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View Full Version : Tomlin defends Clark but not Harrison



BlitzburghRockCity
12-14-2011, 09:43 AM
Something interesting to think about but be careful about reading too much into it.

A few weeks ago when Ryan Clark was flagged and fined by the NFL for a hit on Ed Dixon in the Baltimore game that he made, Mike Tomlin was very vocal in his support of Clark and how the hit should not have been penalized. In practice the following week he continued to voice his support in favor of helping Ryan defend his game and not allowing the league to change the way their defense plays.

Fast forward to Harrison's hit on Colt McCoy last Thursday night. From the moment he was first asked about it he has taken the high road and basically just said that they'll deal with whatever the leage says and move forward, blah blah blah. In this press conference he backed up the league and said it's a fine, James shouldn't have done it, etc.

It's not like Ryan Clark isn't a repeat offender here either. He's been fined many times and flagged many more times for his big hits. Why wasn't he suspended for this last hit? If you're going to do it to Harrison for a repeat offense then why not do it to Clark? If that's the case, would Tomlin back up Ryan Clark as much as he did?

It's another reason to really feel that the NFL just would rather see Harrison be made an example of and ultimately not be in the league at all.

As far as Tomlin goes, I would say Tomlin's lack of support for Harrison probably has something to do with his meeting with the league last month. I'm quite sure it went something like, " these are the rules, we aren't changing them, stop adding fuel to the fire by supporting your players and getting the fans torqued up".

coldrolled
12-14-2011, 09:50 AM
McCoy ran 10 yards across the field... There needs to be a QB pocket rule for this also.

dscola
12-14-2011, 09:52 AM
Or maybe he thinks that Harrison was actually wrong.:thinking:

LatrobePA
12-14-2011, 10:12 AM
Tomlin is pissed, say what you want it was an illegal HTH hit, I don't normally stick up for Tomlin but he has a right to be PO'd...

This is a huge game coming up and the key to beating the niners is pressure, losing your #1 pass rusher could cost them the game...

SteelDad
12-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Tomlin is in no-man's land. Pointing out the differences in his opinions on Clark and Harrison is a good call here Matt. It speaks volumes of the meeting that Tomlin had with Goodell and gives us plenty to draw conclusions from. First and foremost, Tomlin knows Harrison has to adjust the way he plays and he also knows it isn't that easy. Secondly, Goodell has his hands all over the throats of the coaches in regards to this issue. If you think it stops there, it doesn't. Listen to guys like Mike Golic who played during the 80s-90s. Whether or not you like Golic is beside the point. You could tell this morning he just wanted to scream from the rooftops about what is happening to the game, but he couldn't. No doubt in my mind the networks that cover the NFL, especially the NFLN, will not stick up for Harrison other than to use the argument about McCoy's whereabouts in this latest incident. None of them will talk openly about the direction the League is heading.

Raleigh Steel
12-14-2011, 11:33 AM
latrobe, i wrote this the day after the game:


if james would have lead with his shoulder and not the crown of his helmet he would have avoided hitting colt's helmet altogether.

at some point james has got to realize that he just can't tackle a QB like that any more, whether he thinks he's a runner or not. whether he's trying to hit him in the chest or not. i know it's hard to change in a split second but like that, but he's gonna have to make the adjustment or keep finding his wallet lighter, keep putting his team in jeopardy with a 15 yrd penalty or worse...getting suspended.


i'm all for harrison being as physical as he possibly can. i love his game, his intensity, and his nastiness. but now the rules are different...RIGHT OR WRONG...they are different and 92 has to adapt.

and he has to adapt by a mere few inches. he likes to tackle face first. problem is, he has a big head and a big helmet. he's gonna make contact with another helmet more times than not. and if you look at the play again, had he just lowered his shoulder instead of hitting with the center of his body (his head) he could have hit colt in the chest and avoided HtH all together. he still could have blown up colt just the same way. he probably still would have been flagged for excessive tackling or some stupid **** like that, but he wouldn't have cost his team one game in which we really need him.

like it or not, time for the coaching staff to make 92 change his game...just a little. tomlin's comments are step one in this process.

steelersbabex25
12-14-2011, 02:23 PM
i'm all for harrison being as physical as he possibly can. i love his game, his intensity, and his nastiness. but now the rules are different...RIGHT OR WRONG...they are different and 92 has to adapt.

Let me ask you this though..do you think Harrison, while going into that hit, was thinking to himself, "I'm going to launch myself at this guy, lead with my helmet, and try to hit McCoy and the head as hard as I can." I'm gonna say no. Harrison may be somewhat reckless in the way that he plays, but he's no idiot. He knew that there would be consequences if he had another occurance. Like has been said many times, it's a bang bang play, not something that someone can really think about or change. Harrison wasn't deliberately trying to knock someone out, it was just a play that happened. Can you really change and adapt to how bang bang plays happen? I don't think so.

