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View Full Version : Have we seen the best of Ben?



steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 01:22 AM
I mean I dont see Ben getting any better than what he is now. Yea you can blame the injuries to him for not performing but it seems like he has hit his ceiling. He still takes sacks that cost us field position, he still hasnt learned to throw the ball away depending on certain situations. He had a first half of the season which was decent but not really an impressive second half. Im not saying we trade the guy or whatever but with this defense going into a transition here probably next year he is gonna have to be lights out if he ever wants to get back to the superbowl and win one again. We have seen Peyton,Brees,Brady carry there teams with bad defenses time in and time out year after year. I dont think the steelers defense will be horrid but I also dont see them being as good as they have been in the past year. So more is gonna have to be on Ben managing a smart game and putting up more points. I knwo this also can depend on how good our O-line is and our run game so Im not trying to bash him at all. I just wish Ben would use his check downs more and maybe get rid of the ball when he knows he doesnt have a play(which I dont think he will ever do cause of past success extending plays) but with him getting older thats gonna get harder each year as it goes on from here on out.

So my question to you guys is. Do you think Ben has hit his ceiling as a QB?

Destossel
01-09-2012, 03:01 AM
No. He needs a better o line, running game and play calling. He's an elite QB who does not have an elite offense. He has not had a real line since 2005. Ben is what....29 ? Look at Brady, Manning etc who still can play at a high level and are 6 or 7 years older.

uclkyle
01-09-2012, 04:16 AM
Ummm, no. The guy could barely walk! The guy is second only to Brady in the AFC. He's fine. He's the LEAST of our worries.

DBR96A
01-09-2012, 04:42 AM
Do you think Ben has hit his ceiling as a QB?

Did Drew Brees hit his ceiling as a QB in 2005?

As far as I'm concerned, Brees is proof of how much coaching matters. Under the guidance of Marty Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron in San Diego, he became a good QB, but was still considered to be an also-ran. It's under the guidance of Sean Payton in New Orleans that he became a star. In hindsight, it's easy to see that Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron didn't help Brees reach his full potential the way Sean Payton has. (It's also worth noting that Cam Cameron is responsible for Joe Flacco's development, and we all see how well that's going.)

Like Cam Cameron with Drew Brees, Bruce Arians has not gotten the most out of Ben Roethlisberger, and he never will. What we need is to find an offensive coordinator who can get the most out of Roethlisberger the way Sean Payton has out of Brees, and the way Mike McCarthy has out of Aaron Rodgers, for that matter. Plain and simple, when you combine a great QB with a great teacher of offense, you get Rodgers and contemporary Brees. When you combine a great QB with a mediocre teacher of offense, you get Roethlisberger and early Brees.

I'm actually very upset that Arians has wasted five years in the prime of Roethlisberger's career, which is why this loss to the Broncos doesn't sting. The moment the game was over, Arians' contract expired, which gives the Steelers a golden opportunity to find a teacher of offense who can get the most out of Roethlisberger. And think about this: if Roethlisberger can still be one of the five best QBs in the NFL in spite of Arians, then just imagine how good he'd be with somebody who can design an offense properly, sense the flow of a game and call the right plays accordingly, make adjustments based on matchups and tendencies, and challenge his players to be better.

Give Roethlisberger an offensive coordinator who's more than mediocre, and he'd be a perennial MVP candidate too, just like Brees and Rodgers are.

MattyVfromCT
01-09-2012, 05:48 AM
No way. Talent isn't enough. COACHING is the most important factor in this game. Without question this year's offense was more talented than our 08 team yet we scored fewer points with a much easier schedule. With all the talent we had on offense and to only be ranked 22nd in points scored is an absolute joke. I will only find positives from this game if BA is shitcanned........

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steelersgal86
01-09-2012, 07:26 AM
not by far...ben is a beast...you could tell he was in alot of pain yesterday and the past few games...now he will rest up get better for next season

Nolrog
01-09-2012, 07:37 AM
No. He needs a better o line, running game and play calling. He's an elite QB who does not have an elite offense. He has not had a real line since 2005. Ben is what....29 ? Look at Brady, Manning etc who still can play at a high level and are 6 or 7 years older.

I agree completely. He also needs to make better decisions and not force the ball so much and sometimes throw it away and not take the sack.

JoeSteelerFan
01-09-2012, 07:39 AM
No. He needs a better o line, running game and play calling. He's an elite QB who does not have an elite offense.

He has not had a real line since 2005. Ben is what....29 ? Look at Brady, Manning etc who still can play at a high level and are 6 or 7 years older.


:iagree:
THIS
:plus1:

UKSTEELER
01-09-2012, 07:57 AM
with a different Co-ordinator there is hope . . .

with Arians, he will only regress, he's obviously having it far too easy, he wanted to play last night and he did, he played poorly, we lost.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 09:33 AM
NO, but without some help he'll be done soon!

Oline, we all love to point fingers at but Ben holds the damn ball way too long, same old song and dance right?

OC, playcalling was horrid 90% of the year and got 20x's worse once Ben was hurt. Bruce will not adjust. We need a FB and a whole new playbook next season!

K Train
01-09-2012, 09:35 AM
no, gimpy ben is a shaky ben....i thought he played very well all things considered...misfit line, no RB, and a bad ankle....meh

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 09:38 AM
I just think he needs coached and not a BFF OC! Ben is the one constantly looking for the deep homerun, take what the D gives you and roll with it..

K Train
01-09-2012, 09:40 AM
I just think he needs coached and not a BFF OC! Ben is the one constantly looking for the deep homerun, take what the D gives you and roll with it..

ben looks for the homerun, arians looks for the screen...match made in heaven!

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 09:42 AM
ben looks for the homerun, arians looks for the screen...match made in heaven!

LOL, one goes downfield and one goes back, pick your poison!

So what # pick in the draft do we have and what do we look for?

cbyzerman
01-09-2012, 09:42 AM
I am still shocked that no one talks about this. Ben can not throw the ball over 30 yds with any accuracy. He has missed these guys all yr long. Either he over throws or under throws. With these type of receivers maybe bens not the guy.

coldrolled
01-09-2012, 09:47 AM
I just think he needs coached and not a BFF OC! Ben is the one constantly looking for the deep homerun, take what the D gives you and roll with it..

the last drive.... move the chains... crap the whole game, go for first downs please.

ben threw 5 or 6 balls in the game like plaxico was out there... for what ???

move the chains...

I never usually complain about tomlin. but maybe he needs to go and he should stick bruce in his suitcase..

that was some real bad game planning.

and get rid of the old men already... especially injured old men.
they held joey ALOT BUT COME ON MAN...

Ike was hurt?? he looked a bit faster than farrior...

:rant2::rant2::rant2::rant2:

steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 10:06 AM
No. He needs a better o line, running game and play calling. He's an elite QB who does not have an elite offense. He has not had a real line since 2005. Ben is what....29 ? Look at Brady, Manning etc who still can play at a high level and are 6 or 7 years older.

Disagree. He's not an elite quarterback who does not have an elite offense. He's an elite quarterback who DOES have an elite offense but isn't being allowed to utilize it because he's being handcuffed by the OC.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 10:09 AM
It's just time for change, like I said Ben needs to be coached not the one coaching!

Nolrog
01-09-2012, 10:13 AM
He doesn't have time. The defense is on top of him too fast to give the receivers time to get down field.

Plus, IMO, the game planning is poor and doesn't help free guys up deep.

Ben is absolutely the guy.

He's already taken us to 3 SuperBowls and has won 2 (even though he didn't play well in the first, he played really well in the games leading up to that.) So he's not the guy to do what he's done 3 times already.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 10:15 AM
He has time to throw it away but he doesn't, check the fn thing down and live for another play!

