ARIANS...

We now have 83, 17, 89, 86, 84, 82 we have 34, 31, 33, 85 with hands.

Wait lets all run down the field 20 yards... :thinking:

F(*^&*^*&^&^&*^CK

:eek1::cursin::eek1:

LatrobePA
01-15-2012, 09:46 AM
After watching the 31st ranked defense completely handle Tebow I now believe both dick and Bruce should be gone! As a head coach how in the hell did you let that happen?

If I were Tomlin I'd go into hiding!!

LevonKirkland99
01-15-2012, 01:03 PM
After watching the 31st ranked defense completely handle Tebow I now believe both dick and Bruce should be gone! As a head coach how in the hell did you let that happen?

If I were Tomlin I'd go into hiding!!

I'd say keep LeBeau fro one more year, as he will retire in the near future anyways. You want to keep the continuity on Defense...

LatrobePA
01-15-2012, 01:19 PM
I'm ok with DL but some youth needs to be added in this season.