SteelCurtain1974
12-14-2011, 02:35 PM
I will admit, at first, I wasn't very thrilled about this. When I saw the rules that someone posted on a Steelers Group that I am a member of, it stated, quarterback protection is gone once he is on the run and advancing the football. OK! That is where I was like, this is a legal hit. Now, dissecting the video again, OK I get the drift of the league, Tomlin, and Browns fans complaining about the hit. It was indeed helmet to helmet. I can see this from both sides. Number one, McCoy duck and chucked! He ask for it when he didn't slide out of the way. Number two, as much as the Browns are denying it, I know for a fact he was acting like he suffered a concussion. He was on the ground for a moment or two. I don't believe Harrison's appeal is going to hold up, we just got to move on and go with what is said and done. I don't necessarily agree with the verdict, but, Goddell is Goddell and he holds all the power.

Raleigh Steel
12-14-2011, 02:37 PM
babe, it's not about bang-bang plays. it's how he went to tackle mccoy, and how he usually tackles people. he doesn't lower his shoulder. he actually tries to tackle with his chest. he's strong enough to do it.

but the problems are these:
1) he has a large head and helmet, so by tackling straight on the way he does will lead to more HtH hits.
2) like it or not, double standard or not, he's a target and a poster boy for "dirty" play. i don't think his hit was anywhere near dirty...BUT THE LEAGUE DOES! that's the problem. the league has told him what he can and can't do...AND THEY ARE LOOKING FOR HIM NOW.
3) if he goes to tackle with his shoulder, his head will lower farther which will avoid more HtH hits in the future.

we can all bitch about the rules, and double standard, and bang bang plays all we want. and believe me, i feel the same way you do. this wasn't a penalty until week 6 of last year. it's ludicrous. BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS. now 92 HAS TO adjust the way he tackles people. instead of aiming for the chest, aim for the stomach. if he doesn't, guess what, he's gonna get suspended for 2 or 3 games next time. then 6 games...and so on.

we're all concerned about what's right or wrong, but it's the adaptation now that we have to be concerned about...FAIR OR NOT! and believe me....IT'S NOT!

SteelDad
12-14-2011, 02:38 PM
Let me ask you this though..do you think Harrison, while going into that hit, was thinking to himself, "I'm going to launch myself at this guy, lead with my helmet, and try to hit McCoy and the head as hard as I can." I'm gonna say no. Harrison may be somewhat reckless in the way that he plays, but he's no idiot. He knew that there would be consequences if he had another occurance. Like has been said many times, it's a bang bang play, not something that someone can really think about or change. Harrison wasn't deliberately trying to knock someone out, it was just a play that happened. Can you really change and adapt to how bang bang plays happen? I don't think so.

This has been part of my argument all along. Guys in the league now were allowed to skip good form tackling and replace it with big hits in high school and college. Someone wrote a piece yesterday about Jack Ham not tackling the way Harrison does. Well no **** Sherlock! Ham was taught proper technique. To see what he was hitting and to wrap with the arms and lift with the hips and legs. If you think they teach this at the big time colleges you're crazy. It's all about big hits and stripping the ball.

Raleigh Steel
12-14-2011, 02:48 PM
p.s. please don't take my caps lock to mean i'm yelling. it's more for emphasis. sorry if it comes across as yelling...not my intent.

SteelCurtain1974
12-14-2011, 03:02 PM
I sure miss the old commissioner. They wouldn't dare pull the stunts the Goddell is pulling. Don't you all agree that Roger needs to be investigated internally for ethics and business malpractices? This season has an appearance of fixing going on.

jpele
12-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Don't you all agree that Roger needs to be investigated internally for ethics and business malpractices? This season has an appearance of fixing going on.

They did investigate Roger and found him in Robert Kraft's private luxury box every Sunday.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

StillinBaltimore
12-14-2011, 03:40 PM
This has been part of my argument all along. Guys in the league now were allowed to skip good form tackling and replace it with big hits in high school and college. Someone wrote a piece yesterday about Jack Ham not tackling the way Harrison does. Well no **** Sherlock! Ham was taught proper technique. To see what he was hitting and to wrap with the arms and lift with the hips and legs. If you think they teach this at the big time colleges you're crazy. It's all about big hits and stripping the ball.