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-09-2012, 10:18 AM
This can't be a serious thread... How many drops did we have? When is Wallace gonnna actually work for a catch? He' s throwing on a bad ankle and cant get the accuracy quite as perfect as usual, but to say he cant make a throw over 30 yds is ridiculous!!

Scorp
01-09-2012, 11:23 AM
Ben has a high school qbs arm. He really needs to improve, go back to his roots and find what made him an NFL qb.

K Train
01-09-2012, 11:45 AM
Ben has a high school qbs arm. He really needs to improve, go back to his roots and find what made him an NFL qb.

you mean his elite mobility and elusiveness in the pocket? the same mobility that was cut in half with a gimpy ankle...he was the walking woulnded yesterday, these comments are seriously way over the top

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 11:52 AM
Ben has a high school qbs arm. He really needs to improve, go back to his roots and find what made him an NFL qb.

Yea I'm not sure where this came from.. Pretty silly man!

Scorp
01-09-2012, 11:55 AM
Just saying he's made much better throws and we know it. Especially in big games. Any playoff game is big. Right?

MattyVfromCT
01-09-2012, 11:58 AM
This can't be a serious thread... How many drops did we have? When is Wallace gonnna actually work for a catch? He' s throwing on a bad ankle and cant get the accuracy quite as perfect as usual, but to say he cant make a throw over 30 yds is ridiculous!!

COSIGNED!

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steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 12:07 PM
This can't be a serious thread... How many drops did we have? When is Wallace gonnna actually work for a catch? He' s throwing on a bad ankle and cant get the accuracy quite as perfect as usual, but to say he cant make a throw over 30 yds is ridiculous!!

This is a serious thread. Its just an opinion if people think that Ben has hit his ceiling. But his deep throws have been bad this year. Maybe he will get better with a new OC but right now I think he isnt gonna improve much more as a passer.

steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 12:17 PM
This is a serious thread. Its just an opinion if people think that Ben has hit his ceiling. But his deep throws have been bad this year. Maybe he will get better with a new OC but right now I think he isnt gonna improve much more as a passer.

He was responding to the "can Ben throw over 30 yards" thread. It was merged with this one.

steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 12:25 PM
He was responding to the "can Ben throw over 30 yards" thread. It was merged with this one.

OOOOps, thanks babe :tt02:

Speeed
01-09-2012, 01:01 PM
i agree - "Holding the ball too long?"

My goodness, Tebow was holding the ball so long last night I think he was planning his retirement package 15 years away. He holds the ball because he can. When Ben holds it, the drama is amplified because there is always pressure. Always. If he had time to give receivers time to run their routes he would be putting up huge numbers.

I don't understand why the faste guy in the league can't hookup for big plays in a big game. And a rookie QB can do it seemingly at will when needed on a quality secondary. Coaching? Scheme? Being rushed by the DL? I think all of that.


NO, but without some help he'll be done soon!

Oline, we all love to point fingers at but Ben holds the damn ball way too long, same old song and dance right?

OC, playcalling was horrid 90% of the year and got 20x's worse once Ben was hurt. Bruce will not adjust. We need a FB and a whole new playbook next season!

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 01:26 PM
Ben with a bad ankle = No scramble drills, they knew it, bring the heat.

Tebow with 2 good ankles = You got to respect his ability to scramble and make plays, it's like comparing apples to oranges..

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 02:17 PM
With all the talent we had on offense and to only be ranked 22nd in points scored is an absolute joke. I will only find positives from this game if BA is shitcanned........

Considering the entire offensive line is pretty worthless, and that Wallace is NOT a #1 receiver, I don't think there is much talent on offense. But I agree with your last sentence.


No. He needs a better o line, running game and play calling. He's an elite QB who does not have an elite offense. He has not had a real line since 2005. Ben is what....29 ? Look at Brady, Manning etc who still can play at a high level and are 6 or 7 years older.

:plus1: Over 90 QB rating for his career. QB rating doesn't lie. He is Elite! And not over-rated, one year wonder Eli Manning elite. He has been elite since his rookie season. Give him a proper Offensive line and a real offensive coordinator and he would be in the top three. Even in with the $hit line and play-calling, he is still top five. That shows how good he is.

JoeSteelerFan
01-09-2012, 02:33 PM
In my mind, the ultimate sign of Airans ineptitude is not in his horrid situational play calling and **** poor game planning, it's the fact that he has not developed Ben Roethlisberger since he's been with the team.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Ben is the EXACT same QB he was 7 years ago from a mechanics standpoint and THAT .... my friends, is FAILURE.

If the plan was to build an offense that relies on Ben to "extend the play" ... that ain't gonna work as Ben gets older/slower as he is getting with each passing year.

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Ben sucks. If any other quarterback in the league had the weapons that he does their offense would be unstoppable.

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LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 03:21 PM
Ben sucks. If any other quarterback in the league had the weapons that he does their offense would be unstoppable.

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As much as you'll get flamed, I have to agree with you, he was a freaking DUD this year IMO!! Even B4 the ankle, thumb, sack, penis, ear, pube, toenail, stretch mark injuries!!

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 04:10 PM
Ben sucks. If any other quarterback in the league had the weapons that he does their offense would be unstoppable.

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That is two of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Ben sucks and him having "weapons." Wallace, Ward, Sanders, and Cotchery. Yeah, that's a frightening receiver corps.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 04:13 PM
That is two of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Ben sucks and him having "weapons." Wallace, Ward, Sanders, and Cotchery. Yeah, that's a frightening receiver corps.

Brown??

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 04:20 PM
That is two of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Ben sucks and him having "weapons." Wallace, Ward, Sanders, and Cotchery. Yeah, that's a frightening receiver corps.


And Brown? How many teams have receivers like that? Big Ben does suck and he has been hiding between a great defense all these years. Now we all see his true colors. Honestly everyone needs to stop defending him. How is that idiotic you bum ***?

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LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 04:25 PM
And Brown? How many teams have receivers like that? Big Ben does suck and he has been hiding between a great defense all these years. Now we all see his true colors. Honestly everyone needs to stop defending him. How is that idiotic you bum ***?

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Name calling isn't cool, but you make a valid point about Ben..

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 04:27 PM
Name calling isn't cool, but you make a valid point about Ben..

He shouldn't call my comments or thoughts "idiotic".


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steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 04:29 PM
That is two of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Ben sucks and him having "weapons." Wallace, Ward, Sanders, and Cotchery. Yeah, that's a frightening receiver corps.

While I don't agree with the "Ben sucks" comment, this is just as stupid. The receiving corps that the Steelers had was one of the most explosive in the league. Our offense should have been ranked somewhere in the top 5 and instead were ranked #12 and were abysmal in putting points on the board.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 05:10 PM
While I don't agree with the "Ben sucks" comment, this is just as stupid. The receiving corps that the Steelers had was one of the most explosive in the league. Our offense should have been ranked somewhere in the top 5 and instead were ranked #12 and were abysmal in putting points on the board.

Well when there is no evidence of them being amongst the best in the league, because they clearly weren't, then what is the measuring stick for saying how good they are? Because people view them as being "explosive"? I'm sure some Browns fans think see their receivers as being "explosive" also.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 05:26 PM
He shouldn't call my comments or thoughts "idiotic".


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Bum *** is a term only used for BA as well as idiotic... lol

Stay cool man it's hot out here indeed but we'll all get over it and move on...

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 05:31 PM
And Brown? How many teams have receivers like that? Big Ben does suck and he has been hiding between a great defense all these years. Now we all see his true colors. Honestly everyone needs to stop defending him. How is that idiotic you bum ***?

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Why is Brown great? Where is the evidence? Are you a professional scout? He's good because you say so?

92.1 QB rating in 8 seasons, 63.1 completion%, 165 TDs and 100 INTs, and nearly 27,000 yards. "Hiding between a great defense" doesn't give you the above statistics since I haven't cited his wins. Educate yourself, bum ***!

steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 05:34 PM
Why is Brown great? Where is the evidence? Are you a professional scout? He's good because you say so?

That's a joke right? You're joking.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 05:42 PM
That's a joke right? You're joking.

5'10, 186 pounds. In his second season. Barely played last season. He had over 1000 yards this season. So he has a single 1000+ yard season and that means what? Steelersbabe, I remember you arguing about how Wallace was a #1 WR. I think you need to put away your Steelers bias sometimes and not jump to conclusions based on 1 or 2 seasons.

You want to argue that Brown is good because he had 1000+ yards then I'll argue that he had 1000+ yards because he had Roethlisberger throwing to him in a new pass happy NFL where 10 QBs went over 4000 yards.

steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 06:11 PM
5'10, 186 pounds. In his second season. Barely played last season. He had over 1000 yards this season. So he has a single 1000+ yard season and that means what? Steelersbabe, I remember you arguing about how Wallace was a #1 WR. I think you need to put away your Steelers bias sometimes and not jump to conclusions based on 1 or 2 seasons.

You want to argue that Brown is good because he had 1000+ yards then I'll argue that he had 1000+ yards because he had Roethlisberger throwing to him in a new pass happy NFL where 10 QBs went over 4000 yards.

This is just too ridiculous to even respond to.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 06:23 PM
This is just too ridiculous to even respond to.

I feel the same way about you and others wanted to proclaim Wallace and Brown as the next Holt and Bruce after one season.

Destossel
01-09-2012, 07:24 PM
Im going to take a wild guess here and say that some of you were not old enough to be a Steelers fan in the 80s. PB went from Terry Bradshaw, Swann,Harris etc and 4 SB wins to Mark Malone, Bubby Brister and some guys who were shells of their former selves. I started watching in 1980 when I was 8 and had to wait 25 years to see another Super Bowl win.

Point ? In those 25 years the Steelers had some great teams under Cowher and a few overachieving teams from an outdated Chuck Noll. But all those teams had one thing in common : No real QB. Malone, Brister, O'donnell,Stewart, Graham,Maddox etc were not able to get the job done even with great teams around them.

Enter 2005. Big Ben played lights out in the playoffs and took a 6th seed team to the SB. The team was not the greatest but Cowher finally got the piece of the puzzle he needed....a real QB.

You think Big Ben cannot throw ? You think he was given 100 million dollars for no reason? Go back in history just a few years and see just how lucky you are to have Ben. I hope he can play for 10 more years.

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 07:42 PM
Im going to take a wild guess here and say that some of you were not old enough to be a Steelers fan in the 80s. PB went from Terry Bradshaw, Swann,Harris etc and 4 SB wins to Mark Malone, Bubby Brister and some guys who were shells of their former selves. I started watching in 1980 when I was 8 and had to wait 25 years to see another Super Bowl win.



Point ? In those 25 years the Steelers had some great teams under Cowher and a few overachieving teams from an outdated Chuck Noll. But all those teams had one thing in common : No real QB. Malone, Brister, O'donnell,Stewart, Graham,Maddox etc were not able to get the job done even with great teams around them.



Enter 2005. Big Ben played lights out in the playoffs and took a 6th seed team to the SB. The team was not the greatest but Cowher finally got the piece of the puzzle he needed....a real QB.



You think Big Ben cannot throw ? You think he was given 100 million dollars for no reason? Go back in history just a few years and see just how lucky you are to have Ben. I hope he can play for 10 more years.


What's the point in Ben having all these stats if he has only shown up to 1 of the 3 superbowls he has played in? He can throw, but he doesn't take anything seriously. After he throws picks they show him on the sideline laughing about it and joking around. That isn't good. It just seems like he doesn't care about anything until we are losing by a couple touchdowns. Its ridiculous.

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steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 07:44 PM
I feel the same way about you and others wanted to proclaim Wallace and Brown as the next Holt and Bruce after one season.

Ben has been aided by great defenses in the past. His true colors will show in the next few season's while the defense goes through a rebuilding phase. Do I see Ben carrying the team with points week in and week out? Hell no. Im not saying that Ben sucks as a Qb, but he has benefited alot from having them great steeler defenses in the past. Also he does have the weapons on offense. He has a deep threat in Wallace, a possesion receiver in Cotchery/Ward/Brown and a dynamic wr in Brown. He also has 3 decent running backs. Mendy/Redman/Moore(when healthy)/Clay. This season was a gimp in the playoff year. We didnt play any team good at all for a dominant win. We barely squeeked by the colts for that matter. Killed in Bmore, Dull win over Kc. Offense couldnt get going until late in the second baltimore game. I mean there is only so much you can blame on BA. He seems to be the scape goat week in and week out but when is it to the point where some of the blame goes on Ben?

There has only been two playoff runs in bens career where he has thrown more td's than int's being in 2005 and 2008. He has only as 84 rating in the playoffs which isnt what you call elite. Thats doesnt include the 75 qb rating he had in yesterdays loss.

Plus if people on here hate BA so much then why not hate on Ben a little since he was the one who made a push for him to come back this season?

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 07:46 PM
Why is Brown great? Where is the evidence? Are you a professional scout? He's good because you say so?

92.1 QB rating in 8 seasons, 63.1 completion%, 165 TDs and 100 INTs, and nearly 27,000 yards. "Hiding between a great defense" doesn't give you the above statistics since I haven't cited his wins. Educate yourself, bum ***!

I never said Brown was great? He has weapons on that offense and no one can deny it. Some guy mentioned it earlier. He's the same quarterback that he was 7 years ago. He never improves his game. The defense slows down this year and so does Ben. If the D is playing bad then Ben should be able to put the team on his back and he never does. Damn it he's making 100 Mill. Not rely on the D to make all the turnovers and score points. Its unacceptable.


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NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 08:08 PM
I never said Brown was great? He has weapons on that offense and no one can deny it. Some guy mentioned it earlier. He's the same quarterback that he was 7 years ago. He never improves his game. The defense slows down this year and so does Ben. If the D is playing bad then Ben should be able to put the team on his back and he never does. Damn it he's making 100 Mill. Not rely on the D to make all the turnovers and score points. Its unacceptable.


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He has a 92 QB rating, what is he supposed to improve when he's had the same worthless o-line for 5 years?

Did he put the team on his back in the 2008 Superbowl? Did he put the team on his back in all three playoff games, aside from the Superbowl, in 2005? Did he not tie the game last night? I don't know what you're watching.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 06:08 PM ---


Also he does have the weapons on offense. He has a deep threat in Wallace, a possesion receiver in Cotchery/Ward/Brown and a dynamic wr in Brown. He also has 3 decent running backs. Mendy/Redman/Moore(when healthy)/Clay.

Even if these receivers are that great, for argument's sake, why do you forget the fact that he has no offensive line and hasn't had one since 2006. How is he supposed to throw when he has 3 seconds every time? Where do you live? I live in NY. I watch a lot of Giants games and other random games when the Steelers aren't on. Have you ever seen the line of other teams? Especially the lines of teams that have pass oriented offenses? Do you know who much time the Mannings have? Or Brady? Did you see how much time Tebow had? How many seconds passed on the 3rd and 12 that he completed for his first big play?