James harrison KNOWS proper form. He makes delicious form tackles every game. He was dropping the hammer on mccoy and did it a little too high. CLARK makes bad tackles all the time. Harrison doesn't have to dive at people to make the tackle like small dbs do against huge running backs and tight end. He did it on that play cause he had a good opportunity to stick mccoy (until he threw it at the very last second). Someone please tell me that harrison doesn't make solid tackles when he is one on one with someone in the open field who can make a cut or something!!! Again, don't get "having a good opportunity to stick someone" and making a tackle mixed up.

--- Added 12/14/2011 at 02:40 PM ---


They did investigate Roger and found him in Robert Kraft's private luxury box every Sunday.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They also found that they have arranged marriages planed for their kids to maintain the power in the Empire! lol

chisteeler
12-14-2011, 03:59 PM
James harrison KNOWS proper form. He makes delicious form tackles every game. He was dropping the hammer on mccoy and did it a little too high. CLARK makes bad tackles all the time. Harrison doesn't have to dive at people to make the tackle like small dbs do against huge running backs and tight end. He did it on that play cause he had a good opportunity to stick mccoy (until he threw it at the very last second). Someone please tell me that harrison doesn't make solid tackles when he is one on one with someone in the open field who can make a cut or something!!! Again, don't get "having a good opportunity to stick someone" and making a tackle mixed up.

--- Added 12/14/2011 at 02:40 PM ---



They also found that they have arranged marriages planed for their kids to maintain the power in the Empire! lol

I didn't know their sons were engaged to each other...(had to...lol):lol:

steelersbabex25
12-14-2011, 04:33 PM
babe, it's not about bang-bang plays. it's how he went to tackle mccoy, and how he usually tackles people. he doesn't lower his shoulder. he actually tries to tackle with his chest. he's strong enough to do it.

Really? I think it's all about bang bang plays. This point has been beat to death, but how can you really change something that happens in 1/100th of a second? Like I said, I doubt Harrison goes into any play thinking to himself, "hey, I think I'll risk losing $70,000 in order to knock this guy out." My point being, this description of these hits as being "malicious" as the reason for suspending someone is killing my soul. Here are some examples of what I consider to be malicious..

this:
ZXDmCVSnn1U

and this:
W5nlEA8BUTQ

are milicious. A player CLEARLY trying to hurt someone else...pretty much the definition of the word. Someone trying to make a football play and just so happens to have "bad form" is not malicious. The fact that Suh, who was obviously trying to harm another player, was considered to get the same suspension as Harrison, someone who's play happened between the whistles, is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I feel like I've gone off in a million directions in this post, but let me say this. There are millions of hits like this (well, worse than this) in hockey. Most of the players will just get a penalty, if the situation is really bad, some will get suspended for a game or two. Why do you think the NFL feels the need to draw so much attention to these "malicious" hits and fine players for every cent their worth. Don't let Goodell fool you into thinking they actually care about player safety. It's 100%, no doubt about it, about making money.

Goodfrom55
12-14-2011, 05:10 PM
For God's sake, all he has to do is lead with his shoulder. Ok, he is blind side sacking the QB; why can't he use his right arm to hammer the ball out and implant his shoulder right into the lower back of the QB? Obviously I like Harrison, but he is stubborn as a goat.

Raleigh Steel
12-14-2011, 08:02 PM
babe, i think you and i are arguing 2 different points, or at least you aren't seeing my point because it isn't translating well in print.

nobody is saying harrison went in with the intent to get fined. that's not the point. the point is, is how he tackled mccoy. he did the same thing last year on the bill QB. he's been fined time and again for the way he tackles...a lot of them have been complete bull ****, but not to the league.

but the league has said ENOUGH with the fines...he's not getting the message...now we are suspending him. i don't think he should have been suspended. i find it bull **** that he is suspended for a questionably illegal hit, but not a dirty hit.

the point i'm trying to make is that if he tackles differently than how he does, or did last thursday we wouldn't be having this conversation. it's not about the bang bang play because it's how he tackles all the time in this type of situation. if he lowers his shoulder, his head goes down and there is no HtH hit. this is what he has to do moving forward...if he doesn't a 1 game suspension will be nothing. it doesn't take much to aim a little lower with your shoulder. it should have never come to this.

Goodfrom55
12-14-2011, 08:12 PM
They did investigate Roger and found him in Robert Kraft's private luxury box every Sunday.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, on his knees.

steelersbabex25
12-14-2011, 08:14 PM
\nobody is saying harrison went in with the intent to get fined. that's not the point. the point is, is how he tackled mccoy. he did the same thing last year on the bill QB. he's been fined time and again for the way he tackles...a lot of them have been complete bull ****, but not to the league.

And MY point is that you can't really help something that you don't do on purpose.

Goodfrom55
12-14-2011, 08:15 PM
he did the same thing last year on the bill QB. .