I mean there is only so much you can blame on BA. He seems to be the scape goat week in and week out but when is it to the point where some of the blame goes on Ben?

The quarterback has a 92 QB rating and a 62 completion% in 8 seasons, what does Arians have? Why would I blame a QB with those credentials?


There has only been two playoff runs in bens career where he has thrown more td's than int's being in 2005 and 2008. He has only as 84 rating in the playoffs which isnt what you call elite. That doesn't include the 75 qb rating he had in yesterdays loss.

Only an 84 rating in the playoffs? Tom Brady has an 85 rating in the postseason and elder Manning has an 88. What's your point?

Aside from his first Superbowl win, where he was only in his second year, he has been great in the playoffs. Tomlin got out-coached by Jacksonville in 2007; he got out-coached against Green Bay in 2010; and he got out-coached by Denver last night. They fell behind in all three games, and Tomlin and his pet fat boy are unequipped to manage comebacks nor do they have the offensive scheme for it.

And still, Roethlisberger does what he can to get the game close. Superbowl last year, Mendenhall doesn't fumble, and it's a completely different game. Last night, Cotchery makes that third down catch that was right to him, and maybe we're up 10-0 instead of 6-0, and that also changes the game.

And let's not forget that we won in 2008 because Roethlisberger made one of the greatest drives ever, followed by one of the greatest throws ever.

I don't know what you're watching for you to think that Roethlisberger is the problem.


Plus if people on here hate BA so much then why not hate on Ben a little since he was the one who made a push for him to come back this season?

Is Roethlisberger a diva? Has he ever threatened to leave if Arians isn't brought back? If Tomlin had any coaching ability, he would make a personnel change and not rely on a player to tell him who to keep and who to fire.

elephantman
01-09-2012, 08:27 PM
yes 25 yrs of NO Super bowls and Great defenses in the 90's....and 2004 Ben comes and 2 SB's in his 1st 5 yrs.....nuff said.....oh and 4 AFC championship games and 3 AFC championchips.....

come on guys we lost...had we got the ball 1st Ben would have taken it to the house and we all know that

Real Deal Steel
01-09-2012, 08:41 PM
Getting a healthy O-line is what Ben needs. Also.......................throwing more timing passes so the ball is out of his hands is also needed. But to do that, we would need a
real Offensive Coordinator to understand that.

DBR96A
01-09-2012, 08:45 PM
This is a serious thread. Its just an opinion if people think that Ben has hit his ceiling. But his deep throws have been bad this year. Maybe he will get better with a new OC but right now I think he isnt gonna improve much more as a passer.

Bruce Arians doesn't challenge Ben to be any better, the way Sean Payton challenged Drew Brees to be better.

Real Deal Steel
01-09-2012, 08:46 PM
Bruce Arians doesn't challenge Ben to be any better, the way Sean Payton challenged Drew Brees to be better.



Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 08:50 PM
Bruce Arians doesn't challenge Ben to be any better, the way Sean Payton challenged Drew Brees to be better.

While I don't care whether or not an offensive coordinator challenges him unlike Arians, I do care whether or not that offensive coordinator is offensively competent unlike Arians.

LatrobePA
01-09-2012, 09:03 PM
Bruce Arians doesn't challenge Ben to be any better, the way Sean Payton challenged Drew Brees to be better.

You nailed it!

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 09:03 PM
He has a 92 QB rating, what is he supposed to improve when he's had the same worthless o-line for 5 years?

Did he put the team on his back in the 2008 Superbowl? Did he put the team on his back in all three playoff games, aside from the Superbowl, in 2005? Did he not tie the game last night? I don't know what you're watching.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 06:08 PM ---



Even if these receivers are that great, for argument's sake, why do you forget the fact that he has no offensive line and hasn't had one since 2006. How is he supposed to throw when he has 3 seconds every time? Where do you live? I live in NY. I watch a lot of Giants games and other random games when the Steelers aren't on. Have you ever seen the line of other teams? Especially the lines of teams that have pass oriented offenses? Do you know who much time the Mannings have? Or Brady? Did you see how much time Tebow had? How many seconds passed on the 3rd and 12 that he completed for his first big play?



The quarterback has a 92 QB rating and a 62 completion% in 8 seasons, what does Arians have? Why would I blame a QB with those credentials?



Only an 84 rating in the playoffs? Tom Brady has an 85 rating in the postseason and elder Manning has an 88. What's your point?

Aside from his first Superbowl win, where he was only in his second year, he has been great in the playoffs. Tomlin got out-coached by Jacksonville in 2007; he got out-coached against Green Bay in 2010; and he got out-coached by Denver last night. They fell behind in all three games, and Tomlin and his pet fat boy are unequipped to manage comebacks nor do they have the offensive scheme for it.

And still, Roethlisberger does what he can to get the game close. Superbowl last year, Mendenhall doesn't fumble, and it's a completely different game. Last night, Cotchery makes that third down catch that was right to him, and maybe we're up 10-0 instead of 6-0, and that also changes the game.

And let's not forget that we won in 2008 because Roethlisberger made one of the greatest drives ever, followed by one of the greatest throws ever.

I don't know what you're watching for you to think that Roethlisberger is the problem.



Is Roethlisberger a diva? Has he ever threatened to leave if Arians isn't brought back? If Tomlin had any coaching ability, he would make a personnel change and not rely on a player to tell him who to keep and who to fire.


He didn't tie that game yesterday. The offense did. If I remember correctly he actually almost killed that drive by throwing a stupid pass to Wallace that was almost intercepted by Bailey. And that pass to Cotchery to tie the game wasn't the greatest pass either. And if ben hasn't thrown that dumass pick 6 in the superbowl it would have been a different game too. Mendenhall wasn't the only one that turned the ball over in the Superbowl.

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steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 09:06 PM
He didn't tie that game yesterday. The offense did. If I remember correctly he actually almost killed that drive by throwing a stupid pass to Wallace that was almost intercepted by Bailey. And that pass to Cotchery to tie the game wasn't the greatest pass either. And if ben hasn't thrown that dumass pick 6 in the superbowl it would have been a different game too. Mendenhall wasn't the only one that turned the ball over in the Superbowl.

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Let's not forget the horrible int that he threw yesterday in Steeler territory.

I'm not agreeing with you in that I don't think Ben "sucks" as you so eloquently put. But I don't think that he can do no wrong either.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 09:19 PM
He didn't tie that game yesterday. The offense did. If I remember correctly he actually almost killed that drive by throwing a stupid pass to Wallace that was almost intercepted by Bailey. And that pass to Cotchery to tie the game wasn't the greatest pass either. And if ben hasn't thrown that dumass pick 6 in the superbowl it would have been a different game too. Mendenhall wasn't the only one that turned the ball over in the Superbowl.

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He threw a pick-six, but made up for it. Mendenhall killed the game with the fumble. Mistake free football is rare by a quarterback, especially when you play great teams in the postseason, which is evident by the fact that Roethlisberger has almost the same QB rating as Brady in the postseason.

The throw to cotchery was perfect. You're being ridiculous just to argue your personal dislike for Roethlisberger by saying that pass wasn't "the greatest."

If the offense tied it yesterday, and we're not going to single out individual players when they do good, then collectively blame the offense when they do bad. You conveniently credit the offense as a unit when they play well and then blame Roethlisberger when they play bad.

Stop crapping on a pro-bowl QB with a 92 QB rating in 8 seasons, an 84 QB rating in 14 postseason games, with 10 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls. It's asinine to think you would get anything better than Roethlisberger without somehow getting Rodgers, Brees or Brady. And personally, I think Brady would be in his grave if he played behind this line.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 07:19 PM ---


Let's not forget the horrible int that he threw yesterday in Steeler territory.

I'm not agreeing with you in that I don't think Ben "sucks" as you so eloquently put. But I don't think that he can do no wrong either.

He couldn't move due to injury and he knew he was stuck behind the same ole' miserable line that caused his injury in the first place. He made a bad pass. Of course he can do wrong. Since the QB handles the ball more than any other player. It is a given that a mistake will be made in my opinion. Asking for mistake-free is unrealistic. You just expect the good to outweigh the mistakes.

Yesterday, he threw one mistake. Considering he tied the game in the end and almost drove the team to a field goal, I think his good far outweighed his mistakes.

xBlitzBurghx
01-09-2012, 09:22 PM
He threw a pick-six, but made up for it. Mendenhall killed the game with the fumble. Mistake free football is rare by a quarterback, especially when you play great teams in the postseason, which is evident by the fact that Roethlisberger has almost the same QB rating as Brady in the postseason.



The throw to cotchery was perfect. You're being ridiculous just to argue your personal dislike for Roethlisberger by saying that pass wasn't "the greatest."



If the offense tied it yesterday, and we're not going to single out individual players when they do good, then collectively blame the offense when they do bad. You conveniently credit the offense as a unit when they play well and then blame Roethlisberger when they play bad.



Stop crapping on a pro-bowl QB with a 92 QB rating in 8 seasons, an 84 QB rating in 14 postseason games, with 10 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls. It's asinine to think you would get anything better than Roethlisberger without somehow getting Rodgers, Brees or Brady. And personally, I think Brady would be in his grave if he played behind this line.


Ill just leave you and your man crush for ben alone. Keep thinking he's the best thing to ever happen to this team. Hopefully I am wrong and ben actually shows up for next season and actually shows up to EVERY game. Not just when we play good teams.

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steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 09:26 PM
He has a 92 QB rating, what is he supposed to improve when he's had the same worthless o-line for 5 years?

Did he put the team on his back in the 2008 Superbowl? Did he put the team on his back in all three playoff games, aside from the Superbowl, in 2005? Did he not tie the game last night? I don't know what you're watching.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 06:08 PM ---



Even if these receivers are that great, for argument's sake, why do you forget the fact that he has no offensive line and hasn't had one since 2006. How is he supposed to throw when he has 3 seconds every time? Where do you live? I live in NY. I watch a lot of Giants games and other random games when the Steelers aren't on. Have you ever seen the line of other teams? Especially the lines of teams that have pass oriented offenses? Do you know who much time the Mannings have? Or Brady? Did you see how much time Tebow had? How many seconds passed on the 3rd and 12 that he completed for his first big play?



The quarterback has a 92 QB rating and a 62 completion% in 8 seasons, what does Arians have? Why would I blame a QB with those credentials?



Only an 84 rating in the playoffs? Tom Brady has an 85 rating in the postseason and elder Manning has an 88. What's your point?

Aside from his first Superbowl win, where he was only in his second year, he has been great in the playoffs. Tomlin got out-coached by Jacksonville in 2007; he got out-coached against Green Bay in 2010; and he got out-coached by Denver last night. They fell behind in all three games, and Tomlin and his pet fat boy are unequipped to manage comebacks nor do they have the offensive scheme for it.

And still, Roethlisberger does what he can to get the game close. Superbowl last year, Mendenhall doesn't fumble, and it's a completely different game. Last night, Cotchery makes that third down catch that was right to him, and maybe we're up 10-0 instead of 6-0, and that also changes the game.

And let's not forget that we won in 2008 because Roethlisberger made one of the greatest drives ever, followed by one of the greatest throws ever.

I don't know what you're watching for you to think that Roethlisberger is the problem.



Is Roethlisberger a diva? Has he ever threatened to leave if Arians isn't brought back? If Tomlin had any coaching ability, he would make a personnel change and not rely on a player to tell him who to keep and who to fire.

Can I just ask what Ben does do wrong in your opinion? Also you can say what you want about Tomlin being outcoached a number of times. But guees what, Tebow outplayed the hell out of Ben lastnight. Ill be ready for the "well Ben was banged up" excuse now. I think you do have a man crush though on Ben. The dude is perfection to you isnt he :). Yes, also Ben is a Diva. Dont tell me he didnt make that ankle to be alot worse than what it was, but yes Ben does have some sort of Diva in him. You also forgot to credit Holmes for making that drive special. Remember Holmes made a hell of a catch at the end to(Im sure you'll bring back his drop he had) but what about the YAC for holmes on that last drive to. You have to give him credit also. Ben was not the only one who made that drive. Plus if your gonna bring up probowls this is Bens only second one he has made so please dont make it sound like he is a regular on the prob bowl team.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 09:43 PM
Can I just ask what Ben does do wrong in your opinion?

He does a lot wrong. There's no such thing as a perfect player. Manning and Brady don't throw interceptions or fumble? Eli Manning doesn't throw interceptions regularly just to avoid the sack as opposed to Roethlisberger holding the ball too long and taking the sack?

Every player f#$ks up. Their value should be determined by whether nor not their good outweighs their f#$k ups. A great player is one who's good FAR outweighs his f#$k ups. Roethlisberger is a great player. QB rating doesn't lie. Show me a QB with a low rating that is actually good or a QB with a high rating that is actually bad. He has a 92 rating for his career, and that rating is spread out consistently over 8 seasons. You're not going to get better than him, so complaining about him is like Brady complaining that Gisele snores at night.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 07:43 PM ---


Can I just ask what Ben does do wrong in your opinion? Also you can say what you want about Tomlin being outcoached a number of times. But guees what, Tebow outplayed the hell out of Ben lastnight. Ill be ready for the "well Ben was banged up" excuse now. I think you do have a man crush though on Ben. The dude is perfection to you isnt he :). Yes, also Ben is a Diva. Dont tell me he didnt make that ankle to be alot worse than what it was, but yes Ben does have some sort of Diva in him. You also forgot to credit Holmes for making that drive special. Remember Holmes made a hell of a catch at the end to(Im sure you'll bring back his drop he had) but what about the YAC for holmes on that last drive to. You have to give him credit also. Ben was not the only one who made that drive. Plus if your gonna bring up probowls this is Bens only second one he has made so please dont make it sound like he is a regular on the prob bowl team.

It's not about having a man-crush, it's about having the common sense to know that there are only 3 or 4 QBs in the league better than the one we have so complaining about our QB is idiotic. If Batch or Dixon had Roethlisberger's stats, I wouldn't complain about them either.

You questioning his injury, when it was clear that he was injured and was playing completely differently shows your complete lack of reality. Next thing you're going to do is try and claim that there is a quarterback other than Brees, Rodgers, elder Manning, and Brady that is better than Roethlisberger. You're probably one of these ESPN-loving clowns who thought "Matty Ice" was better than Roethlisberger.

steelersbabex25
01-09-2012, 09:43 PM
He does a lot wrong. There's no such thing as a perfect player. Manning and Brady don't throw interceptions or fumble? Eli Manning doesn't throw interceptions regularly just to avoid the sack as opposed to Roethlisberger holding the ball too long and taking the sack?

Ben had 21 touchdowns and 14 ints this year, and he fumbled 7 times. Tom Brady had 39 touchdowns and 12 ints. Let's not put them in the same class. Roethlisberger makes a lot more mistakes than Brady or Manning do.

steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 09:48 PM
He does a lot wrong. There's no such thing as a perfect player. Manning and Brady don't throw interceptions or fumble? Eli Manning doesn't throw interceptions regularly just to avoid the sack as opposed to Roethlisberger holding the ball too long and taking the sack?