Harrison't hit on Fitzpatrick last year was clean, but he drove him into the ground which I have no problem with. After this is football - a collision sport. And it was bang - bang. Refs are just flag sensitive with him because of his physicality.

Raleigh Steel
12-14-2011, 08:26 PM
Harrison't hit on Fitzpatrick last year was clean, but he drove him into the ground which I have no problem with. After this is football - a collision sport. And it was bang - bang. Refs are just flag sensitive with him because of his physicality.

pretty sure they got him for HtH on that hit. i remember arguing it with someone last season.




And MY point is that you can't really help something that you don't do on purpose.

so he hit him accidentally? that's what you're going with? how about if he lowers his shoulder it doesn't happen at all?

steelersbabex25
12-14-2011, 08:41 PM
so he hit him accidentally? that's what you're going with? how about if he lowers his shoulder it doesn't happen at all?

Obviously he didn't hit him accidentally. He hit his helmet accidentally. Watch the hit again. Harrison doesn't launch at McCoy or lead with his helmet. He goes to make the tackle and because they happen to be around the same height, their helmets collide. Whoops...accident.

The NFL going to defensive players and saying hey, you have to make a tackle making sure your helmet doesn't graze anyone elses helmet is like going to a baseball player and saying you have to find a way to hit the ball without actually making any contact with it. It's football. As long as the league still allows any tackling at all, helmet to helmet hits are going to happen no matter how much the NFL and Sir Roger Goodell frown upon it.

Wow..the NFL is doing an excellent job of brain washing people into thinking what they want everyone to believe.

LevonKirkland99
12-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Harrison didn't have the intention to lead with his helmet, and he way lowering hid head.helmet as he tackled McCoy. I think what people are arguing is that he has enough time, prior to the tackle, to wrap McCoy or tackle him at shoulder level?

We have to move on though as arguing isn't gonna change one thing about next week. We still have to go play without #92, so it is what it is. It will be interesting how Harrison will respond to this when he comes back from the suspension.

Viper1963
12-14-2011, 11:26 PM
Hi Folks,

First of all, been quite some time since I have visited this board, but I always know that I can relate to my fellow Stiller fans!

I have been a Steeler Fan since I was 9 years old, growing up in Ohio of all places, after the immaculate reception, and have followed them even when I was in Japan during our "bad years" during Chuck's last years.

Cutting to the chase, I have always wondered why Mike Tomlin was named coach of the Steelers, bypassin Whiz and Grimm from what I believed to be on "outsider".

Many things have gone through my mind, was it Ben? Was is the "Rooney Rule"? Hell, I do not know.

One thing I do know, is that Mike Tomlin, although winning a Super Bowl in his second year ( arguably due to Kevin Colbert's draft expertise,, remember Donahue? ), continues to umimpress me as a football coach.

Other than his typical " the standard is the standard' and other cliche's that don't mean **** when it comes to winning football games, he continues to under achieve when it comes to game time adjustments, clock managment, replay reviews, etc.

Now, we find out why he is coaching the Steelers; he is the embodiment of the NFL's long-standing position of "we take care of our own", meaning that he is an NFL "yes man".

He should have stood behind James Harrison, and the position that he took can not be overlooked with his comments regarding James suspension. I am very disappointed, but not surprised at his take on this.

I know that I am about to create a treasinous comment here, but I think after 40 plus years I deserve it: the benevolency shown by the Rooneys are not in line with how they have treated their players over the years- Iron Mike, destitute, his family being sued by teh NFL for his family's law suite so they could collect upon his insurance policy, not signing Franco on his record breaking year, and I could go on and on.

Mike Tomlin embodies the contrast within the Rooney family, and how they really stand behind their players. I sometimes forget that this is a business, because I have always love the guys in Black. Always have, always will, and my adult kids are the same.

I appreciate everyone reading my rant, and I expect that I am going to get some **** for this, but hey, that is what blogging is all about.

Bottom line: I think that Mike Tomlin, when he wakes up this morning should remember where he came from, and support the players that have gotten him to where he is RIGHT NOW.

My personal opinion is that Mike is all bravado and no talk. Hell, we should be winning with this team, and he is damn lucky to have a team such as this, and needs to recognize this. I guess the good news is that unlike Bill Shottencowher, he wins playoff games at home!

Everyone, thanks for listening, and Merry Christmas! Go Steelers, I love our team very much!

Steve Wine

mwittman5
12-14-2011, 11:33 PM
I was surprised he didn't stand behind James myself. He sided with Clark.

Viper1963
12-14-2011, 11:45 PM
Bottom Line:

Tomlin is a "yes man". He damn-well knows if he doesn't toe the NFL line, he's screwed.

He is a fortunate man, and if one thing he does get, is that fact.