Every player f#$ks up. Their value should be determined by whether nor not their good outweighs their f#$k ups. A great player is one who's good FAR outweighs his f#$k ups. Roethlisberger is a great player. QB rating doesn't lie. Show me a QB with a low rating that is actually good or a QB with a high rating that is actually bad. He has a 92 rating for his career, and that rating is spread out consistently over 8 seasons. You're not going to get better than him, so complaining about him is like Brady complaining that Gisele snores at night.

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 07:43 PM ---



It's not about having a man-crush, it's about having the common sense to know that there are only 3 or 4 QBs in the league better than the one we have so complaining about our QB is idiotic. If Batch or Dixon had Roethlisberger's stats, I wouldn't complain about them either.

I really hope your not saying Ben had a great year this year :lol:

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 09:57 PM
Ben had 21 touchdowns and 14 ints this year, and he fumbled 7 times. Tom Brady had 39 touchdowns and 12 ints. Let's not put them in the same class. Roethlisberger makes a lot more mistakes than Brady or Manning do.

I don't care if he's in "their class." Is he or is he not the 5th best quarterback in the league?


I really hope your not saying Ben had a great year this year :lol:

Listen, your arguments are weak and you clearly lack football knowledge. You tried to use the fact that Roethlisberger has an 84 QB rating in the postseason as a knock, obviously thinking that that was a low rating, not realizing that the best in the league rarely have much higher for their postseason careers.

steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 10:10 PM
I don't care if he's in "their class." Is he or is he not the 5th best quarterback in the league?



Listen, your arguments are weak and you clearly lack football knowledge. You tried to use the fact that Roethlisberger has an 84 QB rating in the postseason as a knock, obviously thinking that that was a low rating, not realizing that the best in the league rarely have much higher for their postseason careers.

Your fascination with Ben is kinda weird and a little to passionate. How many pro bowls has Ben been to?? Do you really think Ben is a HOF as of right now? He WILL need 1 more sb to be in the hall there is no doubt. You still havent credited Holmes at all for the Ben superbowl drive which kinda lacks your football knowledge lmfao. Its also true that Ben can not carry this team throwing over 30+ times a game. He needs a run game. You can say what you want about the O-line and boohoo all you want. But this year. There were 9 Qb's who had a better passer rating than Ben, since you like to use rating as a stat including Romo, Stafford, Ryan and Schaub. 10 qb's had more Td's and was sacked 40 times this year. Just keep drinking the Ben KoolAid man. Hes not as great as you think he is without that defense or run game.

NYCsteelersfan
01-09-2012, 11:15 PM
Your fascination with Ben is kinda weird and a little to passionate. How many pro bowls has Ben been to?? Do you really think Ben is a HOF as of right now? He WILL need 1 more sb to be in the hall there is no doubt. You still havent credited Holmes at all for the Ben superbowl drive which kinda lacks your football knowledge lmfao. Its also true that Ben can not carry this team throwing over 30+ times a game. He needs a run game. You can say what you want about the O-line and boohoo all you want. But this year. There were 9 Qb's who had a better passer rating than Ben, since you like to use rating as a stat including Romo, Stafford, Ryan and Schaub. 10 qb's had more Td's and was sacked 40 times this year. Just keep drinking the Ben KoolAid man. Hes not as great as you think he is without that defense or run game.

Omar Epps? Is that you? lol You're crazy man, joining a forum and trying to draw heat away from yourself. I loved you in Juice. You didn't have the juice last night though, huh? Higher Learning is on. I'll talk to you later.

steelchamp204
01-09-2012, 11:58 PM
Omar Epps? Is that you? lol You're crazy man, joining a forum and trying to draw heat away from yourself. I loved you in Juice. You didn't have the juice last night though, huh? Higher Learning is on. I'll talk to you later.

Pretty bad when you cant answer some straight questions :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana::banana:

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 09:58 PM ---


Omar Epps? Is that you? lol You're crazy man, joining a forum and trying to draw heat away from yourself. I loved you in Juice. You didn't have the juice last night though, huh? Higher Learning is on. I'll talk to you later.

This is where you should go cheer, you should be used to saying this :imho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFMYI8ksYZo

NYCsteelersfan
01-10-2012, 12:32 AM
Pretty bad when you cant answer some straight questions :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana::banana:

--- Added 1/9/2012 at 09:58 PM ---



This is where you should go cheer, you should be used to saying this :imho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFMYI8ksYZo

Have some balls, Omar. Man up, show how stupid you are, and attempt to name 5 quarterbacks in the league that are better than Roethlisberger. Not 5 quarterbacks that are better than Roethlisberger for one game of one season, but 5 quarterbacks that you would rather have if you owned a football team. Don't dodge the question and say, "well since I would have to plan for the future blah blah blah."

Name 5 quarterbacks you would take over Roethlisberger while I watch Higher Learning.

steelchamp204
01-10-2012, 01:15 AM
Have some balls, Omar. Man up, show how stupid you are, and attempt to name 5 quarterbacks in the league that are better than Roethlisberger. Not 5 quarterbacks that are better than Roethlisberger for one game of one season, but 5 quarterbacks that you would rather have if you owned a football team. Don't dodge the question and say, "well since I would have to plan for the future blah blah blah."

Name 5 quarterbacks you would take over Roethlisberger while I watch Higher Learning.

Thats easy Bud.

1. Rodgers
2. P Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. E. Manning/Schaub/Romo/Ben/Stafford

All of them in the #5 could take that spot. Romo/Stafford could easily be ahead of Ben also. As much as I hate the cowboys Romo's numbers are better than Bens td/int ratio and Qb rating that you highly regard. See the thing is with these QB's is they can all put up points when needed. There defenses are **** but they can carry there team if needed. Maybe you will say Stafford couldnt put up the number against the Saints in the postseason but who the hell can besides maybe the packers. You could also make a case for Stafford since he finally played a full healthy season. 41 td's to 16 ints is a good start for his first full season and helped the Lions get to the playoffs for the first time in how long. Its all a push for the 5 spot though. Like I already stated, these next couple of seasons will show how good and how much Ben can carry this team. Not saying the young guys wont step it up on defense replacing the Vets but there's gonna be learning curve for them and I dont see them stopping anyone like we did a few years ago. It also depends on if we bring a new OC in and what he is capable of doing with Ben. If we bring back BA then I dont see any progression at all coming out of Ben. It will be the same ol same ol.:popcorn:

Scorp
01-10-2012, 11:33 AM
Thats easy Bud.

1. Rodgers
2. P Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. E. Manning/Schaub/Romo/Ben/Stafford

All of them in the #5 could take that spot. Romo/Stafford could easily be ahead of Ben also. As much as I hate the cowboys Romo's numbers are better than Bens td/int ratio and Qb rating that you highly regard. See the thing is with these QB's is they can all put up points when needed. There defenses are **** but they can carry there team if needed. Maybe you will say Stafford couldnt put up the number against the Saints in the postseason but who the hell can besides maybe the packers. You could also make a case for Stafford since he finally played a full healthy season. 41 td's to 16 ints is a good start for his first full season and helped the Lions get to the playoffs for the first time in how long. Its all a push for the 5 spot though. Like I already stated, these next couple of seasons will show how good and how much Ben can carry this team. Not saying the young guys wont step it up on defense replacing the Vets but there's gonna be learning curve for them and I dont see them stopping anyone like we did a few years ago. It also depends on if we bring a new OC in and what he is capable of doing with Ben. If we bring back BA then I dont see any progression at all coming out of Ben. It will be the same ol same ol.:popcorn:


Just got to say i would throw Rodgers and Brady in the trash with the sickness and quickness. Those 2 think or thought they were invincible with all their passing yards and how close they came to being undefeated and so on and so forth. That crap doesn't fly with me. You never see Brees act like that all hot headed and i'm the baddest qb in the nfl. I would put Brees at #1 and to replace the 2 i just threw out would be Stafford and Schaub. That's just me though. :yellowthumb:

steelspikes
01-10-2012, 11:55 AM
Steelers averaged more points per game when Ben was a rookie ( and K. Wisenhunt was OC), than they did this year. That being said...with a new OC and a re-worked scheme, Ben's got many good years ahead. But his game will have to change. He's taken a lot of hits in his first 8 yrs. I think Mike Martz is available since he resigned from Bears. Would love to see if he could propel the Steeler O out of the realm of mediocrity.

Rampage
01-10-2012, 12:08 PM
I do think that the guy needs an OC and QB coach who are his coaches and not his friends. Way too many times he forces passes into double and triple coverage when another receiver is essentially uncovered and it doesn't seem like anyone has tried to coach that out of him. While you can't argue with his success rate, he could be a force if he would embrace some more underneath routes, learn to check it down to a RB or hell, even throw the ball away every now and again.

LatrobePA
01-10-2012, 12:36 PM
I do think that the guy needs an OC and QB coach who are his coaches and not his friends. Way too many times he forces passes into double and triple coverage when another receiver is essentially uncovered and it doesn't seem like anyone has tried to coach that out of him. While you can't argue with his success rate, he could be a force if he would embrace some more underneath routes, learn to check it down to a RB or hell, even throw the ball away every now and again.

Agreed, just a few weeks ago we saw Tom the great getting his *** ripped/ ripping an *** by his OC, even the great players need coached up!

BA + BB = BFF = Not good!

NYCsteelersfan
01-10-2012, 02:29 PM
Thats easy Bud.
5. E. Manning/Schaub/Romo/Ben/Stafford


You're an absolute fool for putting Eli Manning who has a career 80 QB rating while having Burress for most of his career ahead of Roethlisberger. You're an absolute fool for putting Schaub who has the same rating as Roethlisberger, but has had Andre Johnson for most of his career. And you're an absolute fool for even naming Stafford who has had only one full season.

Like I said, you're one of these fantasy football playing, ESPN-watching clowns who thought Matt Ryan was the second coming of Montana and better than Roethlisberger also after two seasons.

steelchamp204
01-10-2012, 02:40 PM
You're an absolute fool for putting Eli Manning who has a career 80 QB rating while having Burress for most of his career ahead of Roethlisberger. You're an absolute fool for putting Schaub who has the same rating as Roethlisberger, but has had Andre Johnson for most of his career. And you're an absolute fool for even naming Stafford who has had only one full season.

Like I said, you're one of these fantasy football playing, ESPN-watching clowns who thought Matt Ryan was the second coming of Montana and better than Roethlisberger also after two seasons.

I dont play fanstasy football and without you arguing with the Romo idea. I guees I was right on that one. Your the one who judges on rating so I put up that list. Thats not my fault. But im done with you. You have a weird *** love for Ben and it shows. Im not the only one who thinks that. In your eyes Ben is perfect. But to put him up there with Bree's Manning Brady and Rodgers right now is rediculous and shows how much of a homer you are. Plus you only having around 400 posts since 2008 I cant relaly take you serious. You probably just show up for Ben threads. Good day sir.

--- Added 1/10/2012 at 12:40 PM ---


Just got to say i would throw Rodgers and Brady in the trash with the sickness and quickness. Those 2 think or thought they were invincible with all their passing yards and how close they came to being undefeated and so on and so forth. That crap doesn't fly with me. You never see Brees act like that all hot headed and i'm the baddest qb in the nfl. I would put Brees at #1 and to replace the 2 i just threw out would be Stafford and Schaub. That's just me though. :yellowthumb:

Yea I think Brees is better I didnt really put the top 4 in a specific order. I hope Brees gets the MVP this year since he has had the best season since Marino did it back in the day. Knowing the NFL and its voter the MVP will probably go to Rodgers. I wouldnt be shocked though but Brees deserves it.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-10-2012, 06:29 PM
Wow...Nobody is saying Ben can't do any wrong.....As for Drew Brees he didn't start putting up monster numbers until he was matched with Sean Payton who is a great offensive mind.....They're a perfect match for each other...Not mention Brees plays in a dome for his home games to go along with a much better offensive line...Brees wouldn't last a season playing behind the Steelers offensive line.....

Of course Tom Brady is great and nobody is denying that but we have seen Brady look very mortal when teams put pressure on him.....The Ravens play-off game two years ago and the Jets play-off game last year...Hell even this year when the Pats lost to the Steelers Brady was not his usual self since the Steelers pressured him.......The Pats also have a much better offensive line and two freak TE's that can a QB's job much easier...I know you fans think Heath Miller is in that class but he isn't....Miller is good but not special like Gronk or Hernandez......

Aaron Rodgers has the best WR core in the NFL enough said......The Steelers have a damn good one but they're not even close to what the Packers have....If the Steelers had a big physical fast WR like Jordy Nelson it would compare to the Packers core.....They Steelers need that big physical WR that can dictate coverage.....No doubt Rodgers would still be a damn good QB without those WR's but having those WR's is huge plus.....

Eli had a very good year but he has had years where he has looked like **** to......

Stafford, Romo, Schaub better then Big Ben is just laughable.........Until those QB's really do anything in the post-season then talk to me...Plus Stafford while having a great year really has proven he can only stay healthy for one season and has Megatron...Give Ben, Megatron...I bet his stats would look much better...lol Its nice for a QB to just throw it up for grabs and let his WR go get it...Ben only had this rookie year with Plax......

Yea lets go back to the days when we had a great defense and power running game but the QB always killed us in the play-offs....Bring back Brister, O'Donnell, Kordell, Maddox......lol

The Steelers must invest in a offensive line seriously....Its evident this team can't continue to ask Ben to carry the offense while taking the beating he has over the years......Ben has flaws like any player but he has also won many games for this franchise and its crazy that some fans still disrespect him.....If you don't like him as a person then fine but you can't argue he has been a damn good QB for the Steelers and the Steelers wouldn't have won their last two Super Bowls without him......

Ben was great in the three play-off game leading up to Super Bowl XL...Yea he had a bad Super Bowl but he was only in his 2nd year.....

Ben was magical when he needed in Super Bowl XLIII after the D blew a double digit lead....lets not forget that....

Ben made mistakes against the Packers but also brought the team back and it was team effort in that loss.......The defense didn't make one big stop in the game also and Mendenhall's fumble was just one to many mistakes to over come.....

DBR96A
01-10-2012, 08:01 PM
I really hope your not saying Ben had a great year this year :lol:

He had a great October, the month they actually bothered to change the game plan on offense. Just saying.

What's awesome is, Roethlisberger is a top-five QB in the NFL without even reaching his full potential. Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have all maxed out; they're not getting any better than they are now. Now it's time to find an offensive coordinator and a QB coach who know how to get the most out of Roethlisberger. (This includes designing a better system, by the way.) Do that, and he'll become a perennial MVP candidate just like those other three QBs.

connecticutsteel
01-10-2012, 08:15 PM
Ben single handedly saved the wild card game from being a blow out . He was nothing short of heroic in the second half of the game this weekend . i think we should draft a QB i n april but only because Batch is too nold and Dixon will more than likely be gone

elephantman
01-10-2012, 09:11 PM
a Lot of teams (about 23) wish they had our problems at QB....though watching Brees the other night made me realize how far the drop off is on the top 4 list....it's them and everyone else

steelersbabex25
01-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Ben single handedly saved the wild card game from being a blow out . He was nothing short of heroic in the second half of the game this weekend . i think we should draft a QB i n april but only because Batch is too nold and Dixon will more than likely be gone

I would hardly say it was single handed. He had a ton of help from the defense and other players on offense.

DBR96A
01-10-2012, 10:00 PM
I would hardly say it was single handed. He had a ton of help from the defense and other players on offense.

No QB ever does it single-handedly, not even the walking divine in New England, New Orleans and Green Bay. Just saying.

LatrobePA
01-10-2012, 10:01 PM
Rex Grossman could!

steelersbabex25
01-10-2012, 10:06 PM
No QB ever does it single-handedly, not even the walking divine in New England, New Orleans and Green Bay. Just saying.

I'm not the one who said it.

DBR96A
01-10-2012, 10:08 PM
a Lot of teams (about 23) wish they had our problems at QB....though watching Brees the other night made me realize how far the drop off is on the top 4 list....it's them and everyone else

It's all about coaching. Nobody else remembers how Drew Brees was "good but not great" as a student of Cam Cameron in San Diego? Hell, the Chargers intended Philip Rivers to be Brees' eventual replacement for a reason: they didn't believe that Brees had what it takes to be a great QB. Of course, Sean Payton made fools of them all by bringing out the best in Brees, and making him a star.

Cam Cameron : Drew Brees :: Bruce Arians : Ben Roethlisberger

If Roethlisberger was the problem, and if he was even half as "dumb" as most non-Steeler fans (and even a few of us now, sadly) think he is, then we'd never see anything from him like we saw when the Steelers played the Titans and Patriots earlier this season, and he properly executed a precision offense. The problem is poor coaching, plain and simple.

Hopefully we can soon find somebody who's even half as good at developing QBs as Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Charlie Weis, and even Norv Turner are, lest Roethlisberger's maximum potential never be reached.

NYCsteelersfan
01-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Stafford, Romo, Schaub better then Big Ben is just laughable............

Absolutely laughable, and utterly idiotic. Only an idiot who plays fantasy football and gets all his sports knowledge from ESPN would think something so moronic.

LatrobePA
01-10-2012, 10:54 PM
Ben finished with a passer rating over 90, not too bad. The ankle screwed him, I suspect he'll have a good season coming up..

BlitzburghRockCity
01-10-2012, 10:55 PM
I would say even if this is the best Ben will ever be, I'm completely fine with it. Look at the heroics he pulls off each and every week. He excels behind a MASH unit for an offensive line. He gets out of trouble and makes plays on the run that most QB's couldn't dream of. His ability to shake off a defensive end or linebacker and get that extra second to throw makes him invaluable.

He's in a system where he can basically have complete autonomy over the gameplan. He's happy as a lark, no question.

I'm sure he can and will continue to get better, should Tomlin bring in another OC. One that will possibly bring a different offensive style with more consistent quick releases. If he could have that imagine the efficiency and the lack of sacks he'd be subjected too.

Scorp
01-11-2012, 12:46 PM
Does a qb make himself great? Is it the o-line? Is it the his receivers or tight end? Is it all of them? Ben has taken his lumps and bruises and when the season starts again he'll be a fresh body ready to go and put on his crazy displays and take on all comers. We'll always see the best and the not so very best of him when he takes the field. Every season is different and like all of you, i can't wait to see what he dishes out.

steelcityrockers
01-15-2012, 06:07 PM
Oh my goodness I am so glad I came back to see this. Holy hell this thread was absolutely hilarious. I'm...I am rendered speechless by this. I can't even put into words the inaccuracies that people presented here. Bravo gang, bravo!

KoffeeHobson
01-15-2012, 06:25 PM
Ben is doing it with a patchwork offensive line. Could you imagine if Ben had Houston's offensive line? I just wish he would throw the incompletion and live another day.

LatrobePA
01-15-2012, 06:34 PM
Ben is doing it with a patchwork offensive line. Could you imagine if Ben had Houston's offensive line? I just wish he would throw the incompletion and live another day.

Imagine what he could do with some real playcalling!!

Moondog
01-16-2012, 02:19 AM
Ben has been great for this team, that can practically go without saying, but, I don't see any personal ambition to improve his game. He still can be reckless with the ball,take unnecessary sacks, and get greedy instead of hitting what the defense is giving him. Ben could benefit by being a student of the game, he seems to rely on talent, sandlot football instead. Arians does not hold him accountable so he loves him.
I believe Ben could be so much more if he could humble himself and become teachable.

LatrobePA
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
Slowly but surely Ben is moving down the QB list..

Lots of impressive wins this weekend by subpar QB's...

coldrolled
01-16-2012, 10:37 AM
Slowly but surely Ben is moving down the QB list..

Lots of impressive wins this weekend by subpar QB's...

Arians = Ben's eliteness. Ben keep fighting for Bruce. :duh:

1Steelheart
01-16-2012, 11:23 AM
No way. What Ben needs is a good OC who is a great QB coach. Ben continues to throw off his back foot, hold on the ball way too long, and depend on the big plays way too much. A good QB coach/OC will re-teach him to be even a better QB, but for now we have to accept the fact that Tomlin is content with 50% performance from his offense.

LatrobePA
01-16-2012, 11:29 AM
Arians = Ben's eliteness. Ben keep fighting for Bruce. :duh:

Exactly! Ben wants his freedom but that will come at a price...

NYCsteelersfan
01-17-2012, 01:08 AM
Lots of impressive wins this weekend by subpar QB's...

I've seen quarterbacks who have a great deal of comfortable time in the pocket. You can't have an elite quarterback without an elite offensive line. I despise Arians, but replacing him without dramatically improving the offensive line is pointless.

OldSchool58
01-17-2012, 08:44 AM
Lets fix the O-line problems and get rid of Arians. Give Ben more than a nanosecond to find a target and some plays that actually work and see what happens. With a good O-line and new OC we should be fine. If not, then we'll look at replacing the QB.

JensK
01-17-2012, 09:29 AM
Even if we've seen the best of Ben, that Ben is good enough to win us championships. He has shown that he is plenty capable of putting up huge numbers if the gameplan allows it, and he can win the hard-fought battles as well.

That said, no I don't think we've seen the best of Big Ben yet. Give him a proper o-line, even with BA, and you'll see him compete with the best imo.

steelersbabex25
01-17-2012, 10:11 AM
Lets fix the O-line problems and get rid of Arians. Give Ben more than a nanosecond to find a target and some plays that actually work and see what happens. With a good O-line and new OC we should be fine. If not, then we'll look at replacing the QB.

Yeah let's do that. What a great idea. Magic genie?

LatrobePA
01-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Our offense is so generic it's not funny! Hey 17 go long, hey 86 here comes a bubble screen, here you go 34 run up the gut.

3-5 step drops never do they roll Ben out or have designed check downs to the Rb etc etc...

This offense is STALE and Ben will continue to struggle!!

JensK
01-17-2012, 10:33 AM
Our offense is so generic it's not funny! Hey 17 go long, hey 86 here comes a bubble screen, here you go 34 run up the gut.

3-5 step drops never do they roll Ben out or have designed check downs to the Rb etc etc...

This offense is STALE and Ben will continue to struggle!!

I concur, but that has nothing to do with Big Ben rather than poor playcalling and probably a terrible o-line which does limit the options you have in terms of calling plays. You can come up with the most amazing schemes in the world and it'll do nothing for you if the QB is on his back. My point is, Big Ben will be fine as long as something is done to keep him alive.